 Thanks everyone for coming to our talk. I hope you know what it's about. We just found out now that we finished the slides. So we're gonna be talking about our work with the tag app delivery. So maybe put up the next slides and we can just introduce ourselves really quickly. My name is Lian, I'm a tech lead with the tag. Thomas? Oh yeah, you have just a mic. I need a microphone. My name is Thomas, I'm a co-chair of the tag app delivery. Right, I think right before we get started, just really quickly, like we're trying, like this is supposed to be something fun and more conversational, so we will probably be sitting down soon because it's been already quite a long week. But yeah, we're just, it's not gonna be super technical, it's not gonna be super serious, it's gonna be a lot of memes and a lot of just talking about things and if you have any questions, you can raise your hand and we will probably just be taking questions during the talk because again, it's not gonna be, you're probably not gonna learn a whole lot about Kubernetes in this one. So yeah. And I think you have a stand-up comedy session today, right? Yes, I have a stand-up comedy session today later in Paris, so if you like my jokes, you can come by later. Just talk to me later after this. And if you don't like my jokes, it's absolutely no problem, I won't be there. So, let's start with a very simple exercise. So some of you might know I'm a teacher also and sometimes I do some quizzes and so on. And therefore, let's start with a simple thing. And then I'll just also say that everyone who just picked up their phone and never asked what the QR code is for, you talked about it with your compliance officers and the security people. Because, you know. You are all owned. Okay, so I hope every one of you, yes, scan the code. So let's start, oh, sorry. Yes, the first thing, have you heard about tech app delivery? You were reading about it in the session description. Excellent. That's a good start, so you know everything you, can simply leave. I mean, you did the work, so I'm really proud of you. Okay, so I think this was what we expected, right? Like three quarters. Actually, this is more than I thought. Yeah, which is good, because that means you have the right audience for us to give this talk. Otherwise, we'd just talk to ourselves. It's been a big sense for us to be here. Absolutely. Thanks for coming anyway, so. Okay, and the next question is a more sophisticated one, so even if you don't know what the tech does, what do you think it does? I think memes. Okay, the talk is over. The question has been answered, we can go. App delivery. That's good, yes. It's very different vibes on this slide. There's dance, for some reason. Okay, I need someone to explain to me what dance. Why dance? I think this could be a topic for the next, yes. Maintain a track talk, right? What's siya, siya, siya, chiya, chiya, siya. Oh, the dance, oh, we're giving the wrong talk here. Okay, cool, but there's a lot of, obviously, app delivery, delivering apps, rapid app dev, totally accurate grouping. Okay, that's good. Push and pray, naming stuff. Software delivery, chaos delivery, security, or not, as we just learned. Tag stuff. Saufen, okay, there's some German, so yeah. Okay, so sounds pretty nice. Pretty accurate. Okay, so yes, and now I'm curious, so yes, I think I'm sharing this tag for five months, but I was always afraid to ask, what does our tag? What is a tag? I don't, you're asking the wrong person, really. So I mean, I think it really depends on the tag itself. Also, a lot of it is kind of like what the people who are in the tag are good at. With our tag, basically, we bring together the projects, so the CNCF projects, users, and vendors to talk about things, mainly standards, best practices, anything that people would be interested in. I think we have a slide for that. Yes, so instead of you being in your own room and just figuring out everything by yourself, you could join our community and you can find like-minded people to work on things. And we have a couple of working groups who work on very specific topics, like for example, Artifacts, we had the GitOps working group who just recently moved out to merge with OpenGitOps. We had an operator working group and we have the Platforms working group. I think you can go to the next slide for that. Okay, yes, so and is it always clear what we are about? Does it seem like we're clear on what we're doing? Does it seem like we're very competent? This is also voluntary, right? We're not getting paid for this, which explains why we're so well-prepared. But the scope of a tag can, usually it's set by the charter, so every tag has its own charter. It will explain what we do and what we focus on. For us, it is anything related to app delivery, so that includes building, delivering, obviously, but also deploying, but also security as it relates to the software supply chain, for example, is there anything really that has to do with getting code from your computer to not somewhere, someone else's computer possibly? So it's also about lorries. It can be if you want to, if you wish for it. Okay, so now I'm a bit more wise. Yeah, so we wanted to show you a little bit about what we were talking about in the last 12 months. So you know about the structure of it. We have meetings, that's