 Hey guys, I'm Boris. I'm a physician assistant. Today I have a real treat for those of you who follow me for PA school content. I have Elijah and Omar. Elijah just got accepted to PA school and Omar is a PA school applicant hoping to get in very shortly. So just very quickly guys can you introduce yourself Elijah first. So my name is Elijah Caparoso. I'm a recently admitted like Boris said recently admitted PA applicants or Rutgers PA program. I actually haven't started yet. I'll be starting in August. So in a couple months. So a little bit about me. I graduated from UCLA with my bachelor's and then ended up not doing so well. So then I did a master's at ASU just finished that last last year last fall, I'd say. And I guess Boris has me on the podcast just because I'm categorized as like one of those like low GPA applicants that have those miracle stories or I don't know. I guess I'd also be under that same category of non traditional considering I had my kiddo when I was a sophomore. I think I was like 19 at the time. I was pretty young. What's the kiddo's name. His name is Caleb he's upstairs right now I told him not to come down yelling because I was doing this interview so I always thought that was a good name. Nice. Well congrats I didn't know that. Yeah oh yeah I have a kiddo to a little bit more about me. A little bit more about about Elijah Omar how about you what's up with you. Alright. Well thank you guys for having me on my name is Omar. I'm a HIV counselor for the public health department here at LA County. And I've been working in HIV public health for the last seven years. So I think I have a little bit of a non traditional route as well. I graduated quite some time ago from UC Irvine with a degree in biological sciences, always dreamt about getting to medicine getting to health care. And I kind of deviated a little bit because I wanted more experience. I wanted more personal development. And I got a lot of shadowing experiences from different career paths that finally allowed me to sort of settle on. Being a physician assistant is really a great fit for me. So now I'm just here to learn from you guys from the experts on what is the best path to go from this point on. So I think we're going to be talking about post back versus masters in this in this video today. Absolutely. Yeah I think that's going to be the title of the video or something similar like post back versus masters low GPA PA school applicants. Kind of a deal because that is Elijah that's what happened, you know he ended up going the masters route I went the post back route, you know we both got in. I'm a PC he's a PS. So, and we're going to help Omar decide what he's going to do right. Hopefully. So basically the format is it's going to be mostly a conversation so Omar and I are going to be asking Elijah some questions, hoping to get Omar into PA school and as a byproduct some of you watching this video hopefully give you some good information, helping you get into PA school. And so I've just got a couple of very basic questions I think every pre PA applicant wants to know. And then I'm going to set over loose on Elijah, as long as he's ready. Very basic questions for me, just basically stats. Elijah, what was your post back GPA or sorry, your undergraduate GPA. Okay, so it's a lot of number crunching. I actually have a list here, because a lot of people always ask me so I had it ready. I think coming out of UCLA, just from it being calculated from the university, I say it was like around a 2.1 or something but if I were to calculate my S GPA after graduating from UCLA. I think it was around a 2.1 as well and my overall was probably like a 2.3 so I was really, I was really down there in the trenches. So I decided I had to do a master's I had to really kick butt in that and I started taking pre-rex and retaking pre-rex and had to kick butt in that. And the reason I retook those pre-rex was because they were starting to expire. I was getting a little older in my life and those classes are starting to expire but after all was said and done at the time. My application was verified. My master's wasn't technically done yet, but then I was able to get my science GPA up to 2.3 and my CGPA somewhere closer to that 3.0 realm but like as you can see like nothing budged. It was a it was pretty disheartening, especially while I was applying a little more about me so my PC I had around 5000 hours when I applied. Probably 6000 now. I did drop down a part time. I'm taking it a little easy on myself before I start. Leadership was during my undergrad. I had around 792 hours in that shadowing at the time of application had 24 extracurriculars. I did a lot of extracurriculars in my undergrad along with raising my kid, which is probably why my grades suffered. So I had around 210 hours in that. And after all was said and done, my master's GPA was about was a near 4.0. I got like an A-1 class, which was pretty frustrating. I had like a 3.97 master's GPA and my last 60 units total was around like a 3.86. A lot of numbers. Did you have any volunteer experience? Probably like one hour, which I did after I applied. Okay, one hour volunteer. Yeah, with how busy I was doing the master's and doing like a little post back and getting shadowing and working full time and going to school full time and raising a kid. Oh, it was it was too much. I just couldn't fit fit volunteering in there. I mean, raising a kid was technically volunteer service. It's like communities, you know, the home community free labor for my son, free labor for for Caleb. I mean, I think that's another title for the video potentially and the running how to get into PA school with one volunteer hour. That's a good hooker. Yeah, I think absolutely people like that one. Okay, a couple more very basic kind of numerical questions. So how many times have you applied to PA school? So I don't think this is the norm. I honestly think this was like a complete miracle story. So this was my first time applying and I had one interview. I saw him and no by no means any expert on the matter. I just want to convey my story to people just to let them know like hey this is what I did. This is what worked for me. And it only takes one school. But yeah, this was my first cycle my first and only thing goodness. So you are you only applied one time you only got one interview and you got in and it was Rutgers, which is like a really prestigious program to how many, how many programs that you apply to. I think I applied to like the average