 If that I'll call the meeting to order at the, I got 701 on my computer clock. Can I just ask who's taking notes. That's the first order of business. I'm sorry. So since Katie is not with us tonight. Do we have any volunteers to take notes. You want me to do it. Well, somebody has to do it. So. I mean, I can do it. I don't mind. Okay, great. I may have to duck out because I don't have a super child care tonight. So that's okay. I'll do it. Yes, this time. Thank you. Well, we'd better get through all the important stuff before you duck up. Do we have anybody from the public? I'll assume that snow. No. Approval of last. We have a motion to approve. Meetings minutes. Do we have any questions or concerns on last meeting's minutes? We have a motion to approve. I moved to approve the minutes from last meeting. Second. I'll second. All in favor. Proof. Meetings. Minutes are approved. Okay. You have the floor. Okay. I see the feasibility study comes later. So I'll just give you a, a kind of quick update. I am happy to say that it's relatively quiet on the first floor. Only a modicum of drilling going on. The eight foot by five foot hole that was in children's up until the last few days has been filled. So at this point, most of the work on the first floor has been complete. They're still, they've had to do some retiling of, um, public washrooms as there were cracks that ran right down the middle. Um, and some other kind of, yeah, there's cracks everywhere. Um, at this point. The work around the keyhole area, both inside and outside in the building. So that's where the work is going. That's the place where they had to put entire, you know, entirely. It was a full depth repair. So that was a, you know, new beams underneath and everything else. So that work continues. We are waiting to hear about what happens with the upstairs. So what that means is that there are one of four possibilities for the upstairs. We could have no need for any repair. Leave it all alone. Okay. So, um, I think that would be, um, repairs in some small repairs, small cracks in small areas, small enough that they just need some epoxy and they would take the carpet up, epoxy would need to be done, put it right back down. Third case scenario is a little more complex. Um, probably more likely there, that there would be some, uh, some parts of the carpet, some parts of the carpet would probably be severe enough that they would have to re-carpet at least some areas of the upstairs. So take the carpet off, you know, buff the cracks, grind down the concrete, do the epoxy, do the glass stitching like they did downstairs, and put some new carpet in those areas. And the fourth case scenario is that it's potentially bad enough so that we would have to remove all of the carpet upstairs and do the whole thing we did downstairs, repair everything, um, move all the bookshelves, move all the books, do the whole thing, and then put the new carpet back in. So we've been waiting and waiting for the structural engineer to finish his analysis of upstairs to see what that's going to be. And we're expecting it pretty much yesterday, pretty much any day now. Um, I was in Sunday working on some budget things or attempting to, and, um, you know, we had a lot of, uh, at that time there were archeries, our project manager and some folks from the construction team were in doing some vibration tests still. We had, when we had everything off downstairs, all the carpet and, and the furniture out the degree of vibration when someone would just walk across the floor in, especially in the back area of our building was something that was of concern. to make that more stable. So it does seem to us to be a lot more stable. Before literally we could have, if we had one of our staff members that maybe weighs a hundred pounds, it would walk across the floor and you could feel it jiggle. So still doing some testing, but carpet look is good. A lot of the areas look good. Probably the most exciting area is still the, I think it was just happened after our last meeting that the teen area, we now have an expanded children's and teens area. So I had jokingly commented all through the construction to the construction team that wouldn't it be great if you guys could just knock down a few walls for us as long as you're here in the teen area. Actually the old computer lab area downstairs because we hate that area for a computer lab for various reasons and it's dark, it was enclosed. We had some bad behavior there. And so what happened was the structural engineer found that the teen collection weighed too much for the space it was in and needed to be spread out. And so it wouldn't cause any more problems with the floor. So it was cheaper for them to knock the walls down in the old computer lab and make our teen area for us that it would have been to double reinforce the floor. So we have a newly expanded teen area, which we think is awesome. So that kind of business as usual, Curbside is still incredibly busy. We're getting a ton of questions about when we are going to be open. We are planning quite a bit of summer reading program. Most of it is still online and some of it is outside. We are preparing a tentative opening plan, not with dates on it because we don't know when that'll be for us but kind of going backwards from what we did when we were closed. So looking at, you know, if the COVID numbers are this, this is what we plan to do, et cetera and working on the budget. So that's kind of what we're doing to stay busy right now. A couple of questions, Nancy. If it's the worst case and you have to do to the second floor what you did to the first floor, does that push back your mid-summer opening? I don't know. It may or may not, depending on how bad the repairs would have to be or how complex, but I don't think that anyone, even if we have to do it, not we but the construction