 Welcome to another episode of China, Hawaii and You. I am your ever faithful host Andrew Zimmerman and today we're gonna be talking about Shen Yun to some really, really big theatrical productions coming to China. With me, I'm really excited to bring in our guest who is just Professor Jiang. Professor Jiang, do you wanna give us a little bit of a self-introduction of yourself? Okay, Andrew, good to be with you. Hong Jiang is my name and I teach in the geography and environment department. That's a mouthful at UH Manoa. And my work is on China, cultural geography and some work on tea and culture in Taiwan as well. Yeah, and there's definitely a lot of need to do academic research in Asian geography right now. I understand that you're also a member of the, I might say this wrong, so forgive me if I do. The American Association of Asian Geographers. Is that the name of it? Yeah, American Association of Geographers. Oh, just a member of the Association of Geographers. Okay, okay, okay. And yeah, so we would, that's got a definitely plenty of content that we could cover on its own, but that's not why we're here today. We're here to talk about a really, really fascinating theatrical production of Shen Yun. So for those of you who haven't seen it, I don't know, I don't, I guess maybe you live under a rock somewhere because they have flyers everywhere going on down. And every time I turn on YouTube, I see an ad it feels like. But for those of you who haven't seen it, I'm really encouraging you right now, go on YouTube and type in Shen Yun, S H E N Y U N. And some of the, some of the costumes they do are just incredible. The feats of acrobatics are like just on par with Cirque du Soleil. Some of the drama that goes into it, you're just, you can't believe how much you care about these characters after only a minute or two sometimes. But going beyond that, that I think it's a really, really cool show. I wanted to sort of ask you, what fundamentally is Shen Yun beyond the theatrical production? Okay, I should probably clarify a little bit of my connection with Shen Yun. Of course I'm not a dancer. And so I've been helping to support the Shen Yun show since 2008, when it first came to Hawaii to the Blaisdale. And of course the last two years we didn't have any shows at all. It just so happy that they are coming back in March and people are asking me, is that real? That Shen Yun is coming back and Shen Yun is coming back in March. So I want to show you the flyer to confirm it's coming back in March, March 26, 27 to the Blaisdale. So because my work is on Chinese culture, cultural geography, and I remember seeing the show first time in 2007 in New York, I said, this is the show that we have to have in Honolulu. We have a lot of Asian cultural background over here and presence over here. And people would really love the show. So the show, of course, it's a large, you would say kind of theatrical act. But it's really about trying to accentuate the essence of Chinese culture through stories and legends. And they're just common stories from the Chinese culture. And it's a show that's not only about dancing but it has a live orchestra that has this animated background that's just so amazing and so unreal. It's so real that it felt like it's so unreal. It's just amazing feat that they were able to put together. And the Shen Yun show is not produced in China. It's produced by overseas Chinese artists. Shen Yun is based in New York. Mm-hmm. So all of the, it sounds like all of the mini stories, right? Because when I went, at least, they didn't have a one continuous story that was told throughout the performance. It was broken up into maybe about, I'd say, a dozen mini stories, each that had their own unique characters. So when you have this production with maybe these 10 shows and their new shows every year, right? So every year it's like a totally fresh thing. All of these mini stories, they come from real Chinese legend. They're not made up every year. Yes, so they take real stories from the Chinese history and culture. And in front of me, I have this brochure from a program book from 2019. That's when Shen Yun first came. And they had these different stories. One of the stories would be like, a lot of people heard about the journey to the West. The Monkey King story, it's a long story. There's so many mini stories. And the Shen Yun show would take one story each time, different stories, and would play that in maybe five to seven minutes. And it gives you this complete story through dances. So you don't need to, there's no language during the show that you just basically dance. Everybody knows the language of the dance and you can all understand. And also they're just so amazing because the journey to the West, the stories are often about these, I would say fairy tale kind of stories. The Monkey King would go up to the heavens and go down to the ocean. And Shen Yun would use a backdrop and use the music to actually present all that, which is just amazing to see. So we have a, well, actually we'll address the audience question in one minute, but I really, really appreciate the audience questions coming in. And please send us as many of them as you can, because we love engaging with the audience. But there's one thing that I wanted to talk about right before we get to that. And that's kind of the comedy and the sort of establishment of the Chinese folklore. One thing that I've noticed in Chinese comedy, a Chinese comedy form known as Xiang Xiang, which is a really popular form of Chinese comedy where you have like two guys and it's very kind of akin to the American who's on first thing. I forgot who did that, but it's very similar to who's on first, where they'll use a lot of puns and they'll kind of like talk over each other. But the thing that makes Chinese comedy unique in my experience is that you don't have necessarily new stuff every time that people are going on. You very often, the comedy is based on already existing folklore and the appeal that people have to