 Thank you. Seeing the presence of a quorum, I'm going to call this meeting of GOL to order. It is 1032 on November 3rd. We are being recorded pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021. This meeting will be conducted by a remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom, or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by technological means. It's going to make sure that everyone can be heard and seen. And so we start with Mandy. Present. And Pat. Yes. And our scene. Yes. Okay. And our panelists, I no longer see them. I don't know why they disappeared from my screen. There's cameras off. Okay. Thank you. So Matt, we can hear you if you just say hello. Good morning. Thank you and my heck if you could just say hello. Hi, good morning. Great. Thank you. So everyone can be seen and heard. This morning is fairly straightforward. We're going to begin with the, the, the finance committee interviews and I'll describe that process in just a second and we have our two interviewees present. So we're going to begin with that. There is a proclamation that we were going to review, but I've not heard from the sponsors. So I'm going to just hold off on that. I have some business internal business related to GOL. So I'm hoping that this will not, of course, we also deliberate after the interviews. So sorry, I skipped that step. So I hope this will not be to our meeting, but we will see. So we're going to start with the Fincom interviews as I said that you can it's a present. They've been sent the interview questions and what we're going to do is proceed through them in order one through six. We're going to alternate the order of who begins first. That'll be my responsibility to keep track of that. As it said in the message we sent you you'll have up to three minutes. I will be keeping my on the clock and to answer each question you don't need to use all three minutes but you have up to three. A member of the committee will ask a question. There are no follow up questions and answering as I said will be random. And so that's let's first of all introduce our two candidates we have. George, sorry. I apologize. Could you put the interview questions up. I did not print a copy and I think we'll getting on SharePoint. All right, hang on for a second. So I will do that. And Okay, I got to do something else first sorry. Okay. Any questions. There we go. All right, apologies. Sorry. All right. Can you all see that. Yes, to go well interview questions. Okay, good. And I'll have them right up there. Good. You are sharing your whole screen, George. Sorry. Okay, I didn't want to do that instead of just the interview questions. Right. So let me stop there for a second. Thank you. Make sure that's sorry folks. It's all right. Okay. Share screen and interview questions where they go. There they are. Okay, thank you. So now you should just see the interview questions I hope. All right. And so any questions from the folks being interviewed about the process. All right, then we're going to begin and we're going to begin with my heck and Mandy if you'd ask the first question. So what do you feel you bring to the finance committee that can make it successful. That's a fair question. I think that I am pretty young, as we can all see. And I, although I do not have a lot of professional experience in the field of finance. I choose to do so in the future I study finance and resource economics that you mass right now. I bring into the finance committee I bring in from a smaller scale I've worked at three different nonprofit organizations and I've helped them in their financials in a certain way. Another way in which I can bring in my experiences by my experience as a treasurer for the UMass college Democrats, I do have some experience in making the budget for the this current financial year for my group. And from that I also have some training and education which is ongoing. I also bring in a fresh perspective I believe I come in from India I've lived there for the first 18 years of my life so I do have sort of an international point of view about money and finance but. Yeah, that's my answer. Okay, thank you very much. Matt. Thanks for the opportunity to interview. I think that I bring. I have some experiences that are that are relevant and I think I also bring temperament and, and a set of values and responsibility that would serve the committee well. I've served on a number of different sort of deliberative committees, you know, professionally and also in town, including the cultural council I'm the co chair of that and, and, and then professionally you know I've worked in state and municipal government governance for for, I don't know 1015 years now. I'm the special education director currently in a regional school district. So, very involved in the budget making process and, and, you know, on the, on the back end of being a department head. So, you know, the process of working with stakeholders, you know, building administrators, parents, members of the community at large and then, you know, bringing those forward to the public body for for their review and approval. I've done so in a municipal district as well in Greenfield. And then prior to that, you know I've experienced at the state level. Again, with a slightly different perspective but, but as the authorizer of a number of large state and federal grants. So I feel pretty comfortable around budgets. And I think more importantly around the budgeting process. And so I think, you know, as a finance committee member I'll bring a lot of a lot of value to the committee. I'll pad if you could ask the second question. What is your understanding of the role of the finance committee. And Matt if you would start this time. Sure, thanks. Thanks for the question. The role of the finance committee I think it's, it's interesting and an exciting one to me because of the, the relationship between finance and the town council as a whole. And, you know, I really think of this as a, as a highly trusted thought partner to the larger council. You know I understand that finance makes recommendations to the council that are not necessarily binding but that carry a great deal of weight. Due to the relationships and the composition of the bodies that that are making those recommendations. So when complex issues come before the council, or when information does not seem to be fully out there for the council the council doesn't have full information that they can often send particular items to finance for deeper study and investigation and I really appreciate that, that role. And I also understand that it's a public body and you know follow is governed by the laws of open meeting law and other laws and you know the importance of that as a formal structure. So I do see it as an advisory committee to the town council, but one that has a great deal of import and you know kind of looking ahead to the next question. And the importance that it that it has by having non voting resident members on the on the finance committee, I think, gives the council a needed perspective on questions of finance. Great. Thank you. Thank you man. My heck. Do I answer the same question. Yes, you do. Yeah, so exactly so while the finance committee is an advisory committee, I do have experience working with another advisory board I actually worked with worked with the distracting advisory board, our work just thought over, and happy to say that the map got approved as well. It is an advisory committee but like, we all say financial planning is extremely important I think it's the backbone of creating a developing process. So, the fact, the, I'm sorry I kind of forgot the question. Well, what we're asking. Sorry, go ahead. What is your understanding of the role of understanding. I'm so sorry. So the role of the financial committee is obviously budgeting and it will get busier during the budgeting season around April and May but apart from that just approving of the various different expenses that the town of Amherst makes and creating sort of plans and that is regarding the same. I think the finance committee is something that's really important because money does tend to be a big constraint when it comes to the execution of different plans and creating good financial structure is just really important for any body of government and it would just be my privilege to try and contribute to this process in any way possible. Good, thank you. Darcy if you do the next one please. Yeah, what is your understanding of your role as a non voting member. And my heck if you would begin this time. Absolutely. So I, my understanding of my role as a non voting member is that I have to be present in the meetings in order to maintain quorum. And I definitely learned this like I said working with the Districting Advisory Board. It is extremely systematic and I understand that I, it is a big responsibility to be present in order for things to happen. Again, like I mentioned before it is advisory so whatever the finance committee decides may not be completely binding. And yeah, that's all I have to say. So as a non voting member. I believe, you know I've heard in the past and I hold it to be true that the finance committee looks to the not in terms of the deliberation itself, that the voting members of the committee look to the non voting members as as equal partners in the discussion, which I really appreciate and find that to be a, you know, a great honor and, you know, I think the vote itself. As I