folks, even if construction has to do quite a bit of repair upstairs, I don't believe any of us believe it'll be the extent that it was downstairs as far as the severity of the cracks. And, you know, there were multiple cracks downstairs that needed epoxy and stitching and metal plates. And, you know, it was a five or six step process. And we're also looking, if that does happen, the worst case scenario, there are some moving companies that have kind of these hydraulic, kind of like a hydraulic jack thing, but it's long and they can actually lift up up to a 30 foot library shelf with the book still on it, move it back, you can carpet and repair and then plunk it back down without ever taking the books off the shelf. So multiple options, which obviously, you know, taking the books, taking all the books off of all of those shelves upstairs, you know, 84 inch shelving holds a lot of materials. And that's what's the most time consuming is taking everything off the shelves, trying to keep it in order and moving it back. So, well, hopefully not a big delay, but we're still waiting to hear the, there are multiple calculations going on by the structural engineers. And we have those four foundations I talked about before that are downstairs and apparently they're not exactly above each other upstairs either. So we still have four different kind of platforms upstairs. So different thicknesses of floor, a few funky things going on. So. And then can you, if it's bad upstairs, can you still operate the first floor or is it too dangerous? I don't know yet. So it's, I don't think it's a matter of being structurally unsound or being a dangerous situation. I think it's just more, it is really, really loud and really, really smelly and really, really nasty. So, as far as having patrons in the building then, you can't hear anything. I mean, you can't, we've spent a couple of months dealing with it, but we were choking on dust and, and you know, you can't hear anything. So just depends. But, you know, we're hoping it's not that long. We're kind of itching to be open as soon as possible. No. Can I ask a question too? Sure. Sorry, forgive me if I missed this in the previous minutes, but so is all the funding for this coming out of your budget? Or is it? No, not at all. Oh, good. No, this was a, this is a 2018 bond measure. Okay. So there was, I don't remember the exact number I don't know if Tim does. It's 2. something million dollars that was allocated toward library infrastructure repair. So as far as I know, last time I talked to the project managers, we were still under budget. I don't remember the number either Nancy, but there was a, there was sufficient contingency reserve. Yeah. For these kinds of, you know, possibilities. So. And so then if, if in the eventual plan that you're in the process of coming up with in terms of library expansion, this like investment into this space isn't going to tie you to that space in any way, like just It isn't, but you know, no, but on the other hand, you know, even if we were to decide to build a new library or be part of that, the STEM and STEAM complex or something like that, that's going to be years down the road. I mean, it's just, you know, I've been in new building projects. If we, you know, anywhere near anything at this point, if we decided on it today, it'd be five years minimum before you were, you know, even thinking about being inside of the building. So we're going to be in this building for a while. And I think, you know, that the intent was to make it structurally sound, but it actually looks really with the new carpet and I'll been freshly painted and, you know, some areas we move things around and kind of try to refurbish some things while we're, while we're at it. And I think it looks really nice. Great. Great. Any other questions for Nancy on this one? Okay. And do you have anything else on your general director's report, Nancy? It's mostly about feasibility studies. So, and that's a separate category. So. Okay. So I'll, I'll just push on. Thanks. Friends of the library report. Yes. The friends met March, they were supposed to meet March 24th, 2021, but they, it was canceled due to the shooting at the Boulder King Supers. I did receive a little bit of sales reports. So I'll update you on that. The bookshop sales for February were $46.63. Online sales for February were $545.75. The gift shop sales were at $64.51. And there were no sales to that Dream World Books company. Since it was canceled, there were, there was an outstanding funding request that we needed to address or that the board needed to address. And then also another one came in. So the, they passed an email around and took an email vote and both of them were passed. First was a request for $8,200 from Claire Studholm for the summer reading program. The other request was from Penny Burris for $2,240 to expand the library of things and renew the software that's needed to track, reserve and check out those materials. So both of those were approved. There was a meeting scheduled for April 28th, which occurred while I was out of town. So I have no report on that meeting. So that's it. Any questions for Kathy? Okay. Seeing no hands. Councilman Waters, do you have anything for us tonight? I know you're just dying to hear a full, complete report on everything the city council has been up to. But I'll wait to see if you have questions or anything you need from me. Because I think the real interesting topic on this agenda is the feasibility study and what comes next. The only thing I would say from Azure Liaison is that I was fortunate enough to be invited by library staff to attend a little event last week. That was the staff's expression of their appreciation for Nancy and her leadership during the pandemic, the remodeling in all that is associated with it. And it was a fun hour or so to