 Good evening and welcome to episode 329 of the private property podcast. I'm your host Osamando Moa Kumalo. Monday edition of the private property podcast, I hope you've all had a good weekend. You're well rested, you're staying indoors, you're sanitizing, social distancing, staying hydrated as much as possible. I was a bit under the weather. I've been under the weather for the past couple of days, so I'm on meds and I'm on the main bit by bit, but hoping to get to 100% very soon. If you are joining us for the first time at home, you are tuned into the only daily property podcast in South Africa helping you along on your property journey. So do make sure that you catch up on all the great episodes that we already had and you can do so on YouTube or on our Facebook page. And to all our regular viewers on Instagram or on Twitter as well as on Facebook rather as well as on YouTube, you know how we do it every single weekday. You and I have an appointment at 7pm where we're always in conversation with the property expert who helps us navigate our property journey. And it doesn't matter where you are in your property journey, you could be looking to buy, to sell, to build, or you could still be renting right now and you're still trying to get a good sense of how to get your first home. We're certainly here to hold your hand and make sure you have all the info that you're going to need to make the right decision. And talking of making the right decision, we also have a great show that you can tune into every single weekday at 8pm right here across private properties, social media pages. As it is a Monday, you can catch Chad on the Home Shoppers show coming to your screens every Monday and Fridays. And Chad's job is really just the coolest job, right? Of all the shows that we have, his job is the coolest because he gets to give an amazing tour of incredible homes that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.zale. Some of the exquisite mentions that he ends up in are phenomenal. So I love his job. I would absolutely trade places with him any time just so I can get a slice of those exquisite homes. And every Tuesdays and Thursdays, you can catch a wandering farmer on the farm in podcast where she tackles all things agriculture. So if you've got any agricultural ambitions, that is the show that you want to tune into. And on Wednesdays, Estie Clarkson takes us through the first time home buyers show, which is always in conversation with people who have not only walked that first time home buying journey, but have gone on to grow their property portfolios from strength to strength. So of course, many of you at home saw that your first time home buyer shows celebrated 50 episodes and I know she'll certainly have 50 more as we've seen with this particular podcast that we just keep growing. And of course, that growth wouldn't have been possible had it not been for you at home. And we absolutely absolutely love to see it. And because we love seeing the growth and we love making the property so called bigger, we've course run amazing competitions that really wanted to make sure that more of your friends and family at home get a sense of what you tune into every single weekday, whether it's at seven or at eight. There's a pinned post from a Facebook page where we're running a great competition, where you can stand a chance of walking away with 500 rands in cash. And all you have to do is to comment on that particular post or even share that post. We've got a target to reach 10,000 comments and 10,000 shares. We're currently sitting at around 6,000 shares and sitting at 7.9,000 comments. So we're nearly there, we're nearly there, right? This evening the money bag is sitting at 3,000 rands. So if we call your name tonight, make sure that you text us before the end of the line because that 3,000 rands is going to come your way. Well, that's some of the great things that you can look forward to this evening. I do hope whoever wins tonight is watching so they can claim this 3,000 rands. I don't want it to roll over at all. I think it's it's a nice amount, right? It's a nice amount on a Monday. And you know, paid day was over the weekend or last week. And I know so many people are already feeling like, ooh, when is the 20th coming again? So this is just the right boost that you need in your pocket. And I'm already seeing some of the love on our Facebook page at Selene Pelé. Same good evening, Zama, with an amazing rose. I love flowers, by the way. I like Lily's. The team recently gifted me an orchid. I had to Google how to maintain an orchid I had forgotten. I once had it millions ago. But flowers are absolutely love. So thank you very much to Selene. We've also got Michelle Volmarans, Colleen Janssen, Vanessa Nell. I see you and Colleen Janssen saying, Zama, on point as always. Thank you very much, Colleen. Well, keep the love coming. Absolutely, absolutely love to see it. Also, of course, share this live so more of your friends and family can see what you are tuned into. Tonight's episode is one that I am particularly excited about because I've had so many people and I see in the comments section, you know, in the lives I even see it in my own social media platforms, people who say that they want to be property investors, they want to go into property investment. And when you ask people, okay, have you started? Why haven't you started? One of the biggest reasons people side is around finances. And so this evening's conversation is particularly for the property investors. You could have already started or you could be looking at starting. We're going to be looking at property