 Yeah. They do still need me to read the preamble regarding zoom. Okay. We'll have that. So that comes first. And then the legal document that you sent me. So we're ready to go. Yeah, I can admit the attendees are still joining. So. Okay. Wait a minute. Yeah, it's wait a minute or two. So I see it. What a big number of people. First pot. I see there's a hand raised. We're not, we're, um, we're going to, we have to open the hearings first and then we can start taking some comment. So we're ready to open the meeting. Yeah, I think it looks like, uh, I'll just start everyone's knowledge that, you know, There's 30 attendees. And so, you know, the way we set up our zoom forum, there's, it's a webinar. So attendees can't see each other, the panelists, the historical commission and myself can see who's an attendee, but there are 30. 30 members of the public here. So I just wanted to let everyone know that. And this is being recorded. Okay. So it is six, 39 p.m. and we are opening, um, this September 14th meeting of the Amherst historical commission. Um, pursuant to governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 orders suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. Uh, GLC 30 a section 18 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended by chapter 20, 22 of the acts of 22 2022. And extended again by the state legislature on July 14th, 2022 and signed into law on July 16th, 2022. This public meeting and public hearings of the town of Amherst historical commission are being conducted via remote participation. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. The hyperlink to the hearing is posted on the town's online calendar. Um, now I'm going to open, we have two public hearings this evening. So I'm going to, uh, open them, uh, by reading our legal notice here. Um, and in accordance with the provisions of article 3.6. Oh, of Amherst general bylaws preservation of historically significant buildings. The Amherst historical commission will hold a public hearing on Thursday, September 14th, 2023 at 635 p.m. To consider the following demolition requests. Uh, 43 Amity street Jones library request request to demolish the rear 1990s additions to the 1928 structure. In accordance with sections 3.1 and 3.2 of the preservation restriction agreement between the trustees of the Samuel Minut Jones Memorial library in the town of Amherst, the Amherst historical commission will hold a public hearing today, Thursday, September 14th to review the following major alteration per exhibit F. Standard restriction guidelines. Uh, and then 43 Amity street Jones library requests for changes to the site, including tree removal, changes to the building, including demolition of the rear 1990s addition. And replacement with new expansions and changes to the 1928 structure, including new roofing material. So with that, both public hearings are open. And we'll begin, uh, I think we're beginning the presentation on the project. Is that correct? Sure. If anyone, um, is here for the library. Um, raise your hand and we'll promote you to panelists. So then you can. Help with the presentation. Um, Nate, do you want to share that. Google document that I shared with you. I just wanted to share that with our. Um, commission members and read it so that we have an understanding of how all the different, um, regulations break down in terms of this project while we're waiting for our panelists to. Yeah. Presentation. I have a lot of notifications right now. Okay. Sorry. I can wait too. It doesn't matter. So, um, Sharon or Allen, if you see someone who's. Here. Okay. I see more hands are being raised. All right, Robin. Um, do you want me to share the screen as you asked? Um, Yeah, not so I'm not. So I apologize. I'm on. Yeah. If you can share the document, not my screen. Right. Um, cause I'm on my zoom on one device and my computer on another. So, um, For, uh, both commissioners and members of the public attending. Um, There's a lot of information that's going to be covered in this hearing and there are a lot of different mechanisms. Um, that impact the Jones library in terms of, um, historic preservation. So I just wrote this up quickly. To give everybody a sense of how things break down. So for the demolition permit hearing, the historical commission has powers to allow for the approval of a demolition permit or the imposing of a demolition delay of up to 12 months. Um, so that's only a delay. We can't stop demolition. Uh, the demolition relates only this particular demolition, uh, permit request relates only to the 90 to 93 non historic portion of the building. That 1992 93 portion of the building is excluded from the preservation restriction, which we'll be dealing with separately, but it's not part of the preservation restriction. Uh, impacts from the demolition process to the historical portion of the building can certainly be considered during discussion and decisions about the demolition should as Nate said earlier, should be made on the basis of the demolitions impact on the overall historic buildings, historical significance and integrity. Um, for the preservation restriction hearing, uh, the preservation restriction does require that the historical commission approve any changes or impacts to the exterior of the historical portion of the building. Um, it does not require historic commission, historical commission approval for interior changes, but the historical commission may make advisory comments on these changes. Um, any work approved by the historical commission that is later changed before construction is undertaken would require approval again before another meeting of the historic commission. Um, additional review that's outside of our, um, purview, but that will impact this project depending on, um, whether, um, tax credits are granted. Massachusetts historic tax credit process requires review by the Massachusetts historical commission. I believe of the entire scope of work and they can correct me if I'm wrong, um, before the, the tax credit can be approved. And if the library project applies for federal tax credits, um, that would require review by the national park service again of the entire scope of work. So, um, the interior changes may also, uh, there may also be, um, commentary by both the mass historic commission and the national park service. Um, so keep that in mind as we, um, as we move forward. Um, I think that's a good question. I'm going to go ahead and share about this project. Thanks, Nate. So, um, usually we have applicants make a presentation. I'll stop sharing my screen. So if, um, if there's anyone missing from your team first, you know, there's, um, Is Tim Alex, does he need to, yeah. Yeah. Please bring him in. Thank you. All right. And then. Screen sharing should be enabled. So I don't know if there was. If someone wants to try. Presentation you'd like to make. So, Nate, if it's, if it's okay, um, my name is Austin. I'd like to start. Is that okay? Sure. So my name is Austin. I'm a member of the Jones library board of trustees and I have the privilege of chairing the Jones library building committee. And, uh, first of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to do what we're going to do tonight. We really look forward to your. Review and, um, and comments. Before turning this over to the, um, architects and the people have been working on. Uh, what I regard as a quite compelling design for the library. I just wanted to, to remind. You of what I think you already know, which is the background of this project. The, the trustees more than a decade ago recognized that there were significant deficiencies in the Jones library building. In particular in the 1993 edition. More importantly, we recognized that there were certain things that we wanted to do. To serve the residents of Amherst and the people that visit the library that we were not going to be able to do within the envelope. Of the historic building in the 1993 building. We were driven by a very careful assessment of the library's programs and the library's needs. And we sought to design a project or develop a project. That would ensure that those programmatic needs could be met both now and into the future. That program includes adequate space for children adequate space for teens. More ample reading rooms. And it provides the space necessary for our award winning winning English as a second language program. So that's what we were about. We didn't start out with the idea that we wanted to renovate or demolish anything. We were driven to that conclusion by a careful, by a careful assessment of the program. And the needs of the library. We then went through a process of submitting bids and inviting architects to submit their bids. And we had a rigorous examination. Of what those architects proposed, but more importantly, in this context, a rigorous examination of their record. And one of the things that we looked for was we looked for an architectural firm that had a demonstrated record of successful renovation of buildings. But also of historic preservation. And we chose find Alexander. Not only because of the vision of what our library could be to meet our programmatic needs, but because of their demonstrated record of success in historic preservation. So where are we now we are halfway through construction documents anticipating another cost estimate. In October. We hope to go out to bed in December. Our contract with the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners, which has given us a substantial state grant to help underwrite this project. Requires that we sign a contract with a general contractor no later than June 30th. Of 2024. Tonight we're here to talk as you indicated Robin about the exterior designs of the building. And in the first instance, about the plan to take down the 1993 edition. We're joined by colleagues from Fingal Alexander. We're joined by the Berkshire design group. And from collars are OPM. So with that, I want to turn it over to FAA. Tony, Ellen. Tony. I'll let Tony start and just beans going to share the screen. Thanks for inviting us and taking the time to meet with us everyone. Thanks Ellen. I appreciate this and appreciate everyone's time tonight. Thank you so much. Thank you. This is Tony. I'm a principal director design. I think just being whenever you're ready. We can begin to share. I'm not currently able to share screens. I don't know. Maybe you could give me access. There we go. Thank you. Thanks, just being. So this first portion of the presentations tonight is dealing with a demolition review. So I think why don't we just proceed and go next. So the way we've done this graphically is the areas that are identified in green. This is the 1927 historic. Original library and is indicated that it is to remain. In the 1927. There are some elements that will be modified, which are going to be pointed out. I know this might be a little hard to see on the screen, but the areas that are called yellow are called out that way. And then the areas in red in the original building that are to be removed are called out and highlighted as well. And so as you can see initially in this first plan on the ground level. And again, what is shown here in the green part is the 1927 portion is elements such as the existing areas that are outlined in red, which I know is a little hard to read there. But this has to do with removal of the stairs. In this case shown in outlined in that indicated area, because we have to accommodate the new way to move to the library and create accessibility for staircases that eventually connect all levels. Let's go to next plan. And furthermore, as we look in a little more detail about these areas here, there are further indications of other, sorry, other staircases. And there's the elevator that exists that is not to code. It's too small that is also going to be removed. And then there are selective areas that have been identified as indicated in the areas in red. Again, there are a lot of notes. I'm sure that many of you have already read through some of these details, but these are the areas in particular that are of attention on the first floor. It will point out the other area that is indicated is the opening from the historic library into the new addition. Again, and just going to have you just have your mouse over these areas, but that that is another part of the project because we have to create the way into the new addition. And that includes opening up areas that are some cases windows and other cases. They were door openings, but or existing openings, but they're having to be widened to accommodate accessibility as well as connections through. Hey, Tony, could I interrupt? I think we're supposed to focus on the, the, the 1990s wing, not what we're doing in the, just to save folks time. Sure. So with respect to the 1990s wing, the areas that are really identified here, what is shown in this plan is really the night is our proposed addition in white. And so that is why it's identified as a white color. And the green colors is simply representing what is that we are taking down the, the 1990s wing, which is sort of overlapping underneath the areas shown in white. And as we continue going up through the billing plans, again, this is now at the second level here. Again, all the 1990s wing is being removed. Then the areas which impact the historic 1927 portion again, it's just areas that are identified in red and any areas that have existing window openings. We are also impacting in certain instances, in many cases, when they, but the new addition, they might be on top of elevators or other areas. So we retained the openings and, and retained the, the window pattern, but behind it essentially will be a blind wall because it, but things like elevators and the like. And as we continue up to the upper level plans, again, just in the bottom plan, the third floor plan, again, the areas identified in red are the areas that are directly impacted in the historic wing. Again, mostly having to do with elevators and, or