 President Bahari approves $8.5 million for evacuation of Nigerians from Ukraine. And the Senate approves financial autonomy for local governments in the country. This is Plus Politics. I'm Mary Anacron. President Mohammed Bahari has approved $8.5 million for the evacuation of Nigerians from Ukraine. About 5,000 Nigerian students have been affected by the ongoing war in Eastern European countries. The Nigerian government had expressed desires to evacuate its citizens in Ukraine. Well, joining us to discuss this is Public Affairs Analyst Sonny Ubi-Madukah and former Special Advisor to the River State Govna Upanabo, Inc. Tariah. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you, Mary Anacron. Great. Good evening, Nigeria. The biggest question on everybody's mind is why did it have to take so long for the Nigerian government to decide on evacuation of some Nigerians? I'm going to start with Ubi-Madukah. I mean, you've worked in government, so you'd try to help us understand why government had to drag its fit on this matter. Well, a lot of course. It doesn't come as a surprise because we have a government that is listless when it comes to the work of Nigerians, you know. I mean, I have this material, for example, to give to both of them my assumption. A government that claims half of the lives of Nigerians, even within the country. So, as countries like Ghana, back with them, I think the last question, even yesterday, and we are talking of back with Nigerians from Ukraine today, and the President is just approving it. I will tell you the vast list of human lives, especially in this country. We have a government that is all sensitive to the flight of Nigerians, and that is just the reason. Otherwise, one cannot part of why. Look at when Russia-Ukrainian War started. It's about a week now, and this is when the President is approving the money for the evacuation. And the Minister for Estonal Affairs hardly says that the evacuation was commenced today. Notwithstanding the danger that these Nigerian citizens and students are facing abroad, notwithstanding their flight. So, everything is just treated with levity, especially what it has to do with Nigerian lives by this very government. It doesn't come as a surprise to a lot of us. It doesn't come as a surprise to a lot of us. We don't act. We will act. And this is one government that is known for its bilateria. In every state, even look at the electoral act. In every state, you know, the President has said he cannot wait for 2023 to exit office. So he is actually hired physically, intellectually, mentally. The man is just hired. And that is affecting governments in the country. He said it. You know what the global says? That he just cannot wait for 2023. So, the man is hired mentally, physically, psychologically, everything. He is hired. And so, governance means nothing to him anymore. Interesting. Let me come to you, Dr. Madhika. It's interesting that Upanabur seems to be blaming the government's feet dragging on Mr. President. But then Mr. President is just one person. Yes, he is the commander-in-chief, but then we do have legislators. These are people who supposedly are representing the interests of the average Nigerian. And he took them this long to also come up with ideas on how to push Mr. President to get to give a nod for the evacuation in the first instance. So, can we solely place this blame at the feet of Mr. President only? Yeah, I think Tara had just said it. The entirety of whatever we are going through is right on the President's table. The President is our father. So, as the father of a nation, every of your citizens matters. And unfortunately, this is only the country that the President doesn't care. Because now he has jetted out to UK for two weeks, whatever you call it, medical checkup. A time that your children are dying, a time your children are suffering. As a father, you're supposed to have empathy. This is a time that instead of you traveling, why don't you get these physicians back to this country? And I was looking at the President when he was going. There was nothing that showed that this father is going to lose some of his children abroad. You see, it's unfortunate. Look at it this way. We are proving 8.5 million right now. This money wouldn't have been up to this if we had been proactive. But just like Tara said, we're always reacting to issues. This war didn't start today. There was notice. Many countries were doing something. America evacuated. A lot of countries evacuated. What happened to a country called Nigeria? In fact, it was even appalling that the Minister of the Islamic State said that it is not the government's priority or responsibility to evacuate. That to me is insensitive. At the time your children are trapped and you are bringing in issues that shouldn't, what is the average value? What is the value of an average Nigerian to this government? So if you look at it, I'm still wondering, I'm still waiting because let me tell you. Believe it, this government is like saying, like I said before, it's like saying that tomorrow we are going to the moon. You know, this government has always come on line three. They said about the problem with no one is happening today. I think we're having connection issues there with you, Dr. Madoka. We'll try again to see if we can connect with you. But back to you, Apunabot, there are claims that there are some Nigerians who didn't want to go anywhere. They didn't want to come back to Nigeria. And there are still people who still do not want