 I'm going to go ahead and get started. So my name is Allie Whitworth. I'm just going to tell you a little bit about myself. My husband's back there with my little baby. He may make some noise. So I now currently am a stay-at-home mom. But before this, I was the creative producer at Bethel Music. I worked in the label. And I've been working there since 2014, so a little while. And it was really great. I love it. I miss it a lot. But it's pretty hard to do that role and stay and be a mom. So I'm not going to do that right now. But anyways, that's kind of it. We came from, my husband and I came from IHOP before we went out to Bethel. We moved mostly for him because he was offered a job out there. So anyways, but I love this stuff. I love being a part of the creative and the church. And I love just to clarify, I definitely don't do graphic design or anything like that. All of the people who were on my team did that stuff. I just got the wonderful privilege of helping lead those people. But anyways, I did want to ask, how many of you do this for your job? How many of you, it's part of your job to run creative or do shoots or whatever that looks like. Great. And then how many of you do it for your church? Well, OK. Yes, in some way. OK, great. I was just wondering. So for team collaboration and creative execution, there is so much that goes into it, especially when you're working with creatives. I consider myself a creative as well. But I think the people who are creating those actual visuals, I always call them the creatives. But it's really fun to get to be a part of the team that actually creates those visuals. And something I've learned along the way is there's a lot of emotion that goes into creating. And a lot of that actually affects your team dynamics, especially because so much of creating has you have to be vulnerable to create. And when you're doing that with people, that means you have to be vulnerable with people. And that can be messy. And it can be scary. But I really love it. But yeah, I wanted to start a little bit about just some of the practicals of creative execution. I'm going to talk in terms of a video shoot or photo shoot, just because that's primarily what I put my hands to. But I believe it can be applicable to a lot of things. But for Bethel Music, when we approach an album, there's hundreds of assets we have to create. Posts, videos for radio, videos for obviously social media, or whether it's promos or interviews, photos for the artwork, or there's a variety of things. And when we're given that wonderful task, we are given one set of budget. And we have a certain number of team members that we're allowed to use per project. And there's just a lot of details that go into it. But the thing that I've found most important is actually before you're going into a shoot or you're a few days of creating, it's so important not to just jump into prepping for it a week before. I would prep for it a month out. I mean, a month actually is very stressful. But it probably ideally would be three to six months, depending on the size of the project. There's so much importance in preparing for a shoot when you're devoting days to creating. If you're not prepared when going into those days, there's so much that you can miss. And there's such a swirl you can get into because you don't have this foundation of a schedule or foundation of your budget itemized. And really preparing is actually what lays the foundation for you to actually be creative. And the preparing side is actually less fun. It's more having to do with getting the exact details of a schedule. When I create a schedule, I make sure I have down to you're going to eat from this time to this time. And we're going to capture this post for 15 minutes. We're going to capture this video for five minutes, this part of a video for whatever. And it kind of goes into those details, which if you all have liked here, I can go into more. But I think if you don't get as prepared and organized as you can before a shoot, you're going to pay for it in the long run, whether that is you look back and you didn't get everything you need, what your original vision was didn't actually come through, or you realized that you missed it. And you're going to end up having to go over what budget you had because you have to go back and capture. And that's really hard to do, especially when you've been, if you're commissioned by your church to do this and they're like, we have $3,000. That's all we can give you. And you've got all these grand ideas and a wonderful team that's got all these ideas. And so you try to pull this off. And when you hit a point of going under over budget, it's kind of dishonoring. I say that. I've gone over budget. But it can be dishonoring to the people who have commissioned you. That's why it's so important to really make sure you're prepared in that way. And then on top of that, being prepared with your schedule and your budget is really important actually for your team and for yourself when you're actually going into creating during those few days. Because if you don't have that all laid out and prepared, your head space is going to be filled with trying to figure out a schedule or trying to figure out, do I have money to say yes for us to leave for an hour to go do this new idea that just came up or to go buy flowers for something? If you don't know exactly in those moments, then it's just going to create chaos in your mind. And having chaos in your mind when you're creating is just, I feel like it really squashes what you're actually capable of doing and what your team is capable of doing. If there's not the space of like you've thought everything through, you've prepared when a problem comes up or when you're, let's say you have like prepared and you say, I have an example. On Josh Baldwin's shoot, we went to the White Sands and we had prepared for it for five months or so. This was my first big shoot where I was kind of leading as producer. And