 Getting the most out of every ingredient. That's the mark of a maker. The KitchenAid Blender Collection. Of this year's food season, and what food season it's been, it's been incredible. I'm Melissa Thompson, and I am guest co-director of this year's food season, alongside Polly Russell and Angela Clutton. And before I, sorry, Karen, thanks to our sponsors, KitchenAid, who have made the season possible. I would say we're saving the best till last, but then other people might get a bit funny. Yeah, you can't say that. We don't need to say it, but... And as the finale, I'm really excited about this. I think we've got two people who make the world of food a better place, and people with extraordinary talent, but a lot of heart as well. I'm gonna introduce Itamar, and then Itamar's gonna introduce Angela. Itamar is one-half of honey and co, with his wife, Syreet, who is here. And also an author and a restaurateur in the middle of doing that original honey and co after, you moved out of the original site. So it's actually quite good that you're here, because I imagine I've always to be quite bored, right? There isn't that much to do. Yeah, it'll just be like... But you're renovating a restaurant. And Say Itamar generally looks after the words, and Syreet does the recipes, and together it's a beautiful relationship. Itamar's writing is stunning, and it has a column in the FT Weekend Magazine as well, and it stuns me how creative and imaginative the writing is week on week. It's really impressive. So thank you both. You just continue like this for the next hour now. I'm very happy. No, that's me done now, actually. So everyone, just keep back and enjoy. Thank you to Itamar. Thank you, Angela. Thank you. I'm really looking forward to this, so enjoy. Thank you. We're not too far. And thank you, guys, for coming. So Mel said that I'm going to introduce Angela, but I'm not going to do that. I don't think that Angela needs an introduction. Definitely not for me. We all know who Angela is. This is why we're here. We just want to know a little bit more about Angela, and just chat with them. Chat on a conversation. Yeah. So I'm very famously, very selfish conversationalist, so I'm just going to talk about the things that are interesting to me. You have your time in the last half hour. We're going to have a roving mic, and you will have your question. But we can keep it a little bit loose. So if you pick up on a thread and you want to pipe in, you can just shout. Yeah. We can relax. It's the last one of the season, guys. We can, we can, we can. Hi, Angela. Hi, good one. Welcome. Thank you so much. Big, big round. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Angela, Angela. Very impressed you're all here, given how sunny it is outside. I thought you'd all bale for a glass of rose. They're hiding for the sun. They're hiding for the sun. You are the sun, Angela. Oh. So good to be here to chat to you. How are you, how was your, how was your play? How was the pandemic? How was your last two years? Oh, gosh, gosh, yeah. Fun, no, fun. Was it fun? No, fun. It's right. It sort of feels like it's happened and, it feels like it happened a while ago. Do you feel like that for you? Like, even though there's sort of simmering bits still occurring, it does feel a long time ago. I feel like it's finished and we've now moved on. But it's not finished by a long shot. There's so many repercussions from it. But pandemic, I was busy, actually. We did lots of work. As I think most, a lot of people in hospitality did, because we were all shut our restaurants with fridges full of food. And we all went to all the various charities in London to, first of all, not waste anything. Then I remember we made all this, because there was stuff you could actually give away and they would use it in food banks or they would use it in, there's a great called City Harvest. Fantastic charity in London and they cook every night and they take it to a lot of homeless charities and shelters. And but there was stuff that, you know, in a way it's like, you know, you've had potatoes peeled in the fridge, you needed to use them. And so I literally did a WhatsApp to like friends and family. And my cousin came back and he said, there's a lot of Irish pensioners in South, Southwark in South London. They'd love it if you could bring some because I said, look, we've got some stews we've cooked and everything. So all the guys used all these leftover vegetables. But of course, kids and chefs being what they are, they spiced everything up, like really spiced up. So we take all this stew to the people. There's a lovely guy, Kevin, is there, or Keith, actually. And he comes back and he takes it, he's really happy and we bring them more the next week. And then he goes, Angela, no, excuse my Irish accent, Angela, this is so kind of you, very, very kind. But I just got to see something. The oldies, they don't like the space. Now, can you not with the space? Now, if you could get some of that sort of bread, the liquid gold, they love the sort of bread. So being me, being me, I went, oh yeah, Richard Corrigan. And he goes, it's like he had nothing to do, literally, because all the restaurants closed. I said, you can't just make a lot of soda bread for all these lovely Irish pensioners. And so he did for literally, so the whole of the pandemic, once a week, we'd take very mild lamb stew or fish pie or beef and then we'd do a nice bit of soda bread as well. So we did lots of things like that. And then my friend Lulu, who's just started cooking, literally, for her mates who worked in the hospitals. And I saw that she was doing this and I said, oh, what are you doing? I'll give you a hand. And it ended up evolving into us being in this massive outside kitchen space through a friend of mine, Greg, who runs Smart Hospitality. And other restaurants like Hawksmore got involved, Robin Gill, Wehaka. And every day we were cooking about 1,000 meals a day. And they were going off to all the ICU units in lots of various hospitals in London. And it was great, and it wasn't like every day I was doing that, we worked in groups because no one knew what COVID was. So we didn't cross over, so Monday you had a delivery group and a chef group Tuesday and you all swapped around. So it was good because it focused you, I think. And I'll be honest, and you didn't work any night. We worked lots of nights and it was lovely to go home and sit in the garden. So we did some good things and we relaxed a bit. So, and then waited for things to happen. It was bizarre, really. I always think the pandemic was so good if it wasn't for the pandemic. Yes, yes. If it wasn't for COVID, it would have been great. I was there when we were talking about it the other day, like birdsong. And I said, oh, yes, oh, for the pandemic. Obviously, I don't want a pandemic, but I did like the idea. You had no planes, no cars. London, you could zip through in a matter of minutes. It was silent. I mean, there were some lovely moments to it, but obviously it was a pandemic. And it doesn't like belittle it or lighten it, because obviously there's a lot of people who have suffered quite badly, you know? And then that sort of, you got an OBE for it. I mean, you're all very humble about it. And it's like, oh, yeah, we just rocked up and we cooked and then some sort of bread. But it was a huge operation. Yeah, it was. And then I got involved with Robin, sort of later in the year. Robin Hudson, for those of you who don't know, runs the pig hotels, which are these lovely sort of home-grown hotels where they have what they call restaurants with rooms and they do all these kitchen garden. And it's great. And he was really put all the pressure on the government to try and get this minister of hospitality. I mean, loads of people signed up and I think we got nearly 700,000 signatures. So he got petitioned in the House of Commons, the House of Lords. Unfortunately, the government in there, I don't know, brilliantly ignored it. Because, you know, our whole point was that, you know, we as a business without a bleeding on about it, a massive employee in the country. And it's not us as restaurateurs or chefs or anything. You know, it's feeding people in hospitals, it's care homes, it's schools, it's the people that build your restaurant furniture, it's the farmers, and you know, with the EU as it is and Brexit, you know, it's like, this was an opportunity to actually get, because as Robin was in that weird position of having a minister that he would write letters to every day about what they were doing wrong in the pandemic because he had a hotel. And then because it was a restaurant, it was another portfolio. So he had two ministers over his, and it just didn't make sense. And that's what we were trying to say should just be one stop. But we didn't get it. But we haven't given up yet. We'll see. I mean, we haven't given up. We won't stop until you're in number 10. So did the whole thing. This is what these people are here for. This is what I'm here for. We're doing it. It's happening. The movement. When's the next election? We should, we'll talk after. We'll talk after. So now it's all, you know, everything up and running as the restaurants are good and working, not getting something. And you're kind of like continuing your trajectory, which was quite amazing actually. I was, you know, reading a little bit your CV and how you ended up in restaurants. Tell these guys a little bit about it, because it's a little bit roundabout. Yeah, it's very roundabout I suppose. I mean, I was fortunate. And this is the, although half my friends always think I make this bit up. My father, born in Ireland, came over from Ireland, grew up in Essex. My mother, born in Wales of Italian parents, grew up in Wales, ended up moving up to Essex. And they met, so there was our union, a very Catholic, very Irish Italian background. But because, who this book is dedicated to, we'll come on to that later, a lady called Patricia Llewellyn, who did a great British menu. When the first ever season came on, she was desperate for someone to represent Wales and she was Welsh Pat. And she goes, go on, go on. I said, Pat, you do hear what I sound like. I do not sound Welsh. And my mother was born there of Italian parents. You know, it's very tenuous, my connection. She says, no, no, don't worry about it, don't worry. It'll be fine, it'll be fine. It's all TV, it's all TV. Is this why I always thought you were Welsh? Exactly, this is it. I mean, it's all Pat's fault. And I said, you know, so many people still go, oh, you're Welsh. I said, well, and it's no insult to the Welsh in case anyone's here as Welsh. It's just, you know, I was born in Canterbury, you know, and of, you know, a lady who was born in, my mum was born in Wales and my dad was Irish. So anyway, it's very odd. But unfortunately, my father died when we were quite young. So my mother was left with three kids in Kent. And then we moved up to Essex to a place called Upmint, still where my mum still lives. Her family were already