too early. We have meetings every two weeks, like general meetings, and we talk about projects will come to us and present themselves, or we talk about very general topics. Then we have the working groups, which also meet separately from the tag. And yeah, we just wanted to tell you what are the topics that we've been discussing in the last 12 months. Now you can go. Yes, and we have our platform working group, and this is very, very, very, very active. And yes, as you see here, they are always trying to evaluate what platform engineers are doing and so on. But I was curious, I heard about evaluations, I saw something at the booth today, and can someone of you tell me what this was all about? Where the hell is Colin? Ah, here he is. Oh look, it is the platform's working group chair, Colin. Everyone please give Colin like the biggest applause. This newly, just before Pupcon, we made him chair. Yeah, so this is like, what is it? Yeah, my first thing, yeah, punish me. Oh, it's Abby, the other platform's working group chair. Ah, thanks so much for coming. She's better. But she doesn't have a voice, so in this case you have to take over. So repeat the question. I don't know, Thomas, what are you saying? Oh, can you tell us what it's all about? So the platform working group is all about what tool systems processes, people needs, all the expansive things, and how we bring those together to help app dev actually do their jobs effectively. Recently, any cool things you recently have worked on that you wanna share? We've got the platform maturity model, which continues to improve. We have a platform's white paper, which is awesome, but we have tons of artifacts, and the coolest part about the group in general is that we get people from all levels of delivery, including AI focused people, we have API focused people, we have developers, we have operators, we have product owners, all kinds of people that come in and collaborate. I think the most exciting thing is the meetings, so please come to the meetings. We do kind of morning coffee ops things. There's one tomorrow at Le Ballon. I don't know how to say that. I hope I said that correct down the street. But we've got all kinds of fun things that we're working on there. Is the breakfast free for everyone? Like, everyone is allowed to get in? Yeah. Okay, and it's 7 a.m. or something? 7.15. 7.15. That's why it's free for everyone, because no one's gonna show up. Okay, but I see you're doing great work there. It looks really fun. Both, either, yeah, just like. At least the entrance, so. Yes, well, I guess food is until it's gone. So, yeah, you better be early. So, what if you want to join the platform working group? I think they are really the most active working group. They're the most popular ones, for sure. And we always head in the tech at the delivery itself. They are pretty funny kinds of people, so I think you came from the platform's working group? Yes, me too. I was helping with the white paper. And after some time, you can also join us making jokes here, right? This is your chance to be on stage. Yes. Yes, but the platform working groups are also dealing with challenges. What does this mean about? It's a video, and the challenge is to get it to play, apparently. Oh, yeah. I remember, this was about multi-tenancy being a big issue, actually, that a lot of the platform tools that, actually, this is about the other platform tools that we were looking at. And multi-tenancy was a big issue that a lot of them were trying to tackle. Next slide, please. Oh, we can watch it again. The other thing is security. We had a lot of projects that were introducing some interesting solutions around governance and compliance and security, which is interesting because you would think that app delivery is very specific, and that's kind of what this talk is about. If you think about app delivery, you probably think about CI CD first, but there's so much more that goes into it that also touches on other tags, like security or runtime. And sometimes you were asking, because your question was like, what's the scope? Sometimes you were like, why are you here? Why are you not at runtime? But it just, there's such a big overlap, so it makes sense that they would also come to us. Okay, so yes, during all of this time, we are also talking about a lot of projects. So when projects want to join the sandbox, also want to incubate or want to graduate, they come to us and present in our tag meetings. Usually they ask for feedback from the community, but also the TOC will ask for our feedback and recommendation on the maturity of the projects, especially when they're not supposed to go to graduation, they want to know like, does it hold up or not? But this is also just a selection, like there were a lot more projects that came to us. And sometimes there is no logo, so I found none, therefore, they are not there. Yeah, so if you are working on an open source project that is, is a CNCF project, or you have submitted to Sandbox, you're welcome to present it in our meeting, collect some feedback. Maybe if people are super interested, you can even create a working group around it. Yeah, it's community work, so you just have to do it and then hope that you create enough momentum and people want to join you. Yes, so yes, we are already talking more