 This is our e-reader panel and I want to thank them all for participating. I know they've all had some feelings for us in various ways And so they're gonna talk about that and all of their stuff if they have a handout will be posted online So you can find all out there. Diana Weaver is the director at Baser's Community Library and Baser That's the name right? Yes Jeff Tate is the Digital Neighborhood Library here at Topeka Publing A job he's been in for about a year and a half, two years, a while A year and a half Oh, man, I was trying to get time Jack Granite is the branch manager for them. It's not Argentinian South of Casey K. Publing Brad Allen is the director at the last public and Alex Mudd is a assistant professor Referenced an instruction. I'm not comfortable with the term. He's a librarian at Emporio State and so they are also doing something on campus So we've got a little bit of everything here Large libraries, smaller libraries and academic libraries. So I'm a little like Diana Sturkel and no questions So at Baser we've been circulating e-readers preloaded with content for about a year We have ten different devices We have Kindles, noot colors. We have a Kobo Two Barnes and Noble noot touches and two Sony readers and the reason why we have such a variety is that It started with a tech toolbox that was purchased Short time before I became director of the library and we after the staff used it a little bit We actually started a community users group and we invited members of the community Come in be part of an eight-week experiment where we used all of these devices in a Program that we kind of modeled after American Idol We you know auditioned them all and saw which ones we liked about which one was better for the reading experience which one was easiest to shop with which ones easiest to read on the comfort level and and then after we did that with the Community focus group we had these devices and so we decided we would go ahead and start checking them out So we check them out in bags like this, which is you can buy from Amazon for about ten or fifteen dollars And I'll pass this around but what we have in them is the device itself, which we barcode and check out We have a users agreement, which I'll talk about a little bit more about in a minute We have the startup guide that comes with each of the device and then Side pocket we've got Core that goes with it. So When we started to do go ahead and do this I did a lot of research on users agreements And I found some really long ones some of them five to seven pages And I really wanted something that was like one half of a sheet of paper Maybe front and back that could go easily into the package So I'm going to go ahead and pass this around so you can look at it But our service agreement basically says that The patron understands that they're responsible for any information that they put on the device They have it they put bookmarks Logins to Wi-Fi spots and that kind of stuff. It's their responsibility to take it off We're not going to be responsible for it If heaven forbid they were silly enough to put their credit card information on it We're not responsible. The users agreement said, please don't do this If the device was damaged during the time it's checked out the cost replaces hundred twenty five dollars Charging the charging cables ten dollars to replace the bag to replace the fifteen dollars There's a twenty dollar fee if you would put it in the drop box. Don't do that We'll charge twenty dollars if you do that So and only use the power adapter and cable for charging and then we check these out for two weeks with two renewals So we check them out just about the same as an audio book Because and really when you there's the prices coming down there some of them are cheaper than some of the audio books that you buy So and then on the back we keep their name and their library card number when it comes back We check make sure everything's there make sure they didn't put anything on it or delete anything off of it And that's all we do and then we get ready to check it back out As far as content we Loaded content on them As in the first at first we loaded different series on them because that was one way that we found we could really market it So we loaded the Hunger Games series on them So when they come and they'd say well, I'm ready for the second book of Hunger Games Where am I on the hold list? Well, you're number 23 on the hold list But we have them all loaded on this device Would you like to try the Kindle would you like to try and up and people were really excited about that And we did it with the 50 shades of gray as well, and of course that was really exciting for people So and then we've also loaded themes on to them like Nicholas Sparks type light romances mystery theme Harlequin books are really cheap to buy so we have a harlequin theme I manage the content Through online accounts like Amazon.com account Barnes and Noble account that way you can kind of send what you want I don't want to load these things up with 50 titles because that's Overwhelming for people as well as they can't read them all in that blink of time So I try to manage that through the online account. It's a lot easier than trying to manage it from the devices I think if I were to do it over again or as start from finish start the project I would pick one single device like all candles are all nooks just because if you want to Buy the Hunger Games for instance. You have to buy it for the Amazon For the candle you have to buy it for you know, so you have to repurchase because you can't Buy one and use it on multiple devices. There is a software called caliber that you can use to kind of Go around that but it doesn't always work and it doesn't work with candles When you start the program you have to Have an email address. So I just set up a High-tech at baser library Dot-a-word email account just for all of our devices You have to have a credit card attached to them You just have to that's part of the way when you just like when you do your kindle for