said, you know the recommendations that finance makes the town council I think are non binding but taken in with great seriousness. And my impression from talking to counselors who are, who are members of finance is that the, the opinions and deliberation of the non voting resident members are taking taken, you know, with with an equal degree of import and seriousness. You know, it goes back to my earlier answer that having non voting residents on the finance committee gives it an additional piece of credibility for the council so the council knows that not only have, you know, elected counselors debated and come to these recommendations, but they've also heard the voices of, you know, taxpayers and residents and I think that that's incredibly important, you know, and I'm not sure if, if to to the previous point I'm not sure if the presence of a non voting member would affect the quorum or not that's we do it slightly differently with the cultural council. But I, you know, my thought is that it's much more about the deliberation and discussion and the and the variety of perspectives that the non residents members bring as it is to the voting procedures. Okay, thank you. Maybe if you take the next one. Tell us about an experience you have had collaborating with a group, particularly when opinions were in conflict or decision was controversial. And Matt I'm going to ask you to start this time. Right. It is funny to you answer and then you, and then you, you answer first the second time so it's a little bit of a brain, a brain shift. Yes, it is. It's part of the test. Cognitive flexibility. So, I think the example I wanted to bring up was in relation to the cultural council and specifically, you know, we, we have a window of six weeks or so, where we're very very busy reviewing grant applications and issuing grants. Last year, we came to a point in that process where some of us were very passionate about funding additional accessibility services, sign language interpreting, you know, services for the visually impaired mobility impaired etc. And that was a huge chunk of work that was not on our official slate. And so there was a little bit of, I think, I wouldn't say this dispute at all but just in terms of time management it was just unrealistic to do that within the confines of our normal amount of time. And, you know, we, we spun off a subcommittee on accessibility from the, from the main cultural council and that was actually one of three subcommittees that we formed and then disbanded as a cultural council. We had different members joining those subcommittees with different passionaries. And, and I think we did a really good job of, of being action focused in the subcommittees and bringing recommendations to the larger council of how to move forward. You know, in the example I'm giving specifically with accessibility so we, we found administrative funds, we created a side fund and we were able to support that work in a non biased and, and, you know, compliant way. We were able to run everything through the approvals of the formal council but also, you know, let the people who had the expertise and passion and interest in that area. Do the work that they wanted to do. And it was, you know, maybe it's not the biggest dispute that I've been a part of I work in special education so my life is kind of full of, you know, two sides not necessarily seeing, seeing equal. But I think it was a good example for for this interview because, because of the sort of committee subcommittee sub subcommittee that interrelationship I believe in that, you know, because I believe that that a lot of what we call disputes are really just a failure to fully understand the perspectives of each party that's that's involved in the conversation. And I think that you know in in government and especially municipal government. And other committees and other sort of procedural pieces like that can really allow for, for the fullness of perspectives to be heard. Okay, thank you. Mike, if you could answer. Right, so I would have usually given the example of my work at the DAB but I think that I have another example that's really personal to me. So, two years ago, right when I was graduating high school, I was the president of our student government. The pressing issue that was concerning me the whole time was the lack of mental health resources that we had. And as we all know public schools are severely underfunded so that just the concept of bringing up all of this money to be spent on mental health resources and the results of which are not quantifiable was something that was completely utopian to my school and everyone else whom I had to report to. There was this ongoing conflict because it was so clear that there were so many students who needed these resources but at the same time the administration was unable to provide that for us. So this was one of the biggest situations where I had to realize the power of resilience as well as the power of patients at the same time. We've come up with many such situations like these in the process of resource allocation and we can easily draw parallels with finance as well because finance is all about resource allocation. And sometimes there are completely polarizing opinions about these issues and in the end I'm happy to say that I was able to do it by a lot of convincing a lot of information sessions a lot of bringing a lot of third party members in and trying to have open conversation about how we need to destigmatize mental health. And ever since I left we do have a certain amount of money allocated towards mental health resources in my school and I'm really happy about that but yeah I think this this particular instance was just really pressing to me and like I mentioned before just really personal about how a decision making happens in such issues. Great. Thank you. Pat if you do number five. Yes. What else would you like us to know about you that makes you a strong candidate for the finance committee. And my heck if you would begin please. Absolutely. Thank you for your question. I think that my strongest trait would be my passion for learning. So like I mentioned before I do not have a lot of relevant experience because I'm still in college I'm still a junior but this is something that I know that I want to do for a long long time I do want to work in the government sector and I do want to work in the finance field. And something else that about me that makes me a good candidate I would say is simply a fresh perspective and international perspective I have lived all over the place not just two countries I've I've kept moving as I grew up one of my main areas of interest and area in which I will be collaborating with a professor for researchers development, economics and international finance. I think that these different perspectives would make me a good candidate to have for the finance committee. Matt, if you could answer. Sure. So, thanks again. I guess I would just say that, you know, as as first time homeowners and parents of a of a two year old son. I think my spouse and I, you know, I think we represent an important voice in in the near future of Amherst finances right now. And we are super excited about the large capital projects that are that are in play. And, and I've followed closely all the town managers presentations on the fiscal strategy that we're currently planning to use to pay for these things. So, so I think, you know, we're very much. We're very much looking at the options for the for the work. And also we're going to be major beneficiaries of it in terms of, you know, using a new library using a new elementary school I mean, you know, having public works fire I mean all these things are really important to us on a day to day level. And so, we're very, very excited about all those things and, and, and I have a lot of faith in the council and in the town manager and in the business office to make these things happen but I also, you know, as a first time owner and, and also very interested in seeing how this strategy plays out on a day to day level. And I think that, honestly, where where the town is right now, we do need an extreme attention to detail in the, you know, in the ongoing, it's just the capital budget. Although the capital budget is requires a lot of attention right now, but the operations budget as well because, you know, we're in good fiscal shape because, because our operations I think have been well managed from what from what I gather and what I've heard, you know, have been well managed year over year to the point where we can make these really huge capital commitments in the next couple years but but you know as a as a homeowner as a new homeowner. And first time homeowner and taxpayer, you know, I really do want to be aware of and knowledgeable of the, the financial tactics shall we say that that are going to go behind this strategy. And I think that, you know, my, my perspective and background in municipal budgeting would be helpful in the deliberations that the finance committee makes. Yeah, thank you. I'm going to do number six if that's all right. Just for the sake of time currently the finance committee meets twice a month. During the year but when budget season begins in April and May meetings become much more frequent. I would just like you to confirm that you have the time to commit to this meeting schedule. And really it's just a yes or no answer. So we just would like you each to acknowledge the time commitment and