finance options for property investors, right? You want to look at the different ways you can finance a deal. Some of the do's and don'ts, how to best manage your finances and how to package your offering. Perhaps you want to buy a small block of flats. And you know that this isn't a great location. You can get the numbers, but you don't have, let's say it's even going for 3M. You don't have the 3M. How do you go about, you know, creatively raising that money? That's what you can look forward to this evening. And joining us as we're closing, we're slowly closing up Women's Month. And, you know, we've got this evening at Miranda Mulordo, who's a property mentor. Miranda, good evening and thank you so much for joining us on the show. Hi, good evening again, Zama. It's okay to have you on the show, Miranda. You are our last Women's Day guest because tomorrow we've got a special show for our viewers at home. Throughout the month of August, we've only spoken to women on the private property podcast room. And we're very deliberate because we know that women are also experts in property and we're able to have all kinds of different conversations relating to real estate with women. So we've really closed them off the calendar in style, especially looking at, you know, property finance options. So I'm very excited about this conversation. And I think, you know, Miranda, before we even look at the nitty gritties, you know, the do's and don'ts, I think it started at the top. You know, when we look at property finance options as property, you know, investors or property entrepreneurs, what should be sort of the overarching theme that we, or the lens that we look at when we look at property finance? Because I think there are many little sub things we'll explore just now, but women who holistically have a look at property finance options and what is possible and what isn't. How should we be looking at it as people who are interested in investing in property? The first thing, Zama, I think we should remember when you set up a real estate business, because that's exactly how you should set it up. You are setting up a real estate business. Think about it. When you go to any bank and you want to sell your concept and you want someone to believe in it and to give you money for it, you need to be able to show that it's going to make some money, right? So your first thing is you will have learned how to deal, analyze. Is your deal making sense? Have you got a deal that's going to make money? Because how else are you going to pay back the loan? You can't come to me for finance if you haven't worked out the numbers. So that's my question. So on the overall also finance options are many. There's money out there. There's lots of money out there. We just don't know or haven't found ways of finding it. That's what I'm finding. And I must admit as well that I also found out that there are many ways of calling in this money and to making sure that you are being fined. So the first thing is an open mind. An open mind about where you're going to find the money. If your family can't and your bank account is not showing any shiny money in there, there's money out there. And if the bank doesn't give you money, there are eight other options by the way that I know of by the way. And we'll look at those options shortly Miranda. You mentioned something that I love. I'm fairly good at it. And I know that one of those things that you need to hone if you're going to go into real estate, especially if you want to whether be an entrepreneur or an investor is dealer analysis. I can look at a rent roll just based off the rent roll alone. Tell you that already your rent roll alone is just not sufficient or we're not going to be able to add that 30% markup that the estate agent is advertising is possible regardless of how much renovations you put in. So I've got a knack for deal analysis, you know, quite a bit. But for those of us who are probably still just starting out, what would you say are just some of the basic fundamentals when it comes to deal analysis? It's also one of those things that you're going to learn. And even I know that I want to say about that PhD level. So it's continuously learning, understanding different, you know, factors you use in even your deal analysis. But just at a primary level, what are some of the fundamentals? You know, if someone had just told you, because when we say deal analysis, we probably are excluding many people out of this whole equation. But think about it when our moms and grandmothers built the two room and garage. They said, I'm going to charge 300 drinks per room and the garage will be 500. And then I need to pay electricity and water. And some of it is going to be pocket money for Zama. And some of it is going to be pocket money for Miranda. Does the money come out guys? Are those pennies really adding up? Because if you don't do that, and you are looking at this tiny building, then you haven't done deal analysis. And your grandmother has beaten you hands down and deal analysis does it have to be done on a special calculator? No. On the Excel sheet you put in rent 300, rent room one, 300, room two, 300. What are any electricity is how much minus that minus that you get through the deal analysis. But if you're going to buy a big building, obviously, there are other things to consider. So you have got the home owners association. Maybe maybe you have got people who have who have meters for electricity. Then that's zero for electricity. Or maybe I don't even manage my own building. I'm going to ask somebody Zama to come and manage my building. So the agent is going