yourself You have to have an email address or a credit card So what I did I just went to Walmart and bought a $25 Visa card and attached that to the devices to the account And it's long and long since expired, but I use gift cards now to add content on them We're gonna mark it we've had 136 checkouts since we've had them in the year that we've had them We're things have kind of tapered off So we're gonna Big have a big push this summer on take the reader for vacation with you because to me That's what you readers are great for is taking them on vacation The way I look at it is that this is a service to the community It's a way for people to learn about E-readers and nooks and all these things that they hear about So I'm not too worried about all the copyright. It's like Desmond said this morning, you know It's not that big of a deal. Are they really going to come after me? I'm not really too worried about it So we do it from an educational point of view and it's really fun Just to say to somebody. Oh, you ought to try and Kindle and I've always wanted to try a candle and so they try it they come back Some people will say I went out and bought one This is the greatest thing ever and other people will come back and say, you know, this was great Thank you, but I'd really rather have a book. So I Think that's about all I have I'm Jeff Tate. I'm a big public library. We have a smaller program When we were looking at circulating e-readers We decided that we didn't want to invest and the amount of Devices it was going to take to circulate for all of our population was gonna be a little bit more than what we wanted to spend so we decided to Kind of look at a small pilot project to see if we need to be popular here in Tepica And as I was looking at sort of where to start the pilot What the initial Reasons that we thought that would be nice to get Any readers that you can change the font it's smaller. You can store a bunch of books on it So we have a department called red carpet. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's actually They deal with homebound patrons nursing homes Excuse me Individuals with vision problems things like that. So we thought that would be a natural department. They also have the large print books To kind of start the pilot there because that seemed to be a natural fit for us to take an e-reader out To those individuals and then all of a sudden our retired collection is now open to them because Not every book is printed in large print Not every book that you can sort of get in large print you can actually hold because it's just super big So we started a new project We bought 15 simple touch nooks. We got also got fancy bags with the Connector in there. We have instructions. We have a survey and The nice thing about the red carpet pilot is that we also the staff that are doing it We wanted to make it easy for For staff we didn't want to have to go through the process of hooking things up with a visa and wiping the devices off So the red carpet staff already deal with adaptation devices and magnifiers and so they're kind of used to that So there would be a good sort of thing to start with we also As I was doing research found out that Barnes and Noble actually has this program called business the business It's designed for sort of administrative where You know the heads of the company could push out books to managers and things like that. So what happens is Staff actually don't really anything with the devices as far as putting content on them What we do is we just order books straight from Barnes and Noble and they do the business the business program they Wiresly send it to the device so the next time you turn on the the simple touch. It just starts downloading So it makes it very nice. We don't have to worry about if Somebody were they also locked the devices down. So there really is no way well And there is probably a way that they can Wipe out the devices But theoretically they shouldn't get in be able to do anything other than Get to the book and then read it The shop is locked down the internet locked down. It's very much just here's the e-reader Find the book you like and start reading We also thought that would be You know with a tablet or with some devices there just a lot to do and we thought Keeping it simple keeping it sort of just in that reading getting the books sort of philosophy would be much easier than Trying to come up with instructions on how to download apps and get to overdrive and so far It's been working really well with that So the business the business Program It's nice because it locks everything down. We don't have to really worry about that. We also get content We don't have to worry about some of those legal gray areas because Barnes and Noble works with us So they know that we're blending these devices out so Management was happy to you know kind of go that direction as well So we've been circulating the 15 e-readers since February well March First probably when they got started circulating. We've had 32 checkouts For the 15 devices, which is actually pretty good when each device is circulated for roughly two weeks The red carpet actually they have a schedule when they go out to the different nursing homes and things Every two weeks instead of three weeks. Otherwise they can have as long as they want and so far Customers love it for the reasons that we thought they would Now have access to Big books like the passage the vampire novel and which in a large print is just like And they can hold it in their hands and you know and they can read that also they can get like the 50 shades of gray And so yeah, and then we actually kind of went a different way we wanted to give them instead of doing Eames we decided let's just give them everything and they just so that each person could find something that they Kind of might like so we actually bought 73 but 73 titles on each device That's just the amount we could get for the 6000 that we initially earmarked for the for the project And that and work with the same selectors that did the the large