stairs and then selective demolition or changes. And the elevation standpoint, this is where we particularly focus in on. So in the, in the front of the historic library, this is what you see as you approach the library from the, the main street as you enter it. The area in pink that is looking to the left are areas that are going to be removed. That's part of the 1990s current wing. And the proposed elevation, this indicates how the new design is being added to and what is actually visible and invisible. I mean, what is actually popping up behind the elevation, but in most cases be due to the perspective issues. And these additions are really subservient or in many cases not visible when viewed from a perspective view. On the side elevation here, again, the existing elevation is shown in the black and white outline and the light pink represents the portion that's being taken down from the 1990s edition. And again, the proposed new design is shown in pink that organizes around the additions to the side and then the areas that, that pop up behind the historic building beyond. On the other portion on this elevation here on the north, these areas of the 1990s wing are proposed to be demolished. And then the new design, because the new design essentially infills on this entire north elevation, it is all new facade that you're seeing from the standpoint of the visibility from the back. So that is why this entire facade is all new. And then if I was to come to the west elevation, again, the portion in pink is the 1990s element that is proposed to be removed. And then again, the design for the new proposed addition outlined in pink that is to the left of the existing historic 1927 main library. And I think is that the last, and then there are certain site issues, which I think I'm going to let Rachel speak to these. Thanks, Tony. So we're looking at the Amity side of, of the Jones library from above. There's an existing sidewalk along Amity street with a crosswalk connection to the public parking lot. And then there are existing granite pavers leading up to the main entry and steps. So the main entry is not accessible today. There are planting beds around the front of the library with lilac and roses and some other, other perennials. And then we have an accessible ramp on the, on the eastern part of the south entry and angled spark parking spaces on the side. And next slide. And then on the north side of the library, part of that 1993 addition was to enable a rear entry into the library. And they, in that, in that, in that site work, the project before actually lowered the grades in the back area and dropped in the paths that are there. So they're batuminous paths. There's a kins, the Kinsey garden, which actually has plans to be relocated to the coastal land trust in South Amherst. In this area, there's also a parking turnaround for vehicles who had maybe parked in those angled parking spaces. They have to drive to the back of the site and turn around in the turnaround space and then go back out. And then to the north of the property is the CVS parking lot and where a lot of patrons actually park and walk into the library along the east side of the library. There are a couple of existing shade trees that will need to be removed back here. In part one is growing into a clay sewer pipe. And the pipe needs to be replaced but also part of the addition really encroaches on the root zone. And another tree is in the middle of our stormwater area. We should note that the library parcel today receives a lot of stormwater from the historical society property. And the future design will accommodate that as well. Next slide. So this is a similar view showing our proposed changes. We now have an accessible patio area right at the front entry. So the patio meets the main entry flush with pavers. We're incorporating Goshen stone walls along that edge. Some traditional, more traditional shrubs like cutting hand white rhododendron which is evergreen with beautiful white flowers. And we've introduced a new sidewalk parallel to the library which provides that accessible access. It's under 5% so we don't need railings. It'll be really easy to maneuver and it connects the front of the library to the parking area and out to Amity street. We have reconfigured the parking area out front to have what we call head-in parking spaces which allows you to pull into a parking space and back out without having go wave to the back of the library. We also are introducing trash and recycling enclosure which the library currently doesn't have to screen the trash and refuse on site. That access drive on the east side is now for pedestrians primarily and also meets accessibility requirements. To the southeast of the library we've carved out a children's patio area with an ornamental fence and really cool paving patterns based upon birds and hammers. And then on the west side of the library there's an open-air sidewalk right near the property line that also meets accessibility requirements. Next slide. On the north side we're introducing a reading patio area on the north face of the building. This area incorporates tables and chairs and areas to sit and read or work. We also have several Goshenstone benches that we're making and we use Goshenstone on site. And then we have the rain garden area depressed down in the middle of the north area with raised cross bridges to the back of the main north entry. Next slide. So this plan that you see in front of me, sorry, the plan that we're showing you now just represents your existing first floor plan on the lower level. And as we look at the revised design, the proposed plan here shows the changes in the addition that results in several of the development of the program. We'll get into the details, but it shows expanding large things like meeting spaces, art galleries, collections, special collections, and storage and support as well as accessible toilets and other areas that are part of the program for the expansion. Level one, this represents your existing floor plan and the proposed floor plan with the addition essentially expanding forward. The adult collection are both fiction, gathering area and new materials. The young adults, excuse me, the children and youths areas as well as expanded reading areas, fiction collections and children spaces and then administrative areas for the staff as well. Level two, as you proposed, excuse me, your existing second floor plan and the proposed addition here shows the additional expansion, particularly adult nonfiction areas in the new wing as well as young adults and the second language suite of spaces and then reconstituting the front historic parts for adult reading, technology and administrative areas. And then on the third and fourth plan, and the proposed retains largely the spaces off the third level plan from the Goodwin room and we have additional staff break areas. This also shows the ability to connect with the new elevator and stair to create accessibility to this level, which is shown here and then the proposed fourth floor plan continues as is. So I think is that the last of the slides, please. Okay. So I guess covering up to any questions. Yeah. I was just going to say that it could be helpful to show, you know, what is happening with some of the exterior walls when they, when it's, you know, when the where the new addition is going on the first second floors, if you just go back there. I mean, I think really that's for the demolition review, that's a concern that we have. I mean, obviously you're doing a, you know, removal of the additions in their, in their entirety. So it's really about how does, how does, you know, what's happening with the original structure? I don't know if I can speak to that a little bit. Sure. Way to be helpful to go back to those first set of plans. I think I know it could be a little bit hard to see. Okay. So if we go to the, let's go to the first lower level proposed plan. And I don't know if we we need to enlarge it anyway, just because I depends on what each of you are looking on your screens, it might be a little small, but anyway, we'll try to talk it through. So on the garden level plan here, what you're seeing is the area that again, I think I'll have Joseph cover her mouth necessary. The addition, which basically touches the historic part runs around the perimeter in that L sort of configuration there and then it boxes to the back. So in this case, I believe almost all of what's existing on the historic part large remains intact as is. Again, Joseph, if you want to point out any areas in particular that are directly impacted, such as additional openings, why don't you go ahead and sort of point those out where we are impacting from the historic to the new. So we have some original openings on this north wall here and additional door here. To your point, Tony, most of this line here of the L on the ground level as is remaining as is. And so there isn't a lot. We might actually, after we run through these, we might go back to those first sets of plans that show those original floor plans just so people can relate to what's Yeah, I think it might be easier if people have a hard time following this because I know the green plans, those historic ones, I think we're really zeroing in in areas that we should color code it if that's helpful to explain. Yeah, I mean, I think the proposed plans, you know, it was highlighted definitely would be easier to read. I think the other plans are just they're really large and there's a lot of a lot, you know, a lot going on. So I mean, you could try that as well, I guess, if you zoom in enough to maybe let's let's let's for the sake of let's attempt to do the ones that started with I know there's a lot of dense information there, but I think Josephine is the way if we go back to those and if we have to enlarge areas that zero in, I think that might be helpful to folks. Can I just add one piece of information? So the existing building was modified with the 1990s edition right in a lot of that. A lot of the walls that were once exterior walls are now covered with plaster or chip. Right so there's just there's just a couple of walls that are are the existing stone and and dormers that would be able to see because most of it is covered. So there had been a number of modifications they to in the wing the section on the right they took out which was a raised stage and that there was a quite a few modifications in that wing. They at the back of the historic wall can you just point that out just being where they had lowered I forget I apologize they lower to raise the windows and you can see that in the brick work so just keep in mind this facade that was the original facade was modified in the 1990s edition. I just wanted to throw that out to folks and if you go in there now you don't even know where it is because it's covered. We were we had a visit to the library last week and it was really interesting to be inside and not even realize where certain points of the addition began and started or to have that pointed out. That's a good point. So I think those are the years that just being just pointed out again it's in the mostly in that north ball of the rear there where there are some selective changes in openings for doorways and or windows as it's part of connecting to the new addition but we can promise purpose most of everything else is largely left intact and this level if we go to the next level the main first floor level so again the areas that are that are being modified at the back those are the areas that are color coded in yellow those are the existing openings that are being modified in some cases to create access and opening to connect through the library and then the other marrying areas in the front which is right around the existing entry to currently your 1990s addition we are expanding the width of that opening to create a much wider more accessible way to connect from the historic portion to the new library addition beyond and that is right basically on center. Okay so I just have a question or maybe more of a comment. I mean it's sort of interesting to it's hard to tease these things apart we're trying to address right now just that 1990 structure that's being removed and the changes that you're pointing out well on that interior what's now an interior wall I guess that will come under it's a little confusing like those changes I think come into preservation restriction and not necessarily under the demolition permit request although Nate can correct me if I'm wrong on that and then it with the that north wall that won't be impacted by the demolition of the 1990s section so we can sort of take that north wall and say let's move that over to the preservation restriction part of the discussion I think it's just those interior walls that we're talking about and my only question from just from a total lay person's perspective is wow how do you take a section of a building that's not historic away from this historic part very carefully so I don't know if anybody else else has that you know kind of I mean I wouldn't say it's concerned it's just more of a curiosity that you know is there the potential for any damage to any of the existing historic structure that's not part of the demolition but you are pulling one part of the building away from the other there's potential for that but we will certainly have that you know covered in our drawings so where they where they've attached the existing this addition onto the existing building we may have to patch some of the the historic facade that was once now within this 90s addition so those there's some of that work that we have to deal with but we'll have on our drawings about protecting the existing building as the does Austin noted earlier we have done a lot of work on historic buildings adding to them taking pieces off so we are very familiar on how to protect that building so that's that that's high on our list yeah yeah that's what I it was it that's why again I was just more