spend in the library getting a chance just to peek in on the staff and their connection with their director and their appreciation for her leadership. So good on you, Nancy. It was, it's well-deserved. It was fun to be there and be part of the acknowledgement and celebration of your leadership. Thank you. It was a big surprise. They faked a meeting. Jason and Donald said, we have to meet with you right away about computer stuff. I thought, and they said, well, why don't we just go meet in the conference room? There's more room. And they're like, no, you have to go to your office. So they were, it was very nice. They made it, they made me a great video. So. Wonderful and well-deserved. Thank you. I have a question for you, councilman, but I'll hold off on that till we get through the feasibility study. That's okay. Mr. Chairman, I show up to these meetings hoping you'll have a question. Yeah. I'll take that positively. Nancy, you want to update us on the feasibility work? Sure. Mark participated and our library friends, president Prudence also participated in the interviews for our consultants. We had three firms interview. One was a firm that was an offshoot, library strategies, a firm from Minnesota. One was Annie Seeger of Seeger Consulting that I had worked, who I had worked with previously in Bellingham, Washington. And the other one was Wember Inc, who is an owner's rep firm who has worked with many libraries in this area. So interviewed all three of them, asked them a series of questions. And it was almost unanimous. We chose Annie Seeger of Seeger Consulting and we have the purchase order through purchasing, which is a lot faster than it happened last time. And the contract should be out to Annie. She is so excited about working on this project that she had contacted me already and said, do you think it'll take a long time for the contract? Do you think I could get an authority to proceed before we have the contract? So I know she's already gathering some information. So the series of questions was pretty telling, I think that we asked, and we really emphasized some different areas than we had for the first consultant. We ended up after the first study with about a hundred pages of various stuff info that was gathered by both library staff and the first consultant, but it really wasn't synthesized in any way. So the objective this time is to take the information that there was when we gathered it. I know Annie's gone through with the fine tooth com and she said she's found some holes that she thinks need to be filled by some more additional meetings and community serving. And at that point we're ready to do or she's ready to do with our input some financial modeling. So looking at those level of service standards we talked about before, as far as space and staffing and technology and those various topics, seeing where we compare to those level of service standards and then seeing where the pure libraries compare to those levels of service standards and then creating those scenarios that say, if we need X amount more space, this is what it would take financially and these are some of the mechanisms by which we could get there. The other question of course is governance. It's looking at different models of governments looking at remaining a municipal library, looking at what it takes to be a district library, looking at what it takes to be a hybrid. It's more similar to Puda River, for example, where they have a district library at this point but contract back with the city for HR facilities, maintenance, several other aspects of running a library. So looking at governance, looking at those financial models and then coming up with some presentations for a council that say, this is what needs to happen if you decide that you need to move forward into a different level of providing library service. And I think one thing that impressed us in her interview was when she said that everyone needs to realize that dead as quo is a conscious choice that people can make but it will eventually lead to degradation of service. So we're at the point after the first study where we know we're $750 to a million short of where we should be every year. And that's for now, not for the future even. And so looking at, if the library continues to be underfunded like libraries in most areas then at some point service will suffer. You can only do more with less until you do less with less. So I think that's where we are but very interested in jumping in. I don't think it'll take more than a few months for her to do this. I know she's really efficient because I've worked with her before. So I did speak with Wimber which is the local consultant that's out of Fort Collins the ones that are the owners reps and they followed up just to see what they might have done differently or better. Interviewing, I'm always happy to do that with an individual or a firm. So I think they're still interested in the project because we're close to home and keeping in touch with us in the future. But I don't know if you have anything else to add Mark but we should be, hopefully within the next few weeks we should be into the study. Now, the only thing I want to add is that based on the request for quotation that you put out which I thought was very thorough that the winning bidder probably answered those questions more directly than the other two. In my mind, really helped her position in terms of prevailing against the other bidders. And given a different set of circumstances and the requirement for different expertise it might have worked out differently but where we're at now I think she was the best choice. Were there any other follow-up questions from the committee or from the city? No, not really. We just got, you know, just over logistics and we were just going back and forth with purchasing on the contract and getting that