print or large print ordering So they knew what these customers already wanted and what they Couldn't get and what they might like so it has all the popular titles all the big Books that you just couldn't read so it was very nice to have a Dedicated group of staff who kind of knew what the customers work for So all in all it's it's going real well staff like it our customers are really raving the next step is To sort of take it out of the red carpet Environment and sort of figure out a way to push it out to To library users We're thinking You know, we're not sure if we're ready to go that full step buying a lot of devices that get Obsolete the moment you take them out of the box is Not really a road we want to take right now. So it's how do we get that same sort of segment of the population. We know there's a lot of people that read carpet Doesn't get to that might use the devices for the same Reason because they're they're lightweight and they use large print But how do you put something, you know, circulating without saying hey, this is only for You must be this age-impaired So, you know, there's some some challenges when it comes to Sort of going to that to Lord's scale, but we're giving it some time on the pilot project That's pretty much feel we can Kansas City, Kansas we were building a new branch called the South Branch and The community raised two million dollars of the six million total for that And so we were going to do pretty much anything they asked of us to do and they made it really clear that they wanted us to Circulate e-readers. So we did that we bought ten nooks and we pre-loaded them with Content divided by genre for the most part that we have two nooks that are grab bags so we opened it 26 and So that's about seven months and they had circulated 63 times those ten nooks of 6.3 or not Which was about twice the the rate that Philadelphia Served in a similar period of time. So I think we're doing okay that they were not too happy with their their service But we serve them for three weeks. So you can kind of do the math and that so, you know, that's pretty good They're out most of the time. I Just kind of want to walk through the decisions that we had to make and putting the cell program together Obviously the first one is what hardware are you going to buy? We went with the nooks Largely because it was the cheapest we were thinking in terms of replacement costs. We wanted to keep that price as low as possible You could get a color you can go up to tablets and such and obviously candles, but all of that cost more So we want the cheapest Just in terms of replacement costs To what Jeff was talking about the difference between or the the business to business model Is another decision that you have to make because the alternative to that is the the consumer managed content model Where you use your credit card and all that so there's two different models with the nook that you have those options the advantage the consumer Model is that you can take one title and put it on multiple devices I couldn't get a straight answer from Barnes and Noble about how many you're allowed to put it up But I did see mentor public library in Ohio was putting it on six different devices one title on six different devices that'll be a pretty big advantage, but we went with the other route because We we wanted to be able to just back some of her disorder they loaded for us No credit card involved and a lot easier for acquisitions as well. So That's what we went with Both models it's important that the content stays with your account now with the device So you lose the device they can break that and move it on to another device You're not really when you're circulating enough with lots of material on it. You're not at risk of losing all of that material So the next thing to decide is the accessories that go with it And the most important of those is probably the warranty the way Barnes and Noble works your They're gonna replace your device no questions asked not if it's lost, but if it's damaged One time within the period of the warranty. We went with a shorter one of two years thinking they're gonna get lost eventually But you know it goes up from two to five years, I think and it gets more expensive as it goes We bought the adapter and we have a neoprene case That Wall adapter so you can power it straight from the wall. You don't need to have a computer But they are the neatest thing is you might have seen these on the internet. We're using gun cases Which is good for laughing and purchasing department calls to ask about that one that when paperwork goes through on that $7.50 as opposed to auto boxes for electronics costs much more than that And they're very they're very light. So I do recommend these They're they're kind of hard to open not good for folks in arthritis. So that is the main drawback there All the drawing up the policies The user agreement is there's a lot of decision-making that goes into that I don't want to repeat everything, but can they return it in the book drop? How long are they? Are they holdable? What's the checkout period late fees? Who are the eligible users? Prohibit people from changing settings and side-loading content How are you gonna put the big record together? We have all the content in the 505 field Which is searchable kind of sort of but not perfect not as good as searching a regular book Statistics, you know, you're circulating 20 titles so far when you check out one book so if you if you did a whole lot of this that might be kind of throwing off your statistics and then Advertising and training both the public and staff those are definitely necessary So I think those are all the kind of steps we went through and thinking thinking it through the problems that we've had so far You know, we kept thinking of these things are going to get lost and stolen and none have so then That informed a lot of our decision-making and maybe it shouldn't have we've only had one major problem which Was what Jeff said can't happen and someone restored the factory settings and Knocked