of a curiosity question and not an expectation that anything would go drastically wrong and are those interior walls will were the in X when they were exterior walls they were covered over will will they be restored do I have that do they exist and will they be restored as part of removing this structure there are walls that aren't covered with with plaster or gypsum if they if they are covered they will most likely remain covered right and in other instances where they are not covered then they become part of the fabric that actually one sees in the addition right right yeah okay is there any further questions about this level okay so with respect again once the 1990s edition comes down the portion that has more direct impact is the areas that Josephine's colored mouse is hovering over so the opening from the 1927 through to the new edition is shown right there that will be enlarged to create that access and then a couple of the existing windows there will be blocked up because effectively we have program elements like elevators and other things which are going to be in front of it but the retention of the openings themselves will remain intact this is on the second floor where you're basically looking if you're at those windows you're looking out over that pointed atrium that's correct right now how do you look like your hand is raised yes this again more from a lay person's perspective but I'm just wondering how the elevator that doesn't meet code anymore and the two staircases that are highlighted in red in the original 1928 building how do you get those removed and does it happen at the same time as the demolition of the 1990 to three edition or not I can answer that Tony I think Eddie that falls under means and methods with the contractor but from my experience the demolition of the 1990s wing is by a different contractor what the work that we do inside will be done by somebody who is more delicate I might say with removal of historic elements so it will not most my best guess it will not be the same time but again that's up to the contractor in the end even though sorry this is a follow up even though I'm not going to be addressing that but I don't know when to ask that question it's just I guess I'm having the problem that Robin had of sort of trying to unpick the demolition from the preservation restriction at this point to look at those changes that are being made on the second on the currently the second floor but I don't know if you understand what the issues are there from a design perspective in terms of accessibility but I'm just I'm just again sort of a bit confused I guess yeah I think maybe a helpful way to think about it is if you if we were to think about the demolition of the edition if we were to imagine only that process happening it's just the demolition of the addition so anything that doesn't happen concurrently with that wouldn't be part of this discussion we'll have the other discussion later but that's what I would suggest just think of you know if they if they came in and they just removed the addition what would our concerns be okay so on this floor again we've got the special fan light window where special collections is currently located and we've got sorry on the first floor at the back of the building a sort of palladian window looking out towards the north side of the building to the garden you mentioned Ellen that the people doing that demolition are not quite as precise as the people who will take care of the staircases and the elevator in the 1928 building so talk a little bit please about how those windows that Jim said would be Jim said the fan light window would be used somewhat in the interior which is awesome just tell me just fill me in on what these means and methods are I guess I'm really curious maybe I shouldn't be I should just have faith but I'm here to try and make sure we have covered everything no those are good questions so the way that we would set up our drawings in the back which I believe is called with the window will be removed before it constructs so we're flagging that on our drawings this is to be removed created in salvage for reinstallation so they'll take that out put it in a crate in a weather protected area until it needs to be reinstalled the palladian window in the back one of the things of the library which is all libraries but especially Amherst is view corridors in security so we need to open up as much as we can the walls so people can see what's going on in the library so what we're proposing to do with the palladian window is cut the window sill down to the floor level to create a doorway and the two side lights will remain all the rest of the mill work will be retained so this goes under more selective removal it wouldn't go in the demo bucket on our drawings if that helps it's very selective but again I hate to say it but we're good at this because we've done it a lot I've done it a lot in my career but I hope that it helps answer your question could you just briefly put up that elevation that shows the palladian window so we can match it to your comments yeah right there I figured out I can draw on zoom which is awesome yes we're going to be cutting it's hard to see don't we have an elevation of this somewhere we anticipated this question it's part of the other presentation presentation it's part of the existing north facade which is not part of the demolition the whipple window we could have another presentation that's going to be a lot of curiosity about how that wall looks on the inside but we can place it aside I wasn't sure I can remember where it was great questions I forgot about those pieces are there other questions Nate I just because I'm on my ipad I cannot make my participant list show up along with the screen so if anybody raises their hand just know that I'm not seeing it I'm not sure we're there yet I guess if you went through these drawings again just to see what's happening at the junction with old and new in terms of changing with the roof or the siding as was mentioned I think with the demolition review what's the impact as Robin said with removal of the 90s edition although it seems like it's minimal there are certain pieces that the commission has identified what I'm hearing is sure if things were to move forward we want to have some conditions that the family window was preserved taking your word for it's one thing I would recommend that that becomes a condition of the commission's decision possibly some other things there's a lot too many questions and maybe we have some agreement and consensus first but if you understand what's happening with the exterior form of the existing library so the roof where the new edition meets I just want to make sure the commission understands it all before we move on I'm not sure that there's clarity right now from the commission members but I just want to make sure we have that I don't know I find the exterior elevations a little bit more helpful to visualize what's going away and I think the issue I think we're seeing tonight is that we are overlapping a little bit between the two portions and it is a little hard to we're trying to be judicious in saying this stops here and then this continues to the next round but I think that the two key ones that I certainly heard with regard to the window window those have the most direct impact on the historic 1927 library with regard to once the 1990s edition is demolished there are other smaller more modest openings that will be impacted that continues frankly into the next aspect of preservation so I think I've heard really those are two really significant ones I mean or you know if you had photos that you had sent I mean I feel like it would be helpful to walk through the photos and annotate and zoom and show well here's what's remaining and here is what's being removed I think that going through those images of the rear of the building and the two east and west would be helpful and then if you like I mean that is part of the next piece and we have existing photos it's not unfortunately we structured this presentation as we tried to be very focused just on this aspect related to 1990s but if you want us to move portions of that into this part we can do that I was going to share my screen in a minute looking at those plans and everything is not and I'm just not getting the sense that it's clarifying and so for instance you know if we're looking you know if I'm sharing this part of the screen right you can annotate and zoom and it could be as simple as saying like okay you know this is being removed or this is going to be saved right up here but that way it's clear to the audience and the commission what's happening or all of this is being demolished I mean it's kind of a broad brush but I think it's easier than trying to look in plan view for instance because I think this is to me a lot more legible you're the one who's sharing this right now yeah but I just circled in orange is the 1990s wing that is being totally removed think of the existing building remaining and we're scooping away gently scooping away the 1990s wing saving this window so all of this is will be gone this is a good way to make it clear and again this piece over here you know this section of the original building remains which will then become an interior wall yeah alright I was going to just open up maybe I'll stop this share and I'll open up one more picture I was trying to get my computer there it'll open up a few yeah I think just so it's clear for everyone and Hedy maybe you have your hand raised maybe we can so does Antonia well you can go first Hedy but my question my question was on that window I was wondering how that was going to be incorporated in the new edition we're going to put it in the historic double height space you know when you get do you know I don't know what it's the rooms called now it's gonna just made you recall what the room is now it's we had we have a proposal as the main reading room on the level so it used to be the historically it was the theater in the building and it's it's got a big you know vaulted ceiling yeah it will go it'll be located in there so this is fascinating you know I mean the reason we're having these questions is because this is a building that was intended to fit with the historic building of 1928 there are a lot of problems this 1993 edition let's blame it on the fact that they're from out of state and they don't understand connect the Connecticut Valley and or whatever we decide but I think you know they're looking down at us and saying hey hey look what you're trying to do now is to take away something that you know has until now with all of its issues we've kind of pulled away from and and I'm just I'm just saying that because I know that there were other times in the history of this project and this is not for FAA or any of the design people it's really more for the town and the trustees there were times in the history of this project when there were other options available that were not pursued and I think we're struggling or I'm struggling with some of these issues and light made I want to see these visual light made visible so that it's clear what we're doing before we get into it could I just say I'm sorry shouldn't we maybe look at the elevations again I don't understand are we going to mark up okay we can mark up each piece yeah I'm sorry I was going to say like you know I have a few images if we walk through them and we could start you know if we go to the top here's when we had looked at and Ellen identified that you know everything here right really in the foreground is the 90s edition will be removed except for that window and here's you know if you look at this again you know what's happening so you know what's happening with this facade since we're all in the mark up phase it's a piece that goes away this piece of the building will now be part of the inside of the new addition which will be in front of it and with regard to the palladium window here again which we can get into the next round but what we are proposing is that we are going to remove this portion to lower down because it's an accessible way from this historic part into the new addition the rest of it essentially remains intact so it's a selective removal of just this opening here and then the historic portion of this again this becomes the inside face of the new addition once we add in front of this if that makes sense right so the brickwork you know the coins on the corner all that stuff will be visible and remain yes let's see a couple of hands up Robin yeah my internet dropped out for a minute there while he was speaking so I caught the end of her comments so I'm just going to speak briefly to the fact just to remind our commissioners that we are focusing on whether the demolition of this 1993 nonhistoric addition has a historic impact on the existing historic structure so larger questions about the library project overall we have two new members on our commission so I just want to make that clear that we have a very specific targeted focus here and that we have an opportunity to permit the demolition we have an opportunity to permit the demolition we have the opportunity to delay it but keep thinking about that just the removal of that structure and the remainder of the building here is the the older building and what is being demolished is the new addition in the back basically from here just in behind the tree but that portion goes the tree stays and then we will go down to the last one the last image showing this area so again from this van from this vantage point in this photograph this part goes and the historic part remains and again with a slight change and a portion here opening this part up but everything else is intact for me that was helpful just to see it I know the plans can show it in more detail I wanted this just so hopefully the commission members to understand it a little more visually thank you that is very helpful allowing us to mark up on your photos I think