going to these shows for years and years and years is they wonder to themselves like, I wonder how this guy or how this organization is gonna tell that story. I wonder how they're gonna perform this joke, right? Is that kind of something that's also going on within Xiang Xiang? Well, Xiang Xiang is being performed in so many different countries in the world. So the art form that they chose to represent the Chinese cultural stories is dance. And through dance, it's a universal language. People with different cultures and different ages can all understand. So therefore the Xiang Xiang does not have that kind of a vocal based, language-based humor that you mentioned, but they do have humor. And more and more of it, when I see the Xiang Xiang show that came over the years, they have a lot of humor going on. It's just hilarious sometimes. They have these stories of monks in a temple and these bad guys, these were also based on historical stories of different dynasties. These enemies came and how the monks were able to deal with these people through a lot of martial arts and dance type of movements. And you really laugh, there's a lot of humor in those stories, yeah. No, I remember being shocked at how funny it was. I don't remember ever laughing so much in the theatrical production. Like I've seen Nutcracker, I've seen opera shows, but I just never laughed that much and especially when they're not actually talking. I really love how you kind of describe dance as its own language, because I imagine that it might be the case that even many of the dancers don't even speak English. They're mostly like maybe second generation, third generation Chinese with Chinese heritage. Some of them may not speak Chinese, but one thing about the Chinese dance is this. It's very, very expressive. It's different from the Western ballet. That Western ballet has so much techniques, but the Chinese has so much skill and so expressive. And that expressiveness really produced these different effects of humor and drama and excitement and surprise. And all of those will be in the stories that you'll see. So you see all kinds of stories and some people would have tears. I'm sure you'll remember some of the moving stories brought you to tears and brought you to laughter. And yeah, in a show like Shengyu, you can get all of those experiences. Yeah, so it's crazy. We're actually getting a surprising number of audience questions for the show, I think. And we really, really like that, but I think for the flow of the show, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get through as many questions that I had and then I'll save about maybe the last 10 minutes, but we will get every question that's asked unless it's like inappropriate or something like that. So the next thing that I wanted to bring up with you is, and maybe this is not something that you're kind of having your nose to the ground on, but how is Shengyu in considering COVID-19? Because I imagine it must be quite concerning to, like Omicron is on fortunately on a down swing, but I imagine for a Blaisdale production, it must be really concerning to think like, oh gosh, how are we gonna do this without making a super-spreader event? Yeah, so Shengyu was not performing. It didn't come here in the last two years because of COVID. And this year Blaisdale allowed theater shows to come back. And this is the first time, I think they started actually late last year. And right now their requirements will be proof of vaccination or test negative in 48 hours. And that's actually a very common in all theaters in the US if they require anything, it'll be requiring that. So it's doable. And of course you wear a mask during the show and the show would have an intermission that allow people to come out and stretch out. So wear a mask if you don't talk within the theater, which is the air conditioned. It's actually pretty comfortable. Yeah, I think I'm happy about that because let me tell you nobody wants people talking in the theater anyway, especially when you're seeing a really high quality production. So I don't think that's gonna be a too big of an issue, but I'm glad that they're making considerations and following the Blaisdale guidelines. The next thing that I wanted to talk to you about, and this is one of the things that I've been thinking about recently. And I think I've talked to you about this a little bit on the phone, but people have been in large part locked in their houses for work for years now, right? Like obviously we still get out to do what we can. People are variously willing to take risks based on how concerned they are about COVID. But one of the things that I think really bugged me about what are the negative effects of COVID lockdowns, right? Is it kind of turned a lot of our lives into like really screen heavy. So pre-COVID, right? I think Estin that suggested that human being spend like something like eight or nine hours a day looking at a screen of some kind, whether or not that's a cell phone or a TV or a laptop, you can add all these together. And it really makes up a shocking percent of your day. And that's pretty much no matter what you do, right? So if you're a lawyer, then you're going to be spending eight or nine hours a day reading legal documents on your computer. If you're a doctor or a medical student, then maybe you have to spend a lot of time reading up on charts, reading up on medical procedures, reading up on, but regardless, it's almost always going to come through a computer, maybe less than a lawyer, but still a lot. Engineers, oh my gosh, you don't want to think about how much engineers got to stay on a computer all day. And so one of the things that I've kind of been wondering about, right, is what kinds of ways can we break this, right? How can we sort of break this dynamic of people being on a screen all the time? And one of the things that I've come to think about, Shenya, and one of the reasons that I'm really excited about it is because I think that getting people off of a screen and