it out and it took a lot of work to get back To working shape Barnes and Noble head trouble Resetting for us Recharging the machines when they come back the staff training issue is kind of been a problem mainly because if you turn on that Wi-Fi switch It kills battery in three or four days as opposed to two months with the Wi-Fi off I would say though the last thing it's not really a problem But we invested in access 360 at the same time that we did this and they're not in they're not Incompatible exactly, but they're sort of philosophically and have all Rather than practically compatible So, you know, you can doubt you can't download Leo content onto these you can download EPO though We've had problems with it You can get a card that makes this It's called an end to a card turns it into an Android operating system and then you could download Leo So there are all these things, you know patrons want to take the books. I see in the catalog And put them on these and they can't always So the future of this kind of thing and especially with the nook if you if you read an article about nooks since Christmas It probably starts at the death Very poor sales So if you're deciding whether to invest in this I would take that into account There's a general belief Jim mentioned me last night right off the bat that you read is our transitional device When we were all we all want Devices that will act as an internet connection and a phone and not just an e-reader and we may move toward that And then there's the legality Which is just up in the air until there's a lawsuit and you know two libraries were sued By the National Federation for the blind And those were settled out of court, so it didn't establish any kind of precedent. It was a little surprising certainly unfortunate Well, I think everyone expected us to get sued by publishers not by the NFB, but that too, you know, are we allowed to do this? Still sort of needs to to be established by by the laws approach I guess was pretty slim simple and perhaps somewhat slap-dash We I've been at the library for almost a year at Lawrence Public Library and we had an e-reader kiosk Where we had one of each of these devices that we've been discussing at an iPad and people could kind of play with them And they were tethered and and I think the people who wanted to play with them had played with them And I don't know whether we received it. I think we received a grant to get four of each of these Three of each of these devices, so we had 12 No four of these there were four the iPads. We're not doing that So we had these things and they were sitting in our IT room and in the basement and our technical services person And I were sitting there looking at them and as people here had said The obsolescent cycle on these things are very short. And so we thought Maybe our public would want these instead of them rotting away down. They don't really rock their man classy Sitting down there to collecting dust and so we decided to just put a plan together. It's we feel like it was a resource It's one that we could leverage and so we just decided what would be the best strategy. So we had these devices It's it's again a bit of a corneacopia we have three nooks three of the Sony the ever-popular Sony reader and and Then the other one did I not say Kendall whatever the other one is those we have three of Four of each of those a total of 12 devices and so we got together with our collection management Team to decide how what what what kind of money we wanted to spend how we wanted to do it? We had heard a lot of the things about whether you were Violating the terms of use, you know the the rule of six is you could pretty much just have you can only have if Say you have six devices with the Amazon or nook or whatever. That's the max. They'll let you use on a customer license It's certainly not within the spirit of checking them out to do that. So we elected not to really push the envelope Just in consideration of feeling that we were looking at it. I'd have been the open library Idea we purchased something we put it on a device. We're giving it to you. You're giving it back We felt like that that was right in for sale. And so that was why we took that method and didn't really push into trying to put Six on there people have this is like third-hand information. I'm giving you now But people have said that they have talked to Barnes and Noble and Amazon and they don't care So take that for what it's worth So we would like to not really go that route And so we have we have a couple for children. We have a couple for teens We have we have an NPR one people like NPR and Lawrence and so books are recommended them They have we have one of those ever romance one. We have a mystery one. So just kind of your basic genres We had our collection development people put together these lists the most popular ones are the best-seller ones And we have about I think every one of them is checked out right now pretty much all of them So I don't I don't have one to show you We the boxes they came in we just put Really heavy-duty clear tape on them and are using them and they It was free, but we like those cases a lot We're probably gonna get the cases like Diana had I would say Diana's it was a great help to us We we picked her brain a lot because we felt that baser had a really successful program and simple approach So we like to seem like they were having a success and we decided we would just do something very similar We see it very much as a pilot. I mean we Right now, you know if you look at it traditionally where our whole ratio is not where we would want it to be But we're not Certain if we really want to buy more at this point it really just an experiment with resources that we're sitting around that Overall, I think they're popular. I think of them as an educational tool as well people can see whether it's something that makes sense to them and My initial attempt was a thumbing of my nose my Idiom Look willism at the publishers. I wanted to have a McMillan one and assignment issues Are much more