 Welcome back to Why In The Morning. It's Tuesday, it's Interpreneurship Tuesday at White River Channel. You can find us across all our social media handled at Michelle Ashira's, where you can find me across all my social media. In this particular segment, we dive into an interview that looks at motor vehicle tracking and also insurance. So in studio, I'm joined by Joseph Munghe. He's the final track founder and CEO and he was also part of 2018 top 40 and the 40. Thank you very much, Joseph, for creating time to be with us. Thank you, it's a pleasure. You're much very much welcome. So you are among the top 40 and the 14 2018. Yeah, true. Right. So which company was you listed? Because I'm considering the map that I learned when I had a conversation and you have serial solar business as well. For 2018 was Finatrack. Finatrack Global Limited, where we are specializing in our GPS technology and fleet management solutions. Okay. All right. So what is Finatrack all about before you even get into So for Finatrack, we were licensed by Communication Authority of Kenya as application services providers, whereby we have GPS tracking devices, which we use to install in vehicles. And once we install them in the particular vehicles, the owners are able to monitor the real-time information about the vehicles and also historical information. So we also coupled these with the added solutions where we are able to help people with fleets efficiently manage their fleets and also cut on costs of operations. So for all of you, have you been running the business? Since 2017. So is Finatrack the main source of other several business or how did it happen, as you mentioned, other sort of businesses that you took? Actually, I started it later on because before that I was also in insurance and I was also in logistics. So basically, I came up across the solution relating it to the current challenges in those industries. Many insurances whereby the car tracking really helps and also in logistics, managing the trucks. Yeah, and that's how I came up with it now, the Finatrack here. All right. What was the market gap that you saw in the market that you felt that you're going to start a GPS car tracker? For me, what's the market? So quite also unique about your company? So first of all, it was mainly on the features. So most companies were offering the basic tracking whereby you can only maybe view the real-time location, the historic playback and maybe switch off the vehicle using your phone. So first, we looked for additional solutions such as voice monitoring and also video monitoring which we coupled it with the device and also our angle was different because we were mainly focusing also on the risk aspect whereby instead of selling the device to just protect the owner, we were able to incorporate it with an element of insurance such that in the event of theft of your vehicle, if you had our GPS tracking device which was certified, you could save on the excess charges which are usually cut and the amount which you want to be refunded. You mentioned something early on that this is the basic aspect of GPS installation of tracks, the trackers. Then quite specifically mentioned like sound tracking and video tracking, what is the difference compared to just going to another company that are going to give me like all locations where my car is, locking my car in a way that no one can actually drive it through my phone even just location. So what is so different about the voice in the video? The video because from our analysis, what we realized was you see for the vehicle aspect, most of the risks weren't from outside, most of the problems came from inside. So you could find if it's a case of loss to the vehicle, maybe Guza, the high probability was maybe the staff were involved or people close to where the vehicle used to operate. So in the event of an emergency, instead of you just knowing where the vehicle is, you can be able to hear the voice inside the vehicle or the people speaking or be able to see the actual footage of the people inside the vehicle. The chances are high you'll identify the people inside, they wouldn't be strangers. Because most cases when it comes to that, most cases happen within people you know. Yes, it's mainly an inside job. Okay, that's very interesting. So let's go back to the type of the best GPS vehicle trackers. And how do you identify that this particular tracker is suitable for my cow? First of all it depends on your needs, what your focus is. So you could find private vehicle owners and commercial vehicle owners have different interests in the GPS tracking. So mainly for the commercial owners, it's cutting on costs and being able to monitor the use of the vehicle. And on the other side, for the private vehicle owners, they mainly consider their personal security, the security of their vehicle. So when looking for a device, first it depends on your needs. Because let's say you're in the track industry, one of your main cost is fuel. So your main focus can be how can you monitor the fuel consumption or the fuel usage? And in the event of fuel theft, how can you be able to know? So you'd be skewed towards such a device. But if you're just your own vehicle, you may not be really considering how much fuel you're spending because you are the one fueling your vehicle and the one using it. But on the other side, you'll