 This movement has been celebrated with the sound of guns But these guns have been fired in salutation and not in anger the distant hills Will come the glow of fires But these fires of fires of celebration and not the big walk of encamped armies around From the voices of our children have come songs But these are not songs that are marshal in air But songs of praise and gladness for this day the day of our independence On the 14th of February 2004 As St. Lucia stood on the eve of his 26th anniversary of independence I had a rare opportunity to speak to a man men refer to as the father of the nation Our conversation would last several hours and run well into the night As he detailed everything from his childhood to his radical entry into politics About him guiding St. Lucia into independence and beyond in a never-before-seen interview He speaks frankly Highlighting the highs and the lows of his political life And let me tell you the history of Sir John Is the history of the development of Saint Lucia. I didn't know I was not a Sint Lucia Until I ended politics I always accepted myself as Sint Lucia. I was born in Canoan But as a child I Spent a lot of time in Sint Lucia particularly in the Meekwunder denry area as a child I went to the Arlington school here went back To Canoan went to school there and by time I was 11 I settled here permanently and Went to the first castries intermediate school There are three secondary schools at the time there was a St. Mary's College castries intermediate school and the conference The castries intermediate school was started by two enterprising men York and La Cobbine A lot of people seem to have forgotten about these two men But they were entrepreneurs in the secondary education. I I came here and started to go to school there and I ended up in the college St. Mary's College and I stayed in St. Mary's College until I graduated You know in those days as a student in in the college you want to aware of To not too socially aware We want in the form we didn't engage ourselves any social social disputes any any social any Contention they want any politics in Sint Lucia because it's during the colonial times. There were no no political parties It was what the administrators said what the governor said and a few Articles in the newspaper, but we are as students did not concern ourselves too much with with Political affairs and even Curacao When I we started become aware more aware of things in Curacao And we had one goal to as we left Sint Lucia our goal was to earn our profession Get a profession and get back home went to look for a job, but the only place you could look for a job a secondary school was in the government and I think there were ten of us who graduated that year and we all went to look for a job in the civil service and I was offered job in the post office at Ten pounds a month. That's $40 a month and I worked there for a week and I heard they were taking people for Curacao So We decided all of us that form all of us decided to We not this this is a dead end This civil service at ten pounds a month is a dead end. We can't see we can't accomplish our goals so we all went and Recruited it got recruited for to go to Curacao I walked into Curacao for two and a half years. I went to Curacao really to see if I could earn enough money to To get a profession The profession I was thinking of really wasn't neither law nor politics or anything was sent far from that The profession I was thinking over the time was engineering. I wanted to be an engineer. I would have gotten engineering Scholarship at the time it started what they call higher education Scholarships you have to go and be trained and come back to self-solution. They weren't bonding They don't sign you up to bond it was it was like a thing of honor That you would come back you agreed to come back and the only two of them came back In all I think they were the center over 20 or 30 To came back Charles cadet and Graham. Do you see all the others stayed abroad? Greener pastures didn't come back. Well, I applied for for the engineering Scholarship and I was turned down because I did not work for the government. I Went to to Curacao and I started to study for law in Curacao correspondent courses so I got Every fortnight when I get paid save a little bit and get the courses etc. so that when I left Curacao I came back came back here and It was really touch-and-go. Well, I should go to study at all when I went to go to England I got there too late for the Entrance into London University As I had applied to go there So I took the summer and I did my inter-eliby my first year externally and I went off to Wales to do economics. I did economics in Wales and The University of Wales it was a very small University very good very intimate etc. But too nationalistic It was too close. It was Welsh The only foreign students you you met was a couple of people probably one from Malaya that I knew another one from I think the Gambia and so that the British had sent in scholarship, but there was no part They know I was the only was teaching and they were bought At least for for what they call colonial students. They probably bought ten of us So I found that Wales was too confining Although the the the courses were very good the lectures were very good. I did Did very well there. I decided was too narrow and confined. So I left and went over to the school of economics and I stayed until I graduated I completed my course in law How did I get into politics is getting to this at the time in London London School of Economics was a firm it You know, it was really in in it's stirring up The big stirring in England itself the Labour Party just come in Got there their first term They were I'm speaking about the the British Labour Party and they They were conducting a lot of changes and and it was really exciting Then there was a colonial struggle in Africa. You meet people like when crewman you meet people like sick you you meet people like like Nero all of these people it was a firm it at the time it was great colonial struggle very exciting a lot of West Indians you you met the the great names that come through you know and you meet them in the in the little cellars and the coffee shops and the smoke rooms and Planning to how to change the world and then of course they was they was in the students union Which was very powerful very bringing all the West Indians together and therefore we We really are in in those days. It was quite exciting you If it was if you didn't realize what your goal was you would Be sucked into the politics, but of course my goal was to complete my degree as quickly as possible and to come home When I came back home Sinusha had changed They they had universal adult suffrage. There was elections There was they Parties here. There was the Labour Party and there were people's progressive party and Of course that that was just Politics in name Because there was they had The responsibility but not power the pause till was with the administration the government the poor people poor fellows who were elected And in the parliament the people to look to them To do something which were the cut they were complete put completely powerless They had no power. You can just the legislative council. Just a talk shop So when I came back came back home there as I said things had changed there was the A lot of people whom I know the middle class. They had been destroyed By the fire and there was the fire was a great equalizer People who were living in the big houses etc found themselves living in the CEC people who who had Who had the big homes or living in barracks and so the fire was a great great social equalizer So that is the Sinusha I returned to I came back and started to practice law and of course You must have a base My base is now the eastern district of Meku and Denri where my as I told you from the beginning where my grandparents Had and even my great my great grandparents started They had established themselves there. They were known there. So I started to practice law there Then in 54 That there were elections again. There's elections in 51 and Now elections every three years in 54 the person who was representing the The constituency was James Charles the father of George Charles So let me come back getting into politics The as I got interested in in that constituency the People came to me. It was dissatisfied with James Charles I was I was then when I came back home I joined the Labour Party and after a couple years. I was actually secretary of the But in 54 when They had elections The people came to me people came to me and asked me to represent them. I I Whole contingent of them and they were pestering me. So I said, okay, I will come and I told they are Told the Labour Party that I was interested in the den receipt and of course I could not get it Because George the James Charles was George Charles's father Was held the seat. So I decided I was going to run independent So I run around independent with James Charles who is the incumbent Lenox Williams a