 All right, welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Sarah from Curie. Thanks for joining. For people who don't know, what does your company do? Curie is an aluminum free deodorant. Um, that is our first, very first product and our hero product, but we've since expanded into body care. So we are now a clean body care company with scent really being the core experience. And you've been on charting. We'll get into that later, but let's talk about this. So for me, the reason I want to talk to you, uh, several reasons, but I've never had a natural deodorant, any product that I actually liked or that lasted more than I would say, maybe three days. And so what problem did you see in the market and what did you figure out? What was, what were people missing? And you just put our product on. So I'm pretty excited to do a little sniff test at the end of this episode. And I'm so vulnerable. See how it works. But I had the same problem as you. I, this was back in 2017, 2016, 2017. I was trying to make the switch to cleaner products. This is when, you know, Goop was started, beauty counter started. This clean movement started to pick up steam in 2016, 2017 around the time when people realized, Hey, you know, I'm spending all this money on organic groceries and paying attention to what I'm putting in my body. But your skin is your biggest organ and what you put on your skin actually does make its way into your bloodstream. I don't think a lot of people realize that. I definitely didn't until I read an article about it and I decided that I was going to start making the switch to cleaner, more natural products, especially the products that I use on my skin every day, like deodorant. So went to Whole Foods, picked up a bunch of different clean products with natural ingredients, started using them, started incorporating them into my routine. And deodorant was the one thing that I could not, I think I bought every aluminum free natural deodorant on the shelf. None of them worked for me. Even like by noon, I stunk. The worst part is you think you're the problem. You're like, why? Yeah, because you're like, no one would make a product. Yeah, kind of like I did to myself. I didn't tell anyone. I was like, what is, what's wrong with me? Am I just a really smelly person? Right. Is it me? Is it my diet? I started to talk about it and talking to friends, talking to colleagues. Even, you know, look, I remember Kim Kardashian was on the Kardashians talking about how aluminum free deodorants don't work. So I realized talking to friends and peers that this was a problem for other people as well. There was this, you know, idea that it's aluminum free deodorants. They just don't work. And so I kept going back to the antiperspirants. I couldn't find anything that worked for me. And I wasn't willing to make a sacrifice. And around that time, I decided to take matters into my own hands, did some Googling, found I have a lot of networking, a lot of conversations, found some formulators that were actually based in LA, which is where I was living at the time, started working with them. And the goal was, Hey guys, let's try to make an aluminum free deodorant that actually works, like focus on performance. This product has to work. And if it can work on me, then I'm going to create a business out of it. We worked on our first formula for about a year. And once we got it right, what was the hard part? Like what is the thing that if you could condense it into just the average listener listening, they might not know the science. But what do all the other brands are not doing? I mean, it really comes down to the ingredients, of course. And we iterated on our formula, that first formula, I think we went through 23 or 24 different iterations of it. Small little tweaks to the actual formula. Obviously it comes down to the ingredients, even different sourcing for different ingredients, not all ingredients are made the same. We made, we went through dozens and dozens of iterations on the formula. And since then we've reformulated three or four times. So it has been a work in progress. It really does, like I said, come down to the ingredients and the science behind it, which is finding that right combination that for us has been, you know, the moisture absorbing ingredients, the odor neutralizing ingredients. The base is super important. What waxes, what oils you use, how they adhere to the skin, your pH of your skin and how that works with the pH of the product. There's actually a lot of science that goes into deodorant. Part of the reason we called it Curie. Yeah. What does that mean? What does Curie mean? It's named after Marie Curie, who was a famous physicist and chemist from the 1800s. I actually did a book report on her in fifth grade. And she stuck with me because she was a trailblazer. She was, you know, 1800s women were not even getting an education. And she was a PhD, ran her own lab, made some discoveries that led to chemotherapy x-rays, some really groundbreaking scientific discoveries. First woman to win the Nobel Prize, only person ever to win it twice in two different sciences. And to me, she just represented, you know, not only was there a lot of science that went into all of our formulas, but also she just represented that woman, that person that I was building the brand for, which is the trailblazers and the go-getters. Was there like an aha moment when you were like, OK, what are we going to name it? And then you thought of this book report. That's an incredible story. Well, actually, there's even more to it. Trademark is something that I highly recommend any aspiring entrepreneurs look into before they decide on a name. And especially before they print packaging, because we had about four names. Pro tip, pro tip. Definitely, you know, hire that trademark lawyer before you commit to anything because we had three or four names that I was in love with. One of them we had printed packaging for and then hired a lawyer. And they're like, yeah, you can't use that name. Sorry, you were like the Los Angeles Deodorant Club. What were the names? I actually it's a blessing in disguise because now I really don't like