our team at home, our creative director, and our CEO, they were kind of sending us off with this vision. We were going to capture this beautiful landscape thing in the White Sands with these horses. We were going to have like five to 10 horses. And I had worked it all out. We had it figured out and everything was prepped. And then the first day we get there, and these horses were literally the like, they were the center of everything. Like the landscape was beautiful, but the horses were the story. And when we get there, we realize that there was the, they actually call him the Wrangler. The Wrangler who was giving us these horses, he was actually breaking the law. And we found out through the National Park people that were there that he, they had actually been on the hunt for this guy. And they were like, oh, you have contact with him. We need you to like, we need you to give us your contact. We're trying to catch him. And quickly we realized these horses weren't gonna work out. And we had just like spent, we went like all in. All of our budget was, it given to these, we had three days in the White Sands. And that's all we had. And we were sent off by our leaders like, this is the plan. And it was like, it was great. I mean, I loved it. But then all of a sudden it was me, two videographers, our graphic designer, who was also kind of our like visual art director. And our audio guy who's just, just five of us, and Josh. And we were kind of left there to try to like, figure out what to do. And we had to, basically we had to come up with a story that had to do with just the landscape. And it was pretty wild because I remember when we were like sitting down talking, realizing it wasn't gonna work. If I hadn't have prepared, even though like my now schedule was like out the door, if I hadn't have prepared for it, there's no way I could have actually pulled off creating a new plan. Because I was so in touch, not just me, like the rest of my team was as well. We were so in touch with what we needed to pull off, like the number of assets we needed, how we were gonna get it, that we were able to actually like, when we came up with the new plan, actually fill the spaces that we now had to change. And honestly, it was one of my most favorite things to ever be a part of. I remember you can just feel God's on something, even though it is like, it makes zero sense. Whenever the horses didn't work out, something felt right about it. And so we just kind of like waited. And we kind of came up with these plans and we really just followed where our piece was. And we kind of just leaned into feeling peace on kind of focusing on acoustic videos. And then the big thing we were gonna do was our first music, it was our Bethel music, first music video. And it was to a song, that I love a song, Abraham, that was almost eight minutes long, which is very long for a video, especially when the horses are the center. And now we only have Josh and really pretty white sands. But I remember we were, we kind of came together as a team and we were like kind of didn't know what to do, but we just felt something right. And so we kept feeling like let's just follow where we feel peace. Let's just follow that because that's kind of been the only thing that's felt consistent. And I remember the very last day, we'd captured like beautiful acoustic videos. And I'm not kidding you, the days that were there, like the sunrises and sunsets, each of them were so uniquely different, which was so what we needed. Cause visually it was so easy to get very boring. But the last day we were there, we knew there was something we were missing. Like we were like everybody's gonna be tired of just seeing like this pretty sky. And all of a sudden we were like standing around, we decided to pray. And we were talking about just dropping doing the music video and going back to the team and being like it didn't work. And when we were praying, all of a sudden we felt this like strong move from the Holy Spirit of like someone is gonna get saved from the Saber Ham video. It's like all we felt, all we knew. And so you're like, okay, like what do I do with that? We still have to create something. I don't know what to do. And within that same time, all of a sudden this like the wind starts picking up and there's this crazy sandstorm that comes through. Painful, found out. But cause it was like, I mean, the winds were like 40, 50 miles per hour and sands like hitting you in the face. But we, basically there was just this like crazy sandstorm that came through and all of a sudden we decided, let's just film this. Let's film what's happening. Josh, tough it out, walk through the sand. And as we were filming, it was crazy the way it happened. There was just this like, it was like the, like in the song as it would grow. Every time there was this like whirlwind of like sand that would kind of like come up and go around Josh or something was happening. And it started to feel like we were following what God wanted us to do. And which is so wild. I would do that every time if I could. I tried to do it every time. But at the end of it, I remember us all like kind of taking a step back and we realized like, if we hadn't of like been as prepared as we were and if we hadn't have come together in the way that we did, there's no way we would have seen what he was doing. And I think that, you know, it's very, I mean, I'm sure a lot of you are very detailed oriented. I would hope. And it's easy to go into like what it takes to pull something like that off. But there's just so much importance on putting the value in preparing, but then also holding your hands open as soon as you're there. Even when something doesn't go wrong. Even when, you know, you still have courses line up. Still holding your hands open and like following where peace is. I strongly, strongly believe that God's moving in a new way. And I strongly believe it's through the arts and through music. And I strongly believe