 Many thanks for keeping us company again a very good Monday evening to you tonight. We are talking about the jubilee ship that is seemingly leaking and the question you are asking if it's leaking, how far will it go? I'm in studio with Daniel Orogo. He will help us to understand his political analysis. He's here to help us to understand whether it's really leaking and what can it be done. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you. Good evening. Thank you. Now, for the past two weeks we have seen bad things happen to jubilee party and most of the people say it's because of the handshake. We'll be getting to understand whether the handshake has caused the jubilee ship to have a hole that's now leaking some waters and will it sink? Now, we begin with David Muradi issue was David Muradi forced to step aside as a result of battling the deputy president William Ruto. Well, thanks Hilary. I think Muradi's issue, first of all let me say it's quite difficult to comprehend whether he took a personal decision to resign out of his seat. But that is what I said that, you know, sometimes we really need to understand how the political parties operate. Then it's quite easy to judge somebody's movement or somebody's decision. But you realize that the vice chair has got a very big role to play in the party. He deputizes the chair, the chairperson of jubilee and to extend closer to the party leader, very close to the party leader. So, first of all, he cannot speak for himself. He speaks about the party. You also realize that their demeanor with the secretary general of the party has been the same. They've been reading from the same script in that even advising those who have ambitions for 2022 not to really put their cards so much in their hopes into vying. So, I think his statement, their stories, their theories about his resignation. But I think I understand that I believe what he wrote and give to the public through the media that he took a personal decision to resign from the party so that he would pursue an advisory from the Supreme Court at a personal level. He also intimated that he is speaking for himself, not speaking for the party organ, the party structure and all the views that he has is subject to his own view. So, I think from there that is how far I can understand his decision, the political party leadership. We know who is the head of the party but then why hasn't the president reprimanded him publicly and because this is the question people are asking, he is the leader. Why is he not calling his party or his house in order to maybe clarify things? Well, if you can remember, in between the last quarter of last year Jubilee had organized for a parliamentary group meeting PG and it failed twice to materialize. One, the Jubilee party majority leader and the whip said that the president's diary is conflicting twice with the day that the parliamentary group was called. I think, like I've said, Jubilee is a ruling coalition and what we predict is an example because it's the party that is bequeathed with fulfilling the manifesto. It's the party that Kenyans are hoping that would actually fulfill the promise of the big five agenda and subsequently roll out the handshake that we right now is like the big five agenda, the fifth agenda. So, I think there is a lot within the president's diary insofar as trying to indicate please and maintain a harmonized party but at the same time being able to tell Kenyans that I am the president of Republic of Kenya and as much as I'm a Jubilee party leader, I serve the interest of 40 million Kenyans and over. So, that intricate balance is quite difficult for the president. He is torn in between trying to maintain a harmonized party and fulfilling the needs of the party members and the party followers but also at the same time coming out to tell Kenyans that even as much as I am the leader of Jubilee but I'm not only the leader of central Kenya. I am also the leader in areas that are voted ODM and voted P. All other parties you see are money national congress. So, it's a very delicate balance that I understand the president is trying to balance so that it doesn't go out of hand. Now, would you say the public humiliation that has been shown to the DP, of course, they are going to Kisumu and the birthday party of Baba, would you say it has scales to a new height? Well, I always try to appear objective in these matters but there is a turnaround of so many events within a short time in the political landscape or rather there is a technotic movement within the political landscape. First of all, the handshake, the 9th march handshake and the subsequent gazetment of the unity advisory task force or what people call the brilliant bridges initiative upset the whole political arrangement within Jubilee because it brought in the idea of accommodating the opposition leader and the former prime minister to the consultation within running of the government activities. And the question about succession politics. In that, I think you saw the statement that the senator Rengo was making in Kisumu that you see, you know, 2023 is within the hands of God but you know, the president know. So, I think that kind of political proxies and all this kind of proclamation is not sitting