all squared away. But I mean, I know that Karen also felt that Karen Mone also felt that her responses were extremely thorough. I mean, she laid everything out there, every step of what she's going to do and how she's going to do it. Did you have a feel at this point as to when the kickoff might be? I think it's going to be, well, I mean, it depends on when purchasing gets the contract out to Annie. I think it'll be pretty quickly. No. So, May, you think it's... I do. I think it'll be sometime this month. Okay, great. Any other questions for Nancy on this? No, well, good start, a lot of work, looking forward to seeing how it all works out. A couple items that we had as old business. One was the subcommittee report on the guidelines for the use of the Moser and Empson funds. Katie did turn in some thoughts which I think have all been sent out to the board. I would hope you got a copy as well, Councilman. But because she is not here tonight, I'd like to defer that for our next meeting in a couple of three weeks and then she can be part of the discussion and help us through our thoughts on that. If that's acceptable, can I get a show of hands? Okay, so we'll post part of that. Mark, I did notice that Katie had said as her first thing that we should make a list and we have, and I would like to bring that or send that out before the next meeting, before we discuss it because we have a list with quotes, numbers, do we have a list? So, and also I did find out from Jim Golden that as of the end of 2020, the Moser funds balance is $592,325.00 43 cents. Mark, I didn't, I don't think I saw Kathy's thoughts. So if you want to share, I might be happy to- I'll send it out to you, Jim. Katie's thoughts, sorry. Councilman, the intent of this is just to try and create some structure within the advisory board. When we're dealing with such large sums that we have some protocols and some pre-stated guidelines so that we're acting responsibly in a fiduciary manner. I think it's a good idea. So I'm going to push forward then. And this will also add some implications for the Moser and MSN funds, I guess. The Little Free Libraries, Kathy or Nancy, do you want to talk about or you may not even have anything new to report on that from the friends. They're still waiting for guidance from us in terms of where we would suggest putting these and then they'll act accordingly? Well, I think that that's probably a question that they have. I mean, I think they would do the entire thing if we want them to do that. And otherwise, we can certainly suggest locations but I guess I wasn't clear whether we were going to come up with locations or I was going to come up with locations and kind of hand them over and then they would fill them or if they had some ideas as well. Well, that's a good question. I don't think we ever as a board decided how we were going to do that. I mean, it was a delight that they wanted to step in and take some of the responsibility over for that because that's a great benefit to this board and being generally responsible for it, I'm comfortable with them taking the lead in terms of where they want to put them. But I would hope that our board or the library would have some influence somewhere in that process that if we wanted to recommend something else or wanted to provide some different thoughts on some of the selections that we would have been put into that process. Do you think- I think originally we had tabled it slightly because when we were talking about it earlier nothing was really reopened yet because we were talking about an indoor location and most of the facilities were not yet reopened. So I think it's a good time to start that conversation again with the friends. Okay, because this might be just a naive question on my part, but do they know all the choices that might benefit the people that need to service more in the community? Do they have a feel for that or are they looking for input? Because I think you are gonna talk to some people in the city, weren't you Nancy? We had mentioned some things, we had mentioned the saloon clinic, we had mentioned the hour center, et cetera. So I think I just need to communicate with the friends about this and see if they'd like me to make those contexts or if they'd rather do it themselves. Is there a youth advisory board that I'm remembering with the city? That might be a place where we could also get some ideas in terms of where teens are hanging out. We don't end up with a lot of teen materials for these little free libraries, but they might still have some good ideas on that though. I think having had them, our old little free libraries destroyed and repaired three times we were hoping for an indoor location, which is gonna be a better deal now that a lot of indoor spots are now open to people to take them out before. I can certainly approach this at the next friends meeting or else. Yeah, can you, I mean, I'm just grateful that they're willing to step in and take a lead role on this. And I think that's wonderful. I just hope that they wouldn't shut out the library nor the board, this board, from making suggestions as they proceed down the road. They haven't to this point yet had a lot of access to their materials to do anything with them. That should be happening shortly. The garage area has been construction central and the friends, things, the friends' staff, their stash of books was all moved out kind of into the open areas out of the rooms they were working on the garage, covered with, even though it's in boxes, covered with just a ton of dust. So I've been told by the project manager that they're gonna use their big blowers and blow all the dust off of the friends' boxes and clean them up. And at that point, I think the friends will be able to access their materials so they can actually do something with them. So they've not been allowed