farmer who is quite popular FG Charles and he used to call him Guati Guatemala Charles He was a farmer and a bus driver and myself we were four and that is the only election I ever fought I Never had any problems with that constituency between 54 and when I left in 96 and that is the only when the the great avalanche came in 97 It was the only one that stood up the East these elections I won and I Know I was independent I Was then sucked in an attempt. I was the radical You know, I was called all type of names communist all this stuff. I was a radical, but I had to be tamed Now how do you tame me by as it were buying me And I was brought into what they call the executive council Exactly there was the legislative council of eight elected members and they was the executive council. It was controlled the majority was With the non-elected people the administrator the financial secretary and the the attorney general the and two persons nominated by the administrator and there were two Chosen from the From the legislative council, so I was one of them and the company Dr. Carla company was the other so we too So that is an attempt to tame me So I went in and and served for a while then there were changes I Was then an independent there were changes in 1950 56 we had the semi-ministerial system in which Persons from the House of House of assemblies. It said now it was then legislative council or elected to the Executive council and became ministers, but at that time I went out. I Was no longer in the executive In 1957 I rejoined of 56. I rejoined the labor party There was a lot of upheaval as I said I From the eastern district and part of that was sugar cane the dominant crop was sugar and The denry valley was one of them and what I saw in the denry valley From the time I came back from studying. I Decided it was not acceptable in the 20th century It was not acceptable in a civilized society They had not emerged from if they'd emerge from slavery. They had not emerged from from indenture ship They were still there under the absolute control of their state owners. You had the If you put had your house and most of the land is owned by the Estates owners if you had your house on that land You had to work for the for the company and if you did not work for the company You had to remove your house. You couldn't keep a cow anyway. You couldn't do this. You couldn't do that and Worse, what is worse the social conditions? I'm not speaking about bad housing, of course the jupe on the kai pie all of these things the barefoot people the No, no civil amenity children by the time they the ten years They made the first communion and that was all In January February you had to go under the cane the father is cutting the cane the mother is Bundling and the children are carrying so you walked in gang family gans Cheering up to ten years from ten years upward working in the cane fields the advantage you used to take with people I decided this can't work So in 1957 there was a cane strike And I decided that this got to end So I entered the strike And I kept it. It was a strike Rosa close the sack and then re Rosen close the sack nearly caved in but I kept then re going until that thing was broken and In when people look back at the modern history of solution they look at that strike defining moment social and economic moment in solution because the the master saw that His day was finished. I kept it for six weeks They brought in police from Because the solution police were not going to one shoot solutions They passively supported us They brought in from Barbados and Grenada, whatever it is. I was arrested a chicken put on a on Canadian warship and kept there for about eight or ten hours and then released and then kept on the curfew I could not go to the valleys for a couple of days or whatever it is But I kept it there because I know that the The social conditions under which these people have had to change But the So as I said from that time the shackles off because the Because the sack and Rosa They gave in and they formed the public companies. They sold out shares the public etc But the only estate that is owned by individuals then the canes the cane factory went on to Ground that crop in 57 by 58. They started to convert into bananas Because Kane was finished To them there was no future in Kane They start to convert into bananas and then I got the cane farmers At the time also to convert into bananas. So I gave them an alternative crop So it wasn't that I had so many hundreds of cane farmers on my hands Nothing them to do because I destroyed the cane the cane crop They I got them Into bananas I had got a Farm small farm in Mico, which I still have the Mico area growing bananas and as In to encourage people to get into bananas. I went myself So just to show as an example that I am I'm in it and therefore they can go in 57 their elections in which the Labour Party won Seven of the eight seats which we won the whole of the east We we lost Sufer Sufer was the only seat that the Labour Party Did not win McFrain the McFrain he held on to Sufer's it so the Labour Party at the time became dominant in politics there at that time the New people had been entering into the political field besides me. There was a Morris Mason Who died quite young? He'd also returned from England and other people had started coming in and giving some really Organizational strength to the Labour Party The before it was just shouting a few things in the slogans in the market steps. There was no organization There was nothing at all. We gave it The organizations strength to myself and Morris Mason those others would come So that in 1957 elections the Labour Party came and became the dominant Power between myself and Morris Mason and others and others within the Caribbean. We started to to push for Also for more greater constitution reform for greater power To be vested in the local representatives between 1956 and 1960 Administrator was still in the head of the executive. There's no chief minister in 1960 there was a there we had we pushed for constitutional changes and the British agreed to give constitutional changes and you had a Chief minister Some a person to put the chief minister then was head of the government George Charles became the head of the of the government in 1961 they had elections again. So you had elections in 54 that I passed to be then In 57 In which I passed it stated and now elections in 61 They in the 61 elections We had the new persons they extended the constituency the number of constituencies from 8 to 10 The eastern district as it was called then in Miko split into two I I Took the Miko side and I brought in Morris Mason into denry and we both won Again, as I said other people coming into the Labour Party Dr. Vincent Monroe's had come in and he won the sous-faire seat So that the complex the complexion of the Labour Party started to change from the trade union base to be more professional people myself and Morris Mason and Clive Compton and Dr. Monroe's and so start giving it a Greater professional character now the people who were Involved from the The trade union days They started to become very suspicious of us And they gave us a very hard time They are they call us, you know, we want to take over At that time the the term intellectuals it was a term of insult, you know the intellectuals coming and you know and they between George Shars and Odeo Jean-Bartis and Colin Moore And those people they gave us a hell of a time. So we found it intolerable and we left I left with Monroe's and Dr. Monroe's and and Morris Mason and that More less fragmented the Labour Party and broke the power of the Labour Party that they did not regain until 1997 People's progressive party was urban party castries Souffre Fairfort the Labour Party was more rural and more worker base Where the people he was more middle-class and urban So when we are when we We left to the Labour Party myself and Morris Mason and Monroe's We formed the Owen Party for the National Labour Movement of course the Labour Party that joined the What I would call the reactionary forces and they branded us communists We were branded as communists and we were this and we were that and We stayed it with the National Labour Movement for about didn't last very long about Two years There was no room in solution for third parties the Labour Party had this is Worker base the Malay way as they called them The PPP had the urban middle class and we were just there So we decided really this is this is no no future in this sort of thing. So we decided to form the joined together with the the PPP They had one member in the Parliament. We had three members of the parliament and we formed the the United Workers Party with the People's Progressive Party with George Madison the Parliament Henry Girodi Well, will Fredson Claire Daniel and persons like that Michael de Boulay Antoine Theodore and so We'd formed the We'd formed the United Workers Party the Labour Party's was Let's look at at the change a shift in political in in in in the