 So, before we start the discussion session, I thought I will tell you a few more things which have an impact on the way the T10KT workshops may be conducted in future. If you recall, we had tried to do this, which is instead of a two-week face-to-face workshop, we said one week will be done online by the participants. The equivalent one-week work they will do within one month, that is what we have stipulated. And the face-to-face portion was cut down to about six days of actual active work instead of ten days. That helped us reduce the cost that actually in many cases increased the participation and the work done by the participants because lot of work was done online beforehand. We will be encouraging most of our future workshops to be conducted in that model. From a cost perspective, instead of 5000 rupees as the base cost for 30 people participating, fixed cost plus variable cost, the cost was coming down to how much? 3200 rupees. So, that is a substantial cost saving without in any way reducing the impact of the process. That six-day face-to-face portion is good enough provided participants have done work beforehand. The one problem that participants indicated was that that one month time during which they had to do one-week equivalent of work was a heavy duty time for them. So, whether that could be spread over one and a half months or two months, that means over eight weeks if they are supposed to do work equivalent of five days, then that may be relatively easier, that is what they had said. So, this was essentially a what I call part online workshop. Now, while we have conducted this model and effectively there is a larger phenomena that is happening across the world, all of you would have heard of the word MOOCs, have you? These are massive open online courses. So, let me take five minutes to tell you about the MOOCs in general and about the Indian activities in particular. Online education is nothing new for three decades, online education, personalized tutoring system, machine intelligence to auto grade things, etcetera has been going on, but on the large scale deployment things started happening about three years ago when three companies were set up in the US, two companies on the west coast, one called Coursera and Udacity, both came out of Stanford, but Stanford University had no part in it. The third one called EDX, which was a not-for-profit company set up by Harvard and MIT, who put in 30 million dollars each of their own money to set up this company. They all started collecting and getting big courses designed from top notch, well known professors from top notch universities, they formed consortium of universities, they built platforms for online delivery and they started conducting courses online for global learners. Within a very short time, within one year, most of them had lakhs of learners registering for various top courses across the world. In 2012, IIT Bombay started looking at this very seriously, so we started evaluating what are the possibilities for IIT Bombay. We decided that it would be best to tie up with one of the institutions so that we don't spend too much time in getting on board. Accordingly, a committee was appointed here and we signed a memorandum of understanding with EDX. There are two reasons which helped us to decide in favor of EDX rather than others. All companies are doing good job, but EDX for a not-for-profit company which was more like IIT style of working. Second, they were the only company which had announced that the entire software platform which they were developing for online education will be released in open source in 2013, June. Now that meant a lot for us because then we felt that we could take that platform, adopt it for not only IIT needs but for the Indian needs. So we continued our discussions, we concluded the MOU in April 2013 last year. Our commitment to them, we are now a chartered member of EDX and our commitment to them is to give our courses for global learners. We have given two courses and two more are under design. One course by my colleague Professor Gayathonde on thermodynamics and the other course on computer programming where the professor Supratik Chakravarti and I gave that course. We had 20,000 and 60,000 learners in that. We have seen the power of that platform. It can sustain, it is scalable and it is relatively easy to construct courses on that. The only problem with all MOOCs is that the evaluation is always based on multiple choice questions. So long answers, long assignments are not possible. In programming type courses which we conducted one for example, we had an auto grader where people could upload their program files and they could be automatically evaluated. But in several other courses where you require long answers, you don't get them. It is towards this end that we had tried to popularize the concept of a blended MOOCs course where the students register for the online course but the classrooms are used for discussions on problem solving. No lectures are given. We have conducted such blended MOOCs and flipped classroom course in IIT, Bombay. Professor Kandan has been doing it for the last four years but we conducted it formally in the last semester and the previous semester for our major course and we found that it works well. Simultaneously, government of India wanted to develop its own offering online for the country. So we were asked to make a proposal. We have made a proposal for development of a platform which has now been named as Swayam which actually stands for me or myself. That means the byline or tagline for the Swayam name is that my education, my decision. So basically students can decide which course they will take, which online course they will take from which university. Currently, a committee has been appointed to try and see whether credits obtained by the MOOCs can be recognized by the universities and colleges so that committee will give its verdict. A UGC committee has already recommended that it should be done. The other major problem with MOOCs is all online exams are unsupervised. So the certification even for passing out students is given, is called honor course certificate where I certify that I have not cheated. But if we know the kind of bills that are submitted for example, then we have no reason to believe that the student certification will be 100 percent correct and therefore universities may not recognize those certificates for credits. So what we have proposed is a blended model where the universities if they say that