to confirm that you're able to to meet that. And so, Matt. Yes, and my heart. Yes, 100%. Okay, thank you. This completes the interview portion of this session. And so in a moment, I'm going to ask, I believe Athena she's present. I think I can do it too but I'm not sure what will happen let me stop sharing the screen for a second. I might be able to do this myself, but I'm going to remove you both inflict you into the audience. Let's just have a quick look here. That's possible for me now I can't I don't have that power. So he is doing it now. Okay, but before Athena if you just hold for a second now again on behalf of the committee I'd like to thank you both for making the time to come here this morning during our regular meeting session. And we're very grateful for your going through this process. And in a few minutes we're going to begin our deliberations. And you're certainly welcome to stay in the audience and and watch us at work. Again, we just want to thank you both very much for for taking the time to do this. Same thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time. You're welcome. So, I'm going to take a moment. I need to find something that. Okay. They take a moment. What I want to put on the screen and I did not put in my packet this morning for other reasons is the copy of our selection guidance. And I'm looking for my copy of it. I've actually have so many versions of it that I want to make sure I put the right one up there. That's the first problem. So bear with me for a second. George, I have a basic question about our process. Okay, go ahead. I may have missed something, but how did it end up that we had just two interviewees. I realized that they were the ones that filled out an SOI but what did they do? They voted on the sufficiency of the pool based on the number of CAFs we got, right? It's correct. And that was like six or seven. Actually it was eight. We had eight candidates in the pool and they were all contacted. And so we had eight members and they were all sent the notices and two submitted SOIs and only two submitted SOIs. One withdrew and the others did not respond and two submitted SOIs. So that kind of feels a little bit like the SOI process is a barrier. Well, let's let Darcy finish. Me, I'm saying to me it feels like that. And why do you feel it's a barrier? I think that there were only two people. I mean, I felt today like the pool wasn't sufficient, but we had already voted on it when there were eight. So it almost feels like we should be voting on sufficiency of the pool after we find out how many SOIs we have. Just saying it didn't feel sufficient today to me. Okay. Are there thoughts from the committee on that? Two viable candidates to consider. And I think that we can't we can't control how people follow through. And I think the pool is sufficient today. I have upon the screen the selection guidance. Can you ever one see that. Okay. And the first part of it that we adopted is essentially what is a general statement of what we look for. When filling a vacancy in a multiple member body. The second portion is specific to the finance committee. So I'm going to keep that sort of highlighted on the screen that I can scroll if we need to move it around. But just to remind us that selection of resident members shall be based on relevant experience skills and policy knowledge with an emphasis on municipal and public finance and then it lists a series of qualifications. And we also mentioned the idea of knowledge of and beyond Amherst. Of course, in doing this, we solicited we follow the procedure to solicit input from others. So, with this guidance in front of us, I'd like to open the discussion. Pat, I think you made a good point last time that it might make sense first of all to begin with each candidate and just general comments about each one, and avoid any kind of, you know, saying I prefer right, you know, but right now just sort of with the selection guidance in mind. Just review each of the two candidates in general. And then once we've done that, move to a deliberation about what we think who we think might be a candidate that we would prefer. So, if people are comfortable with that, I think that was a good suggestion last time that we start just with each individual and have a moment or two for each of us to talk about them. And then after that's done, we can begin to turn to where we might have a preference. Is that acceptable. All right, so I'd like to begin with my heck, if we could, and people's reactions thoughts with the selection guidance in mind but just basically any input just in reaction to what you've just heard. Yeah, well, I'm always excited to see young people, especially those involved in, you know, those that are institutions of higher learning trying to get involved in town affairs. It's something we work on a lot. And, you know, and so I'm excited for her candidacy that she's put herself out here to do this. She's, you know, when you look at the relevant experience and all. You know, she clearly has interest in municipal finance and is training in finance right that's that's her major that's what she's going through in university right now. And, you know, she she lacks the experience serving on a public finance or audit committee, but many of the candidates we see lack that experience, because that's quite specific so you know I think she meets our selection guidance in terms of the experience portion of the guidance and also the members who reflect diversity of our town's residents portion of our selection guidance to. Other thoughts on my heck and her candidacy on what her answers to the questions or on anything either in her SOI or in her CAF. I would just echo what Mandy Joe just said. I would agree with all of that. Yeah. I just want to say one other thing. I really liked her answer to the collaboration question. It was a great experience on a committee that that just, you know, showed some good experience, even though she's quite young on working with policies that contradict each other, working through bringing people in and finding that that is amenable to all different constituencies I thought that was a good experience to tell us to give us some idea of her experience. Okay. Other thoughts comments from either of two of you. I was struck by her experience on the DAB fairly recent. So she has some appreciation of how the town works and the processes that we need to follow open meeting law that sort of thing. International perspective. Interesting. I think the lack of real life experiences is going to be in terms of finance that is going to be a concern but that is also balanced by her obvious major by her major and her passion for this. Any other thoughts before we switch to Matt. All right, let's for a moment just immediate reactions to Matt's interview. We probably should acknowledge something that we all know and the public may not be aware of is this is the second time that Matt has appeared before this body so we have had the chance to interview him once before. And so thoughts on that and on his responses to our questions. There's a great deal of relevant experience. He's clearly grounded in this community now. And as a first time home buyer is going to be impacted directly about by decisions that are made in finance and the council. I'm particularly interested in what he had to say about subcommittee work. It felt like it showed a kind of flexibility of thinking and problem solving. He like my heck he brings a passion to his work and to learning. I also because I had a chance to interview him last time I had brought up a social justice question. And at that time he felt like he hadn't answered it well and it was interesting to me that in his SOI he really clarified and let us know what his commitment is to social justice work. And I found that that his that his reflecting on previous encounters with this committee. Really affected how was what he thought about and what he responded to this time around. Okay. Other thoughts. This is just a question to the existing non non voting resident members are Bernie Kobyak and Bob Higner. Yes. Yes. So, I guess I personally take that into consideration. When looking at this pool, because of our interest in having diversity on our town boards and committees. Right now we're looking at just thoughts about the candidate. Right well I'm just saying Bernie and Bob. For a lot of, you know, extensive extensive budget experience. And background in multiple different institutions. So I guess I'm just thinking, you know, as a whole it would be nice for us to think about diversity. I would agree with Pat on Matt's experience and all. You know, when we look at the selection criteria in terms of the relevant experience he's got it he's got, you know, again, maybe lacking the experience serving on public finance or audit committees. The volunteer point of view but he certainly had to present some given his previous jobs. So he might not have served on one. But there and then he's got the training and expertise and the experience in municipal finance, particularly on the school side. And, you know, so that sense he meets the criteria to. I think that for myself, the one thing that immediately stood out it's already been mentioned is the fact that of his ties to the community and especially as a newer member and younger member of our community with a small child. The sense of that connection and the issues that are going to be impacting the community for many years to come