 7. Testimonials on Pythagoras of Samos, and the Pythagoreans of Samos and the Pythagoreans translated by author Thurbex in the first Philosophers of Greece, Plato, Phaedon 62b, the saying that is uttered in secret rites to the effect that we men are in a sort of prison, and that one ought not to lose himself from it, nor yet to run away. Seems to me something great and not easy to see through, but this at least I think is well said, that it is the gods who care for us, and we men are one of the possessions of the gods. Plato, Krathilus 400b, for some say that it, the body, is the tomb of a soul. I think it was the followers of Orpheus in particular who introduced this word, which has this inclusion like a prison in order that it may be kept safe. Plato, Gorgias 493a, I once heard one of the wise men say that now we are dead and the body is our tomb, and that that part of the soul that desires or it so happens is open to persuasion and moves upward or downward, and indeed a clever man perhaps some inhabitant of Sicily or Italy speaking allegorically and taking the word from credible and persuadable called this ajar, and he called those without intelligence uninitiated, and that part of the soul of uninitiated persons were the desires or. He called its intemperateness and said it was not watertight as the jaw might be pierced with holes using the seamile because of its insatiated desires. Plato, Gorgias 507a, and the wise men say that one community embraces heaven and earth, and gods and men and friendship and order and temperance and rightnessness, and for that reason they call this whole universe my friend. For it is not without order nor yet is there excess, it seems to me that you do not be attention to these things, though you are wise in regard to them, but it has escaped your notice that geometrical equality prevails widely among both gods and men. Aristotle, Physics 34203a1, for all who think they have heavily applied themselves to such philosophy, have discords concerning the infinite, and they all have asserted some first principle of thingsome, like the Pythagorens and Plato, a first principle existing by itself, not connected with anything else, but being itself the infinite in its essence. Only the Pythagorens found it among things perceived by sense, for they say that number is not an abstraction, and they held that it was the infinite outside the heavens. Aristotle, Physics 34204a33, the Pythagorens both hold that the infinite is being, and divide it, Aristotle, Physics 46213b22, and the Pythagorens say that there is a void, and that it enters into the heaven itself from the infinite air, as though it, the heaven, were breathing. And this void defines the nature of things, inasmuch as it is a certain separation and definition of things that lie, and this is true first in the case of numbers. For the void defines the nature of these, Aristotle and the heavens, 1, 268a10, for as the Pythagorens say, the all and all things are defined by a phrase. For n and middle and beginning constitute the number of the all, and also the number of the triode. Aristotle and the heavens 22284b6, and since there are some who say that there is a right and left of the heavens, as for instance, those that are called Pythagorens, for such is their doctrine, we must investigate whether it is as they say. Aristotle and the heavens 22295a10, where for one of the Pythagorens might be surprised, in that they say that there are only these two first principles, the right and the left, and they pose over four of them, as not having the least validity, for there is no less difference up and down, and front and back, than there is right and left in all creatures. Aristotle and the heavens 22295b23, and some are dwelling in the upper hemisphere and to the right, while we dwell below and to the left, which is the opposite to what the Pythagorens say, for they put us above and to the right, while the others are below and at the left, Aristotle and the heavens 29290b15, something it necessary that noise should arise when so great bodies are in motion, since sound does arise from bodies among us which are not so large, and do not move so swiftly, and from the sun and moon and from the stars in so great number, and of so great size moving so swiftly, there must necessarily arise a sound inconceivably great, assuming these things and that the swiftness as a principle of harmony by reason of the intervals, they say that the sound of the stars moving on in a circle becomes musical, and since it seems unreasonable that we also do not hear this sound, they say that the reason for this is that the noise exists in the very nature of things, so as not to be distinguishable from the opposite silence, for the distinction of sound and silence lies in their contrast with each other, so that as blacksmiths think there is no difference between them because they are accustomed to the sound, so the same thing happens to men, Aristotle and the heavens 29291a7, what occasions the difficulty and makes the Pythagorens say, that there is a harmony of the bodies as they move, is a proof, for whatever things move themselves make a sound and noise, but whatever things are forced to end in what moves or exist in it, as the parts in a ship cannot make a noise, no yet does the ship if it moves in a river, Aristotle and the heavens 213293a19, they say that the whole heaven is limited, the opposite to what those of Italy call the Pythagorens say, for we see that fire is at the center and that the earth is one of the stars, and that moving in a circle about the center, it produces night and day, and we assume yet another earth opposite this which they call the counter earth, not seeking reasons and causes for phenomena, but stretching phenomena to meet certain assumptions and opinions of theirs and attempting to arrange them in a system, and further the Pythagorens say that the most authoritative part of the whole stands God, because it is especially fitting that it should, and this part is the center, and this place that the fire occupies, they call the God of Zeus as it is called simply the center, that is the center of space and the center of matter and of nature, Aristotle and the heavens 31315, the same was true for those who construct the heaven out of numbers, for some construct nature out of numbers, as do certain of the Pythagorens, Aristotle metaphysics 15985b23986b8, with these and before them, Anathagoras, Empedoclast, Atomist, those called Pythagorens applying themselves to the sciences, first developed them, and being brought up in them, they thought that the first principle of these, that is numbers, were the first principle of all things, and since of those sciences numbers are by nature the first, in numbers rather than in fire and earth and water, they thought they saw many lackness to things that are, and that are coming to be, as for instance, just this is such a property of numbers, and soul and mind are such a property, and another is opportunity, and of other things one may say the same of each one, and further designing in numbers the conditions and reason of all many also, since moreover other things seem to be like numbers in their entire nature, and numbers were the first of every nature, they assumed that the elements of numbers were the elements of all things, and that the whole heavens were harmony and number, and whatever characteristics in numbers and harmonics they could show were in agreement with the properties of the heavens, and its ports and with its whole arrangement, these they collected and adapted, and if there chance to be any gap anywhere, they eagerly thought that the whole system might be connected with these straight phenomena, to give an example of our meaning in as much as 10 seem to be the perfect number, and to embrace the whole nature of numbers, they asserted that the number of bodies moving through the heavens were 10, and when only 9 were visible, for the reason just stated they postulated the count of earth as the 10th, we have given a more defining account of these thinkers in other parts of our writings, but we have referred to them here with this purpose in view that we might ascertain from them what they asserted as the first principles, and in what manner they came upon the causes that have been enumerated, they certainly seem to consider number as the first principle, and as it were the matter in things and in their conditions and states, and the earth and the even or elements of the number, and of these the one is infinite and the other finite, and unity is the product of both of them, or it is both earth and even, and number arises from unity, and the whole heaven as has been said is numbers, a different party in this same school say that the first principles are 10, named according to the following table, finite and infinite, even and earth, one and many, right and left, male and female, rest and motion, straight and crooked, light and darkness, good and bad, square and oblong. After this manner, Archmion of Croton seems to have conceived them, and either he received this doctrine from