in Essex because her brother, her father and his two brothers, who were all Italian, all owned fish and chip shops, one in Becantree, one in Barking and one in Dagenham. So that's how I, I suppose that was my first thing into the food business. I, on a Friday night, would go and do the chips at the fish and chip shop in Becantree. And then I'd get the train home. And I started, and I worked quite hard. My brother was always very smart and still is. But I, as my mother always said, Michael has got the brains and she's very good with her hands. So I was like, thanks. Thanks, mum, thanks for that. That's a delight to you. Yeah, delight to you. Well, actually, it was illustrated last year. We were both at the FT Festival in Kenwood House. And my brother texts me, he lives in New York. And he goes, oh, you're at Kenwood House next week. I said, yeah, he goes, oh, yeah, I'm over there. I said, oh, great. I said, and I said, go on, what are you doing? And he was there talking literally after John Major in some macroeconomic forum with four other speakers. And I was there doing a demo of pasta around the corner. So I was on a set, you know. You know what? Who's event do you want to be at? Let's just say it. Let's you want to talk about, you know, I don't know what that is. And you want to see Angela making pasta. I know where I am. So you're vindicated, I think. We're vindicated, but we always laugh about that bit. And so back to where. And so, you know, I grew up in, and all the family on my mother's side, they all own restaurants, they own, or not restaurants, they own cafes and fish and chip shops or ice cream places and stuff like that. And it always seemed like a good way to, I thought, oh, this is our family business or a business to make money. But went to the local convent school, Sacred Heart of Marigold School, anyone who knows Essex well. And we went, and everyone at that age, you know, because your parents always want you to do better. They were all going off to college or university. My brother went off to university, my sister went off to you. And I sort of said, you know, I'll do that for a bit. Even though my mum said go to France or go to Cordon Bleur School if you want to learn to go. I said, no, no, I'll go and do a history degree. I'll do that instead. So I went off to Cambridge poly to do that. And then again after that, sort of fell into working in pubs and bars, cooking. And because I was quite good at it, I sort of progressed, not quickly, but you know, I worked hard. I sort of got my head down, I enjoyed it. And I ended up working in a place called Mid-Summer House, which is now run by a chef called Daniel Clifford. And at the time was run by a guy called Han Schweitzer. And this will tell your age. How many people remember the Good Food Show with Jilly Cooper? There you go, and Chris Kelly. So Chris Kelly, he used to be one of the owners as well, you see. So this was probably before you were even in this country. This food program called The Good Food Show. Anyway, and so he was one of the, and I worked there and then Han said, well, look, you know, I've got a friend who works out and who's got a hotel in Barbados, go and work out there for a bit. So it was all sort of very quick and, you know, but it seemed to just fall into place. But I think if you like food, and I suppose my fortunate thing was I came from a family that did, you know, they were war children, my parents. You know, they both were born in the war years. My grandfather was interned in the Isle of Wight because he was an Italian. And, you know, we know Italy was swapping left, right and centre during the Second World War. So he got sent off and my grandmother had three children plus her nephews, all an efficient chip shop in Wales, you know, barely speaking the language. So, you know, they came out of that those years really having such a respect for food and no wastage. And, and, yeah, and a work ethic and a friend of mine, she's here today, Laura. She'll know that I was always staying a lot of my grandmothers. I was always the eldest granddaughter. So I always used to go and have to do a shopping. And if things weren't right, she would literally send me back to the vet shop. You know, it was humiliating when you're 10 or 12. But it's such a lesson. It's such a lesson. And it made me broke because I was too embarrassed to go back. So I'd go and buy other stuff out of pocket money, you know. Are you serious? Yeah, because you had to go back. Oh, my grandmother thinks your veg is rubbish, couldn't you? But it did show me how to buy properly, you know. And I'll always remember my mum. We went up to an Italian deli because all the Italian delis at the time were up in Clark and Wales, you know, the big Italian community. And she went out, my mum, if you meet her, she knows she doesn't look Italian. And she went in and she said, can I have a fresh bit of Parmesan please? And what she meant was a fresh cut piece from the big wheel. And he sort of was a bit patronised. He said, oh, madam, madam, you know, it can't be fresh. It's two years old. And my mother, she goes, and then she turned in Italian. And she said, well, that's all. That's all sort of through Annie. You know, well, you're quick. And he went, oh, my God, you know. But she was absolutely right. She was basically, I don't want a fresh cut and I don't want to be paying for the rind. And that was a point, you know. And so I sort of think it does, you know, it does. Because, you know, I think you all agree exactly as me, it's all that we're only as good as the produce we buy. Yeah, yeah, good cooking is a good subject. You know, don't mess around with it. Yeah, and then your job's easy then, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that was a long chat, wasn't it? No, but I'm saying, you kind of like gloss over it. But actually, sure, Midsummer House and then later with the Gordon Ramsay. Yeah, sorry, I didn't even get it. It's not, you know, it's not like a job. And especially those kitchens are hard kitchens. Not everyone can do them. The long, long days, the grueling services. So when you say, you know, hard worker, it really does mean very hard worker. Yeah, I'd definitely do the option again. I went down three dress sizes. I was like that by the end of it. I was like, the result of that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but then, you know, there's the downsides as well. Yeah, of course there is, yeah. No, listen, I went into that, you know, coming up from Cambridge, where Midsummer House was, we would finish at 10 o'clock at night. She'd cycle home. It was all very easy. Had a couple of hours off in the afternoon. It was very nice. And you know, I sort of, I went with... Well, you say a couple of hours off in the afternoon after working, you know, five or six days full days. No, but that's the thing, yeah. But in Midsummer House, it was quite, you know, we'd start about nine o'clock. We'd finish about three in the afternoon. We'd go home till about five. Because Cambridge is small, you wouldn't go home. And you'd come back for six o'clock service, finish around 10, and you'd have a couple of days off and a split shift. So it was quite easy. It was a nice way to get into it. That's your idea of an easy job. True, but then when I went to work with Gordon, I was like, went in quite blinkered and didn't even think to ask about the hours. And I started at eight o'clock the first day and then Marcus that night said, you know, we start at seven. I went, oh, right, okay, excellent. You know, and then I was just like in this trance. But, you know, we did work incredibly hard. And looking back, there's times I think, what am I doing this for? But I wanted to stick it out for me for a year and I was quite stubborn and I did do it. And then after a year, I said, that is it. I can't do it anymore, Gordon. I can't physically do these hours. It's draining me. But, you know, not you'd earn your stripes, but you know, I knew that Gordon liked me and I knew that then I was gonna follow him in what he did and go to restaurants. So he ended up working for me lots of restaurants for the next, you know, long, long time for 17 years. And I, you know, there's a lot of negative things you can say about Gordon, but for me, I do come out, I think it was a positive experience. I, you know, I love Gordon's death and I don't think I'll be here today without him. You know, he invested in someone who had very little experience and he took a punt on it and he's always looked after, you know, and even now to this day, he'll sort of, you know, everything all right, need anything, you know, you know, he's a good, I know there's people he's fallen out with, but you know, for me, he employed me and I've always, you know, had a phenomenal loyalty to him. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, he used to call me Dizzy Lizzy when I used to do everything wrong. And there was many a day I did that, trust me. There was a brilliant one when I, we have what we call walking fridges and they're tiny. I mean, they're probably like literally this, like this, you know, and in London space is pre-premium. So you, of course, the smaller they are. And I went in one day and these souffle molds are on this tray, just literally jutting out. And I bent down to get something, knock them all out. And you just heard this crash and then you heard Gordon effing and blind again. What's Dizzy done now? What the fuck? Popped my little hat. I go on, oh, just one or two molds, fine, fine. You know, and then I literally go into the page, she's, David and the whole fucking drag. You know, we're running up to the kitchen shop up the road, you know. Literally, he's like, you've broken every single one. Oh my God, yeah. So there were all these little things but you had this sort of camaraderie if you just, as long as you didn't tell Gordon, we'd get away with it, you know. But you came out from those kitchens, you know, it was kind of like early 2000s, something like that. Yeah, 2000s went and did the Connell, yeah. And then late 2000s did Morano. Morano, and then it's kind of like, it's a big shadow, Gordon Ramsay, but you sort of managed to carve out your own sort of public identity and, you know, of course your business. Was that, you know, was it intentional that you say, okay, now I'm gonna focus on me, put me forward or were you just like doing your thing and it happened? I think it got to a stage where Gordon's, you know, where there was a generation of us, myself, Marcus Ware and Jason Atherton, Mark Kasky, we'd all work together, we'd all come up through the ranks, we'd all were running hotels or restaurants for good. And it suddenly felt natural that actually, it's time for you to do your own thing. And I think you sort of wake up and think, well, actually, you know what, I'm gonna make the money for myself and not someone else. And I had a lot of people who were more that would say, you know, if you ever go out on your own, you know, give us a call. And, you know, and I was