well with the URP wing simply because the president his pronouncements, you know, and long time these guys, the brothers, we call people brothers, my brother, you know, they would sit most of the time together, put it on the same time. You know, when announcing the cabinet. But probably suddenly things have changed. So anybody else would be worried, even the URP side and deputy president would be worried what is taking place. And also the fact that the president is not really forthright in saying who his successor will be. But Hillary, what I am really in all the midst of all these happenings. I am not seeing where the youth are sitting. And it's so worrying that there is a lot of political shifting and political movement. But the young people and strong youth leaders are remaining to be relegated as spectators. And this is not really very well when it comes to political governance, when it comes to inclusion. And the reason as to why I only fault BBI because of one reason. Amongst the members, I think there are 14 members that are sitting within that team. You realize that even the sitting senators, the likes of Emu Zvaku. There is no youth there. There is no youth representation and yet you realize that during electoral violence, young people are either victims or perpetrators of violence. They are in the forefront of being used as the foot soldiers for the politicians. And also when they are targeted, they are targeting the young people. So I think that is the only reason I fault the BBI for deliberately missing to include young people. And that means leaving out the voice of youth in national reconciliation and national cohesion. Now, do you think Mr. Murade was right or it's just a sheer ignorance of the constitution saying that the DP is not qualified to vie for presidency come 2022? Well, I think on that Mr. Murade misled the country. Because I think he was quoting article 243 or something. That article or whatever article it is, limits the deputy president from running more than two terms as a deputy president. So that if the deputy president runs for two terms and decide now to go for presidency, he is allowed to run. But he was quoting what unites the presidency. And the presidency means the activities of the office of the president and the deputy president. So I think whether you seek advisory or whether not and you realize that article 165, you do not need to go to the supreme court. Even the high court can interpret that matter. So I think it's a political skimming. Right. And that's why I said we really need to be very objective. And what would it take for the president to just announce that my preferred candidate is still the deputy president? I have not changed. Now, following president Uru Kenyatta's statement in Mombasa what he said about the Mouta Kenya region leaders who accused him of neglecting the region. Now, do you think the Mouta Kenya region has been neglected in terms of development? Again, again, that's what I'm saying. It's a very, very dangerous political pronouncement. You see, first of all, on onikitibu sharing our resources, we have a blessing of the devol system of government, which takes away 15% of the national budget, goes to the counties. Now, it's 15% and above that goes to the counties. So it means, first of all, that the presentation of a group called Mount Kenyakokas or something was outright wrong because according to the division of revenue allocation, you realize that central Kenya receives equal funding as some counties in western Kenya. So that means the county government of Kiambu, the county government of Murana, county government of Nyandarwa, the county government of all those counties that are within central Kenya and even some regions of Meru receive equitable sharing of resources. So I think that was wrong. It was a political miscalculation. But the fear, you know, Mount Kenya in the house of Mumbi is in a panic. And the panic is that you remember 24 years rule of Moai when they were not in government. And here, you are now telling Mount Kenya that they would again wait for 10 or 15 years without the point person. So I think instead of Mount Kenyakokas coming out clearly and saying our fear is the fact that we do not have a presidential country. I did it in 2022. They are beginning to go around the corner and begin to issue matters of economy. But again, I would like to, and I wish you had somebody from Mount Kenya, of course in this panel, you asked that the likes of Moses Kuria who said, you know, we feel that Mount Kenya has been neglected when it comes to national sharing of resources. A statement he extracted and said he was misquoted. By who? The public, of course. Something that you go out and say in the media is well documented, it's within the public domain. Now, you realize that the deputy president has been making inroads in Central Kenya. Very true. And what does he do? Launching of projects. Ya, but I was reading a certain article and some of these projects have derailed. Others have stopped and if I could mention a few examples, we have 43 kms Marua Kima, Kiamariga Road, 4.6 billion shillings, which is a 47 kms uplands, Gidunguri Roiro among many others in Kenya. There is a project in Nyeri, there is a project. But then they