these students can do this online course and will recognize the credits. The students will do the online course but their online exams also will be supervised by the local teachers in the colleges. The teachers of course are free, they don't have to prepare for lectures, they don't have to set question papers, they only have to supervise online exam. So that's a model that is going. What is the relevance of all of that to us, our remote centers and to our teachers? Twofold. One, increasing because the government is planning a very large rollout to swap. Already I have been asked to coordinate with 50 universities to get the best courses that their teachers will offer and there is a large funding proposal which is under discussion at the ministry today to provide creation of 200 courses in various disciplines, not limited to engineering. One of the suggestions is that all the NPTEL work that has been done, those videos can be taken, they could be repurposed if those teachers are interested because creating a MOOCs course is different. On MOOCs you don't have one hour recorded lectures, you have eight to ten minute recorded snippets because other than that people don't see those videos, there has been a statistical analysis of all. Please understand that in just last one and a half years the amount of statistical analysis that has been done on the students' behavior on the MOOCs is more than the total analysis of students' behavior done in the entire history of humanity. And that is because in online participation, every keystroke of the participant is captured. I know exactly for what duration and what day and what time, which student watched video, which student tried which practice problem, which student tried which quiz, all of that is recorded. It is not possible for us to humanly record this student being. So this is a goldmine of data which has been analyzed and pedagogical conclusions are now being drawn. Consequently, and also from the way the MOOCs have flourished all across the world, it is very obvious that increasingly the students will try to learn the best courses from the best place. Now if the students are going to do that, the right thing for us teachers is to both help them to do that and to participate in some kind of blended MOOCs thing. We shall therefore be including in every workshop from now onwards, a small session describing what MOOCs are, how students all over the world are embracing MOOCs and how MOOCs will be in your doorstep before you realize it. So as a teacher, what you should do to participate actively in the MOOCs, that is one. Second, in order to ensure that our teachers are fully familiar with the platform that will be used by most Indian students, we will be using Swayam as the base platform for all online activities from summer onwards. In fact we will see if it is possible even in the pedagogical workshop we might introduce this. Swayam has not been formally launched, currently it is called IIT Bombay test server. We have incidentally trained about 24 teachers from 12 universities who are designing courses as we speak. We have also trained 20 to school teachers who are designing courses for 9 standard science and maths as we speak again. All these courses online will be rolled out very quickly. So the online world is going to catch up in India as rapidly as it has been catching up with rest of the world and therefore our teachers, particularly Indian college teachers cannot be kept aside. Those of you are interested can start reading from a site called edx.org. Education Extended is the name of that company EDX, they have open sourced their software on 1st of June last year. We have been using that software, we have modified it already and we used it for as I said for our blended MOOCs operation. We are fashioning it for conducting our teachers training workshops as well. A new release has just come out from EDX. Incidentally the French national university for online education called France University numeric has already launched it using this. Chinese people have interested this job like IIT Bombay there is a institution called Singhua University. They have already set up a company called Zetong X and they have about 50 courses in Chinese being offered on the national platform which is again built on EDX. India will be the third major nation using this platform and this platform would be launched at any one time. Many of you may read this in the newspaper so you should not be surprised, I thought I would tell you that. With respect to our workshops as I said if the Swayam is launched before January it will be the Swayam platform on which our participants will be working for online activities. If not they will be working on IIT Bombay X platform but they will be they will become familiar with the online courses and in every workshop I will be stealing a small session to appraise all participating teachers about the online activity. So this is just for your information. Now we can continue with our feedback. Sir one question. Yeah. The name IST workshop, the workshop should be changed to either a faculty development program or short term training program because UGC is not allowing name workshop they are not allowing the participants to enroll. So if it is called faculty development program. Yes sir. Okay. So that will be a good thing because it is training teachers so either short term training program or faculty development program. Short term training program is it? Yes sir. So this is the nomenclature everybody agrees that this is the nomenclature? Yes sir. Sorry. Yeah career development point. Mukta can we not change the name immediately from this workshop itself? No, no it's not a question of brochure it's a question of issuing certificate. So what we can do is when you start the workshop tomorrow or second of December on first day itself you announce that this workshop is being re-titled as a short term training program for faculty development. Yeah. So this workshop is being because this is a faculty development program the formal title is being re-christian as faculty development program. Thank you sir. And that we can so we'll correspond and we'll get it endorsed by PRSG. So is the faculty development program name okay? Yes sir. Fine. For good administrative way any change is required for this? No. No, no I will I will send a formal letter saying that we have decided to rename this primarily because the word workshop is not easily recognized by UGC therefore we are recognized. And what I will say is I