the name that this was the name that I actually had packaging printed at one point. And then the lawyer was like, sorry, I think like Abercrombie and Fitch owns the trademark or something and we couldn't do it. But it was cheeky. It was going to be cheeky deodorant. Handsets 2020, very grateful. I think I didn't realize that initially I was building Curie for women and women were our first thousand customers were all women. And over the last few years, especially with our partnership with Equinox, we have a large male customer base. I think we're about 40 percent male customers at this point. So cheeky doesn't quite, you know, doesn't work for men as well as when you first launched, what was your first line? Like how many different versions of the deodorant did you have? So when we first launched, we were fully bootstrapped. I started Curie with $12,000 of my savings. I even I think I sold all my crypto for our first production run before the winter storm. So that's good. I hope I hope I mean, Bitcoin had a good run if you got in early enough. Yeah, I got in early and I sold that. I sold it and started my own company with it. But $12,000 of my savings went into our first production run. I started with just one cent because we were bootstrapped. Some advice I got early on that I really took to heart and I'm so grateful for it was Mike, the founder of Soma Water. I had known him through mutual connection and he was like treat the first six months like a beta, like a pilot and do not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on, you know, the fanciest, nicest like branding and design agency. Like don't spend fifty thousand dollars on a website. Like don't go all in and commit because you're going to want to change everything after those first six months. So I really took that to heart. I built my own website. I even designed our first. This is not our that I didn't design this. Yeah, our first packaging. I designed it. Took a Adobe illustrator course on YouTube or something and created our packaging myself. So it was very grassroots, very bootstrapped, humble origins. And we started with our white tea. It was our very first cent. OK, is that your best seller today? It is not. No, white tea is no longer our best seller. But I also like to think I have a good nose for fragrance and that was really important to me in creating the product. I didn't want to just create, you know, I felt like a lot of the natural deodorants like scent was an afterthought. They'd be like, here we go. Let's throw some lavender oil in it and call it a day. Yeah, you see that a lot. Yeah. So I was like, no, I want this to feel again, at the time I was building for women, I was like, I want it to feel like something that, oh, you get a whiff of it throughout your day. And it's, you know, my hair products smell great. Like I want my deodorant to smell great, too. And if I give someone a hug, I want them to like what they smell. And so I worked with a scent house almost as long as I did on the deodorant on the fragrance and landed on this delicious white tea fragrance. It was subtle. I felt like it was something that could appeal to everybody. People say it smells like a spa. It's very soft. It's just compliments any scent, even if you're wearing like a powerful perfume. It smells really nice alongside other fragrances. So that's how we created that first fragrance, our white tea. And that has really the popularity of the scent. Again, I treated those first six months like a like a pilot and that popularity of the scent itself, not only did people love the deodorant, they love the fragrance and that really was what we used to, you know, catapult to the business to where it is today. At what point did you know you were on to something like there's so many different? Obviously, you go to your friends and family first, you get some feedback. But at what point do you go, OK, wow, like this is much bigger than I originally thought maybe or oh, this, this works, this can work. It's hard to say that because I think there were many moments. A bunch of little moments for sure. A bunch of little moments. You know, I worked in venture capital before I started Curie. So I had known, you know, what to look for. What does product market fit look like? That was literally my job. So I had a really good, I think, instinct around, hey, is this working? And, you know, that those thousand raving customers is something you hear all the time. And that was really what I was looking for at the beginning was like, I need a thousand raving customers that aren't my mom and her friends. You know, our first hundred or two hundred customers were friends and cousins and co-workers recognize the name on the sheet. Yeah. And they were like, five stars, best deodorant ever. I'm like, all right, I don't care about your guys opinion. I want strangers to be writing five star reviews and strangers to be repurchasing. And at that point, you know, I, I can't remember what the timeframe was. I will say it did take longer than I thought it would. Building a business was harder than I thought it would be, especially bootstrapped. And I couldn't just go buy Facebook ads. Like I really had to get scrappy and creative. And what year was this? This was, we launched in early 2019. And so this was, you know, the, the heyday of Facebook ads where you could buy, you know, a customer for a dollar, 50 or whatever was kind of, it was getting way more expensive around that time. I also didn't know what I was doing with Facebook ads. So I just leaned into what I knew well, which was organic social media. I was the face of the brand. I was constantly posting on social 2019 was also the time where you could still get organic views on Instagram really hard these days. But that was really what I leaned in on. And then also I just fired off emails to journalists, got a lot of placements, just organic placements and in publications and websites and stuff like that. Alongside, you know, friends and family encouraging people to tell their friends about it and their friends of friends. You're saying a lot of pro tips there that I want to unpack for people. So I remember when I