about the maturity model. I think Colin already told us about this, right? Sorry? Colin, you already told us about the maturity model. Okay, perfect. This was unplanned. So in the last 12 months at the tag, we had lots of topics and hopefully lots of time. We re... So we created our website, right? Yeah, we had a website, I streamlined it a little bit, so it would be easier for people to actually contribute to the website. That was a bit of a pain. There are a lot of the work that I did, especially at the beginning when I joined as a tag lead, was to streamline it for people to work with us, to contribute with us, because a lot of times people hear about the tag and this was the same for me when I started. I knew one of the tag leads and I was like, I would be really interested to start working with you, but I don't know how. And what he said was, well, join the Slack channel. And that was it. And then I never spoke to him again for like three months. So it was actually quite difficult. And then I just picked stuff up that I found like, oh, you know, like if we improve the website, it could be easier for people to find a place where they can contribute. And that's how I got started. And then you saw that I've been quite active also in the platform for a group, but also doing other things. So you asked like, hey, do you wanna become a tag lead? But that doesn't scale, obviously. We can't just like walking around and just ask every single person at KubeCon like, hey, do you wanna work with us? So yeah, we try and push out information and make it easier for people to join us. But you get this blindness after some time. Like you're just very used to what you see. And obviously the things you know, you know, you don't know what other people know, you know? So it is very, very helpful for us also if you can give us feedback on like, I really wanted to help, but I just didn't know how because I was missing this kind of information. Like, yeah, everything is really helpful here. Yeah, so we also talked about lots of working groups. So we established an artifact working group, I think, but there's nobody here from the artifact working group, right? No, okay. So they're also talking about getting things into OCI registries and so on. And so they are in the intersection between CNCF and OCI, to be honest. We also had the discussions about the second version of an operator-wide paper. So if someone would like to participate in such a topic, I would all still be interested, but it lacks kind of traction. That's where you got started, right? You started with OCI. Yes, so for me, I started writing the operator-wide paper, I think it was four years ago. And this was my first step into the tech. Yes, we also partnered shortly with the CDF regarding CDF events and how to get them in application delivery. Yes, and the things we also already discussed for the platform second group. Wait, can you hold this slide for a second? Well, I just wanna point out the language support part because that was really amazing that just the, after we got streamlined the website a bit and Abby did a lot of work to get people to contribute blog posts, and I think you could really see that there was some motion and then people started to suggest language support. So we have like, I think we have a Chinese version now, there's a Korean version, a Brazilian version, Japanese, Italian, French, and those. So if you speak any other language and you wanna translate a website, again, you're welcome. We try to make it as easy as possible. We do ask that at least one other person who speaks the language will review it because obviously we don't all speak those languages and we wanna make sure that things are fairly accurate and there's no whatever weirdness on it. But I'm really happy that that just happened. We didn't have to suggest it or push it ourselves. It was just out of the need of it that community members just stepped up and did it. For me, this was a hard time reviewing pull requests because I didn't understand them. I didn't see you review any pull requests in that time, to be honest. That's right. Yeah. So another question we are dealing with all of the time. Many of us have CI, we have GitOps, and yes, we have such things as infrastructure as code. So I think we have all we need for app delivery, right? No, I don't think so. So sometimes we forget something. And yes, that's what we are all excited about all of the time. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the point of the whole thing is what's our scope? What are things that are very obvious with app delivery and what are things that are not super obvious with app delivery? And since we have been talking about the Titanic thing, I'm getting it now. Right on the stage, I'm getting now the reference of Titanic because the whole point is that we wanted to talk about the iceberg. Yes, this was the iceberg. Yeah, I just got it. I just got it. It was very good. So you know the idea of the iceberg is that there's stuff on top that you can see and there's a lot more down below the water line that you can't. And while we were working on stuff and we were discussing the scope of the tag, we realized there's so many things that just you wouldn't think are app delivery. And I felt like that is very important for people to know. So they stopped