 Hello and welcome everyone to NIMO's webinar out in the open using AutoHeritage to foster social cohesion. Our webinar today is facilitated by the MEMEX project. MEMEX stands for Memories and Experiences for Inclusive Digital Storytelling and we are very much looking forward to hear more about the approach and methods of this project in this next hour. My name is Mira and I work for NIMO. At the Network for Museums in Europe our main activities are advocating for museums at the EU level, providing training opportunities, providing a platform for museums to exchange and learn from each other and helping museums to collaborate across borders. Today we have five different speakers and representatives of the project and I welcome Corinne Stein-Sneider, Alessio del Bu, Cristina de Damilano, Fran Garcia and Ivo Osterbeck. We will have a Q&A session at the end of the presentation so please write your questions in the chat function or if you feel like showing up on stage please let us know and we can allow you to open your microphone and camera and please note that the whole session is recorded and put on our NIMO's YouTube channel afterwards. To further introduce the project I hand over to Corinne Stein-Sneider. Corinne, the floor is yours. Hello everybody, my name is Corinne Stein-Sneider and I'm the coordinator of the Michael Kutcher Association which is a European network working on digital cultural heritage and we are a partner of NIMO. And we are one of the partners of the MEMEX project. We are particularly pleased to present today the results so far of the MEMEX project and we are very grateful to NIMO for this opportunity and we really do hope that we will be able to discuss with all of you during this session. So we have several representatives of the MEMEX partnership here. We have Alessio Del Bué, who is a senior researcher at the Italian Institute of Technology of Genoa. Alessio is the coordinator of the project and he will do a general presentation of the project as well as a detailed presentation of the MEMEX app prototype. We have also with us Christina D'Amilano, she's the president of the ECOM association and she will present the digital storytelling methodology used in the project as well as the policy brief. We have also with Fran Garcia, who is project officer at Interats and who is in charge of the pilots in general, Ivo Osterbick, project manager at Mapa Das Ideas, who is in charge of the pilot in Lisboa. And they will present the pilot challenges and the achievements of the pilots. And we have also for the session a question and answer of three other colleagues with us. Two are James, who is a researcher at the Italian Institute of Technology of Genoa, Katarina Gomez, who is project and communication manager at Mapa Das Ideas, and my colleague Maud Entonga, who is communication manager for Michael Culture. And I give the floor to Alessio and I wish you a nice session. Thank you, Corinne, for the presentation. And thank you everyone for joining us in this meeting, but we're going to explain our project. So MEMEX project is a European Union research and innovation action of three years' length. The project will end this year in November 2022. So we are very happy to have the chance today to show the project achievement we reached so far. MEMEX is a highly interdisciplinary project. He has partners that works in social science and in technology. And this interdisciplinary is useful in this research project because we are trying to understand if technology might help the social inclusion of people. And especially people that are at the margin of our society in a way that being socially excluded by the cultural activity we can bring them together to such activities and such exploitation of our cultural richness. So the aims of the project are, of course, not only as I said, but are in practice to obtain best practices for the social inclusion and to develop strategies for audience engagement and to create digital tools to access cultural heritage, digital cultural heritage as well. So our communities have been selected and clustered in three pilots that are spread around all Europe. The first one is in Barcelona, where the communities are mainly migrant women. Later we will see in details an explanation about the communities we involved in Paris where we are the district 19 and as well in Lisbon, Portugal where we have the first, second generation migrants involved in our testing. So the idea is to use these ICT tools in the easiest ways as possible. So we are creating an app that can be used on smartphone but is able to provide tools for digital storytellers. So the migrants are expressing stories about their life and their connection to the heritage that is present in their geographical region. So in practice what Mamex is trying to do is creating a map of the stories of the people that are geolocalized in our system and one of the practical views of what we do is really this map-like world where each point link to a story that is related to a specific place and a specific heritage in the ground. So we are trying to connect the untangible story of the people to their physical place and the heritage of our place. So we are trying to reconnect. So sorry to interrupt you Alessio, we cannot see the slides. I'm very sorry. We are seeing the full PowerPoint. Okay, now you can see. Perfect. Thank you. So as I was telling, one of the embodiment of Mamex is a map of the stories that are linked to our physical spaces and here you can see some of the examples. So the tools itself is really an app that enable people to create the stories in a totally digital way and to link these stories to geolocalized