mainly consider maybe aspects such as theft and the personal security of your vehicle. Yeah. Let's talk about how affordable this is. And is it a subscription fee that you want us to repay monthly? How does it work? That was also one of our main entry points into the market because we realized most of the people were charging quite a high substantial amount and also had recurring costs. So like for us, our entry product was a basic trucker with also the voice monitoring, which we were able to offer 10,000, a flat fee without any renewal. All the client had to do because for the device, for which to be able to transmit the data, we partnered with Safari com. So they just load in the airtime for the trucker and they're able to use the trucker for a lifetime. Okay. So that is when you want to find the location of your car, you can call and it will give you the feedback. No, us hours is different because we have apps, both available on iPhone 100 and also the desktop browser. So you can be able to real time just log in for many device to your account and you're able to view the vehicle location and you can also be able to see anywhere the vehicle was, anyway it stopped for how long it stopped. Yeah. Okay. Let's dive into insurance. Are there any policies that you're putting in place for the sake of your clients when it comes to insurance? Because for insurance, as I mentioned earlier, we started with insurance. We had registered an insurance agency where we're independent insurance agents. So for the insurance aspect, we partner with insurance service providers. So these are the underwriters who are able to provide competitive rates and proper cover. So in the event of loss, you're almost sure if you've complied with all their terms, you'll be compensated. So where we integrate the tracking with the insurance is mainly on the aspect of theft. Because on theft, what a lot of people don't know, if your vehicle is stolen, you won't be compensated the whole amount. The insurance company will have to deduct an amount. Yeah. How many percent? Yeah. Mostly it's 20 percent. Yeah. 20 percent. So if your vehicle was valued at 1 million, that's 200,000, which will be deducted. Okay. Yeah. That is if you don't have an anti-theft device on the vehicle. But so once we issue the anti-theft device, now which will be for the tracker, now the excess will move from 20 percent to 5 percent. So they still deduct something, but it will be substantially lower. Yeah. And for still under insurance, because you want a company that deals with insurance. Yeah. Let's look at situations whereby a client went away like identify that this particular insurance is good for me in terms of car insurance. So because most of the time is when it all starts, it's always like ferry, like insurance covered everything. But when an incident happened, an accident happened. So it was like a push and pull situation. Yeah. True. But that's a common challenge, especially in the Kenyan market. I think I am really struggling to enhance the efficiency within the market, because the complaints have been for long. So mainly for you to assess an insurance company, of course, the first place is maybe to look at the financial reports. So an array usually publishes this on their website, can easily analyze the claim payment ratio for these insurance companies. So this is a ratio for the claims reported for the losses incurred. What percentage of these claims has this insurance company been able to pay over a certain period of time? And next from that, you can also look for a competent person within the industry. Most probably an independent insurance agent or a broker who can be able to compare with you, these different service providers. Because mostly what happens in Kenya, you find that we have standardized policies all over. So they're not really unique. What maybe comes in as a difference is maybe the cost. So for you, for the amount you're paying, you really want to be given a guarantee of the quality of the service which will be able to benefit from this. Yeah. And is it actually good to ensure a call twice? No, no, no. It's not. Some people used to talk about it as a co-insurance, but it doesn't work. Because even recently, an array came up. It's not an array, actually. It's Aki, the association of Kenya insurance companies. They came up with a unified platform through which insurance for motor vehicles is issued. So once you're issued a cover by a particular company, you can't ensure that vehicle again within the company until your cover is canceled or expires. All right. So let's just break it down for better understanding. So when it comes to an insurance cover, so what does it really cover in specific aspects so that we might just avoid this situation so about this? For the push and pull. So mainly it's to consider the types of insurance. So when you're buying insurance, you'll notice on the proposal form, they've ticked the three boxes. So there's one called the third party only insurance. From that, there's the third party, five and a third insurance. And then finally, there's the comprehensive insurance. Yeah. So these cover different aspects. So for the third party only, once you purchase this insurance, your vehicle is not covered. It's only to pay for bodily injury or death to another person caused by your vehicle. You see? Yes. Yeah. So if you bought