most people are saying like seven to 10 was average but I put around like 12. Okay, and I had to be really strategic with how I applied I couldn't just apply to like schools near me. Yeah, right because I would have to meet the minimum and most minimums are like 3.0 and I was sitting at like a 2.3 science. So I had to I had to really do like extensive research on what schools I applied to I really had to see what schools would even take a look at my application and it was really nice because Rutgers had this one supplemental where they mentioned that if you have like below our 3.2 minimum GPA can you explain any extenuating circumstances and you know I really took my time in those supplementals and I really poured my heart out and just really just told my troops like hey. This was this was the student I was before I was raising a kid I was really young and mature, but this is the potential I have now and I really showed them that master's. So that's kind of how you got your foot in the door with the low GPA as you extensively research programs that didn't have that high minimum. And then you use supplemental essays to explain yourself. Yes, correct. You didn't actually like make personal contacts with admissions offices or walk in there and you know demand that they talk to you you just like. Oh man trust me I sent a lot I sent a lot of emails I I made sure like hey like these are my numbers we guys even look at me and there's some programs I go to me and I think I didn't even apply to those at all because I wanted a program that would you know there would be some sort of back and forth conversation. So the schools that I applied to. There really weren't a lot and some of them, some of the ones that I applied to I probably had an inkling that they would even look at my application but there was a couple schools like records where I knew like they said they look at every application and I my goodness they they really do because I don't know how I got in with these numbers I was mainly applying to look like a reapplicant for next cycle. But I mean, they gave me a little taste of the interview process and I was like, I have to get in. I can't do this the second time. I'm so happy for you congratulations. Because I mean like you didn't think you were getting in you were like let's just do a practice run and then he fricking gets in. Trust me I mean I I prepped I made sure to prep before my first cycle. But even then I knew I, I knew my numbers weren't there. Like it's not what programs are looking for but I got I got really lucky honestly I just everything that fell into place for me, contacting my mentor on those Facebook groups and her telling me, hey just apply. I mean, that was her school that I applied to and I, if I didn't do the things that I didn't like outreach to all those people and like found out more about what to do with a low GPA than I don't think I'd be where I'm at today. Yeah. So just to recap, you spent a lot of effort you didn't just like submit your CASPA and just fire it off and hope that that was it. You researched the schools to apply to which ones wouldn't possibly allow you with a lower GPA. You sent out probably hundreds of emails to admissions counselors and tried to like talk to some of them. And then the ones that actually would give you time a day those are the ones you focused on. Yes, correct. And just one thing I'd like to add is admissions staff turnover like crazy. Right it's a tough job. And so it's not like any specific program is going to give you a chance. It's a specific program at a specific time. Now, for instance, Rutgers might have that kind of a counselor that's got time on her hands. And you don't want it to hear Elijah's story. Next year that person might be working somewhere else. So Rutgers would no longer be a school that you would want to do that for. So the best you can do is just like email and call and walk into as many as possible. And just see which one you might have a connection with that year. And then the following year it might be a different school, you know, right. Yeah, you did the exact right thing good on you. Thank you. Literally exact same story as me except there was only two schools because I had to stay in Syracuse at the time. So I just like made best friends with the admissions counselors to both got interviews at both, you know, got into one. So, that's what you got to do. All right, last question. And I know Omar sitting there quietly and patiently. I'm sorry, Omar. I have one last question for Elijah Elijah why physician assistant. Oh man. It's really something I didn't even know about growing up I always knew I wanted to be medicine. I, my family has a very extensive history in medicine my mom's a nurse, my grandparents were doctors in the Philippines. It just seemed like medicine was the way to go and I knew I didn't want to be a nurse. I thought I really wanted to be a doctor until I found out about the pay profession, and until my life kind of like unraveled and like oh I have a kid, eight years is a little too long for med school. So, yeah, I mean as soon as I had my son I was, he's a blessing yes but at the time I was thinking oh my goodness I'm not going to get into med school how can I support a family and, you know, do this and then that's when the pay profession kind of came up like out of nowhere my grandpa mentioned it and I looked into it. And when I really started working after my, my bachelor's after UCLA, I started describing for some PAs I started working around a lot of PAs and they said they love their job and I started telling me more about it, and how it's a lot less schooling, and you get paid like a really good salary it's a really stable living a lot of PAs love their profession a lot of doctors tell me like to do the PR out because it just fits so well with my lifestyle and just how my life came to be. So yeah I mean, I think there was one specific moment, I never mentioned this in the personal statement or anything like that but it was one specific moment in the ED when I, because I'm an ED tech right now. I work alongside with like the trauma service sometimes and I saw what the PAs do, what they're capable of on the trauma service and there was one day when they were like multiple high acuity traumas I came in and attending how to stabilize one, and his PAs had to stabilize the other and kind of they were able to orchestrate their own patient while the attending was trying to stabilize his and I just thought the scope of practice