that is a huge benefit of the zoom that we can do that any other questions? it looks like you have your hand raised I am not sure if you have a question typically after the applicant's presentation I don't have much to say after walking through that there are pieces it is not as if it is a selective project or rehabilitation it is not as if there is a lot happening to the original building I don't have much to add I think we know the significance of the library it is in the National Register District it is a contributing structure it was designed it is a library almost like a house there is a lot there from what I have seen a lot of that is not changing sometimes I have to go into what is happening but I feel that was pretty clear unless there are more questions from the commission we can open it up to public comment I just wanted to specifically ask if you have any questions if you have any questions I just want to say a quick comment I was not able to make the same site visit as you but I did get a tour of what the changes proposed were going to look like in person too great I said as a liaison to the historic commission on the design and review board I have been involved in many presentations of the restoration a lot of my questions were part of the design and review board focused as much on the outside and the demolition I did not have questions but I have been through this presentation thanks for serving that is a new thing you are doing great similarly I was able to get a walk through and ask questions I had there on the site that was addressed I don't have any further comments at this point thank you why don't we open up to public comment if you could manage that if anyone wants to raise their hand we will have public comment Sarah thank you thank you for the opportunity to comment on this my name is Sarah McKee I was a Jones library trustee from 2009 to 2012 and was trustee president and I greatly appreciate the care with which the Amherst Historic Commission is considering this presentation I am also a member of the DC bar and I am recovering from a stroke so if my enunciation is not clear enough I will not be offended if anybody asks me to repeat I think this request is premature I think the point was very well taken about a demolition that might affect historic parts of the building and indeed it was interesting to see from the fine gold presentation that they identify historic parts of the historic building that are proposed to be changed because this is a state register properties on the state register of historic properties and because there is a state construction grant the library and the trustees accordingly have a particular responsibility for historic preservation of the 1920s library they also have a contractual responsibility because of a term of their grant contract and this is by law they must give the Massachusetts Historic Commission the opportunity to identify all exterior things that would include that glorious Palladian window and interior changes that would constitute what are called adverse effects on the state register property then what the library, trustees and the town have never done prior to do this as early as possible in the planning stages of this project is submit to the Massachusetts Historical Commission the changes that they wish to make. I cannot I cannot properly emphasize that this is a legal requirement and I have put the necessary citations in my letter as early as possible in the planning stages of this project was more than six years ago I find it absolutely unaccountable that the trustees and the town have not fulfilled their legal responsibility to submit their materials to the Massachusetts Historical Commission and to participate in the public consultation process to eliminate mitigate and minimize those adverse effects so I would therefore strongly suggest that the Amherst Historical Commission defer any consideration of the changes that the trustees have requested and that the trustees and town first submit their plans to the Massachusetts Historical Commission by regulation it is a pretty brisk process and my understanding is that it would be that the Amherst Historical Commission would be favored if it would participate with that process. Thank you. Thanks. Are there any other public comment? Now would be the time to raise your hand. Just for everyone the packet of information tonight has been uploaded online it's been updated as public comments have been received today on the historical commission website there is a link to packets you have to scroll down through the folders but on the September 14 folder all the information that has been presented tonight has been uploaded in the public comments I think there are six letters some have been received since noon today or even later have been uploaded and emailed to the commission but now is your chance to raise your hand Jeff you can unmute yourself. Thank you Nate. I'm Jeff Lee I live in district 5 I'm particularly concerned about the woodwork I saw some comments in the schematics that millwork would be altered especially in the entryway area the main entrance off of Amity street there's that beautiful staircase made of Philippine mahogany on the right there's the original director's office which I really don't I'm not clear on what the plans are for changes there but there's some nice woodwork in there I've been in that office on the third floor there are the writer's cubicles that I understand are planned to be repurposed those have quite a history themselves with some of Amherst's notable writers using them as offices to conduct their writing and I'm also concerned about I understand there's an elevator being demolished is that right and a new one being erected that the new one well it's not visible head on from Amity street it is you can see in one of the diagrams it is visible from the eastern part of Amity street as you're approaching the library so the historical commission may be concerned about that as well so those are my comments thank you thanks Jeff Hilda you can unmute yourself yes can you hear me hello I would like to ask when you take down the easterly staircase which I think has some very nice woodwork too what happens to that space does it become a big hole or are you going to put another staircase there what happens to it that's one question is are you going to have an opportunity tonight to talk about the design at all of the new structure or is that off the off the board for tonight in other words I have some comments about the building that faces the street on the west side the one that's on by the strong house so first of all what happens to that on the east side where the stairs are going to be removed these are the ones on the east side between the director's office and the east entrance are you allowed to answer that I think usually we wouldn't engage in a back and forth but if those are your comments Hilda we can have the consultants and I think your second question and also release your first we've opened the hearings concurrently for both the demolition review and the preservation restriction because the information is overlapping so I think what we can do is we can hear answers to those questions and because there's overlapping material this will be information for part of the preservation review okay so can I ask my second question before you answer the first or do you want to answer the first I guess I mean I'd like to hear the second question okay the second question was I find the roof lines of the new gambron roof clash with the old roof lines and I don't like the way the building looks on the street to begin with it looks like a cow barn to me but I expect to see the cows getting milk like in the olden days but in any event I think that if the lines of the roof gambra of the angles mimic the ones in the old building it would look less of a pastiche that's just a comment but I would like to know about the stairs what happens in that space where stairs are removed and you have a three-story hole alright thanks Zelda there he is alright and then there's a few more hands raised I'd like to if we wanted to go through that and we can you know table those questions till they were done Jane you can unmute yourself okay thank you all so just a couple of comments I appreciate your efforts to help us understand what's covered by the current edition I just want to jump in Jane can you identify yourself sorry yes Jane Wald resident of Amherst and preservation practitioner for a little while so yeah so just wanted to thank you for clarifying what's covered by the current edition and what will be revealed when that edition comes off I appreciate the identification of modifications to the north facade when the 1990s edition was put on and the care for the potential for damage to the historic structure during the process of demolition so I know this is public comment and not a question and answer but I guess the one thing I'm not really clear on is about the plaster and gypsum covered walls and what their condition is you know whether there is potential for restoration or whether the 1990s work has somehow obscured or made it not restoreable so that's all I have thank you thanks Jane all right Ginny you can unmute yourself hi I'm Ginny Hamilton I live on Middle Street in Amherst currently and while I am directly involved supporting the capital campaign my comments tonight are my own as a resident of Amherst I echo Jane's appreciation of the care taken and you know with 40 years hindsight I wished or 30 years hindsight I wish such care had perhaps been taken in the 1990s I appreciate that what is being taken away is the is the newest addition and would like to point out that this newest addition that is currently causing harm to our library so when we look at the loss when we look at the flooding when we look at the damage that's happening in our current climate and caused in large part because of the leaking atrium which is not repairable I'm grateful that we're looking at ways to remove these elements in order to protect the historic part the truly historic part of our building thank you I don't see any more hands raised excuse me so I would end our public comment portion of this combined hearing and I think at this point we want to move on to the next slide I'm sorry to interrupt you would it be appropriate for me to just say one thing at this point I don't that would be a question for Nate that's fine I'm incredibly grateful for the comments made by Sarah McKee and Jeff Lee they're wonderful citizens of Amherst and I want to respect them enormously I just want to state something as a matter of fact so you all will know we have been in touch repeatedly with the mass historic commission to ask when it would be appropriate for us to come forward and as far as we have been informed we are fully in compliance with their requirements we contacted them when we were in really a stage of schematic design we contacted them at design development and we were told the same thing which is it's too early for you to come to us Sarah McKee, my former colleague and friend has been appropriately vigilant about this issue many times to the historic commission as well as to the Massachusetts Board of Library commissioners they're fully apprised of her concern and again I just want to say just as a matter of fact we have been in regular touch with the Massachusetts historic commission and have been told by staff members that we are doing exactly what we should be doing thank you yeah I actually was going to reiterate that as well when Jane Wald was our chair previously she also made similar comments that there is a point in the construction process that is later down the line that MHC wants to see plans as close to complete as possible because they are it takes a lot of time to review and it doesn't suit anyone's purposes to have one review that changes and then needs to be submitted again I myself worked with City of Greenfield in their housing rehab project and we did not submit the project notification form you sometimes refer to it as the PNF for our housing rehabilitation projects until we had a final spoke of work and so as early as possible sounds like it should have been a long time ago but it really means as early as possible and at the appropriate time a PNF submitted six years ago would probably be pretty much useless at this point would have to be entirely revised so that's a bit of technical stuff for our commissioners too and members of the public to take in their opinion on that with most of the people who are involved in this project and I just wanted to reiterate that do you have any comment on that Nate? No, I think earlier tonight we had mentioned that if there's other reviews related to whether it's the product notification form or tax credits or any other program or process the commission would meet again tonight we're focusing on the demolition and then if we move on to it the preservation restriction review so I think there's overlapping jurisdictions here and maybe that the commission meets a few times to discuss this project for different purposes and actually I have a note here I realize that this just procedurally raised kind of a question or potential clarification so we're here you know normally when the commission meets with somebody like you said with the demolition request before us they're looking to demolish an entire structure and they're looking to do it pretty quickly this demolition I assume is not going to be a separate part of this project it's going to be a part of the project so that the demolition itself would fall under the PNF and would be reviewed by MHC so we would be giving permission from the commission and MHC would still be looking at that is that a correct assessment? Nate? Yeah I think they'd be both looking at the demolition and then also the new addition right right so it would be we would be giving permission but it's still going to have those eyes looking at it because it's going to be part