calm and deliberative staff advise me that we might want to have a more systematic approach But but frankly when you look at it from a collection development issue and you're looking about providing e-book content to people when you Can buy a book for 10 to $15 instead of 80 and any reader costs 60 bucks 70 bucks What's a return on investment? So we're just kind of experimenting right now. I mean I think I Don't care whether they're transitional devices. I think Books are a transitional device. I think eight tracks Transitional device so we're constantly in flux and that's the world as it exists and We feel like this is serving our users and we we are not certain where the future is although We do have one thing coming up that we think is going to be kind of fun since we We deliberately control the content and one thing that I really wanted to me where this would work Perfectly or what I would like is if the person could check the reader out and go home Decide something they want to read call us and we have magically put it on that for them But the way that we have to lock them down so people don't do whatever it is that they might do We can't really figure that out. So we're trying to figure out a approximate Brad's dream of e-books If you will and and so what we've decided to do we we got a grant Grow what we're we haven't figured out the right name yet We have competing names one is everyone's e-reader or the community e-reader But this one when you when we accumulate or aggregate the hold list each time you get it Whatever you want to read we're going to put it on it Then then when you return it whatever the next person wants we're going to put it on it And then we're going to buy like a $500 gift card for each of the two readers And then when that money is gone from whether it's no curve Kindle or whatever There would be a community bill e-reader that has content that was driven entirely by Customers so it will be we're seeing as kind of like an art installation thing as well just to make it community driven and Giving people really what they want when they have the device we haven't worked out Please do please do it kind of Did you come up with somebody came up that was a good idea? I don't know who was I'll say it was Karen But anyway, we're excited about we just are trying to have fun My turn out we had a net we originally we bought several and no colors But we did not have the intention of actually using them as e-readers Our original plan was to just avoid a bunch of warranties and just install An actual Android operating system on them and use them instruction sessions So the students would have you know small portable device and they'd be able to access the internet they'd be able to access our Databases provided through us or provided through the state library as we deliver information literacy instruction And So the nook is relatively inexpensive compared to most other small tablet devices the problem that we got into was that the The student population at Emporia State Coming you know many come from rural communities The you know and the Android or that the notes when we got them were sort of because we got these about a year and a half ago We're so sort of at the time bleeding edge technologies that most of our students had no Experience with tablets in general with the Android operating system in Specifically, especially because it was so new so it was a pretty terrible user experience for them I Still I think I have one of the the rooted ones in my in my car at the moment Because it is charging because it is dead But eventually what we did decide to do was we had all these notes and Not the best experience instruction to go ahead and take some said hadn't been rooted and Check them out to the public. Sorry. No, we've had I'm circulating for the last year And they have been checked up pretty much consistently We didn't put a lot of limitations on renewals and that sort of thing though, so In theory students could check them out repeatedly and just continue to renew it indefinitely So I've never actually seen one I started in August after classes has started. I think there was one left And I have not seen any of them since So I've been working there eight or nine months now, and I've never seen one other than the ones we still have in the back The nook is as as was mentioned we Talk to Barnes and Noble Like most things in higher education everything's done by committee so the committee was a task force was put together to to explore all this and They talked to Barnes and Noble and Barnes and Noble says that they don't care So we have five circulating and they have five licenses Five five copies of the Those are the terms that Barnes and Noble said that they were okay with So so far it's been successful One of the things we're looking at in the future is Depending on how this goes To just go ahead and root them all and then circulate them that way Which sort of gives them, you know if Barnes and Noble were to go bankrupt or to discontinue the nook and The nook was to die. We still have inexpensive Android tablets floating around for our students that are sort of Platform agnostic. So if we root it out, it's just the Android operating system You can install the Kindle app that you could install a nook app Another way to get to free in-cloud library here in the state of Kansas You know somebody could put in overdrive if they wanted to do that And it's been sort of unusual seeing Our ureters there and it was unusual for me starting there because we have a popular fiction a browsing fiction collection and an academic library and I think that's sort of in the shift. We've been looking at in the past couple of years is not trying to keep up with You know, we are not a research institution So not having that collection focused library, but instead being very student focused and very service of this And students have students want browsing fiction, especially our undergraduate population And ebooks make a lot of sense for us given the number of people that do continuing education Through