will say we are also doing the same thing we advise you to issue the certificates under the title and I will also inform ISD that instead of workshop we are calling them faculty development. In fact for good major I will also send a mail to Professor Mantha Chairman of ISD so that there is no confusion. Sir another point is that to have the more impact of remote center coordinators on the participants if you issue identity card that is we are the remote center coordinators so that will be a responsibility of the coordinators also. To me also the workshop team issues this card only. So we have our identity cards of our respective institutions I understand the purpose of your statement but unfortunately it will not be possible for either IIT Bombay or IIT Kharagpur to issue an identity card made for the purposes of one sponsored project that will not be possible. We can issue a later you can ask your local college authorities to issue a separate note if you want but that is not required really. Okay so I thought that during workshops we can use that. Yeah no I understand thank you sir. ISD has been calling these programs as STTPs. ISD has been calling these programs as STTPs. Yes that's a standard name? Yes. Short-term training programs. Oh I see. Instead of FDP it is better you call that. Instead of FDP it is better to call them short-term training program because that's a recognized word by ISD. Yes definitely. So then I think that makes sense because you see I just realize that when I write to ISD see we are issuing ISD certificates under an MOU with ISD. So it may be difficult to get a name which is not already existing in the realms of ISD. So if ISD calls these workshops as short-term training programs then that is what we should call. Yes. But I understand that whether it is short-term training program or FDP both are recognized by UGC. No UGC uses FDP but ISD has been using STTP. No no no the question is suppose I am a teacher in a college and I do this STTP then for my UGC recognized promotional norms whether this is recognized or not. Yes it is recognized. It is recognized. That's all. That was the question. Hello sir. Because we got some letters from participants saying that ISD workshop my college is not recognizing but the short-term training program word may be recognized we will correct that. Sir one more things I want to add yeah from my side that is in sixth wave commission it is written the queries like this that two weeks STTP program should be covered by faculty member. Right. But it should be AICT approved. So some colleges are finding AICT approved words in the certificates. We face this difficulty. So it is not it is not faced by most people because ISD certification is AICT approved. Okay. Yeah if there is a confusion that some people have written to me I have written a clarifying letter marking a copy to Professor Mantha. Professor Mantha says that it is silly for me to issue any clarification because it is understood that ISD certified things are accepted as AICT. Sir as far as NIT is considered there are no new rules and regulations for promotion interviews. There is no use of these courses. Yes that is quite possible. The fundamental purpose why we are conducting these workshops is to actually empower teachers. Certification is a byproduct. So if some people feel that the certification is the main product they should go for some other scheme. That is why there is no any much more interest from NIT institution. I agree. I was not looking forward from NITs for a larger participation as participants in the workshops because NIT faculty members are actually quite well empowered but I was looking for a larger participation from NIT to be all our remote centers. Sadly only few NITs have joined in spite of letters from the ministry and others but I will be persuading more of them to join us because it is a very noble cause if so many colleges are participating all NITs should participate. One question regarding account sir, for TA 100 kilometer is eligible, if a participant is coming from 90 kilometers he is not eligible but we have to provide stay for him. But as per the rule he is not eligible for stay also. So let me let me put it this way the figure 100 is a completely arbitrary figure. There is no sanctity, the government has not suggested this. We discussed this amongst ourselves and we at wherever we had discussed this we had said 100 kilometers. Last time I… No, no please. So the point is if you think this 100 kilometers is not correct in your case write a letter we have done that and please note this suppose there is somebody who lives 80 kilometers away or 90 kilometers away or 95 kilometers away or even 70 kilometers away. There was a case where a teacher was staying only 65 kilometers away but had to change four buses to reach the remote center. When we got that letter we immediately approve there is not a problem. Last time my bill was not approved sir. No so Jaya this is something that you cannot go by the general rule if there is an exception that they have stated then that exception must be counted. I have informed to IIT Kharagpur that course was there IIT Kharagpur. But you may not have informed this exception. No I have informed them. So anyway they were probably not aware of this. What was the reply? Since he is not eligible for TA he is not eligible for stay. Right. See please understand once the rules are formed the teams at both ends have to comply with them. If everybody starts applying discretion there could be great problem. So I apologize for this lapse. No no no it is I take I take the credit I also take the blame. 1128. 