 Okay, so we're about to begin an interview we're in downtown Montreal in Sheraton during the United Steelworkers Conference. And to begin, could you please state your full name? Sure, my name is Marty Warren and I work for the United Steelworkers. I'm the District Six Director, which is responsible for Ontario and Atlantic Canada. And where were you born? I was born in Berry, Ontario, but I grew up a majority of my life shortly, about six months into my life. My parents moved to Kitchener, Ontario. So I was raised in most of my whole life in Kitchener, Ontario. And when you were a child, what did your parents do for a living? My dad was an iron worker. He did a lot of structural steel. And my mom, like most women in the day, are wives in the day, women in the day. My mom didn't enter the workforce until we were off to school. And she worked to support staff for any community college. Okay. And you as a child, what were your interests or your hobbies? I was pretty much like any kid growing up. Not a whole lot of interests in terms of, I wasn't a science guy or anything, but you know, hanging out in the street quite frankly, hockey was a big part of my life, whether it was road hockey or falling hockey or playing hockey. So if anything, I would say hockey. And then back in the day, you know, we didn't have all the electronic stuff. So we were out in between hide and go seek and hanging out and driving bikes and stuff like that. So, and just pretty typical. And at school, did you start focusing on more of a specific strength or interest? Well, actually, yeah, in school, as I kind of came up there more through in high school, started to focus on more of a business type degree or heading in business. I thought that was always exciting to me. And then I watched a video at one point. It was probably, I was at a high school probably doing a little community college, but I watched a movie called The Final Offer. And it was a movie put together by then president of the auto workers, White, Bob White. And it was and it showed kind of real high level bargaining with the big three auto industry in Canada was a documentary that was brought years later. And that really kind of attracted me somewhat to kind of the labor side of business. And so anyways, that's if anything, that's probably what I focused on. I was my dad was an iron worker. So when I came out of high school, I went to college for a couple of years of just basic stuff. And then he got me into the trade. So I was a unionized iron worker. And for about three years, I did that with apprenticeship school. And then there was a huge recession in about, say 82 ish. And it was very difficult to find work. So ultimately, what I decided to do is there was a rubber factory, it was a B.F. Goodrich tire plant Kitchener. And I decided that we are very fortunate Kitchener was once a very industrial place where there was auto plants, many of them, there was the furniture, there was meat processing and we were two actually tire plants. So I had decided then that the trades were slowing down. And I was trying to kind of get my life together in terms of buying a house or what I was going to do. And one thing about the trades at that point, you could make $2,000 one week and nothing for two weeks later. So ultimately, I went into this tire plant, this B.F. Goodrich tire plant for one summer and spent 20 years there. And did you get involved with the union right away once? Yes. So when I started there in 84, it was very shortly thereafter, probably by the end of my first year that I got involved in the union, there was that individual that was there. And we talk about it in the labor movement about finding a mentor or somebody that that's already established in the labor movement reaching back and helping you through or bringing you forward. So there's a fellow there named Lee Messenger and he was instrumental in kind of encouraging me to become a union steward and kind of what we say kind of going through the ranks of the union. So by 85, I was a union steward and it was a 1,1100 tire plant place. So fairly big. We had full time officers in what have you in terms of local union. And then probably by 89, early 90s, I was on the executive board. And then by 91, the vice president and by 96 or so, the president of the local. So I did come up through the ranks, absolutely. Like it seems to be a recurring theme for most presidents and directors. Yeah, you kind of get and that always amazes me what we do because along the people you see activists, we call them in the labor movement or leadership are people that no matter what workplace they were in could probably for lack of a better word survive on their own or find their way through it. But we always laugh with interactivism and our movement that what makes us step up and want to lead and kind of helps help working people every day. One neat thing, whether it's at a plant level or what I do today, it's a very honorable work. It's frustrating. And it's a lot of time. There's a lot of conflict in it. But at the end of the day, you get to wake up every day and try to help working people or help your colleagues or your brothers and sisters in the plant that you may work. So for some reason, activists tend to do that. Or we're we always wonder what we have that some don't. But that's what a lot of us have that wanting to help. Did you get into that? That line of work because of your father or part of an influence? Yeah, no, I think it was definitely my father being a union iron worker. Now my dad was never held in office. My dad was I don't believe every union store. But my dad knew that the trade union movement, his union was a big part of being able to provide