 It looks like it's three, so we're gonna get started. First of all, welcome. This is a habit of an effective Drupal contributor with myself, Owen and Matthew Tift. So we're gonna take you on a journey of our contribution history and things we learned along the way. Yes. We thought we'd start with a thank you note. Thank you for coming rather than ending. We have a lot of thanks for the Drupal community, the Drupal Association, and if you're here, that means you're interested in contributing or maybe you're lost in the wrong room. Either way, thank you for coming. We're glad to have you here and I'll hand it over to Owen. Yeah, we're gonna be juggling the podium today, which is always gonna be great. So we want to try and inspire you and everyone to find out how to contribute. This is our take on the community. There are many takes on the community. There are many people in this community and everyone is different, but we're gonna try and aim to be slightly more interesting than the documentation. Maybe a little bit more human than the documentation and maybe fill in some gaps that are missing and we've got this snazzy icon that if you see that on the slide, you better prepare because there is a fun anecdote to tell you. But what we'd like you all to leave this talk with is a sense of how to look after yourself in the community, how to contribute meaningfully and generally how to interact with the community at large. So we're gonna tell you a little bit about ourselves first and then we'll get into the details. Owen made the slide. So my name is Matthew Tift. I'm a lead engineer at Lullabot and I have been doing lots of things in the Drupal community for a while. This is my 14th consecutive Drupalcon North America. I've spoken at Drupalcon. This is my 7th talk. That does not make me an expert. I'm just learning Drupal along with everybody else. So I mentioned those things just to say a little bit about how I've been involved. I've continued to contribute and I have organized a few different core initiatives. And I'll tell a little bit of stories about those later. But I also am a yoga teacher and I have looked for ways to integrate my yoga practice into some of my Drupal development. So we have a few of those themes in here and I'll hand it back to Owen. Thank you. Looks like I need some yoga based on that photo. I've been working in Drupal for 10 years. I'm a senior backend developer at Lullabot. I've been with them for two years. I'm the maintainer for recurring events and the field inheritance modules, which have a modest, I guess, install base. But that's cool. I'm cool with that. I'm a hobbyist electronic musician. If you pay me enough, I'll tell you where to look. And this is my first DrupalCon session, but I've presented at GovCon and a couple of local camps over the years. But before we move on, we're going to tell you a little bit more about Lullabot. I'm sure you've heard about us before, but it never hurts. We're one of the oldest Drupal agencies. We're an employee owned company. You can see some of the clients that we work with. I've worked at Lullabot for nine years and there you go. Our marketing folks are happy now. Legal obligations have been done. So the first thing to point out, this is not a complete guide. There's many, many, many, many docs out there that describe things in detail. Please read those and update them. You have the power to update them. If they're out of date, if you're coming to them and they don't ring true or whatever, you can go away and update these documentation files. We want to share experiences because we feel it's one thing reading documentation. It's one thing being told, go install DDEV or go do this, go do that. It really doesn't give you a great sense of what's involved and what sort of issues you might come across and what sort of pro tips we have from our years of contributing. So we want to tell you a little bit about what, it's probably important to say what is effective before we get into being effective. So over to Matt. I want to reiterate that we're not here to tell you what to do. That we have discussed a lot about what we thought would make an effective contributor to the Drupal community and we feel that in a way it's a personal journey. So we encourage you to start with figuring out what would give you joy. And that comes from a sense of doing things not just out of obligation, although there's definitely a sense of privilege to be able to choose to contribute. We're a couple of white guys who work at Lullabot and we have time set aside to do that. We realize not everybody can make that choice but we're talking to people who are at DrupalCon and if you do decide you do want to contribute and be part of this project or if you're new to the project, start with something that gives you joy is what we think. So there are lots of different reasons, ways you could measure your effectiveness and some people want to do things because they get credit and the Drupal community is very good at giving credit. We'll talk a little bit more about that. You might be here because you want to help with one of our big initiatives, the kinds of things that Dries will mention up on the Dries note or that get a lot of press in the Drupal community. And some of you might measure your effectiveness based on what your employer told you to do. They said you should contribute and help us get up higher on the, I'm forgetting the name, the marketplace page for organizations. So there's