places. So this technology of course has to be tailored to the user and from day one the project of Mamex together with the pilots and the partners that put the users in front of them in order to understand which are their needs and how to promote them as well as the use of the technology. And for this reason I will leave the ground to Cristina, the Milano, that was highly involved in the digital storytelling methodology and the policy recommendation of the project. So please Cristina. Thank you, Alessio, and happy to meet all of you participants to this webinar and thanks again for giving us the opportunity of presenting Mamex and the methodology that we have been using during the project in the last two and a half years. So maybe Alessio you can go on with the next one, with the next slide. As Alessio said, we have been using in the project a quite innovative methodology, let's say approach, better use the word approach, because it is a cross sectoral approach based on interdisciplinarity. Alessio already mentioned this word, which is really key to fully understand also the potential of a project like Mamex. We have used basically a co-creation based process, which has been the basis to try to put together the two very different souls of this project, the technological one on the one hand, and the social and cultural one on the other hand. So basically we started by co-creating all the activities together, trying to understand each other, to share our different views, our different points of views, our different competences, obviously, and to merge everything in something which could actually lead us to achieve the goals of the project. And why did I use the word co-creation? Because actually the whole idea underpinning the Mamex project is based on audience development. I guess you are all familiar with this expression, which is a very important aspect of European cultural policies in the last 15 to 20 years, and which is an expression, meaning basically trying to create a relationship between cultural institutions, cultural organizations, and the largest groups of society. Co-creation is one of the most important features of these strategic features of audience development processes and strategies, and we have started using co-creation not only with our, let's say, end users, with the groups that Alessio has already mentioned, but we started within the partnership because co-creation was, as I said, at the basis of what we did together. And after having shared our visions and having found a common point where we actually met at midway, let's say, between the needs of the technological partners and aspects of the project and the social and cultural one, then we could go on working and sharing the methodological approach based on storytelling and technological innovation, which are the two main features of the Mamex project. Alessio, please, you can go on. Yes, here we are. Digital storytelling is the methodology we used. It's a creative practice. Basically, it's a process which combines the art of telling stories and, at the same time, using technology to develop these very short personal stories in a digital format. So, obviously, it has a very strong co-creative aspect in it because creativity and personal creativity is at the basis of digital storytelling. It also has a very strong autobiographical perspective. Why? Well, because actually we asked participants to develop personal stories based on their own experiences, on their own memories, and, in our case, linked, strictly linked to cultural heritage. So actually, cultural heritage acted as a trigger to develop these memories, experiences, thoughts and feelings related to heritage, which then converged, became short stories realized through digital tools. And this is a process which is used in many other domains. Actually, the use of digital storytelling in the cultural field is quite recent, if compared with its use in other domains. But we have experienced it since many years already with a great deal of success because being so personal and so autobiographical, it actually allows people to share, create new visions, new links between themselves and cultural heritage. Alessio, you can go on with the next one. Another thing that we did within the MEMEX project has been the production of two policy briefs, actually containing policy recommendations, which are strictly related to the methodology we used. The first one was a policy brief focusing on capacity-building actions targeting cultural and social professionals. And this, in a way, is linked to what I said at the beginning of this presentation, the effort that we made, cultural, social and technological partners, to try to find a common ground on which to start working on the basis of which to start working on digital storytelling within the MEMEX project. So it was absolutely crucial to share also a path, a sort of activity of capacity building among ourselves, among the partners. And this is even more crucial if we think at capacity building that should be addressed to cultural and social professionals in order to use a tool such as digital storytelling to engage people, to improve their capacities of using digital tools on one hand, but mainly to participate, to active participate in cultural practices and cultural activities, to be legitimized also to express their own visions and to have their voices heard through the stories. So it is absolutely essential to focus on capacity building in this respect. The other policy brief was about assessing social impact in MEMEX. This is another very important part of MEMEX, assessing the results, assessing the impact of the digital