to take 80 to 10% of my money. And sometimes I laugh all the time that some of my mentees on the mentorship, they will do a deal analysis and they forget. They really don't want to put all the figures. Are you going to pay insurance? What if the building goes up in flames and you still owe the institution? By the way, you have to insure your building. Maintenance of the yard, the gardener that's going to be cutting the grass and making sure that your building looks presentable so that people can rent at your building. So put those things. Vacancy rate. If you've got eight units that are for rent, they are not necessarily going to be rented out all the time. You need to make space for when there's vacant room number one in eight. And you still need to be making money and make sure that the bank gets paid. That's how we look at things. And those are just little basics. And then every month, let's say someone is buying student accommodation. Everybody knows now student accommodation is not my favorite. But as students, we used to eat up and I have no idea why we sit on top of the desk. Sometimes we find the microwave is on the passage. I have no idea why that happens. But you find that with student accommodation, you have to make a provision of 25 to 30 percent of your rental income towards maintenance because students necessarily, they are kids, right? They're 18 years old. They break stuff. They, I don't know, they don't pay attention. So if you don't put those figures and you lie to yourself, you haven't done little analysis and you will find yourself short when you have got a vacancy rate of and then you haven't put it in there. And if you don't maintain your building, your tenants will move to the next shiny looking building next door. I promise you, the next door neighbor will pay it in gray and yours is in red and it's dirty. They will move, right? So little things like that we account for them. We put a 5% maintenance rate, 5% vacancy rate, whatever it is that you are doing. So, and if you put in those numbers and please remember to ensure the assets that you are buying, it is an asset. It's your business, right? You ensure, just like singers will ensure their voices. You ensure the asset that you work at and that brings you money every month. And you know, Miranda, I love that you've, you've mentioned that especially right now in the market that we're finding ourselves in that your tenants will go to the next shiny thing, right? So if you are not putting in the work in particularly maintaining your property and I think the next level is also providing good service, good quality service because I think we're also at that stage we're going to the days where landlords would be these tyrants and not provide their tenants good quality service and communicate with them like their customers, which they are. We're now in a market where tenants are spoiled for choice, where they're even able to negotiate their rentals. And I quite like this market for tenants, right? That it's also really forcing landlords to up their game to recognize that it's a business that you're running. And if you're not even going to get certain business fundamentals when it comes to customer service, right, then you're not going to, you know, do particularly well because you're now not the only person in the arena. There are other people who are, who may not be, you know, who may not have been in the arena for as long as you have, but they're certainly going to beat you at it now because they know to bring, you know, good customer service and really good quality accommodation for their tenants. I want to find out from you at home the different financing options that you used as a property investor. So if you've bought an investment property before, what were the different financing options you use? The one that many of us know of course is a home loan facility and many of us use that and there's nothing wrong with it at all. It's there, it's a great tool and they even creative ways to access more and more money from even one home loan facility. But what are some of the other ones that you have used at home? I want to just take a quick break to see who the winner of the competition is and when we come back, Mariana Mulorda will share with us some of the creative financing options that we should consider as a property investor. And this evening's winner is Dorel Jaftar. Dorel Jaftar, I hope you're watching us because you are certainly, you stand a chance of walking away with that 3000 rands that is in this evening's money bag. So Dorel Jaftar, if you are in the live, drop us a text down here below to claim your money. We don't want to roll over tonight. We don't want to roll over. So Dorel Jaftar, do make sure that you drop us a text. Now this evening I am in conversation with Mariana Mulorda, who is a property mentor, looking at property finance options. And this is particularly for property investors. So if you know that you are either a property investor or an aspiring property investor, this is the episode for you. And I think, Miranda, I now want us to get to some of the juicy parts because when we're talking about deal analysis, I think the only thing I'll add with deal analysis is you did such a great job of really helping us think through the different kinds of options, especially when you whether you're looking at an apartment or a back room. So when we're starting off, because many people are not going to start off with a block of flats. It's just that the reality is not that many people start off there. We really do start up with an apartment. Sometimes you start with the family home