for the most part in that part of the garage, when you go down there, there's sparks flying and lots of construction things. So we tended to stay away from the garage outside of just putting things down there. So it's a good time to reopen the conversation now because they'll actually be able to get to their materials pretty quickly. Okay, well that sounds like it'd be a good time to talk about their views on the Little Free Library and how we all manage this together going forward. Any other questions on the Little Free Library or the Friends? Yeah, just one question, would it be possible also to maybe have contact people that they could get in touch with for say, Salud Clinic or the Hours Center so that they would have someone to contact and say, hey, we'd like to set this up? I have contacts with folks. Yeah, contacts, okay, perfect. That would be a good time to pass it on then. Okay, and those were just two things that we had brought up as possibilities. So definitely if they have other ideas, those would also be welcome. I had taken several boxes over to a housing authority site just because they had requested before, but then they didn't want any more. Well, this may actually be another outlet for the Friends in terms of reducing their inventory of books rather than just selling it to a discount wholesaler. And it can actually put it back into use for the community. So that would be positive as well. Okay, having said all that, I'm going to start the section on new business and the big issue here is the electronic participation policy. Do you want to brief us on what you were thinking, Nancy, or what the city's thinking? Actually, this is not something that I came up with. This is something that was set out to all boards and commissions from the city. It's just basically saying it's okay to do what we've been doing for months, which is meeting online rather than in person. So I sent it out so everybody could look through it. At some point, it will need to be signed. Basically, it's just a formality that they need to have on file. Signed as a board or signed individually? I think it's just signed as a board. I haven't. Any questions on the policy? I was just curious, we switched from WebEx to Zoom. Is that like city-wide or did we do that for some particular purpose? Yeah, in WebEx, there are different reasons, but WebEx is used for the most part for some of the larger meetings because you could host a lot more folks, a lot more people in a room and Zoom is a little bit easier to set up and easier to manipulate for smaller groups. So we use Teams, we use Zoom, we use WebEx, we use all of them in different instances. So the platform doesn't matter, whatever we're consenting to is okay. No, it's just that you can meet electronically. Got it. I was curious about the mention of taking votes by roll call. I'm trying to remember that. How do some of the other boards handle voting? I think it probably depends on the size too, but I mean, I've been to a few other meetings where it is a roll call vote where they will call everyone's name and ask for an individual vote. And most of them that are smaller meetings like this, we all go like this. Okay, okay. Well, I would propose that we keep them what we're doing unless we're in violation of something that we're misunderstanding with the policy and see how it rolls out, see if we get challenged. So is anything else on the electronic participation policy? Okay, that takes care of the prepared agenda. I did save that one question for the council for this part of the meeting. And mine is more like just the inquiring minds kind of want to know sort of thing, but I did take advantage of the opportunity you mentioned. I guess it was last meeting or last meeting when we were all together that you had mentioned that the council was going to talk about the cultural center and the cultural center proposal. And I look, I, you know, I wanted to dial in because I know you had expressed thoughts that it might be great to combine the library's feasibility once we're so far along with the cultural center. And maybe that does make sense. What surprised me, I think in all of that was that I think the cultural center numbers and there were different, different looks were $150 million up front. That might have been the full blown plan and $10 million a year of support. Does that sound like I'm in the ballpark? Yeah. And I was just curious how, how that will actually occur when the poor library can't get its meager budget each year. I mean, that's a level of substance and sustainability that I just haven't seen come out of the community. And I was curious as to your take on that. Yeah, well, so can I just ramble about a couple of aspects of it? I just did, so you can. First of all, I'm glad you had a chance to watch the presentation. Hopefully you took some notes on, in the spirit of an after action review of what happened, what did you learn and how do you get better going forward? There are some things to learn from that presentation that you'd wanna make certain that you took into whatever presentation gets made when we have a feasibility study ready to present. Here are my observations. In that presentation, there was no context provided whatsoever to help understand this is a proposal that actually makes assumptions about locations and surrounding environments. No reference to that. There was no reference to the, a year's worth of visioning work that occurred that set the stage for locating or for proposing or envisioning where this would be located. There was no reference at all to what was a extensive discussion about parking capacity and facilities between a performing arts facility, a university or post-secondary campus and the performing arts center. So we got into this discussion immediately about parking, which took us right off focus. That even the agenda