seeing something genuinely happen before their eyes is going to be incredible. And obviously real life will never be as exciting as like Star Wars or some imagined fantasy, but the thing about Shen Yun that really blew my mind is it feels like Hollywood level quality of visual effects, but it's happening right in front of you. You know what I'm saying? What do you think about live productions in that way? Definitely, I think it's interesting after this lockdown, we really are thirsty of something that we can be experiencing. And when I talk to people about Shen Yun coming, they say, oh my God, is it real? And you can hear the excitement and people keep saying Shen Yun is a feast to the eye and feast to the heart. And it's even more so now because you are experiencing something that's really colorful that the screen can never ever represent of the experience of being in a live show. Not only the colors, the dance, the dancers, you can see their expressions, just the energy coming from the stage is something that nothing can replace, no screen can replace. And that's where I think it's just a wonderful opportunity. I'm just so happy that Shen Yun is coming here. And it is a feast to the eye, a feast to the heart. Yeah, yeah, nothing is going to make you look like. I think actually I would go so far as to say like, once you see something like Shen Yun, Netflix is boring. Like, you just- Oh, exactly, completely. I mean, I keep saying, describing to people, people see the commercials a 30-second commercial, 50-second commercial. They say, oh, that's so beautiful. I've seen it. I say, you know, after you see the live show, you know it's a thousand times better. If you just can't describe it, you just have to be there. And the colors, the costumes, the stories that's so absorbing, and you're just being part of something so big. And everybody's commenting on, I'm sure you've seen the show, you remember the colors. They're so vibrant and so colorful. And it's a color that you just don't see on the screen or anywhere. You just have to see the live show. Not only, and plus you have all these stories from different periods and different locations of Chinese culture. It's almost like a magical journey through Chinese culture. And I should mention that Shen Yun is based in the US and it doesn't go to China for various reasons. Yeah, so we'll actually, we'll go into that in just a little bit, but there's one last question that I wanted to ask you about and then we'll move into the audience questions because some of the audience questions are actually talking about political implications. So we will go into that. But the very last thing that I had written down that I wanted to ask was kind of on the history of Chinese people and the way that they have imagined theater and the way that they experienced theaters through their traditions. So we talked a little bit about Chinese cross talk, but if I was to see Shen Yun, right? Is there some, and then I went to China, is you're not gonna find Shen Yun there, but are you gonna find like some kind of show that feels like Shen Yun? In other words, like are you gonna find some kind of show that would operate in China that like still has the dancing and the cultural stories and all of those things? That's a very good question. I would say you can find a show like that inside China, like Shen Yun inside China, but you can find components of it. Shen Yun is dance wise, you will find some connections with traditional Chinese forms like a core dance. It's the core dance and also the folk dancing and martial arts. You can see components of a classical Chinese dance in all those components. And of course, you can also see some of the stories being played out. But the music part is something that you don't see anywhere in the world. It's full of orchestra music and it's also combining Eastern and Chinese and Western musical instruments in a whole kind of a complete orchestra. And that's actually Shen Yun's only invention that you don't see it. And to see the backdrop connected that set the scene and set the scenery for the whole entire story and the music and live music and the dance all together in this kind of representation you don't see anywhere in the world. Not in such a way either. In researching the show, I heard somewhere and I have no idea if this is true, that for the music that they hire out because they hire all kinds of musicians, right? I heard that all of the performers whether they're dancers, whether they're playing, like even the Westerners in the orchestra, they all have to in some sense be a part of Falun Dafa. Is that true? I can't answer that question because I'm not part of that. All I know is this, the dancers are what you see, right? So they really focus on traditional Chinese ways and life before the modern impact before the impact influenced from communism. So they want to have a traditional presentation of the stories and their belief in my understanding is that to present the story in the traditional way you live the traditional way. So meditation is part of the dancer's daily routine and that's why they can so focus when they perform. That's part of the meditation from Falun Dafa was supporting them in their dance training. That's what I understand. I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know much about the performers but think about Chinese culture. If Falun Dafa, another name is Falun Gong and if the beliefs of Falun Gong is about being truthful, being compassionate, being tolerant, it's about the Chinese traditional cultural values. I can understand why they would highlight that because again, to present the stories, you need to live that. That actually wonderfully transitions me into the audience questions here. So for my part, because this is my platform, I consider this a free speech platform. So say whatever you like and you don't necessarily, you don't have to hold back on my account but you don't have to say anything that you don't want to talk about if that's not okay. But