bothering us and like go somewhere else. But we tried to kind of like for fun and also to give a talk at KubeCon, develop this like iceberg model where we could see what are the things that you wouldn't think is app delivery but it kind of is. And I mean, I don't know, were you planning on reading all of this or should we just put it there and let people read it? No, I only copied your stuff. Okay, good. I already read it. Notice how only the topics we had this year in all of these topic areas. So we identified some kind of sections we have at the moment. So such as artifacts, then CI and delivery which is more or less the main part of the get delivery to be honest. Then we have platforms which came in the last few years and we have such things as infrastructure provision. So just a quick question. Have you been conducting platform interviews so far? Do you work in group? Sorry. Please yell, Abby. That's quite helpful in my voice. We are still collecting a lot more names of people who want to participate. There's a QR code in the tag booth but there have been a handful of interviews and it's really proving out that the frameworks looks like it's providing a lot of value already which is awesome. Yeah, this is great. One of the things that also worked very intensely on obviously was like our presence here at KubeCon what we're gonna do, how we're gonna use our time because we get half a booth for the three days. So half of the day we get one booth, not half a booth. So one of the things that the platform's working group has been doing is conducting interviews with people or preparing to conduct interviews about the usefulness of the maturity model. And we also have a bunch of lighting talks there. I guess I think we have a slide for this later. Yes, and as we said before there are many things which are under the water. Waterline, yeah. Waterline. We don't see when we are doing application delivery. They might be also important but at the beginning we never thought of them, right? Yeah, they deliver app development. Such as app development or such things as runtime reliability. So when we are talking about operating systems and so on, I think sometimes it might make sense to make them reliable. Also about such governance thing and so on. Yeah, sometimes it's also just a question of who can take the topic on. Like if something's between us and runtime, for example, it's like, well, who has the space to manage a working group right now? So it's not always like a logical decision that sometimes it's like kind of political or operational. Yes. Yes, and so we are asking ourselves is app delivery eating the world? So it seems like we are- It seems like we are- We're doing everything now. Yes, the answer is yes. We are getting a big blue monster, yes. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we notice is that app development and app delivery are definitely moving closer together. There's all this, you know, the whole idea of DevOps bringing basically removing the wall of confusion or the wall of isolation. Bringing them closer together, making app developers care about how things are delivered and how things are running and operating. That has shifted kind of like what app delivery actually means. At least for some people, it is. Not you. We are, yes. We are also overlapping with many other topics such as architecture governance and reliability. As I said before, so. Yes, and at some point in time we saw some, we got some requests regarding working groups, regarding some projects and so on. And yes, I'm sweating still and. This is a long discussion. We had that discussion for like almost a year. I think a long time, it felt like a year. Whether app development is actually part of app delivery or not, which I mean, can I just get a show of, who thinks app development is part of app delivery? Okay, I'm not gonna say the next thing that I was gonna say. Okay. That's surprising to me. I'm sorry for those people who raised their hands. But I'm proud to announce that today we discussed and decided to build a working group for app development. The funny thing about this tag is, at the moment we don't have a charter. So we are trying to get the working group out of established by the practitioners and by the people who need the things and who knows what they are doing because initially app delivery was not established for developers. So it's better to let developers decide what they need and deciding on what they want to work for. Just quickly, can you show me your hand again when the people who thought app development is part of app delivery? Okay, so you all are also volunteering for this, right? Yes, excellent. Okay, then. Can you see this? Can the code? Yes, sorry, that was a question. The correct answer, I mean, I don't think we have a correct answer. Trust me, yes. It is very philosophical at this point. I mean, when we first discussed it, the TOC first saw it with us. They said all the tags, obviously, again, it was more of an operational and practical decision, which was that we don't wanna establish a new tag just for app development. This is part of, it's closest to what app delivery does. But then after a lot of discussions, now they're saying, well, actually, it seems like there will be much more interest and we just really can't fit it into our