lots of different ways that you could measure your effectiveness. So we just encourage folks especially if you're new to start with figuring out what you want to do and not just grabbing random things because you think maybe it's a good idea. Part of being you is that we're all human. We're all coming from different backgrounds and perspectives. One thing that at times can get a bit aggressive in issue queues, people can take exception to each other. They can argue. They can accuse people of things such as trying to game the system. The thing we want to really push is we're all human. Just because someone says something in a particular way that maybe you don't like, you try and assume positive intent. There is a diversity of access as Matthew said. Not everyone has the time and not everyone has the resources to do maybe what you wish they would do. So try and be inclusive of everyone. Try and listen to different perspectives and ensure you abide by the Drupal Code of Conduct. That extends across not just being here at DrupalCon, but just general interactions with people in the community. Our first little icon, as I mentioned earlier, I am the maintainer of recurring events. Two people started going at it in an issue queue and accusing each other of not testing properly and trying to game the system. It got very awkward and aggressive. It's hard to deal with that sort of thing. We really need to take a step back and try it. If you're the one who's getting upset, try and take a minute and take a breath. It shows passion. I think that's one thing. We're passionate about improving Drupal. We're all here to try and improve Drupal as a product, as a community. Name-calling doesn't help. Try and treat people with respect and try and avoid aggressive terms and passive-aggressive writing and stuff like that. Just treat someone how you would like to be treated. That's one of our first main themes. Don't be a jerk. Be a nice human. Another theme that maybe seems obvious to people who have been contributing to Drupal for a while is that a lot of things happen in our issue queues. If you are new to Drupal, you might know that, for example, lots of work in other projects happens on GitHub. That's kind of a unique feature of Drupal is we have issue queues that work in a little bit of a different way sometimes. We have different workflow. We still share patches and things like that. Although that process is changing quite a bit. But we do encourage you to contribute and use the issue queues whenever possible. Sometimes people who are new to the community might work like they work on other projects and do things in GitHub and just bring it over. But there's a lot of folks in the Drupal community that encourage to do the work on Drupal.org and help interact with the community. That's one of those habits that folks can get involved with other developers and be more transparent rather than in most cases. It doesn't always work this way, but in most cases you can do that work in the Drupal issue queues. When you're interacting in those queues, people do have those flare-ups. People have impostor syndrome. People get scared. And just remembering that you're dealing with other human beings and that's what Owen was saying before. That doesn't mean that we're all going to agree. But I have found personally that if I am writing something in those issue queues that comes from a place of fear or anger, that doesn't always turn out so well. Remembering that sometimes we don't get to see the whole human being in the issue queue. The other thing you won't necessarily know or see in the issue queue is what we've called invisible priorities. And they're the things that come down from higher up. Maybe, as Matthew said, the trees note, the initiatives that are being pushed by the Drupal community as a whole. But on a micro issue level, it might not be obvious which initiative something aligns with. Issues move at different speeds and Drupal core moves at a different speed to contribe. A lot of it depends on, as I said, initiatives. Those things that are behind the initiatives get the most attention, which is great. But maybe the smaller niche issues that are hidden in the dark corners of Drupal don't get as much attention. And so if you find yourself in that space, something might take months. It could take years to fully make its way into Drupal core. And things in Drupal core cause moving constantly. It's a constantly evolving product. And so things become outdated pretty quickly. So there may be requests to update your pull requests, re-roll them for new versions of core. And that can take time and maybe slow things down a little bit. But it's all for a reason. Contrib modules depend on how the maintainers work, really. You're at the whim of them. Whether they are active, whether they only get a couple of hours a month or whatever it happens to be. So it can move slower, but it is a different experience. It can also move faster because there's less red tape and reviews and maybe you just reach out to them on Slack and you're like, hey, can you help me merge this patch and they'll go ahead and get it. But if you find Contrib moving slowly, you can also ask for maintainership or co-maintainership if you want and see if you can help things moving. So another story. I've been working on an issue in core for two years and I have added 56 patches to that and it's still not merged. Now part of that's my fault. There have been some updates recently asking