fortunate, I had two or three people who did that enough for me to buy Gordon out of Murano. And it was never, you know, an issue that he wouldn't sell to me, even though people thought he might not because it hadn't happened with Marcus and et cetera, et cetera. But like I said, you know, we always got on very well. And I, you know, he just said to me, why didn't you say that from the beginning? You know, why wait two years? You know, two years of us working together on Murano. So it felt, and also I felt confident having open Murano still under, I suppose the Gordon Ramsey banner and with the security that if anything went wrong, because when you own your own business, that's transformational. Because then as you, I don't need to tell you, you're the one who's paying the bills, paying the VAT, paying the gas. And more importantly, you're paying however many staff you have. And that sort of wake up at night thinking, Christ, you have to fill that restaurant lunch and dinner because, you know, everyone thinks the margins in restaurants are sky high. It's not, you know, and one, You've heard it here first. Yeah, yeah. One bad week or one bad month can just throw you. So, you know. One bad two years. Yeah, exactly. One bad pandemic. Yeah. And it's making sure every single thing is, you know, and, you know, and that's continual. You know, you can never sit in there, go, yeah, tick, that's works, because then you have a day where your outside seating is raining. And then you, you know, anyway, lots of reasons things don't work. So it was a good training ground. And then I felt, actually, I can do this. And I've got a great business partner, Chris, who I've worked with for years. And we're very good. We manage well together. You know, he's very finance driven. He knows how to make the money in a sense I can be more visionary and we work well together. And, you know, and the point is like, any relationship you back down when you know your argument's not, you know, he'll sometimes win me, you know, beat me. And I'll go, no, I don't agree. And vice versa. He'll say, well, actually, I think this, but if that's what you want to do, let's do it. You know, so you need. And I think the key to making it work is surround yourself with people that do their job better than you do it. You know, I'm never going to be the first. I mean, Garth, who is the finance director, is brilliant because he knows when we have these meetings, I zone out and I'm probably sitting there on the BBC website checking the Arsenal score or something. And he'll literally be talking to me and then he'll do what my brother does and I'll go, Angela, did you understand? And, you know, I mean, I'm 54 and I should really know all this. And I go, essentially, Garth, do I lose the house? He goes, no. I said, then we're cool. As long as I don't lose the house. And, but, you know, and I'm being flippant about it and obviously I know more, but ultimately that's where it comes to, you know, you put things against loans and you know what you have to do. So, you know, he really will put it in black and white to me. So I absolutely know. And that's what I need. And I'm not patronised at all by that because I know it's not my interest on my forte. So I need someone to literally put it in my face to say, this is what you need to understand. Yeah, and it gives you the freedom to do what you do. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Well, yeah. So I think for a lot of us here, we, you know, we do have this kind of image or perception of you as this. You're very red. You're very red. Oh, you're good, man. That age. Yeah. We kind of like, you are a household name. You are sort of, you know, flying the flag, maybe for this industry. I don't know if you like it or not, but for women in this industry, for leadership in this industry and, you know, all of that, you're famous for Italian food. Nonna Clorinda, we didn't talk about it, but she's a household name. And then this one. Nonna Clorinda. Nonna Clorinda, would she? Yeah, she's very private, my grandma. But anyway, that's fine. Sorry, Nonna. Yeah, well, you know. Yeah. This is payback for sending you back to the grocery. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, making me miss grain chill and everything, that stuff. But this book just came out and kind of, I wouldn't say a different Angela, but something new about you that I've never seen before. And I quite love this. So tell us a little bit about this book, how it came out and... Very fortunate to, I spoke to them about my brother. Very fortunate to live in East London. I own a house with my brother. He lives in New York, so I get the benefit of that. And we've lived there now 20 years, I think, coming on for 20 years. And it's a great area. It's a great community. Sandra, who's at the Golden Heart, is the heart of the community. She's our local landlady. And because, you know, it's a great house and we're very fortunate we have a little garden. It's not massive, you know, but it's big enough that we can put a table out there and people can eat and we can have a nice party or whatever. And I like cooking at home, even though people say it's a busman's holiday, it doesn't bother me because I find it much more relaxing than actually cooking at work because there's no paying customers. It's in your time. You can have the rage on the music. You cook what you want to cook, you know, so... I love you write in the book that you prefer having people over because then you can just go upstairs. Oh, yeah, then that's it. You're lepping all the way across town. You're just like, OK, dishwasher on, going down. That is another reason, you know. I love the fact that you can just go upstairs well. And my husband passes out far more times than I do. But you literally can go upstairs and it's done, you know. So that's great. And, you know, and we've come friends with neighbours or, you know, or neighbours have become friends. And Pat, who was, I suppose, the inspiration in lots of ways. She... I spoke about her before Patricia Llewellyn and Pat Llewellyn. She was, did, ran Optum and TV and they did the Two Fat Ladies. She discovered, she's the voice in the first Naked Chef. Discovered Jamie Oliver, you know, did the F-word with Gordon, Kitchen Nightmares. You know, she, Great British Menu, you know, really sort of made food, you know, put food on TV. And she moved around the corner from me about, well, probably now 10 years ago. And because Pat and I always got on really well and other neighbours, I'd say, oh, come over for supper. And we were very casual about it. And we still are, you know, people come over. Not everything matches, glasses don't match. There might be the odd chip on the plate. You might be waiting a bit longer for stuff. But you always do have a good time. And we always make sure you do. So, and Pat says, you should write this down. You should sort of make a book about that it's easy to entertain. Oh, easy, but easier than most people think it is. And that's how it came about. And so every recipe in that book is something that we have done at home. Some recipes have been based about parties we've had, whether it's a burns night party, which we do every year. I mean, this year, everyone worries about messing things up. You know, I said to Neil, I'll make the trifle. I mean, he still hasn't forgiven me for making him make it at three in the afternoon. And then he let the custard down. I don't know why he did this with creme fraiche. It all went sloppy and didn't set. And then I said, we're not serving it. I mean, Faye was upstairs. Faye, Faye National Equity was upstairs. And I just said, you're all having cheese and biscuits and just throw it over cheese and biscuit. And you were saying to me, well, there's no trifle. No trifle, no, no, no. And you know, we screw things up as much as anyone, you know. You're not scared of cheats? No, I'm not. I mean, I will say there is a recipe here for haggis that starts with the list of ingredients as a pluck of... Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's James Ferguson. Which is probably, I think, kind of like... Two months, yeah. The most challenging one. Every book should have one of these recipes. I think so, yeah. But also, cheats, gazpacho, gus. Yes, yeah, yeah. So, again, we have lots of family over. And my brother and my sister, my mum were over with some various friends one night. And I think even my uncle and aunt, you know, we are close. We do eat at home a lot. And in my normal, run, chaotic life, I left it to the last minute to organize dinner. So I ran to a local supermarket, I think it was Waitrose, and bought all the various guspachos. So whether it was Comet Garden, Fancy, Waitrose, Brand, and threw them all together, added olive oil, tomatoes, and basil, stuck in a bowl in the fridge. Pimped it up, yeah. Pimped it up, pimped it up. Served it, everyone's like, oh, delicious. And I went, oh, thank you. I said, yes, yes, you just got to marinate. Secret is marinating in 20 minutes. It's not, you know, came out with all this spreele. And then a friend of mine, Liz, who comes around a lot, went down. So because as I said, we eat on sort of the ground floor, but the kitchen is the basement. And everyone always helps clear. So then she opens the dishwasher and she just stands there, says, what's worse now? You've blatantly lied, lied to your family, your mother, your brother and sister, immediate family and friends, all the, you're so sad, you keep plastic containers and wash them in your dishwasher. And she was like, and every time Liz comes around, she goes, just, just check in. Just, just check in. Tesco finest in the bin. Tesco, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you're keeping this? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, you have to keep the plastic container. Of course you do. You've got to, we can't recycle, you see. The rindle, right? If you went off, yeah, exactly. You've got to see all those sort of things, yeah. But this is kind of like the spirit in the heart of this book. It's full of these little, beautiful little nuggets and you know, I just couldn't get enough of it. But I think that the spirit of the book starts even in the first page. This is the author's page. And then it's with lots of help from Neil, friends and neighbors. It's a joint effort. Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. And it's, there's something very beautiful about it and very real as well, because this is how much it is, isn't it? No, I think so. I mean, we've got great neighbors next door. The, you know, Kate makes the most amazing jam. I mean, she really does. And so, yeah, she's got a real knack. And you know, and I literally am waiting now for her, the eight o'clock jam to come through. And she's really great. And you know, and then, and I think lockdown, I think everyone probably had a bit of that, hopefully, is that you had things like we would make stuff. You see, everyone was, you know, not bored, but was making stuff at home. And I would text going, I've got a bit of extra lemon meringue pie. And Kate would, yes, and I'd go, okay. But you didn't meet anyone, just put it outside the door and then bring the bell and then you'll go inside your house, you know, because no one was seeing anyone. So we did a lot of that, of sort of cooking things for neighbors and helping them. And then they would cook like Nick's curry in there. And Nick is a mate of mine, makes brilliant curry. And Kate would come round his wife in lockdown and bring the curry. And I said, oh, and then I texted you. And I said, do you mind if I put that in the book? You know, so he's very excited the other day, he goes, where's my recipe coming out, and I said, it'll be out next week, Nick. This is one of the most beautiful things about this book. There's the, you know, the chapters, starter soups, meat, fish, pasteurized vegetable. And then there's a chapter of neighbors. It's just like the random dishes that sort of ended up, and I find it so, something so beautiful about it. Yeah, it's very warm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the beautiful photography as well, that's all. Oh yeah, Jonathan, brilliant, yeah, no. It does, the sense of community and neighborliness really comes through. And I think, you know, for, I was kind of like jealous, because I don't have that. I don't have, you know, a local apartment exact. I do, actually. I'm sure you do. I mean, I'm not a good neighbor myself. This is what I learned. Right, okay, right. Israelis don't make good neighbors. Do you steal their newspaper? Sorry? Do you steal their newspaper? I'm very envious. I'm envious of my neighbor's garden. Okay. So I'm always like, I always have a chip on my shoulder. Okay, all right. So you just grunt at them in the morning? I kind of like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's on me, I take it. But this is something that is so beautiful and is so to be celebrated in our life again as, you know, the chapter about the sweet part, the street party. Yeah. Which I'm guessing you're going to do another one. We are. I was placing my bagel order this afternoon as we speak. Oh, classy, very nice. Yeah, nice little bagel, yeah. Well, yeah, so yeah, street party this next week. I think most people will be having some sort of celebration. One would hope. Wasn't there like a Jubilee like five minutes ago? I don't get that. 12th, no, 2012. She is 96, you know, she's quite a few birthdays and you know, I think, yeah, she's pushing on. Yeah. Um, your husband, Neil. Yes. He's a chef as well. Yeah. I'm interested to hear how does that work out and how does that been a very amazing chef? Yeah, he's brilliant. I think Neil's a far better chef than me. He's got a really natural talent about it. He's great, but he's messy and he's learned that from Phil Howard. Phil Howard is messy? Oh, God. Do you know who Phil Howard is? You have a mental image of him? Yeah. I think he just, I can't imagine him even walking. He's just like wafts in space. I mean, who, I mean, it's Neil that, well, Neil, when Neil and I worked together at the Conal, he was definitely tidier. Then he went off to France. There's no way in France he would have been untied. Then he went to the square and I said, what the hell has happened to you? And he said, he goes, oh, it's Phil. Phil can be a bit like that. Like Phil will start something and then wander off and leave it. And then someone's clearing that appetite. I said, oh, no, no, they start. So, but the thing is Neil will do that at home. And it's, you know, when you've got a big kitchen, you can get away with it slightly. But it's still very annoying, but at home it's really annoying. So we tend to try and it's in Neil will cook and I'll sort of clean around. And then I will cook. We don't tend to cook together because we have trifle gate if we do. But I get really like just, you know, he will take his time. You know, he really, you know, I will be like, come on, people are coming. Get a move on for, you know, and just be swearing. And he will like, don't rush, but don't. And when he does this thing, big, big, don't shout at me. And I hate it when he calls me babe because he doesn't want me up. And so we end up having an argument. So it's far better that I let him cook. And then I stay out the way and then I come and clean and we cook separately. What about you two? Do you do, I suppose you probably do. You work together. I mean, we don't work in the same kitchen. Oh, right. Never, no. When we stopped doing that. Oh yeah, so you know, feel the pain, yeah, yeah. But I'm like here, I think Sarita's an amazing, amazing cook. She is. Yeah, and it's like every time me, like I would always sort of coax her to the kitchen. She's very clean, like surgical clean. And then it's like the food that she comes up with, it's unbelievable. I'm like, I don't care, I don't mind. I don't give a fuck. I'm going to be as fat as I want to be, I'm so happy. Because if you had someone cooking like this at home, you'd be as fat as me and you'd embrace it. But I just want to talk about Neil's food, that garlic toast. Yeah. That's going to be on everyone's table. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is a Hopkinson inspired recipe, which I think we say Simon Hopkinson who's written many cookbooks with one of the best one, roast chicken. It's brilliant and it's, you know, and I think it's either similar to the one he's done or Neil's have done, but Neil does it at the French house where he has a whole piece of sourdough, puts his lovely goats curd on it and then he confies whole bulbs of garlic. And then, you know, the idea is it sits on there and you just squeeze it all over that toast. And my poor nephew, Finn, we were eating there one night and Neil did this and Finn wasn't quite sure what to do with the garlic. You know, he was only the 16 year old kid and stuff. And it sort of, Neil came down, he hadn't right eaten it. He goes, you know, and I had eaten all the bread and stuff and Neil was like, right, doing another one. Finn, I'm going to show you how to eat garlic. Poor me, I said it before. And after, he loved it, of course, but you know, but I remember when we've put sometimes, you know, we've done, well, Neil's done it at the French house, whole artichokes and a friend of mine who's probably one of the most traveled people ever, he goes, Angela, I've never had that. You know, some of the simplest things and was flawed by how to eat it, you know. So I think sometimes, you know, the skill is also making sure everyone doesn't feel patronized or they've got to feel, you know, relaxed about eating food. So, but Neil's great cook, he's great, messy, but great. Yeah, well, you know, there's a price to pay. Price to pay, is that what you're telling me? Does he sort of coax you into the kitchen? I'll always make the pasta dishes. Like I made, we had some, I did, even though I said, I think you probably have these moments when you've had a long week and it was last Saturday and we had some, and I'd keep everything in the freezer and I knew I had these old trimming bits of red mullet in the freezer, enough to do a pasta for two and I just did this like garlic, garlic chili in a pan, tomatoes, fresh tomatoes, cook them down soft and then literally a bit of white wine, put the mullet on top of it and let it cook and I did it with spaghetti and it was delicious, I have to say. And even I was, I said, I ate it and I said, Bloody hell, that's good, isn't it Neil? I said, and he kept saying to me, if you put lobster in it, I said, well, why'd you keep saying this? I haven't put lobster, he goes, it's very good. I said, you know what, those bloody chefs, sod it, I'm gonna just open a little pasta restaurant, I'm gonna cook and I won't have to employ anyone. Yes, that's what I did, because I'd had one of those weeks where everyone was driving me nuts, so I said, that's it, done. Yeah, the hut on the beach fantasy. Yeah, exactly, we've all had that. You're dreaming of it now, aren't you? I'm dreaming of this pasta. I'm dreaming of your hut on the beach. That's the problem, you're gonna open a hut on the beach in five minutes, it's gonna be man-housed like your life. Because we'll all come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it's one bowl of pasta every five minutes, at least I'll only be able to do so much. I mean, if this is your retirement plan, I'm for it, I'm definitely for it. I wanna circle back a little bit to that dinner that's mentioned in this book with Phil Howard at Bruce Pool, which I'd be cacking myself. I'm not Angela Hartnett, for sure, but you don't get phased. Well, I did say to Neil, I said, we've got to, I said there, because we had Bruce, who's there, Phil, both really great chefs. Robin was there, he runs the pigs as well, and I think Chris was there, yeah. So there was quite a big audience, and I said there, well, you're nice. Can't even imagine Phil Howard eating. Oh no, he loves food, Phil. Really, I thought he lives off like solar energy and caffeine. No, he really, but Phil's thing has got to be delicious, all about delicious food. So we were smart, we did a good menu, so we started with a pasta dish, and I have this little analini in broth that I've told you about before, so a little pasta dish in broth, and then we did this turbot, you know, and where we are blessed as chefs and restaurant tours and stuff, is we have a supply chain that we can pull on. So we were able to call the fish suppliers and get it exactly as we wanted. So Neil presented this big tip, because I said to him, I said, we can't screw up now, Neil. I said, you know, I said, it can't be our normal carnage that, you know, it doesn't, you know, with the neighbors and family can get away. I said, you know, I said, I'm not saying we have to be all ridiculously over the top. I said, but at least let's make sure we do this right and we don't overcook the fish or anything. And then Neil made, and that's in that recipe as well, he made this great dessert called a gatto basque, which again is, I mean, I sort of agree there's just 60 recipes in the world. They just have reinventions. And it's a recipe that he learned from a chef called William Curley, who's an amazing pastry chef, who worked for Pierre Coffman and it's a very much a sort of Southern French traditional in a pastry case with a sort of vanilla cream and prunes. I mean, you know, and baked all together. So things like that, I think are just good dishes. I mean, you do have to serve the prunes for a month. You do have to, yeah, in rum. Yeah. That's, but the rest of it is quite straight forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's, I'm sure I'm not the only one drooling, just thinking about this Neil. Another thing that I loved, another little anecdote that I love is about the aubergine dish. Here's my notes. Discuss. Discuss the aubergine dish. Pat and Ben's aubergine dish. So as I said, Pat in the book, Pat inspired the book and Pat was moving to the neighborhood with Ben and they had a mutual friend. Basil is