that party insurance and your vehicle is damaged, it's straightforward. You have to repay it yourself. From that, you have the next stage, you have that party, fire and theft. So that covers the third party and also covers thefts, losses to your vehicle caused by theft and fire only. And it's there. So they're the different types. The certificate will look similar. It will be the same, but the different types of cover. So one has to know which cover. So it's easy for you when you're going for a cover to pick a different one compared to what you really wanted if you don't seek consultation. Yeah. And this happens to a lot of people who are looking at the cost side of it because it starts the third party only. It's cheap. And then the third party fire and theft is cheaper. And then finally, for the comprehensive, it covers the third party, fire, theft. And now this one covers losses to your vehicle caused by an accident. Yes. Over and above that. Okay. Maybe we're going to the holiday season. And then in this particular season also, the year has been really tough. In most cases, the crime aspect of it has really increased. So in a situation where we have a GPS truck on my car, and I've gone, you know, home up country. In a situation where my car gets stolen. Then, of course, I have my truck, I can access through my phone. So how fast and how fast is it to probably then what are the measures put in place to seek help? Or seek help for it. So the first thing which we'll advise you immediately, you realize your vehicle is stolen before you do anything. First report to maybe the nearest police station or to any security agency within that area. Because that's the first contingency measure. And then from there, you can be able to share with them. Because our app is it can easily share the information with a with a particular security agencies, whether you are able to monitor with them where the vehicle is. And then once the vehicle is at a secure location, let's say in a marketplace somewhere common, you can be now be able through your app, switch off the vehicle. Because once you mobilize the vehicle using your app, the key can't start it again. You have to immobilize it again. You have to return the power using the app only. Yeah. All right. So let's look at it in a general aspect. You being like, I would like to call it like a serial entrepreneur. Yeah. What, how did it all start? Was it via this, you know, truck company or was it under your background, which is insurance? Because for me, my undergrad was in actual science. So for me, I got a little bit background on the insurance. And from there, I went straight immediately after graduating, I did a certificate of proficiency in insurance. And then once I entered the market, my main element was looking at the side of the risk. Because what happens, even if you buy insurance, doesn't cover you all the risks. So in fact, one of the main angles of entering insurance is immediately by insurance, you should assume you don't have insurance. So that means immediately you have insurance, you should take all necessary measures on your end to prevent any risks from occurring. Yeah. So that was my main motivating factor also in founding the Finatra Global Limited. And can we save money through insurance? Receive? Save money. Save money. Yeah. Ah, no. Because there are some policies which say they are saving money. But when you analyze them, that's not called saving. Because what happens in insurance, we call those endowment policies. Yeah. So what they mean is we are covering you for this particular period of time. And in their mainly life, their life insurance policies. If you don't die within this particular period of time, unlike motor insurance, where you pay and the money goes, on survival will give you back this certain amount of money, which will have also invested in some areas. So it will come with an extra benefit on top. So it's not really a saving product. But I think what it's called a saving product, because it's easier for the market to understand. And like me coming and telling you, there's an endowment policy. It will be difficult for me to maybe convince you or enlighten you more. But if I tell you the savings policy, it's easier for you maybe to see it as a viable thing. Tell us, how was the experience like for you being top 40 and a 40? How was that experience for you? And did you come with any opening doors to broader markets? How was the experience? Yeah, it created market awareness. That was my main thing, which I got from it. But for me, I wasn't really working towards it. It's not something which you sit and say, I want to be in the top 40 and under 40. And that's why I'm starting this business. So it was mainly an appreciation of what I was able to do. So I took it lightly. And immediately after getting the award, I just went back to the normal life of operating the business here. Okay. One thing that I've noticed with you, earlier on before starting this conversation, you mentioned that you run a couple of businesses. There were design logistics, then there's the final track. There are six of them and I'm halfway. Probably you've mentioned this. And what is your whole thought behind opening up these different branches of businesses? And is it your way to financial freedom? For me, I can't really say it's the way to financial freedom. The way I look