political alliances I had had the Eastern districts the banana belt solid the PPP with mallet and Girodi and Dibbley had the urban areas That was eight So where were the booskies going? Evans booskies had seen virtually the the death knell of the Labour Party with the sort of of shift in political power so when we started to put pressure on the SLP because of the interfering with the bananas Evans booskies saw his opportunity by backing the banana farmers Now Suzerdom go bananas You see so it's really an opportunistic move on his part and and well here when we started to put pressure and George Charles tried to bring the bill we moved the vote of no confidence in the In this government with the full knowledge that either the booskies would vote with us or would abstain and The government would collapse So what George Charles dissolves the house Before the vote of confidence could take place he dissolved the house and We went into elections We of the United Workers Party we won six seats out of ten And the booskies came and joined us and gave us eight out of ten so They as I said, it was the alliance of the urban made a class and the banana farmers that made the shift in politics in St. Lucia and that remained from 1964 until 1996 listening to Sir John as he detailed His youth and his entry into politics. I mean this just fascinated me I was fascinated by his determination and his vision It showed he cared very deeply and thought strategically about making the lives of St. Lucia's better His United Workers Party had taken control now He was chief minister and I was very excited to hear What came next from the man who was now in the driver's seat When we came into in in 64 it was a period of change in the economic social and economic change You had the sugar industry was out Because by as I tell you the start then we started to change from sugar Into bananas by 58 By 61 they had gone completely out in 64 Geest Had come in Not 64 earlier than that. I think it was 62 Geest wanting to expand his market in in England Wanted more bananas to fight for big and share in the market and they Therefore they decided them. They must have the production base and They decide to offer to buy out roseau and Coliseum that were then in sugar Geest agreed they would keep roseau in sugar But they would convert code cul-de-sac into bananas But by 1964 Geest found that sugar was a losing game So they went and converted into bananas So in 64 we have some Luciano pushing ahead in bananas so we Look and see really How do we strengthen in these changes from sugar into bananas? How do we bring in solutions? Into the banana economy Because just having a piece of land in the cutlass Does not make you a farmer. You must have some financial base So there was a fund monies in a in the sugar called sugar fund monies in the sugar fund That was there for the sugar workers, etc, etc now with the sugar out we took that sugar fund and We made it in available to the farmers To convert from sugar into bananas. So that is when you started the first agriculture credit and So the farmers can go and now borrow money even you didn't have proper title As long as they know you are farmer you could borrow money to to cultivate bananas they As they in the song I think is what one of the songs about bananas said with with With my strong right arm and My piece of land I will live and die a banana man So we try to strengthen that banana Farm make him from a lab away a labor on into a farm We had to create a middle class a farming middle class and we use that money from the agriculture credit to Create that farming with a class I am quite emotive about the banana industry because I see the changes this Industry the social revolution quiet social revolution this industry has made in this country The people you could go to the bank and borrow money because I'm planting bananas and every week. I Have a crop to sell every week. I have an income Sinocia is to go forward The people must be educated. What did we have two? Schools at the time This they castries into media school that got long gone. They went with the fire Fire destroyed the school never rebuilt people migrated You had to Convent and the college all of them fee paying if you could afford you And you have the the elementary qualification you go to the college of the conference the total Number of students attending those schools was less than 300 Now how could 300 students even all of them? Entered in into the their their work stream workforce even all of them entered and Number of them didn't enter because girls got married and stayed home How could you develop a country? with only How many about 30 or 40 graduates a year? How could you develop? So we decided to push into education when the Americans were giving up the bases in Vierfort and grocery I Negotiated for the handover and one of the things I negotiated was for money for a secondary school And I put down the Vierfort secondary school. That was the the third secondary school The first new one in us hundred years So to educate the people from the south because in those people from from the Vierfort and Swazil and Sufari Took took when they want to go to schools like migrating Going to another country. They had to get some cousin or some anti-living in castries So they can live there during the school term and then go back People used to take their children and when the children leaving Let's say Miku or so pack them in the bus and cry Because in migrating to another country that is the you know people must understand what we had 30 years ago Sainte-Louche is a new country this Sainte-Louche I Had a man like Hunter Francois Who was my first minister of education? and Hunter pushed on They are the mourn We fall for teachers training We had a little shock in San Susi. That was all we had we used to send 304 Students a year to Edison College in Barbados and a couple more children. That was a total Oh number of trained teachers something was about five percent of the total total a teacher population About that. So that is what we had that these are the tools with which we had to work Every bird has a nest every every crab has a hole every human being must have a house as The economy started to grow We start having the internal migration as in every country the city is the glitter The city is the magnet people coming down To look for work Have a new middle class At that time let's look at what the Sainte-Louche society was at the time a girl Would stay at home At a parent's home until some gentleman And I say gentlemen would take her away No No, it's the the economy is getting more than The girls who are working Besides they're not waiting for any gentlemen. They want their own homes So must provide for them. What did we have? We're on castries Look at castries you had castries the the The area what they used to call the Hollywood is not there anymore Hollywood and there was Brooklyn and Hollywood some little mother cottages there That side you go up to the show say and you go down to castries river and then you meet the sea That is the totality of castries Then you have the slums of the Conway and the slums of the of Marsha and the slums of Warsaw That's with the totality of castries So you had to get land and in getting land now you again Closed in by history, you know history is now box you in You still have you still find the land even in all the land in the vicinity of castries owned by the old families Some so see was owned by the Barnard family Miss Clavier owned Entropo and that area so we They had the morn owned by the War Department in England All the morn area more than kubari owned by the War Department. So what do you do? So we decided look we have to acquire We are going to buy the lands once it becomes when it comes on the urban pressure We have to acquire So we negotiated with the Barnard family and we bought The Conway and so so see we negotiate with the Clavier family and bought Entropo We negotiated with the War Department British War Department and bought the lands but more the morn we created organizations we created The Urban Development Corporation the UDC and the UDC first it was it was first the morn development Then it was the morn and so so see development and as we expanded became the Urban Development Corporation the first Chairman of the morn development was Alan Bosque But when Alan became a minister I Then expanded it and I brought in regional Mitchell to handle the UDC We had persons like Leonard Oger engineer. He was both engineer. He was architect. He was meta-tuttefe and we then First development was at the San Susie we saw those houses and lots for $17,000 complete. I Hear the noise in the market steps now Don't buy the places swamp is going to sink etc etc etc, okay? But people who bought at the time now They had a sweepstake then we went to the morn the morn development Because of the access road to the morn it was difficult People didn't have cars. They had to get home So it the morn went very slowly Until we start improving the road to the morn