that certainly resonated with me. And that's something I think that that we don't have on the finance committee is that sense of of the next generation and the young families who are, you know, a key part of our of Amherst and a key part of its future. So that having that voice and that perspective was something that that struck me and also in his response. I think also his experience in the field of education and schools and school budgets is something that I think is also that struck me as important. Given that role that plays in our budgets. And so that was something that also stood out to me. I was impressed by his clear understanding of how the finance committee works, and the role of a non voting member. And this the, the sense that he has actually done some research and done some, you know, further exploration about the committee and how non voting members have been treated and how they are viewed by the committee, and that also impressed me. Looking through my notes anyone else with any thoughts about Matt's candidacy in general, before we go to sort of thinking about our preferences. Okay. Two candidates in front of us. They have certain strengths and certain areas where you know they maybe would not completely cover everything that we're looking for but I don't think any candidate could ever do that. Do people want to go to sort of just the initial sense of where they're leaning. Do they want to make a case for particular candidate. I'm clearly interested in Matt Holloway's participating on the committee as a member of finance. I think he will bring an additional perspective to the other two that will deepen other contributions of the other two. Non resident member resident non voting members. I'm, you know, so I can I feel like my heck brings passion and and she's young. I'm concerned about her ability to maintain a meeting schedule because at this point as a student, she does not know what her spring semester will be. And that's a particularly difficult time for the finance committee. So I'm concerned about that. I feel like as a member of the finance committee, it will be more helpful to to rest on it on Matt's experience, and that I really wouldn't encourage my heck to attend and participate as an attendee in finance committee meetings, because I think she has all the potential to become a member of the finance committee but I feel like we don't see yet the directness the focus that I I think the finance committee needs needs. I guess I'll say I don't know which way I'm leaning. I agree with everything Pat said about Matt and our lack of family diversity on our. Many of our council committees at this point, you know that the group of people beyond students in terms of that are not well represented are those with kids. And so I agree with with Pat that that is something that we needed to strive to do better with. Yeah. And yet, my heck is showing a passion and an interest at such a young age that I have to absolutely respect. It's something I'm not sure I could have done myself at that age, and, you know, and brings her own type of diversity to the would finance committee and so I guess, every time we've done finance committee interviews finance committee appointments for the last what two years I think we've been doing this, it were always faced with a tough choice. A plethora of good people and qualified candidates that come and want to contribute to the town. And so it comes down to what at what what I am weighing more at whatever time I'm doing these interviews in terms of what's most important so I'm not sure where I am on that yet. Because I think on the relevant experience I would give a little bit of weight to Matt, having better relevant experience skills and policy knowledge but I don't think either are not qualified on that ground. But then we have to look at the first part of the selection guidance which is a good group of members that have experience a good crop of members that are new. And, and those that reflect the diversity of the town so I guess I'm saying I'm not sure where I am right now. I'm struggling with, and please someone if they want to speak up by I try to wait until, but we're getting long gaps of silence here so I'm we do have two hours so we do have time, but what I'm struggling with is, is appointing a student to this body. It's really a struggle for me. It comes from someone who was super excited with the DAB to have students serve. And as I think all of you know that was that was a difficult process, not the DAB struggled to meet quorum it struggled to and that was over a very focused period of time. And the issue is not just with the student members but that was part of the challenge. And here's a body that will be meeting for two years, and we do give a preference to. It's not decisive but we give a preference to people who are serving more than two years because of the experience factor. And this is an undergraduate who is a junior. And as Pat pointed out, as an undergraduate. They don't even know what their schedule will be like in the spring and they have no idea whether they will still be it's unlikely, not impossible but unlikely they'd be an Amherst after their senior year. And I would think it would be unusual for someone to stay in Amherst, make a decision like that just based on their service on a town committee, especially a non voting town committee but I think any town committee. So I'm really struggling just from the whole idea of appointing a student to a body like this. We don't have many bodies that we appoint people to these are extremely important bodies. And maybe this is just going to be a problem that a future to well in a future council have to wrestle with. But I, given the experience with the DAB. Given my understanding of the challenges that students face just academically and socially and all the rest, and given the importance of this body. That's something I'm really struggling with to make that kind of commitment. So, we do ask that question. It's a yes or no answer. We may talk at some other date about our format and about our questions. I mean that's part of the process that we go through as a body but so that's something I'm really struggling with. Apart from everything else. When I look at Matt, the social justice answer in the SOI, the fact that he has a young family. He has a school budgets. His knowledge of the of the thing common how it works is knowledge of the four capital projects that these are all ticks in my box. And I'm weighing that against young woman who's clearly passionate and has a very strong interest in finance and is studying it. I think given the importance of this body and given the commitment that we're asking. I'm really struggling with the idea of appointing to a student where we just don't know and they don't know and they can't say whether they will be here in two years time. Or for that matter even in the spring, what their schedule will be. And again, the experience of the DAB to me was very, very disappointing. It was clear to all candidates that this was a very compressed process and made very clear that the time commitment and yet it struggled, as you all know mightily to make quorum, and we had to go back and it was it was not not a pleasant process. So, that's also weighing on me that experience other thoughts. And I'm prepared to make a motion. If no one else is that I would recommend to the town council that that at least this committee recommends the town council that Matt Holloway be chosen to. How do I want to put this. My mind is on other things actually today, but someone want to phrase this in a way that would be recommend the council appoint. All the way to the finance committee as a non voting resident member for a term here. Immediately and and do we know whether it's 2022 or 2023. It'll be 2023. June 30 2023. Andy that's the motion I'd like to make is there a second. Second de Angelis. So we have a motion that's been made in sector Darcy. I just wanted to I probably should have commented before I just am going to abstain because I do I kind of I feel like that we don't have an adequate pool and that will be the reason why I abstain. And I especially think we need to work out. Like, if we're not, if we're not going to have students on our committees and boards that we should let them know in advance that, you know, not including students. Because if that's a reason for rejecting them. So yeah, we would have a really small pool, we'd have one person. So we just need to, you know, put people on notice if we're if we're not going to look at students and I'm not saying one way or the other we just need to. If we're not, if we're going to say we don't want students then we should let people know in advance. I'm just speaking for myself. So, and I'm not saying I don't want students but I tried to explain that a recent experience that you're all familiar with has given me great pause. That's all I'm saying. I'm not making a recommendation one way or the other but I hear you that. That's, you know, that. Yeah. In no way were you making a recommendation, you were expressing an opinion. And I did speak with some members of the DAB about the participants, whether they were students or not and I'm uncomfortable. I think to recommend a member who a possible member who made a commitment and then in very in really no way followed through on it and I can't, I just can't do that. So it hasn't got to do specifically with her being a student, but being unable to participate