them, or them from him, for Archmion arrived at maturity when Patagoras was an old man, and his teachings resemble theirs, or he says that most human affairs are twofold, not meaning opposites rich by definition, as did the former party, but opposites by chance, as for example, white, black, sweet, bitter, good, bad, small, great. This philosopher let fall his opinions indefinitely about the rest. But the Patagoras declared the number of opposites and what they were, from both one may learn this much, that opposites are the first principles of things, but from the latter he may learn the number of these, and what they are, but how it is possible to bring them into relation with the causes of which we have spoken, if they have not clearly worked out, but they seem to range their elements under the category of matter, for they say that being is compounded and formed from them, and that they in here in it, Aristotle Metaphysics 1 987 A 9227, down to the Italian philosophers, and with the exception of them, the rest have spoken more reasonably about these principles, except that as we said they do indeed use two principles, and the one of these wands his motion, some regard as one and others as twofold. The Patagoras however, while they in similar manner assume two first principles, and this which is peculiar to themselves, that they do not think that the finite and the infinite, and the one or certain over things by nature, such as fire or earth or any other such thing, but the infinite itself and unity itself are the essence of the things of which they are predicated, and so they make number the essence of all things, so they thought of this manner about them, and began to discourse and to define what being is, but they made it altogether too simple a matter, for they made the definition superficially, and to whatever first the definition might apply, this they thought to be the essence of the matter, as if one should say that twofold and two were the same, because the twofold subsist in the two, but undoubtedly the two and the twofold are not the same, otherwise the one will be many, a consequence which even they would not draw. So much then may be learned from the earlier philosophers and from their successors, Aristotle metaphysics 16987b10, and Plato only changed the name, for the Patagoras say that things exist by imitation of numbers, but Plato by sharing the nature of numbers, Aristotle metaphysics 16987b22, but that the one is the real essence of things, and not something else with unity as an attribute, he affirms agreeing with the Patagoras, and in harmony with them he affirms that numbers are the principles of being for other things, but it is peculiar to him that instead of a single infinite he posits a double infinite, an infinite of greatness and of littleness, and it is also peculiar to him that he separates numbers from things that are seen, while they say that numbers are things themselves, and do not interpose mathematical objects between them, this separation of the one and numbers from things, in contrast with the position of the Patagoras, and the introduction of the ideas, or the consequence of his investigation by concepts, Aristotle metaphysics 18980amb, 3299a32, those however who carry on their investigation, with reference to all things and divide things into what are perceived and what are not perceived by sense, evidently examine both clauses, so one must deal a little longer over what they say, they speak correctly and incorrectly in reference to the questions now before us, now those who are called Patagoras, use principle and elements yet stranger than those of the physicists, in that they do not take them from the sphere of sense, for mathematical objects are without motion, except in the case of astronomy, still they discourse about everything in nature and study it, they construct the heaven, they observe what happens in its spots and their states and motions, they apply to these their first principles and causes, as though they agreed entirely with the other physicists, that being is only what is perceptible, and what that which is called heaven includes, but their causes and first principles they say, or such as to lead up to the higher parts of reality, and are in harmony with this rather than with the doctrines of nature, in what manner motion will take place when finite and infinite, odd and even, or the only underlying realities they do not say, know how it is possible for genesis and destruction to take place, without motion and change, or for the heavenly bodies to revolve, for other, if one grant to them that greatness arises from these principles, or if this could be proof nevertheless, how will it be that some bodies are light and some heavy, for their postulates and statements apply no more to mathematical objects than to things of sense, accordingly they have said nothing at all about fire or earth, or any such objects, because I think they have no distinctive doctrine about things of sense, for how is it necessary to assume that number and states of number are the causes of what is in the heavens, and what is taking place there from the beginning and now, and that there is no other number than that out of which the world is composed, for one opinion and opportune time, or at a certain point in the heavens, and a little further up or down, or injustice and judgment, or a mixture of them, and they bring forward as proof that each one of these is number, and the result then is that at this place there is already a multitude of compounded quantities, because those states of number have each their place, is this number in heaven the same, which it is necessary to assume that each of these things is, or is it something different, Plato says it is different, still he thinks that both these things and the causes of them are numbers, but the one clause, are ideal causes, and the other are sense causes, Aristotle metaphysics 2 1 996 a4, and the most difficult and perplexing question of all, is whether unity and being honored, as Plato and the Patagonians say, something different from things, but the very essence, or whether the underlying substance, is something different, friendship as Empedocles says, or as another says, fire or water or air, Aristotle metaphysics 2 4 1001 a9, Plato and the Patagonians assert that neither being nor yet unity, is something different from things, but that it is the very nature of them, as though essence itself consisted in unity and existence, Aristotle metaphysics 2 1036b 17, so it turns out that many things of which the forms appear different have one form, as the Patagonians discovered, and one can say that there is one form for everything, and the others are not forms, and thus all things will be one. Aristotle metaphysics 9 2 1053 b 11, whether the one itself is a sort of essence, as first the Patagonians and later Plato affirmed, Aristotle metaphysics 117 1072 b 31, and they are wrong who assume, as do the Patagonians and specipers, that the most beautiful and the best is not in the first principle, because the first principles of plants and animals are indeed causes, for that which is beautiful and perfect, is in what comes from these first principles, Aristotle metaphysics 12 4 1078 b 21, the Patagonians before Democritus only defined a few things, the concepts of which they reduced to numbers, as for instance, opportunity or justice or marriage, Aristotle metaphysics 12 6 1080 b 16, the Patagonians say that there is but one number, the mathematical, but things of sense are not separated from this, for they are composed of it, indeed they construct the whole heaven out of numbers, but not out of unit numbers, for they assume that the unities have quantity, but how the first unity was so constituted as to have quantity, they seem at a loss to say, all as many as regard the one as the limit and first principle of things, except the Patagonians, assert that numbers are based on the unit, but the Patagonians assert, as has been remarked, that numbers have quantity, Aristotle metaphysics 12 8 1083 b 9, the Patagonians standpoint has on the one hand fewer difficulties than those that have been discussed, but it has new difficulties of its own, the fact that they do not regard numbers separately removes many other contradictions, but it is impossible that bodies should consist of numbers and that this number should be mathematical, nor is it true that indivisible elements have quantity, but granted that they have this quality of indivisibility, the units have no quantity, for how can quantity be composed of indivisible elements, but our mathematical number consists of units, but these say that things are numbers, at least they adapt their speculations to such bodies as consist of elements which are numbers, Aristotle metaphysics 13 3 1090 820, on the other hand the Patagonians, because they see many qualities of numbers in bodies perceived by sense, regard objects as numbers, not as separate numbers, but as derived from numbers and why, because the qualities of numbers exist in how many, both in the heaven and in many other