for changes. But part of it is just the nature of it's a really niche bug. It certainly doesn't touch many Contrib modules. Not many people use that part of Drupal. And so it can be frustrating. You just want this thing to move and you're not getting the traction or it takes a month for someone to get back to you. But that's the nature of the beat. Some things move quickly, if they're aligned with initiatives, they move even quicker, but some things are just slow. And if you accept that and don't set your expectations too high for certain aspects of core contribution, it's fine. But you can also reach out and you can find out who the maintainers of the subsystems are and you can ask them to help move on. But also, if you're at DrupalCon, you can pester people in person. Do that. Oh, we're going to talk about credits and Oprah was kind enough to record this GIF for us. Thanks. Matthew is better at a position to talk about credits than I am so he's going to take over. That's not a credit. There are lots of ways that you can contribute lots of ways that you can contribute and Owen just mentioned working at issue queues, creating patches, working on things like that. Another way you can contribute is to write articles about Drupal. So I just thought I'd mention I wrote this article a while back in 2015 and that is a contribution to the Drupal community and the Drupal Association board meeting actually today somebody was talking about marketing being another way and they use the word marketing maker because there's this focus on makers now so you could be an article maker for the community. I did that and I don't know I sort of got lucky or whatever but Dries reached out to me and we started looking into the Drupal credit system so I learned about this alongside Dries writing this article back in 2016 and it was looking at how people sponsor we'll get more into the issue credit stuff but that's how I got into learning about the credit system and the credit system basically as I had mentioned before is a way to reward contributions. It's unique so this is another thing again if you're new to the community there is nothing else out there like this as far as I know and I've been involved with lots of other communities that help measure community health and credits don't just measure code you can get credits for joining a meeting project management planning all these other things when I've helped with some initiatives for example we'll have a meeting and people that attend you get a credit and this is one of those systems that allows us to measure who sponsors Drupal development and for example we know that work that Dries and I did he's been updating that post every year since we know that two thirds of the work in those issue queues now is sponsored so that gives you another insight into how people that are effective might be working if people are getting lots of credits and lots of people are getting credits and they're sponsored well that might be one way that if you view credits as effective so the credit system in case you haven't seen the issue queue this is kind of how it works where you can assign credit to yourself you can volunteer or you can say you're working for your company or you can say you're volunteering so for example I could say I am volunteering on my own time because sometimes I was working away from work on an issue I could be working on behalf of Lullabot and then I could mention my client so there have been times when I've checked all those boxes when I had certain clients where I was doing a little extra work and the credit system and the issue credits in the Drupal issue queue give the maintainers tools to help determine who has been active in that issue and to decide who gets credit so again I don't want to equate credits with being effective but this is a big part of our Drupal community so maybe one habit depending on your level of interest in contributing and how you contribute would be to understand a little bit about how the system works and I got credit for being on a podcast talking about the Drupal credit system I guess this is kind of meta here and this is what I meant where in other communities you wouldn't really get credit for code but the Drupal community is unique in that sense that you can get credit for lots of things and a lot of people that have been around the Drupal community for a long time don't know that when I was organizing the Olivero initiative one of the things I always did is every time we had a meeting everybody who showed up they all got credit and then somebody has to keep track of that so that's another way by the way if you want to get involved is to you know a little understanding of this can help you be more effective be more transparent be more beneficial so people can rack up credits in all kinds of areas Amy June she has a lot of these things so I mentioned meetings and whatnot so she people plan camps and get credit they you know work on core mentoring all these other things listed here there's lots of ways that an individual can get credit and then of course your work can your employer can get credit the organization that you're doing work for it's really a complex system actually and this I want to sort of again reiterate that this is kind of a unique system when I've been when I've talked about this in other communities people kind of think wow I want that that's nice that's fancy and as a matter of fact I attended a bunch of meetings working group