and then more and more people start living there So we had the Urban Development Corporation We when we're doing the raid we will speak about the radio. Otherwise also we use the Urban Development Corporation To buy land at raid we radio orchard radio park UDC UDC the People in the eastern area they wanted lands What was up at Antropo a cocoa estate? so we acquired and Built put the Antropo development and more and more people going so we we have you had to create the blocks the building blocks the Organizations so in agriculture we had the bank It's not only agriculture agriculture it's expanded into fishing to small businesses etc. Until of course it's dismantled now You know, but that these things were what they call a piece of social engineering to change Use your your organization to change society So we gave now the middle class The teachers the nurses the civil servants the persons in the banks give them an opportunity for the first time to own a piece of Solution through the Urban Development Corporation. We we also now created the The solution market finance Company so they can go and borrow money from there. We strengthen the cooperative bank You know in order to because hopefully back was at one time was only back that could Lend long to do long long term lending. Yes Yes, well if we can talk about health, let me take take you back to the beginning when I started to practice as I told you my Major practice was in Eastern district denry I Had to go to denry every Thursday because that was the day for court sometimes I Used to stay was not married then but that doesn't is that is not for the reason why I stayed in Miku. I Had my farm up there Every time I pass in the road You see Probably two or three five persons trekking the road To denry from the Mabuya Valley to denry with plastic flowers and a little box No bigger than a shoebox a coffin for a child So let's start again Yeah, as I told you I used to come from Miku or denry denry going up denry to court Miku probably coming down and invariably You see This is a group The man would have a box of white drum in his pocket and He's carrying in his shoulder a little box Besides a shoebox The mother running beside him With a little some plastic flowers a child Go to be better. Why? Waterborne diseases This entry diary Rampant in the denry valley Perhaps elsewhere, but I'm telling you what they used to see This is my own experience So I decided hell I got to do something about that and what was worse in 1966 Morris Mason way mentioned earlier my best friend Representing the denry valley go to denry there drink water and Dice from typhoon so do you do you have to do something about it? So I decided really they had the what they call PHEU here and the PHEU I they said they want to drill wells and you know Putting a little plaster of a big bobo I decided that we have to do something. So when you came in The only places that you used to have portable water Was in the middle of castries we call central castries and There was a pipe going to Marsha where everybody used to go Because at one time some people used to have horses there and the horses had to drink water so you The only castries and veer fought sometimes and so far so far had always had ample supply of water now you had That's these the only places to water and the the question of the Infant mortality rate in St. Lucia From waterborne diseases Was one the highest in the hemisphere probably only less than Haiti We had typhoid dysentery Diarrhea bilhazia, you name it waterborne diseases So we decided to do something about it and again if you follow me you look you see We are doing it outside of the civil establishment Because they are too slow to react so we created first the Central water authority So that water we could have water throughout is now called wasco or was so whatever they call it now Well, it even in my time it became water because we added sewage But it was CWA the central water authority so that we have the the the question of provision of water in the in In this tour solution was centralized on the one authority The CWA and we had started to expand the water throughout now if you Did not Expand dude water you couldn't have the development first water's health You had to expand water. So we expanded water First in every major town then in every major community and look if we didn't do that with the banana industry and And the fertilizers and the pesticides and the amount nematocytes and the pollution of the rivers You know what would have had what the disaster we'd have had in our hands So all of this take careful planning and foresight We expanded the water They had bilhazi was a major major killer We couldn't do it ourselves In all these things I'm telling that we did Insolution it was it was done in solution when we had a lot of help from other agencies and organization Again, let me give her to France with a credit Hunter went to a health conference somewhere and he met with some people with the Rockefeller Foundation And he introduced them here And Rocker fellow helped us to put water in The first the areas that were heavily infected like the Mabuya Valley and the cul-de-sac Valley put water in those areas So that we can get the people out of the river because generally it was the washing in the river people getting Getting attacked by the snails Getting into the intestines and that's the end So We had the Rockefeller to assist us now as we It was tan pipe in those days Everybody not everybody people the poor people went to the stand pipe for the water now and They used to have what they call the free ness People go in public baths etc. That is fine. I mean that is how we grow we grew up gradually So we expanded water now When the United Nations declared 1980 as the decade of the water in 1980 Senutia was one of the few developing countries that met the criteria because we As I said that we expanded water throughout the countryside Eliminated Bilhazia tie forage fever. You don't hear about it again Dissentry and solution now has the infant mortality rate people's children who die before the the three years solution is one the lowest in the world 17 per thousand as The same as the United States or any other developed country So there we are Yes, well Let's go back a bit About provision for the old people. I mean not many of us in this room Would know what used to happen before Used to call it have what they call poor houses My wife's grandfather had one in the show say that he used to support You had other others around the Catholic Church used to support some of this For the rarely down and out the social security was by but the Presbytery Used to see the people lining up there either by Papi Clark or by its own so to collect a little Six pence and whatever it is every week That was it Now there was no safety net with the government of course apart from the civil servants The permanent civil servants no one has had a pension in the major countries They had the social security system in the United States They brought it out in the 30s Why Roosevelt after the the great crash in In England England didn't have a proper social security system until the 1950s When we came in we decided really once the economy is moving and we we expanding the employment one more people In in proper jobs in Regular regular paid jobs etc. Now when they retire we have to put something aside for them So we created first the national provident fund Now when we created when we started with a national provident fund It was hell. We brought in the bill There was demonstration in the streets Compton camp on a Jozok and all of this We did not get resistance from the people who are working We got resistance from people who wanted to exploit the whole situation for political gains Well, we pushed on with it Now we have the national Provident fund Now the national insurance is Expanding into health and then on employment etc. etc. It is the most powerful Institution in this country the national insurance scheme started with $250,000 a grant from the government to set it up That's all Now the national insurance scheme from these worth over billion dollars. I remember when we came in we had a We had two major international hotels Major international Silent one and the villa now in Silent one had about Mrs. French you remember She was she was more active in Red Cross than in in 46 rooms Then the big Nets big hotel was the villa And the villa was classic The there's one guest who stayed there told me this is the only Hotel where you have salmon for breakfast Salmon for lunch and salmon for dinner because the manager of the hotel it was miss salmon And she was that the she she was the like the custodian of Of a school for wayward girls I remember going there With a friend He'd come in from one of the boats and I had to take him to dinner So I went there and I didn't have a jacket and tie And she told me she couldn't Serve me dinner there because I was not properly acquired Attired, but if I sit just over there she can give me something to eat So that