 On Saturday the 12th of September, nearly 100,000 people marched through the streets of London on the Refugee's Welcome Demonstration. Similar actions have been seen across Europe, as workers and youth show their instinctive solidarity and internationalism for refugees fleeing war and poverty, as well as their anger towards the establishment that is doing nothing to help. We spoke to Hamid Alizadeh, who analyses the imperialist causes behind the refugee crisis, and explains the socialist way forward. I'll say that if you look at the way that the bourgeois are representing it, it's as if the establishment of Europe is presenting it. It's as if there's millions of people who just suddenly feel like they want to come up and take whatever luxuries we have built with our own hands and so on here in Europe. They want to come up and take our good life and a threat to our European democracy, whatever. That's kind of the type of idea that the establishment is putting forward today. But if you look at the real situation, who's caused the situation which is causing this refugee crisis? Is it something self-made, or has it been put in from outside? In Iraq alone, where a lot of these refugees are coming from, millions of people have been displaced. Why? Was it because of the inherent flaws of the Iraqi society? Not at all. It's been because of a brutal occupation, an invasion of a country, for absolutely no reason, and then the whipping up of a sectarian war there in order to to dominate the country. I mean, more than 1.3 million people have been killed by the Iraq war alone, and 3 million people have been displaced. That's just official figures. That's just what we can actually count as people who are actual official refugees. But the other thing is that the whole life, the whole of civilized life in these countries have been shaken to the grounds that for many people, for the vast majority probably, it doesn't really exist anymore. And then you go have Syria where most of the refugees are from. And what happened there? Well, there was a revolution. There was a revolution initially in 2011 against the Assad dictatorship. But what happened to that revolution? It was diverted into a sectarian struggle by what? By billions and billions and billions of funds thrown in to the country by the close allies of the West, the Gulf states, Turkey, and so on, but also by the West, by the CIA, by the MI6. Actually, the Syrian operation is the biggest part of the CIA's budget. This is an actual war taking place on behalf of the West. And who are receiving all this money? Where is this so-called moderate opposition that they're talking about? All of these people are Islamists of the worst kinds. Today, they talk about Jabhad al-Nusra al-Ahra al-Sham, these al-Qaeda-linked organizations, as if they were moderate, democratic, legitimate organizations. And these people have been unleashed in these countries, murdering hundreds of thousands of people, destroying every grain of civilization there is. And in fact, inside Syria, there are more refugees than outside of Syria. I think outside of Syria, there's something like four million. But inside Syria, there's between seven and nine million refugees caused by this war, and especially by these Islamists. Who have been supported by the West? Who were we going to bomb? Who were, when I say we, who was Britain going to bomb? Only a few years ago. They were going to bomb Assad in whose benefit? To whose benefit? It was to the benefit of the Islamists. And this policy still continues. Turkey, which is a close ally of the West, is directly supporting all the most rabid Islamist organizations, including the IS. And the same from the Gulf states, there's a flow of money coming in there. That's what's causing this, a lot of, a big part of this crisis. And the European establishment is, you know, it's just revealing its callousness and its absolute cold blood is an undemocratic nature by refusing to do anything with the refugees, by basically shutting out all the hundreds of thousands of people who have been, who've had their lives destroyed by this thing. Another element is the question of Afghanistan. There's also hundreds of thousands of people coming from Afghanistan. I read yesterday, or the other day I read about this 15-year-old kid who walked all across Iran and Turkey in order to get to the EU because life was unbearable for him. What about all those old and young, you know, newborns and children who can't do that, who cannot afford that? And in Libya, I mean, actually Qaddafi told the West when they were overthrowing him that he was actually holding back a lot of these, a lot of the refugees coming from Africa. But it's not only that he's no longer there to be kind of the henchmen of the West, but now there's also millions of refugees or, you know, displaced people and people living in extreme poverty and misery inside Libya who desperately trying to find them. We have to ask ourselves this. You know, it's been portrayed as if, oh, you know, these spoiled refugees are going to come to Europe just because we have a better life. But why would people just live their lives? I mean, even when people live in the deepest poverty, they don't like to leave their lives. The families, the friends, the society, they know the rules, they know everything that they've built up maybe for generations. Why would they do that? And not only do they do that, but risk it all by going in an extremely dangerous boat ride, for instance, that a lot of people don't make it safe through. Why would people risk do that if it wasn't for the absolute, for absolute desperation that they live in? That's the question that we have to ask ourselves. This has really brought out the inherent tensions within the EU and it's reflecting and it's emphasizing the crisis of capitalism because you see, there's one million people, let's say around one million people at the moment who are trying to get into Europe. That's the figures that we talk about. It's not that big an amount. Out of a continent which has 500 million people in it. One million is not much, but it just reveals the extreme tensions which they're underlying amongst the capitalist and within the capitalist system itself. Because there are two trends of course. There's one trend which is the industrial capitalist who don't really mind this because this helps them undermine the wages of the European workers. Especially from Syria, they get very highly skilled labor for very cheap prices or free. That's basically because these people are desperate so they will take on any job. That's kind of what they're banking on. Then there's the other question which is that the budget deficits and the crisis of capitalism each and every single one of these countries is at such a high level that taking in these people will upset that very fragile balance that some of these economies have been built on. Of course it wouldn't change the fact that the capitalists are sucking out 10 times the amount of money in direct, what do you call it, subsidies and all kinds of other schemes and whatnot. What are you going to pay for housing these refugees? It's going to be nothing compared to what the big business is funneling out of state coffers as you speak. But nevertheless, this is having an upsetting effect inside these economies and that's revealing the tension in