the university so making sure that not only are we providing ebooks providing a device that allows you to access those ebooks in a On a platform that's a little bit more friendly to use and a little more friendly to read from Given that Reading an ebook on a computer like an actual computer on a laptop on a desktop is the worst thing in the world And we've also sort of been concerned with Accessibility issues because it's it's a pretty major issue on In higher education making sure that students that that need that have accessibility issues Their needs can be met So we also have five iPad ones So there's any accessibility issues that we can always just load up whatever they want on our our first generation iPads Well, we kind of hold back our iPad twos that we also have For other stuff because they have cameras and we've been we've been trying out a few things down there the record the cameras The nice thing about the nook or the next thing I should say that we the iPad is that it is the increased accessibility for for For the blind or those that have some sort of vision impairment And I've been looking a lot at the we've been looking at the EPUB 3 format Which is they've been talking about a lot lately, which should be completely accessible. So instead of having to wait for an audio book of you know, I'm so sort of Audio book of 50 shades of gray to come out You're you can hear it the way it was intended, which was to have a computer read it to you So It's been a lot of fun sort of seeing how this has been working out but given the success of our e-readers, you know, especially students want to come in and check out 50 shades of gray and We have you know, we want to Give them what they want within reason. This has been this has been a nice way to do that This question based on technology that we wanted to try out for something else Some another project and just being able to use them for both things So it was even though the Android OS tablet Computer space for information literacy instruction didn't work out quite the way we wanted it to Fortunately, there's still a lot of there's still a lot of fun that can be had especially given the robust library here in the state of Kansas That is otherwise, you know for our students who may not have in an important library card The only way to get to that stuff would be through us and without making certain without making these devices available to our students the only way that they get able to access it would be on their desktop and I Would hate to ask them to do that We have Hey CK Yeah, the other libraries the other branches doing what you're doing They decided not to the original plan was that we were going to do it first and the other branches would then jump in and They're far more interested in the Axis 360 Product and so they decided not to invest in Trying to decide We're counting the device right now because we want to see how much they go through we're also keeping track On a separate so we could do both we're keeping track or we ask We're not keeping track because there's no real way to do that We ask the part of the survey that they tell us what they've read and that's more actually for collection development than it was Really for stats, but it's just to kind of see what they're reading and then suggestions for it So we actually have method to do both but for our purposes It's mainly just is it circulating once the device itself. We're not really too concerned How much they actually read on it other than for some collection development stuff They're use their end agreement you just file it away and you make a note of that on their Account now we just fine. Okay. So the next time they come in today So then when they come back in we pull it out of the file and we make sure everything's okay, and then that's it But they while they're standing there. We look we make sure things okay So if they come in two weeks later and want to check out another one We have to resign. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah We don't for a year. Okay, they sign and then you put a note in the account and it's good for a year And that Lawrence you mentioned locking down. Do you have the business business plan or we don't we just we I Wish I do this in more detail I believe we have an account for for each Reader has its own and separate account is the way that we did it rather than having one account spreading No, we just decided to make it clean And we just you know, we we have a library credit card that we buy lots of things from Amazon already And so we just use our life that question about that people have their library credit card Or I think they maybe send the invoice or actually this guy not certain the process on that but We just use the the customer one And we just manage them in-house Jeff do you have the same titles and all your Yeah, each device is set up the exact same You said like 73 73 titles we did on that So it's only been two months, but if it gets to be popular we'll do some more of the genre stuff but at this point we just wanted Since we kind of had it locked down quite a bit We just want to give them as much variety as we could so they could just go through and be guaranteed that they get No, they're just they're just children's books and teen books. So just interest, you know, if adults are Oh any of them, I you know, we don't really have any age restrictions on any on any of the collections We just we just decided to experiment and see whether Readers of whatever age of children's literature and teen literature had had any reader option And they're not quite as popular as the I mean the best seller one is the most popular the children ones are Little less popular. I wish I don't but we just wanted to have a breadth of materials available Besides the Lawrence public people will see your your option. Is anybody Currently considering expanding your e-book I'm not gonna buy any more I think that whoever said that their transitional is right I think, you know, research is showing that most people are buying tablets now that