after agreeing, she could. Other thoughts on the motion before we move to Mandy, please. I just want to say that I disagree with Darcy's conclusion that the pool is not adequate. I just wanted to make sure my opinion on that is there that we have one opening we have two candidates that meet all of our selection guidance or nearly all of the selection guidance. And so I couldn't agree that the pool is not sufficient. And so I dispute myself dispute that conclusion. I've seen no hands raised. I'm going to move that immediately to vote on the motion and I'm going to begin with Darcy. And Pat. And Mandy. And the chair is an eye so the vote is three in favor, not opposed to one abstain and one absent. So I will pass this along to the council and our report. And there are recommendation to the council. Well, look to the president decide when it goes, but I think it will probably be on the next agenda. Since I finance committee is already getting started with its work. So, I'm going to stop sharing the screen for a moment. And I want to take a look at bear with me. I'm going to send a so item number four is review of the small business Saturday proclamation we've reviewed this now I think on two other occasions I sent a notice or an email to the chamber and the bid, asking them for their advice or input. Since I believe they are the ones who are the actual sponsors. And I've not heard back. This event, I believe takes place at the end of November. So I felt that there's still adequate time. If in fact, the chamber or and or the bid wants this to be brought to the council for a vote. So I didn't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable reviewing it today, since I haven't heard anything from the sponsors. So unless someone knows something I don't know, which is certainly possible. I'm going to postpone this until I hear something. And if I don't hear anything then I'm not going to put it on the agenda again. So, that's where we stand with that. The next item is one that is sort of as we come to the end of our time. This first inaugural council at this particular committee. We want to give some thought to our policies and procedures and sort of get our house in order. And I'm going to need your help with that. First of all, just your input. And maybe in some cases your help. What I had asked you to do, or at least had hinted at doing was to just take a quick look at our website. Because I think there's some documents there that at least in one case, perhaps we might just rescind one and just have it replaced by a different one. And some duplication, I think. I think we also need to make sure that the, the actual policy that we have adopted is in the correct form for the process for a Fincom. So I don't know if anyone had a chance to look at that but that's the item number five is just to take a look at our website and we can put that up on the screen if you like. I believe I can do that. I hope I can do that. And then related to that is, is, is the item six, which is just the transition to the new council and I have a document I can put on the screen for that as well just to help with discussion. But while I'm looking for the website to put it up. I don't know if people have had or about this transition process and about our documents and what should or should not be preserved. There might be some things that we should just get rid of. There's some things that perhaps are duplications. I'd like everyone to at least look over this, not now, but in the next few weeks, so that we are happy with what's on our website. And we're happy with our formal documents and policies and procedures, because once we're done in December, a whole new group will come and take this over. And we'd like to have it in a good shape. I think it isn't relatively good shape. A lot of that is due to the prior chair and the work that was done but I've tried to keep things in relatively decent shape but we need to look at it as a committee. So I don't did anyone have a chance to even look at our website. I'm going to see if I can open it up. Anyone have any thoughts about. Just one in general, which is we need to update which the document on recommending multiple member bodies given that it's now a town council policy I know Athena has put the policy into the town council policy. The adopted policy section. So we need to remove the website. That. So we need to remove the, the GOL adopted one and just put it in there too. I think it probably needs to be done for CRC too, but that's just an update of the document given what council passed a couple of weeks ago. Right, right. Thank you. Anyone have a chance to look at I'm just again if I can get this to do what I wanted to do. I will put it on the screen. We'll see what happens. I'm not sure I can do this. Anyone else have a chance to look at what's up there any thoughts about that or in general about the transition and what we need to do and do here. I'm going to try and share the screen here for a moment. And I'm going to have to share probably my whole screen. There we go. Okay. Can you see the website. So, quite Mandy is pointing out is that this process to recommend finance committee appointments needs to be revised. Okay, and I will do that. I felt and maybe this is something people can do over the next few days. And when we meet again we can talk about it. There was some duplication between. Where is this. Yeah, this between our FAQ and a revised guidelines, which are somewhat old, and I felt that the FAQ actually is better. I didn't see a difference between the two and I felt one of them should be removed. That's something perhaps people need to look at and then weigh in on. Okay. I felt the resolutions proclamation citations and commemorations I think you is fine. Our charge is what it is. Meaning schedule obviously will change charge template. I don't know we've that's something we really haven't looked at much. We may just want to glance at it and make sure we're happy with the way it looks. So I will replace this. I would like people to take a moment at some point and compare the FAQ with the revised guidelines and see if you see that they both need to be there. If anyone could replace the other I prefer the FAQ, but okay. All right, well somebody has thoughts about that I'm going to show one other document and talk a little bit about the process that we're going to be engaged in for the final two or three sessions that we have. Okay. So this document is just something I put together a number of weeks ago for myself, but I want to share it with you and see if there are things you want to add or take away what's missing what doesn't need to be done. So besides the website which just talked about. I think it's important that the council could benefit from potentially if we were if we're up to it about the whole issue of the manageability of this job. Not well now I'm talking about the council. So council meetings time commitment making the job manageable. You may feel as committee members it's really not our purview. It's organization and legislation so I would think this falls under the category of governance. Is there anything that well first of all do you want to even talk about this at some future meeting. And if so, do you think it's appropriate that we might offer some advice would we have any advice to offer the council in terms and we're talking about the future councils now in terms of making this job manageable. So that's the first question. I'm going to go through these and I will go back for a moment and talk about them individually. I'm GOL policies and procedures essentially this is the website, at least a good portion of it is the website. And I think that we discussed that a fair amount already chair duties I many might want to weigh in here maybe Darcy in terms of your experiences chairs. To what degree it's valuable to have an actual document that lays out what the GOL chair does with that, you know, I'm happy to sort of craft something like that and then get your input. And before we finally do that is that something that you think we should leave behind a description is that something that that you at CRC chair Mandy are thinking of doing or maybe already done. Yeah, but yes, I was, I was going to try and leave a document. Well, many documents because of everything the chair has to do at CRC but yeah, you have a detail what processes and what a chair has to do for appointment recommendations what a chair has to do for hearings what a chair has to do just in general to clean up and close out meetings and to call meetings and all. I haven't drafted it yet though. So you, you thought we'd be, this would be something valuable for a future future GOL committee, the GOL chairs duties I think pale and comparison to some of the things that fall in the head of the CRC and also TSO I think quite frankly, but still Darcy. When I started as chair of TSO. I actually, I asked you George and Mandy Joe for advice and I got some in writing from Mandy Joe that was very valuable. It was just general not just specific to TSO but general chair responsibilities so you probably still have that I'm guessing Mandy Joe. But that was extremely helpful. So having something like that, perhaps tailored to GOL, you think Darcy would be something we should leave behind for a future GOL. Yeah, or. Yeah, yes, probably specific to GOL and also, you know a general one for chair duties generally. Okay. The committee is tasked with annual review of the rules or