that people are gonna be healed when they see a graphic. They're gonna be healed when they see a video or whatever. So God's gonna do the impossible through the arts. And I think there's such an importance on listening to him as a creative because he wants to move in a new way. And I don't think we've seen all that he will do through us. And there's something I wanted to say about that. Yeah, when our work is expressing God through creativity, the most important thing to remember is that God cares more about what we're doing than we do. He wants to move through us and he wants to work through us, even down to the details, even down to where we're gonna stay. I remember we had to, Corey's shoot, we had this whole thing lined up. I'm not kidding guys, every time we've approached a shoot, something happens, like something goes wrong. And to me it's just confirming even more of what God wants, like God's doing something and the enemy's afraid of it. And so there's like things that pop up that you just have to solve. But I remember when we arrived for a Corey's shoot, we were in Ashland, Oregon and we arrived at our Airbnb and we had planned filming everything in this Airbnb area. It was like attached to this really great land and had these like really pretty trees. And as soon as we get there, not just myself, me and the team, there was the creepiest vibes we were getting from this place. And like the longer we stayed there, the more and more we were like, this is not, we can't be here. And we'd been there for 45 minutes and I just paused. Everyone was kind of like unloading stuff, but unsure. And it was like a few hours before Corey got there and Gabriel was with him, his son. And I was kind of sensitive to that as well just because I know the importance of environments. Anyways, but I remember I paused. I kind of just like took a minute and stepped away from the team and I was like, I just need to sit for a second. And I sat and I just asked the Holy Spirit. I was like, Lord, are we supposed to stay here? And I've never heard so clearly get out. Like I heard him say get out. I was like, okay, all right, we're leaving. And so I just had everybody pack everything up. And as we're driving into town 10 minutes later, we found a different Airbnb. An hour later, we found the new spot we were filming. And like the another hour, we had everything fall back into place. And it was better than what we had planned. And it's just crazy, stuff like that always always happening. But yeah, I think there's so much and we've seen like since then like from those videos and stuff we go through the comments and we read and we've seen God's doing stuff through them. And it's not just the big stuff you hear about on stage. It's little stuff that we're seeing God do. And it's amazing. So what you do is important. Like the creativity that comes from inside of you is actually God wants to use it. He wants to use your art. He wants to use your ideas. On top of that. What's beautiful as well is, I think he wants us to do it together. I think he wants us to do it as a team. There, one of the things I loved about kind of leading this like group of five people is everyone was so individually creative and very different in their like styles, like, which was beautiful when it came to coming together, it's not as easy. But I remember there's this one time with our graphic designer, he was kind of like, he had created the original vision for, what was it, what shoe was it? I think it was Josh's shoe again. He had created the original vision. Oh no, Brian and Jen's shoes. He created the original vision for it and all of a sudden it started changing and it was right changes. Like we could feel that it was right, but he was like panicking a little because his name was attached to it. Like people are gonna think I'm creating this. He kind of started to panic and I remember having conversation with him and realized that it actually came down to, he was afraid that if it didn't look the way he wanted it to, then his value was less than he was afraid of what people would think essentially and we kind of started talking a little bit and then he realized that there's, oh well, he kind of like, we realized there was a confrontation with a different designer that was there as well and he realized that actually all of that insecurity was kind of stemming from that and so they kind of came together, had a conversation and there was a resolve which was great and then all of a sudden once that was out of the way, it was like all of a sudden they valued each other and the shoot, what it became was better than what we thought originally. And it's kind of crazy how it seems like every time you go into a shoot, you think you have it all figured out and then God does something and then it's better than you could have ever done. I think it just confirms even more how God's wanting to move through us and how it's actually not us, it's like his glory, his design, his art, like he's wanting to use us and it's not just about giving people a good feeling or encouragement, which is great but he really is wanting to do miracles and I really believe there's a new wave coming and I think he wants to do it through art and I've seen him do it through art. I think something else, I remember when I was growing up my mom always told me God never withholds a good thing from us, he never withholds a good thing and I always just kind of knew that so I never doubted it and when it came to our team, when I first kind of stepped into this role I was very insecure and very like I'm not qualified, like I worked at a retail store before this and then I've just kind of been helping since, like why are you putting me in this, over these other people who are like, I don't even know how to describe what white balance is or like Adobe is a thing, right? I don't know. And I remember just feeling so insecure and I heard the Lord so clearly just be like, hey I'm not withholding a good thing from