 Some of our technological progress has been very empowering, right? I mean, we don't to idealize the living in a village life without electricity, without heat, without some of the comforts that we've come to appreciate in life, refrigeration or transportation or the ability to communicate, right? And so people from the progress side will be like, well, what are you talking about? Do you want to go back to living in mud huts so on and so forth, right? And that we have been able to address certain diseases that have been a scourge in humanity and we've learned how to be able to address them. Where do we find the line of where progress is something that we can truly embrace that isn't leading us towards that endpoint, which is something that we don't want? What is a narrative of progress that truly is rooted in our human values and how do we organize around that, right? Because we need to organize around something. Otherwise we're gonna be in these two camps all the time. Okay. So just to start where you began in a time of the breakdown of sense and meaning, totalizing theories such as conspiracy narratives have a great appeal because they replace the certainty that the narrative of progress once gave us the narrative of a scent with a new certainty and it explains everything and you don't have to be unsure of what the world is and who you are anymore. However, that's not actually really a step into the unknown. And I think that like the question that you raised, what about good progress? And certainly we don't wanna go back to living in mud huts. Again, as with glyphosate or as with vaccines, you can't take these things, you can't isolate them as variables. So okay, if we can't hold everything else constant, then I would rather live in my nice house here in rural Rhode Island than I would in a mud hut without electricity and running water in rural Rhode Island in this society as we know it. But I don't know, have you ever lived in a mud hut in places where everybody lives in a mud hut where there is no running water but everybody goes to the village well and that's where social life happens. I was on our online community, somebody told a story actually she was working in development and they went into some village in Africa and they're like, guess what everybody we're gonna make your lives better because we're gonna bring running water to every house. And the villagers said, no, we don't want that because what holds our village together is everybody goes to the village well. Okay, in my neighborhood here, I don't have a village well. And when the hurricane hit a couple of weeks ago there was no running water, it was a pain in the ass. Couldn't wash dishes, couldn't flush the toilet, because our well is, we have our own well, it's electric. Okay, so hold all that constant and yeah, I want running water. Yeah, I want electricity. Yeah, I want, you know, I don't wanna live in a mud hut but that's to narrow a question. Really the question that the current crisis is opening up is how do we want to live? What do we want to true ourselves to? Exactly, exactly. So like if you wanna find the happiest people in the world I bet that they live in mud huts. Read about the hodza, you know, read about the caro. I was, Stella was telling me about the greeting way people greet each other in the Andes where coca is a sacred plant and you run into somebody you haven't seen for a while and you don't just say hello and shake hands. You do a whole ceremony where you share coca leaf, you chew it together like saying hello takes half an hour. Right, but that happiness is because of the way that they are embedded in relationship between themselves, between the land and between each other. Right, so then the question is, and so you ended your question to me with how do we, how do we? For me it's a question of any choice, any change that I'm contemplating is it a step toward the restoration of relationship to other humans, to the world through my senses or is it a step away from that? Which timeline is it on? Is it on the timeline of separation and control or is it on the timeline of reunion?