procedure. And again that something that could be mentioned under the chair duties, but it's not really clear what you know that's pretty much. I'm not sure that we're going to create one or we have the bandwidth at this point to create one I'm not sure we need one maybe all we need to point out is that this is something that this committee must do and that would be under the chair duties. And then it would be up to that particular chair and that particular version of GOL to figure out how they want to do it. But they should be on notice that that's something that they are expected to do on the year of the basis. Is that required in the charter. And that's what we're in demand. Where is that where is that in our rules is maybe it's in the rules procedure itself, I don't know. That seems like it would be better like once per legislative session or less, even less frequently, but once a year. The end, we are believe are required to do an annual review of rules or procedure. That's in the rules itself. It might be in our charge. Okay. Either the rules or the charge itself. We might want to amend that to be once per legislative session or something like that. So every other two years is what you're suggesting. Yeah. Okay. I mean that's certainly a thought I don't know. So this is why we're doing this. So one item for discussion and decision would be obviously we have to do item three. So one of the things that we're trying to do for us is do we think that it should be done a yearly basis or should be done on a basis of each, you know, each council do it once for its two year term. So you review the rules or procedure at the end of your two years. Well, that would be that an annual review if there aren't particular changes that come up or, or events that make us focus on a particular rule or procedure that it's a pretty simple process. But having a year of experience on the council is going to open you to changes to rules and procedures. If it's, if it's every two years, you could miss really having input. And I think it might be important to keep it on a rotating yearly, you know, on a yearly basis. So the other thing is that in many councils, the rules of procedures are adopted at the first council meeting of the new term as a complete re-adoption because the council is a new council. And the new council can set its own rules if you think about it at the federal government at the state government, that's what happens. And so what we could do with this is propose a recommendation for the new rules of procedure for the new council that they can look at and be sent prior to swearing in and then at that first meeting they could adopt the new rules. I know the Springfield has its own way of doing it. This is our first transition where we have to decide whether, essentially, we're going to just as a council as a whole body of a council, not re-adopt rules as a new adoption or adopt rules as a new adoption. What that process is, which way we go in terms of it's a new council, do they vote their new rules or do they just ignore a new vote and go forward with whatever was adopted by the prior council? And so a recommendation to this council or even to the next council on which way to go along potentially, here's our experience, here's changes we'd make to the current rules if you're going to adopt new might be helpful. So you're suggesting a recommendation here one way or the other. I like the idea of the rules as they currently stand being sent to new members of the incoming members of the council so they can review. It makes sense then that you'd have some knowledge based to make a vote on. So I like that idea. And you like the idea of them voting on them at the beginning. So they obviously have seen them and then they would vote on them. I guess my concern is, and just it may just be the nature of things. There's nothing you can do about it is that a group of people who've had, there's so many of them are saying, well, I don't know how many but maybe a majority of them have had no experience with the council and how it runs. Deciding to revise their rules on the fly. So they wouldn't want to end up doing it in a meeting, probably they would probably send it to GL. But I assume they'd send it with some recommendations or thoughts. I don't know I just given the complexity of what we do and is this where you want to start your, your first month in office is. I don't know I'm asking I'm thinking out loud Mandy. So I think Springfield has, like I think we can look towards other city councils for transition procedures and I'm not saying Springfield is the best, but Springfield has essentially a retreat in December for the new council. The new council is not sworn it doesn't matter. There's no, you know, open meeting law issues in terms of deliberations or anything. I think they have it as an open meeting I'm not sure but you know there's, you know, our term ends. A new council hasn't started we all get sworn in again if we're continuing on there's there's no quorum issues or things. And at that meeting they really discussed what changes they might want to the rules so that it's ready to go on the first night. I'm not saying that's a process to adopt but I think we should look at, especially since since we are governance. How to do rules in the transition and make a recommendation to both this current council and the fellow counselors and that do we have a transition committee I think Lynn and Paul are dealing with transition items to them about transition meetings. And what needs to be on there for stuff. Good. I'm going to just take some notes as we go along here. What I'm hearing. Whoops. What's the matter, George. No, I'm just making some changes to this bear with me. What I'm hearing here and please speak up is that the chair should reach out to the president about transition process. Okay. The thought would be something along the lines where Mandy has suggested what they have in mind but the rules of procedure and be about the rules of procedure. And that this would be something that they certainly should get in advance. And if a retreat were being considered or some kind of gathering prior to swearing in that would be a major. Major item of discussion amongst them. So it sounds like the chair should at least pursue that with the president. Yes. Okay, fair enough. And any other thoughts on that. And here what we've suggested is that Athena might have thought she raised her hand. Oh, I'm sorry, please go ahead. Thank you for letting me jump in. We have been having conversations about what needs to be transmitted to the new council and when we're looking at having a council orientation on December 13th. And part of what we would make sure that everyone has access to, in addition to the technology that people might need as access to the documents that councils adopted the town managers goals, the policies that have been adopted, including the rules. If your, your ideas for the new council to adopt the rules over again, that would be good to add to our, our planning for the first council meeting in January. But there's been, and maybe this is not a fair question for you, Athena, but at least in your knowledge experience today, there's been no discussion of any kind of retreat or any kind of gathering of the body prior to this is more a matter of making sure they get information. The orientation that we're talking about in December on the 13th. Yeah. That would be to make sure everyone has access to those documents like I said, And then give, give some information about the, we did an open meeting law and public records law and Okay. And the other thing with Lauren Goldberg from KP law last time so we're looking to see if that would be helpful but I think any ideas that that GOL has or any counselor has about what would be really helpful for the new council where they're sworn in. And then what they think might need to go on that first agenda in January when they're actually seated would be really helpful to learn and me. Okay. Darcy. Yes, I'm thinking that that makes sense that the, the, you know, I think part of what you're getting at George is that the council needs to look at in the context of the rules we need to look at, whether we want to change some structures. Or I should say you want to change some structure that that will help make the job manageable. And so that that is something that you'll want to do before the end of this term. Or I mean obviously the new council can do it too, but you might want to make recommendations before the end of this term about, you know, basic things about the committee structure and, you know, whether there's things that we just shouldn't do anymore because they just take up so much time, whatever. So, yeah, I think that's a big, big, big issue. And aside from that, I think that obviously, probably substantively more important to the new council group than the, because the rules of procedure and our processes and whatnot is the time manager bowls as Athena said, because they're, they're going to want to look at that and see if they want to tweak them whatever. And so that that'll be probably more. I mean, that's more substantive obviously for them to look at. So, as we go through this list. Again, please correct me or speak up if you have something to add or something doesn't look right to you but obviously I will update this on our website. I will draft a description of the GOL chair duties for our next meeting. I will reach out to the president and