where you want to rent out the back rooms. And it might even be a matter of you want to first build it because they may not be there. So you've got the yard, but you're now looking at building them. Then one of the big things when it comes to deal analysis and even just property holistically is understanding the best and highest use of the property that you have and the highest and best use of every square meter of the property that you have. Because when you also start to look at the income and the expenses per square meter, you start looking at it slightly differently. When you start looking at your home as, okay, what are some of the pockets, for example, where I'm able to make money per square meter in the property that you have. It switches things completely. So every time I even look at a property that I see on privateproperty.co.se that I'm interested in purchasing, I would first just look at how much is this per square meter. So I don't even look at it, it's $400,000 per square meter. How much does it cost? And then you work backwards. What would be the income, what would be the monthly expenses per square meter? And that's just my way of keeping abreast with, do I think that that's the best use of each round per square meter? Because sometimes when you look at it as $5,000, you're just like, ah, it's just $5,000, but the moment you break it down, you realize it's actually not just a $5,000 figure. Now, Miranda, you mentioned that you've got, I think you said eight finance options that you can take us through. I think let's get through some of the finance options for our because I'm sure many people wouldn't be able to name eight. They're probably just thinking, okay, maybe friends and family, maybe the bank, they'll probably stop at four, you know, most people, but that's why we have you to, I guess. So what would be the, I think, let's go through the first two property options, finance options for our viewers. You won't go to, yeah, you probably won't be able to do all of them. I am going to particularly touch on installment sale agreements because I've been asked, particularly this weekend, by an interpreter who actually is making money and who actually cannot get a mortgage at the bank with total frustration. It's like, well, you don't have a credit score. Yeah, we see this cash, you know, that you have, but you know, long-term, are you still going to make that type of money? And he has found a property that he is interested in. So in his installment sales agreement, you don't go and do a ladies agreement over Atlas of Red Wine Zama here. You actually approach an attorney and you create an agreement of how am I going to buy Zama's unit, or how am I going to buy Zama's house? In an installment sales agreement, the two parties will come together and the interpreter will say, on an average, every quarter I want to pay, let's say Zama is selling at 600,000. And the interpreter says, oh, cool. On an average, quarterly, I make 200,000. Can I entice Zama right now by giving you 100,000? The next two quarters, I'm going to give you 250, 250 until we get to payment, right, until we get to the total. That's an installment sales agreement. I'm just simplifying it. Some people make it different because, yeah, I know I'm going to burn us whenever. But firstly, there's an attorney involved because Zama cannot sell me the house and eat my 100,000, right? And then go and sell it to Abiola, for instance, for exactly 600,000 again. The attorney will draw up your agreement, agree on their dates to say, by the way, that deposit must be paid on the 20th of September. The next installment will be at the end of the next quarter, which is December the 31st, and this hour, and if you don't pay, these are the penalties. And if the buyer falls short, how are we going to do this? There must be a remedy for each party, right? There must be an exit clause for each party. What if the buyer changes their minds, right in the middle of the sale? They've paid you 300,000 by that time. What are the penalties? Or if Zama does something funny like break down the apartment before the person takes ownership. And in the installment sale, the attorney will detail all of that. Exit for buyer, exit for seller, and he will go and withdraw the deed title, Zama's deed title and keep it in his trust account so that Zama is not able to sell it to the second and the third. I'm sure you've heard our stories in the township where the same house has been sold to three people, four people, right? And then when is that transfer going to happen? That transfer is going to happen on the dot when the buyer has paid all of the 600,000, day one after that, the transfer attorneys and the transfer attorneys are going to start registration at the deeds office or what? That's an installment sale in simple terms. They vary in how it happens because between businesses, people sell to each other businesses and people don't think about that because everyone wants to go to the big four banks and they think that's the only means. And an installment sale can save you a whole lot of trouble as well when you find yourself having cash or expecting cash and you've had a very bad name or judgment or whatever. And sometimes some properties, the bank views them and thinks and yet there's value in that bank but banks put their own way of evaluating not because there's something wrong with the building but banks have got their own risk appetite. They've got their own risk appetite for certain areas, for certain kinds of properties. I mean, I've had instances where there's a particular property I was interested in. I think two of the banks