was Then we in the I Think it's 1960 When the Americans handed over The radio zone there was a part of an American base handed it over and it's Perhaps the beach was as is as beautiful now as it was then but that time it was a beautiful beach I mean we used to Castries was You know the city and it was there was country so when you had to go in a big big picnic and Big excursion or whatever it is you went up to really beach. Well, we read the The land that was handed back to us. What do could we do with it? we got the British government to the the Commonwealth Development Corporation to build the Senusia Beach They built they were they were then trying to help us to to develop Get into tourists not on us They built the Grenada Beach The Senusia Beach and one in Antigua and one in Belize. It was a chain of hotel built by the CDC Now we had had an agreement with this at least it to a Jamaican entrepreneur. He was a big with the big name in the hotel in Jamaica Issa and as one of the conditions that He had the lease of that property Was that he should expand To I think on the whole beach 600 rooms Try as we could we could not get any takers Because when people came into the Senusia Beach You know allow them had to leave my ambulance From mosquito bites You know, it was you had to be fogging the area You know They thought I had to go around and run in the evening to fog the place with mosquitoes the people in grocery now The big industry in grocery for children After school you came from school you change your your from your school clothes and you go in the pasture to pick up pick up cow down To you pick up cow down to burn in your yard to chase the mosquitoes in the sand flies And now you as you sit here if in those days you look grossly you see a whole haze of smoke It was the burning of the cow down to keep away the mosquitoes, so we could not get this place We could not get a tourist development in this area difficult We tried trying as we may we could not get rid of the sand flies so we called in The company from Jamaica the matrimon's Who had experience in this thing and they said well You can't fill the swamp Because it was it should take you cut down the pitons and dump it there. You can't fill it mean so so so so deep so what you have to do is to fill it Fill it with water with sea water so Doug dig out the lagoon But when you went down and taking off the muck Below that was sand and coral So you had to dig it out. Where do you put it? Do you throw it away? Because it was hundreds of thousands of tons of sand in the bottom over this I think this the The swamp itself the the muck was probably four or five feet but below that because it was Panty the old And on the dual geology that was it was part of the seabed So we found coral and sand. What do you do? Where do you put it? So we look at it let's join the pigeon island to the mainland Because some will easy told us in the old days when she was come from church She used to actually walk and low tide walk from grossly to pigeon island and During the low tide So we decided For two reasons one we had to put there the coral and the sand somewhere and two we had to create land to pay for the dredging so we Decided to create I think about 70 acres of land that joined pigeon island to the mainland and Once that was done The sand flies disappeared the but it's remained there this Every remained as it was from 1974 nearly 10 years Until the marina came And when the marina came the place blue So now having got rid of the sand flies You have towards development here, but you have another problem you have a problem of Transportation a transportation When we try to get into the towards development We got the Canadians to help us to expand the what is now Huronora then being filled to expand The airport to accommodate the jets Okay, the Canadians came they help us We built that airport to accommodate the jets But Huronora is the one end of the island castries The administrative capital is at the other end of the island and your tourism Area is even further. So what do you do? How do you get it? so we improve the east coast road Improved the connection before to go to fear fought. I mean like if you it was two days one day to go Yes, you leave in the morning one day to go and One day to come back come back in the morning come back next Next day for two days you had to so how do you? Get the junctions so we connected the east coast road We built the east coast road. I would you know, I must Sometimes look I have to look back a bit. I remember when we were doing the east coast road The same problem I had in building the castries grows their order Resistance some little ladies house was there and don't move just like in the Conway don't move when we were doing it, I realized that You to push a highway Through these villages you're going to get into trouble. You're going to kill people So I told the consultant look we have to bypass every one of these major settlements So we back with the denry bypass To bypass denry imagine the containers going through denry village We bypass Miko We bypass fear fought we bypassed lab Every one of these villages were bypassed with a highway. I remember You know If you look back you must Laugh at the nonsense. I remember hearing myself I say that I don't want these the tourists to pass through these villages because they're so poor You know, I want I don't want the tourists to see They these denry and and Miko and so because I'm ashamed you know, but You did it. You have your airport. You have your your roads You have to get your electricity Again, what did we have? Where did we have electricity? When you speak about tourism is tourism is integrated When you get your electricity before we had electricity a little pom pom there by the market A little tin can only castries There was no electricity up this way up in the up in the north I think gradually it got to the moon So we had to expand electricity We couldn't do it by ourselves So we form again a company Senoshi electricity services With the cdc Providing most of the money because we didn't have it Castries city council put in their share and government put in their share So the castries town city council now is it is I don't know how it is now But used to be when it started the major shareholders because We valued the land What we had or the government's part was The little power station we had in sulfur and the little one you had all one you had in veerfort. So we valued that Castries city council had more because they had the land and they had a bigger infrastructure, etc So they put in theirs and cdc put in theirs So castries city council was a major player in this one when we formed the senoshi electricity services and From that base we expanded the electricity throughout the island. It was our goal and now it has been achieved before used to have The 10 o'clock shift. I don't know if you think any of you will remember When they used to blow at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock they used to blow a whistle On the power station in castries Used to blow a horn And at that time your sewage parade started And it was taken down and thrown in an old barge and taken to sea That's as our sewage system Now as you expand and for the proper sewage system Your water consumption increases When used to the average household used to use what Probably two buckets of water 10 gallons a day You go into the sewage one flush is four gallons So your water As you build houses and you expand The demand for your water supply grows So we In the having done we did the rural areas etc. Let's take the castries in the north Was not enough If you want to speak about your Your your tourist development until they want to speak about your tourism development Then you have to have your basics You bring the people here by your airport You transport them By your roads You bring them in your hotels. You give them electricity. They must have a bath So all of this thing is completely Integrated So We run we see that I saw that we want to run out of water In 19 I think 76 I realized that in spite of all my efforts, we're going to run out of water So I went first to the venezuelans first study Then to the canadians then to the world back And the canadians took the lead They gave us 50 million e-c dollars as a grant And they helped us to get the rest of the money from the world bank To put down the rosa dam rosa dam is Can provide water For the whole of the castries basin For the next 50 years in growth, you know, we uh I started off with coming back from england and Opposition to colonialism And the countries must be independent When we talk about independence in those days, we didn't speak about san lucha as an independent country We spoke about san lucha within the Caribbean federation that was the big talk federation Federation failed Then we tried with the Associated states as they called them Hoping to get them closer together. We couldn't get that We tried the windmill islands And while we were negotiating the windmill islands, that's