of what PAs can do at least in the emergent setting it's amazing. So in not so many words, you want it to be a doctor without having to do all the schooling. Yes, early almost every PAs, almost every single PAs. But how do you say that in a personal statement without basically saying that but we all know what you're saying. You know, that's, that's the trick. But anyway, great answer. Very great answer I could see why you got in man and you communicate very clearly you got this like very friendly very approachable demeanor about you I definitely see why they, you know wanted you in the program. Thank you. And best of luck to you. And Omar, I think that leads us into your questions. Okay. Thank you board so Elijah just a few questions for you. First and foremost, what made you decide between a master's program, as opposed to getting to a post back program. What, what was your decision making. So, I guess the fun answer would be because my boss told me to my wife. She's kind of in the same path to she's doing medicine. Well she's applying to medical and she, she is doing the master's route as well and she kind of told me like hey, like instead of a post back, why not do a master's and I was really good like Boris really considering a post back has. I don't know something about a master's sounds like it's really expensive, but I think it all kind of adds up in the end. At the end of the day I chose it because I wanted, I guess a master's to my name. It would be awesome having to. That's a sort of a little bit of an ego thing there. But really it was just to raise my GPA is it was just a show at comms that hey, like my undergrad wasn't so good, but here I am kicking butt in my graduate program I was able to get a near 4.0. So that was the main reason I chose a master's versus a post back it was mainly because the wife told me to but also because I wanted that master's to my name but there is no wrong or right route. If a post back works for you I say do that because it works for Boris and for me the master's work for me and I got in so we kind of both have two sides of the coin here and we both got in so I think any route that you take would be the right one as long as you kick butt. That's it. What kind of I think we got through question to pretty well here but for question three what kind of master's was it I don't know if you mentioned it. No I didn't. So it was a science based masters I know some people do like public health and I'm not too sure the nuances around that but I've heard people get in with like public health but I specifically chose medical nutrition, and it was very research heavy. And I think there's a part on the cast but where I was able actually able to publish or at least upload my research so I don't even know if that was even looked at but yeah that was the masters I got into medical nutrition I really like that. Yeah, I feel like that's the kind of the future. I can remember I took this class basically like history of medicine kind of a deal it was in my post back and it said something along the lines of like what used to kill people was like accidents and like workplace accidents and you know fights and whatnot and then that kind of stopped. And then it was infections like bacteria and then antibiotics came about and that basically stopped, you know not completely but mostly. And now it's all metabolic diseases, you know feeding ourselves and correctly not exercising. So I feel like nutrition is kind of the future so you're definitely in a good place for that. I quite enjoyed the masters to like, I, I initially went in saying I'm going to do this message for the GPA but then, like, if you think about it and like nutrition is a big part of our lives and I realized that growing up. Not many of the physicians that I saw in my family visits would mention anything about nutrition. So I was hoping to supplement that somehow into how I practice as a PN, like everything just fell into place and like, I really enjoyed that masters I think it could play a big role in how I practice as a provider so I think that was a big benefit of doing nutrition I know other people do like physiology masters, or like I said earlier public health, but I think choosing like a science based masters or if you're doing a post batch is doing those graduate level science courses should the one of those two would be the right route for people who are in the same boat as us. So Omar, do you have a follow on it? I want to step on you. Yeah, I don't follow blush. Great to hear all that how did you, did you by chance consult with an admissions counselor. When you were telling them hey I'm thinking about doing this master's program do you think it's going to help boost my chances of getting to PA school versus a post back did you get any positive feedback that sort of directed you towards the masters that reinforce that decision. I did, I did get that positive reinforcement once I started delving into those Facebook groups and making posts and seeing what other people were posting and saying like yeah do a masters or a post back but I had like one really kind of negative experience with the school around my area, I did get in touch with one of the outcomes like counselors I think is what it was but this was years ago so I don't know if that person's still there. They kind of told me like hey like we're not going to even look at you like you don't do like a post back so like you basically told me like that to email him back until I finish the post back. And I don't think that's the norm with how counselors usually respond to you. But I did have both negative and positive reinforcements with regards to having a low GPA because there's some counselors out there who think that medicines not for you like you have this horrible GPA but then there's some people who think who really want to push you. And that's kind of why I wanted to get on this podcast with Boris and you Omer because I wanted to show people like no like you can do it like you can have a really bad GPA like mine and you can do steps to right the wrongs of your academic past and you can really fix your GPA and get in and that it's possible. Yeah, I think if a counselor thinks that medicines not for you just because you made mistakes in the past. I think that counselors in the wrong job. I was really in at the time so I kind of it kind of hurt me to the core there when you told me that. Yeah, I mean I mean sorry. I could see them being very realistic because PA school is like 2% admission. Yes, I