weren't going to extend a quote and I think one or two did. And I think after going back, the reason was that the two banks, they were too invested in that particular complex. So they also want to de-risk, they don't want to have a certain percentage of properties in a complex. So sometimes you take all the criteria but a bank may not necessarily be comfortable with, let's say, financing 80% of apartments in a particular property. So looking at all those criteria is also just important because the cycle can change. So sometimes it could be they are looking at this area, they've already got too much in a particular area, they're not going to add for, let's say, two quarters. And somebody who then applies in the third quarter, they get financed properly because it may very well be that other people sold their properties, so their numbers have changed. So really getting a good sense that banks, it's not just a when are you good, it's an automatic yes or when are you bad, automatic no. I like what you're saying that because man, sometimes being refused a mortgage bond can hit so hard, it almost hits your self-esteem like what's wrong with me and people take it so personally. And I just say to people, I don't know guys, it's not personal, it's a business decision. The bank, it's got a great credit score, we like that. And then it's like, oh, okay, this complex, we're already at our threshold. So we can't extend in this particular complex. And I think this is why it helps when you actually go and find out why. I mean, I only knew because I actually asked, okay, why was I not being granted that particular home loan or even the quote in that instance. And I was told that look, first it was the complex, but also the area. Banks also take a view on certain areas and certain periods. And so when you slowly begin to understand that, okay, I can actually then find another property if, for example, you still want to have your four codes and play around. And the bank will probably extend that facility to you. So it's not personal. You really do need to just get a sense of why you get rejected, especially when you know your finances are great. And Miranda, what would be then the other creative property finance option that as property investors we should be aware of? I am spoiled for choice. So I'm trying to figure out which one I like this. So the other one that I really like is commercial properties are not necessarily finance the same way as just your usual house, right? We spoke, you and I, about a block of flats area. So someone will want a block of flats and it depends where you go. And there are institutions who particularly just like city center, high-risk places. There are institutions that say absolutely not, right? So if you go to tap, they are not scared of risk. They are not scared of risky areas. They do have a risk criteria that they use obviously and their finance is a little more expensive. And you find plus three, plan plus 2.5 and you will find out as you find out. So when someone is stuck with finance and they think, well, I can't buy this house in Soweto, but it is block of flats that I really like. And I know the area very well. I am from Soweto and I know how to navigate myself in this place. And I know how to find the tenants. I speak the language because, you know, every township has got its own beating, beat and its own lingo. So when you go to institutions and you go to our big foreign banks, they will say absolutely not multiple tenants. Wow, no, no thanks. But you will find that TAF, TUHF has got appetite for properties like that. And what do you need to prove? You just need to prove that there is, there is going to be cash flow. It is well run. You have, you have honored all the municipality regulations, right? No stealing of electricity or water, no illegal connections there. And how are you going to tenant and property manage, which is what we spoke about earlier. Again, it is not just about putting the tenant there. It is managing that you are doing rent collection. And you are doing maintenance so that the building runs and you are actually collecting that rent so that the mortgage gets paid. So for me, commercial institutions like that, that have got appetite for multiple, multiple family units like that, it is easy to reach out to things like that because they know that they are financing a business. Again, you need to be a business. You can't go there as Zama. You will go as Zama Propo. And then Zama Propo is what has been financed because they do not deal with the individuals. So you will have to register your business. And it's, it's, it's something that really you just need to be clear about that you are getting into real estate investing. And you are investing as a business. You can't invest as, as, as, as an individual. And many other reasons for it. I love you mentioning Puff. You know, we've spoken to them before. We'll definitely have them back on the show. I think the ability to invest in initiative projects, they definitely were a game changer because we're not seeing financiers financing initiative projects or initiative buildings. And I think a lot of the entrepreneurs that they've worked with, some of you will find used to stay in those respective buildings and, you know, saw the potential of that building when it is run well and managed well and maintained well. So we're definitely going to reach out to Tuff and have them back on the show, especially for those who are not very familiar with them. And even invite some of the tough entrepreneurs. I mean, we've had one before. We've spoken to her before. We've done a really great job. I