the e-book market is really falling off some 30% something So I don't think we'll be buying any more. I think we're at a point where we're gonna stay We have an iPad that we circulate in-house, but that's mostly because we have students There's the sixth graders get them now at school. And so We have them for the parents and great parents come in and look at them So they kind of know what's going on but We kind of set a threshold to where we didn't want to buy anything really expensive to circulate And so I don't see even those are ours are pretty old Probably won't buy any more except for replacement. I think we'll expand eventually How that'll look we're not sure I mean it's kind of young into pilot that's going well enough that will either make it a Permanent part of the red carbon service just because it fits so nicely with that demographic But it would be nice to offer The e-book content that we can't get right now so it you know until Publishers get on board which they're more and more certain to crack a little bit here in there I could see us getting some just to do and I like the The dedicated you're just for that because it would be more of just here's something to read It's not enough of the if you want the internet the table. I mean that's kind of the direction We'll continue adding content to the 10 that we have I think without purchasing more We're looking at you know the cost of tablets as they come down It'll be interesting if we can we can start investing in that My next step I hope will be we've really been playing around with access 360 there are a lot of steps involved in Finding getting an access 360 you find something in a public PDF format go through Adobe digital editions and get it onto this thing Getting our staff so that they could do that. You know get a couple of stations and Start emphasizing that I think Could you say a little bit about the axis 360? Axis 360 is a Baker and Taylor product downloadable ebooks, and now they've added audio and So if they have their own proprietary format called Leo that doesn't work on It's great in terms of the visuals and stuff like that whereas Especially the simple touches, you know, black and white The access 360 content can be used another device Access 360 it comes in different. It's usually in the I think it's always in a Leo format Which is the proprietary prepared proprietary format, but then it's often available also in e-pub Which you can put on a lot of different things and sometimes even a PDF. Oh That's all right. No, I think for me. I think we've got two different issues going on. We have people that You know that they want the convenience of getting the content at home And then we have people who they really just kind of want the experience of the e-reader or like and so for me I think it's that we have a lot of people that they just want to come in and Check out the e-reader and read things on a device with having the full of having the device I mean, I think there's actually more Desire for that than we perhaps realized and I do think it's a trial thing but also Even I think you know, I think Diane's point was great. Like we're you know, just thinking about it I remember when this came out, you know, I mean, I I think it was on my birthday in 2007 like it was a day that I was off work when it was during the week when it Google Amazon announced the Kindle they were $400 so I refuse to buy one But to me it was earth-shattering the way that an iPad iPod was for me like I'm the kind of guy Who's trying to figure out what 50 CDs I'm taking on a two-day trip with me and I didn't have to anymore And it was revolutionary and I think that's the same thing for e-readers, too And it's like if you want to cut you know, you take the e-reader even if it's just you need it for a little while So I don't know. I mean, we're trying to figure out what the way forward is and for me. I'm always I Value I'm a I say more times than that people care to hear I'm serious about stewardship of tax dollars and I'm always looking at the best way to leverage the money that is so precious That our communities give us and so any way I can get the best deal. I can that's why I'm looking for and currently the way That it works with overdrive with all these publishers. It's a terrible deal So I'm always looking for the best deal and this is one Could I ask you something? E-book kiosk at the library just briefly. What is it? Oh, it was just a Place where we had each of the readers and you could just play with them like that a few things Loaded on them and you could just kind of see how they work. They were just tethered to a Stand so and we took that down We're now in a tiny little space and it kind of served its purpose But and we repurposed the iPads in our our wonderful teen library and keep the care now And it's like can I have it and so we put it in a teen area and the kids play with it We bought another one so we have two there and we're looking at having those for in our children's area as well Just for interactive gaming kinds of things, but that's just an in-house thing I I believe that as a as a consumer item That a standalone e-reader is on its way out I would agree but I feel like that we're always talking about reading and I think it's fine to have a dedicated reader the same way that I Think chat is kind of on its way out, but it works really well for libraries in a way that we communicate on our web page I think Certain things that may be outmoded quite often can have have a very strong use Books There's so many words on the page In your children's section where you have iPads Do you have have you loaded on their books that are read to the kids? We don't have them. I think we don't they're not out yet They have all the apps There's so many books on the internet Yeah, they have that read books to you with sound effects and everything They put them in these great like foam Cases or something. I was like what does have to our iPads, but I guess those are our kids ones They're like in some foam block Fascinating Thank you to all the panel