it's coming Uh Coming into 1974 While we're negotiating for the windmill islands to come together And the first we start will say which freedom of movement freedom to work from what permits Freedom to one land etc etc While we're talking about that Grenada Went behind our backs and negotiated with the government with the british government for independence And they gave them the independence despite all the violence and all of this in grenade They gave them the independence So what else the next thing we hear who is talking about independence dominica Dominica is Going independent. So what are we to do wait? So we in 1974 we We had elections in 74 which we won Our program there our political program was that Together If we can Alone if we must So by 1974 it was alone because it must So we started to We informed we went to the House of assembly first. I went to the we went to the party. We had a convention party convention in micho in 75 Or 76 We had a party convention. We decided we are going into independence We got a resolution passed in the party. We went to the parliament and presented The resolution the parliament of course it was opposed them And we then approached the british government to start Negotiation for independence the We had This problem we had a british government representative Who had been in butzwan that's in southern africa near to south africa and He was As racist and apartheid as as they come to him Black people shouldn't govern themselves They They can't govern themselves look what's happening in south africa look happening in nigeria. Look what's happening gone all this confusion now So he became the ally or the labor party Use him as their ally and every time they Made a meeting and keep noise and make a demonstration He would sent it up to the to the british and say, you know Is it going to be bloodshed in san luce? Is it going to be this in san luce? And he delayed us To no end. We went we went first They said fine you go back and Show that the people really wanted issue white paper and this Discuss it all over the country. We did that. We went back to us another story until 1978 We went to the constitutional conference We went to the constitutional conference in london and We agreed that we should We'd have all independence. We even set the date to the 13th of december That was the date for independence but the labor party at the time they wanted elections before independence And that has never happened jamaica got it without elections Trinidad got it. Guyana got it. Grenada got it Nobody ever that was never imposed as a condition on any one of them But it's a sort to impose it as a condition to us And the labor party objected Demonstrated they did all these things now what Had happened in In in the caribbean there was a lot of turmoil There was grenada. There was cuba. There was all of this thing and They exploited that They created a lot of confusion there was coming to independence Besides the the demonstrations and whatever it is coming to independence they are They fermented strikes in the public services Teacher strike civil service strike this strike that's right and trying to to postpone it try to impede it but of course they The thing had passed to the British parliament. There's nothing they could do to stop it What they did was to impede the celebrations of it The way we would have liked to celebrate it our independence We didn't want to celebrate our independence on this a threat of riots a threat of that that they For instance The flag raising ceremony Was to be the only place we had at the time was the marshal grounds them in the feather park only place with Oak big open space as such we had to keep it on the on the wolf Why did we keep it in the wolf because of security reasons? The british will not allow princess alexandra who was the royal representative to drive through The marshal road Unless she be ambushed etc etc It's that type of fair Not us because we know that was nonsense. We'd never do this That's not solution. But that british government representatives had instilled Had pushed in the minds of the british. They were going to be riots etc etc So we had it low-keyed Many people didn't didn't have it as we'd like to have had it Instead had the the big celebration for independence already the carnival that followed it Because it was a few days after carnival was a few days after independence without a hell of a time But for jose times it's really frightening because of the The threats That existed at the time that there were going to be disruption. There's going to be this one to be that they They customs and strike we couldn't get people in we had to get How to send send some people down there to take over from Their customs that their people get their baggage through A lot of difficulties it humiliated us It's solutions that humiliated us But I told them At the time with all of this they they came to give us very bad press I used the occasion of the youth rally in 79 To set out our goals I told them told the children at the time That we have to prove that Not that we'll do no worse than those Who ruled us before Not that we do as good As they did But we have to do better And that is what I set out to do To do better To give solutions an opportunity that they did not have Under the past regimes What happened Maybe just briefly after After after Elections after which 1979 79 79 where You lost the election And I'm just wondering whether it's all this agitation all of this that caused we then lose the elections And never accepted we lose the elections or hijacked There was a hijacking You know all the threats If you look and see the number of People who voted It was one the lowest I think it was just over 55 or 60 percent voted Thousands of people abstained because they were afraid They were afraid We lost the elections. We still as the uwp We still got 42 percent of the votes We still had a substantial support Now you had this In fighting within the labor party Which causes a lot of grief You had the the The confusion between louisie and The louisie faction and the autumn faction. It is similar To what I had with george charles And In in the in the sixties You had a new set of people coming in And In getting in conflict with the older regime and You had this leadership's struggle, but What gave What gave this thing Greater greater impetus Is what has happened was happening outside You had the In cuba You had castro Okay, you had in jamaica. You had manly In Guyana You had burning And in granada you had bishop So all of these factors Concentrated on on the confusion in solution You know when we came into independence, it was in the height of the whole war You know, there was the there was nicaragua. Remember There was angola Link between nicaragua Angola in cuba Then in a Slight away Jamaica with Michael manly Guyana All of these impacted on us Then you had the The new leftists In solution that were fed from that stream And they saw an opportunity I'm speaking we got Put it into the cold war. They saw an opportunity of capturing st. Lucia But using this new leftist element now The person who stood in their way Was louisie Luigi refused to give in and he had to be pushed aside So you had this confusion in st. Lucia with this leadership struggle between the the new left and the old left New labor no labor etc and st. Lucia population got caught up in it But they weren't really involved. It was a little struggle by a small clique of people now It collapsed The whole thing collapsed and we had to go back Into elections in 82, which we won and we won handsomely Okay now What did we meet in 82? The economy ruins because we had not only what has happened leadership struggle. We had remember we had harrick and allen With the banana industry destroyed. So we had to start to rebuild We had to start to rebuild in 82 And as a person was there it took me three years Before we got up at the bottom before we start to move people didn't know the trouble we had But we had to help again because Of the cold war The americans were very happy to see those guys go So they came and gave us assistance Gave us financial assistance to start rebuilding the canadians help us the british help us because they didn't want us to go the way of We neither remember within 21 days Of Of sinusha's elections We won the 22nd of February On the 13th of march. There was a grenade revolution So we got caught up in that We got caught up in in this that is how sinusha became That's why you know After the the elections Then there was the the grenade revolution and all this confusion In then Soon as we return By 83 The intervention and grenade Again, we got sucked in to external politics And we had to fight our way and confine ourselves rather than being drawn by it So but use it Use the situation we Supported the intervention of granada in granada And so when that is all to the way We the americans helped us To build the roads the roads away or in the mess The british helped us to we we build the the banana industry the canadians