for our family. And so we lived in Kitchener, as I had said, and his union meetings, he came out of Hamilton 731, I believe his local member was. And my dad and we talk about our members going to membership meetings. So my dad would have had an hour drive to go to his membership meetings. And if my dad was probably anywhere within three hours of Hamilton, never missed a union meeting at all. So when I grew up, I had a real sense that a union was something that helped my dad and helped him with security, having wages that ultimately helped him raise a family and give us opportunity. And on top of that a little bit, just the other thing I should say about my father, and it kind of comes from the trade union side as well, around his politics. My dad loved politics, loved watching the news. And my dad was a staunch NDPer. So for many years when I was young, I'd hear this Ed Broadbent guy, this name being mentioned, Ed Broadbent, Ed Broadbent, and blah, blah, blah. For many years, I thought he was an uncle or part of the family. And till later I grew up to find out that he was an NDP leader. So I got my politics kind of from my father as well, from just years of years of hearing him talk at the table and the discussions and watch the news. Do you remember back in the day when, yes, when you were a child, at least when he was still at work, what the big issues were for him and his work? Yeah, for him a lot of it was health and safety. I mean at the time health and safety drove the agenda a lot. And as well as just in that day it was a rate of pay. They were making some real movements on rate of pay at that time. They were paid well. A travel time when you were away from your family, that you were reimbursed for travel time and lodging. So a lot of just the basic stuff that we take granted granted of as the next generation, I'll backtrack a little bit and say when I started this entire plant, I mean I walked into a collective agreement that was an inch and a half thick, if not two inches thick. It had a pension plan. It had benefits. It had cost to living. It had great vacation stuff. And again, the sense that if I didn't know some of my history you would think the employer gave it to us. But ultimately what we find out or when she learned or through my dad I found out that somebody before me, them are hard fought rights that I know we had a strike in the 70s over Kola. So for me to walk into that tire plant and have Kola, that's because some other generation took that on as a struggle in a fight. Potentially lost a home, lost money during it, but that's what they did. So anyway, so with my father I did get a sense that for sure it was around job security as union and feeling part of deciding the future. He had a voice. And throughout your career what would you consider to be your biggest fight or difficult project? I think right now throughout the career, I've been very blessed with a lot of great people that have mentored me. I've had given a lot of opportunity and I know it takes that step to walk through the door with opportunity but great mentors. But today one of the some of the battles that I see us facing are somewhat around our ability to grow the union and have the next generation or next gen or the millennium group understand that unions, the trade union movement are the framework for working people to advance. And the example I'll give is I was sitting at a video put on for our 70th anniversary and what I learned from that video is if you look at history and they say history kind of repeats itself and I was sitting there and you're seeing what working people faced in the 30s and 40s until they were, yes the industrial revolution was starting at that time as well. But what they found out was the distribution of wealth is almost like it was today. There was the working poor and the extremely rich back in the day. And what I've took from that video was wow look what history teaches us. If we come together as working people, if we unite in terms of solidarity or through the trade union movement, you know through from the 40s on it was kind of the birth of what we now refer to as the middle class. It was where working people were coming together through the labor movement to negotiate better working standards, better rights, and better pay and pension plans. So one of our struggles that I think we find today in the new kind of world is it's changed a little bit to be, and I don't want to say this negatively, but it's a bit of a me world now. If I'm doing okay, the heck with my neighbor. So that's one of the challenges we face where it's kind of a long as I'm doing okay or if you have a pension plan and I don't, you shouldn't have one instead of the idea of if you have one, how why don't I have one. So I think one of our battles and I'm so proud of the steel workers with this next gen program they've got is we're trying to find ways and understand our next generation to be the next generation of leaders, connect with them, teach them our history and if history repeats themselves, we have achieved so much as working people in terms of coming together behind whatever union it may be, the steel workers union, the labor movement as a whole. So that's one of the biggest challenges I find is reaching out to the future generations, the next generation is to explain to them that this is fragile what we have today, and there's a tax on our movement on our union every day from, you know, the rich conglomerates and governments that lack the willpower to protect us and that it's so important that they take their union and be part of it and participate in the nurtured and fight for it. That's one of the biggest struggles we face today as well as