 So welcome back to the next episode of The Therapy Show Behind Closed Doors with the wonderful Mr Bob Cook and myself Jackie Jones and what we're going to be looking at in this episode is something a bit different I think. It's going to be on building your own therapy website. What a wonderful topic and thanks for calling me wonderful. I was just thinking as you were sitting there how would I introduce you? I think I might introduce you as some welcome to the delicious and exotic Jackie Jones. Oh way up. I like that one. Yeah maybe you should have a go introducing it sometimes and I'll let you. I think I was just smiling to myself. Okay so building your own website. Now I know we did a podcast on social media some back in time in our history. Now this is a specific one on websites and I think I put it because I sort of send most of the titles to Jackie and I included this because I think in 2023 every therapist needs to have a website. Now yeah people listen to me can disagree about that. If you look at though if you look at or talk to I think most therapists have a website yeah they may never use it. They might say well actually we don't get any class at the website or maybe it's an educational website or whatever it is but they usually have a website and I would advocate personally every therapist has one and for lots of different reasons by the way. I could give you the six or seven reasons so we could start with the number one reason. Oh actually I was smiling to myself because what would this is in no linear term because you're on the reality tv programs and I watch many many of them they say when they pronounce the winner they say in no linear. Not in order of importance. Yeah yeah not whatever it is so I'm not going to do that but I will say number one about websites they can be used to get they can be used to attract clients. Yeah absolutely number two. I think we do need to have an online presence like you say in 2023 I think it's vital yeah. So let's come I'm going to give these and then we'll come back to them. Yeah. So one is to attract clients. Two for educational purposes. Yeah. I really yeah three to be able to give information about what clients we work with and we don't work with. Yeah four to provide information on courses groups projects services that we might be putting on. Yeah. Five I think that websites provide a up to date extension of our social media platform which means that our our own visual self or in this case our social media presence is part of this sort of advertising plinth of courses in 2023. So I think it's very important so let's go through would you like to add another reason for having a website I mean I was going to go back and we can talk about each one but I those are the ones I thought about. Have you got anything to add? I think you've kind of covered everything. I think it's a good way of getting an email list together of people. Well I didn't mention but let's put this on the list it's a good networking tool. Yes yeah. I didn't add that. Great great. So let's go back to number one what was number one was it um attracting clients. Yeah let's go back to that. So I have business websites and a personal website. So I have one for the Manchester Institute of Psychotherapy everybody wants to go on and look at the model it's www.mcpt.co.uk. I have one for advertising supervision and I forget the actual website of that. I have a personal website called bopcook.org so I have several websites. When I started off my own journey before I became Manchester Institute of Psychotherapy it was way before the advent of websites but as websites became more popular I think the first website and it's I don't remember when it was Jackie but it's when when websites started to be used right in its infancy was the Manchester Institute for Psychotherapy. So I I think my first big website definitely was advertising the courses the TA courses the TA training and that part of it. I didn't use that particular website for advertising clients but I I use yellow pages and things like that back then but I would always recommend the trainees and I probably did with you build websites so that people know that you're there yeah and that you can advertise your services in a constructive way and it will be part of the social media presence. Yeah because I think nowadays it's really important or yeah it is really important to to brand ourselves to a certain extent do you know what I mean and have a website that says a lot about us as a person and who we are people buy into that rather than just the therapy if that makes sense I think. Yeah after you've gone through all these I would like to talk about some of the perceived dangers of websites. Yes absolutely. Start off with the one we were talking about. Yeah what was the second one that? Educational. Yeah so you know you might specialize for example and be a sex therapist or you might specialize in eating disorders or you may specialize as a relationship therapist or you may specialize in whatever so often I think if you've got a particular specialism or even if you haven't but especially if you've got a specialism I think it's important to put some educational information about your specialism that might attract people who have a certain passion for this into your orbit. Yeah in the online world they call it a niche don't they are a niche or whatever you know what I mean it's like your people the kind of people that you want to work with yeah. So you've got a website haven't you Jackie? Yes yeah I've got two I've got two as well yeah. Do you use it for educational purposes to build up a niche and attract people to the world of your passions? Yeah yeah I think it says a lot about me. I do a lot of educational stuff through emails through my email list but also blog posts that I put up. Oh that's how I do a lot of you know educational type stuff is in blog posts. Yeah blog posts yeah that's another another add-on to these websites is that you put blogs onto them. Yeah and