in the book as well. He's got a recipe. And I said to Pat, even though she knew a few people, I said, why don't we have a party for you? Welcome you to the neighborhood. We'll invite loads of people. You and Ben, come and blah, blah, blah. And she goes, oh, fantastic darling, lovely, lovely. And we said, I said, do about two in the afternoon on a Sunday. And she goes, well, I'll sort out all the booze. And I said, right, we'll sort out the food. No problem. I was coming back from Limewood Hotel, which is where I've got a consultancy in the New Forest. And I was driving back from London. And I probably, yeah, and I thought, oh, okay, I'll get to London, I'll buy stuff as I get into London and we'll all be sweet. And Pat turns up at the house at 12 and Salvatore, who's a lodger that will never leave, he's living with us and he's Italian. You're living? Yeah, and Pat came in thinking that she'd see plates and dishes already and I wasn't anywhere to be seen. Neil wasn't anywhere to be seen. And she said, darling, it's a really, you know, Pat and Neil, it's happens to be calm, they'll be fine, don't worry, they know what they're doing. Anyway, when she came back at three o'clock, we had, but you know, I came in and I pushed, you know, I ran around and I made sure everything was ready and Neil, little barbecue and did this one aubergine dish, which I think was a Yotam inspired dish, you know, where it grilled with yogurt and mint. And it was delicious. And like I said, he has these little finishing touches. I mean, while he'd done about six salads, I've roasted me, I've done chickens, I've done, I made a strawberry, I'd laid the table, you know. So everyone's there, we're all having a great time and everyone's coming up and going, thank you, delicious. Love those aubergines. And then someone else, I really love it, are those aubergines? And I was like, and then Ben's husband came up and he, and then of course, you know, by then the joke was going through that he goes, Angela, I love those courgettes. And I said, I'll fuck off, Ben. I was like, I know you are the bloody aubergines, better than any else. And he's going, no, but what do you think? I said, I don't know. I don't know what you did. And even now, I was like, Neil, we've got to put this in the book, too. He goes, well, I don't really remember. I said, well, try and remember. You know, work it. Yeah, work it. You need those aubergines. Anyway. Yeah, it's really annoying. It's always the one thing. Yeah, the one thing, yeah, exactly. That they harm onto us. Honestly, I said I've done nothing else, of course, yeah. At least it was not the gazpacho. That would have been... I should have done my gazpacho trick, and then that would have been it, beating the aubergines. That would have been really sort of rubbing it in. Yeah. I mean, we can go on and on and on and just sort of pick all of the anecdotes and dishes from this book. But you're gonna, I mean, you are gonna buy it anyway, but for the rest of it, there's just kind of like a taste because this book is like room full of these beautiful, delicious things and beautiful, delicious stories. But I just wanna, before I pass it on to you guys, I'm gonna put Angela on the spot. Ha. Ha, ha, ha, ha. I'm gonna read a little bit from the... It's a great love. Yeah, I was, I was stewing on it. I was fermenting on it. Um, I'm gonna read from the intro to this book. I'm an informal host and I will often text people on the day to see if they want to come round for something to eat. Over the course of the photoshoot for this book, I'd often text neighbors to find out who was free and then invite them over to eat all the food we just cooked. I've done the same when clearing out the freezer. So what I'm gonna ask you to do now, Angela, we're all here, we wanna be on your contact. Ha, ha, ha, ha. We wanna be the people that you text when you clear out the freezer, when you shoot the next book. We wanna be on the list. Phone out, pass it around. If you wanna join this group, you can add your contact. Angela will text you. The largest WhatsApp group there is. Yes, yes, who is around? I think you'll be, yeah, you'll be doing a lot of catering. We too. Well, Salvatore is the best, because I'll literally, you know, you do a shoot for a day, you know. You can do, and Jonathan's very quick, so we can end up doing like eight recipes and then you're working the next day and I hate food waste. So I will pack stuff up and if Salvatore's going, why are you giving it all away? I will eat all of this. Ha, ha, ha, ha. There's only so much you can, I mean, you can get through a lot. No, no, I mean, yeah, he's like, no, what? I said, don't be ridiculous, you know. So we always, we always give our leftovers away happily. Yeah. I mean. You're not gonna be far from me with your new restaurant, so I'll shimmy over. You don't need to shimmy over, I'm coming. Ha, ha, ha. You don't need to shimmy over. I think you probably are responsible for the gentrification and increase in house prices in that part of the world. No, God, no. That was happening before me. Everybody wants to... Yeah, I know. Everybody wants to be nearby. Yeah, exactly. I did say something, I made some quickie and some article about neighbours spending their Saturday after looking at house prices and one of them said, how did you know? I said, isn't that what everyone does in London? Just look at that, you know. It's our national pastime and our birth light. Yeah, exactly. It's what they do, yeah. OK, the stage is yours, guys. You have the questions. Angela has the answers. Go on and have that one. The roving mic is kicking around somewhere. You can... Was kicking around somewhere? You can shout. You want a hug? Go on. Yes, OK, there you go. Yeah. Are you...? You pass as well, she's well. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Irish. Did anybody say to teach basic cooking skills to anybody? Now, I've been on loads of cooking courses and my food is still quite a flop. Yeah. My husband was a good cook, but he was Hungarian. Yeah. But it's just got worse. OK. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Do you want... Yeah, we don't want to be on your contact list. Yeah. Don't call us. I think lots of people did. I don't think there was any... You know, because the BBC did a lot of things in Covid. I think what they had, and it's whether you're on the social media nonsense thing of Instagram, there were a lot of chefs doing lots of Instagram posts, I think, weren't there? I mean, I had friends that would do a post every day. I think I did one and thought, I cannot do this. God, what a nightmare. You know, the thought of having to do it every day and enthusiastically. So, but you're right. There were many missed opportunities and that could have been a very good one. I regret as we were laughing about the other day. We had a party, I don't know, a few months ago and we had a friend over with kids. And I do what I'm sure everyone in this room does and maybe not admit that when you have a party, you don't actually clear up. You just throw it all in a spare room. And I literally, you know, just move all the crap from downstairs one floor up and put it in a room. Kids were there. So in the next room, we put them in the TV room, but obviously kids are kids and they wander around and they came running downstairs going, Mum, Mum, Mum, I just got a room just like you, Mum, when you put all your rubbish. And I was in front of everyone. I said, all right, all right, steady on. Kate goes, yeah, I shouldn't see what you do. So, but yeah, I think that could have been a good thing, actually. But I'm going to tell you the best person, Delia Smith, honestly, if you can get her stuff online or buy her books, I think one of recipes absolutely work with our Shadow of a Doubt, and she's very clear instructions. Honestly, I swear by Delia. There's still hope. Yeah, still hope. There isn't, huh? Beyond redemption. I think this is where we as restaurateurs come in. Yeah. I think we failed you maybe as recipe writers, but we will cook for you. Yeah. Next questions, Roving Mike. Oh yeah. Sounds very convivial and great fun. Are you equally social at breakfast? Oh God, no. I don't like, I have a cup of coffee and I don't like chatting in the morning. And it's not often we're all there at the weekend, but there was a while my sister was living with us and Anne likes to chat in the morning. Neil definitely likes to chat and I would just literally pick my coffee up and leave the room. You know, so I'm not a social breakfast person, no. I mean, I will say there is no breakfast chapter here. There's no, yeah. I didn't notice it. There is nothing about breakfasts. So, thank you so much. That was amazing. Thank you. And your book gives us the license as home cooks to kind of be home cooks. Yeah. One of the criticisms that chefs get is that they're too chefy, but home cooks get criticized that they're not elevated enough. They don't advise us as home cooks dealing with hangary hordes and, you know, super hangary children. How do we elevate our food on a daily basis when we don't have very much time? So, practical tips. Oh, that's a good one. Why do you feel you need to elevate it for your family, if you're cooking for them every night? They should be grateful for it. Ignorance. No, right? It's just personal pressure, you know. Personal pressure. I suppose it's the word we were using, Pimp It Up. I sort of think, I don't know, and actually, if I'm honest, believe in elevating food. I mean, I think part of the problem is, and even though it's done like a real well, is all these food shows, especially the likes of Masterchef, make everyone think that you have to do a smear and a swirl and all the rest of it, which is absolutely a load of old rubbish, quite frankly. You know, at the end of the day, you want to offer a plate of food that's delicious, and that's really what I think is the best thing about it. And for me, when we have people at home, my favorite thing is I don't even plate up. I never, I mean, I might, I suppose I'm at the table, I'll bring a bowl of pasta up, and I might serve it in front of everyone, but I do not have plating in the kitchen, any of, we literally put it in the middle of the table, everyone helps themselves, and I think that's the way to do it, because you want to have a good time. So that's how I would do it with your family. I would just give them a great delicious plate of food and tell them to cook it themselves if they're going to, honestly. I mean, if I said that to my mother, she'd be like, are you kidding me? No, and I think, and I actually think food's there to be enjoyed. Yes, she wants to be appetizing, and it's going to be colourful, I suppose, with a peel of the eye, but ultimately, you don't remember that, you remember what it tastes like, and it's just going to be delicious, and just, you know, cook seasonally, it will be cheaper, and then you don't have to mess around with it. I hope that helps. I mean, let's talk about chef heating. I think that always