the next thing that we face, I'll say there's two right now in terms of, you know, going forward is our ability to grow the union movement. You know, we have legislation that has been written basically by the corporations wearing Ontario for example that even when you get X amount of card sign, they still have a week to intimidate the workers before the vote happens at the workplace. And so our ability to grow the union with the legislation in place and again our at this point inability to connect at certain levels with some of the next generation and say the media has done such a good job at it's the union's fault it's their fault but really without us, you know, we wouldn't have had the 30s to the 80s, you know, then prosperous times and I believe too that the thing that everybody's got to come to grips with whether it be through organizing and coming together to better off everybody's lives or to be involved in your union that really at the end of the day, we're the last ones pushing back. I can tell you that Canada today, the US is difficult and some of their struggles as it is without the labour movement still pushing back, there would be no resistance and that doesn't mean we win at all but at least there's another voice to be heard. So would you say the United Steelworkers today in the continent is slowing down its rate of membership or you're saying it's a challenge so is that not that a shrinking but is it expanding slower now? Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. One of the things that the labour movement faces as a whole as well as the Steelworkers is to tend to you to grow our union and to bring people in, it creates us in sectors, it creates leverage and in strength and bargaining as we bring sectors in and the world's changing. I mean we have to acknowledge that some of this strong industrial revolution that I just talked about that created a lot of the labour movement, them jobs are wrongfully and shamefully being exported overseas with poor trade deals and no protection so yes we are losing, we have lost jobs, our members and the economy is growing in different sectors, for example the security sector is a huge growing sector and we've got about in District 6 about 9,000 members in it. 10 years ago we wouldn't have or 15 years ago we wouldn't have but as the economy shifts, job shifts, you know it's important that we try to continue to keep our unions strong, build our membership and find ways to help those that need the union. Now today you were talking about outsourcing, there's outsourcing internationally but there's also outsourcing within the country for example if the union has, I don't know, has a unionized hydro company many of the things they can do within that company can be contracted out I guess. Do you see any issues or do the United Steel workers have often encounter issues with this outsourcing or do they have to deal with sometimes groups who work for the companies that they represent that aren't represented at all or that are represented by another union? Yeah well there's no doubt about it as most employers attempt to take less responsibility for their employees or have less of them I guess I'll say. Outsourcing is a huge issue whether they be contracting work out or not buying their supplies or some of the raw materials from down the road they're outsourcing overseas so as we bargain at a lot of our bargain tables one of our major issues traditionally is around contracting out contracting out and what work should stay in house and when is there the need to contract out and then you see that competition even play out at a different level that's at a plant level historically at one time if I work for company X we used to compete against company B for you know the marketplace more and more our members are being faced with if we're owned with company X that we've got to compete with their company X in Mexico their company X in Russia their company X in in Indonesia and that's where the investment dollars going so when these trade deals take place if there's not a level playing field that let's be frank we can't compete at three dollars an hour but at the end of the day people got to understand or come to want to figure out what does Canada look like what do you want Canada for your kids and grandkids who are we as a nation and what do we believe in so if we believe in a that everybody should have an opportunity to work raise a own a home raise a family retired dignity we go right back to these trade deals not only do you got to be very cautious it's a global economy accept that they're going to happen but trade deals that work for Canada or North America trade deals that protect some of our sectors I mean we're facing right now in the steel industry three of our big steel industry plants are in CCAA the verge of not having steel plants now there's some others in Canada but these are three big players are three big plants and we're we're having we're on the verge of losing them in Canada possibly losing them and I ask you as this grows what's a nation without a steel industry how do you have a strong infrastructure without a steel industry how do you support the auto industry without a steel sector the steel sector in Ontario or sorry in Canada supports 20,000 jobs and 120 indirect jobs and they're all relatively paid well and when that's and what that means is strong communities you look at Sioux you look at Nantico you look at Hamilton this is more about than just the plant and the workers themselves it's the communities we build around them and the ability to have health care and pay pay for the schools so anyway so there's there's that there's that level of competition as well and until