people not can not only can the google or yahoo or whichever sort of operators system come through but they can find you through the algorithms if you like yeah your passions and world. Yeah and like free resources if I've got any downloads or you know things like that I'll I think that's what I put under the educational side of things yeah. Yeah so I know most of this goes on the mcpt website educational bit if you like but I also have of course a youtube here at bobcook.org there's loads of educational videos yeah and reviews of psychotherapy books the TA101 how transaction analysis is and how it can be used to change life a lot of information about different educational processes is on my website. Yeah yeah yeah and links to different places where you can it's like a whole business really your website where you can direct them off yeah. So I think it's very important to put blogs and all the things we're talking about here to attract people into your world. Yeah absolutely and again I think you know the way that because yes it can be visualizing videos but it can also be the way that we talk in the blog posts and that sort of stuff that people will warm to us hopefully yeah because when I know I'm not for everybody and that's okay you know some people will be drawn to me and some people will be repelled by me and that to me is okay I don't take it personally at all. What was the third thing though? Give information on who we are and who we work with. Yeah so when we're attracting clients hopefully we'll say a little bit about who we are who are qualified or not or professional history and the sort of category of clients that we might be able to offer our services to yeah with depression or we work with anxiety or we work with eating disorders or we work with relationships or whatever it is so people have an idea not only yourself but also the areas that we can offer our services to. Yeah I'm thinking as you're talking what are the tabs across the top of my website and I think the first one is is about me where it's like that I trained at the Manchester Institute for Psychotherapy you know between 2012 and 2016 and you know the areas where I would say that I'm working in so yeah there's you know that side of things there definitely. And that will really help people in terms of not only knowing a little bit more about you professionally but also know the areas that you're working. Yeah and I think it's worth mentioning as well in that section you know how we work whether we work online or face-to-face or telephone or zoom or there's that many different ways that you can actually connect with clients now. Oh that's really important what you've just said there by the way because we have the rise of what we call zoom therapists. Now it's not an area I particularly want to work in but in terms of people who haven't got accessibility to therapy or people who've got social anxiety, people who know find it hard to get out for example then it's good that they can find therapists who can offer different types of services and they'll only know about that if a person's got a website. Absolutely I thought I'd never do zoom and yet I did it for a good couple of years you know even when we could go back to seeing people I stayed on zoom for a while. I think the only type of therapy that I wouldn't do well there's two I think one is telephone and the other is text therapy. I really don't know how text therapy works. Well you mean messenger therapy is same thing as a messenger. Yeah yeah it just doesn't sit well with me so those those are the two that I don't think I've ever ventured down but never say never who knows in 10 years. If you put your services whatever they are on the website so people can find you. Yes yeah and the different ways I think I've got something ways to work with me and do you know what I mean the different ways that people can connect and work with me yeah. So for the people listening to this just think if they put their name into Google would their websites, would their social media, would their profiles come later? Yeah certainly if you put Bob Cook into it they would put Jackie Jones into it they do and I think that that's important in terms of visibility in terms of people being able to find you. I think it's an interesting thing to do as a therapist is type in your name and see what actually comes up and how far down the list you are with things because you know Google ratings and rankings and SEO and all this malarkey stuff you've got to think what a person is going to type in for your kind of therapy and are you going to come up in that list because that's how we get clients a lot of the time. All my referrals now are through Google. So it's really important what you're saying here yeah. What's the next one I said on the list? The next one is courses groups what what kind of how people can work with you whether you offer courses or whether you work with groups. Next thing if you are going to move into be a couples therapist or a group therapist or you're going to offer webinars or if you're going to blog or whatever it is I think that's really important to go on the website because it's in the same vein people then know for you there's more visibility they know what you offer and that's when you're going to start getting the referrals. Yeah I mean science of course can go on other websites that like counseling directory like psychology today I mean there's other websites of course which provide a whole sort of directory that people can search on but I think it's really important that even if you're on those directories you put your website down yeah because when you go on a directory and you pay I don't know 32 pounds a month or whatever is the other directory you can only put so many sentences and words in yeah so if you say well please go to my websites to get more about in terms of content services specialisms and what I offer then they can go to the website and have a far bigger sense of view and content and then