storytelling activities in the three pilot cities and assessing the results in terms of the change that they might or might not have generated in the participants. So the whole assessment methodology within MEMEX is based on the theory of change, which means we are trying to achieve a change of perspective, a change of vision, a change of attitude towards heritage, and we are trying to assess obviously all these elements. We are in the middle of the assessment phase. It is absolutely important also to make cultural and social professionals aware of new methodologies, new possibilities in terms of impact assessment to evaluate to assess whether the results are meaningful and whether these results can be, let's say, taken forward, taken to a more, let's say, a deeper relationship between communities, local communities and cultural heritage, which is the main objective we are trying to achieve with MEMEX. I am done and of course I'm ready for further questions or comments at the end of the session. Thank you, Alessio. Hello, good morning. My name is Fran Grazia and I'm program officer at Intro Arts. We are a private foundation based in Barcelona. I'm starting the presentation of the pilot project on behalf of the social partners. I will be accompanied by Corinne Stein Schneider and from Michel Culture in Paris and Eva Osterbeck-Mapalassidias in Portugal. Next, please. As mentioned by my colleagues, the social partners, since the beginning of the project, we have been implementing three pilot projects. The first one implemented by Intro Arts in Barcelona with migrant women in the old neighborhood of Barcelona. The second one in Paris by Michel Culture and Dedal in Rosa Parks neighborhoods with people at risk of exclusion and the third one in the historical center of Lisbon by Mapalassidias in Portugal. Of course, we have been working with the active collaboration of ECOM in Rome. So what have, what we have done so far in the pilot project? First of all, we have organized digital storytelling workshops with the communities in the three cities and on the other hand, we have been testing the app. So as said by Cristina da Milano before my intervention, there is a very important word in this project which is co-creation. So first of all, the digital storytelling workshops allowed the participants to create digital stories by linking the cultural heritage of the three cities and their memories. On the other hand, the testing of the app by the communities allowed us to co-create the features of the Mamex app. Next, please. So I would like to highlight some data. We have had more than 80 participants in the three cities and 100 stories have been created so far. I didn't mention that the stories created in Barcelona, Paris and Lisbon happened in last year in 2021. Also ECOM was in charge of creating more stories with more participants in Rejerica. Certainly this will be explained by Cristina da Milano a bit later. So in Barcelona we had 35 participants. We organized as in the other two cities a series of workshops of digital storytelling workshops. In Barcelona we had around 30 stories, 21 in Paris, 35 stories in Lisbon. We also organized as I said more than 40 usability tests with the participants to figure out the features of this Mamex app and we organized in the three cities a capacity building event for cultural institutions, museums and other associations in the three cities. Next, please. So there is another very important keyword in this process of Mamex. It's the local partnerships for us for the social partner. It was crucial to identify first cultural organizations but also migrant associations or other social organizations already working in social inclusion. And why? Because we wanted to give support to existing community cultural based projects. I'm going to give the floor to Ibo. Okay thank you Fran. Alice you can move on to the next slide. Yeah thank you. So at this point this is almost a mandatory step when we talk about challenges in projects that had activities in the past two years. We were also of course hindered in our activities by the COVID-19 pandemic. These post-difficulties not only among us as project members but also to our local stakeholders, the other entities that were helping us organize the activities on the territories of the pilots and also particularly with the people who we were working with who were vulnerable people quite often especially in the cases of Lisbon and Barcelona because they were migrants often they don't even have the same access to health institutions as other people. So the COVID-19 restrictions basically made the first semester of the first six months of the pilots a bit difficult. The second type of challenges that we had that we faced had to do with addressing the needs of participants. You can see that we had some levels of dropouts among the participants. It was very hard to make sure that the same participant would be engaged in long term in several consecutive sessions and the earliest methodology for storytelling had to be quite adapted to be shortened as a result of this. The mobilization of participants was also especially difficult in Lisbon and in Paris. In Barcelona it went a bit better because the social tissue of the local stakeholders was very helpful to that. You can move to the next one unless you please. Now of course those were common challenges that we all faced but we also had some specific challenges. One of them was the capacity for people to use technology. So the digital divide which was particularly noticeable in Barcelona and in Paris as well. In Barcelona it was also important to manage the expectations of the participants. This