talk about the transition process and discuss what role if any. Let's talk about the rules of procedure. And. Okay. Item four. This is something in my own mind is, is now pretty fuzzy, actually. This process of evaluation gold setting. It seems to really lie with this committee, which is okay by me, but may not be okay with anybody else. It seems to fall largely on the president's shoulders. I'm not sure that's either good or bad I don't know what I guess my question and maybe not for discussion today but at some point from our perspective as GOL, what actually is our role. As we described. Do we have a role. And we did seem to play an important role in the goal setting. Is that something we've agreed to do that every two years. So I guess there's just some lack of clarity in my mind that I just would like to have it settled. There are some documents that exist that I just need to reread and maybe then put as part of our final packet. But in my mind at the moment, I personally, I'm not clear on what our actual role is and how to describe that to say a future GOL member they came up to me and said well I'm now chair of GOL. What's how does it what's this time manager evaluation gold setting thing and what are we supposed to do. I'm going to need some advice or help here or some guidance. If only to documents we've already created that I've just forgotten about, or we're going to have to create something, or we're going to have to say we don't have a role here. It's really the function of the president. I'm sorry. Is it in our charge. Good question. That's something I haven't looked at a while. I just want to look actually stop sharing for a moment. We'll come back to this. And let's just take a look at our charge. It is not. Let's just take a quick look. But annually review the town council rules of procedure is so that's where that comes in. That's where it comes from. Right. Okay, I had it. Okay, originally had it in its charge. I remember that. I think maybe I'm the only one but I get a feeling I'm not that there's still some, at least in lack of clarity about what role if any G a well plays in this. And our charge doesn't seem to. So I think it's something we need to try and clarify, and I can certainly raise that with the president as well, but I think it's also an issue for us as a committee. Yeah, I think there was an order at some point. There was a, either a referral order, giving us. Right. I think that probably the goals, the goal setting was certainly referred to us and maybe also so it might have been referred by, by council. But it wasn't, you know, in a sense of and you will show do this going forward from all all time. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it wasn't. I don't think it's not in our charge. So if it was there should be an advisor charge to put it in. Okay, so that's something that I it's just I will continue to explore and that next meeting will hopefully have some input. And five is the seven documents already mentioned. And then finally, this was raised near the end of our time as a to well committee recently the idea of perhaps training. And I think there's at least one new member of the council that is interested in this and maybe we'll just leave that for the new council to and the new GOL to ponder. At this point, I certainly don't have a bandwidth for this. We could make it as simply in our final report, say that GOL might want to consider possible trainings. I believe this is related to bias was the general thrust. Any thoughts on this, or do you want to just leave it and it'll be up to some future body or some future council members to take it up if they wish. But we don't need to decide this moment, but that's my list of seven things that I could think of. So, any thoughts on this. Some of this will be a future future attend items perhaps the next meeting. Anything you'd like not to be brought to us to be discussed. So, I think that's a good question. I'm not sure we have any great insight into this, but it might be worth some time. Since we have at least four of us who've had three years of experience and the challenges that the job poses and in terms of time management and manageability, and it's certainly, I think, then to some a barrier to considering even running for this position. To talk a little bit about it and see if we have any suggestions to make. Or do you think at this point, we've made all the suggestions we can make we tried to take it with time limits a little bit. We've made little, you know, changes around the edges but nothing really substantive. And maybe there is nothing substantive we can do. Pat. I think I don't know how to make our job more manageable but I have been thinking, often on for a while that the council actually needs to meet three times a month, not twice a month. It seems to me that agendas get amazingly clogged with important materials. So I, I, you know, and maybe one of those meetings could be set aside for I'm not even sure what but you know maybe it could be a regular meeting time where a certain thing happens that allows us to deal with agendas or, or is more, I don't know. I really don't know but I think that meeting more frequently, but then really controlling meeting time could be an important thing. I think these are good. I mean, I just, that's what I'm really I'm just looking for thoughts. Yeah, as well as good as you're going to get from me today. It's better than I've got so this is what I'm looking for. And these would just be suggestions or things to think about. We could try to refine them or talk more about them or we could just say, you know, we don't really have any brilliant ideas here but here's some suggestions. Well, all of us are fine five hour meetings four and a half hour meetings, even for our meetings to be, you know, we manage it but it's quite onerous. I think we often find agendas are just just absolutely packed to the gills. And it's not pointing the finger blame here it seems just the way it's been it's not like people are making stuff up for us to do. So someone did ask me on like a month ago, you know, who did all this work before there was a council. You know, I'm a issue to select board but I don't I didn't get the sense that select board felt had quite this level of just sheer amount of time and complexity of genders. It's partly about in fact there's 13 members that also is a challenge, but I thought it was an interesting question to which I did not have an answer which is, you know, well, we did all this work that you guys have been doing before you were in existence. Good question. Yeah. And I believe it is work we're making for ourselves that we should, you know, not be doing how much of it is a function of perhaps tighter agendas or I don't know, I just don't know. It does feel to me at times that our agendas are just, there's just way too much. And sometimes some issue just people just take off the group takes off on it, and it's two hours later. And, and what can you do I mean it for whatever reason that particular topic or issue generated a huge amount of discussion and debate. And you know what was a single item now took up two hours. So there's sometimes just things get out of control but any other thoughts just off the top of your heads things that could make this job more manageable. You know, the idea of meeting more often. Trying to have shorter agendas. Darcy. I've been thinking lately that the Council should of the four major committees. It would make sense, instead of having five members to have three members and that every council person be on one committee. And so then, then, you know, the, I feel like I'm on two committees right now. That's a lot to do. And I am not currently the chair of either one of those committees. That's an intense amount of work for somebody who might be the chair of one committee and then also have to be on another committee and do all the prep and so on. So I, you know, I've often thought that when we're in a meeting that it could definitely be conducted with just three people, and you could get through stuff faster. And then, if the president weren't on a committee and well counselors that would mean everybody was on one committee of three people. And, you know, maybe they could rotate once a year or something like that but I just feel like that would equalize things to some extent and it would also, you know, be less work to be less work because all of us would only have one committee. And then maybe the recommendations wouldn't hold quite so much weight, you know, so it would be more on the full council. Maybe they would I don't know, but I just feel like that would lighten the load quite a bit. Okay. Any other thoughts. How much stomach is there for doing this as an agenda item are next or very soon future to you want me. And that's a question. I don't, you know, and the purpose would be to then recommend to the full council or what. Yeah, it would be part of our final report, you know, sort of to the council and to the future council. We had suggestions and again maybe at this point it's just it's just more than we can handle but because the suggestions you've made Darcy are interesting ones but it and it could take us a number of meetings to work our way through all the implications and we could just like put them out there for the future council and future geo well to consider. You know, here are some of the issues that we have faced. And here are a couple of ideas we have about how to solve them but