even take them time to look through the website so it's you can go on all these directories but it really is advantageous if when you go on them you can put them to your website. Yeah I think you know following on from what you're saying as well yes you can be on you know these psychotherapy directories and everything and I did used to point people to that but it's nice to do a search and see the individual person and following on from that what I was then thinking was I have testimonials on my website as well which is a bit iffy because often if you've got a client they're not going to want to give you a testimonial obviously it's not you know or two people don't want to advertise the fact that they've seen a therapist so it can be difficult sometimes to get people to leave a review for you it's not like you buy and they give it five star rating but if you can that's helpful as well because it gives you reliability somehow. I think it gives you a sense of gravitas. That's a bit of a heavy word for me that I was thinking more reliability. That sense of professional gravitas yes yeah and so you've had people who've been really bowed or they've achieved a lot from the services you offer and they would hardly recommend you. Yeah and if ever I do do it I always let them know that it will be confidential and I will just put client A or client B. I don't generally put their names to it unless they expressly say it's okay to do that. Yeah so that's because I don't want to run out on this podcast. What's the next one if I've said anything? You put up to date extension of social media and then networking tool. Very important in terms of networking. Yeah because if you can network with you know colleagues of a similar alightness or similar path they're going down. You can then have a whole network of people who will be on your side in terms of building the website the links the all the different websites can promote each other and you'll get more many more likes if you like in the whole social media world and people are going to know you and your visibility is going to go much bigger if you have a good networking. Absolutely yeah. I know you network extremely well. I like to think so yeah. It's a big pond you know I think some people can be quite insular in being a psychotherapist because they think you know people are going to poach their clients or I don't know. For me I think it's really important I go to a networking group not with therapists but it's called unique ladies and it's a local networking group that's just women business owners because if you're working on your own which you generally are as a therapist there's just you and the clients it can be a very lonely place sometimes. Yeah that's the other that's what I'm saying networking is fantastic. Yeah yeah if you're working for a business or you're working in the NHS and you know what I mean there's a lot of you around that's one of the things with MIP there's a lot of therapists all in one place so you can you know have peer support and all that sort of stuff but for a lot of us in private practice we work on our own. Absolutely correct so there are all the reasons now let's talk about some and before I do I want to say the positives for me largely outweigh the negatives I'm going to say but there are negatives. Oh absolutely yeah. I'll start off with some yeah okay and that's just clients that have got to me or people who've got to me who are psychotherapists they finish their training and then coach websites and things like that and they say to me things or to their trainers things like well you know I have imposter syndrome or you know I can't possibly be visible yeah so it's a psychological process they often need to go to therapy to deal with that so I just want to flag that there are people who do have very acute anxiety about what they might say in inverted commas exposing themselves or being visible or imposter syndrome all these different things which means they often paralyse themselves or feeling capacitated in the world of building websites. I did that for years Bob. Oh did you? I did you look quite shocked because you're very visible now. I am now but for years I was that person hiding from people and then wondering why nobody phoned me. Yeah yeah possibly to come through that. Yeah it's been a journey put it that way. How did you manage to break that block? I've jumped hurdles since the past 12 months with my diagnosis I think nothing scares me now but it was it was definitely imposter syndrome and it was it sounds really weird but a fear of being thought of as an expert. Ah that's not weird I understand that. That that really did scare the bejesus out of me. I'm kind of glad you've come through that and you know I put Jackie Jones and I can see how visible and successful you are and your man's information and support you give to people so I think that's early to congratulate you. Thank you very much that means a lot coming from you but yes I do get that imposter syndrome with you know you know especially a newly qualified psychotherapist yeah. Interesting because if you take me back close 35 that's many years ago 72 now I didn't work out the maths but when I started to advertise from clients I did yellow pages way before internet and websites then I and I've always as I've said in another websites other podcasts on me I've always put money into advertising and for whatever reasons I've not had those fears I've always I think it's because I've always been a risk taker. Yeah it's been someone that you know yeah that's it at the end of the day I think being a risk taker I'm on the other opposite side of that spectrum but I know lots of people all reference to what you just talked about and so I've always I've always done that but so therefore people think of me oh you're all over the internet oh you know interestingly though once I've got the Manchester University of Psychotherapy it was Manchester Institute of Psychotherapy which was all over the internet and then