to be evacuated to Nigeria. Some are saying, look, you know what? Send us to Russia. In fact, we hear that about 150 of them are looking to be evacuated into Russia instead of coming back to Nigeria. So could it also be that people would rather go to Poland or neighboring countries other than Nigeria, maybe because of reasons personally, I mean best known to them? And again, why would people not want to come home to Nigeria? Because most of these people are students. It has to do with the truth. It has to do with the best known to them. It has to do with the best known to Nigeria from the world. What could be those reasons? There is defundancy. There is diffidence in the system. You know, a lot of people have lost, not just because they don't like Nigeria. It's because it's the reality. There is so much hunger. The country has to speak right now is rather less. Now you can imagine other countries have been evacuated. They've made something effort to evacuate the citizens. What does that mean to Nigeria? The ambassador in Ukraine told them that they must have to defend themselves. How ridiculous and insensitive can a man be? It was after the criticism that they had to reject that criticism. So in such a country where there is no hope, if you come back to this, a lot of them don't have hope. If we expand this system, they won't have traveled abroad to Ukraine. What they're going to do in Ukraine? Not even in America, not even in Britain. Not even in Canada, but in Ukraine. Most of them have left this country out of constraint. So what are they coming back here to do? They have to be in terms of leadership style, leadership parameters. It is better than Nigeria. If they are not segregated again, I tell you they'll have a better life in Russia. Because here, what I come back to, no life. Most of them can't even pay their fees. They can't even see it. It's frustrating living in this country. Very frustrating living in this country. Are you saying that Nigerians would rather die in a war-torn country or a country that is about to face war than come home to a peaceful country where there's no war? Relatively peaceful. Relatively peaceful. Russia is not war-torn. I was making reference to Ukraine, not necessarily Russia. Ukraine is war-torn, but not Russia. Ukraine is war-torn, but not Russia. And because there are so many places in Russia, I don't think Russia has this method. If you think of Russia, they are just trying to defend their country. I don't think they are being brave in Russia. I don't think so. So they are outing. They are also outing for polarity. They are outing for Hungary, for Romania, and so on. Yes, they are also leaving Ukraine. But the truth is, those who are even resistant, those who say they want to wait and observe what's going on, I say so because they don't get lost confidence in Nigeria. Most of them don't want to come back. And it is simple, like I said, poverty level, apart from the poverty level, there's condensate. You know, when there is hope, there's life. So a lot of them know what they come back here to do. And if they leave, they could survive it. They don't want to come back to Nigeria, and most of them, because if they come back, they will not be able to go back. So they don't want to find themselves in that situation. So let us remain here. Because we strongly believe that again, one might not test that, especially with the intervention of foreign countries, the one might not. So let us remain here. Rather than go back to our childhood, by going back to Nigeria, I will refuse anything to this country anymore, or any other country. You don't know how a lot of them will left the country. You know, difficult ways. So they want to remain there. They don't want to come back here. Okay. Let me go back to Dr. Madukah. I hope that we have Dr. Madukah back. Let's cast our minds back to some of the things that have happened over the years in terms of Nigerians in other countries. We've seen cases of Nigerians being killed in other countries. I mean, we had the issues of xenophobia in South Africa. We saw that young lady that was killed in a prison in, I can't remember the country now. We've seen several cases. We've seen a Nigerian official, a director in our public service, who died in a hotel room in South Africa. And till today, we're yet to uncover how that woman died in that hotel room, even though the pointers showed that she was killed, not like she went to sleep and then she didn't wake up. We've seen several cases where Nigerians could have been saved, but half the time, we always show up last minute or as an afterthought. And many people are also saying that this situation in Ukraine was an afterthought. I mean, yesterday, if I'm not mistaken, former member of the National Assembly, Ben Moriburz, had said, we have so many millionaires in this country and billionaires, why can't they send aircrafts to those countries to evacuate these Nigerians? I mean, and I'm guessing that these Nigerians would want to go to any other country, they're choosing. I mean, Ukraine is bordered by a lot of these countries. But I want to ask, how did we get to a point, because both of you seem to be in agreement that this particular government is not necessarily placing value on Nigerian lives, but can we say that, can we say any different about other governments that we've had, I mean, as opposed to this government of President Mohammed al-Buhari, or are we just giving a dog a bad name? Well, if you start from 1970s, you discover that Nigeria is, that was when we... Dr. Kamadika. Okay. I think that we're having issues with your connection. Giant Obama. I think we're having... Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Okay, I can hear you now. Can you hear me now? Okay. It's not working. Apologies, we have to go back to open up, open up. I think I heard you trying to come in there, but go ahead. Oh, so sorry. Can you hear me? Okay, let me change my... Let me change my... All right. Open up. Just go ahead. Maria, what was the question? If we are just trying to identify this government or it's a Nigerian system. Yes. It's a Nigerian pattern. Is that what you're trying to say? Yes. Well, when... I will not say Nigeria, the Nigerian government has always been so effective in the discharge of its duties, but if you have to make a comparison, I think this is the worst. And in the opening statement, or in the opening statement of the Second World War, when you said, why do we have to blame the president when you have the National Assembly? The president is the one that will give to go ahead. The National Assembly cannot. It is always in the back of the National Assembly. If there's two cities up of the president to order, because what it has to do with the release of funds for the couple. But what it has to do with humanitarian... If it's based on humanitarian grounds, there was this epic that is in the past, in South Africa. That is also... I've also been engaged to do... to carry out the same function that is on humanitarian grounds. And you talked of Ben Bruce saying, we have billionaires. What about Ben Bruce? What role did he play? Is he a billionaire? Do you categorize him as a billionaire? Is he a billionaire? That is it. That is it. No, no, no. Whether he is a billionaire or not, the question is, what role did he play other than criticizing the billionaires? Exactly. Can you not talk to a billionaire to play a role? What role did he play? How does he not contribute? Because these players are going to buy fuel. So what was his contribution? Not just to sit down to being a pie. These people are doing humanitarian jobs. They are not just... I don't know what else he did in South Africa. They have to be commanded. So it is not just to sit down and castigate a billionaire. What is the best thing from becoming a billionaire? Okay. What role did he play? Okay. What role did he play? What is his contribution? Can you hear me now? I think the doctor is back. Let's listen to what the doctor has to say. Go ahead. Yes. I started in 1970 and 1980s. Nigeria benefited from what you called the giant of Africa. You mentioned South Africa. You mentioned other countries. Recently, last year, or two years ago, Ghana demolished our embassy. Ghana hoarded our people, our children, I don't think that that happened in Ghana. It happened in one of the Francophone countries where we were... It's in Ghana. It's in Ghana. Well, I think in the DRC, one of those Francophone countries, our embassy was also sacked. Yes. But go ahead. It's in Ghana. It happened in Ghana, too. So what I'm saying is that the leadership today has messed up Nigeria. We want nothing again before the Committee of Nations. And that is why the Nigerians are being treated the way they are treated, even in that place. You can't treat a country that... I didn't hear South Africa complaining. If you watch, most of the complain are Nigeria, Kemerun, and probably Niger, Republic, or whatever. Your country is dependent, or the value of your country is dependent on the leadership. Today, as Jostara said, no Nigeria is worth dying to this country because there's nothing that you can say, this is what government is doing. They did the pyramid rise in Abuja. Where are the rise in human homes, in houses? So these are the issues. We have government that doesn't care much about the value of an average Nigerian. And that is why these young boys are living. They're not living because they love it. As I can tell you, as of the 1970s and 80s, most Germans, most Eukaryans, most Americans, they were coming to Nigeria to study. And we have the best of academics. What happened? Because we have leaders who are selfish, self-centered, greedy. And unfortunately, Africa is just there as a continent, not adding value to the world, economy or whatever. To be Africa is a liability because they've not found their potential in their safe work. If you're already complete, it's still believing Africans. So until we come to the position whereby we can sit down and say, African, what do you do? And how do we do that? Maybe that's what I can tell you. Let me just give you some few things I just thought about that African can do. Africa can come up with a common currency. That is what they can start with. They can come up with a common economic block. We have 1.3 billion Africans. And we have a big market that we can use to even... But we have the AU, and I mean, we have the ECOWAS. How productive have those blocks been, whether they be economic or not? How productive have they been as blocks on their own? I'm talking about the ECOWAS, which is for West Africa, and the AU, which is, you know, for all the African countries. Before we even consider a national, unifying currency, how unified are we as Africans? I was just seeing... I've seen a lot of messages on social media about how black people, black Africans, are treated in countries like Mozambique, in Mauritius, in Tanzania, when they arrive, as opposed to people who have a different color of skin. So really, I don't know how getting