the worst home meal is better than a very good restaurant meal. Maybe not yours, but maybe, like most times, I prefer home food than restaurant food. Yeah, and actually, I did this thing with... Sorry. No, but I think that's it, because there's, not to say no care gone into a restaurant meal, but when someone makes you a home meal, I think you really are putting yourself out there in a way, and I think, you know, there's more effort, I feel goes into it, because, especially if someone's not a cook, or they don't like doing it, and someone's cooked for you, I think that's a really big deal, I agree, yeah. Where are you on Chefy Tweezers? I don't use them. Listen, I'm going to put my hands up, a lot of my chefs at Murano, they do, they even bought me a pair for Christmas, and they laugh, because I dress with my hands, and they make, and you know, M, she's brilliant, she's a great head chef, and she runs it, and I can absolutely trust her to do it brilliantly, but they do like the old Tweezer, and then they laugh when I run the pass, because I just use a spoon and my hands, and they're there, and I say, give me those, and I literally, and they're like, and I said, it still looks good, you know, I'm not going to send that rub, you know, but sometimes I'm like the urgency of, I'm going to be more worried that it gets cold, that will be my thing, while they're, anyway. I get it. Micro-herbs? No, no, it's got a taste good, Giorgio Locatelli always says, I only put something on a plate that you're going to eat everything, and it's got a purpose, I don't see the point, because I don't taste of anything, because they taste of anything, but they don't. Sea buckthorn? No, not me. How is that legal? No, foraging, I don't even, that's too much, especially when someone's foraged at a restaurant east, there's always foraging in Victoria Park, that's where I take my dog for a walk, I'm like, why do I want to know that? And why do I want to eat this food? Anyway, I won't mention the restaurant, but it's just like, you know, there's foraging and foraging, yeah, exactly, yeah. We hit the Elderflower, I love Elderflower, yeah, I get Elderflower, Wild Garlic, Luke brings it to the New Forest, yeah, no, there are certain things, you know. New Forest Clapper, I'm common, whatever. Same level of cleanliness, whatever. Roving Mike, there you are. Angela, the book's fantastic. Thank you. Alongside Delia, the books you buy for friends and family. Do you want me to leave the room for that? Yeah, well, to be honest, I do buy, I've bought their books for the chefs at work, because the chefs at work, especially, and Marana always buy them a book for Christmas, but they'll always buy chef-y books, so I buy, not the old, it's not an un-chef-y book, but I buy them books that are just about delicious food, and you know, I love the book Honey & Co. I think they're brilliant, they are, and they're books I will refer to, and if you haven't bought their barbecuing book, the way you do that ribeye is brilliant, and actually, I used that, I did that whole sauce. Really? Yeah, the one with the red peppers and everything else. I like Simon Hopkinson, I mentioned him earlier, I think he's a great cookery writer, I like Nigel Slater, who else? I like, for Italian food, unfortunately, dead now, Marcella Hassan, I mean, she's old school Italian food, but I think it's brilliant, and I quite like, even though all our publishers will hate me for it, I like books with no pictures, I quite like the old school, I mean everyone wants pictures, but I quite like the idea, you don't necessarily have a picture for every recipe. Who else? Yeah, and I tend to, and actually, she's a great food writer, I only recently got to know her, but I think she writes really well, and I love her recipes, and I think it's very much how we think, big families, big plates of food on the table. And also, the thing is, recipes are a guide, you can use them and substitute stuff. Yotam has great recipes, but I love him, but bloody hell, there's a lot of ingredients, but I've even, but then that's trusting yourself. I mean we did his shawarma lamb, which I'm sure, and it is delicious, and there's so many ingredients, and something like that I wouldn't, but other rings, I think if you want to substitute it with something else, don't feel afraid to, it's what you want to do. With that recipe, don't change. Don't change that. I was just kidding, do whatever you want. You stick to the recipe. Do you have a stack of cookbooks by the bed? They're everywhere. It's just ridiculous. They're everywhere. We've got this outhouse, which again, we had the whole of lockdowns and yet we didn't, which in trying to get them all, and I realised I've bought books over time for all the guys at the restaurant, and I've bought too many, so I've got four of Jamie's italy book, and I've got probably five of Nevis, so I need to just basically, I keep saying to all the new kids, I've got to bring all these books into a bark, in tenor a book, and just give them to, you know, or whatever. That's at a whole level, like we don't, you know, buy also, but actually we do with them. Questions from the Rovers? So many Rovers. Hi. I'm interested in the process of where am I looking? Oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, because you've included other people's recipes in your book, did they cook it for you or just write it down and you cooked it back for them, or what was the process to make the recipe? Oh, I see, well Nick had, it depends who it was, Basil, who has Basil's ham in there, Basil cooked it one Christmas for us, and then I, and as I said Basil, I want to put your ham in the recipe, I guess, I can't remember darling, so I came up with a recipe and then said, you approve this, and happy. Nick wrote his recipe for me, Randall did, Steve did, Jonathan did, Katie did, so it was only Basil actually that I had to write the recipe for. Everyone else gave me their recipe, then I tried it, checked I was happy with it, and then put it in the book. Did you make any changes? No, I didn't actually. The only, I made, because I think when someone doesn't write recipes, they're very, like, lots of description. I cut things out. Not cut things out, I just made it simple. Yeah, exactly, streamlined it. But generally they are their recipes, yeah. No, Basil was actually around my house early again, where's my book? I don't remember giving me that recipe. And I said, well to be fair, you didn't. I wrote it, I mean, I just remember the night we had it, which was delicious, except for the ridiculous amount of gratinated leeks he did. I mean, like, literally like that. I've never seen a pot like it. It still scares me when I think about it. Yeah. When did you meet any resistance? No. Because everybody was happy too. I think everyone was very happy to it. Yeah, they were, they were very, and it's lovely, like John and Sandy, who have allotments, you know, there's an artichoke soup, and there's a couple, and they were their artichokes, not necessarily their recipes, but, you know, every certain time to the year, you get a little delivery outside your door, it's definitely a lot. Did you get the reverse saying, oh yeah, you know, people dropping by saying, oh yeah, maybe for your book I hear you're doing, maybe you want my recipe. No, no, I haven't, I didn't have any of that. No, no, we don't have enough pages. No, no, no, unfortunately I didn't have any of that. Yeah, probably will now, and now people will come up to me and go, why don't you ask me? Well, I don't say. It's probably going to cause a lot of anger. I mean, I think probably in the follow-up. Oh, right, follow-up. Like, and I may do this. It would be a great recipe book, because then I won't have to do much. It's like, give me a recipe, I'll test it. Copy and paste. Copy and paste. Exactly, give me the money. Speaking of borrowed recipe, that chocolate cake though. Oh, Randall's, yeah. That is good, yeah. I mean, Randall, to be fair to Randall, every Christmas he bakes goods for the for your Christmas, you know, bring you a little something or other, and a little note with it. And I'm terrible, you know, I barely put a card through people's doors. But Randall is very good, so I told him the other day, I said it's looking good, and he's like, he loves it, he's a baker. Yeah, it looks... It is good, it is very good. I'm not allowed to sort of praise other people's cakes in my... I mean, I don't like it, but I was kind of like, I like it when you come, yeah. Yeah. It's very appealing cake. You will see it all. Rovers, we have a beautiful... Nope, that way. Thank you. Question for both of you. Oh. What's your favourite dish? Oh, favourite dish, go on. There's this chocolate cake recipe, yes. Mine, it would be something with chocolate, I have to say. Really? Yeah. Okay, sweet tooth. Not really, but chocolate is my thing and chocolate cake in particular, that's my thing, and I'm happy to be very open and invite all chocolate cakes to my table. Okay. Sorry, I haven't tried this yet, but my wife is going to kill me. It's called the Midnight Chocolate Cake from Samine's Book, Sulfate Acid Heat. And it's super simple, it's like a child's birthday cake. I don't think it even has chocolate, I think it's just cocoa. So it corrects me if I'm wrong or right? It has chocolate, but it's not like... but I'm just like, that's me done. Oh, she done. Nigella does a really good one. This one has sour creaming. That's a really good one. I tried that one, yeah. But Randall's is pretty good. Is there something that's not improved by sour cream? Yeah, no, I love sour cream. Sour cream is so good. Roasted chicken, I think. I'm savoury, I'm not a big sweet person. I like savoury, so a good roast chicken if I'm absolutely honest. Because there's many things after it, I like the next day. Because you have all the leftovers. So that's my thing. What makes a good roast chicken? A good chicken for a start. He doesn't have to be... And I think just crispy skin, nice and moist. And don't, you know, again, just rosemary and lemon and a bit of garlic. And that's it, you don't need to put too much else. Salt and pepper, done. There's a really, again, one of the recipes that I clocked from here is the Neil's roast chicken. Neil does it, he joins it all down. And it does work. He takes a whole chicken, he'll joint it down and then he literally will empty the fridge. You know, you'll have the odd potato or tomato or something, whatever's in the fridge. He cuts, washes it all, cuts it all up and then just puts all... surrounds the chicken, puts all of that on the veg and just puts it in the oven. So all those juices go into all that veg. And we must have had that about a hundred times. And so it's Sunday night chicken because that's what we have on a Sunday night. You know, again, it's a very simple thing, but just cutting it up and roasting it like this, it kind of protects you from drying. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It really works and also presentation. Again, on the table, yeah, done, yeah. But the slices of lemon, I'm there for it. Yeah, completely. Thank you. I was looking at your recipe after Neil's, the one where you're boiling it in the casserole. Pressure does the Michelin star system put on the restaurant industry. Oh, hello, you two. How are you? Yeah. They're good regulars. It does put pressure. It's two-way fold. It's great to have it because it's great. As you know, we've got great staff at Murano and one of the reasons they work there is because we have a star without doubt and they want that on there. Yeah, I think chefs especially, I think they want that on their sort of CV. And I think it's about just, and Michelin, I think everyone misunderstands it to a degree. I think the first star is about consistency. It's that simple. It sounds that simple. I don't mean it like that, but just making sure that every time they come in, if they have a lemon tart, it's equally the same every single time they come in. And it's not about the service or the wine list or the tablecloth or anything like that. It's about consistency of food. The second star they talk about that they start to see the definition of the chef. So if you think about people who have two stars you've got Sap Baines, you've got Claude Bosset, you know you can identify their food and if you look at a three star chef they say you could do a blind tasting and no, identify that chef. So you could say Gordon Ramsay restaurant Claire, the fat duck, etc. So I sort of always do look at that and I think that's how it is. Listen, we have a star I don't think I want to lose it because it does bring certain benefits I suppose to the restaurant and I think it's good for the team. But there is a pressure to make sure for certainly that you want to get everything right in the kitchen and I'll be honest there was a time that we were changing chefs and we had a new chef and he just wasn't into it and we had a really bad report and they came in and they called him aside and I wasn't at the restaurant that day and then I get a phone call going Michelin have been in and this is what they said and I read it and I went oh my god but I've you know fortunately had a star since I started at the Conal so god near on 20 years now and I think the clever thing is to me they're like customers at the end of the day yes they're writing a report, yes people can read it but they are customers and they didn't have a great experience so I treated them like I would if I read a complaint on seven rooms and I emailed them and I said you didn't have a good time blah blah blah blah blah next time you're in town can we meet and they did and the chef had changed they came to another inspection they saw me and they said listen Andrew and they were quite honest they said we know you've been with us we realised it was a blip but we just wanted you to be aware of that blip and I actually thought that was credit to them to do that but they were quite honest they said if you had been in a new restaurant we'd given a start last year and we let ourselves down we're not perfect no one can I'm sure there's times you guys have been that things haven't been right but hopefully we've rectified it or Laura's charmed you enough but it is front of house that's where Laura's been with me nearly 12 years now and she's amazing but she knows the regular she knows what people want but you need those that's the great thing about I think when I started it was the chef the chef now it's not it's about just great food and it's about great service I will go back to a restaurant nine times out of ten because the service is as brilliant as the food and if the service is bad I won't go near it again I'll forgive a bit of cold pasta or something but if someone's rude not because I'm in the business but you know when you walk in and someone's like yes and you're like are you kidding me are I contact could you just look at me I think you know why you don't want to be here so why are you here and to be fair I think London we're pretty good at our service I think we're a friendly bunch I think we are a friendly bunch we don't have that reputation I think sometimes I've been to New York and I felt that a little bit New York restaurant hosts and London estate agents yes I feel that it's like why do you have to be so mean to me I just want to don't shout it's so small there was twice two restaurants I went to and they literally like she didn't look up and I was like hello the thing is they're so packed out there they get away with it which is shocking I mean I don't know I don't get it it's just like an I'm like in New York well my brother's there and actually I'm there in a week's time to get to my nephew's graduation but there's a few restaurants I know that I'll go to but I sort of love the vibe of it but I've grown in confidence where I think New York do do it brilliantly years ago I went to out there and I did some starges and that was you know I literally rocked up to restaurants and said I just finished working with Gordon Ramsey can I go and do a day in your kitchen and then you'd eat at restaurants and I think we have it now but we didn't for a while that great bar scene where people sat at a bar and ate and I remember going into Gramercy Tavern chatting away and I was you know because I was staying with my brother but he was working and my brother was like what are you doing today so you felt you had to go into my tinnery oh well I'm getting up and I'm going for breakfast and I'd go off for lunch and then I was chatting oh you've got to go and eat here and then he goes my bar my mate's a barman I'll get you a reservoir you know I think we've got that now but for a while we didn't I think that's where they're great New York restaurants but there are other things they could do better I love that London estate agents gotta hear that story yeah I mean how long have you got where are you going to eat in New York just out of curiosity I'm called Via Carotta which is where we are and very friendly actually the only friendly place a place called Rez D'auza Rez D'auza, Rez D'auza, Rez D'auza who's this guy from Emilia Romagna background which is where my grandparents came from that I would definitely go we had a brilliant meal there and Estella Estella, Estella that's so good so those two probably they're great friendly although one of the waiters did say and actually he is a great friend I've got his mobile number on my phone and stuff but we sort of went to take a picture he said don't take a picture of me we said we're not, we're taking a picture of us but that was the only odd thing about him but after that he was fine I don't know why we just sort of threw us cause we were like we don't want a picture of you his book's fantastic as well yeah his book is brilliant that's what I was thinking I just think about the salad like so good what were you talking about Michelin stars did we answer the question I think so, you're happy with that answer thank you do you like the sort of high Michelin experience? do you go to the I will if I'm taking some of the cooks out or the chefs out and stuff I do and I don't I just sort of a bit past being told how to eat stuff and people well there's two things isn't there there's age that when I first started going out to lots of restaurants 15 years ago, 20 years ago and I was looking around Europe and trying to find or see different restaurants I could go for lunch and dinner I can still eat a lot but I can't do that I struggle to do two meals in a day and I don't want to be there at a table for five hours anymore I'd like to two and a half, three and not every 30 seconds be told this is what you're eating or mouthful I just want a meal I just want a proper pallete of food and even though I've done a lot of them like El Bule which is the big one in Spain or was in Spain Ferran Adrián and I was going with a group of chefs, Phil was one of them John Campbell and I don't think John will mind me telling this story and the night before I had won I think I'd won Chef of the Year award at the Katie's and I ended up with a friend of mine, you and in the Electric Club in Notting Hill until the early hours of the morning and missed my flight the next day to El Bule to many flights I've missed in my life anyway I still thought, God I'm going to go on the next flight I can just hear my wife's appreciation of you going down like this I can just see it because I'm late she's now in her head thinking I like her a lot less now I missed two flights in one day once at the same airport it's a prize I'm very good at it's a talent but missing the flight to El Bule so I basically missed it and I got on the next flight and I said, and prior to that I'd already said to Kirsty, I primed her up I said, when I go there do not put me next to John Campbell and I said, John I love you but you're going to take photos, you're going to write notes and you're going to ruin my experience I just want to eat food and just enjoy it and so I get on my cab and I'm bleeding it so I get there and this is where amazing service even though they were already an hour and a bit into the meal or maybe even two hours into the meal they start me from the beginning they literally still do every course that they've given feeling everyone around the table and so I catch up to them I'm not near John writing all his notes so I'm even more happy and I'm at the end of the table just catching up eating in the time I want because they're sort of doing the rest of the table I'm not getting all that this is this although of course they do tell me and it's amazing and afterwards Phil says to me he goes, you jammy cow how did you manage that I said it's brilliant wasn't it I said El Bullo in three hours and I didn't have to sit next to John because you know and to me that is you know like lots of people we went to Noma you know back in the day when I think it was a two star and you still ordered a la carte and you know and a lot of people I think that's that I feel really bad for chefs when they get to this two three star level that everyone's a critic saying oh I went there it wasn't three star and it's like you know come on who really knows and we just go with the attitude and now I still do that with Neil we just went and had a great time and we got there at one we left at five there was more bottles and there's two bottles per all of us at the table there's about six or eight of us we knew half the chefs in the kitchen because loads of English chefs were doing starges and we had a brilliant experience you know and I think that you've got one of those places not as these gastronomic you know temples but you're going for a night out so enjoy yourself and that and actually I think the more I go to places like that the more people who work and want you to do that I don't think anyone wants to serve anyone you know it's not fun is it they want it you want to engage I'd like to think so anyway because it's hospitality yeah it's kind of like the split between impress or yeah yeah it's a difficult one yeah that