of this whole project that's going to be need to be reviewed by other the other appropriate authorities so that's the review we're having tonight right according to our local bylaw yes. So do any commissioners want to comment or discussion at this point or if there is no comment or discussion forth emotion I'm going to be like the teacher and start calling on you just to make things clear just to make things easier Heidi do you have any further comment or discussion at this point you're muted do you mean related to the demolition delay yeah the request for demolition permit yes I have one question which is about what provisions have been made for the demolished material in the town of Amherst we pride ourselves on the climate awareness I'm just aware that there's a lot of embodied carbon in the 1993 additions building and I want to know a little bit more about that maybe right now isn't appropriate but I'm going to ask the question anyway yeah if the architecture team has any information on the demolition I don't have any information on the demolition I don't have any information with any materials or be reduced or anything pertinent well it's I can't say a lot of it will be reused but it will be recycled that is a good question that had he asked I think the presentation has helped us to understand exactly what part of the building is that thanks Pat Antonia do you have any questions or discussion not at this moment I think it's been quite clear okay I don't have any questions either so at that point the question is do we have someone who would like to make a motion a motion could be to permit for the 1992-1993 structure it could also be a motion to impose a demolition delay I propose a motion that we consider the demolition okay so Pat has put forth a motion that we issue a demolition permit for the demolition of the 1992-93 structure I think that's correct Pat putting words in your mouth I will second that motion I was going to jump in and just throw in conditions that were discussed tonight one would be for the protection of the existing building and then the removal of the window and I think also the palladium window as presented the palladium window is actually not part of the demolition it's part of the existing historic structure it's the preservation part that we're talking about sorry about that that's okay I know it's very confusing so we'll talk about the palladium window later so Pat's motion amended with Nate's suggestions to include conditions for the careful preservation of the existing structure during demolition and the careful removal storage in reuse of the Whipple window and I second that motion and so if there is no further discussion which I don't think that there is we can go forward with a roll call vote does everybody under we have two new commissioners does everybody understand what we are voting on okay so Pat I vote in the affirmative Antonia I vote affirmative I'm abstaining I vote affirmative and I vote affirmative as well so I'm so used to unanimous votes how many was that Nate we're one abstain right 4-0-1 would be the vote okay 4-0-1 so the motion passes and the demolition permit will be extended I'm assuming you will be in touch with everyone who is needs to be informed okay great thank you everyone so I think at this point I close the demolition hearing me and then it's 8-08 we can talk about what we'd like to do with the remainder of our time and dealing with the preservation restriction so if that's the case then the hearing for demolition is closed at 8-08 p.m. on the 14th of September so it works for me I think the I would say quickly the you know so the next the hearing that has been opened is the review according to the preservation restriction and it requires that changes be reviewed so the national park standards you know the there's different categories here it's rehabilitation so it's a rehabilitation project and there's standards at 4th that the commission will be using additionally the restriction lists as an exhibit it's not an exhaustive list but what things are considered major or minor alterations to the site as part of that exhibit unless you know removal of mature trees or landscape features would need to be reviewed by the commission as would any demolition or addition and change in materials or design and so the restriction doesn't prevent changes it just requires that it go through a review process and so you know part of what the reason why the hearings were opened together is that we've heard a little bit about what's happening and what's happening to the building the preservation restriction is really again only concerned with the exterior of the 2728 building so you know all those interior changes are things that you know if they're you know if they are visible or if they somehow relate to the structure of the building then they're particularly relevant but otherwise some of those other changes will be part of a discussion at another meeting a later meeting and so I don't know if that's a good enough intro and if we want Robin if you have anything else to add you're muted. Yeah no I don't have anything to add at this point I think I mean and then I'll add something I mean I think there's a lot of there are a lot of items here that I think we should be looking at with Nate before just figuring out how to structure this meeting to focus on the demolition first and now we have to consider the preservation restriction our capacity to approve changes to the exterior and then advisory comment on changes to the interior but without a list in front of us of items to go through item by item I don't know if you want to weigh in on quite how to direct that discussion at this point Nate I don't know if you want to weigh in on yeah I mean I think if you know if the library if there's a presentation you'd want to walk through you know we thought if we started with the site you know the gardens have already been reviewed but if we want to do site demolition first and then we can stick with the 27 building the addition and how that's compatible so we could compartmentalize the review in terms of those three pieces and so really you know what you know for instance there's a request avenue roofing material on the library and you know there's a few maybe a few other changes to the original building and so those would be taken separately from the addition and when we look at the addition right now it's really about the massing scale you know fenestration patterns, voids things would be looked at we talked about the addition so I don't know if that makes sense for everyone we could start with the landscape and site I think that makes sense and I think we actually I believe a structured representation to do just that right so I think that's fine and I just wanted to ask Nate what just to have a since it's 812 now what we want to think about is an end time for this particular meeting and possibly having a well I think most likely having a continuation going forward yeah I mean I guess that's for the commission members and everyone you know we have 16 attendees right now so a few have well are now panelists but you know a few you know there's a few that may not stay too much later this is being recorded so it'll be available on zoom we can always watch it after it'll be posted online tomorrow yeah I mean you know sometimes we could even take a break in a few minutes right now before the presentation or if we're ready we could say we'll let's go to 9 or 915 and then we'll continue it to a date certain I mean we could give ourselves an hour more I mean that's kind of up to the commission and everyone here and the panelists okay from the commission members what is your availability 915 work for everyone or actually just go ahead and unmute yourself if it doesn't work for you I'm going to assume that I didn't hear anybody so everybody can go to 915 so let's do that do we want to take a break that seems like if we're going to go to 915 that would be a good idea maybe take a five minute break oh and in terms of the presenters too does that time work for you as well it does thank you very much for asking okay all right yeah so why don't we take a break and 813 we could just say like a few minute break we'll be back you know in three three four minutes okay sounds good okay great this is a nice group we don't often get a break so thank you yeah I just had a quick dinner yeah I need a refill thank you okay what's the image behind your background yeah it's town hall back in the day how nice I think it's appropriate for the store it is yeah I change it for every meeting now it's probably it's been it's been quite a bit of time I think we could probably jump back I don't see Austin maybe they're here just not visible there's Jim I guess we could pull up the presentation just yeah why don't we just do that okay so I think we'll just get started and I think we're going to pretty much follow your your script Nate so I think we're going to just have an overview of the site and then talk about the building so this is this is a view an aerial view kind of showing all the adjacent buildings and streets adjacent to the library just to orient us what you guys have seen earlier today we've got the north press but parking lot or CVS is on the north side the strong house and history museum to the northwest Amity Street to the south and then the works the Drake and the fire station on the east side next line there's some images of what the exterior site looks like today so a view of the front of the library from Amity Street from the parking lot across the street where a lot of public park and walk in the raised crosswalk the public sidewalk the tent structure that it had developed around the time of the COVID pandemic and sometimes was up and that that main entry which it has a step up so it's not currently accessible a view of that side entry that is accessible with the ramp and the railing we will be taking down that railing and we'll be reconfiguring this side access so that it is a smoother transition into the library some views of the of the Norway spruce from the historical society property we did walk the site with Alan Snow the tree warden in town and talked at length about how to protect both the historical societies Norway spruce and the historical society Sycamore heritage tree during construction so that's something that we're really really we really care a lot about the landscape which again we believe is part of the 1990s edition regrading and landscaping the plant material is being relocated to the South Amherst location and then in the far right corner is that north entry today it's really hard to see from the CVS parking lot and you know with all the bushes and the terrain and the grade and the water and the the wall touches the existing property line that will be maintaining that property line boundary in their project next slide in the process we looked at some old historic postcards of the library in the 1930s through 50s and it kind of gave us a clue of what the original landscape might have been out front it's interesting that there was and then parallel parking alongside the building where we now have ankle parking there were some whole mountain light poles and minimal landscaping out front which does not remain today next slide so these are some landscape sections elevations so the first the top view is looking kind of cutting cutting the ground plane looking at the building showing you how gentle those new sidewalks are that we're proposing and how they connect down to the parking lot for that accessible entrance there will be two new Goshen stone walls to flank the main entry that you would pass through to get into the main door then on the north addition again we have a very level reading patio terrace off of that new addition and then in that northwest property line boundary we're softening the wall and introducing a terrace wall that could be seating next slide on the west side so the side of the faces north prospect street we're going to remove a lot of the vegetation along that side for maintenance and for visibility and then again that exit door off of the west side of the library children's area emergency egress we have a fully accessible walkway out to amity street the children's area you can see screen from the street with with the cutting-hand whites road agenda on the east side we're looking at the section through the street the amity street sidewalk the parking area and then going down to where the dumpster enclosure is and the accessible walk all the way to the back next slide in terms of materials as we think about structures in the landscape we're trying to keep in character with with downtown and with the 1920s 28 27 building any of the fencing or railings on the top on the top of a wall or the railing the railing enclosure around the children's area is more like the ornamental fence in the top middle of the screen the dumpster enclosure is like what you see here in the upper right-hand corner it'll screen they'll have a gate and be fully enclosed and then we do have a set of four steps along the front we imagine that some people might be taking a shortcut through these are the type of railings that would be used they they are we have used them effectively at Amherst College and other other places and have gotten accessibility board to agree that these are acceptable in the children's patio area we're looking at using stamp concrete and have identified 12 birds of Amherst that we will stamp their feet feather and outline patterns in the concrete for kids to color in or to walk through on paths and then in the back in the rain garden we have a middle grade walkway with railings curb railings that need ADA requirements along the side next slide in the front we will be repurposing the ocean stones benches and site walls and then in the back we'll have more contemporary working tables and seating tables of different heights for kids, folks in military and people who may want to stand we also have bycracks both