is perhaps because the participants and the local stakeholders were already pre-engaged which is something that didn't really happen in Paris and Lisbon. So their expectations had to be managed in a different way. Paris had of course the very hard challenge of gathering very different people. They were not looking for a homogeneous type of participant but engaging with all participants in a particular territory and it was also hard for them the support of local institutions. This was also kind of similar in Lisbon. There are not a lot of bottom-up organizations working with migrants in Lisbon and the lack of those types of associations could not help further the implementation and of course the situation, the financial situation of migrants in Lisbon made it so that it's very hard to make sure that they are engaged in a continuous process if any type of job opportunity or further migration opportunity arrives. And that's it, you can move on. I don't know if Fran was going to... Yeah, yeah. So well, as mentioned by Ibo, the process was challenging but we achieved a very interesting conclusion so far. First of all, we noticed very strong emotional involvement of the participants during the process of story creation. We have seen the group of stakeholders, the local social and cultural organizations growing during the process of the digital storytelling workshops in the three cities. The third one and I think this one is extremely interesting is we managed to co-create let's say a safe spaces where the participants they felt integrated in a group and they felt encouraged to reflect on cultural heritage in their cities and of course it was a very interesting opportunity for individual and also for collective expression. Next, regarding the more specific achievements per city, well in Barcelona what the participants said is that they felt hurt and they were able to dialogue with the cultural heritage of the city. We noticed very interesting participatory and co-creation processes. It is important to say that some stories were co-created between the different participants and it was a very interesting dialogue. They became the participants in Barcelona even tight after sharing their personal stories so we see this community development very clear and as in the other cities the storytelling workshops attracted more or other collectives in the city. In Paris, well the participants increased their digital skills and they discover more their digital cultural heritage. It was a pride for them to to valorize the neighborhood that appears to have a bad reputation. The participants rediscovered the history and the urban transformation of the area. We have seen synergies between participants and also between stakeholders and the process and methodology of MIMEX attracted as I said broader interest from the municipality and other stakeholders in Lisbon. There was an increase of communication skills of the participants to understand and to learn new digital languages. We have seen as well an increase in the cultural awareness by the participants. They started feeling like the cultural heritage of the city, like their own and they were able they are able to show their heritage and to talk about it with others and finally the pharmacy museum in Lisbon now wants to continue working and to become a space of a safe space for migrants in the city of Lisbon. Now I'm going to give the floor to Cristina de la Milano. Yes, here I am again. Thank you Fran. Thank you very much. We and when I say we I intend ECOM, the organization I work for, which is partner of MIMEX, we organized a small pilot also in Italy and namely by the Regia di Caserta, which is the Bourbonic palace not far from Naples in the city of Caserta. Actually there we carried out a digital storytelling workshop in the months of November and December 2021 and the whole experience has been required by the director of the Regia di Caserta as part of the reviewing process of the UNESCO site management plan of the Royal Palace. Basically they wanted to underline to stress all the needs that they feel of engaging more the Regia visitors in a sort of co-creative process of envisaging, of sharing visions, ideas and feelings also about the Regia itself. So the participants created their own digital stories inspired by their own personal memories and experiences that they had lived within the Regia. You can go on with the next one. Actually in this case we had a quite different target group if compared with the other pilots. First of all they were over 60 subscribers meaning that they were all people who know very well the palace, the Royal Palace, who attend actually activities within the palace, visit the palace and the gardens of the palace quite often and have already a very strong relationship with the palace. So the target group was a bit different from the others. They were six over 60 subscribers so plus we had a member of the staff of the palace and one researcher who asked to participate. We used the same methodology, we used Memex although we had to use the shorter version that Evo mentioned before because we had less time than in the other pilot project experiences and we followed five phases, five face-to-face meetings during which participants wrote their stories and then of course there was the selection of the pictures, the selection of the videos, of the music and the editing phase of the stories. What happened in this case is that being over 60 people they had some troubles in mastering and managing the digital tool. So obviously the use of digital tools presents some critical aspects which have already been underlined by my colleagues. In this case I can