helped us etc etc So we we came into into independence really not only our problem of independence started from 78 When the the negotiations With and the confusion local confusion They I'm speaking about the assistance with the british government representative the latak Eric latak. I must mention his name you remember when they went and they The other one came in they went to malabar and smashed it up And the confusion the planning to take over by force Because the if we had I always say that Looking back is a good thing. We'd lost those elections Because they had their plan well made to take over by force after the struggle for independence And the turmoil that followed in the late 70s and early 80s The government of sojohn cometon regained control and remained there until 1997 Under the sojohn led administration the country saw major development in areas such as agriculture education health housing infrastructure tourism water development with ambitious plans in the pipeline But something was brewing And a big change was coming now in 92 elections After the 92 elections we had the question of changes in europe in the banana industry in the banana regime Because in all of these things bananas impact in the banana regime there were changes And therefore we had to we had to adjust I went to After traveling quite a lot in france and in germany and this all all over the place to get a good deal Having got a good deal for bananas and come come back here. What do I find? Banana salvation committee mashing it up You know, I had a deal to for us To export 127 000 tons of bananas this year we only last year we only exported 35 000 Because we mash up the infrastructure We mash up the association. We mash up this mash up I came back From from europe to find the place on the siege So every time We lost elections except this 2001 Except this last election every time we lost elections, which would be cause of fair set of violence In it in 79 To this violence in 97 it was this violence All the road in the in the agricultural area The the inner roads there to have the banana. Yes. Well, you tie that in with it with the yes And that's significant. Also the highway the the tunnel There's a lot of opposition. That's more recent to that. Yeah. They well, let's speak about they are the the internal roads you know what When we came into office There was a main road in whatever condition it was and there were a few roads some of these things they called extraction tracks I realized that you could not expand your production and on the backs The I mean the physical backs of your people By carrying up a load of fertilizer bag of fertilizer in those days used to weigh It used to weigh 200 pounds They had to cut it in two And but they have to charge it up the hill You had children during the banana days because they have to have their parents They during the banana days the children were not going to school Because they had to go and head out bananas All of these things it was an impediment to your progress So we decided whatever money we had whatever where we could get it We can beg for it or borrow it or whatever it is. We had to put a road system First to connect every major settlement Because there are a lot of we had big places that didn't have any any road connection They they dropped them by the highway and they had to take their loads into their homes, etc Even that you cannot modernize a country without proper communication So we push the road network in every first with every major settlement Then the farm roads and to open the valleys That is why the banana production increased from Well, it was about 20 or 30,000 tons 233,000 tons Because we open up the country Open up the so in no point giving a piece people a piece of land And they can't work it properly Or they have to take their wires to head out bananas or take the children out of school So the important thing we did is to open up They are open up the countryside by pushing free the roads and every time we got money. That is where we put it Then You spoke about the tunnel Then I said we spoke earlier about getting the important thing of getting the they connecting the their The airport to New city then to the uterus area then open up their Your agricultural lands, etc now You Castries is your major port People just the form of land transportation was changing You had the big container trucks And the huge trucks, how do you get it from castries? To veer fault or to sulfur. How do you get it over the moon? How do you get these container trucks over the moon? first we tried to bypass And do it Overlap talk, you know from too far show overlap talk. We try to bypass There this area and go up the moon the other side of the moon But the container trucks either they couldn't go up there or they end up in people's homes They kill they've killed people. So we had to get something we had to connect The castries to the south And the whole the whole tunnel road was for for three reasons One is to get your heavy Vehicles over the moon Two was to push castries to the south As we did the castries goes the highway to push castries to the north The intention was to push castries south Move all your your heavy Industries things like cement and lumber and whatever it is your banana association your coconut droves association All of these pushed up in the valley Your warehousing have castries Port castries to deal only with lighter cargo Uncontainerized cargo and tourism the tourist ships So you have castries is really a commercial port and open cul-de-sac Port cul-de-sac which had already been dredged To 60 feet in depth dredged to take the big ships You put another port castries to deal with the heavier things like your lumber and your cement and your fertilizers And your containerized cargo and push so rather than What what happened it's 97 happened. Yes Yeah Why I'd given enough From 54 54 I was elected to 97 You don't think that is enough that is not three years as I promised myself when I first went in I said I was doing one term No, no, no, I thought that the things were It was time for other people to take over You have I mean the powerful powerful Slogan in opposition is time for a change Isn't it it's powerful. What do you I've been there all this time Perhaps time for a change anyway. No, I I left because I thought really it was time for a change And let me just say that People said that I Did not Take a successor from within the party I as I should have done I did not do so because I look at the type of Problems you have to face I Believe that we had I wouldn't say solve but we were on top of our major internal problems You had your except for fine-tuning here in education and health and your Infrastructure your water it was all there the the platform for the For solution at the ready being built But we had to face challenges outside of solution the wto The the globalization the all of this thing all the the external negotiations all that's where all problems are going to come from So we had to get somebody who can deal with those sort of problems. I mean I can Your your ministers. I think they were rather good ministers but I don't We needed somebody to lead the charge In dealing with the external environment, which I knew was going to be difficult So I took somebody To deal with the external environment. I never chose von Lois to be leader of the opposition I never chose him to go to the hills at orion Or to the don at bouton or so and so to try to persuade the People to you know I chose him to lead the negotiation of That these this country must undertake In dealing with the external environment. That is why I And I know he's qualified for that If I had to choose him to go choose somebody To go to orion Or to bouton I would not choose von So you must understand the environment my thinking You understand I never never Expected the party to lose I did not it was a shock to me when we lost Because my preparation My preparation was not for that If there was anything like that, I would never have taken george mallet and made him governor general Because george mallet is too good a politician I would not have castrated him By putting him there and taking him out of the system He would have been there to support Whoever is He was either would be the leader because he's that type of fighter Or he'd be there to support that person who's the leader But As I said my plans were not For the san lucha For the the the party to be in opposition with von lewis Lancicot mallet when you look at the local scene But as I said The local scene the problems to me in the local scene was controllable But outside The problems we face outside now We needed a person like that. He knew in the External relations he he had interfaced with all of these major organizations the world bank the this the edf He'd interface with them. You know that knew some of the people by name So that was what why he was chosen, you know every Man has a season Yes Yeah Well the as I said the Where we we stopped about the the choice of my successor Well