things, but for those who hold that number is mathematical only, it is impossible on the basis of their hypothesis to see any such thing, and it has already been remarked that there can be no science of these numbers, but we say as above that there is a science of numbers, evidently the mathematical does not exist apart by itself, for in that case, its qualities could not exist in bodies, in such a matter the Patagonians are restrained by nothing, when however they construct out of numbers, physical bodies out of numbers that have neither weight nor lightness, bodies that have weight and lightness, they seem to be speaking about another heaven, and other bodies than those perceived by sense, Aristotle Ephics 14 1096 B5, and the Patagonians seem to speak more persuasively about it, putting the unity in the coordination of good things, Aristotle Ephics 20 1106 B29, the evil politics of the nature of the infinite, the good of the finite, as the Patagonians conjectured Aristotle Ephics 58 1132 B21, reciprocity seems to some to be absolutely just, as the Patagonians say, for this define the just as that which is reciprocal to another, Aristotle great Ephics 11 11182 A11, first Patagoras attempted to speak concerning the two, but he did not speak correctly for bringing the two into correspondence with numbers, he did not make any distinct, I choose Placita Theosophoreum 13 280, and again from another starting point, Patagoras, son of Moussaukos Esamian, who was the first to call this matter by the name of philosophy, assume as first principles the numbers and the symmetries existing in them, which he calls harmonies, and the elements compounded of both, that are called geometrical, and again he includes the monad and the undefined diode among the first principles, and for him one of the first principles stands toward the creative and form-giving cause, which is intelligence that is God and the other stands toward the passive and material cause, which is the visible universe, and he says that the starting point of number is the decad, for all Greeks and all barbarians, count as 4 as 10, and when they get as 4 as this, they return to the monad, and again he says the power of the 10 is in the 4 and the tetrad, and the reason is this, if anyone returning from the monad adds the numbers in a series as 4 as the 4, he will fill out the number 10, that is 1 plus 2 plus 3 plus 4 is equal to 10, but if he goes beyond the number of the tetrad, he will exceed the 10, just as if one should add 1 and 2 and should add to this 3 and 4, he will fill out the number 10, so that according to the monad number is in the 10, but potentially in the 4, wherefore the Patagorens were wont to speak as though the greatest of were the tetrad, by him that transmitted to our soul the tetractes, which has the spring and root of ever-flowing nature, and our soul he says is composed of the tetrad, for it is intelligence, understanding, opinion, sense, from which things come every art and science, and we ourselves become reasoning beings, the monad however is intelligence, for intelligence is according to the monad, as for example men are made up of many ports, and port by port they are devoid of sense and comprehension and experience, yet we perceive that men as one alone, whom no being resembles, possesses these qualities, and we perceive that a horse is one, but port by port it is without experience, for these are all forms and clauses according to monads, wherefore assigning this limit with reference to each one of these, they speak of a reasoning being and an aing being, on this account the monad is intelligence, by which we perceive these things, and the undefined diode is science, fittingly for all proof and all persuasion is part of science, and further, every syllogism brings together what is questioned out of some things that are agreed upon, and easy proof something else, and science is the comprehension of these things, wherefore it would be the diode, and opinion as a result of comprehending them is the triad, fittingly for opinion has to do with many things, and the triad is quantity, as a prize blessed Danai, on this account then he includes the triad, and their sec is called italic, because Pythagoras taught in italic, for he removed from some of his forevolins, because of dissatisfaction with the tyranny of piltrads. 1.7 Pythagoras held that one of the first principles, the monad is good and the good, which is the origin of the one, and is itself intelligence, but the undefined diode is a divinity and the bad, surrounding which is the mass of matter. 1.8.307 Divine spirits, or cyclical beings, and heroes or souls separated from bodies, good heroes or good souls, bad heroes or bad souls. 1.9.307 The followers of fails and Pythagoras, and the stoics, held that matter is variable and changeable, and transformable, and in a state of flux, the whole through the whole. 1.10.309 Pythagoras asserted that the so-called forms and ideas existed in numbers and their harmonies, and in what are called geometrical objects, apart from bodies, 1.11.310 Pythagoras and Aristotle asserted that the first causes are immaterial, but that other causes involve a union, who contact with material substance so that the world is material. 1.14.312 The followers of Pythagoras held that the universe is sphere according to the form of the four elements, but the highest fire alone is conical 1.15.314 The Pythagoras called color the manifestation of matter. 1.16.314 Bodies are subject to change of condition, and are divisible to infinity. 1.18.316 And in his first book on the philosophy of Pythagoras, he writes that the heaven is one, and that time and wind, and the void which always defines the places of each thing, are introduced from the infinite, and among other things he says that place is the immovable limit of what surrounds the world, or that in which bodies abide and are moved, and that it is full when it surrounds body on every side, and empty when it has absolutely nothing in itself. Accordingly, it is necessary for place to exist and body, and it is never empty except only from the standpoint of thought, for the nature of it in perpetuity is destructive of the interrelation of things and of the combination of bodies, and motions arise according to place of bodies that surround and oppose each other, and no infiniteness is lacking, either of quantity or of extent. 1.23.318 Pythagoras said that time is a sphere of what surrounds the world. 1.21.318 Pythagoras plateaued motion is a certain overness or difference in matter. This is the common limit of all motion. 1.24.320 Pythagoras and all that assume that matter is subject to change, assert that genesis and destruction in an absolute sense take place, foreform change of the elements and modification and separation of them. They are take place just a position and mixture, intermingling and melting together. 2.1427 Pythagoras first named some conference of all things, the universe by reason of the order in it. 2.14330 Pythagoras plateau and the stoics held that the universe is brought into being by God, and it is perishable so far as its nature is concerned, for it is perceived by sense and therefore material. It will not however be destroyed in accordance with the foreknowledge and plan of God. 2.6334 Pythagoras, the universe is made from five solid figures, which are called also mathematical. Of these he says that earth has a horizon from the cube, fire from the pyramid, air from the octahedron, and water from the icosahedron, and the sphere of the hole from the dedica hedron. 2.9338 The flowers of Pythagoras hold that there is a void outside the universe, into which the universe breathes for, and from which it breathes in. 2.10339 Pythagoras, plateau earth's total, the right hand side of the universe is the eastern port, from which comes the beginning of motion, and the left hand side is the west. They say the universe has neither height nor depth, in which statement height means distance from below upwards, and depth from above downwards. For none of the distances, thus described, exist for the universe, in as much as it is disposed around the middle of itself, from which it extends towards the hole, and with reference to which it is the same on every side, 212340, Pythagoras and their followers. The sphere of the whole heaven is divided into five circles, which they call zones. The first of these is called the orthotic zone, and is ever visible, the second the soma solstice, the third the echinocchial, the fourth the winter solstice, and fifth the Antarctic zone, which is invisible. And the ecliptic called the zodiac in the three middle ones is projected to judge them three middle ones, and the meridian crosses all these from the north to the opposite quarter at right angles. It is said that Pythagoras was the first to recognize the slant of the zodiac curve circle, which only points of choice appropriated as his own discovery, 213,343. Heraclades and the Pythagoras asserted that each world of the stars is air, and either surrounding earth in the infinite either, and these doctrines are