one of the questions is what are the political implications of the Shen Yun show? I know it doesn't play in China but what about other parts of the world? It plays all other parts of the world but not in China and not in China controlled Hong Kong and it plays in Taiwan, multiple shows, many other parts of the world. In Hong Kong, there was once a show plan that tickets sold and the Chinese government pulled the plug and partly because, you know, the implication of Falun Gong being suppressed in China and also the show is showing, oftentimes would show a story of the Chinese Communist government's suppression of a traditional culture and of course that the Chinese government didn't like to see that. And the show also wanted to highlight the Chinese culture before the influence of communism and that's another thing that perhaps you understand that the Chinese government didn't like to have Chinese people see inside China but Chinese people all over the world can see it. Yeah. Yeah, no, even when I went the show, the show was explicitly, I don't know if I would use the, it was definitely anti-party or the anti-government. I remember less so about talking about communism like as opposed to capitalism, for example but it was certainly anti-party but that kind of leads me into one more question that I wanted to ask kind of on that point and then we'll get to our one last audience question and we'll wrap it up. So we got two questions left. And so my question that I would kind of pin on that, right is, you know, when I was in China, one of the memories I have is I'd walk by a church every day and like, you know, it usually was fairly bustling. I always wanted to go but unfortunately I worked Sundays, right? You know, I knew people that were Muslim were practicing like Chinese Muslims, like living outside of Xinjiang. And so what I wanted to ask is, while the Chinese government, right, no one could say that it's particularly friendly to religion, right? That's of course true. It seems to me that Falun Gong seems to have particularly drawn ire from it. So what I would want to know is how is it possible that a domestic Chinese, I don't know if you would call it a religion but we'll use that word in lieu of something else. How is it that it is drawn seemingly significantly more ire than these foreign Western religions would, especially when it used to be quite popular? It's a good question. And one thing, let's just come back about the connection between Falun Gong and the Shengyin show, that the Shengyin show does show a certain act of the suppression of Chinese culture by the Communist Party. But I wouldn't say it's anti anything because that's not what Shengyin is trying to present. It's not about political messages. It's really about the cultural message. And if you talk about Chinese culture before communism, that itself can be seen as a very political. And inside China, how come the Falun Gong drew so much attention? It's really about the sheer number, I believe, because in 1999 when Falun Gong started, when the government in China started to persecute Falun Gong, there were about 70 to 100 million people practicing Falun Gong including party members. You can kind of imagine that the party establishment saw this in a negative way because it could potentially overpower the influence of the party. That's one thing. The other thing is it's a group that's really kind of grassroots and it's so many places you can find them and it's not outside, not inside of any particular organization that the government can control. So those were some of the elements that led to this really kind of a negative treatment of Falun Gong by the government in China. Okay, that's interesting. So we have one last audience question that I'll let you answer and then one question that I'll answer because I happen to see the show and I know the answer to it. So the audience question for you that's left because we have about two or three minutes left is what about Taiwan does the show play in Taiwan? And as you just said, yes, it does. Do you know anything in particular going on about the operations there? Not about the operation, but the show goes to Taiwan in all different major cities there every year. That's all I know. Very, very cool. And then so the very last question is in the Shenyun show, I saw a few years ago they had a very special way of disappearing into the background. The players would jump behind the wall at the back of the stage to then fly off into the background. It was amazing. How did they do that? I happen to know the answers to this question because I was sitting at the front. And so what I saw was that they would sort of jump off the stage, right? But they would time their jump so well that the screen in the background was actually like an electronic version of them, but it was like mere photorealistic, right? And so they would jump off the background and then you'd see like somebody flying over a rainbow or something, but actually it was just the electronic screen person flying over the rainbow. And so they implemented the electric screen background with the stage really, really well. I think that was probably my favorite part, actually. That's like a magical, that's like taking people to this magical realm of a different place, a different time. And it's just amazing. Yeah. It's all happening apparently. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm sure there's a whole lot more we could talk about Shenyun. And then I know the, we could spend hours easily discussing like it's political implications and how they do certain things in the show. But unfortunately we are running out of time. So I wanted to say thank you very, very much to Dr. Jiang for joining us today. And I wanna thank everybody for tuning in, listening and giving out some questions. We're very, very excited to talk to you guys next, not next week, but two weeks from now on another episode of China, Hawaii and New. Thank you very much, Dr. Jiang. Thank you very much. I'm glad to be here.