we find a way to have trade deals that are in workers best interest and most importantly the trade deals we can sign are one thing but then have the rules of engagement for enforcement I mean as far as I understand it a lot of the times in the US at least the unions can raise issues around poor trade deals which we're not even entitled to in Canada but there has to be so much damage done before we win the trade case that you think really so we've now won the trade case but we just lost you know 40,000 more jobs so I just think the offshoring of jobs the global economy isn't working for Canadians isn't working for our next generation and we need to somehow fix it to level the playing field for working people let me ask you this is a recurring theme and a lot of the interviews I've done through the past year and that's it's kind of seen as a shame that a lot of these natural resource companies especially if you look at the mining industry that are now no longer Canadian been bought out or no longer exist but if you look at you know Stelco the fast goal is these big companies Steele for example but also companies now that still exist but are now owned by Rio Tinto or Valle or Arsalaumetal so how to what's your take on that from a labor no I think I think the point on having foreign takeovers of once were Canadian operations be at the mining sector is very troublesome I mean the ship has left the port now but we do see a huge difference these are conglomerate companies that they operate in many different countries and at one time if it was a Canadian operation in the Canadian community they played a part in the community a lot of the HR people lived in the community they supported the community now I believe the more and more whether it's the Rio Tinto's the the Valle's the the US Steel's the SR's that it's a different playing field because they don't have the the stake the skin in the game as the working people do in the community I mean somebody in some other location will make a decision on investment we now know that a lot of these bigger corporations they'll move their upper management every two to three years because they don't want them having relationships with the workforce and getting connected and wives get wives and husbands getting to know each other that they don't want that so I think that that thing of having so many industries taken over by foreign companies is troublesome at the heart for sure now could you speak a bit about the 1995 merger of you know still workers with the rubber you know rubber workers yeah so in 1995 we merged with the steel workers and I can tell you we were a very proud union we were the United rubber workers and at one time probably just entire plants alone 500,000 members just in producing in the tire sector and by 1995 a lot of the companies were starting to head overseas we've seen Firestone which was an American company bought by a Japan company Bridgestone Firestone we've seen the BF Goodrich plant that I came bought by Michelin a France owned company and so what took place there is we were in really tough bargaining with Bridgestone Firestone us as a plant in Kitchener we're at the bargain table with Michelin at the time and we didn't because again from job loss off showing plants being shut down we didn't have the resources to take on this world these conglomerate companies as the United rubber workers we're very fortunate that we went to you know the discussions happened and we were going to merge with the steel workers union we had a conference on that to join them and I can tell you all the Canadians that came from Canada to go down as delegates to vote supported the merger we were excited and as I said we were at the bargaining table then when this was going on and we went from a Michelin company that thought they were going to attack us and take us on because they quite frankly knew that our strike and defense fund had I believe 16 million dollars and back in the day I believe the steel workers had 160 million in and today that's up around 360, 340 something like that but when we came back after the merger convention the attitude from the company changed and we were able to reach a collective agreement so the history personally for me has been a wonderful experience and I got to tell you there's never been probably a better merger than I I believe is the rubber workers able to join the steel workers and at that point the steel workers were really starting to do a lot in the global economy global allies and that was so important in the industry I came out of because as I said these companies now are worldwide companies they weren't just US companies or Canadian companies the other thing I'll tell you that was going on there was once an auto pack and you basically had to have so many plants in Canada if you want to sell tires in Canada type deal and and as these went away and as the as the offshorings started to happen from a society or a Canadian economy that once had a tire plant from every company in and somewhere in Canada I came out of an area with two or three tire plants they're all gone now they're all gone if there's one Goodyear plant and two Michelin plants left down east but bottom line is and I'll say this till I pass they use the money in North America to build to make money off us to set up their plants overseas and then shut us down and you can put a lot of tires on a boat so it's a huge struggle for for us right a sector that we still have some some members quite a few members actually in the US and we're doing a heck of a time protecting them and you'll see if you look one of the reason ways we're protecting them is constantly having to take on trade cases from the