that night was sequenced badly, poorly, non-strategically. There was, we had a transportation issue on the agenda. We should have addressed that first because we would have addressed a whole bunch of parking issues before we ever got to the feasibility study. So, I think it goes on from there. I think there were a number of things that, what would you do differently? A number of things. So pay attention to those things as you think about the library feasibility study. Context is going to matter, history, et cetera. Number one, number two, you're right, Mark. It's the study is a two-phase, or the proposal is a two-phase project if it gets approved. The first phase would be a $105 million project, capital costs, as you recall, there were five areas of decision-making that the consultants identified that had to be addressed in considering the whole proposal. One was, after you get to, after you get to deal with the capital issues, governance of the property, management of the property, the business plan that goes along with the property, the fundraising that would be required to fill in the gaps and then kind of the ongoing maintenance and relationship to other properties like the steward auditorium. So in my opinion, there should have been some, a little more detail or at least hints about the thinking about what, who would come around those issues? What did they rec, who would they recommend being involved with those decisions on what kind of a timeframe, right? So there was a whole bunch that was left unsaid that should have been added to this. And, you know, the meeting probably ran longer than it should have, I don't know. It was just, so there's a bunch left. In addition, there was really no specific ask of the council. This is what we would like you to do. So a motion was made to accept the proposal and investigate it. I don't even know what that means to investigate it. It's like, oh, are you kidding me? So going into this, there should, it should have been laid out in my opinion where here's the proposal. Here are over this kind of a timeframe, here are the six steps that we think the city ought to consider going through to give serious consideration to the hard and thoughtful work that's been done on this feasibility study. Now I will tell you this, Mark, just in terms of the scope and breadth of it, I don't think anybody assumed going in that the city's gonna bite, swallow that, that's an elephant, right? The city's not gonna eat the elephant by itself. The city's gonna take bites of it, but LaPie, the Longmont Performing Arts Initiative, it's gonna, they're gonna have to step up. They're gonna have to have a capital campaign to raise a big chunk of the capital on the front end of this. What I've said, I've said it repeatedly. I will say it again, if there's a point in time where I could just shut up as well, if it's not gonna make sense. But what I've said to the Performing Arts folks is, because we have the library feasibility study in the queue now, and maybe by the end, what I've said is, and maybe this works, or maybe it doesn't, I've said, I think by the end of June, we would have the second phase of the library study ready to present. Maybe that's too soon, but that's the, but until tonight, I didn't know where we stood in terms of the timing, the June is when I suggested. What I did say is, before they get any further, they need that LaPie needs to come together with Harold Dominguez, Tony Chacon, and others, Joni and others who are involved in planning, and get real clear on what does land acquisition gonna look like, who owns property in the area that was proposed, and what's the strategy just for acquiring the land, is explore the possibility of investors. It sits in an opportunity zone. Are there relationships within LaPie that would bring a developer in, potentially to make a huge investment, right, in that area? How much of a bite do they need the city to take in terms of the capital campaign? And the answer to that question sets up the potential connection with the library feasibility study, is what I've said is, first of all, they're not gonna be ready to be on a ballot. If the city's gonna assume debt to come up with a big pile of cash to invest in a performing arts facility, that's gonna require a vote of the public. It's impossible in my mind, that there's no way they're gonna get the five areas of decision-making that they have to get clear completed, and they'd have to have it done by the first week in August for the council to approve a ballot question in November of 2021, that is just not gonna happen. So I think they've accepted the likelihood that there's no way a ballot question or a question would get on a ballot till November of 2022. So then I've said, imagine this, you're on the ballot asking the public to create debt, to invest in a performing arts center, on the same November ballot where the friends of the library have a question on the ballot, asking to create a library district. The last thing you wanna do is be on the ballot at the same time as the friends of the library and not have a really coordinated approach to this, because if there's one asset in this community that gets the highest ratings year after year in terms of the most highly valued amenity and service in the city, it's the library. So if I was gonna place a bet on whose ballot question is gonna win favor with the community, I know where I'd place my bet. It would be, and by the way, with them, I've said there's a whole bunch of if-then scenarios here. If the library feasibility study produces a recommendation to you to either create a dedicated sales tax and keep the library inside the municipality, or, here's the other if-then, if there's a recommendation that it becomes a separate district, you're gonna have to deal with that, right? I'll be as supportive as you want me to