a joint currency or forming another block other than what we have is going to solve our problems. I'm wondering. Let me, let me come. You see, what is happening today is the Europeans, you know, trying to see how they can cover up themselves. Africa, we have AU. AU was there when America invaded Libya. What did they do? Today, the only time you know of ECOWAS is when there's a coup, nothing else. So that is where I'm saying that we must have another thing, our think tank, that will give us an idea of what really Africa represents. Africa to me today is just there. AU, nothing. Do you know as to what has happened to our children? AU is supposed to come out and talk off, and talk off against racism. That is now the opium of what we are seeing in this Russia-Ukrainian war. It is racist. We have seen it. But what are AU doing? They are keeping mute. They don't know that these children are African children. This is a time for them to come out and defend these African children. But where are they? So these are the problems. We need to go back to drawing board and know why do we have ECOWAS, why do we have AU? Is it just because we are a continent? No. There must be economic viability of every economic bloc. There must be. And that is where I said we need to realize what actually Africa is. Because today Africa is nowhere. And that is where our children are being treated as barriers, as slaves, as nothing. Okay. Open up. In the community, where by every persons are looking and seeing. I'm sorry. Again, I think we're having little issues with your connection, Dr. But let me come back to Ponaba because we do not have too much time. Dr. has already said the pace on the issue of racism. We saw videos. This morning I saw a video of a Nigerian woman if I'm not mistaken. On the BBC, recanting her experience at one of the borders, I think in Poland where they said to her no black people. Black people have to walk literally. So only Ukrainians were allowed to go on the buses. They were allowed to gain entry. You would see people with white skin climbing over the fence and nobody would stop them. But if a black person was pushing forward they would push back. And when we keep talking about these issues of racism, I go back to what I said to him. Africans are being also profiled by Africans. In the African continent or on the African continent. So what effrontery or temerity do we have to challenge the white person in Europe who is also being racist amidst the war time? I mean I've also had stories of people saying that even our Nigerian embassy was asking us to show our COVID results to be able to get any attention whatsoever. So how do we even defeat the problems that is us as Africa? How do we deal with ourselves before we can even turn to the man on another continent? I can hear you. We are consumed in the various smoke with bell store. It's all about perception. The question is how is your own president of fellow Africans treating you? How do you see your own president of fellow Africans? How do you expect the world to respect you? Unfortunately most Nigerians of this country let me not say most. Let's say about 50% get involved in illegal activity. Can't even work with a genderized eye. Because you are crime in every society and so they want to reduce it because they want to work really. But your own ambassador is asking for your COVID status. He said that if crocodiles could eat their own eggs what can you not do to them? How and when will Africa be able to stand tall among the committee of states across the world? How? When? The more we talk about these things the more we have these kinds of conversations. It seems to me as that point where the world is and we are still trying to play catch up how soon can we get to that point with the situation of things on the ground right now? It will be a fleeting illusion if we don't get a leadership paradigm right. Nigeria was once respected worldwide representing to the minister to what have you. Most of these Nigerians living in the country is as a result of economic acts from see acts of blessed memory. Who wants to school abroad? Who wants to school there? That is the problem where I have to do first and foremost with leadership. Once you get leadership right you're going to get there. I'm not a leader. Sorry. We have just a minute. Quickly doctor. Let me just add to what he said we need to have a long-term strategic planning process in Nigeria or Africa. There's none. As of today we have all this one year budgeting system. It doesn't work anymore. China has 50 years. America has 20 years. If we keep on paying our budget with a percentage it doesn't work. Apologies. What are you looking for? I just said leadership. If you don't get the leadership we will all keep on going around the same corner. Our leadership is too I don't even know what you call leadership because they are not leaders. Let me now add the most important one your security architecture. That's one of the things that will give you power worldwide. What do you have? We don't even have any to manufacture common guns. We have been arrested instead of encouraging them. So this is the issue. What can you do? What can you do? If you are there I will deal with you. Did you see how all of us stayed like chickens? We have to go. I want to thank you gentlemen we are out of time. We want to say thank you for being part of the conversation. We want to say thank you we have to go now. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will take a short break. Stay with us.