meetings of the chaos community which is the community health analytics open source software these are people that just measure community health and we actually used Drupal's credit system for a specific metric on contribution attribution in other words our community became the model for the main organization that helps measure community health and I know that's kind of confusing but essentially we use that model and we're trying to get that into other places like get lab for when we move over there but also get hub and I've written a lot about these topics and I just I guess this is sort of a plug but you know if you this is more like saying if you want to learn more about like the leaderboards the recognition system the history of how Drupal's like marketplace page I've written about a lot of these things and you can find more about that on my blog and elsewhere earlier I mentioned that people try to manipulate the credit system I mean if it's used in the organization marketplace or whatever it's called we can't remember between us there are only people out there trying to manipulate it and there are people out there successfully manipulating it but our view is if you're an effective developer you're not you're not manipulating anything you're doing your job or you're doing something that brings you joy and you're happening you happen to be getting credit for it this was actually I think it was mentioned in one of the that I'm trying to figure out a way to remove the ability or lessen the ability of credit system manipulation the other thing like recognition as a whole part of that can be credit part of it could be something else but it's a scale and the scale begins at no recognition whatsoever you do a thing no one else sees it but it works for you cool but one of the things we really like about the community is sometimes people get name-dropped at the the Drees note on stage live at Drupalcon that's probably like the highest one of the best rituals around and one of the highest accolades like you got name-dropped by Drees on stage and that's cool not a lot of other places do that as far as we can tell and there's also people get mentioned by name for their contributions and the Aaron Wynbourne award is a really special award to this community and that's all about being part of the community and contributing in an effective way so how do we contribute going to Drupalcon is a great start so good on you fabulous job but there are also camps out there that just need people need attendance so you should try go to those as well we've mentioned it a bunch it's a huge theme throughout our presentation try and find things that are meaningful to you and contribute to those because those are the things that are going to bring you the most joy they're the things that you're going to probably invest more of yourself in and it's just a really good way to feel good about yourself and your contributions as a whole to the community one other thing we try to talk about is try not to worry or invest too much of yourself in the results like enjoy the process enjoy the fact that you're part of a bigger community you're contributing in ways that you want to contribute if the results come if something you contribute ends up in core that's awesome if something you contribute is a patch that only you or your colleagues use hey that's cool too but the results don't matter as much as being there and participating the other thing we want to talk about but there's a slide later is the contribution sprints and they're not just for coders so if you haven't been to one go to one you're here you might as well take advantage of being here and actually that's the way that both Matthew and I got our first core credits is we went to we had no idea what we were doing I know I sat there looking around like everyone seems to know what's happening and I don't even know where I am and a mentor came up to me he sat me down he made sure I had all the tools I needed and he found an issue that I could work on so that was how I got my first contribute credits my first core credits sorry and without the first time contribution sprint I don't know if I would be here right now I probably wouldn't would be less informed certainly but it's a really really good way to get started and I definitely recommend it for everyone other ways to get involved Drupal Slack I didn't know about Drupal Slack for probably too long found it years ago now but yeah join Slack there's a lot of stuff a lot of conversations and a lot of collaboration on fixing issues people asking questions it's a really good way to learn about Drupal and you may know or you may not know a web chick or Angie Byron they got their first start this way they went on Slack and they've spoken about this IRC at the time they've spoken about this multiple times they went in there were questions being asked and they went and found out how to answer those questions so that is a great way to help not just yourself learn but help other people learn and there's that moment like issue queues are very asynchronous things can take days, weeks, months whatever to get moving helping someone out in the moment when they need help like in Slack is such a help to the community and honestly I wish it happened more and I think we're going to talk a little bit about more contribution so like I said starting with whatever gives you joy and I guess for me maybe I'm a little bit of a pre-Madonna or something like that but sometimes