confirm that there were some issues but at the same time they were very excited about learning something new in terms of mastering and managing the tools and the other main difference was really in relationship with the other projects that they cannot be considered a marginalized group. They were well let's say part of the caserta community and they were already let's say lovers and attendees of cultural activities. So it was a completely different target group and also a very different final result but very interesting though. Thank you. We will dive now into the technology of Mamex and first just to make a short premise but when you create this type of tools there is a lot you don't see actually working in the tool itself. The Mamex project of course one of the aims to create is the geolocalization of the stories and the stories in particular we have two geolocalized not only the stories but the user itself on the map and the cultural heritage assets. Also we need to connect all the potential say heritage that is related to the story and we might do this as well same automatically so we are constructing a knowledge graph which is geolocalized given the story itself and the last step which is the most challenging part we are creating software tools that can be used even in other projects for augmented these stories with augmented reality. We go briefly on the data we are using in a project in order to both let's say create stories also and also connect the stories. We use freely available information that comes mainly from wiki data, open stream map for the maps and artillery which is an augmentation of these maps with images like a google street view and of course database which are freely available in our case but in common for instance one of our main sources is european. Somehow we are heading a geolocalization of european assets in the whole world. Mamex can be seen as also having this type of role. We have of course the digital storytelling tool that as I said before is an app-based tool. Here you can see some screenshots but allows to access the Mamex app in two ways. One is the viewers so just just looking at the stories that are geolocalized in the area we are living in and one is an auto so an active role has created the digital stories. So the viewer will have limited functionalities in the sense it will be able to see the story, navigate through them and follow their connections with other digital heritage in the world. They also filter in the stories given their own preferences. Instead the author will be able to create such a story and publish them in the app itself, uploading video, audio images and other multimedia content. So here you see a screenshot of the navigation of the stories but you can see it in like in list mode where all the stories are listed or in a map mode where you can see all the stories of Mamex that we produced so far in a pilot that can be easily accessible access in the map itself. So we can see also our location but also the story location around and each story could be clickable and we show the text information together a front image and all their multimedia content. We have also this automatic connection system or semi-automatic that can connect the stories to other heritage distributed worldwide. These are to spread the interest of users but also to show that the stories created a larger context and connection throughout the world. And another option is also to create a set of journeys to the story so collection of stories that are linked together in order to create a path throughout the city or having for instance a story connected together to provide a path throughout the city or even in a localized space like museums like we are going to test very soon in some venues in our pilot places. And of course here you see other other let's say screenshots that are related to Paris and Barcelona stories that we are working on at the moment and increasing day by day. This tool you see is related to the pilot areas but we would like to increase this use of the help to other places like Raja de Cazarta as Christina has presented but we would like to fill all the European map with the stories. Then the final aspect I wanted to share it to you is how to create augmentation, augmented reality of stories in the physical world because this sense of connection for us would be more interesting as well on using the phone as a screen as a window but show the physical objects but their connection as well with the stories we tell. So we have a different way of creating augmented reality space out or indoor. One is physically to use functionalities like Google AirCore in order to place for instance an anchor on a physical space and connect this anchor to a story related to a digital place not related to a physical one or if you want like to manually locate a story related to an object we can select like the elephant you see in this screen take put an anchor a physical anchor and take a different snapshot of the very same object from three different point of view for instance and the systems automatically the MIMX system will localize in 3D space where the object it is and with an additional step we can link the 3D position of the object to any information we might have to a knowledge graph or even to the story related to these objects. The other way of functioning is fully automatic is related to running machine learning and artificial intelligence algorithms to fully detect say the object inside the environment. Of course the complexity is that the cultural heritage assets are not really detectable by many algorithms but we are working in order to find a solution to this