1128. So what I will request my colleagues is to go back and sort this out and to make this as a special case in any case the minutes of the meeting will say we will not change the word 100 or whatever good or bad reason it has worked in most cases. But there would be exceptions and I am advising all remote centers that if there is an exception which you think is a genuine exception. But it must be genuine and it must be supported with some link if that is done then and you will know such a participant on at the time of registration itself as the person who registers or correspond with you. The moment you know immediately pass on an information either to IIT Kharagpur or to Bombay whatever the case may be and we will record that such exceptions will be handled except this is not a problem. Third question. Can we increase stay of 175 to 250 like that? What is that? 175. Oh my god it is out of the four hours that I was grilled on the financial proprietary of my budget one hour was spent on food and stay. So this is as per JFR there is hardly anything that I can do about it. And you are sending five lakhs to the institution for purchasing new things when that will be you are sending sir no no sir problem is if that is in the month of January then we have to send the quotation that will take two month and March came. As soon as March came you will request us for settlement of fund and that is not possible sir. Yes. That is a problem. I will be writing to you within in the first week of December saying that such and such amount of money for procurement of any of the following equipment is being approved these are the general specifications of the equipment you are permitted to exceed these specifications if you so wish you are permitted to buy all of these or part of it you can spend more than five lakh rupees any excess amount of money that you spend will have to be spent by the institution up to five lakh rupees of money will be reimbursed or will be given as an equipment grant to you the actual raise of grant cannot happen before the PRSG meeting which will happen in end of December but they later will authorizing you to go ahead with the procurement will come in first week of December you start the processing and the day the funds are given to you within two months we will expect the closure. Thank you sir. We will not be able to release funds to all the institutions there are some issues with some of the institutions for them the funds may be released later but that is okay. Sir regarding the financial part yeah I have few suggestions and solutions yes the titles of the workshops the topic which we choose have to be so fantastic that peoples are more attentive to the workshop and without lack of attendance they attended right and regarding food the participants may not be willing to pay for the food we can avoid that variable cost and even the remuneration as part of remote center coordinator I am ready to work even without remuneration so that fixed cost will also go away we can just charge just 200 may be 200 per participant for institutional expenses and the workshops can be conducted in a self sustained way and as participants pay 200 as well as only the interested people will register and they will attend the workshops and if they submit the assignment you give the certificates. And one more thing is the timing of the workshop as we start exactly at 9 or 9.30 we should finish by 5.30 if it is the schedule if it is extended because of lot of interactions the participants the ladies participants who require to reach the city from the outskirts it takes long time and they reach at 7, 8 and so on so that problem also exists and I have mentioned this earlier also in mails and if it is maintained until 5.30 exactly that can be avoided by avoiding unnecessary questions some some centers out of interest to show their participants to you or the faculty they they frame some unnecessary questions and show show their things to you so such things can be avoided and that will save time. Yeah I think both the sessions are good so let me respond to each one of them about timing professor would you like to say something I think we should be able to maintain strict timing. Yeah I think all of us agree we will advise all the participating faculty that timings are as sacrosanct as in IIT Bombay that means your class is supposed to start at 8.30 you start at 8.30 but more importantly we are supposed to end at 9.25 it will end at 9.20 it will not end at 9.30 we will ensure that. Sir sir as you said the faculty should pay 5000 rupees and after the deliberation it comes out that the figure can be go down so my suggestion is we may ask half of the money from the faculty and half of the money can be be here by the institution because institution is earning crores of rupees from the students and they are doing nothing with the student they are not paying verdict you can say so why why you cannot go other way around you can ask UGC and AICT to screw them and so that they can start earning them. I think if you are what you are saying very crudely translates as follows many of the institutions are minting money in their own ways and you want the regulators in this country to control that behavior now both these issues might be very pertinent to India but they are not pertinent to our discussion here they do not relate to us they only you are trying to relate them by saying that your institution should bear the cost okay that is what you are suggesting my own experience is that in general it's an impossible thing how so noble it may be believe me even IIT Bombay will not bear this cost if there was no government funding IIT Bombay would not have permitted me to recruit hundreds of people IIT Bombay would not have permitted me to build a large lab if I were to build a research lab IIT Bombay will fund me but this execution even IIT Bombay I am saying IIT Bombay does not make crores of rupees on on donation of such account. We can add one thing like corporate government is asking to do CSR activity. Please please please you are talking about ways and means which are much beyond either you and me to implement I mean okay I know Chandra personally I know all the CEOs I can go to them I have done lot of fund collection for IIT Bombay but I am not running a faculty development national scheme based only on the kind heart of the corporate I am saying it primarily because those many teachers need to benefit and therefore I have a limited scope that this is a government funded project that I have government has wanted initiation of a sustainable program I have to initiate that program within the bounds of this project not outside it and believe me whenever you say whatever you are saying unless I am made to pay something from my pocket as long as I get it free its value to me will not be much I will not value something which comes free to me that's a common human thing that is so whatever else we may do it is important that the participating teachers or they should contribute funds that that much I will say in terms of the suggestion that you make this was already made earlier what other way of saying is we are said 5000 rupees as the fees at that point in time and we are said this 5000 rupees as the total there are three components one is the IIT hub component the other is a fixed cost and the other is a variable now suppose we said that these are faculty development