I like being part of these big initiatives it seems fun to get something done that's big and the way that I got involved with working on the configuration management initiative there's this configuration system in Drupal that wasn't always there and I went to a sprint one time again going to sprints going to camps these kinds of things can be good habits for some folks I went to the table somehow I ended up next to XJM and Dries and XJM just said hey Matthew do you want to help get CMI over the finish line so I said well sure like that sounds like fun and lots of people wanted that to happen so I got involved and I didn't really know anything about it at the time when it was being built and I just started learning about it and I started breaking down a big complex thing that I didn't really understand into small chunks I looked at another initiative lead I saw that Gabor who was doing the multilingual initiative he created this site that was like updates about the multilingual site so I copied him and I created one for configuration management and I started figuring out what the principles were and I started blogging about it and coding I'm a backend developer by trade I guess you could say so I knew some of this stuff but I started just doing whatever I could to share the information so sharing could be another effective way to contribute to the community you don't need to be intimidated more recently my friend and colleague Mike Herschel was working on the Olivero initiative I got joy out of wanting to help Mike because I could see if you've ever been around Mike he's kind of a fun guy to be around and he was working on this and clearly he needed help so I just again said I can try and help you get this thing done and I organized meetings I'm not a front-end developer I did very little front-end code on this I did some backend things here and there and again I just sort of said hey I'll help out and when there's big initiatives lots of people want to have a front-end theme or at the time they did because we had Bartik before that and we'd had it for however long it was a decade or more well so getting involved in big initiatives is another way where if you like being part of initiatives that's very different I'm not one of those that's more effective than the other in terms of like big initiative versus one patch that last two years but there are ways where I've found it's difficult to be effective so I like I said I'm a yoga teacher and like I've thought it'd be fun to be able to bring yoga to the Drupal community but I haven't figured out an effective way to do that I don't know the Drupal way to do that I don't know how I would utilize the issue queue I don't know how I would utilize the rest of the Drupal community so I'm kind of working on it but in other words I wanted to make a clear point that there are some things that the community really wants it's like a new theme there are other things where it might be difficult to convince the community that they need yoga so when I say what brings you joy you might get different levels of effectiveness but I would encourage all of you let's just do a little experiment if you have a laptop maybe you want to close your laptop for just a second and just pause literally we don't do this a lot at DrupalCon and maybe sit up in your chair and if you'd like if it feels safe and comfortable you could blink your eyes closed and just think to yourself what would give me joy to be able to help others in the Drupal community and just notice how your mind reacts do you feel like oh man I would like to write an article build a module start a podcast help somebody learn PHP what gives you joy and then feel free to blink your eyes back open and if you'd like write down whatever came to mind and use that later in our contribution day tomorrow but I would encourage you to literally pause think about it because oftentimes people will just jump into stuff and not necessarily think about it and then they get stuck and then they feel like they're responsible or whatever but if you maybe start from that point see what sticks that felt borderline yoga-ish yeah so you figured it out yes as we've been saying contribution sprints are happening this week general contribution happens every day but the first time contributed sprint is tomorrow even if you don't want to contribute then and there and you just want to see how it works go on down it really is worthwhile we both got our starts there and it was it set us up for the future so please try and attend contribution it helps the community out a lot so we should probably circle back to habits like what are the habits of an effective contributor we've spoken a lot about different things like enjoying what you do prioritizing impact is aligning yourself with core initiatives that sort of thing strive for excellence like treating each other with dignity and respect and as a community we're better than we are individually but do you know what these are has anyone been paying attention to the documentation these are actually the my slide is not progressing that's fantastic Drupal's values fantastic so if you want to know more about the Drupal values there's a link there drupal.org slash values and principles but we feel between us the things that have really helped us contribute and continuing to help us contribute we've distilled them down a little bit and we've come up with the following finding something that brings you joy we're passionate