brought out in the orthic writings. For they construct each world of the stars, 222, 352, the Pythagoras, the sun is spherical, 223, 353, Plato, Pythagoras, Aristotle, the solstices lie along the slant of the zodiac curve circle, for which the sun goes along the zodiac, and with the accompaniment of the tropic circles, and all these things also the globe shows 224, 354, an eclipse takes place when the moon comes forth, 225, 357, Pythagoras, the moon is a mirror-like body, 229, 460. Some of the Pythagoras, according to the Aristotelian account and the statement of Philip the Open John, said that an eclipse of the moon takes place sometimes by the interposition of the earth, sometimes by the interposition of the counter-earth, but it seems to some more recent thinkers that it takes place by a spreading of a flame little by little, as it is gradually kindled until it gives a complete full moon, and again in lack manner it grows less until the conjection, when it is completely extinguished, 220, 461. Some of the Pythagoras, among them Philip Laos, said that the earthy appearance of the moon is due to its being inhabited by animals and bad plants. Like those on our earth, only greater and more beautiful through the animals on it, or 15 times as powerful, not having any sort of excrement. And the idea is 15 times as long as ours, but others said that the outward appearance in the moon is a reflection on the other side, of an inflamed circle of a sea that is on our earth. Some regard the greater year as a 60 year period, among whom are Ocupids and Pythagoras. Through one, some of the Pythagoras said that the Milky Way is the burning of a star that fell from its own foundation, setting on fire the region through which it pours in a circle, as fear turned those burned. And others say that the course of the sun arose in this manner at the first, and certain ones say that the appearance of the sun is like a mirror reflecting its rays toward the heaven. And therefore it happens at times to reflect its rays on the rainbow in the clouds 32366. Some of the followers of Pythagoras say that the comet is one of the stars that are not always shining, but emit their light periodically through a certain defined time. But others say that it is the reflection of our vision into the sun, like reflected images 314. Pythagoras, the earth after the analogy of a sphere of a hole, is divided into five zones, Arctic, Antarctic, Summer, Winter, and Echinocchial. Of these, the middle one he defines to be the middle of the earth, called for this very reason the Torrid Zone, but the inhabited one, the one between the Arctic and the Torrid Zone, being well tempered 42, Pythagoras holds that number moves itself, and he takes number as an equivalent for intelligence 44389. Pythagoras' plateau, according to a superficial account, the soul is of two pots, the one possessing the overarching reason, but according to close an exact examination of three pots, through the unreasoning pot, they divide into the emotions and the desires, the successes of Pythagoras, saying that body is a mixture of five elements, for they rank the ether as a fifth along with the four, held by the powers of the soul, or of the same number as these, and these they name intelligence and wisdom and understanding and opinion and sense perception 45491. Pythagoras, the principle of life is about the heart, but the principle of reason and intelligence is about the head 45492. Pythagoras' the intelligence enters from without 47392. Pythagoras' the soul is imperishable 49396. Pythagoras' the sense perceptions or deceptive 49397. Pythagoras' each of the sensations is pure, proceeding from each single element, with reference to vision, it was of the nature of ether, hearing, of the nature of wind, smell, of the nature of fire, taste, of the nature of moisture, touch, of the nature of earth 414405. The followers of Pythagoras and of the mathematicians and reflections of vision, for visions move directly as it were against the bronze of the mirror, and meeting with a firm smooth surface, it is turned and bent back on itself, meeting some such experience as when the arm is extended and then bent back to the shoulder. 420409. Pythagoras' plateau is total. Sound is immaterial, though it is not air, but it is the form about the air and the appearance of some sort of percussion, which becomes sound, and every appearance is immaterial, for it moves with bodies, but is itself absolutely immaterial. As in the case of a bed rod, the surface appearance suffers no change, but the matter is what is bed. 51415. Pythagoras did not admit the sacrificial pot alone of Ogery. 53417. Pythagoras' the seed is form of the best pot of the blood, is secretion from the nourishment, like blood and marrow. 54417. Pythagoras' plateau are total. The power of seed is immaterial, like intelligence. The moving power, but the matter that is poured forth is material. 52432. Pythagoras' plateau is the source of animals, called unreasoning, or reasonable, not however with active reasoning powers, because of an imperfect mixture of the bodies, and because they do not have the power of speech, as in the case of apes and dogs, for these have intelligence, but not the power of speech. 5456. Aries Dedimus epitome FA-32. Apollodorus in the second book concerning the codes. It is the Pythagorean opinion, but the morning and the evening store of the same. Theophrastus' physics FA-17. Favourite news says that he, Pythagoras, was of us to call the heavens, the universe, and the earth round, this error on the nature of God's 111, for Pythagoras, who held that soul, is extended through all the nature of things, and mingled with them, and that this our souls are taken, did not see that God would be separated and torn apart by the separation of human souls. And when souls are wretched, as might happen to many, then part of God would be wretched, a thing which could not happen. Apollitus, philosophumena 2. There is a second philosophy, not for a distant from the same time, of which Pythagoras, whom some call a Samyan, was the first representative, and this they call the Italian philosophy, because Pythagoras fled the rule of Policratus over the Samayans, and settled in a city of Italy where he spent his life. The sexist leaders of this sect, shared the same spirit, and he in his studies of nature, mingled astronomy and geometry and music, and thus he asserted that God is a monarch, and examining the nature of number, with special care, he said that the universe produces melody, and is put together with harmony. And he first proved the motion of the seven stars to be rhythm and melody, and in wonder at the structure of the universe, he decreed that at first, his disciples should be silent, as it were mystia were coming into the order of the all. Then when he thought they had sufficient education in the principles of truth, and had sought wisdom sufficiently in regard to stars, and in regard to nature, he pronounced them pure, and then bid them speak. He separated his disciples into two groups, and called one esoteric and the other exoteric. To the former, he entrusted the more perfect sciences, to the latter the more moderate, and he dealt with magic as they say, and himself discovered the art of physiognomy. Postulating both numbers and measures, he was warned to say that the first principle of arithmetic embraced philosophy by combination. After the following manner, number is the first principle, a thing which is undefined, incomprehensible, having in itself all numbers which could reach infinity in amount, and the first principle of numbers is in substance, the first monad, which is a male monad, begetting as a father all other numbers. Secondly, the dyad is female number, and the same is called by the arithmetician even. Thirdly, the triad is male number, these the arithmeticians have been warned to call odd. Finally, the tetrad is a female number, and the same is called even because it is female. All numbers then, taken by clauses or fours, for a number is undefined in reference to clause, of which is composed the perfect number, the dyad, for the series one, two, three, and four becomes ten, if its own name is kept in its essence by each of the numbers. Pythagoras said that this sacred tetrad is the spring having the roots of ever-flowing nature in itself, and from these numbers have their first principle, for the eleven and the twelve and the rest derive from the ten the first principle of their being. The four parts of the dyad, this perfect number, or called number, monad, power, and cube, and the interweaving and mingling of these in the origin of growth, are what naturally complete nascent number, for when the power is multiplied upon itself, it is the power of a power, and when the power is multiplied on a cube, it is the power of a cube, and when a cube is multiplied on a cube, the cube of a cube. Thus all numbers from which arises the genesis of what arises, or seven, number, monad, power, cube, power of a power, power of a cube, cube of a cube. He said that the soul is immortal, and that it changes from one