charter. It doesn't really align with our scope no matter how you cut it. Yes. So I hope we solved this problem in some months. But the next question, I would have now is, do you see any areas, except the ones we had on the ISPEC model or on the ISPEC model, we should focus on. And this would be the next question on our slide or session here. You are allowed to scan this QR code now. This is a safe QR code to scan. Sure. Only one way to find out. Yeah, we would definitely be interested, like what topics you are interested in. We definitely want to make the tag work for the community and especially for people who are not in the community yet because we always want more people to join and want diverse opinions and perspectives. So. Looks good. So it seems like we should focus on app delivery. Back to the roots, right? It does make sense. It does somehow make sense. And there's, there's nothing for APIs or we have to scroll down. That's 10% for APIs. Yeah, so it's definitely interesting for us to get an idea of what we should, what we could do next. I think it's interesting because the topics that we have are usually just dictated or not dictated, but it's by the projects who come to us who want to introduce themselves. And it's not often that community members suggest a topic of discussion. So this is interesting for us to see that what the actual interest of you all are in this room. And I think I have one last question. Yes, that was a question. I saw that you've published some results of questions like this and it would be kind of interesting to know what types of people they are that are asking for this. Like if there's 80% wanting this or that, then it's kind of really interesting to know what are they doing in their work because otherwise the whole, it's very, very biased. Yes, that's a good point. Go ahead. So yes, I also tried to find what topics we should deal with in the tech. I think three pieces of the KubeCon Talks beer, more memes. More memes, yeah, I'm done with that. I think we need more fun. Okay. Um. Good, with this I think this. Yeah, so if you wanna talk more to us so we have a booth as I said, it's not now because it's afternoon now but tomorrow we have the booth for two and a half more hours I think from 10 to 12 30 or something like that. So you can scan the QR code and find out a bit more about our plans here. Yeah, please join our Black Channel for sure. Join the Slack Channel of the working groups that you're interested in. If you want to, you can join the meetings as well. We're always really happy when more people join and again, we would really like some more diverse opinions especially people who maybe are not that involved with tech like with app delivery yet but would like to learn more and just wanna give kind of a little bit of feedback what they find is missing. And yes, another thing. So it always seems to be non-technical what we're doing. Sometimes there are technical things but we are always happy to see new faces in our meetings and new people joining the working group or working groups or the tech itself. As you see, sometimes it can be fun, the topics. So I liked working on the operator while people I learned a lot throughout this time. And I think this is a pretty cool possibility to learn new things even if you are not really really into a topic. So- And it's not that hard to become a tech lead or a chair at the moment because we really like need a lot of people to help out. So- Yes, you see I'm there. Yeah, exactly. You didn't do anything up until two minutes ago. So it wasn't that hard. But yeah, if you wanna get involved with the CNCF a little bit, but you don't wanna commit too much like this is a good way to just like see is there anything I can help with even if it's just like fixing a spelling error on the website, like anything really helps. Do we have one more slide? I think so. But last but not least, if you are interested in the app development working group, feel free to join them. It's your chance to get into the work of CNCF. It's even easier to become a chair there because they don't have to have a charter at the moment. We have lots of people now. So- Oh really? Yes, so- That happened in the last two hours. I think before I saw 55 people here in the room. So it will get hard to get a chair there. So last but not least, what we wanted to ask was- Sorry, who wrote Brutermus los? Sorry? Someone wrote Brutermus los. Yeah. The last thing I wanted to ask is how likely it is that you would like to join the tech. So please close the door. And yes, if you are on the right side of the diagram or diagram, that would be- Bar chart. Bar chart is. Then I think the next meeting is in Wednesday. Wednesday in two weeks, because we just had a meeting this week. There should be, yeah. At least 50 people is. Yeah. And your friends and your grandparents. Yes. And if you're on this side of the slide, I would like to know why you're not as interested. I'm not gonna be offended and I promise I'm not gonna hurt you, but I would just really like to know. I would really like to know after this amazing talk. Yeah. Okay. And with this, I think this was our last slide. I don't know. Yes, you know. Seems so. Good. So with this, thank you for listening to all of the funny stuff we are talking about. Thanks. Thanks for staying. Thank you.