about Drupal, we're passionate about the community and we try to find things that interest us and we also find that people can get stressed out, they can get burned out and they can quit so if you're looking after yourself and you're looking after the things that bring you joy maybe you won't quit you'll hang in there and you'll continue to contribute effective contributors don't just try and impress people they're there to take care of themselves, they're there to get something out of it, a feeling or credits or whatever that happens to be secondly a lot of open source projects you get by by scratching your own itch you do what you do and then you move on but things are a bit different at Drupal as we talk about there's the community the community is a huge part of Drupal and try and take advantage of the tools and the processes the systems have matured over decades and it's very well thought out and we have the issue queues and we have credit systems don't do your work in GitHub don't do your work in Bitbucket, try and try and do things the Drupal way and be aware of the community and be aware of the whole try and stay in contact tune into the community get a pulse on how things are done and if you do those things we certainly feel you will be effective and there are three options here but we're telling you to pick three so if you do all three of these things you may be on your way to being an effective Drupal contributor and at this point we that's the end of the presentation but what we would like to do is if anyone has questions feel free to call out but if anyone has any other habits that we haven't touched on things that have worked for you we'd love to hear about those these are just what worked for us maybe you do something different so thank you any questions? the question was do we find time every day or is it more as and when we need to we're fortunate to work for Lullabot where we get 10 hours a week of what we call success time where we can use it for contribution we can use it for personal professional development but me personally it's been it hasn't been every day it's as and when I maybe have other things going on or when issues happen to come up on modules I maintain and things like that I try to find time I also try to upload my billable work so then Fridays I can focus on contribution but we're aware that not everyone has the access and the privilege that we do to contribute so it's probably different for others I would add that I do things differently based on whatever I'm involved with at the time so there are certain roles where if you want to contribute you can sort of step up responsibility and I have felt like for example when I was working on the configuration management initiative that I would check the issue queue every day because I felt like one of the most beneficial things I could do would be to keep issues moving forward oh it looks like this one's stuck oh it looks like you know this one needs review and maybe go nudge somebody who I think would review it and I felt like that was the best way I could be useful rather than just going heads down for three days into some gnarly patch so there are other times where you know if I'm doing something else like I'm working like I was working on something with Tim Lainan where we're trying to sort of get our GitLab instance set up so it could work with the Drupal's unique credit system where it was more of like a heads down kind of thing where I had nothing going on in the issue queue where I was focused on talking at conferences and doing other things and that I was thinking about it maybe every day or writing articles or blog posts for Drupal.org or something like that but it's a very different kind of you know engagement so I'm saying it over and over again in a million ways like teachers do as a reminder that you can find your own way for what works for the particular way you want to contribute and because that has such a wide variety I would say that some days yes sometimes when I'm contributing it is every day kind of like a job and other times not so much. To repeat the question are there habits that are very Drupal centric and do not apply elsewhere that maybe we should revisit because it's harder to attract other developers or contributors from outside Drupal to Drupal I mean the biggest thing the patch process was always very strange but that's been that is continuing to be addressed with the merge request workflow which is far more in line with what you'd expect other open source communities I don't do a lot of open source contributions I mean my short answer would be yes like there are lots of weird Drupalisms that we have but I think it's a complex thing because there's technical reasons we have some of those complex workflows and we're trying to we're talking about reducing the friction that was one of the goals that Dries outlined and that the Drupal Association has identified reduced friction and I think that's what we're talking about and on the other hand I know that some people sort of love all of the different sort of unique things and that gives them that gives them some joy to use I still like to use patches on Drupal.org I like to be able to link to them for my client work and what not and everybody's got their own thing so I've never been one to say oh we all should do in a regular way I'm kind of like a sit on the sidelines for some of these kinds of things and kind of move with the flow but I do feel like there are