between because the Italians are saying why should we take all of this? We have one of the biggest state debts in the world. I think they are more than two trillion dollars and the Greeks are saying well you know where was Europe when we were collapsing. Now our economy is in this shape and you're giving us all these people to take care of. That's why also the Germans had to take on some people as the strongest economy because it was actually risking the whole system of the European Union and that's why they kind of had to step in. But it's not over yet I would say and this is a crisis that has well you can say this has accelerated the ongoing deterioration of the EU and to a certain extent that for instance the Danish government closed the borders which is against the law and the rules and regulations which they have agreed upon in this Schengen cooperation that you're not allowed to have border patrols with and they closed the borders. And this is also a part of the whole you know the instability of the of the bourgeois system itself in Europe in that they need this kind of rabid right-wing populism to prop up the states basically because the old traditional parties even the old tradition bourgeois parties don't have that kind of a base. And it's clear that these right-wing parties for instance the Danish People's Party the Fondationale, UKIP and all these they have been trying to bank on this you know by saying oh the immigrants are coming as if it's like an army of zombies or you know something really really scary. Yeah but what they're really trying to do is that they're trying to divide the working class look these big bourgeois they have the hands deep into the pockets of every everyone of the state of the working people everyone they're sucking out so much money but yet these people want to tell us that no the biggest problems the reasons for unemployment the reasons for cuts the reasons for austerity is because of refugees and immigrants who make up an insignificantly small amount of the european population you know economically speaking. Yeah so they're trying to bank on the misery of these people and on this terrible terrible situation by by whipping up fears that everything is going to go down now because of the because of the immigrants who are coming. But I would say that and also they want to they're pointing fingers they're saying to the workers that this is the reason why you're losing your jobs this is the reason why you're using your benefits this is the reason why everything is basically going on there because of this tiny tiny group whereas in fact the biggest problem is is the capitalist but I would also say that that we've seen now for years there's been an accumulation of frustration with this policy but the problem is that no one has ever been like actually none of the the established parties especially the working class parties who are supposed to do this have not spoken out against this outrage this is completely absolute nonsense it's so illogical the way that that these people are speaking you don't even have to criticize them you know as in being having critical time you just lay out the actual figures who who is taking money out of the pockets of who and it's clear that the bourgeoisie is doing this but the working parties the unions and so on have done nothing in this regards and in fact many of them have gone along with this rabid nationalist racist mood and rhetoric and therefore there's been an tension there's been an unease and deep frustration amongst large layers of the population which instinctively this working class people instinctively feel that the need for unity to to come out and help but they haven't had an outlet for this and this I think has triggered an outburst of these kind of emotions which is also a part of the general crisis of the european establishment you know basically the european you know we've seen anti-establishment move developing everywhere and now this holds the question of racism very correctly you know it shows actually the high level of political consciousness amongst the youth and the workers that the question of racism is being tied up to the establishment that's the policy of the establishment a lot of people are understanding this and are reacting to and we've seen these these demonstrations um in Denmark just from what I know six people six or seven young people just called for a demonstration of 50 000 people came out in London 100 000 people came out in Sweden and several thousands several towns cities hundreds of thousands of people have come out in Austria 30 or 40 000 people have come up people have been uh you know thousands of people have been going to the borders going to Germany driving to drive these refugees through uh through throughout europe to different places in europe to help them people have been gathering food parcels and clothes I think in fact in some areas there's been too much so they haven't had you know they've had more clothes and donations coming in than than people who were actually refugees would need them people that taken refugees into their homes uh you know thousands of people that said we can take one two three families they can they can live here and this shows the real the real essence of the working class the real mood of the working class which is for unity for working class unity against racism against the establishment and this is a part of the general process that we see in the working class is a part of the same process that we saw like Corbyn just just two days ago in Britain as as a labor leader that was in fact a national movement it was a social movement that that that showed itself there and it's a part of that same trend of basically the working class uh one by one understanding the the how do you say the limitations of capitalism the different limitations of capitalism and the limitations that the system is is putting in front of their lives the obstacles that is putting in front of them in order for them not to be able to develop a life in a harmoniously and civilized way this is a I would say it's a revolutionary awakening of the european people of the european working classes which is which is becoming more and more conscious of the real situation underneath the surface and its own real class interests which is in unity in fighting against all these things now I would say that there is a general even from a general point of view I mean aside from this particular refugee crisis in Europe today we have today 59 million refugees and someone told me that this is the biggest amount of refugees in world history uh now I don't know how that would this compared to world war two maybe they were they were more there but it's it's one percent of world population who are refugees today now if you look at the causes for this what are the causes for this is imperialist wars it's privatizations land grabs in places like india and african towns it's it's privatizations it's it's it's basically capitalism it's the bourgeoisie in a situation of crisis trying to defend this not only defend what expands as profits and in a situation of crisis of course the price has to be paid heavily and at an accelerating pace and it's being paid by normal people and therefore normal people are beginning to fight back and this is this is the part of that process that we're beginning to see