like it's harder to get into PA school than it is Harvard. So it's like it's extremely competitive I could see them being like realistic about it and saying like look it's by the numbers there's kind of no point in trying but success story success story. So like if you want it bad enough, you're just going to be that much better. You know that someone who had it easy, you know what I mean. So no. And I think most of the people watching this and following my channel for this reason it's like that's what they want. You know they really want it that badly and they're going to do anything it takes. I agree. Yeah. Oh God I had another question here and I forgot already. Do you have another one there Omer. Yeah, I think just to follow up on that I think part of the reason why I get the feeling, because I did talk to a few admission counselors before here on some schools in California. And I did get the impression that they didn't say it verbally but certainly it definitely was implicit that they were school with a reputation they wanted to protect their reputation so having that GPA. They can sort of add it into their website and show everyone. This is who the average GPA is and it'll be like 3.66 or 3.57. So I think they were looking at kind of like with as if it was like a business decision in that sense and so I didn't get a lot of encouragement. It was it was sort of split talking to certain admissions counselors. Some just said, and full disclosure maybe I'll reveal a little bit about myself. I currently work at a school of medicine here in South LA. I don't know if you're familiar with Charles R. Drew University School of Medicine. Amazing school so I thought working here, working with someone with an amazing reputation, having six years of experience working in this particular field that I work in. One person did tell me go for it go for it you if you're getting a letter from this person. If you have this reputation. If you have all these amazing extracurricular activities and you've taken classes in the last few years to show that you're improving. Like I took about five or six classes in anatomy, physio, bio stats and I got straight A's and all of them. It didn't move my GPA a little bit direction that I wanted it to but it's still I thought I'm at least showing effort in so many different areas and and being a well rounded candidate. I thought why not go for it and yeah so it's I think that's probably what a lot of people are very curious about what's going to have more of an impact. Everything else in my application or is it really really on the GPA, even if you do show that you're making improvements and that you have still good study habits at this point in time. So one very important thing about that is how many classes you're taking at the same time. And so if you spend the last three years taking one or two classes at a time in their straight A's that doesn't show an admissions person nearly as much about you as if you took four of those at the same time and got straight A's. Absolutely. See what I'm saying so is there ever a point even for like one semester when you were taking a full load and got a 4.0. I took maybe three classes at one time, but that was it it was not consistent it was not back to back semesters or back to back quarters. And I think that was the issue was it was it was the pandemic and it was also work, work life balance, striking that balance was just very very difficult working in health care already. So that's why I'm here with you guys to really decide what else I can do because I'm very determined. And, you know, I love the journey, and I'm willing to do almost whatever it takes. So that's essentially where I'm at right now. Yeah, I respect that. And I'm just going to tell you I'm going to communicate what the admissions counselor at my current school that I went to what she told me. And she said basically what we need to see is if you can handle a full load of higher level bio and chem courses, you know, similar basically simulating a PA school experience right. So if you can handle that with a 4.0, you'll probably be able to get their PA school, because the last thing they want to do is admit you and then you fail out. You know you just took a spot from somebody that could have made it through. You just, you know, made their reputation worse you got their average GPA and what is it attrition rate or whatever you made that worse so like that's the last thing that they want. Plus the detriment to you and all the money that you're out and your time and everything. So they just want to like basically they're placing a bet on you. How likely is this person to get through the program and then to pass the pants right. So the best way that they can predict that is through your history. Is there ever a point when you did have a very high GPA, taking a full load, which is basically masters or post back that's what you're doing in both of those. It's kind of the decision and like we both, you know, to success stories from both sides of those we both prove that we can get very good grades consistently taking a full load. Yeah, with with regards to that like that work life balance. The past year to two years for me was particularly tough because I wasn't just working full time I was also doing the masters. So instead of two years I kind of fast-tracked it to one year. So I think they kind of took that into consideration and on top of that a lot of my pre-reqs were expiring like Jen Kim Okem. So I was taking those pre-reqs on top of the masters. So I was taking, gosh, I don't even know how many units but I, I kid you not I was probably getting three, four hours of sleep every night. Barely had to see my wife and my son. So that's kind of like the sacrifice that at least I had to make. I don't know with your balance and your how your balance in your life is, but that's the sacrifice I had to make. And, you know, that's why I kind of like dropped down a part time not because I'm trying to spend time with my son and my wife, because these past one to two years I really have been kicking my butt. And just to follow up on, yeah, like when Boris said with when he talked to Adcoms, I think that's probably why they looked at my applications because they saw that I overloaded myself, not just with work, school, the fact that I had a kid, but I was also like shadowing at the same time. I was doing like all these things. Like you have to make yourself holistic in every single aspect. It's not just grades. You have