programs or short term training programs but participants will have to make their own arrangement for tea and food this is the canteen that we have in the tea break you can go there in the food time you can go there and everybody does that if I am an employee and I am a faculty member I come every day to institute I go home to eat my food or I get my Dabba so that's not a problem and what it means is immediately I can reduce the charges to be charged to participants from 5000 rupees to 2500 rupees secondly the fixed cost also comes down significantly because now I expect a larger number of participants to be able to come if the cost is not 5000 but 2500 about your suggestion that the fixed cost could be brought down to zero because there is no need to give any honorarium I have two possible objections on that one is people like you and me will be there amongst us all of us may agree that will not take any honorarium but does that program become sustainable in the long term second if people are working it is dishonorable to expect them to work free of cost of course perpetual one thing was steps to research program was conducted by Amal Jyothi you must be going and that worked very well and I had more number of participants than any of our IIT Bombay ocean so how did you do the charging there was just 200 for two days and 60% of the cost was taken by the college and 40% was given back to remote setting I wish the other colleges were as rich as Amal Jyothi they could they could contribute that so let us let us put it this way we all seem to be in the agreement that there has to be some charge 5000 is universally felt as very high and people will not come 200 I believe is too small an amount so is there he is saying 200 rupees per day you are saying I see 100 rupees a day okay so here is another model the other model is we say something like 150 rupees a day for a 10 day program a 1500 rupees charge the remote centers have to rationalize their fixed cost such that from these 1500 rupees they will meet all the fixed cost that they have for the institution and that we will not serve any food or tea people can make their own arrangement food you have to provide otherwise what will happen that you will not get any that this participants for these because the people used to come from no it's not it's not a question of provision but the food can be provided at cost it is not it is not but how much that will be that food cost will be how much no how much is whatever is the cost that depends upon the individual place okay there is nothing like a fixed cost sir I have a suggestion I have I have this side I have just taken down the what are the amount that we are paying for honorarium so for example if we consider still we are paying for the honorarium that is RCC and WCC that is something 26000 rupees AVU coordinator system administrator whatever the technical staff we combine it because AV coordinator can work as an system and we should all those things that will be the 5000 rupees if we require teaching assistant for 30 we can have a one teaching assistant that will be 5000 rupees and for suppose stop it is a 2000 so it goes to 38000 right and whatever the miscellaneous account that you are talking about and 10,000 rupees for the institution miscellaneous account that pan that is pad, pain, some bags so because from next workshop we have already decided so that cost goes to 48000 so it is that total cost will be reduced to 1600 for 10 days so it is 160 rupees for that so institution can bear that other cost also let me let me once again say these figures that he just mentioned and these are the figures that we have been operating with are not sacrosan these were decided in a meeting similar to this conducted long time ago that time also it was decided primarily with my suggestion that we should not take anybody's work free of cost and therefore we should respect that and pay some honorarium these amounts were arbitrary then these amounts are arbitrary now however we have two years of experience and we have two years of experience which is a mixed bag there are places where honorarium is not paid to the people who have worked there are places where honorarium is misabjudicated now these are bad instances there are good instances there have been colleges which the heads of institutions have come and told me Professor Fadak don't pay any honorarium because in our institution it is recognized duty for every faculty member to participate in such thing we don't pay any honorarium to faculty members who participate in similar other events if we pay honorarium to such people it is creating a bad precedent so this has been a problem all now what has happened is because we made a universal rule and applied it everywhere all institutions had to undergo the same instead of that if we go over to a model where we say a fees or charge is fixed this fees or charge will be collected and paid directly to the local institution it is entirely up to the local institution to do what they wish to do with that charge IIT Bombay does not come into picture at all it is for each remote center to decide how to use that fund IIT Bombay's expectation is if you charge this money the remote center must function properly during the workshop that's all you get the point what we could do is to facilitate the smooth transition we could inform whatever model we had and we could inform the head of the institution that these are currently this is our costing model this is the honorarium that is paid to people depending upon the work involved and in this model we are tweaking it to make it self-sustaining like this now the institution may take its own decision in which way they want to go ahead with it but if it is possible that instead of we need to announce a lump sum fees we cannot announce a per day fee or something like that but if we run a workshop will be run in either one of the two modes that is either full two weeks face to face or one week face to face that is six days face to face and the remaining days online in which case the cost may come down further so instead of 2500 it could be as much as 1500 for a ten day workshop and let us say 900 rupees for a six day face to face both are two week workshops but this is the cost model do you think this cost model is better? that was awesome we have already conducted both the main workshops so what I just find out there whenever there is an application for total of one there will suppose 100 applications and 34 hours of work but actually when