at business, the business is about mainly service. So once I look at a particular area and I see it's something which I can offer a solution for, and I can be able to maybe do it better than it's being done, something which I consider, and I take it up as a challenge. Mainly, most of the business which I've started, so I start by training on it. I do my research, see if it's something which I can do, try it on a small area. If the people like it and see it's something good, the good thing, I have a lawyer on call. So we just call, tell, I have this idea. These are the names which I think can work. Register it. So that's how we get a new company and we run with it. So have you been in employment before? No, never. What was the name of your first company? Before online advisors, when I was in school, we started a company called Walters Trading Company. So we started it as a family, was when I was in campus. So with this, we concentrated on the supplies. It was mainly on construction materials. So for me, it was able to learn a lot about running a business, you know, from scratch. So we were able to start small, we were able to apply for loans, got a few trucks, and started from there. That was, I think, was in second year or something. So by the time I was finishing, that's when I ventured into insurance, because now I had completed my degree. I tried convincing some of my friends, we start, they didn't look at that line as a viable light. So I just went in alone, started now the insurance agency. And then from the insurance agency, the others came along. When you look at the GPS vehicle truck, so who is eligible to start that kind of business too? Does one require any skills, like educationals going to school and all about it? Just who is eligible to start that sort of kind of business? I can't say educational, because for me, in my education background, there was no topic called GPS. Yeah, so it wasn't in school. And I think the main thing in business, because when you look at the educational side, mainly the academic, because like for me, I studied until the PhD level. I can say over 90% of what I've learned. You've cleared your PhD? I've cleared the coursework. It's the thesis which I'm supposed to pursue, which I'm not focused on currently, but I'll just do it. But what you realize is the academic knowledge and the practical knowledge, the scooter disconnect. So for you, you have to get the initiative yourself. If you want to study about maybe GPS, insurance, all of this is available within the market. So there are people who know more than you. There are people who have written content about it. There are websites on it. So if you do your own research, where you're guided by what you're looking at and your goal, you can easily get all this information online. Because I can say everything is self-taught. And looking at all of your businesses, six of them in numbers, are they sustainable by themselves or since you started them, are they sustainable? Of course, there's a downside to running several businesses because you'll find most of the time you're concentrating on the losers. Because when one business is doing well, you leave it alone because it's doing well, you come and concentrate on the one which is not doing well. So you can find that when you do that, the one which was doing well now becomes average as you're trying to lift this other one up. So for me, what I try to do is get a long-term view. So if this is not the core business which I'm doing, but there's a long-term prospect on it, my first objective is to keep it alive. So you make sure it never drains me of money or it doesn't drain me of my time. So if we can sustain it and grow it progressively over time, so instead of looking at how much profit I'll make in one year, I try and look at it maybe in 10 years. And in the middle, what can we be able to do for the people? Because there are some which, like at the moment, let's say the web development, it's not making as much profit. But on the terms of impact, it's causing a lot of impact. Because for the web development on our end, we don't do it whereby we create websites to sell. We look for problems within the market and create a website for it. So for example, one of the main problems which I'm trying to solve in the insurance industry is claims. So we came up with a website called www.claims.co.ke. So through this website, people are able to increase the efficiency of their claim settlement, which is a main headache in the insurance industry. So you can be able to easily report the claim, follow up online, get a lawyer online, a mediator and stack online, and also contact IRA directly through the same portal. You know what I've noticed? With all of your businesses, they're connected, just somewhere we have to input insurance. Is it a conscious decision that you took that I am good at insurance? That is what I know. So everything that I'm going to do, it will have something to do with insurance. Yeah, because for me, I think it's good to consider your strong points. Yeah, like insurance is one of my strong points. And for me to offer value in insurance, I need not necessarily offer it through the conventional way. Because in my line of maybe education, the best, the most appropriate channel will be to go and be an actual officer. And an actual officer. So you manage risks inside the insurance