to work and be successful and show that balance. And like, even if you can get shadowing in there and it's it's really tough. I remember one month I probably had like one or two days off because I was working weekends as well. But it is a sacrifice but if you can keep pushing man just you just have to take every day like one day at a time. It's really hard but it's really possible you just you have to kick your butt for it. Yeah, they want to see what are you capable of. And obviously, with all of that Elijah is very capable. So they're like he can do this on top of that plus get these grades like he's obviously going to be able to handle our program or at least we I survived. I survived. I don't know if I thrive, but I survived. You thrive you got like a 4.0 man what are you talking about. Three hours of sleep does a very taxi. If you're trying to do something like this and especially if you're playing catch up like think about what you're trying to do you're not applying for a job at Taco Bell. You're not trying to like both laundry or like serve chicken sandwiches important jobs both of them, but you're not trying to do that you're trying to get into something with an extremely competitive field, you know to get into the school so work life balance shouldn't really be in your vernacular at least for a couple years. I'll tell you a quick story in my post back I think there was like 15 of us. And like when it started they had us do this weird retreat out in the woods where we like carried each other and climbed ropes and like this whole weird like team bonding thing. And we have this like little campfire like conversation was like, what are your goals for this year what do you hope to get out of this. And like most of us were like, look, I screwed up in the past I'm going to study my butt off I'm going to, you know, work 90 100 hours a week. I'm going to get a 4.0 I'm going to get into med school PA school whatever. And one girl was like, I just really want to find myself. And we were all like, what, that's what you came to Cornell for and you're paying 80 grand this year to get your grades up to find yourself like what. And so she's like, yeah, I just I really want to focus on work life balance and I really want to just like have a good time and, you know, long story short the girls didn't get a very good GPA I'm assuming she didn't get into med school. Maybe she said I don't know but like she was the one that was constantly missing classes and constantly like having problems. Didn't get what she like was supposed to get out of this program and the rest of us were like no we have two semesters to prove ourselves. Let's go you know no sleep. Working all day every day. If you know if you drop and you pass out okay sleep for 30 minutes go study some more. Like that's what you got to be and that's your mindset there's no work life balance right now man there's there just not. When your PA you get work like balance. Fantastic. Yeah, after you get that job. Yeah, you get a lot of learning, even though you have to learn that job. So yeah I mean PA school is really hard. I would say as hard or harder than my post back but like you'll get your work life balance down the line. You know you're so young you don't need it. You don't need sleep you don't need to rest. That's not medical advice. Yeah it's just the hard truth of the message. It's yeah we like sacrifice our bodies and our psychology and whatnot for other people's bodies and psychology. You know that's what's that's your job that's what you're signing up for you know. Ordering in progress and we're back. Okay. Where'd we leave off Omar you want to go with question number four. I think we kind of went into that a little bit. How did your master's program help to increase your chances of getting to PA program Elijah you did say that it helped you stand up because you talked about nutrition and how you were very passionate about nutrition. How there's a growing trend I guess in this country that food is medicine and then health as well and that we all need to be more holistic when it comes to our health care. Yeah I agree with you I mean I'm in public health and even to this day I can just speak from personal experience I understand the value of sexual health. HIV and STI testing. It's really at the bottom of the list for a lot of people. It's now physical health maybe mental health. And there's a lot of just huge gaps in the education system that I feel like a PA does a really good job of sort of filling in because a physician might not have time. So, hence you have the PAs and the NPs that really come in and spend the most amount of time with patients on a regular basis. And so for me that's how that's what really clicked for me and I was incredibly inspired by that when I had a shadowing experience. So, yeah, you pretty much answer that beautifully like I'm really happy to hear that that's, I'm sure through your interview you really showed your passion for the work they saw and said, This is the guy this is the guy that we want in our class. I think with my personal statement with regards to that question, I was able to tie in that that masters that they degree I got medical nutrition to how I wanted to practice as a provider. The fact that nutrition is like a very holistic aspect of medicine that not many people practice it. So I think the fact that I was able to tie in my, my recent education to what how I would want to practice as a PA, whether or not you do it in public health physiology or whatever masters or post backer that you pursue, I think if you can tie that in, whether or not it'd be in your personal statement or interview and just touch up on that I think that kind of helped me a little bit. I'm not too sure because I, I get when I get there on in August I still want to talk to like that there at Combs and say like hey like what did I do differently like what what made me stand out I personally don't know that's just what I'm assuming made me stand out but but yeah I think that if you can tie like your recent education and your experiences into why you also want to practice as a PA I think is a big plus that's at least what I did. So you talked about that in your essay and also in your interview. I touched up on it in my interview because I stated it in my personal statement, and they, they did ask about my masters. And I said yes, like it was a really big part of my education actually like I went in thinking I was just here to boost the GPA but actually I, you