was interesting I'm just wondering if chefs can in any way encourage people to eat the cheaper cuts of meat that you don't see any longer in supermarkets you can only get in butchers scragg end of neck makes the best lamb stew some of the the cheaper beef cuts is there some way that chefs who are always on the TV can encourage people to go back to eating that which is you know time of austerity is going to be a lot easier for people to be able to afford but they've got to understand it because you know it does take a little bit longer but it's not it's not poison no I mean we've got a lamb stew in this book which is that thing and it's that sort of just yeah and you're absolutely right and I always think the judgement of a good chef is not just taking the prime cuts because it's easy to take the prime cuts and just roast a bit of fillet or something the clever chef will take lamb neck lamb shank shin of beef that sort of thing so I think yeah I mean I'd like to think we aren't more responsible there's certainly a lot of braising in there because again I think home cooking who wants to be sitting there saying to people medium rare well done you know whereas actually you can put it all in a pan and cook it for hours and it's going to be more delicious than a fillet or something like that so I think that's a good thing ironically certain things that probably would have been eaten 20 well 30 40 years ago like sweetbreads like veal shank and now very expensive to buy in a restaurant even though you can't buy it in a supermarket but it's a very may come much more fashionable thing and I think kidneys and stuff like that are delicious I love those sort of things you know and they're done not so much awful but certainly slow cooking slow cooking stews she would make a lot of and even my mum the other day I bought her some shin and this is how the you know I bought the shin I left it to Neil to make he did the first stage he left it to South Victoria to finish it gets to my mum and she says to me it was awful it was like what and she goes wasn't cooked enough and between the pair of them they hadn't you know but it is that whole thing of slow cooking but I think there's a lot of chefs that do do it in their restaurant but probably don't do it enough on TV you're absolutely right you know how it sounds like a lot of fun you've got 12 we'll get our dates together because I've been telling you they'll come over you heard that yeah you have it on record there was more question yes lady down the front it's nice to know it would be so light when we go out I know I love summer in this country yeah magic sorry my dear any tips for cooking gluten free pasta that's a good one actually I've got to be honest I'm not the best at that but there's a great dish it's not in this book but if you look it up it's buckwheat flour which is gluten free and it's called pizzocchi and it's from the Lombardia region and it's more wintery but you could do it with a great gluten free pasta and basically it's the simplest ingredients but made delicious so you have dice cabbage you know roughly dice boiled potatoes and sage and you basically cook your buckwheat pasta mix all the potato because you've cooked them they start to break down to form the sauce around the pasta you've got your cabbage sage in there and then fontina cheese and a lot of the time they sort of do it like that then put it in a dish and then bake it in the oven so and that is a delicious sort of great one for summery yeah it's not very summery it's not very wintery it's the one that Stanley Tucci wrote about in the book he might have done actually I've read parts of it I think he caused a little bit of that but pizza curry is a great one and I think there's some great gluten free pasta brands out there I'll be honest with you we don't make our own gluten free pasta but we do have it available so there's lots out there to use pleasure thank you your cookbooks are terrific thank you so much continue yeah you can go on it's fine your wife she's like this up there she's like this for the last 20 years inspiring everyone she's used to it you touched on there about going to restaurants and having mouthfuls of food on social media this week there's been circulating from a Kardashian wedding a plate of pasta which was just about a fork full and everyone was ridiculing it so my question is do you wear your pasta when you serve it at home and if so what would you consider to be an adequate portion per person oh god a Kardashian portion I didn't see that so you get your normal half kilo 500g bag say of rigatoni or penne we probably do for four of us one of those bags I'd say I don't weigh it the only thing I do weigh my sister-in-law bought me this it's like a plastic thing for spaghetti there's one portion, two portion three portion although I did the two portion the other day for Neil and I and it was loads but we don't I sort of do it I do it in Salvatore he goes come on it's not enough and we do eat the next day I always put cold pasta there is a lot to be said for cold pasta yeah it's not bad one of life's yeah the crunchiness yeah exactly I don't mind the old cold pasta dish but I think yeah what's the point of that I need to be fair that fork full of pasta there's more carbs than they had in the last 20 years you know and it's only was it a first just a first wedding so worth waiting for the next urge for more pasta at least pay for the next wedding are we taking online people what is the world coming to more important than ever do you think attending cooking school to embark on a good career in food is a must on top of other obvious criteria like really committed always hungry to learn to go to a cooking school to go in a cookery school I don't think it's a must if I'm honest I think it depends how much I think for me when anyone ever says to me oh my son or daughter or whatever I want to go into cooking I say my advice is go to a big kitchen or a hotel kitchen to do all your basics and spend good two years there you know if you could become an apprentice at somewhere like you know or the even though they're fancier restaurants you'll learn everything I think or you go to a decide what cuisine you want to do if you want to do you know Middle Eastern cuisine you go and work for these guys you go to Yotam you know but I think the key is you stay somewhere for over a year because you see the seasons and too many people go I'll do six months what's the point of doing six months you don't see winter you don't see the summer you don't see a season of cooking in a restaurant so that's a major key what do you think what's your I think maybe I would always advise for someone to be like a dentist and make lots of money which is a much better way of enjoying your food I mean I'm enjoying my work but it's not a great career is it no please I never went to chef's school I agree with Angela go to a big kitchen start on Monday if you're there by Wednesday then it's probably for you you will know by Wednesday I know very quickly if you and definitely I think what you said is so important sticking to the one kitchen and learning what they do in a deep way for a year or two is so important and you know we just did a dinner with these local college students down in Bornsmouth and we were saying to them they're third year students I said what are you doing I don't know I don't know I said right spend the next few months go into visit kitchens go and see and I said it doesn't matter what you do because one goes I'll work in McDonald's I said I worked in McDonald's when I was a student I said it's not the end of the world if you want to make pizzas if you want to go and do Michelin if you want to go and work in a care home whatever you do just be the best at it make the best pizza make the best burger don't do second best that's my point but you don't have to come to a restaurant there's so many other ways you can cook if you want to and actually McDonald's chefs are always amazing it's really structured I didn't get any yellow stars I hated I worked hard but I didn't like that you had to talk in a code like you know rather than say you know I need four big Macs you would go I need 429th or anything and I'd go can I not just say I need four big Macs you know why do I have to talk and I used to get really and they'd go Angela you know and they'd walk by and she'd go sell up because it was upminster where I knew I knew the people I wasn't selling up so my uncle said to me he goes I can't believe I'm better than your green badge I said it became a pride of place with my friend Nicola and I refused to do and we did it for a summer because we needed the money but I was going can I have three cheeseburgers and they'd go can you just do it in the McDonald's finger it's very army isn't it yes yeah and I probably would have got fired if I hadn't left but anyway it was fun it was good I mean we digress so yeah yeah do we have any more questions? do we have time? let's do the last one where do you stand on having cheese with seafood with pasta? well I'll be honest with you wow the most controversial for last so I if you'd asked me that 80 months ago I would have gone no no no it's like having pineapple on a pizza there you go that's the other thing or coriander my other pet hate but there's an amazing restaurant in the island of Barano in Venice in the Veneto area called Gatto Nero run by some dear friends of mine their son Matimiliano and they cook a lot in the seahorse down in Dartmouth with Mitch Tonks and every year they go down there and last year they were down there and Mitch does this festival the Dartmouth food festival and they were cooking and you know we were all invited to go as guests and actually I said to Mitch I just want to go and cook with the mum and dad can I just go in the kitchen with them he goes yeah sure you know come on I said no no I just want to go and cook with them and they made this amazing pasta with this paccuri so it's sort of like a big rigatoni but quite round it's a little bit of steam mussels squid and stuff like that they made this gorgeous sauce tiny little bit of chilli all the paccuri goes in it's all cooked together a little bit of parsley and stuff like that and at the end a little bit of parmesan and I went whoof but actually as he said the key is parmesan acted as the seasoning you didn't get all that cheesy flavour because parmesan is salt acted as the seasoning so since then I say yes see that's it you learn something new every day but you change you move forward how are you with fish and butter I like fish and butter you don't like fish and butter you like fish and olive oil I struggle with the butter I like it with some fish but normally we cook everything and then maybe certain dishes if it's going to have a butter sauce maybe we might put a bit in but it's normally with I like a good french beurre blanc I've got to say the old beurre blanc of course I like butter look at me guys thank you so much for coming here Angela thank you so much thank you thank you