company. So for me, I'm trying to do that outside the insurance company. Yeah, yes. So looking at, so looking back at Phenatrack, it's running for two, three years? We can say three. Three years. So three years. And so far, what are some of the achievements story that you're looking back in your projects? And you feel like, actually, I don't regret studying Phenatrack. We've had quite a number of milestones. One of them is offering GPS tracking to Cooperative Bank, which was one of our key milestones. So hereby, when people are paying for loans at Copbank, we are able to secure the asset on behalf of Copbank. And we also offer the tracking features to the client who was bought the particular vehicle. So that's one of them. We've also been able to offer fleets financing, short-term financing for the vehicles which we are tracking. So we get, there's a contract, for example, which needs trucks like currently we are on Mombasa Road. We're doing the expressway. So they need trucks, but it's difficult to manage these trucks. They're from different people. So what we do, we are tracking these trucks. We have the devices in them. So we can easily tell this vehicle went for how many trips, when it stopped. And with that, we're able to reconcile with the tarnages. We're able to invoice on behalf of the truck owner, and we're able to manage his cash flow. Let's say it's in the middle of the day, we can easily see this vehicle has covered 60 kilometers. It had a fuel of 30 liters. So it needs to top up. So we can able to top up for the client on his behalf. And on payment, we deduct the amount with a little bit of interest, of course. Wow. It's actually solving the problem in the market. A couple of challenges that you're facing in the business? Some of the challenges are mainly human resource, human resource challenges. Because when you founded a business, you were really attached to the business, and you have that vigor. So for you, the clock is not something you look at. Because if you have a project, which needs to be done by tomorrow, we'll do it today. Even if it's until tonight, we'll do it. So for you to be able to gather a team with the same, maybe, vigor or running ability to run with the project, that's the main challenge I can think of on our end. Like getting someone who can incorporate the vision. Yeah. Pick the vision and run with it. How many employees do you have? Currently, about 25. 25 staff. Within the different companies. Has COVID-19 affected any of your employees in terms of you cutting down on staff income? I can say some have been affected. Because you see now, then on the other side, you see, I told you those are downside to having different companies. There's also an upside. Because maybe during this COVID-19, some of the business have really picked. You see, like, let's say the one which I've told you, the expressway. So the expressway started during this COVID-19 period. It has really been big. On the other side, insurance, you haven't experienced much growth on the insurance side. So for the insurance bit, so most of the staff, well, if you had something fixed, it was maybe turned to commission based. Because it was just trying to manage the overheads. So what did you see in the track? Three years, four years down the road. Three years, four years down the road. What does the vision look like? For us, currently my main focus is now outside Kenya. We were really looking at expanding. Because some of our clients are actually venturing up to Rwanda, Burundi. So we are tracking for them from here. So we can also be able to look at need in also these neighboring countries. And also within Kenya, the different counties. Because currently we are mainly focused in Mombasa and Nairobi. So I think there's a lot of opportunity also within the counties. For that, we are really looking towards the franchise side of it. Unlike us, opening several branches all over the place. So what is the plan for the festive season? For us, for the expressway, we're still working also on Christmas. But we will just celebrate as we work. Of course, we'll take a break. But those who will be willing to work, they'll of course show up. Your plans, Joseph? My plans for the holiday. For the holiday, I'll just be around. Nothing much. Okay, so I think you guys find your social media handles if they want to reach out to you. For me, I have a Facebook page called Joseph Mungi. And also have a website, www.mungi.co.k. And the company? They're the good thing with the website. All the companies are inside that website. Quite very simple. Yeah, because if I started telling you, I'd have to tell you about seven websites. Yeah. Before we even get to the seven, we were forgetting about the top three. Yeah, true. So we just head on to the one website and then reach out to others. Yeah, so www.mungi.co.k. We'll be able to get everything. All right, thank you very much, Joseph, for creating time to be with us and talking about matters pertaining insurers. It was a pleasure. We're much, very much informed. Thank you. So all right, that is Joseph Mungi. Fine, Fina Chuck, Fina Chuck, founder and CEO. Oh, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. We'll be right back with more on why in the morning I try to fit for a channel so you can find us across all our social media handles at Michel. I should also find me across all my social.