body to another, so he was want to say that he himself had been born before the Trojan War, as aphelids, and at the time of the Trojan War, as aphobos, and after that as Helmutimus of Samos, then as Pyrrhus of Delos, Thith as Pythagoras, and Jodoros of Eretoria, and Aristozenos, the musician, say that Pythagoras had come into Zarasthas of Chaldea, and he said forth that in his view they were from the beginning to causes of things, father and mother, and the father is light, and the mother darkness, and the ports of light, or warm, dry, light, swift, and of darkness, or cold, moist, heavy, slough, and of these the universe is composed of male and female, and he says that the universe exists in accordance with musical harmony, so the sun also makes an harmonious period, and concerning the things that arise from the earth and the universe, they say that Zarasthas spoke as follows, there are two divinities, one of the heavens and the other of the earth, the one of the earth produces things from the earth, and it is water, and the divinity of the heavens is fire with a portion of air, warm and cold, wherefore he says that none of these things will destroy or even pollute the soul, for these are the essence of all things, and it is said that Zarasthas forbids men to eat beans, because he said that at the beginning and composition of all things, when the earth was still a whole, the bean arose, and he says that the proof of this is that if one chooses a bean to a pulp and exposes it to the sun for a certain time, for the sun will affect it quickly, it gives out the order of human seed, and he says that there is another and clearer proof, if when a bean is in flower, we were to take the bean and its flower and put it into a picture moistened, eat and then bury it in the earth, and after a few days dig it up again, we should see in the first place that it had the form of a womb, and examining it closely, we should find the head of a child growing with a deep urge in a conflagration with his disciples in Croton in Italy, and it was the custom when one became a disciple for him to burn his property, and to leave his money under his seal with Patagoras, and he remained in silence sometimes three years, sometimes five years and studied, and immediately on being released from this, he mingled with the others and continued a disciple and made his home with them, otherwise he took his money and was set off. The esoteric laws were called Patagorans, and the others Patagoristae, and those of the disciples who escaped the conflagration were Lysis and Occipus, and Xarmuxis, the slave of Patagoras, who is said to have told the Patagorean philosophy to the Greeks among the Celts, it is said that Patagoras learned numbers and measures from the Egyptians, astonished at the wisdom of the price, which was deserving of belief and fuller of fancies and difficult to buy, he imitated it and himself also taught his disciples to be silent, and obliged the student to remain quietly in rooms underneath the earth. Epiphanus, Panorian, 38, Patagoras the Samyan, son of Nescocos, said that the monad is God, and that nothing has been brought into being apart from this, he was want to say that wise men ought not to sacrifice animals to the gods, nor yet to eat what had life or beans, nor to drink wine, and he was want to say that all things from the moon downward were subject to change, while from the moon upward they were not, and he said that the soul goes at death into other animals, and he bade his disciples to keep silence for a period of five years, and finally he named himself a god, and of pot seven, recording by Ancur. Part 8 of Ancient Greek Philosopher's Scientists. This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, please visit LibriVox.org. Recording by Graham Redman. Ancient Greek Philosopher's Scientists, a collection of their surviving words reported in ancient sources and translated by various translators. Part 8, Testimonials on Thales of Miletus, translated by Arthur Fairbanks in The First Philosophers of Greece. Plato on the Laws 10, 899 b. And as for all the stars and the moon and the years and the months and all the seasons, can we hold any other opinion about them than this same one, that inasmuch as soul or souls appear to be the cause of all these things, and good souls the cause of every excellence, we are to call them gods, whether they order the whole heavens as living beings in bodies, or whether they accomplish this in some other form and manner. Is there any one who acknowledges this, and yet holds that all things are not full of gods? Aristotle Metaphysics 1, 3, 983 b. 6. Most of the early students of philosophy thought that first principles in the form of matter and only these are the sources of all things. For that of which all things consist, the antecedent from which they have sprung, and into which they are finally resolved, in so far as being underlies them and is changed with their changes, this, they say, is the element and first principle of things. Aristotle Metaphysics 1, 3, 983 b. 18. As to the quantity and form of this first principle, there is a difference of opinion, but Thales, the founder of this sort of philosophy, says that it is water, accordingly he declares that the earth rests on water, getting the idea, I suppose, because he saw that the nourishment of all beings is moist, and that warmth itself is generated from moisture and persists in it. For that from which all things spring is the first principle of them, and getting the idea also from the fact that the germs of all beings are of a moist nature, while water is the first principle of the nature of what is moist. And there are some who think that the ancients, and they who lived long before the present generation, and the first students of the gods had a similar idea in regard to nature, for in their poems Oceanos and Tethys were the parents of generation, and that by which the gods swore was water. The poets themselves called it sticks. For that which is most ancient is most highly esteemed, and that which is most highly esteemed is an object to swear by. Whether there is any such ancient and early opinion concerning nature would be an obscure question, but Thales is said to have expressed this opinion in regard to the first cause. Aristotle on heavens 2, 13, 294, a.28. Some say that the earth rests on water. We have ascertained that the oldest statement of this character is the one accredited to Thales the Mylesian, to the effect that it rests on water floating like a piece of wood or something else of that sort. Aristotle on the soul 1, 2, 405, a.19. And Thales, according to what is related of him, seems to have regarded the soul as something in doubt with the power of motion, if indeed he said that the lodestone has a soul because it moves iron. Aristotle on the soul 1, 5, 411, a.7. Some say that soul is diffused throughout the whole universe, and it may have been this which led Thales to think that all things are full of gods. Simplicius, commentary on Aristotle's on the soul 8, r. 32, 16, 3. Thales posits water as the element, but it is the element of bodies, and he thinks that the soul is not a body at all. Speaking thus of Thales, he adds with a degree of reproach that he assigned a soul to the magnetic stone as the power which moves the iron, that he might prove soul to be a moving power in it. But he did not assert that this soul was water, although water had been designated as the element, since he said that water is the element of substances, but he supposed soul to be unsubstantial form. Simplicius, commentary on Aristotle's on the soul 20, r. 73, 22. For Thales also, I suppose, thought all things to be full of gods, the gods being blended with them, and this is strange. Simplicius, commentary on Aristotle's physics 6, r. 23, 21. Of those who say that the first principle is one and movable, to whom Aristotle applies the distinctive name of physicists, some say that it is limited, as for instance Thales of Miletus, son of Examaeus, and Hippo who seems also to have lost belief in the gods. These say that the first principle is water, and they are led to this result by things that appear to sense. For warmth lives in moisture, and dead things wither up, and all germs are moist, and all nutriment is moist. Now it is natural that things should be nourished by that from which each has come, and water is the first principle of moist nature. Accordingly they assume that water is the first principle of all things, and they assert that the earth rests on water. Thales is the first to have set on foot the investigation of nature by the Greeks, although so many others preceded him in Theophrastus's opinion he so far surpassed them as to cause them to be forgotten. It is said that he left nothing in writing except a book entitled Nautical Astronomy. Hippolytus Phyllisofumena I It is said that Thales of Miletus, one of the seven wise men, was the first to undertake the study of physical philosophy. He said that the beginning, the first principle, and the end of all things is water. All things acquire firmness as this