be, but you're gonna have to make that judgment whether or not you wanna go to council with the proposal to create a library district, because here's what I've said. If that's the scenario, then the council's gonna have to make a decision to put a question on the ballot. If the city does that, then what the LAPI group ought to do is approach the city to say, if the public approves that ballot question, could we get on that same ballot and would the city council dedicate the money that goes right now to the library, dedicate that part of the general fund to servicing debt for the city share of the capital campaign for a performing arts facility? Now you have two questions on a ballot. One is, would the city approve the creation of a library district with whatever sales tax or property tax would be required to meet the budgetary requirements for both for construction and operations and et cetera? And separate ballot question, if ballot question one passes, would the public approve the dedication of that sales tax or the general fund currently going to the library to cover, to finance $60 million, just pick a number of debt as the city share of the capital campaign for the performing arts facility? You could have two questions, you could get two amenities for one tax increase and the probability of the library succeeding with that, I think way better than a performing arts facility or simply certainly better than two tax increases, right? So there's some if then scenarios, right? So it makes, it's complicated, probably more complicated than some people would want it to be, but I do think, and by the way, one more, I got a briefing this morning on Saturday, starting this Saturday, the museum will begin a public engagement process to present to the public where the status of our thinking about a strategic plan for the museum. You saw that the Stuart Family Foundation donated a million dollars to the library just recently. The Stuart Family Foundation, I'm told, has more money to donate to the, I said to the library, to the museum. They wanna know, if they're gonna put more money into the museum, what are we gonna do with it? What's the longer term vision and strategy from the museum? So the second part of that whole proposal, Mark, right, which was a smaller 500 seat venue, I know that discussion is gonna be part of the strategic planning for the museum. So the potential is that we could go to the public with kind of a three-part, pretty grand strategy if you recommended a library district, if the city council accepts it, if the public approves it, if the public would then were to approve the service of debt without a tax increase for the Performing Arts Facility. You could lay that out where the city gets the library, you know, say to the art library, a Performing Arts Center and an updated museum for one tax increase to support the highest, the most valued asset and resource in the community, the library. Does that make sense? Well, yeah, I appreciate your laying it out. I mean, I just, it just seems, well, one, it seems bold. It's very bold, it's very audacious for the community, but it's also more money than I've seen thrown around for civic investments. And... Well, the city's not gonna, I just don't know how I'm just gonna get on. There's no way that the city of Longmont's gonna come up with $105 million to build that facility. And that's just the first two thirds. Well, but I'll be surprised if, in fact, I'm gonna, I will strongly support the city coming up with some of it if we can put together the kind of plan that the community would approve, right? Not all of it. There's gonna have to be private sector investment in this for it to work. Different from the library. I don't think we need the private sector investment to do what we need to do for the library. Well, I don't know. There's been models put forward for the library that has a hybrid component between the library and some retail access or something like that, where... That's a different, you're talking about a mixed use property. Like retail on the first floor and then the library sits on the second and third floor or something. And I don't, it's hard for me to imagine to put you in a position or the friends of the library to have to wage a capital campaign to cover the cost of adding 35% or however many square feet it would be even to get to average in terms of capitating the square footage for the library. I think it would have to be a district before that. Before that question bubbles up. Okay, well, I was just curious. I mean, I found that that was, as I say, a very ambitious study and general acquiescence to the kind of numbers that were being thrown around. And having sat through some of the agony over the budgets and support for the library, I just found that refreshing and startling. Well, there's a long way to go, Mark, before we've settled on this. But like I said, I think it's like swallowing an elephant and how many bites of it is the city gonna take versus other private sector investment and what comes from a capital campaign. But I don't see anything on, if there's gonna be items on a ballot, I can't, it's hard for me to imagine anything on a ballot before November of 2022. I can see that. Just so you know too, we did include Kim, the library, the museum director rather, on our interview panel for the consultant and hope that she'll continue with our core group as we work with the consultant moving forward. I think there are a lot of synergies there to be found. Yeah, hopefully it'll all get worked out. That's all I had. Anything else that the board wants to talk about or council wants to talk about before we move to adjourn? Next meeting is set for May 24th, just down the road here. So we'll be back at it in three weeks. Having said that, I will move to adjourn at 7.52. Thank you all. See ya. Thanks. Thank you.