we're not going to make any recommendations I think probably it's unlikely we as a committee are at this at the point now, where we can actually make specific recommendations but we could offer some food for thought. The committee would have to agree I mean if people are unhappy with it then, you know, or maybe could just be couched as you know, we've had a discussion, and here are some things that various members have suggested. We're not recommending these are not we're just saying here's some things for people to think about. As we pass our, you know as we go on to a next or a second council. And people can think about this over the next two weeks and maybe come back with some more thoughts or ideas. And the question is, do you want to pursue this, or do you want to just leave it alone. We've got a couple of interesting ideas here already, but. So, that's my question. I feel like this is, is, you know, like if every all the all four of the committees do this type of thing that that is not a good use of time, because it's going to be duplicative. And why, why don't we just recommend to the president that she reach out to all of us for our ideas. If we have ones that are specific to GOL that's different, but if they're general ideas, then it seems like we should all be sharing them in some way or another, so that we can look at each other's or whatever. The chair of GOL could solicit that I mean I do think that it is part of our function as GOL to to raise these kinds of questions and think about them as a committee. But your point is well taken that we should notify the president and certainly the council that we are considering this and if people have suggestions or ideas they should send them to us. And the chair I guess would put them into a final document that then would be passed on to the future council. And maybe also to the future GOL committee as well. And they can do with it what they wish. I think that that certainly the next council is going to be looking to us for. First of all, they're going to expect and hopefully we'll get from each of the other four committees. A fairly clear sense of, you know, what their policies and procedures are in black and white, what the chair duties are, and so they don't reinvent the wheel. So that's a set of rules of procedure that they will have an advance to look at and hopefully won't take away too much but that's the you know, ultimately it's their choice, but they're looking for that they expect that that's what they're going to get. Do we also want to add to that some thoughts about ways to make this job more manageable is really what I'm asking us. And I could reach out to all counselors and ask them to, if they have thoughts to submit them, and then we could mull over those at a future meeting. And, and then I could craft some kind of just general document on that particular question. Because I think that's something that that a lot of us have been thinking about a lot of us have some ideas about, and a future council certainly might benefit from our, you know, quote unquote wisdom, or at least our ideas. But they wouldn't be specific recommendations it wouldn't be something we vote on it would just be you know here's some things that we have come up with or that have been suggested to us by our colleagues around this particular issue of time commitment. And I think we want some meetings, length of, and the job, making it manageable. Do you want me to send out to all of our colleagues. A notice that we're pondering this we're going to discuss this at our next or some very soon future meeting I would suggest our next meeting, and that if they have any thoughts, we would welcome them, and I would make them available to us all in advance. Do you think that's a good idea. George if I may, please, Athena. I know that the Lynn did solicit input from the council, she's in Danny mill back on October 15th asking for input about what was useful to you as a new council to start to determine so on and the plan for the program for swearing and the first meeting with council and so on so she has solicited input from from all counselors. So that's already been done so she did this October 13. I didn't know that either. She sent it October 15 she asked for feedback by the 22nd, I'm sure she would be. I want to speak for her but I'm sure she would be willing to accept feedback after that date. Okay, so that's again perhaps something I should again I can reach out to her and see what she thinks about that but sounds like that she's already made this request. And so she may have some stuff already. Okay. I will raise that with her and for the moment that I'm not going to put this on an agenda unless I hear otherwise from my colleagues. Any other thoughts are on this item. Stop sharing screen. And Athena you probably sent the minutes but I don't have them so I did not get around to them. So, I don't have the October 20 minutes to share with you. So, it'll be the next meeting. I don't have anything unanticipated 48 hours in advance. And I, let's see who we got here in a way we have one attendee. So we do have one member of the public presence. If they wish to speak, they simply need to raise their hand. So this is the period for public comment on anything that relates to GOL and our business. Seeing no hands raised. Discuss the future agenda items so slightly out of order there I apologize for doing nine after 10 but future agenda items. Mandy, anything that you will might be getting in the way of zoning bylaws or any kinds of bylaws, please. So everything that's been referred. So that's parking access and regulation that's mixed use buildings that's the overlay parking facility overlay district. And that is the temporary zoning extension which is a one word change to article 14. Well one number change it changes the number 2021 to 2022. The PRC has added a meeting in on November 16. So hopefully we will that evening, it's an evening meeting, starting at 7pm, be able to forward you a number of recommendations, at least two, if not three or four, by the end of that meeting. So I would request that at least they be put on the GOL's November 17 agenda as a precaution in. We won't know exactly what is recommended until the 16th at night, we might have some on the ninth, because we have a meeting on the ninth to most of them have been through attorney review. So I will, I'm a bit behind in that George I will send you emails I have from KP law on those bylaws. Yeah, because usually one of the thick, the clog points one of the points is the legal review and your feeling is that. So do you have a rough idea of how many are we looking at two, three, four, this is four different bylaws. Yeah, four bylaws parking access and regulation has been sent off to KP law for attorney review even though it hasn't had a hearing at CRC yet. Or a second hearing mixed use buildings is back. Again, none of these have had recommendations from CRC yet we're still in the middle of that process but the attorney has reviewed them. The only one that has not been sent to CR to attorney review is the temporary zoning extension again that is a one word slash number change it is changing the year 2021 to the year 2022. I wonder if that even needs the attorney review. I'm not sure it does. But there are four zoning amendments that are in CRC right now. One hearing is concluded three hearings are two hearings begin on the ninth one continues to the ninth. So by the 16th, I'll have better idea on the ninth but how far we can get and what is done and what is coming in on the 16th that might be there for the 17th. We're obviously because we're adding the meetings in trying to get everything to GL no later than the December 1st GL meeting. But hopefully some of it can be done on the 17, even though we might not be finished with them until the 16th in the evening. And do any of these have any what GL reviews them and then they go to the council. Yeah, for two readings and those are the last two meetings of the council's term is that correct. So the council meets on the 15th, the 22nd of November and then December. Yeah, I have on the screen. I hope you can see it right. So am I missing any dates I don't I think that I know of so that that's why we've added a meeting in on the 16th to try and be sure that all of CRC's recommendations can be done no later than your December 1st meeting than the GL December 1st meeting. Okay, so okay and that would still allow for some of them to be done on the 17. So for my for the rest of the committee, we do expect to see some perhaps ultimately for zoning bylaws for our review, either on the 17th or December 1st. I'm not aware of any other proclamations or resolutions anyone aware of anything out there that might be coming away. This is just a follow up question for you George we finished our bylaws for future consideration review. There were a couple in there that were recommended to be rescinded I believe. Right, you know that had some action attached to them that would be bylaw action, which would again need to readings at the council because they're bylaws. So what if you could as chair. Yes, notify the president which ones those are to get them on the December 6 and December 20 meetings. Okay. Okay. Anything else that people are aware of that might be coming our way. All right. So, we have no public comment as we've just seen. Unless there's anything else people want to raise. I'm prepared to turn this meeting at 12. 18 p.m. Thank you. All right.