solidifies, and again as it is melted their existence is threatened. To this are due earthquakes and whirlwinds and movements of the stars, and all things are movable and in a fluid state the character of the compound being determined by the nature of the principle from which it springs. This principle is God, and it has neither beginning nor end. Thales was the first of the Greeks to devote himself to the study and investigation of the stars, and was the originator of this branch of science. On one occasion he was looking up at the heavens, and was just saying he was intent on studying what was overhead when he fell into a well, whereupon a maid-servant named Thratta laughed at him and said, in his zeal for things in the sky he does not see what is at his feet. And he lived in the time of Cresus. Plutarch stromatize one. He says that Thales was the earliest thinker to regard water as the first principle of all things, for from this all things come, and to it they all return. Aetius, Placitor Philosopherum. One, two. Thales of Miletus regards the first principle and the elements as the same thing, but there is a very great difference between them, for elements are composite, but we claim that first principles are neither composite nor the result of processes. So we call earth, water, air, fire, elements, and we call them first principles for the reason that there is nothing antecedent to them from which they are sprung, since this would not be a first principle, but rather that from which it is derived. Now there is something anterior to earth and water from which they are derived, namely the matter that is formless and invisible, and the form which we call entelicae and privation. So Thales was in error when he called water an element and a first principle. One, three, two hundred and seventy-six. Thales the Miletian declared that the first principle of things is water. This man seems to have been the first philosopher, and the Ionic school derived its name from him, for there were very many successive leaders in philosophy, and Thales was a student of philosophy in Egypt, but he came to Miletus in his old age, for he says that all things come from water and are resolved into water. The first basis for this conclusion is the fact that the seed of all animals is their first principle, and it is moist. Thus it is natural to conclude that all things come from water as their first principle. Secondly the fact that all plants are nourished by moisture and bare fruit, and unless they get moisture they wither away. Thirdly the fact that the very fire of the sun and the stars is fed by the exhalations from the waters, and so is the universe itself. One, seven, three hundred and one. Thales said that the mind in the universe is God, and the all is endowed with soul and is full of spirits, and its divine moving power pervades the elementary water. One, eight, three hundred and seven. Thales at Elii say that spirits are psychical beings and that heroes are souls separated from bodies. Good heroes are good souls. Bad heroes are bad souls. One, eight, three hundred and seven. The followers of Thales at Elii assert that matter is turned about, varying, changing, and in a fluid state, the whole in every part of the whole. One, twelve, three hundred and ten. Thales and his successors declare that the first cause is immovable. One, sixteen, three hundred and fourteen. The followers of Thales and Pythagoras hold that bodies can receive impressions and can be divided even to infinity, and so can all figures, lines, surfaces, solids, matter, place, and time. One, eighteen, three hundred and fifteen. The physicists, followers of Thales, all recognize that the void is really a void. One, twenty-one, three hundred and twenty-one. Thales, necessity is most powerful, for it controls everything. Two, one. Thales and his successors hold that the universe is one. Two, twelve, three hundred and forty. Thales at Elii hold that the sphere of the entire heaven is divided into five circles, which they call zones. And of these the first is called the Arctic zone, and is always visible. The next is the summer solstice, the next is the equinoctial, the next the winter solstice, and the next the Antarctic, which is invisible. And the ecliptic in the three middle ones is called the zodiac, and is projected to touch the three middle ones. All these are cut by the meridian at a right angle from the north to the opposite quarter. Two, thirteen, three hundred and forty-one. The stars consist of earth, but are on fire. Two, twenty, three hundred and forty-nine. The sun consists of earth. Two, twenty-four, three hundred and fifty-three. The eclipses of the sun take place when the moon passes across it in direct line, since the moon is earthy in character, and it seems to the eye to be laid on the disc of the sun. Two, twenty-eight, three hundred and fifty-eight. The moon is lighted from the sun. Two, twenty-nine, three hundred and sixty. Thales et aliai agree with the mathematicians that the monthly phases of the moon show that it travels along with the sun, and is lighted by it. And eclipses show that it comes into the shadow of the earth, the earth coming between the two heavenly bodies, and blocking the light of the moon. Three, nine to ten, three hundred and seventy-six. The earth is one and spherical in form. Three, eleven, three hundred and seventy-seven. It is in the midst of the universe. Three, fifteen, three hundred and seventy-nine. Thales and Democritus find in water the cause of earthquakes. Four, one, three hundred and eighty-four. Thales thinks that the Aetesian winds blowing against Egypt raise the mass of the Nile, because its outflow is beaten back by the swelling of the sea, which lies over against its mouth. Four, two, three hundred and eighty-six. Thales was the first to declare that the soul is by nature always moving or self-moving. Five, twenty-six, four hundred and thirty-eight. Plants are living animals. This is evident from the fact that they wave their branches and keep them extended, and they yield to attack and relax them freely again, so that weights also draw them down. Cicero, on the nature of gods, won ten. For Thales of Miletus, who first studied these matters, said that water is the first principle of things, while God is the mind which formed all things from water. If gods exist without sense and mind, why should God be connected with water, if mind itself can exist without a body? End of Part 8, Recording by Graham Redmond Part 9 of Ancient Greek Philosophers' Scientists This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, please visit LibriVox.org. Recording by Andrew Coleman. Ancient Greek Philosophers' Scientists, a collection of their surviving words reported in ancient sources, and translated by various translators. Part 9, Fragments and Testimonials on Xenophonies of Colophon, translated by Arthur Fairbanks in the First Philosophers of Greece Fragments 1 God is one, supreme among gods and men, and not like mortals in body or in mind. 2. The whole of God sees, the whole perceives, the whole hears. 3. But without effort he sits in motion all things by mind and thought. 4. It, i.e. being, always abides in the same place, not moved at all, nor is it fitting that it should move from one place to another. 5. But mortals suppose that the gods are born, as they themselves are, and that they wear man's clothing and have human voice and body. 6. But if cattle or lions had hands so as to paint with their hands and produce works of art as men do, they would paint their gods, and give them bodies in form like their own, horses like horses, cattle like cattle. 7. Homer and Hesiod attributed to the gods all things which are disreputable and worthy of blame when done by men, and they taught of them many lawless deeds, stealing, adultery and deception of each other. 8. For all things come from earth, and all things end by becoming earth. 9. For we are all sprung from earth and water. 10. All things that come into being and grow are earth and water. 11. The sea is the source of water, and the source of wind. For neither would blasts of wind arise in the clouds and blow out from within them, except for the great sea. Nor would the streams of rivers, nor the rainwater in the sky exist but for the sea. But the great sea is the baguette of clouds and winds and rivers. 12. This upper limit of earth at our feet is visible and touches the air, but below it reaches to infinity. 13. She whom men call Aris rainbow. This also is by nature cloud, violet and red and pale green to behold. 14. Accordingly there has not been a man, nor will there be, who knows distinctly what I say about the gods or in regard to all things, for even if one chances for the most part to say what is true, still he would not know, but everyone thinks he knows. 15. These things have seemed to me to resemble the truth. 16. In the beginning the gods did not at all reveal all things clearly to mortals, but by searching men in the course of time find them out better. 