offshoring dumping of tires now if we can move on just a few social questions first one is the presence or absence of women drop and ask people and this would be more regarding the United Steelworkers or your your experience in in labor and so throughout your career how present or absent have women been and how has that changed yeah no and I think it comes I'm going to talk about my personal experience and and I think it's somewhat reflective of what was had been going on in the time so I come out of a tire plant I started 1984 they didn't hire a woman in that tire plant till 1990 so you could see the 40 year history of where women for whatever reason weren't hired in a tire facility because you had to be this size and this strong and blah blah so and I think that was the same in somewhat a lot of other sectors which you know wasn't the way to do it and there was no need for it but for some reason it was seen as the norm then like mining for the longest time women yeah mining would be cause disasters if they went on yeah it's exactly and then it was as you see in the introduction a lot of the manufacturing and the resource sector of women being hired I believe that I can tell you the Steelworkers for sure and most most other unions are trying to kind of catch up it's hard to make up for 30 years but I can tell you through our women's committee action I mean I just came last month from an international women's conference with a thousand women from all over our union you know leaders leaders in their locals and as well as some of the stuff we do in the district around women's committees throughout the district our district six women's committee you know that we support it and these are women from all different sectors that come together to kind of continue to push for women's issues women's rights but more importantly what I've told them and sometimes under we have a very historic structure right and some of it are elected positions but I always tell women in our union that you know what if women over time would have just waited till it was given to them they wouldn't have got it you need to reach out and get it and I'll do whatever I can to support you achieving your goals so I try to tell women don't be pushed back don't say well that we don't do that or that's not what we did challenge challenge challenge you were never given anything get up and take it so anyways I can tell you that more and more women are entering you know are being involved in union do we have as many as we want absolutely not I can tell you and this probably doesn't play out well but here's a reality in today's world women still rear the kids more than men not always and I understand two people are juggling jobs and what have you but ultimately we find and I think the statistics would show it women are more likely to get involved in their union probably in their mid to late 30s or early 40s where men have historically got involved in the union probably in the early 20s so and that's just that society thing I'm not saying that always happens but if you see a lot of women they say you know what I'm going to do the secure thing with my kids for a while going to get involved in the union but wait till they get more onto school or whatever so I think we them are some barriers that we've got to figure out and at events is a daycare that we offer but I do tell you that in our in our union and if you do surveys sorry you do surveys women are more up to join a union than a man is and so there there's a lesson to be heard there why we need women in our union and leaders in our union and I always tell the story I'm honorary member on our district's women's committee from years ago when I was an activist and I always kid them you pick 10 men I'll pick five women and we'll kick your ass nice now I'll I'll also ask this question I don't know if you've worked a lot with aboriginal communities but if that ties somehow to some companies or some cases you've worked with and if if you can tie it to the natural resource sector I don't know if you yeah yeah so so I historically not I have not a whole lot of experience working with aboriginal communities but since I've been director I've been very fortunate we just had our conference at the zoo and the zoo there's several communities up there and we were able to bring them invite them learn from them share ideas with them let them know who we are as well as I recently so we are starting to make those connections we want to make those connections but we don't want to be seen as just the union is there today because there's a resource up the road that we're looking at part of that's not what we're about it's been and I'm coming to it late I can tell you the steelworkers have had relationships for years district three we've done some wonderful stuff in district three Kenny Newman might have talked about a huge summit we just had I believe in Winnipeg where we brought indigenous and aboriginal people in from all over to to share experiences learn from each other recently I was in Voizys Bay it's our valley operation and we do impact agreements there and we we're starting to really have a great relationship with our Inuit and Inuit folks there to try to work together to challenge some of the things that problems they're facing and the problems that we face because we see a lot of our values or what we're trying to achieve for working people broadly or for them what they're trying to achieve with their communities we can work together and they mirror a lot so I don't have a whole lot of experience I'm learning as we go but I'm excited about the future because I think on so many levels we are starting to connect and see and have each party