at the front and at the back that are fairly simple and clean lines the view in the upper left hand corner is a plan from above looking at that north entry to the library on the left hand side the yellow line is a new retaining wall that we are placing along the historical society property kind of tying into that same footprint where the existing wall is but extending a little bit more for access to the west and the retaining wall and the library new library addition wall we've actually created a really cool gathering space with catenary lighting crushed stone paving and movable chairs and we're proposing flowering vines along the wall too for a little bit of seasonal green and interest next slide as part of this process we did do a really deep look at what hardscape materials are on site and how we could reuse them in the landscape so there are quite a bit of ocean stone pavers of different sizes granite pavers at the front entry and granite benches the granite pavers we are planning for repurposing them the granite bench we're hoping to reuse in the rain garden area either as a bench or part of those bridges and then the ocean stone can be repurposed as the ocean stone benches that we have both at the front and then at the back next slide these are just more of the materials on site the back stone wall that borders the CVS parking lot but those stones can be repurposed again in the features I mentioned and that stone wall in the middle right will be removed to make room for a bigger space adjacent to the new addition next slide this is a summary of those materials on the square foot it is that we've calculated for use on the project next slide we thought about the landscape both at the front and the back we were trying to think about what color palettes and textures might be appropriate for the front we're keeping a really minimal color palette with evergreens, soft green textures and a couple accents of purples and whites we did go through a series of studies of different trees to print out front and settled on the beautiful yellow magnolia where we have two of those flanking the front and then can plant bulbs and within the beds adjacent to the the Rotodendromes next slide at the back on the north side of the property adjacent to the CVS lot that will be functioning as a stormwater garden in time that will be very shaded and more damp so it's an opportunity for mosses and ferns and sedges with some accents of purples again keeping sight lines open allowing stormwater and also kind of creating a garden feel next slide so up front we'll retain the two existing Chinese dogwoods that are on the corner of the southwest and southeast corner of the building and then we'll remove the lilac and the rose bushes that are underneath those they are intensive to maintain the existing plantings there and what we are proposing does not require trimming and it would be easier to maintain so we'll have the evergreen Rotodendromes underneath those kind of creating two outdoor rooms on the southwest and southeast side of the library one for the children's area one for the informal gathering underneath a sourwood tree great to read a book in the shade and then the two areas where the Buttercup Magnolia are proposed out front kind of flanking the front of the building but again not blocking the use of the building from the street and providing a little bit of shade and then we're proposing oak beef hydrangea and the rest of the library kind of screen the parking but still have sight lines over we did get some feedback from the design review board that a portion of this might want to be a lower plant material so we're looking at substituting that with another plant that maxes out around 18 inches on the lower part of that next slide and the back because we are having to remove three shade trees and then we'll be protecting an existing maple tree by the old shed we'll be planting other shade trees that do really well and the wetter soil conditions because this area is receiving stormwater from both the library and from the historical society property so the swamp white oak is something that really can handle what feet as can the sassafras and the willow oak but also these are trees that are adapted to climate change as our climate warms these are trees that will be able to continue to provide shade and habitat and benefit to pollinators in addition we have proposing a fringe tree in the north again to kind of help a little bit with softening that canopy and providing some seasonal interest and then in the ground plane we're using a mix of mosses, rinds and sedges and bulbs next slide sight lighting we heard from the designer before there's a real need to make sure that north side is well lit and so we've been working with a lighting designer to work through the foot candles to make sure those are evenly dispersed upon the site and we've presented it at our site plan package light fixtures themselves again kind of keeping with the aesthetic of downtown Amherst we're looking at whole-mounted site lights within the walking paths at the back that are 10 feet high so they feel much more personal in the back they are full cut off so they do not have a lot of of the top of the fixture to help minimize light pollution and the parking lot we have an arm-mounted fixture that mimics the light fixture that's out front of the library in the same shape of fixture and arm and that's a little bit higher on a 12 foot height next slide I think Tony will talk us through the site lighting on the building to create a lighting that is appropriate both in character and lighting quality with respect to exterior building lighting and the fixture images that you just see in the lower right underneath the chart just represents the type of lighting fixtures that we are proposing most of which are discreet and understated so I think we'll now move into the changes to the 1927-28 building again what we see here this is the existing south front elevation the area in pink are to be demolished and I will point out there's one small area that I think Justin you want to circle that is where the proposed foot drop off is being located to the right of the existing entryway and then here we can see the proposed south elevation what this demonstrates again is that the new addition is largely hidden it's massing as we believe appropriately it's scaled and lower than the historic main portion of the library itself as we took towards the existing east elevation here we see again where the proposed areas are being removed in 1990s addition and then at the front of the east elevation there are selective areas where we are going to be removing the ramp that exists on the left that Justin is outlining along with the steps and then to the far right there are some existing openings that are going to be modified and adjusted and here again you can see the proposed addition to the right of the existing building and then the lighter shape of pink is where the new addition is really behind the historic 1927-1928 wing and then you can see to the elevational changes that entrance to the side area that Rachel has enabled us to create a slope walkway that eliminates the need for handrails and we are adding just a handrail balustrade condition there to just make sure people don't fall off the edge there this thing north elevation this again shows where the 1990s portion in pink is being removed and then the proposed new addition which comes forward of the existing 1927 building as described before this is in proud of it but the historic fabric of the 1927 addition essentially becomes indoor space and the materiality and the expression of it is preserved or restored to a great extent and this shows what we are proposing and then on the west elevation again the area in pink highlights what is being proposed to be demolished from the 1990s portion and then the proposed new west elevation as you can see again shown in pink in this particular view the other aspects that we are proposing is of impacting the window head and jam details in respect to the glazing because the existing glazing is single pane in order to meet energy and current codes as well as improve efficiency we are proposing to put new windows that are going to be insulated glazing units but we are going to create the sash elements of windows to essentially match the existing finish and style to retain the historic appearance and to ensure that the change minimizes the visual impact while increasing the energy efficiency as a result of placing a contemporary window system in place of the existing here you can see that we were asked to identify new windows that are being proposed and changed so starting with number one the lower right is the existing image the upper left is the rendering we are going to propose a new synthetic slate roof on the existing building the areas that are identified as such in number two we are going to create these new windows that are just described but are going to match the existing profile and subdivided by appearance there will be new gutters and downspouts that will be installed but to match those that exist and we will provide new paint approximately 10% of the painted surfaces that exist on the historic building and as we turn to this other view again the lower image on the right is existing and proposed rendering is the upper left so again points out where we are proposing the new hung existing the new windows number two to match those existing with replacement glazing again number three is repointing the 50% of the masonry and number four again is the new gutters and downspouts to match those existing and again number five is to new paint 10% of the painted surfaces as indicated I think it's a typo it's 100% sorry not 100% it may be 100% of what the total area is paintable and then the synthetic slate here we can see the materials of the roof so this is the proposed synthetic slate shown in the lower left and then the lower right is an example that such a synthetic slate was used on a on another project on the proposed addition sorry I just before you go I just just because we've covered the site in the building we're going to do a section of the fix. Yeah I just yeah maybe I don't know before you go maybe we'd ask Robin and the commission what they want to do if you want to stop and talk about this it's 844 do you want to go through the rest of it and then thinking given the time maybe we just talk about the two sections that were presented objection, then, yeah, we can stop there and discuss what's been presented so far. I had some questions. But I'm not as familiar with landscape as much as I am with having recently completed a preservation degree. I have questions about the secretary, the interior standards and not retaining the original windows or replacing the replacement of the slate roof with a synthetic. And then I just had sort of a technical question about repointing which I'm pretty sure you're familiar with that. Since the CPA is funding part of the project, and we have to align with the secretary standards. I'm, you know, I'm familiar with them from an academic perspective but not from, you know, a professional practice but my understanding would be that it would be unusual to replace an recreational existing historic window with with a with a replication and similarly the slate roof I'm just curious what you're, and I'm sure your firm has a lot of experience with us. How, how those things get get justified when dealing with the secretary standards. Jim, do you want to answer this particular query with respect to that. Yeah, so I think on the windows. The question is, you know, is as operable versus what's there and condition so what we determined at this point is that the condition of the windows is such that they could be justified as for being replaced in kind. I think, or windows on the building which, you know, do some sort of done what the tracks from the character of the original building so we would be able to still be efficient and remove the storm windows with a new window. So, we'd like to follow that approach now at some point, you know, we do have to demonstrate that. And I think we think we feel confident we can do that. Otherwise, it's a repair and fix up job and and with the single glazing, you know, you're just the energy issues are just not met with that. So, so I think. I just quickly saying with the windows, it looks like it's true divided light right now. Yes, the question is, would it where there still be exterior grills and then are is the amount of glazing, you know, the actual width of the window, the sash, staying the same so it's not, you know, sometimes windows actually have a smaller glazing percentage right there it's a smaller. The concept is to really match the existing size of the mountains, so that the size will be, I believe, pretty much exactly what's there now. And the month and the mountains will match in profile. We've had pretty good luck now these days with people remaking, you know, wood windows of quality. Several companies and I hadn't had good, good luck with that. So, so the idea is that the window sash will all be replaced and it should match in profile in dimension the existing. And the slate roof slate roof we've also run into this and I know that the standards do allow that in cases of, you know, well it is it's it's a very expensive operation. The slate roof I think our investigation shown that you know it's, it's not in great shape and there was a lot of repair work done when the addition was built. But it really is getting near the end of its life so it seems like the time to replace the roof for the first part, using the substitute material really has become sort of as you know it's an economic issue to a degree we have done this several years and we've identified historic restoration projects, even at the federal level. So, it's a question that we would like to propose that has something here as well. Okay. And specifically with the roof right now there is looks like