17. The following are fit topics for conversation for men reclining on a soft couch by the fire in the winter season, when after a meal they are drinking sweet wine and eating a little pulse. Who are you and what is your family? What is your acre, my friend? How old were you when the Medes invaded this land? 18. Now, however, I come to another topic, and I will show the way. They say that once on a time when a hound was badly treated, a passer-by pitied him and said, Stop beating him, for it is the soul of a dear friend. I recognized him on hearing his voice. 19. But if one wins a victory by swiftness of foot, or in the pentathlon, where the grove of Zeus lies by Pisces's stream at Olympia, or as a wrestler, or in painful boxing, or in that severe contest called the Pancration, he would be more glorious in the eyes of the citizens, he would win a front seat at Assemblies, and would be entertained by the city at the public table, and he would receive a gift which would be a keepsake for him. If he won by means of horses, he would get all these things, although he did not deserve them, as I deserve them, for our wisdom is better than the strength of men or of horses. This is indeed a very wrong custom, nor is it right to prefer strength to excellent wisdom. For if there should be in the city a man good at boxing, or in the pentathlon, or in wrestling, or in swiftness of foot, which is honoured more than strength among the contests men enter into at the games, the city would not on that account be any better governed. Small joy would it be to any city in this case if a citizen conquers at the games on the banks of the Pisces, for this does not fill with wealth its secret chambers. 20. Having learned profitless luxuries from the Lydians, while as yet they had no experience of hateful tyranny, they proceeded into the marketplace, no less than a thousand in number all told, with purple garments completely covering them, boastful, proud of their comely looks anointed with arguments of rich perfume. 21. For now the floor is clean, the hands of all and the cups are clean. One puts on the woven garlands, another passes around the fragrant ointment in a vase. The mixing bowl stands full of good cheer, and more wine, mild and of delicate bouquet, is at hand in jars, which says it will never fail. In the midst frankincense sends forth its sacred fragrance, and there is water, cold and sweet and pure. The yellow loaves are near at hand, and the table of honour is loaded with cheese and rich honey. The altar in the midst is thickly covered with flowers on every side. Singing and mirth fill the house. Men making merry should first hymn the God with propitious stanzas and pure words. And when they have poured out libations and prayed for power to do the right, since this lie is nearest at hand, then it is no unfitting thing to drink as much as will not prevent your walking home without a slave, if you are not very old. And one ought to praise that man who, when he has drunk, unfolds noble things as his memory and his toil for virtue suggest. But there is nothing praiseworthy in discussing battles of titans or of giants or centaurs, fictions of former ages, nor in plotting violent revolutions. But it is good or ways to pay careful respect to the gods. Testimonials Aristotle Rhetorix 223 1399 B6 Zenovanese asserts that those who say the gods are born are as impious as those who say that they die. From both cases it amounts to this, that the gods do not exist at all. Aristotle Rhetorix 223 1400 B5 When the inhabitants of Elia asked Zenovanese whether they should sacrifice to Lucothea and sing a dirge or not, he advised them not to sing a dirge if they thought a divine, and if they thought a human not to sacrifice to her. Plutarch On Compliancy P530f When Lesos, son of Hermione's, called that man a coward who was unwilling to play at dice with him, Zenovanese answered that he was very cowardly and without daring in regard to dishonourable things. Diogenes Lyertius 920 When empedically said to him, Zenovanese, that the wise man was not to be found, he answered naturally through to take a wise man to recognise a wise man. Plutarch Against the Stoics on Common Conceptions P1084e Zenovanese, when someone told him that he had seen eels living in hot water, said, then we will boil them in cold water. Diogenes Lyertius 919 Have intercourse with tyrants either as little as possible, or as agreeably as possible. Clement of Alexandria, Stromatius VII And Greeks supposed the gods to be like men in their passions, as well as in their forms, and accordingly they represent them, each race in forms like their own. In the words of Zenovanese, Ethiopians make their gods black and snub-nosed, Thracians red-haired and with blue eyes, so also they conceive the spirits of the gods to be like themselves. Aulus Galeus Attic Knights 311 Some writers have stated that Homer antedated Hesiod, and among these were Philochorus and Zenovanese of Colophon, others assert that he was later than Hesiod. Plato Sophist 242d And the eliotic group of thinkers among us, beginning with Zenovanese and even earlier, set forth in tales how what men call all things is really one. Aristotle On the heavens, 213 294 A21 On this account some assert that there is no limit to the earth underneath us, saying that it is rooted in infinity, as for instance Zenovanese of Colophon, in order that they may not have the trouble of seeking the cause. Aristotle Metaphysics 15986 B10 There are some who have expressed the opinion about the all, that it is one in its essential nature, but they have not expressed this opinion after the same manner, nor in an orderly or natural way. Aristotle Metaphysics 15986 B23 Zenovanese first taught the unity of these things, Parmenides is said to have been his pupil, but he did not make anything clear, nor did he seem to get at the nature of either of these things, but looking up into the broad heavens he said, the unity is God. These, as we have said, are to be dismissed from the present investigation, two of them entirely as being rather more crude, Zenovanese and Melissos, but Parmenides seems to speak in some places with greater care. Simplicius, Commentary on Aristotle's Physics 5 v 22 36 Theophrastus says that Zenovanese of Colophon, teacher of Parmenides, asserted that the first principle is one, and that being is one and all embracing, and is neither limited nor infinite, neither moving nor at rest. Theophrastus admits, however, that the record of his opinion is derived from some other source than the investigation of nature. This all embracing unity, Zenovanese called God. He shows that God is one, because God is the most powerful of all things. For, he says, if there be a multiplicity of things, it is necessary that power should exist in them all alike, but the most powerful, at most excellent of all things, is God. It is natural that God should be one, for if there were two or more, he would not be the most powerful, at most excellent of all. If then there were several beings, some stronger, some weaker, they would not be gods, for it is not the nature of God to be ruled, nor would they have the nature of God if they were equal. For God ought to be the most powerful, but that which is equal is neither better nor worse than its equal. And he shows that God must have been without beginning, since whatever comes into being must come either from what is like it, or from what is unlike it. But, he says, it is no more natural that like should give birth to like, than that like should be born from like. But if it had sprung from what is unlike it, then being would have. So he showed that God is without beginning and eternal, nor is it either infinite or subject to limits. For not being is infinite, as having neither beginning nor middle nor end. Moreover, limits arise through the relation of a multiplicity of things to each other. Similarly, he denies to it both motion and rest. For not being is immovable, since neither could anything else come into it, nor could it itself come into anything else. Motion on the one hand arises among the several parts of the one, for one thing changes its position with reference to another. So that when he says that it abides in the same state, and is not moved, and it always abides in the same place, not moved at all, nor is it fitting that it should move from one place to another. He does not mean that it abides in a rest that is the antithesis of motion, but rather in a stillness that is out of the sphere of both motion and rest. Nicolaus of Damascus in his book On the Gods mentions him as saying that the first principle of things is infinite and immovable. According to Alexander, he regards this principle as limited and spherical. But that xenophonies shows it to be neither limited nor infinite is clear from the very words quoted. Alexander says that he regarded it as limited and spherical because it is homogenous throughout, and he holds that it perceives all things, saying but without effort he sets in motion all things by mind and thought. Several of the commentators have made false statements about xenophonies, as for instance Sabinos, who uses almost these very words. I say