know Miranda, you've also had her also on your show really did an incredible job. Operating and has worked with, you know, Tava. And in as much as they've got an initiative focus, they also constantly adding different, I'll say suburbs or areas rather than their list, because they have a list of, you know, places where they'll finance. And they're constantly looking at new ones, as long as you're able to make a case for your property, it's definitely something that you can explore. Miranda, let's squeeze in one more. I think I want us to squeeze in one more. Definitely going to have a part two, because I can see a lot of them. So we'll squeeze one more just so we leave them wanting, right? When we do our part two, we'll definitely explore the rest. I like the one that I'm going to squeeze in, guys. I really like it because my, you know, my mantra is that property investing is so classless. It does not discriminate. It really has got very low barrier to entry. So every single one of us at any age, at any stage of your financial journey can actually enter into property investing. So this is what I mean. So you and I grew up knowing that our aunts and mothers are in Stockfells, right? They would stockfell each other because they are going to buy a flex green TV or a washing machine. Even when I went to university, I don't know about you. I think I was crowdfunded to get to university the best installment, right? So in property stockfells, really, it is just a collective. Our families do it right now with funerals. They know how to bury each other. What you just need to do is to formalize it into a property company so that the property stockfell is able to purchase. But what is also critically important that we don't do well as brown people especially is to write terms down. When a viola, Zama and Miranda get into a property stockfell to say, right, we are going to put our 10,000 each. And then in month number 12, we are buying that piece of lead cash. It needs to be written some way that Zama would say 10,000 in Miranda did and a viola did, right? And we bought this and it is owned by this prop core of these three people, a property company that is owned by these three people. That means whatever rental that comes in is shed three ways. That means if one of us, lo and behold, dies, that 80% goes to my ears or my beneficiaries, whoever they are, which is something that we don't do very, very well as brown people. So if we get into a collective and we are able to buy each other smag and whatever, right? Like you say, pots. And whatever it is that we buy and we get into a collective and we go to Greece on holiday, we absolutely totally can buy a property possibly every year or every quarter we could be paying cash for it. Can you imagine that young lady who works in, who works and she has got money that she was probably going to waste? She does not have the reach to get into a bank and get a mortgage, but she is in collective with people who can apply for a mortgage. Then we are able to buy a piece of property with her money and my money and your money. And we are able to refinance that property by the next property, refinance the next property by the next property. That's how wealth is created. We are used to a collective as Africans. I'm not sure why we are missing the point on property, but I just find that property stockfills work very well. Our helpers have got stockfills for soap and toilet roll. They could easily do that and they could still develop their own tradition in their own tradition and so I feel like property stockfills are the future and I yeah. And you know I want to squeeze in a few of some of the comments that our viewers at home have shared. I know that we've gone over just a little bit, but that's always the case when I'm with Miranda. And some of the viewers who are watching us on, especially on our Facebook page, Umesi Neppi Pidi saying I need this money. Keep entering, Mesi, hoping that one day we call you a name because we're watching live, so you're definitely going to be able to claim the money in the money bag. We've got a Snetem Bamboongan who's also watching us Ru Romano saying aspiring property investor first time property buyer. And that's exactly how it starts, right? You know you buy that first property and then you start looking at even reflecting on some of the mistakes you may have made when you bought your first home and making sure that you don't make some of them once you start buying your investment properties. We've also got a Fulufel or Hope on Facebook as well as Unko Si Malibane saying money in the bag. Janine Fan Reifald saying property investors and Unko Si Anna Malibane also watching they are sharing a really great sticker saying let's do this. Numvulam with a name saying pay attention to the details. And that's what Miranda was sharing earlier, the importance of really paying attention to the small details, even the ones that you think, ah, it's just 300, it's an expense added on. It's not just 300, it eats into your bottom line. Geraldine Carlis saying yes, maintaining your property is very important. Fusi Eric Moloi saying who agrees with me when I say that green is the new black and sharing those green hearts. I love that. Green is the new black. Fusi, I love that. Absolutely, absolutely. Love that Chanel for you saying planning ahead is good, sometimes the plans don't work out. Emergencies happen so quick. And the last one that I'm going to share is coming from a Pulina Unko Si saying I hope, I also hope one day I'll be able to enter a property business. And I think one of the things, Miranda, because I know we've run