you and I'm not withholding a good thing from them and then I kind of just like settled into that and I realized like there's every scenario you go into when you're creating, God's like fully prepared you even if you're facing fear even if you're facing whatever it is like disconnection with your team or whatever, all the people that are there, God wanted there, he wants those people there and as soon as you start like realizing the value of that and how each person, no matter their qualification, no matter if they came from LA and they're just like great designer or they came from some town you've never heard of and this is their first designing job, their value is equal and there's a reason God put them there and I think that's really important in team collaboration when you're creating together to know that each person's voice is actually valuable and each idea is valuable though every idea won't be used, that's not realistic. It's important to like actually listen and come together and like bring in everybody to make idea or to like create because if you leave out the person who's just afraid to say something because they don't feel qualified, they may be holding the key to like opening exactly what you needed for your creative project and yeah, your team needs to understand that there's equal value among everyone. It doesn't mean that there aren't roles or that someone doesn't know or that like if somebody who doesn't know how to use a camera is like, I feel like I'm supposed to be filming this. You don't give that, that's not what you do but you definitely listen to whatever it is they come up with like on the Josh shoot, whenever we were like all talking about what to do our audio guy who never, not intentionally he just never speaks into our creative stuff. It was his idea to like really focus on our acoustic videos and they ended up being like my favorite thing that we've done. But it's just because we all of a sudden came together and we're like, even though we have like different roles and like yes, I'm over you, whatever, like our voice is valued and our voice is equal in this scenario. I think that's really important when you're creating because if somebody is in your group that doesn't feel like they belong there then they're never gonna say anything and you will never find out what they're actually capable of and that's really important too when you're working with creatives because I think a lot of times the people who are creative are really in touch with their emotions and a lot of times have a lot of insecurities and if you don't like come together and be vulnerable then I don't think you'll ever really reach your full potential. There's this verse that I love and it's from the passion of translation which is also amazing but it's Ephesians 2-10. It says, we have become his poetry a recreated people that will fulfill the destiny he has given each of us for we are joined to Jesus, the anointed one. Even before we were born, God planned in advance our destiny and the good works we would do to fulfill it. I love that verse because I feel like it just really solidifies how he's wanting to use us through creativity. He's called us, he's called us his poetry. So yeah, I think he's speaking and yeah, he wants to use us and he wants us to do it together and I believe and I want for the church to be the next creative movement. I want the world to look at the church and be like, oh, look what they're doing. They're awesome. But yeah, anyways, I wanted to open up for some questions. I'd love to answer anything if anybody has any. Yeah. How many people do you have with control? Yeah, totally. How many is there a standard of how many cameras? Yeah, it depends on the budget so which depends on the project. And never enough people is the answer. We, as standards, probably about five people. Somebody operating in the producer role and then a DP who also can be the creative director. And then we like to have, just because of the way it functions with our team, our art director, he also happens to be a photographer so that works out really nice. So we use him as our photographer but he also is kind of like a lead director there. And then an audio person and one other camera person. And then the artist or whoever is there or talent. But yeah, that's definitely never enough but usually it comes down to budget. We would love to have more. But, and also, we have, we never are just capturing one acoustic video. We are given this one budget which usually comes down to, okay, we have to spend it all during these three days because we have to rent gear for whatever and we only have three days. And that means we have to capture everything. And so we're always capturing more than just one thing. But yeah, that's about it. And not everyone's like, oh, I'm only touching a camera. It's like everyone's actually coming together and just doing everything to pull it off. And being proactive and helping. And yeah, yeah. From the original thought, okay, we're gonna take this video or this song and make it into a music video. Do you have an efficient general step-by-step process for what you're gonna do first up until you're actually there shooting a video? Yeah, we always try to. That's kind of actually been an ever-changing process. And actually what I found is actually it kind of is always dependent on who our main artist is. Some artists want to be way more involved. Or whoever's vision it is, whether it's you could apply it to a pastor or whoever. Depending on their level of involvement, that kind of affects the process because if they're the ones that gave the vision and they want to see it through, then they need to be really involved through the process, especially because usually this conversation happens six months out of it actually happening. And it's so easy when you're given, the team here is like, hey, this is the vision. And then you have like six creatives that are like, yeah, there's like all these different