problem at the moment and then we would like to scale this way of creating augmented reality spaces for multiple users at a large scale. I would like to show another demonstration which is not really in the context of the users in the piles of the MIMX project but is related to a heart gallery we went a couple of weeks ago and the people in the heart gallery used the MIMX app to create for instance multiple locations but also to put for instance prices over the assets the heritage assets the art assets they have inside the inside the gallery and this was done very easily with a few clicks from the phone. So we have two ways of functioning for augmented reality and they're very similar to the one related to the 2D app I showed to you where is one for creating the augmented reality space and we are trying to create this tool in order to support it to make it easy to create augmented reality tools by connecting physical objects since by the phone into a linked open data that are related to heritage assets that can be for educations digital storytelling or other activities and then the other one is related completely to the visitor. So once we have linked the digital assets to the physical world we would like to show on the phone as a visitor where are the sites that have the MIMX icon and are related to the system we have created and all the possible connection that we might have related to these assets and the rest of the city or the museum we are in. So we conclude quickly in order to to provide you time for for posing your question. So of course MIMX app and digital tools would like to have an impact as well on on this digital transformation we are experiencing of course one source of these efforts has also identified IEMO was the problem of COVID-19 but but push forward ourselves to have a higher digitization of our assets and also the usability of our assets and so our idea we should we should identify how as well MIMX can be useful on different application domains as as the one related to museums. Another analysis we are doing in collaboration with one of the partners of the project which is Amnesty Young is is how the MIMX can contribute to overcome digital divided of social and cultural organization and we identified three principal pillars which are the new relation with the audience and just then beneficiaries needs and valuing the such needs of the beneficiaries. So we would not go in the details here for the sake of time but our main idea is to to reach as well an exploitation phase of the project where we identified other case studies for MIMX in order to understand how the digital tool can be useful in other contexts. So to conclude our next steps for the project that is ending November 22 is to to obtain a new version of the app around June but is able to to show the augmented reality functionalities along with the today map functionalities you have seen in the previous slides and they're going to be tested through July, September with the with the partners in order to co-design again these tools. Then we are going to have to have some events related to the pilot area where we have a restitution events where in Paris where we do a walking tour together with with stakeholders and of course the people the migrants that were working together with us in order to to show what what we did and how the stories are creating the map of the people living there and then we're going to have a fun exhibition on the three pilots in museums and selected the venues in September through September on October in Lisbon of Paris and Barcelona for which we are of course invited to participate and in the final event with the policy around table in Barcelona November 2022. And as I mentioned we would like to explore new ways to do pilots as we did in in Regia di Cazarta with the strong support of ECOM with the interest stakeholders. I conclude here the presentation thanks for my colleagues for presenting their parts and we can open the floor for questions. Thank you very much. Yeah thank you everyone first of all for the presentation and yeah we invite everyone to to be back on stage and now I'm back on stage as well. Sorry for that. Yeah thank you very much for this very detailed presentation of my mix all question I had had been answered but we had some during the presentation and we also have already people who would like to join the project in the pilot cities you have mentioned so that's great you can connect and collaborate. So I start with the questions I've got that if you have more please let me know but also we will send that's what Corinne said also we will send over the presentation to all the participants and you have the contact there in the chat so if there are further questions please get in touch with the representatives. So one question was with several questions within did the app give the possibility to the users to create their own digital contents? Were they trained for this purpose and how? How was the part of the impact of the project? Did you evaluate in some way who were interested to know about the stories that were created and then more questions about GDPR and IAA but maybe we can start with that. I can start with the first one. Okay the digital content we are creating are the stories and so we are we are allowing the user to input the text that is related to the story audio related to vocals if they would like to leave a vocal transcript of the story or video and so on. We are not creating directly the digital assets related to cultural heritage or all the items that we think they are already available or at disposal to the museum or that can be easily linked by by our system. In fact