know, retained a lot of knowledge from it and it's something I want to utilize as a PA in the future. Did you actually say that in your interview like I really went there to boost my GPA but then I actually got educated. I'm brutally honest. Yeah, I think being honest to because they know what the sorry forgive me, they know BS when they see it. If you're just honest with them like they understand how things are. And if you can make light of a situation and and really like show them like you're able to, you know, tackle these things like with the light heart. And you know that kind of like positive demeanor than I think it's something that really stands out to them but yeah I was really honest with them. I had no, I had nothing to hide. Kind of like how we're having a conversation right now this is exactly how I talked to them. Yeah, it sounds really genuine, because like they know what you were doing. I mean maybe you would have got the masters if you didn't want to go to PA school maybe you wouldn't have. But like either way you made the best of it so it just sounds really genuine. I like that. Do you feel like the masters first. Sorry, what does that say. Oh, do you feel like the masters program that you did prepared you for the academic rigors of PA school. So I wish you would have asked me that two months from now because I haven't started yet. That's true. Yeah, most program most programs have started already but I unfortunately have not started yet. I still, despite the fact that I did so much academically the past couple years I still feel that nervousness and I think anyone who goes into it will feel it. Because you just don't know what to expect and you just hear the stories of like the fire hydrant analogy and that it's a whole different beast and I really won't know how to answer that until I'm in but I can tell you now that I'm nervous. I'm hoping it prepares me. I'm hoping that for me being able to find balance that academic work and being a dad like finding that balance in my life would somehow transition into being a P. P a s but I wouldn't know it yet until I start. Yeah, it would be a better question if we if we asked you in the fall after you started the program reconvene. We should know actually I'm like, I'm like struggling. I'm dying out here guys. Of course man that's normal. Everybody feels like that. No, I mean the fire hydrant analogy is totally true. It just like it never feels like it's going to end because it doesn't. And like, I guess, just kind of just limit your expectations you're not going to feel like you know anything until you graduate, because you just like don't really have time to know what I mean so like by the time you learn something and you really got it you're already studying for like three other things so you just like you don't really know these things. But then like you graduate and you're like wait a minute I know some of this stuff. You know, just kind of keep your head down walk through the fire hydrant, you'll get it. Sorry, that was my son. Yeah, he was asking for where I've had time I was kind of like, I figured. Yeah, we're almost done Caleb I promise. Oh no he's okay. He's fine. All right we did that. All right Omar, you got another one. I guess we went almost over over everything but the final would be. How did you finance your your master's degree. Did you, did you work he said you a little bit at the time or did you take out loans. I did work but most of my money for work went towards and that's another thing, another layer of the onion I was financing my wedding on top of all of this. Yeah, I was also getting married. So all my money from my job was going to the wedding. So I had to take out loans for this one. I think I did graduate plus loans I believe. Because doing a master's this fall under the realm of being eligible for those graduate plus loans and unfortunately I still have like a big lump sum from my undergraduate but I, I was already going forward in this path I really knew this is what I wanted to do so I saw it as an investment towards myself and even though I had to take out more loans. And at the end of the day it's kind of all be worth it. Yeah, there's really no other way. There's no there's no tuning back. Not really I mean there's military I guess if you want to spend a few years got the GI bill, you know, like, I basically did. But that's a lot of time. So much time, it might be better to just do it on the back end you know go like do a program that does like low repayment afterwards that kind of deal. Yes, is just student loans are inevitable man there's there's just no other way. Yeah, unless you're you have a good like family and they're willing to pay for it. Yeah, that'll be nice. That sounds nice. I don't have that I don't know about you guys. But my mom has offered but I'm like no I kind of want, I kind of want to be independent in this. So I did take out the loans, but my mom did offer but yeah, I took out loans for undergrad and for this master's. Yeah. You know if you work for a nonprofit government, or even university they do have the option of 120 after 120 repayments of your loans. They'll pay off the rest. So that's like maybe 10 years or maybe I don't know if you can condense that at some point. But that's what I've learned if you get into either a job that's nonprofit government or university. Yeah, so loan forgiveness I think it's like a certain number of months but it accumulates eventually like 10 years. Another option you can look into is like when Boris said doing military I did consider that I got in touch with a couple officers and recruiters. Just wasn't for my family's lifestyle and then there's another one called the National Health Service Corps or something like that. I did look into that and it requires you to practice primary care in underserved populations and I. I'm still considering it. I am very much gravitating towards being a hospital PA and I know none of that falls within the realm of primary care. So if you're willing to do primary care for at least like a couple years and I think that that would be a good option. I know those are like the three main options that I hear people talk about when repaying their loans is that 10 year loan repayment loan forgiveness military and the National Health Service Corps. The Health Service Corps keeps changing but I think it's it's basically like a normal PA job just like not paid super well maybe 90 100 max and you're doing primary care usually and like either really bad neighborhoods