in general there are lots of weird things that we do that people can sort of figure out but I do feel also for example we have a really good system of bringing people on who happen to be able to show up at a Drupal camp or a Drupal con sometimes there's really great volunteers mentors and I feel like some of that weird friction I personally feel like that can be great at building interpersonal relationships and I'm not so interested in all of the technical fixes to those sorts of problems and I'm more sort of enamored with how the Drupal community continues to find ways to have human beings help human beings create software that is my own personal take you've had your hand up for a while asking a question is actually a really important way of introducing because if you look at the presentation it's mostly written by people who already know how to do it which means they are basically just qualified from knowing all of the problems in the beginning so it's really important to think about yourself as if you could give her an example of what you have to be able to do something else Thank you, that was wonderful I can't totally summarize that but just for the recording and maybe anyone who didn't hear that I think the idea that Drupal and any open source project has places where people can ask questions that get lost but if we do things in the open web or do things that are more public then that can be useful to the next person and that's a general thing across projects I don't know if that's a fair summary but for the Drupal community for sure I was really hesitant to use Slack especially because I have more of a free software advocate and I wanted to keep things on IRC but I want our community to also be welcoming and people know Slack and whatever but then it makes it so those questions get lost in the ether but they were also lost in the ether with IRC so fine, whatever in the back we do I think the Drupal the past few Drupal cons they just automatically add this speakers to credit I think that shows up but maybe I don't know actually I think those are outlined somewhere I was looking for exactly where it is but again it's a very human system it's designed to have human interactions where I showed that chart earlier on where it's like there's these different ways to contribute this whole idea of selecting who gets credit is offloading the choicefulness to a human being rather than just saying because you reach 10 you automatically get credit so I would say in general we don't give credit for attending a session at Drupalcon but we do give credit to speaking at Drupalcon generally that's the community agreed upon way of doing things as far as I understand it well I can answer that saying that it's complex but for the most part Lullabot tells us they follow what brings you joy essentially and they try not to give us the incentives to do one particular thing but there's clearly some motivation to do things that will help and sometimes people will do things because they need to for a client or something like that but in general we're not usually incentivized to help but I think a lot of us just want to help each other so right now Lullabot sponsoring Christina to work for six months full time on Drupal core and there's a lot of people that want to see her succeed in some of the goals that she set so would that look good for the company for Lullabot to have somebody working on things that got completed yeah of course when we were working on Oliveiro there were seven or eight people we're working together we had designers, we had front-end developers we had back-end developers and a lot of that stuff happened because we wanted to work together and get this thing over the finish line and it was definitely good marketing juice for Lullabot to have us help finish that and the admin theme, Clara and Oliveiro around the same time we understand that it helps our company we're an employee-owned company that's kind of a long answer but in general I would say it's no but some people like Owen and I we just like the Drupal community we like to hang out, we like to like the people Laurie, last question you want to share something that brings me joy when I work on client projects when I get to remove a patch file from my ComposerDaisen file and that's something that I've been thinking about how can it be more effective when we add those patch files in the ComposerDaisen file and maybe there's a tip for people when you download a patch file or add it to your ComposerDaisen spend a couple minutes to understand to help the issue move forward and if everyone does one little step to help the issue move forward I think a lot of the issues that are applied on a lot of sites would get done faster right now what is happening instead is people are basically telling on the issue that I applied this patch on a site and it doesn't necessarily what the issue needs to help move forward sometimes it can be hard to figure out what is the next step but maybe going on Slack and asking how can I help this issue move forward would be the best next step to figure out what needs to be done this is something I wanted to share because I've come across quite a few issues where I've realized that this is something that probably hundreds if not thousand sites are applying Thank you and congratulations on the you're becoming a core project product manager today part of Drupal core and we're done I think we hit our time limit so thank you all for coming very much