copper flashing maybe, you know, at different break points like above the dormitory windows and in the roof so are you proposing. What are you proposing then for like say the flashing and like drip edge detail. All copper would be copper. The valleys and the caps and things yes and the copper and the gutter. All right and the chimney caps that are there they're all remaining right so nothing's being removed from the chimneys that. Nothing's being removed now. So, I have a question, if I may, going back to the windows and I understanding that they will replicate, but the energy efficient to what exists now. Yes, because they'll be double glazed, the glazing is just single, you know, right now. So they will match, but they'll have two two panes of glass with an airspace. But they will, they will effectively look like what the original windows are. Yes, that's correct. Okay. And I think you answered my question about the roof in that it would need repair and replacement, which could be prohibitive cost wise if it were slate. That's, yes, unfortunately with the budget limits we've got it's going to be it would be prohibitive. Part of the slate roof be be preserved like the facing Amity Street. You know this. Well, I think we really would have we'd have to investigate it. No, we have done that sorry, Jim. It is beyond its life. That's the trouble. One of the things that we're going to try to do is the portion of the historic building that will now be inside of our new addition. We're trying to reuse that existing slate because it's not, it's not keeping up the weather anymore so what you'd be we're trying to do this what you're when you're in the library and you can see the existing wall in portion of the roof. We're going to try to keep that slate intact. But the slate on the on the Amity Street in all that all the slate that will be exposed has it's at the end of its life. Thank you. And so I just quickly the gutters are you still going to do like the half round. Same profile that is there now or is it. That's the intention. Yes. And then, you know, I know earlier versions of synthetic slate had problems with like cupping and warping. You know, I don't know how, you know, if the what you're proposing to use if that's an issue. The product has improved a lot because we did use some very early on and we had some issues too. I think, you know, we just need to drive it home with the manufacturer and make sure we get the right warranty on the roof but the record lately as I understand it has been quite good for the maintenance and the longevity. Nate, did you have some questions about the profile of the, is it the HVAC equipment that's on the roof or. That'd be probably with the addition, not the existing. Oh, okay, right. Yeah. And I'll make, you know, doors and everything I mean that I just want to make sure, you know, again that we're not missing anything but the existing doors entry ways. At one point in one of the plans it was proposed to have some type of trellis over the main front door but that's not the case anymore. At one point it was like some plexiglass idea like plexiglass. Right. Or something is that. Yeah, no that we are not doing that. But all the so the existing doors remain or are they going to be replaced with something that looks similar or the same. Ellen, do we have an issue with the main entry door. No, no. Yeah, the doors we're keeping. They're in good shape. They need to be refurbished. So it'll be refurbished. It'll be new hardware. We know the that front door, it's really kind of a masterpiece so that'll remain and get restored so it's back to what's original conditions. Especially that wonderful broken pediment in the front. Don't find those often. All right, and then in further sight. Thanks Rachel. So, you're keeping just because the restriction requires you know mature landscaping or things to be reviewed and sometimes it's like you know, I see it as you know what kind of landscaping was it was it original to the building what was the purpose of what's there and so you know almost everything that's there now has been added to after the fact and so sounds like really you're keeping the dogwoods and then proposing all new plantings along the front. You know kind of a low, low evergreens to you know act as a, you know, like a fence or enclosure first and outside space but really it's not going to detract from the view of the building is that. It's actually going to increase visibility of the building where right now the lilacs are kind of taking over and blocking the view so you're going to have a really beautiful view of that that stone facade and all the windows and for many street. One of the things we were always curious about is we never found a formal landscape plan from the original drawings. There were some photo early photographs but there was never apparently a formal landscape plans. And then I think there's a there's a sign or there was a sign and bike racks out front, there's a sign that she said the Jones library is that is that I don't know if that's even there anymore. There's a wooden sign that I believe the project is removing the sign, but the signage for the project as a whole will be coming, coming back for review as a separate review. Okay. To commissioners have any questions or comments. It's really great to see this presentation again I had listened in on the design review board and I really am happy with the landscape site plan. It really shows how carefully you've studied the original building even if you didn't have a landscape plan. And I love the choice of the yellow Magnolia I think there's a beautiful one or two at the UMass campus and that's really really a stunning choice there. I'm worried about the book drop, the visual nature of a book drop in a in a placement by that window I on the tour we were, it was explained to us how the whole automated book drop system will be working within that space. I just wonder about the sort of asymmetry really it's a, you know, suddenly we have to see this new book drop on an extremely beautiful facade so I'm just curious about that. And on the West elevation. I had an opportunity to look at a lot more historic photographs of the, the theater inside the building and at some of the barrel vaulting that I think seems to me to be the sort of historic respect that you have carried through into the new edition and I like that very much. I still have a question about the scale and massing of that west side and the north side it just feels larger than it needs to be it may be that you had square footage considerations that you were needing to meet I see Ellen nodding head. You know, I've worked in an architect's office and I know this is tricky. And I think, I think the reason I'm going to keep banging on about it is just that that that original building has a beautiful sense of a hierarchy of form from the 1928 time period. And I don't see that in terms of the, of the addition. It's not that I'm looking for for a contrast because I know that you've created that. I'm looking for some sense of the continuation of that idea of massing to create the Connecticut River Valley house, large house for Amherst, and I'm looking to try and see that in the north and west facades that are part of the new edition. I don't speak to that. I mean it's a good question. I think, you know, I have again a very preliminary understanding of the appropriate balance of an addition to a historic structure and I'm looking at it from the front you can see that you know you really do to retain that balance of the original building and then the north facade has, you know is obviously the biggest change but also you don't, the historic part of the building isn't drawn into it so it's sort of like, you know, kind of more acceptable that it's a new new side and a lot of us here, I mean, had he has a really strong background but a lot of us here aren't as familiar with, you know how you professionally go about designing something like this especially given space requirements and that sort of thing. I'll talk a little bit about the program but Tony will pick up on the design but you're right. The building is the size it is because of the program right you hit the nail on the head. But at our site. It is, you know, if you're looking at from Amity Street we have the big cut out in the back so we're really limited on what we could do with this so it is it is. I forget the exact square footage of the additions but but it's big but it's it's the program is what is required for, you know, a current day in hopefully future library to accommodate all the needs of the library so that's the program so that was our project that we did. And I'll let Tony pick it up but we did try to keep that the original building as the gem that it is right and we didn't want to compete with it. And so we are addition is on the quieter side. So we're not competing. And thanks Helen I think what we were also attempting to do as much as possible as you can see it I believe in this view especially the addition here we were trying to scale it as modestly as we could, given the extent of program that we had to provide and accommodate the library. And so the, the form of it does have sort of now we say contemporary interpretation of the gamble ends of the existing historic library and it is purposely kept lower in massing especially relating to the main historic front so I would not tend to dominate it. And I think the other thing that we were sensitive to is in the nature of the materiality of it, we're trying to keep the materials very simple and very quiet. I think the beautiful nature, as you pointed out about this historic building it isn't it is beautiful building part of the quality of that is the nature of the materials, in particular the stone and other elements so, in order to not compete with that. We are purposely keeping the nature of the break on very quiet and very understated and sort of very muted we are trying to be a backdrop to the historic portion of the of the main library itself. And so that was the attempt to really mess it. I think the other thing I will point out in the nature of the library itself, part of the way that we about the windows and the dormers that you see here. It was also very important to try to bring as much natural light as we can into the library, it is a fairly deep plan. There's a lot of spaces that are being programmed in this library. And it's on several levels and in order to fulfill, in particular the nature of the program spaces and the way the patrons and the community would use a library. We know the importance of natural daylight, and so trying to enhance lighting for bringing in the outside plus the views from the library to the outside, I think are equally important so I think we were queuing in off of, you know, features elements of the nature of breaking down dormers and scale scaling items like that, in order to accomplish ability to bring light in, but but in any more contemporary way that wasn't trying to mimicry, but compliment so these are some of the guiding principles that we looked at carefully and we and we did look at a lot of different ideas relating to massing and scale and we felt trying to attempt to break the scale down was really the key in trying to be a background building was the other key. Thank you very much. Yeah, can you speak to the north facade a little bit. Sure. We go to the next few. I think it's one, one rendering back. I'm not sure it's from the backside. Yeah. Okay, while we're on this view. Yeah, okay, we don't have but we're on this view. The other thing I think that we're still pointing out here is that the nature of the addition. It is really deferred is way back in the right hand corner. You almost hardly see it. So again, trying to preserve the main historic library that the feeling of the library, particularly on the L shaped plan of the historic 1927 part and trying to preserve all the, you know, wonderful characteristics of it. It's really paramount in the way we designed the addition so that everything here really tends to again scale back defer in sort of background and backdrop it so that the main historic legibility of the library from the front, particularly along the main street and on the street. This is what drove us in the way we designed it. And these are the things that we attempted to do. I'm sorry we don't, because we don't have the rear north elevation. I guess the only thing I can point to is in the design of that. We also took the idea, and maybe, maybe the elevation to the elevation, we can talk to that. Let's talk to that. Excuse me. Yeah, actually, let's go back one more elevation. I think the one on the, what is it on the east. Well, here. Okay, so this was the first one. That's that was the perspective that we just saw a minute ago. So, here you can see the addition on the far right. Here's a nod towards the gambrel and, and we're trying to keep the, you know, the spring point of the roof elements and all the things to sort of really genuflect against the historic components so that we really try to scale down mass and I think by by allowing the to occur. And in this case, the width of it is sort of matching the width of the component to the left on the historic building attempts to really feel like it's part of an assemblage and some ways it's breaking out the scale just to really be part of that language. So, again, this is the attempt to really manifest the massing to really relate and sort of also defer. So these are the things that I think where the guiding principles with respect to for example this east elevation that you see here. If we go to the, I think let's go to the west elevation next. Excuse me. So here, I think what we're trying to take advantage of several instances is that the spring point for the roof element that that extends off the brick wall. I think Justin, you just want to point that out. And we're trying to again use the scale of this to really break it down so that when the new addition roof form begins