we are putting available as well some tools for feeding to the knowledge graph the information of these digital assets. So our focus and the research focus of the project is directly related to create the story as a digital content but not other content. There was one you wanted to add something? There was one question directed to Christina. Maybe we should yeah I think we should add that actual participants were trained in the use of the methodology and in the use of the app obviously and yes I have seen the question addressed to me which was about the fact that in Cazerta we had to have the help let's say of a technician but this was due to time constraints while the director of the Ereja wanted to have the stories ready by a certain date and obviously working with not very tech savvy people we would have needed a lot of time to work directly with them with the app because the app is quite user-friendly and it allows as Alessia said to create stories but of course people need to be trained and the time with elderly people they've been too long. So this reason we had to have the help of a specialized technician in that specific case. Yeah you answered already two of the questions Christina thank you. One other question was and that's also always very interesting because Corinna I think you mentioned the project is over in November so what are the future plans? The plans for implementing the project yeah in the cultural and social sector are there plans to expand the groups or the partners? Do you have ideas? And of course we all know it's always connected to money and funding. So for the project sustainability I guess that's the question related. At the end of the project we will create some we can call it packages kind of related to the software infrastructure and the infrastructure cloud infrastructure you need to run memex on your own somehow. Of course it's correct that to run this app this app has to be kind of sustained by cloud infrastructure and other costs but what we would like is to create a sort of toolbox for which all the results of memex can be taken and reutilized for other pilot activities. So we are studying ways in order to of course don't close everything when the project ends but have new ways of reusing the results on memex. Of course reusing is not for free and we will also make clear pretty soon and this is our intention to to say how much would the cost in terms of of course infrastructure but also of investment in time and you know just development engagement of course these are something that you had to take in account as well if you would like to to change the target of the project itself on other application scenario. Of course memex was focused on migrants and their idea is to now instantiate some pilots for which we can see the other type of application of the project. So maybe one last question two minutes left. It's a very specific one regarding the mix of tangible and intangible data. If I understood well the tangible refer to the geolocated CH items, museum and outdoor CH remains and the intangible refers to the contribution of the participants through their memories and digital stories. Correct. It's in the chat. Yes, it's pretty much correct because we are trying to stories are it's something that is very hard to keep trace about and one of the attempt of memex is to make them actually visible and this was all the idea of even augmented them in reality because you can overlay them on your physical space and this may make of course the all the process more tangible and physically visible itself. But by itself is to create this new entity of the story itself that can be then connected with the rest of the cultural heritage assets we have as well. So our attempt is also to re-link stories and experiences of people which are intangible to something that is pretty much tangible and distributed on our territory. I don't know if someone else would like to add something. Now maybe just a very quick comment about the fact that sometimes stories themselves were let's say triggered by tangible heritage obviously because activities were based in physical spaces so obviously the starting point was tangible heritage but quite often they also related to intangible heritage so there was a very interesting mixture of the two elements in quite many of the stories so the boundaries are quite blurred sometimes although the starting point was always a tangible place a tangible heritage location. Yeah exactly and it allows us perhaps to bridge different realities the the intangibility can be the connected tissue between separate or discrete tangible heritage. Yeah and just just wanted to have that in Paris it was found the pilot is located in a specific district specific area with no I mean buildings as academic cultural heritage you know traditional cultural heritage there is nothing about so it was very interesting I mean to to to to to work with the inhabitants to to understand what is cultural heritage tangible and intangible in this area and it's a lot related to the memories to the evolution of the area and their experience and in these specific pilots we also used some archives from digital cultural heritage from archives from museums etc in order to nourish the the discussion between them so it's also interesting to see how inhabitants or communities defined what is important for them as heritage. Great thank you very much for this very fruitful hour we had together we get a lot of thank yous and congratulations and bravos from the participants so you have to contact please get in touch with each other to have more cooperation collaboration and yeah thank you from NemoSide.