that man is not air, as an exeminis taught, nor water, as thales taught, nor earth, as xenophonies says in some book. But no such opinion is found to be expressed by xenophonies anywhere, and it is clear from Sabinos' own words that he made a false statement intentionally and did not fall into error through ignorance, else he would certainly have mentioned by name the book in which xenophonies express this opinion. On the contrary, he wrote as xenophonies says in some book. Theophrastus would have recorded this opinion of xenophonies in his abridgment of the opinions of the physicists, if it were really true. And if you are interested in the investigation of these things, you can read the books of Theophrastus in which he made this abridgment of the opinions of the physicists. Hippolytus. Philosophamena, 114. Xenophonies of Colophon, son of Orthomanes, lived to the time of Cyrus. He was the first to say that all things are incomprehensible in the following verses. For even if one chances for the most part to say what is true, still he would not know, but everyone thinks he knows. And he says that nothing comes into being nor is anything destroyed nor moved, and that the universe is one and is not subject to change. And he says that God is eternal and one, homogenous throughout, limited, spherical, with power of sense perception in all parts. The sun is formed each day from small fiery particles which are gathered together. The earth is infinite, and is not surrounded by air or by sky. An infinite number of suns and moons exist, and all things come from earth. The sea, he said, is salt because so many things flow together and become mixed in it. But Metrodorus assigns as the reason for his saltiness that it has filtered through the earth, and Xenophonies believes that once the earth was mingled with the sea, but in the course of time it became freed from moisture, and his proofs are such as these, that shells are found in the midst of the land and among the mountains, that in the quarries of Syracuse the imprints of a fish and of seals had been found, and in Paros the imprint of an anchovy at some depth in the stone, and in Meelite shallow impressions of all sorts of sea products. He says that these imprints were made when everything long ago was covered with mud, and then the imprint dried in the mud. Further he says that all men will be destroyed when the earth sinks into the sea and becomes mud, and that the race will begin anew from the beginning, and this transformation takes place for all worlds. Aetius, Placitor Philosopherum 1.3 Xenophonies held that the first principle of all things is earth, for he wrote in his book on Nature, all things come from earth, and all things end by becoming earth. 2.4 Xenophonies et al. The world is without beginning, eternal, imperishable. 2.13 343 The stars are formed of burning cloud, these are extinguished each day, but they are kindled again at night, like coals, for their risings and settings are really kindlings and extinguishings. 2.18 347 The objects which appear to those on vessels like stars, and which some call diascory, are little clouds which have become luminous by a certain kind of motion. 2.20 348 The sun is composed of fiery particles collected from the moist exhalation and massed together, or of burning clouds. 2.24 354 Eclipses occur by extinction of the sun, and the sun is born anew at its risings. Xenophonies recorded an eclipse of the sun for a whole month, and another eclipse so complete that the days seemed as night. 2.24 355 Xenophonies held that there are many suns and moons according to the different regions and sections and zones of the earth, and that at some fitting time the disk of the sun comes into a region of the earth not inhabited by us, and so it suffers eclipse as though it had gone into a hole. He adds that the sun goes on for an infinite distance, but it seems to turn around by reason of the great distance. 2.25 356 The moon is a compressed cloud. 2.28 358 It shines by its own light. 2.29 360 The moon disappears each month because it is extinguished. 2.30 362 The sun serves a purpose in the generation of the world and of the animals on it, as well as in sustaining them, and it drags the moon after it. 3.2 367 Comets are groups or motions of burning clouds. 3.3 368 Lightnings take place when clouds shine in motion. 3.4 371 The phenomena of the heavens come from the warmth of the sun as the principle calls, for when the moisture is drawn up from the sea, the sweet water separated by reason of its lightness becomes mist, and passes into clouds, and falls as rain when compressed, and the winds scatter it, for he writes expressly, the sea is the source of water. 4.9 396 Sensations are deceptive. 51415 Xenophonies and Epicurus abolished the prophetic art. End of Part 9 Recording by Andrew Coleman Recording by Enko, Ancient Greek philosopher-scientist, a collection of their surviving words reported in ancient sources and translated by various translators. Part 10 Testimonials on Xenophilia Translated by John Burnett in Early Greek Philosophy 3rd edition. Aristotle Metaphysics, 21b, 4, 1001b, 7. If the unit is indivisible, it will, according to the proposition of Zeno, be nothing. That which neither makes anything larger, by its addition to it, nor smaller by its abstraction from it, is not, he says, a real thing at all. For clearly, what is real must be a magnitude, and if it is a magnitude, it is corporeal. So that is corporeal, which is in every dimension. The other things, that is surfaces and lines, if added in one way, will make things larger. Added in another, they will produce no effect, but the point and the unit cannot make things larger in any way. Simplice Use Commentary on Aristotle's Physics, 563, 17. If there is space, it will be in something. For all that is, is in something, and to be in something is to be in space. This goes on ad infinitum, therefore there is no space. You cannot traverse an infinite number of points in a finite time. You must traverse the half of any given distance before you traverse the whole, and the half of that again before you can traverse it. This goes on ad infinitum, so that, if space is made up of points, there are an infinite number in any given space, and it cannot be traversed in a finite time. The second is the famous puzzle of Akals and the tortoise. Akals must first reach the place from which the tortoise started. By that time, the tortoise will have got on a little way. Akals must then traverse that, and still the tortoise will be ahead. He is always coming nearer, but he never makes up to it. The third argument against the possibility of motion through a space made up of points is that on this hypothesis, an arrow in any given moment of its flight must be at rest in some particular point. Aristotle observes quite rightly that this argument depends upon the assumption that time is made up of nows, that is of indivisible instance. Aristotle physics 9239b33. Suppose three parallel rows of points in juxtaposition a, b, c. One of these, b, is immovable, while a and c opposite directions with equal velocity, so as to come into the position b. The movement of c to a will be double a's movement relatively to b, or in other words, any given point in c has posed twice as many points in a as it has in b. It cannot therefore be the case that an instant of time corresponds to the passage from one point to another. Simple issues. Commentary on Aristotle's physics 14034, but if we assume that the unit is something, each one must have a certain magnitude and a certain thickness. One part of it must be at a certain distance from another, and the same may be said of what supposes it in smallness, for it too will have magnitude, and something will surpass it in smallness. It is all the same to say this once and to say it always, for no such part of it will be the loss, nor will one thing be nonexistent compared with another. So if things are a many, they must be both small and great. So small as not to have any magnitude at all, and so great as to be infinite. If things are a many, they are both great and small, so great as to be of an infinite magnitude, and so small as to have no magnitude at all, that which has neither magnitude, nor thickness, nor bulk will not even be. For he says, if it be added to any other thing, it will not make it any larger. For nothing can gain in magnitude by the addition of what has no magnitude, and thus it follows at once that what was added was nothing. But if when this is taken away from another thing, that thing is no less, and again, if when it is added to another thing, that does not increase. It is plain that what was added was nothing, and what was taken away was nothing. If things are a many, they must be just as many as they are, and neither more nor less. Now if they are as many as they are, they will be finite in number. But again, if things are a many, they will be infinite in number, for there will always be other things between them, and others again between these. End of part 10, Recording by Enkou, End of Ancient Greek Philosophers Scientist