to fall back on itself and create those dormers and we're trying to keep the wall massing intensely low on the front base. In order to again defer and try to scale back against the historic library and you can see clearly that the roof element and the height of this new addition is substantially lower than the main body of the front historic library. That you can see that Justin is showing this peak of that gambrel and I think the other thing here you can you can see on the far left again that that extension of that gambrel and is a simply a repeat of what I just showed you a minute ago on the east elevation on the far left. So the notion of breaking the scale down and the massing of the addition and we try to take advantage of the fact that while it is, you know, clearly adding quite a bit more space. By breaking the massing down to two forms like this with their sort of talking to one another and in a way, speaking to each other, it's attempting to use the nature of the gambrel and as an inspiration but to use that language to inform the design. So here again you can see the ideas to really take that and to take these elements here to scale the overarching approach. One thing I will say that because the site does drop, as Rachel pointed out the landscape issue, we're able to keep the scale of this west elevation also fairly low, because it doesn't drop substantially until we get to the far left, as we head towards the north. So, this is the other area which we're attempted to be cognizant of. Again, then the introduction of the dormers is a nod towards the dormers that exist, but in a more contemporary way to allow daylight and views to come into the new addition. And I guess we can go to the last elevation, which is the north. Excuse me. So here, this is, of course, the library shows to the largest extent and because at this point the site is dropping a full story from the front to the back. We do have a higher volume here as it relates to the overarching site, but one of the things I think we're trying to take advantage of if we can is that even here, the nature of the building is still broken down into several components, which allows us to scale back the element on the far right again is, you know, it is a sort of reinterpretation of the gambrel form to keep the scaling of this more modest. The air to the left shows the element that is turned 90 degrees to it, and therefore, thanks to gambrel ends facing each other in the notch in the corner. So the glazed curtain wall system, the attempt is to really bring light, lightness to the addition also to break down the scale, as one comes to the north elevation and to not admit natural daylight, particularly to the reading areas within the library, but to allow the sort of forms to read or distinctly in a part. This is helps to achieve a scale break. And then on the portion on the left, which is the north elevation of this facade. That component there, which is, I know it's just all flat elevations that we attempted to create this sort of expressed element that sort of holds forward a little bit again to break the scale of that facade down on the north to while also bringing daylight into key program spaces within the library. So, so all those things where we were trying to really minimize as much as possible, the massing, the height, the scale, the relationship and the materiality and the way that the buildings are attempting to sort of play complement but also backdrop to the historic library itself. Thank you. I think one of the challenges is that to net the flatness of the elevation and not seeing the rendering on the side. It strikes me as more modern but now that you know you put it in context I kind of see what you're, I see what you're saying, and having a rendering of it with help visualize it more in connection with the rest of the building thank you. You're welcome. I want to bring us back, you know, we looked at the site and the current, you know, the existing original building. And, you know, we're reaching our time limit so I guess, you know, how do you ask about the book drop in the front and I, I'd like to see, you know, either alternatives or an image of what that would actually look like not just a drawing so you know, I mean I think the symmetry of the front is really important to the design and so, you know, that does add something especially if the entries going to be remain visible and so, you know, for next time and be great to have, you know, a little bit more information about that. I think the retaining wall in the back. You know, it's a pretty big retaining wall along the historical society property, with possibly a fence on top and I'd love to see, you know, either images or renderings or something that explains that a little bit more. So that will be a visual feature. There are illustrative plans site plans in the packet so I think we can look at those for next time I think it helps explain the whole landscape in site. And then the one thing with the slate I'd love to know more about that warranty, Jim that you mentioned and so you know are there projects where that could be referenced that you know the life. You know, how, how, you know, is it five or 10 years where you know what's, what's kind of the history of a newer synthetic slate roof that what's, you know, what's the lead, you know, the maintenance free time. You know, is it, what does that expectation. And, you know, because for next time we can focus on kind of this addition. And so for the addition I'd like to see a roof plan I think you're showing a little bit here but I know there's going to be like H back on the roof and I'd like to know more about what's happening up there in terms of screening of that and you know what's the visual impact of that so, you know, a roof plan or perspectives or something I think, you know, Robin said that these elevations are flat and sometimes hard to interpret and so if there's any way to do that. I mean so you know, I'd even suggest if you had a 3D model or other images and you could, you know, even just fly around in it on the zoom meeting or you take screenshots of a model and it just becomes part of a presentation it doesn't have to be, you know, a scale drawing like this but so you know something that's illustrative and helps explain kind of the massing and form of the addition and anything that's changing up on the, on the roof. I think it's going to be helpful I don't know if the commission I'm trying to help her next time, given that it's already almost 915 and so I don't know if the commission members have other ideas but to me those are things that I think it help help move the conversation along. I echo the list you just made, but I think heady because I kept going back to that book drone and the, the asymmetry that it creates with the with the historical perspective of the front of the building. I, I, I hope that can be reconsidered. And I guess we look for an answer the next time but but heady I agree with you that that just takes away from the beauty of the the enmity street view. Any other comments before we adjourn for this particular session. I would continue to a date certain these plans have some call outs I don't know if we're on the packet so. You know if I was just trying to compare them on the PDF that I had and so I just want to make sure like say for instance on the front dormers on the original building there are some call outs on this on this presentation. So what's happening on like the roof and the sides of the dormer the materials and everything will remain the same. You know as to what's there so it'll match existing. Add a comment about the book chop the view from the street is something that we can come back to you to talk about next time but those Goshenstone site walls that are proposed. The majority of that view they come up almost to the height of the bottom of the window sill of existing window. So that is that will be part of that that view from the street. Maybe Rachel, we had this discussion. Also, these elevations are, of course, as you said, they they're sort of deceptive and because they're flat. And I think Robin alluded to that the other thing that Rachel's point if we were actually really drawing the elevations true with landscaping planting trees. All the things that Rachel described in front of this, I think would make a quite a substantial change in the overarching impression of the front. But to your point that we can certainly study this but I just want to point out that the nature of these elevations are very abstract and they're very flat. I agree. Yeah, I understand that the one other thing that was Mr. Lee discussed and it's seen here as the new elevator protrusion and so, you know, we can see it on an elevation but it'd be great to know how how visible is that just like the HVAC from an oblique angle on the right side of the elevator. So I don't know if there's a possibility, whether you're, you know, south of it, you know, east or west of it or even on North Prospect Street. You know, how, how does that look and so it's hard to get an understanding of that. And again, I don't know if it's, if there's ways to take screenshots of a, of a computer model and just have that ready next time just so, you know, to me that's that's a question so I'm just looking back. So I had suggested I had sent an email out to the commission. You know I was looking at sometime in October. So I you know, you know, we have we have to kind of, I guess we should probably talk about that right now what's a good day. I sent you, hold on, I'm just turning off. I sent you a email, I'm just uncertain of my Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday schedule. In October at this point, that's my only issue like all three of those days and I will have one conflict free day but I don't know which one it is right now. So, Nate, I apologize, I saw the email but I didn't have time to go to back to my calendar to respond. So I can take a look at it but there are those the only possible dates you're proposing or are there other dates or potentially propose. Well, we have to continue to a date certain so I mean a Thursday evening works well for me. I mean issues just I also have a lot of other meetings and like commitments in October so I mean, I know I'm just going to count right now is like you know does like does. I don't know, like the 9th or the 19th or the 16th, you know, Mondays or Thursdays are best for me just because I have meetings almost every Wednesday and every other Thursday. That month and so. Yeah, I don't know we have to figure out that before we do. Do you want to resend that email with your, your Monday Thursday dates as well? Or we can respond to that. Or do we have to set the date now? You have to set the date now. Okay. So, yeah, Thursdays would not be a conflict for me in October. Thursdays would work best I can't Monday. I don't have my calendar in front of me but I think Thursday the 19th would work for me. I think I already responded. Nate, and Robin and I, I'll meet whenever. Yeah, I don't have any time. I know time is very critical. Should we say the 19th thing. We can ask the library but that works for me. Okay. So FAA people. Tim. Does that date Rachel does that date work. It does. I would like to point out that it's quite possible that we will be presenting to the planning board on the 18th day prior. So I don't know if there's an advantage to have this meeting prior to that meeting. So is, is the ninth another date that you're proposing Nate. The ninth is a Monday, which could possibly be a conflict for me. And I just don't have any way to know. Okay. Yeah, no, I mean the planning board review, you know, it's a site plan review application. I don't, I don't really see that they need to be. Sequenced in any order. I'm imagining that the planning board will continue it for another evening. So it's also a, there's a lot happening. I mean, the 19th seems fine. We can say 630. And this would be. Probably the only thing on the agenda. So, you know, I emailed the commission. So I'm hoping we can have another meeting in October, but the 19th would be dedicated at this point to just this project again. And, and, and Robin, the meeting would begin at 630 with the expected. And at what time? I mean, we're going to about 930. So I'd say 930. I mean, it'd be fair. I'd like to, it would be great to. Move through the, you know, we did the site, but maybe some clarifications, the existing building, and then the addition. And then we can see where we can get with, you know, a decision of by the commission that evening and then comment. Great. Thank you. Okay. I guess we need a motion for that. Oh, motion to continue the meeting. Yes. To the 19th at 630. Okay. So I know that we continue this meeting. To the 19th at 630. I think I second it. Yep. Yep. So voting. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now we're voting on the motion. Oh, hear me. Heady. We just need to vote on your vote on the motion. I called on you first. I can. I vote in the. Okay. Hi. Hi. Hi. Michaela. Hi. Antonia. Affirmative. Pat. Affirmative. And I vote. I. So we are approved for the meeting. To continue the hearing. To the 19th. Six 30. With a end time. No later than nine 30, I guess. Or. Amy for no later than nine 30. That works. And so there's still 11 attendees. And I'll just say that you can always submit written comments to. Myself. And they'll get posted online and distributed to the commission. So. I think we'll be able to receive more also send those to the. To the library team as well. Okay. So do we need a motion to, to close the meeting? No, I mean, we've been hearing open where you just voted to continue it. So I, you know, I think we're all set. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you commission members. Really appreciate your attention and help. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Good night. Thanks everyone. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Especially you, Nate. Thanks. Have a good night.