are complaining. That is why I'm telling you. It's just about the political setup because this is a region that, if you look at the track record of development, I've hosted, this is the third president coming from the region. You understand? By our political landscape, wherever the president comes from, it's by nature equated to be development oriented. But then we've had three from Central Kenya. So I think relatively to other areas, it's quite much developed. So that is why I'm telling you that the Mount Kenya Kokas would come, why would they just come out clearly instead of their fear so that they would begin to attract partnership by candidates who really want to buy? You understand? Now speaking of the fear, was there an MOU between President Uhuru and his deputy William Ruto? Well, in the resignation of David Murade, he said very well, and he even challenged and dared anybody that if there was indeed a memorandum of understanding, he dared somebody to bring it in public. So I would like to tell you that there is no MOU and Edan Dualle threw one of the days. It was a friendship promise. It was a friendship promise and I think some of these things are within the public domain. The tie, the glue that holds the rift in Central Kenya, first of all was about the issues to clear the international issues. That is ICC, which I think was a very hot issue by that time. And the fact that those need to bring reconciliation and cohesion between our brothers from Kikuis and our brothers from Kalenjin, the rift. So I think it was a good issue and that is why I am challenging the handlers of deputy president. If they are genuine that the country, and I quote what the deputy president said, he said that never again would anybody shed blood because of election. And I think it's high time that he just say that for the purposes of me being realistic and appealing to Kenyans, I would support the handshake because it's bringing cohesion. It's bringing unity within the country. So it is my view that those who are advising the deputy president would actually advise him. And if somebody is listening, the deputy president needs to do a very wise thing, include yourself. And he said in Kisumu that okiona uhuru, this side nababa, this side jua hasla ako katikate. And you see that is a very nice statement. I wish that he would take it and run away with it because if he doesn't take it and run away with it, wetangula will take it and run away with it or mudabari will take it and run away with it, then it will become difficult for him to convince Kenyans that I stood for handshake because it was meant for cohesion. So I think it would just be very smart and take it away. Alright, as we finish we are out of time. Now do you think that jubiliship is leaking? It's actually sinking because the leaking started long time ago and the failure to hold two parliamentary group meetings actually proved. PGS and NEC meetings are very serious party activities because then it becomes a point where both parliamentarians and the leaders empty out, vent out what their concern is. But up to now it has not happened and there are so many declarations. You know, the likes of Muradi making statements, Rafa El Truju still joining on the same statements, Maena Kamanda still joining on the same statement. So I think the ship is actually sinking and if it doesn't get rescued then I think it's dead and it's dead by right now as we speak. But then what mistake happened was dissolving the parties and I think nobody should have gone towards that direction. Do you have a solution? The solution is just right now I think the president would just hold the house in order and reprimand the members of parliament that you know this political bickering must end. We have a big for agenda to do and please support the president in uniting the country through the building bridges initiative or the handshake. Then if it reaches around 2019 or 2020 everybody is free because that then the political grounds would have begun to take place then election actually campaigns and all. But right now I think let him reprimand the leaders for him to have an easy time in fulfilling his manifesto. Do you think it's about time he told us we support income 2022? No, I don't think for him this would turn everything upside down. But then I cannot conclude the issue by again retaliating that the president had got a deal with the youth in this country, a very big deal. What was the deal? Building of studions, revamping some of these technical universities, acknowledging the industry in this country and improving youth lives through youth employment. So I think others are saying that he is still young. The way he appears he ran a campaign through youth phase. So I think one of the things young people needs to do is we need to give the president sleepless nights in terms of asking him to fulfill the agenda of young people. Not for any other thing but to make sure that he fulfill the manifesto that is youth friendly. Alright, many thanks for coming here out of Taiman. I see this discussion might not end here. We have a lot to talk about. Coming up next is why Mashawiki, stay tuned for that. He has been my guest Daniel Orogo. My name is Dereva Hilewi. Have yourself a very good night.