the people comes for attending a workshop then figures come down to round about 50 or 60 because it is a 30 correct so we can divide our four six to two ways one will be the application correct that is non-elementary that is non-elementary remaining charge we can take for first day of the thing so same way we saw yeah I think that is how many organizations make money application form for a job there are ten jobs, one lakh applications the application form cost 100 rupees so I think they recover money for all the people whom they will employ for next ten years anyway no no sorry oh you want IIT Bombay to do the accounting of 10,000 transactions sir all these discussions what we are making on reducing the cost that is one thing we can adopt after finalization the other thing is we can make the programs attractive yes that is one thing there are many redundance because the resource persons are excellent there is no doubt about it there are some redundances we can reduce and then the programs can be made five or six days maximum in whatever case some part it is online or it is offline something we can make some modifications that is one thing too weak is very difficult to sustain that is what many teachers are also doing yes that is the other thing and timings also we have discussed in metro cities four o'clock almost all the colleges they close down and after if you run up to 530 then there will be no transportation available from the college side so that is a major problem we can think of 430 maximum we can run the workshops we have been told particularly in the east and northeast we have a major problem where the evening happens much earlier than rest of the country yes maybe we can think of starting earlier at 9 sharp and come 2 by 4 yes sir that could be a better idea see the right hand side wants to start at 9.30 the left hand side wants to stop at 4 how do I combine these two I don't know we can even start at 9 o'clock yes sir and the last question sir yeah these certificates anyway it is issued by the highest authority in India and then should be honored many colleges, management the honoring these certificates what we see is not seen what is expected that means there must be we can make a proposal we request you to make a proposal to the agency JICT, UGC like these are significant workshops attended by the participants must be honored in terms of benefits to the participants say if we attend some 2 or 3 workshops in a year it must be honored as additional increment to the management it can be proposed no we cannot make any such proposal but there are already set rules in which these certificates are supposed to be factored and that we have already agreed to change the terminology I take your point yes sir if it is honored that way we can make any type of fees many participants we can have the apart from knowledge gaining this is another benefit I appreciate it thank you sir there is one request from our side to organize workshops on the topics like image processing embedded systems or cloud computing by involving other IITs also like IIT Kanpur, IIT Chennai image processing embedded systems embedded systems and cloud computing because many people are doing their research for the AMTEC and PED level big data analytics also very good chapter by involving other faculties from IITs IIT Chennai, IIT Kanpur you know we have absolutely no problem by IIT I mean if there is a great professor who is well known in IIT or any college in Jharsapura we are most welcome to come and participate we have had a few proposals from some people but when we investigated it turned out that the person was very passionate but not really very competent to handle 10,000 teachers however we have for example research methodology we went all the way and invited Professor Sipath Karmalkar from IIT Madras so we are absolutely no issue we want the best teachers in the country or anywhere in the world to come and contribute to the betterment of our teachers and IIT Kanpur has been also inviting people who are not necessarily with IIT Kanpur IIT Bombay or IIT Kanpur have no such penchant for you know keeping things to ourselves never we want the best teachers to come about the subjects that you mentioned it may not be possible to cover these subjects because our mandate is very specifically to contribute to the basic courses in engineering and science because that is where the government feels and I also agree largest number of teachers are involved so anything which will benefit the largest number of teachers across the community of engineering and science colleges is our priority however we can always experiment with other subjects now here is a chicken and egg story I have approval for conducting 15 workshops as per this budget if I get into a self-sustaining mode and prove that that works out successfully I will be able to conduct more such workshops on different subjects otherwise the project will close after we complete the 15 and from next year onwards the government will not fund it so all our dreams of going across to multiple disciplines will remain that my suggestion is that in the next summer amongst the workshops that we conduct we will try at least one if not two workshops on some kind of a self-sustaining model the subject that I propose which people have correctly mentioned that the workshop must be attractive both in terms of its reach and in terms of its conduct if you recall we had conducted the workshop on research methodologies very early as an experiment workshop we have got many more ideas by conducting that workshop and now it is a full-fledged subject I suggest that we conduct a workshop on research methodologies this summer which could be the first workshop for the self-sustaining model in the self-sustaining model we believe that a majority of teachers will participate in that workshop and let that become the benchmark for our subsequent workshop in December that we will clear is that okay with you? Sir I would like to suggest one topic also for the workshop that may be for the IPR and pattern related processes so that will be better and that will be useful for all the faculties IPR related and pattern filing process and another thing is the major IPR violation in India is happening primarily unfortunately because of our teachers do you know that in terms of plagiarism India is considered number one today unfortunately I mean that's a very sad number one to have you know there are IEEE warnings there is a list by the way you might want to go back and