understand the goals and I think we have so many values together that I think our future is bright working together since the beginning of your career and and looking at it today what what issues you consider have been pretty much solved you know that that really have been or eradicated in a way wow you know um problems eradicated I sometimes close I'm not I'm not sure um that's a great question not sure the answer because I'll tell you why and I go back to my mom my mom says everything goes in a cycle Marty so at times I think we may have thought we've eradicated certain issues within the workplace um but then they seem to come back in different forms and whatever so one example would be that we really are proud as a union and as the steelworkers union and in health and safety and and how we've brought that to to um to our members and to communities and but then when you stop there you think the trouble we're having with our west ray legislation and yet a CEO hasn't you know done jail time yet we haven't read the recent ruling that one may go to jail all the work we've had to do and stop our killing campaign over the last several years where we've looked back at the legislation said the legislation is written perfectly but it's around enforcement so um I'm not sure there's anything that we can say that we've really accomplished and that won't come back because I can tell you at one time we you know with harassment there's discrimination we've do so much work in that area but it's still a problem it's a new problem called bullying it's the cyber side of it you know violence against uh women still exist so I I think it's pushing the yardsticks forward I mean in terms of some simpler issues maybe not social issues over time on certain days stat holidays certain level of a working environment that we can for sure have a say in the workplace your union can always provide you um but I'd be hesitant to say that we could just say this is a success story and will never happen again because I think as we we roll through and as the global economy changes and players change we seem to go back to fighting some of the same fights we fought for years yeah well like it was said if you stop fighting then it's when it starts to go backwards yeah I guess it's always yeah a positive struggle yeah um all right um um so yeah we're we're almost done are there any um any kind of big cases you booked on or parts of your career that that you think are worth mentioning that we haven't um no I don't even know I like I mean the job I do is a job of you know I mean I just say uh maybe what I would say is one of the things that I'm very fortunate enough as I said before that I get to work uh I'll wake up every day and fight for social justice and working people on their behalf and when you drill right down do it and it is kind of what and we try to engage our rank and file members and more importantly the public because really what we're about we're the leading edge of what do you want your Canada to be like what are our values what are our beliefs and if these are our values and our beliefs and things we want to make sure that we have or gain for our kids and grandkids I can tell you there's no greater organization if any organization at all that can do it other than the trade labor movement so uh I just hope over the next time as we engage our next gen and I don't know where rock bottom is where our kids have to hit but at some point we do rally again around this idea of coming together as working people as citizens to advance all our interests against corporate greed or the corporate elite catches on again or becomes cool again because I know it works it's worked for my father it's worked I was very fortunate that way and it can work in the future so I guess I'll end it as I'm very hopeful for a future that the kids in the next generation will understand how we were successful it wasn't through individualism it was through coming together as a group and demanding social justice and when we tie the trade union movement in what type of Canada we want I think they fit quite quite close together and we can achieve those goals through the labor movement and I just hope somehow some way and I'm positive we will engage the future generations to to join the labor movement because it has so many potentials speaking of that I'll finish on that if you were speaking to someone much younger like a student for example someone about to start their you know their career and they they were thinking maybe if we can tie this into thinking of going into the natural resource industry slash maybe labor what piece of advice would you give them in just in terms of working there yeah or yeah thinking of a future where they could get involved with mining yeah I would tell you if and I have a son that I would I would you know I do harp on him a little bit I think for Canada the mining sector is the future of our country we do know we are mining rich or sorry resource rich country and I think they and I can tell you our that sector has done very well in terms of wages benefits and pension we do know that sometimes they're remote mines and it means you know you know living in a remote community are flying in flying out but I can tell you they're great jobs to have they're fulfilling jobs to have there's always the safety of element no matter what you do and mining continues today to still be a dangerous sector although we do wonderful things in health and safety but I would have no issue with encouraging my son or my daughter to work in the resource sector being mining or any part of that I think it is one of the stronger parts of our economy for the future well thank you how good thank you