out of time, so I'm going to wrap us up. Any final tips for our viewers at home? I mean, many are either looking to invest in property. I think let's have the final tip for those who are looking to invest, who've listened to this conversation, already their eyes got opened to the different things they ought to be thinking about when you want to go into the property business and want to be a property investor and that it isn't just that you're buying a property and it's passive, right? You and I both know the no such thing as passive income in real estate. You work for it. You can systemize things, but they certainly work involved. So for those at home who are exploring going into property or want to go into property investment, any tips for them, any final tip, actually not even tips, any final tip for them when it comes to, I'll say, getting ready for that next step. Because I get a sense from a lot of people who are particularly watching tonight's episode is they're also using this as a, you know, a knowledge stage where you really want to gather as much as you can before you obviously make that move. I'm listening to that first time buyer again that thing that we speak about if you're beginning to get into property investing and you're excited about buying your first time home. Can you please just register it into a property company? Just don't do what we did, right? Just don't do what I did, right? Just register a property company, go on to the CIPC site, CIPC.org and register a company and see it flow first and foremost so that if you are, if you're quality investing, that's the other thing. Because if you are buying your first time home, the one that you live in necessarily does not become an investment unless you're selling and buying a six-bedroom home where the other four bedrooms are going to be hiring them out to other people. You still want to collect that rent inside of your property company bank account, not into your personal account. If you can do that for us, please. And if you are doing that, it's called house hacking. It's a strategy that's called house hacking and it's great but please do it inside of a protocol. That's the first thing. The second thing about these finance options, you will find little piecemeal here and there and you may not find them necessarily in one place because how did I find them out? I found them out by default and as I went there, went there. But I think what consolidated for me was having a property mentor. I have been mentored three times in the property investment journey because necessarily it is not my everyday job. I have got my day job that I do. I am medical doctor during the day so property and investing are just not a language that is spoken in medicine. So please when you view mentorship, view it in that sense that you are investing in your business by doing self-development. What artists do they will see beyond say though will pay someone for choreography, doesn't she? Is she a dancer? No but someone teaches her how to dance so invest in your business. And I think that's a great way to leave it at and one of the things for viewers at home, part of investing in your business is also investing in yourself, understanding that you are a great asset because it's firstly your business, you're the primary asset first and I think many viewers at home already have an understanding of that. That's why they tune in every weekday. They engage with us on social media because they understand that that's an investment first and foremost and then of course they're different professionals that they're able to get and they're able to get tips on how to choose those professionals, the kinds of questions you should be asking those professionals because that's exactly what we cover here on the private property podcast. Miranda thank you so much for joining us on the show. It was a pleasure to have you on. Thank you for indulging us for a few extra minutes. It really was a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you. See you next time. And that is Miranda Moloto who is a property mentor. We shared her content details down here below and I think to everybody at home is an aspiring property investor or still just has a lot of questions, take your time. Property is one of those things. It's not going anywhere. You certainly are able to get a good sense of whether you've even got an appetite for property as an asset class or if maybe you want to do a different asset class if you want to go into property without you know buying actual bricks and mortar because there are really different ways to go about playing in the property space. Perhaps you might have some cash lying around it. Instead you finance somebody who wants to build those blocks of flats or wants to purchase those blocks of flats. I think the really big thing is make sure you work with professionals, make sure you have contracts in place. This isn't the type of thing where you want to you know have a you know shake each other's hands and think that's sufficient. It absolutely isn't. So get an attorney in and make sure that everything is formalized. Well that's a wrap from myself as I want to welcome Malo on the Carder Property podcast. Unfortunately we haven't had a drill after pick up their hand to claim that 3,000 rands in the money bag. So it's rolling over tomorrow. We're going to have 3,500 rands. We're also going to be wrapping up Women's Month in style. You're going to have to find out what I mean when I say we're going to be wrapping it up in style you do not want to miss tomorrow evening's show. Until then hoping you're staying home and staying safe.