or like refugees. A lot of times people that don't speak English it's just like it's a it's kind of harder in some ways than working a different job and then they give you an extra I think 20 or 25 grand a year towards your loans. I want to say tax free. So I mean it's a good benefit it's like 50 grand and then you can read up so it could be 100 total so it's a good pretty good deal. Another option is you can just get into a higher paying specialty like cardiothoracic surgery dermatology. You know and after two years will be making way more than that anyway. So yeah depends what you do. You know but either way you're going to be making enough money to make your payments so I wouldn't worry about it. Usually six figures is a good salary. It's a big sell it's a big increase from at least what I'm learning now. Yeah no money more problems. Yeah threefold or fourfold increases something like. Yep. Maybe amazed at how quickly your lifestyle changes and then it's like wait what now I need more. Keep going. Be able to be. Homer do you have any more PA questions replication questions before I get into the fun stuff. No I think that's everything. Thank you Elijah. Yeah man no worries. Just feel free to hit me up as well. I don't know if you're in that same thread as mean Boris or in but yeah man if you ever have any questions like if you want to update me on your cycle just go ahead and hit me up. And I love doing this for people who were in the same boat as me because I know I know the struggle Boris knows the struggle that's why he's doing this just to make it more transparent for other applicants. But yeah thanks for thanks over for having me. Absolutely hopefully this is helpful. So I'm going to post this as like one big long interview and then I'm going to just break it up into like smaller bits more topic specific. I'm also give me one second. Have one in my backpack. I'm also going to plug my book. Not sure if you have this Elijah but I'll send you one for free obviously. Yep. Step by step how to write your personal statements how to fill out the cast application that kind of thing. So everybody should get this it'll be in the information for the video. What else Elijah what's your favorite color blue. Those are the colors of my wedding. Wait what about your wedding. Those are the colors of my wedding blue. Oh yeah. Where'd you guys get married here in Arizona. In the desert. It was really nice. In the desert. Yeah my my my picture on my email on our thread is that's actually for my wedding. I use that for everything. Yep that's my ID for school now for Rutgers and I've uploaded it to like every single like late then all that. It's so small I can I'm trying to like zoom in on it. Oh that's from your wedding. Yeah yeah. Oh that's cool. Yeah he looks sharp he's got like a blue blazer no tie got a pocket. I was a little skinnier I didn't start myself to fit that but yeah getting a little weight that happy way. You're just a happy. You're getting a head start for PA school because you get the freshman 15 all over again. It's just what it is. It's okay there's always a fitness center but you don't have time to use it. Omar what's your favorite color. Green because I love just immersing myself in nature. Being in LA there's a lot of hiking I go to the beach. And you know I love also national parks like Yosemite and Sequoia. Those are my two favorite places to go. Sequoia is my dream I think I'm going to be in LA in August visiting a buddy. I definitely want to go to Sequoia really bad. Those trees are huge man. They look like buildings like I can't wait to see. They're really tall. They're really wide too it's crazy. Yeah like they have like a cut out one we got like 20 people standing in it. It's crazy. Oh yeah. I can't wait. Yeah Omar I'll definitely hit you up if I'm in LA. Alright last but not least Elijah what is your favorite animal. Sea turtle but that's because there's a little background on my ancestry. I don't know if it's true or not. One of my ancestors I think like great great great grandpa was. He was fishing on the ocean in the Philippines and there's a storm. Next you know he wakes up on a beach as a giant sea turtle next to him. So the story is that the sea turtle saved him. Without that sea turtle I wouldn't be here with you guys today. So thank goodness for that. That's like Johnny Depp's character. What do you say? They're like how did you get off the island? He's like I strung together a bunch of sea turtles with hair from my back. Kind of the same. I don't know how true it is. It's just what I heard from my grandma. Wait your grandpa is Captain Jack Sparrow. So cool. You're famous. What's your favorite animal? You can't say sea turtle. That one's taken. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. So I have two but I guess I'll go with the the sperm whale just because they can live for so long. They can also live I think almost close to a hundred years. And just to be able to live life for that long to like how much experience how much knowledge an animal on this planet has. That's incredible. I mean I think now with modern medicine. The three of us are going to live pretty close to a hundred. If things go pretty well. Hopefully. But yeah just the ocean. I love the ocean and being able like if I was reincarnated I wouldn't mind being reincarnated as a whale. As a sperm whale. As a sperm whale. Sure. Yeah. If you have to be something you may as well be something that's really hard to kill like a whale. I think sperm whales are the only animal that hunt killer whales. Like orcas. Oh I didn't know that. Yeah. I went down like a YouTube rabbit hole about this is like what I do late at night if I can't sleep just like watch animal videos. So it's a stupid question. But I'm pretty sure sperm whales are the only animals that actually hunt orcas because supposedly orcas are like top of the food chain but if sperm whales get into their head they actually hunt them and try to eat them. I even know that. And then there's one forget what it's called it had like a really bad I'm not going to swear a bad a name. It was like the largest teeth of any animal ever to live and it was this massive sperm whale. This like super huge carnivorous sperm whale. Ancient sperm whale. I kind of I kind of want to look it up too. I know I'm trying to remember what it was called. It was super cool it was a oh yeah the Leviathan. Oh I know that I know I've heard of that one. You heard of that. Yeah I went down that rabbit hole as well. Maybe