The result of that was disastrous. I mean we lost and we lost very badly including the successor I had chosen and the UWP remained in uh In in mourning Couldn't doesn't seem to be able to get out of They chose They went and they Had change of leadership I I was recalled And I found that they I couldn't work with those people who I had to work with I mean there's a risk in my time They always had What I propose They always think it was not good enough or not not wouldn't work But they wouldn't give me something that they believe would work. It was all a negative Too much of negative negative. So I decided to waste my time. So I stayed a few months and went out then Lewis came in and for some reason he too left Then we had more Bella Joseph. So we had there's no nothing settling in the In the in in the party and they talk about the alliance They I thought it was a great idea I still think it was a great idea but you have people with personalities when you deal when you're having an alliance you have to deal with people and It couldn't work as I if we want to personalize the thing I would work with George But I would not work under George I made it very clear I would work with him My relationship with him was Something that people don't understand My personal relationship with him never diminished Being he I knew that He has certain ambitions and I was in his way and he did certain things that I felt offended by but it never Never really affected The relationship that I had with him from boyhood But when it came for us to work we worked together But I wouldn't work on to him. So because look I mean, it's not power. I'm craving I've been prime minister for all these years Now we're going to come To work in a subordinate role. I would not do it So because of that the alliance broke up That's was it. It was not no more than that If we had worked out something uh A real alliance between us The alliance between us did not come if you could not see how it could work So And we were the major players in the alliance and once we parted it went Let's look at you You're worse than a hard talk Let's look at your major highs and lows You know over those so many years Things that stand out has been high for you You know, I uh, I go to In politics. I entered politics with two simple philosophies when I entered I was In The opposition to the established order I entered in opposition to the established order I decided To do what I can to break it. I'm satisfied that I have made changes Okay But in That way I had one philosophy to Help the cause that needs assistance and to fight the wrong That needs resistance Having fought the wrong that needs resistance I was given the opportunity to help the cause That needs assistance Having broken the back Of the the established order the plantocracy, etc It gave me an opportunity to help the cause that needs assistance To educate the children To bring water electricity or whatever that I did is it because I fought the cause The wrong that needed resistance so I could help the cause that needs assistance Then having done that I look around and say How should I conduct myself? I had one philosophy That I must look Not for tomorrow's vote But look after tomorrow's children if I had looked after tomorrow's vote I would have been out of office long time and with scandals but tomorrow's vote Do important to me Because I must have it to do Whatever little good I can do tomorrow's vote Was not the overwhelming factor And I was given an opportunity not to look Only for tomorrow's vote the option to yours given We come back to where I started The people of make one denry It gave me the opportunity to go out Because my foundation was secure. I didn't have to look after that vote Not this this was secure It secured even today In any one of those four constituencies I can go without holding a meeting and win Anyone of those four denry north denry south miku north miku any one of those four because What I did I did not have to look after them for votes Because they know Where I stood with them But I my Motto was to look after tomorrow's children That is why when I left Lee they gave me a plaque With every secondary school that I established in this country And when I go to Drive down the street And I see the uniforms In every community I see the uniforms of secondary schools I am proud of that My nose No, there must be When we lost the elections I was I was not the The 79 elections. I was devastated 79 97 I was most philosophic about it I didn't expect it and I didn't expect the type They are They I didn't expect that type of results I was disappointed but 79 devastated me. I just had independence. I worked hard for independence Another thing that was really I wouldn't say or Low point doesn't mean I'm depressed. I'm disappointed is when I I just come back from The World Bank meeting having Having just brought back A package for the banana industry Which I Is it was an extraordinary looking now with an extraordinary achievement to have got Us to a quota of 127,000 tons of bananas for export And coming down from my estate To meet the mobs in the street And for them in the same place where I had In denry valley same place To see them shouting for my blood, you know I felt like you know like Christ, I don't mean it in the blasphemous way. I know how Christ would have felt when it was As he entered Jerusalem it was Hosanna And then when they take him the same mob without changing their breath crucify him so You come back and you look back at these things you have to in In public life You have to be philosophical and you have to look back at history And to see it has all happened before It's all happened to somebody before and it happened to somebody after you So this is part of the price that you pay to be in public life So It is what do you do? I mean I the Short crucify him now I pass the same crowd daddy john give me a lift Same crowd What you do? Go home and cry now. No, no, no Do what You know do what you have to do do what you've been brought up to do To serve No regrets. I have no regrets No regrets. I uh some I was asked a question and without you asking me if I have to do it again if I would do it Yes, but if I did it If I did it I would be I'll listen more to myself because I have been betrayed I've been betrayed. I'm not When I speak about betrayed people is not uh well betrayed for Let me see not for I think for personal things but uh Not by I must be about my colleagues in politics, etc people have really got my confidence and uh And used it to obstruct me in doing What I think I ought to be there a number of people in the uh In in the society really Obstructed what I'm going to do. I I better be be be more specific in that uh A number of senior people in the civil servants service whom I should I depended on And whom I knew I knew of their loyalties But you vote as you like But I don't expect you I don't expect anybody And when I say anybody I don't expect a person who is in a certain position To really pretend To be what you are not Just in order to obstruct and betray You know and a number of things I should have done I could have done I did not do because I didn't listen to myself I didn't listen to myself. I just I decided and I back away It is a a big castries redevelopment plan Which was to do Expand castries May castries we speak about tourism May castries a major entrepreneur like st. Martin Because we have the harbor With all the tourists if the tourists come there they leave nothing They go to st. Martin and spend their money My whole idea was to Use castries for tourists Shopping and for the light Smaller ships, etc. Your major things put everything in cozy sack I was obstructed there because In one of the little clique and you always it always come back to you They thought I was In some big deal with some big company You know receiving money So I say you're not good in my character in life. I said to hell with you I'm not going to do it. I leave it alone. But if I listen to myself castries would be in the company even I was out of power castries From the customs right up Coming over down through sans souci tying up with her with Point sarifrin all of that would have been the shops Duty-free that area the bridge street That area would have been a duty-free area Flat three percent or five percent duty on easing and with tourism. So you tie that in You tie your shopping and your tree development and push all your cargo Your lumber etc done in intercosis, but they put my character online And I backed away. I had the financing arranged I backed away Because it Where the people of my character and I'm the same people Whom I've been asking for advice When I say I just asked for for administrative it, you know So These are the little disappointments I had I didn't But anyway Life goes on Me Let me tell you cameras off And he did come back The man who brought us to independence became prime minister again As he continued to write our history As he wrote his own This has been so John in his own words. Thank you for watching