ways we could go. And by the end they come back if it's a person who's like super wanting to be disconnected, they come back most likely it's not anything like the vision made originally had in plan or in store. But so that is a huge factor is whoever is giving this vision, they really need to be involved. And if they can't be involved, then there needs to be the trust to the team that they will accomplish kind of the heart of the vision. So not necessarily like the look or orange versus purple. They, that's kind of actually something that when it came to the vision that I as a producer kind of took on as my responsibility to help like guide the creatives and just be a reminding voice of like, hey, remember this is originally what they said is this new idea accomplishing that. So it's hard to give you like an exact, like this is exactly what we do because it constantly is changing. But we did always have check-ins, like our team would kind of like do hear the vision, kind of do like two to three brainstorming meetings. Usually the art director would go off and kind of create one to three major ideas. It was usually only over one if it was very clear what the vision was. And then we kind of come back and that's when we would meet with the original, like the stakeholder so to speak and find out if this is what they wanted or whatever. So we'd have like probably two, depends on how much feedback you get, but it's lovely if it's just one meeting they're like, yeah, that's it. And then we can kind of like go from there. But once you kind of get that sign off of like, yes, this is the vision that we want and go for it, then it just becomes internally with our team, kind of like the practical details, finding out exactly what your video person needs, exactly what your photo person needs. Yeah, that's kind of the best answer I can get. But yeah. I feel like a lot of times with creatives or even like portion, like artists in general, like volunteers or whatever they're there, can be a lot of leaning in and really emphasis on something that feels right, feels like a word. And then oftentimes we'll kind of put it in the hands of like, this is the preacher, the pastor, like in that say of the word and the word and then that's really like, yeah, that's, they know that stuff, but what I feel is good or I feel like the word is being like, yeah, I think guys as a team, like how do you just encourage like, hey, like, you have something, like there's a passion, there's something that the intention of the word gave it that you believe or think you can really inspire this to these things, but also, what is rooted in the word really is, you know, like combine those two and not getting a one too far. Right, you don't want it to get weird, yeah. And also that you're not, you know, like a marriage of like, being an ability, but then what I feel is like, control and idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just want to make sure I hear your question right. Are you saying like, you, how do you keep like, the team from going off into this like, world of- Right, so like, to not just- Feel. To actually, yeah, to really reign in, like, no, like yes, you have this gift, but there's more than just like, I feel, I really don't, but what's rooted in some words, is through this foundation, like, it is, let's build on that. Yeah, I think it's in that, I think it's really important that you're, whoever's leading the team, is really strong in that. Really strong in knowing, you know, like, one, what our goal is, like, what is our actual goal? We're not just creating anything, we actually have a purpose, and having somebody who's like, very, very anchored in what that is. And then I think it's really important as well to know that, the Holy Spirit is equally, like, feel as much as he is practical. And I think it's just, there's just as much wisdom in being like, I love what you're feeling, and this is great, I don't know that, but this is actually what we need to do. And we have three days, we can't change it right now. And honestly, I think that there's, it's very clear in those moments when it is, when the feels are right. It's very clear when it's right. And that doesn't mean you don't listen to all the feels, but I think when your whole team understands that like, hey, we're gonna all communicate ideas and not every idea is gonna be taken, not every feeling you're gonna have is gonna be taken. I think it, like, if you view it as, I think it's really easy to view like, the emotional creative, like they wouldn't understand practical, or they wouldn't understand the structure, but that's actually not true. They may find it, but that's not true. And I think it's really wise to actually always just keep an open dialogue of like, bringing them back to the practical. And that was, I mean, my whole role was practical. Like I wasn't the one that was the creating person. Like I was the one that was like, hey, I love this idea. You have 30 minutes to do it, which is great. And I actually, I love boundaries for creative because I actually think it makes you more creative. You know, I love that, you know, people will have this $10 million idea. That's yeah, amazing, but you were given $5,000 and that's all you can do with it. And you know, I, again, I think the Lord, the Lord knows your practicals. And I think if there's ever situations you run into and you don't know what, how to respond to a person or like guide the team like back onto the right path, I think it's really important that you just know that the Lord actually knows and he'll tell you, he'll tell you what to do. And you know, he doesn't like throw you out there to be by yourself. Is that kind of, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In that vein of what you're saying. Yeah. Practical and creative. Then how do you, even as a leader, how do you remain unoffendable and how do you also convey your points to people that you want them to be unoffendable as well? Totally. So