that's why I was in my recommended. Because Elijah was like. Okay so there's like if you look up Leviathan it's like this BS like storybook character but it's like Leviathan whale. It's real. Yeah I went down that rabbit hole. Oh my goodness. So cool. Yeah there it is like taking out Megalodons and stuff. Yeah it's so cool. Yeah if it's if it's true obviously the YouTube rabbit hole it had the largest teeth of any animal ever to live. They were like there's massive like one foot long things. So good. All right good answer. Sperm whales a solid answer. I inspired you guys. Good. You did. I agree with you on the green. I've always just liked green. I don't know why. And then my my favorite animal used to be the Siberian tiger because I just thought they were cool. But I mean now the obvious answer is dogs. Because you're not like a dog. I saw your video the other day. Your name your favorite neighbor is your Holly. Yeah. Oh my gosh you should be in this video but it's going to take a while to get her out of the house. That was funny. I like that. Literally. All right. Any parting words there Elijah words of wisdom. If you're really in the trenches of it just keep pushing every day one day at a time. Make sure you can go to sleep saying I did everything I could today to make myself. More successful for the future. There's going to be more days where. You guys feel like. It's it's tough and it's it's really hard to get through and it like you just feel that. Doubt and that negativity but if you just keep pushing every day because you're going to hit that point when. A school tells you that you've got an accepted or even when you get in the interview and you're just going to be so sad again that's just going to kind of cascade into your stories of success. So just keep pushing now. It sucks now it sucks your situation now. But keep pushing because for the future. Everything's worth it. You know Boris is. You know this is kind of an evolution. We have Boris here who did it. Me who just recently did it and no more who's going to like Boris is going to future eventually do it as well. Yep. Next year two years from now Elijah or not Elijah Omer is going to be the one in Elijah's seat. Elijah is going to be in my seat taking over BTPA my whole organization and I'm going to be retired. Boris is going to be Yoda. Yoda. Yoda from Star Wars. I mean I'm bald enough. I'm not short enough. I wanted to say something in like the Yoda voice and that it's like something you are. But whatever I lost it. I don't want to be Yoda. I want to be like Obi-Wan. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Old Ben. Old Ben. Is that what you call him? Well when when he's like a hermit. He becomes like a hermit. I don't know the Star Wars that much anymore. I was a Harry Potter guy who was never a big Star Wars guy. You can end the video with a do or do not. There is no try. Oh was that a Yoda thing? That's a Yoda thing. Do or do not. There is no try. Oh we're going with cheesy quotes. All right sweet. I totally got one too. It's such a contentious thing like should you use quotes in your essay or whatever. I use two I think. I don't know. It depends who you ask. But like if there's a quote that's really deep in your mind that you use it. But yeah. Do or do not. There is no try. I like that. I like that a lot from our cartoon character. I don't know who said if not me who if not now when. So I'm just going to kind of say my two cents. If like you have it in your mind for whatever reason that you want to be a PA you're like super into the idea. It's just like just pulling at your heart strings for whatever reason you can't think about like doing anything else. There's a reason you're feeling that you know you believe it in God. You don't believe in God. There's a reason the universe God whoever is like putting that in your mind as powerfully as they are. So you know listen to that pursue that do everything you can. If it ends up not going that way you know be open to other possibilities being a nurse. You know doing accelerated nursing and then maybe being an NP or something like that's fine. But like listen to that there's a reason you're feeling the way you are. And then there is an answer. You can take my route. You can take Elijah's route. You know there's a way to get there. So there's a reason you're feeling this way and you should totally listen to it. Don't give up. It's worth it. I promise. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you both. Thanks guys. You're snapping right now. I don't know why you're not. I'm joking. All right y'all. So yeah. Elijah thank you very much for coming on. Sharing your wisdom. Omar thank you for asking the questions and being here. You know best of luck to both of you. Let me know if you need anything and I think after a few months of the program we should get ready for Elijah. How he's doing. Oh yeah. I'll be on Instagram. Absolutely man. Alrighty. All right. Let's go. Fist bumps on three. One, two, three fist bumps. You're like an Instagram boomerang. Alrighty. Hang on. This is a stupid idea but let me try that. Let me try that right now. I'm going to get it from mine too. Oh we're going to all do it at the same time. Yeah. All right. All right. All right. Totally. All right. Sweet. Omer's like I don't do Instagram. Nope. He does. He does. I'll do it. Why not? Wait. Does everyone have the same phone? Well. Well from Max. Well I got a little window for mine. Look at you. Look at you. It's my wife. She made me get it. Okay. Sure. All right. Fist bumps on three. Ready. Oh my God. It's totally. It was that one. Whatever. I'll post it. I don't care. Yes. I have flowers in my house to me. I like flowers. That's a good thing. Yeah. I'll tag both of you all in my story. All right guys. I got a nice halo for lunch but. Absolutely man. Oh I think I have to go get a massage. It's all fly. I like. Oh yeah. Yeah. So that's okay. It's doing their days off. That's nice. I get massages. Yeah. We're so stressed out. We need our, you know, our traps reset. So stressed. I have the money. I'll live life for us when I have the money. I don't know. When you have the money, you live a little better than me because all my money is going into this house and then it's getting rented. Then I'll be homeless. It's okay. All mine is going to go to my son's college tuition. So it's not. Your kid. I was eating all your money. As he should be. All right. Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you guys so much. Take care. Bye.