they say oh well but you are Bob Cook. That's you. But there is those people and thanks for saying where you come from on this I plan on moving and those people who have those challenges have those struggles that's that bit another thing is and I'm always talking to trainees about this um and you hear this quite a lot or I do is where clients put in their therapist's name into Google or whatever it is. Oh Jackie Jones, Bob, Co-Co come over and if that person has put too much personal information about themselves in it, then, you know, there can be a negative side to that. I think. Yeah, yeah. And for the highly disordered clients particularly, you could wake up, especially if you've put your dress and where you are on. I mean, I've got the logistics of psychotherapy. I've never ever put my personal address down. But you open the door, get out, and that client's put a tent on some ground near you and started, you know. That's the downside of being self-employed and working from home is you, you know, people know where you live. Yeah. And that was a big fear for me when I first started. Because you come, it's not you being visible then, it's your home being visible. Absolutely. Yeah. I would say to people, don't give too much information out about you on a personal level. Yeah. Professional. Yeah. Yeah. Much as you can. Yes. Yeah. And I think I do. There is a big picture behind me, but you can't really see, you know, that it is somebody that I'm related to in there. But in my therapy room, there is nothing that identifies me in that room, if that makes sense. It's a big challenge as far as that's concerned. I think it's really important on social media websites that you think about this. I know it's not, I'm extending into social media a bit here, and I know I did a podcast on it. But you see, once that information goes even onto your websites, really, then it can be picked up by Facebook. It can be picked up by all these platforms that we're talking about from Twitter and Instagram and whatever it is. And suddenly, you're far more visible than you ever imagined you would be. Yeah. So I would say keep personal information. For a minimum, definitely. Yeah. Stay behind a professional curtain. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't mean you can't say I'm a warmhearted therapist that works from a relational perspective. That's different. Yeah. But if you start talking about your family and your kids, the way you live, that is not a good thing to do on a website or on social because, as I say, it can be picked up on so many platforms. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose I do share a lot about me on social media, not on my website, but I do on social media. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about websites. And so I just wanted to say a bit about what people need to think about when they're building websites positive and perhaps a bit more negative. Yeah. The other thing that might be worth mentioning as well for the websites is scheduling and taking payments that can be done automatically. I like a good old fashioned paper diary. Even though I do schedule things online, I always have a paper diary as well. That's just how I like to work. That's a really, really good point because there's many therapies and some I know could pick six off the top of my head and do as accurate as they have a calendar in there. They do scheduling. Yeah. And they use their websites for almost like a scheduling diary. Yeah. Yeah. And it's fine if that's the way that you work, but I like to have mine so that I can look at it. But, you know, being able to take payments directly on your website as well, you know, there's so many things that you can do through a website now that makes the business side of things. Because to be fair, when we're self employed, we're business owners. We're not just psychotherapists. We're running a business as well. So, you know, having a website that works for you, I think is really important. Yeah. It's another sense of professionalism. Yeah. It's a sense of visibility. And you can use the website in all these ways, educational or therapeutic diaries with scheduling, advertising your services, all the things we've talked about. And in 2023, I think it's very important thing for therapists who wish to make this their professional career to consider. Yeah. Yeah. And you can do it, you know, you don't need a massive grand thing that costs, you know, £5,000 to set up or whatever. There are cheap ways of setting it up so that you've just got a one page website to start off with. And then, you know, as you grow, so does your website. Yeah. Because it can be really daunting. I thought it was daunting when I first got one. Just even buying a domain name. It's a big decision to make. You know, what title are you giving yourself? What are you calling your business? It's like, oh my God. Yeah, right. I'm going to say my favourite phrase. Go on. Building a website should be a process. Not an event. Love that. I'm going to have that on my tombstone. This was a process, not an event. Yeah. I agree with you completely. Yeah. And sometimes I think we look online at other people's websites. And that, for me, was probably where some of my imposter syndrome came from. It was like, there's no way that I'm ever going to be able to achieve that or do that or just be authentically you and start wherever you are and build up. Great. I enjoyed talking about that. Me too. Thank you. So what we're going to do next time, which is another interesting topic, you give me such wonderful content to work with, Bob, is conquering the toxic parental dialogue in the therapy process. Oh my gosh. Exactly. A good one. Gosh. That's where I started in my first, that'd be 35 years ago or 45 years ago. So, um, oh, what a wonderful title. You come up with some good ones to be fair, don't you, Bob? Yeah, I look forward to that. Okay. Thank you so much. Come on. Talk soon. Bye. 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