examine whether your college is in that list I was shocked to see some of the names these are the names of the colleges from which teachers have published papers plagiarizing contents left right and centre so I think a workshop on IPR is very good idea and pattern filing process also I know I was just joking but the issue of IPR so what we could do is see a two week workshop on IPR alone is very difficult to sustain the reason why one second the reason why we want to maintain a two week model is because what AICTA and IST told me at that time is that a two week short term course is a recognized component in any one of the advancement career advancement etc but what we could do is we could combine a whole lot of things around IPR for example plagiarism is an IPR violation intellectual property is not only for commercial benefits it's also for these benefits so I have noted this if we will find out who are the best people to speak on this and what kind of course can be sir ideas about the patent filing process also sir that will be also beneficial sorry ITA it comes to everything in the same I think it will come into this concept ITA ITA act cyber crime sir not the technology of cyber security but the act and legal aspects legal aspects sir one more thing regarding the model many private institutions runs the workshop they keep that at the discretion of the institute that whatever the fees is collected they are distributing it like 40% to the institute institute is protected and 60% they distribute amongst the staff so that type of model can be finalized and it can be kept at the discretion of the institute that how they are going to collect the fees how much amount they are going to collect this thing from the participants and they can distribute the honorarium accordingly yeah I have I have no problem in institutions deciding what honorarium to pay not to pay whatever whatever and the distribution component etc I have a problem in differential fees for the same workshop across the country so that is what needs to be fixed sir we are directly in that IIT not taking any charge that is going to be free from IIT Bombay side so institute can decide how much they will get from the participants no it will be clear you know that will not wash IIT Bombay please understand that the workshop is announced by IIT Bombay it announces a list of remote centers but it cannot say that the fees at each remote center is so and so if the fees as each remote center is so and so everybody would like to register for the lowest cost remote center that is not a practical suggestion that is one of the reasons why we are having so much discussion on the amount is because that amount has to be same across the country whatever it is good bad or again you express your concern regarding the research in status of research in our country so as you see the new six pay commission in that they have put more marks on the research side also from faculty so we are focusing right now on their teaching skill so but it is very well said that great researcher cannot be a great teacher and vice versa not necessary it is not true always so don't generalize either way no no no it is wrong state there are bad teachers who are also bad researchers so my thing is IIT is doing very well in research they are publishing good paper filing good patent so why IITs cannot come out and extend their facility exactly but their intellectual ability to the lower institution let's say if somebody is very possessive about research but he could not get the help write in terms of writing paper in terms of accessing some equipment so why you cannot have a program or a one sort of self-sustaining model I can suggest in that some faculty can join a particular research topic and then have a deliberation yes this is again a bi-product coming out of our interaction I have advised both IIT directors and others that this is the desire of the participating teachers very essential so we understand that however I would like to restrict our discussion right now to what we should do with our model and while doing changes into our model how can we facilitate such greater interaction as you mentioned at a point in time the most important thing is if the project closes next year and all interaction between the IIT system and the remote centers and the 10,000 teachers stops please also appreciate that all this discussion that you are doing has primarily come out of the fact that so many teachers have interacted with the IIT system in the last two years very extensively they know like in which field which are the teachers who are working that is the initial part if that interaction stops completely further build up will be difficult so first thing is to continue this training program second thing is to build on it as you suggested my feeling is that let this be a part of the discussion in the research methodology course will put a panel discussion on how I would not say IIT system but I would say how top recognized researchers in the country in various academic institutions can help other teachers in the other institutions in terms of setting up the core I think we will put that as a topic there that is again in mechanical engineering there are traditionally three specialization thermal design and manufacturing yeah design and manufacturing is absolutely untouched by enemy ICT so what I feel that some design engineering or maybe manufacturing this is one thing the other important thing which I want to mention here is that we were talking about the certificate these certificates which are issued to us these are useful only in the career advancement schemes people I mean we should understand that these are not issued to give any kind of additional increment somebody was talking about the certificates which are not issued to get the additional that is not the intension also and that we cannot say anything about there is a misunderstanding about this no that is a localized misunderstanding don't worry I think people understand this I want to suggest a topic for next workshop I have attended that workshop three years back and that is python SDS and that time we had around 40 remote centers and that workshop was good about done by professor Madhur Baler and professor Pichai so that workshop that could be done again the problem is that that workshop is extremely good for the students and prospective programmers for teachers is there a great value in that workshop that is the question so the answer is that value is there provided that teachers