I have to give this, like you have this much rope in the sand, so you just want this, but we have this exertion. Yeah. Everyone is ready on it. Yeah, totally. Okay. It takes time and it takes building with a team and it's probably going to be pretty bumpy at first. I think what's important for you is to actually be, as the leader of the team, is to kind of be settled in, you know, if you're not going to let someone else's offense, kind of offend you or affect you. I think that's really important to keep like your heart in because if you don't, if you're leading the team and you're like easily offended by if they aren't respecting you or they aren't whatever, yes, they could be in the wrong, but if you're like quickly like this person, like they don't ever listen to me, that's not helping anything. And it's definitely not helping you. And I think it's really important to like, just constantly as the leader, remind yourself of grace, if you feel an offense come up immediately deal with it, whether you find out if you need to talk to the person or if it's just internally, if you need to like check yourself. And then when it comes to the rest of the team and then kind of learning that same thing, I think having the open dialogue of like being okay with being honest, like, hey, I think that you're offended right now. Is that right? And if they are like, hey, I just want to talk about that. Like did I say something or did, you know, whatever just kind of bringing everything to light because if it's like, you just dance around a fence, it's just going to get worse and it's going to explode at some point and it's way better to just immediately address it. And often it's usually like something pretty minimal or some kind of misunderstanding that happened that can be easily addressed. And sometimes it's something that you've done wrong and it's so important to like be humble about it and be like, yes, I'm so glad that we have this conversation or whatever, please tell me if I do it again. Like don't think that I'm like, I want to, if you have to change, I want to change or I want to do something. I think openness is huge in being able to like do this as a team because so many emotions are involved in creating and especially if you're coming together as a team it's your job or whatever, you know, you kind of like forced to work with these people. You know, it's not necessarily happening immediately out of friendship. It's important to establish those like open lines of communication. Hello, yes. Hey, how you doing? Yeah. You were probably around when that, I know this wasn't a metal-created project but that the reckless love when they were on the sidewalk singing to that homeless guy. Yes. So I know that wasn't, that was not a metal-created project. Yeah. But somehow that exploded that whole thing. Yeah. And so I mean, I guess you can share a little bit about how that helped to catalyze what you guys were doing. Cause I'm also trying to think of how you, when you have like a zero budget. Yeah. How do you make something cool happen, you know? Nope, I get it. Yeah. Well, that was nothing that we did to make that happen. That was just the Lord. We, I remember when our team first saw that video like we immediately felt like we were crying. We immediately felt the Lord on it. Y'all don't know what it is. There's this video of this girl I think singing reckless love to a homeless person on the street or it may have been a guy, I don't know. But it was like heart-wrenching. Like this guy was crying and you could tell the Lord was touching him and it was a beautiful, beautiful video. I want to go watch it again now that you brought it up. But immediately, I mean, when a moment like that happens it was, I mean, it was like kind of no question. We were like, we have to reshare this. Like we're being touched and we know that everybody else is gonna be touched by this too. So you kind of, I think like when you see something like that happen, it's the Lord a lot at the time because we couldn't have made that happen. But we like feel the Lord on it. So we were like, we need to get behind this because you know, whatever, you know, the Lord's using it. And it's easy to like get into like if we're gonna get so many likes and we're gonna get so many, whatever. And yeah, that did happen, but our purpose wasn't to grow the song. Our purpose was like, wow, people are gonna get encountered just by watching this video. So that was a sweet little kiss from the Lord. But the other side, when you have zero budget, that stuff, I think, I think the important thing to remember is like kind of immediately stepping back in like, it's great to ideate what you wanna do and like find the vision of whatever it is and kind of get ideas out on the table. But then like after you've kind of like expressed ideas and more so focused, not necessarily like, we're gonna go to the top of this building and not necessarily the details, but like kind of the heart or the feel of what you want your project to be. Whether it's like centered around, I want it outside or I want it, whatever, in the street. I think that immediately from that step, you actually step back and you look at what it is you have for your resources. And if you have no money, then that means finding the people that are surrounded by you who's willing to help. And I believe that people will show up or like resources will start like pouring out once you kind of start looking, but you have to be creative in that sense too. Like you have to start thinking like out of the box of how to pull off something and just try things. Like I, like this is a random example, but for our kids project, you have to get like a thousand permits for working with kids. And they wanted to do this shoot and I had like five days, usually getting a permit takes over a month for just one. And I knew like everything in front of me was telling me it's impossible. Like initially I was like, guys, we can't do this. This is a realistic, but I just tried. I like reached out and called one random office and happened to get like somebody who was really nice and they're like, yeah, I'll give you all these permits tomorrow. And that's not normal. And I think it's really important to just don't let your restrictions hold you back from trying, even though you may not have what is immediately what you think you need. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. When you guys are going into a project and you're stuck as a team, how do you get out of that on stuff? Like creatively stuck? Yeah. Um, I think there's a lot of times that we've been given a project and we haven't been excited about it. I mean, honestly, the kids project is a great example. Our designer is like very like edgy, cool, whatever hip likes everything non kids. And he was the one that had to design the kids album. So he was like to really struggling with feeling inspired. Which one are you referring to? The bright ones. Yeah. Trying to remember. And so he was really struggling with how to, how to like actually to create like an inspiration behind it. And what he had to do was like find the people who were inspired by it and actually spend time with those people. And I think that really helped him like get unstuck and get out of the box. He also had to get all of his ideas out. And that was kind of just him as the designer. I was a team when we've been stuck. It honestly, it's come down to us like putting a lot of ideas out there. It's very easy to all of a sudden when you're stuck want to try to fix it. And so you want to try, you like find something that you kind of are like, yeah, that could work. And then you run off. And then all of a sudden it's not feeling right. You know, and having to go back and whatever. I think those processes are really important because it kind of helps you find where you want to go. But the important thing in getting unstuck is not like secluding yourself as a team. Like not being like, let's all just not talk to each other. I think it's really important to come together. But come together intentionally. Like tell your team like, hey, we're gonna go step away like take tomorrow to kind of come up with some ideas. Next day we're coming together and we're gonna bring it all. Like we're gonna just talk about our ideas. And kind of keep doing that until you find that spark or that thing that is right. And sometimes you're in situations where you may not ever feel that like, my heart's in this. But your client or your stakeholder, pastor, whoever. If they're like, this is exactly what I want. You honor that. And you kind of follow that. I think it's really important for you to feel the spark. But that doesn't always happen. So yeah, yeah. How do you keep your team healthy and give them some value self-care? Oh, that's a great question. Yeah, personal responsibility is huge. Honest conversations. If you're the leader, I think having real honest conversations. I don't know if your team like, like when we would have a team, we'd have one-on-one connects, you know, schedule them like routinely like twice a month or once a month. And in those connects, it was like, we would write out like, hey, these are, this is what you're doing great at. And then those are some areas where we think you could grow. And that's all very like work focused. But probably like the last six months that I worked in they started adding in kind of emotional health stuff. Like addressing like, say you have somebody who like, you can tell it's just going down like a deep dark hole. And you know that it's like they, whether it's like they just need to get out of their head or something's not okay or something's not right. I think as their leader just being like, hey, I've noticed this about you. Like, are you okay? Like are you feeling hurt? Like I noticed you're kind of not really taking care of yourself and that's nothing against you. I just want to know if you're okay. I think when people hear that you care and they're seen, I think it does a whole lot for self-worth. Cause really that, you know, when people aren't taking care of themselves it's a self-worth issue. Of course, yeah, that's all right. And yeah, it's kind of, I mean, that kind of gets into the like whole emotional health world, but you touch on that in creative world anyways. So again, I think open communication is really important and not being afraid to like be somebody who can keep them accountable and not being afraid to like take that first step in the friendship or, you know, co-worker relationship. Because if they, to be honest, if they keep going down this unhealthy path, eventually it's going to affect their work. And eventually they won't be able to be a part of it anymore. And if their goal is to like be this creative, whatever, then you as their leader is to help them to meet their goal, you know? So I think that's really important too. Yeah. I have a couple, I like that question. A couple thoughts that I just had that really practical that you just started doing at the place that I worked with, like my boss, if he feels like somebody is like hitting a funk or like, I can tell you've just been really down in the last couple of days, like if it's something where you're just like feeling burnout, we'll just be like, just get out. I know it's been like 20, 30 minutes. Yeah. There's like practical little things for me to like prompt them and help. Just like a breath. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. We started taking, we called them laps around the building. Like if we like, kind of as our team, just over time we grew in like history with each other so we could tell when something was wrong, you know? And so we just kind of like like each other and be like, you need a walk. And so you just like get up and walk and be like, hey, you need to just like unload and vent a little vent. Here's the place to do it. And I think it's really important to, you know, like whenever say there's an issue with somebody like, hey, this person said this thing and I just am not doing good, da, da, da, da. Like be accountable. Bill says it so good and I can't remember how little Johnson says it, but it's really important to be like, okay, like, hey, I'm gonna connect with you next week and by then you need to talk to them. And when you see them and when you be like, hey, did you talk to them? Like how did it go? And kind of creating those kind of like accountability measures or, and that can even come with like, if they're not doing okay, you know, be like, hey, you need to spend some time with the Lord. And then like actually addressing it again. And as a leader, it's important to remember those things, you know? And that can like, like something I would do is, you know, like write in my notes, like if there's something I needed to remember with one person, like just a quick note about it. So I could just jog my memory or whatever, but yeah. Mm-hmm. So what does that look like for you to recharge? Yeah. To draw inspiration, to, you know, get away from work. What does that look like to you personally? Well, I think, I mean, quite times obviously important. But for me, I am an extrovert. So I recharge with people, but I also work with people like 24 seven. So what was really important was actually as a team, making sure that we had good moments and fun moments too, that weren't just work. So laughter is huge and being intentional about that. We would plan dinners where it's like, hey, everybody just come over for dinner and hang out. No like agenda or anything. It was just like, we might play a game or whatever. Something very easy. But that was really important, not just for the team, but for me as well. Because I think it's important as a leader to not just feel like you're like over these people, but to actually feel like you're like with them. And that's really important when you're like on these creative shoots or whatever you're doing, because if the team doesn't feel like you're an equal, then, you know, they're way more hesitant to like work and create with you. But that was really important. Family time is huge. Well, I mean, I guess the best way to describe it is really getting very intentional with your schedule. Like Tuesdays were always my day that I was like, after work, I'm going straight home and I'm spending time with my husband. Mondays, always spending time with my girlfriends. It was like, you kind of have to get really intentional about what you need personally. If you're at introvert and you need a specific kind of quiet time or specific kind of quality time with a certain person, whatever that is, you really have to take responsibility for it because it's so easy to just get caught up in the busyness and leave yourself behind, you know? And I did not do that well. I learned that the hard way, you know? It's like, you- How do you feel about it and it can be inspiring. It can be really awesome, but then it can also be like, oh my gosh, I'm so overwhelmed and I don't have a good structure to this. Like what, do you have anything to say or speak into that? Yes, I do. I think it's really, the thing that I would do when I was in those moments which happened often. Like when you're, there's like, especially when you're leading a team and everyone like is just, we had multiple projects going on at a time. So a lot of times we were working on these major things all over and it was so easy for it to overtake you. I think what I found to be really important was actually like reminding myself, I would sit at my desk and if I was feeling overwhelmed and I couldn't like actually settle my mind, I'd just start speaking in tongues and just under my breath to myself, just kind of recenter my spirit and that always quieted in my mind and I'd get to a quiet mind and then start from there and then like work down. Then I'd like start making lists and then from that list, it's kind of like I would edit my list. It's like I'd write down all of these ideas or all of these things that I felt like I was supposed to do and then pull out or just highlight the ones that I knew were priority, the ones that I knew were important and started to take everything that was in my mind and actually put it to paper and that was a huge help for me because it kind of immediately removed the question of like I'm missing something, I'm not gonna get everything done because I could see it right in front of me. And that was really, that actually is like, it's simple but that was like a really like helpful thing for me. And then on top of that knowing that because are you the one that's kind of like leading and like kind of helping, being like the center of making everything happen. Yeah. Know that the Lord's with you in that and he will give you creative ideas on how to pull everything off. Everything that it's so easy for your massive list to look impossible, but we serve a God of the impossible and he cares about those things too. And if you start to remind yourself of that and then start to believe that you'll see him do it, you'll see like all of a sudden it becomes really easy to like feel his grace on an easy decision. Like, do we stay at this place? Do we stay at this place? Do we go with this designer? Do we go with this designer? Do we, you know, whatever it is, I think it's really important to just not forget that and remind yourself of that because busy is always gonna be there. It's always gonna be busy, you know? And it's important for you to be like, to know that your piece is still here in the midst of the chaos and to pause and remind yourself of that and know that it's okay to pause. Like in the busy, it's actually one of the most valuable things to do when you can just step back and pause for a second and recenter. Otherwise you'll be a mess flying around. That's, I learned that the hard way as well. But yeah. I think that's about it. I think it was that time. Thanks guys. It was great. Thank you guys.