we are talking about certificates the main aim of this workshop is to take the knowledge and deliver it to the students so when students are we are talking about python when faculty comes to this workshop they deliver back to students not for their own yes so you think that large number of faculty members will be interested yes however that workshop if I am not mistaken was conducted five weekend workshop and you think that could still be popular sir the reason we had that workshop is that we saw faculty coming even on Sunday also taking an off right five Sundays they were sacrificing their Sundays so there were genuine participants who are coming to attend that that was one of the best workshops that I remember that we have conducted over last three years that's a good point because I mean computer programming in general is considered an introductory topic and if python programming and I know python programming is important the entire edx platform by the way is done using python and sir plus we can include the open source as well so python is open some knowledge about open source which faculty should know about the point that he is making is he is also reminding us of a workshop where participating teachers came for five weeks on Sundays spending their own time now what I take what I distill from his statement is not python but what I distill from him is if a course is doubly meaningful where a certificate could be useful for career but the knowledge is useful directly for me then the faculty members are perhaps more enthused to attend that is the thing that I said we can start off with the pilot project of self sustainable in the on that case we will see what to do for the IST certification this is the model that we are following please understand that when we offer the financial assistance it is not only during the workshops but it is also on other occasions when any interaction is framed that the remote centers are required to make that infrastructure available one such suggestion which was made by professor P. P. Chakravati director of IIT Kharagpur when I met him last is something on the lines of what he said that faster research interaction can we have focused seminars on Sundays on a specific topic so we can take heat transfer for example we can take solar energy or whatever and we could have a weekly three hour discussion an exposition by the top researcher an interaction and question answers by the faculty members so there could be a Sunday workshop on a topic which is primarily for research this is not for certificate no funding, no nothing but we would expect remote centers which are funded by this equipment and all to make the facility available on Sunday for such work now that would go a long way to build the research relationship also so one more suggestion can we open this workshop for everyone faculty the one day workshop that I am mentioning it is for the degree college science electronics no no no, please let me speak for the one day workshop that I mentioned for research interaction absolutely this is not for a certificate this is not funded by the government this is meant for knowledge exchange a secondary student who is interested in research can participate a science college teacher from a neighboring college can participate anybody who is interested in participate an 80 year old retired scientist who wishes to interact can participate by the way the restriction in the participation for the teachers is primarily because the IST workshops are conducted with IST certification in mind and this is meant for the teachers who teach those subjects but any other program that we do including a python program which might do outside IST for example that will not be limited only to it could be for students it could be for others it could be for professionals whatever in fact we might even suggest that suggestion that somebody made that different colleges may charge different fees depending upon their cost supposing I have a two day workshop on Saturday, Sunday and for python as you say and we will say IIT Bombay will conduct this workshop there is no fees to be paid to IIT Bombay but local college may charge any fees for the local cost 25 rupees 30 rupees, 100 rupees, 500 rupees they will register with the local colleges that's all even for the research seminars I would not like to keep it free if I am a researching student or a young teacher and I want to participate in a research seminar on let's say photovoltaic sale where professors Dhuja Rozi and others are going to discuss research problems I would expect you to ask me to pay 50 rupees or 100 rupees to attend that to participate no certificate is just cost of attending that workshop I think that would be possible isn't it so we will keep that in mind so is it agreeable that we conclude at least this part of the discussion by saying that we will conduct at least one workshop this summer towards the self sustaining model in this workshop we shall not pay institutions anything but we will ask the participants to pay a fixed amount of money it is more like 1500 rupees or 1000 rupees and if this workshop is one week equivalent online and one week face to face then the charges could be about 1000 rupees for the two week workshop this 1000 rupees are to be paid directly to the institution but the institution that is remote center is accountable to IIT Bombay in so far as conductor the workshop is concerned and distribution of the certificate is cancelled is that okay I would like to add one more topic like cognitive radio radio resource management we had organized cognitive radio radio resource management sir this is a research topic and the research is going on the research is going on IIT Kharagpur so very esoteric topic I had not even heard of it but I will learn more about it cognitive radio yes sir cognitive radio sorry what is your sorry IIT Kharagpur IIT Kharagpur IIT Kharagpur IIT Kharagpur IIT Kharagpur IIT Kharagpur IIT Kharagpur only one post RC coordinator if possible please incorporate RC coordinator and workshop coordinator I will not touch the remuneration part whatever you can give second thing A-view coordinator you have put A-view coordinator not system analyst system analyst is the person who is providing all the things who is providing us the A-view coordinator also can you incorporate system administrator oblique A-view coordinator and RC coordinator and workshop coordinator I will not touch the remuneration part thank you okay let's break for tea and come back again