first started, I had a company once and it was at the time, just timing wise, it was 2012, but you could literally like the Facebook advertising, it was insane. I could target you basically specifically. I was like, I know, I saw this person with the high school with them and I know that they're going to buy this product because something and I could target them or and then I could target people like them. It was wild. It was so wild how it used to be. I mean, it was even like that in 2019. I just didn't know how to use it. And I don't think when I look back on it, I'm like, what a missed opportunity. That's how I feel about 2019 because today is even more expensive. But I'm like, I wish I kind of wish I had just brought on. So for entrepreneurs today, it's almost like the tools of today are moving so quickly that it's catch it, like just catch it. And it might not feel maybe it feels like you're behind, but you're not like catch it. Yeah. Yeah. I'll never forget that. And it like haunts me sometimes being like, I wish we spent more. You know, let's have a go. The politicians to that's why I always take advice. Say seriously from founders that are in it right now. Like if you are running a brand right now, that is the type of person that I want to get advice from. It's actually sometimes not super helpful to get advice from someone who, you know, ran and sold a business five years ago or 10 years ago, because the landscape changes every year. So it's really tough to take that advice from someone who was running a brand in 2013 or 2014. Their advice would be like, just, you know, the Facebook machine, you put one dollar in, you get 10 out, like easy. Yeah. For me to be like, get a big cartel website that they don't, the big cartels didn't exist anymore. Shopify took them over. And so there's so many things where it's like even the tools I would mention are useless today. Yeah. And that was not that long ago. At what point did you decide or think about applying to Shark Tank or did they, did they approach you? So a very pervasive theme around me and my business and the journey and all that has been, I basically have gotten rejected. Every wonderful thing that has happened in my business in the last few years has started out with a no, like everything, including Shark Tank. So I applied to Shark Tank once, maybe even twice before I actually got on the show. So I applied. What's your takeaway there, though, on the rejection? Do you feel like, like have you made it so in your head, that's normal now? Like you expect it, right? And at the, you know, back in the world, I'll never give you what you want. Back in 2019, 2020, it would crush me. Like a no would absolutely crush me. And when I say that every great thing has started with a no, I'm not exaggerating like Shark Tank, QVC, Walmart, like Nordstrom, like every, every great partnership, retail, all that. Even the deal on Shark Tank started with a no. Even the deal on Shark Tank. So, but I did apply to Shark Tank, I think two years. And then the second time I got a call back and I got pretty far in the process and then I got cut. And then I finally applied again in what was that? 2021, got on the show, made it all the way through. But the whole time I was like, this isn't going to happen because I had already gone through that. You mentioned you were hiking. Yeah. So what happened was I finally got on the show after trying for years, finally get on the show the night before I was. So I was living in LA at the time and it's filmed in LA. The night before I was supposed to go film, you know, my whole set was there at the soundstage. I had my outfit picked out, laid on on my bed, ready to wake up at 5 a.m. to be there by call time the next morning on Monday. I get a call on Sunday night at like 6 p.m. from the producers saying that I was removed from the schedule. Oh, my God. And oh, also, we're not sure if we're going to be able to get you on the schedule again, but we'll try our hardest. And I was devastated. Oh, my God, that's not common, by the way. It is not common now. The producers are wonderful. I'm still friends with my producer, like it was not her fault. Who was that? Was that Mindy? No, my producer was Kelly. Kelly, OK. And she Mindy is the casting director. The casting, sorry, yeah. So the Shark Tank team is wonderful. They it is TV, though. And they it's it's really tight scheduling. There was a storm on the East Coast and they were like, hey, Sarah's in LA, we can get her in any time. Like, let's let's bump her from the schedule, put her on the standby list. And long story short, I didn't get a call back. We're so sorry we don't have time in this filming block for you. Please come pick up all your set items. Please keep them in case we have time in the next filming block, which was two months away. So my garage was full of like giant Shark Tank posters that basically like mocked me every day when I'd walk in there and be like, what could have been? And then two months later, I kind of forgot about it. Like, I didn't think it was ever going to happen. Did you buy extra inventory? Oh, yeah, bought extra inventory. But Silver Lining is we started to do really well on QVC during that time. I think I went on air five times and sold out every time. So we were doing the business was growing and doing really well. And I got to the place where the point where I was like, all right, I don't need this. This would be a nice to have. It's not a need to have will be OK without it. And then, you know, two weeks later, they're like, hey, second filming window is starting. Please be on standby by your phone in case we have time. And I'm like, oh, sure, like, no way that's happening. Oh, my God, the last day of the filming window, they called me. I was, you know, I didn't think I was going to get a call. So I went out the night before it was a friend's going away a party. I was hungover. I drank like margaritas the night before. And I was hiking with some friends at Griffith Park. And I got the call from my producer, like literally at the top of the mountain. And she was like, if you can be here in two hours, you can film. And bless my husband, because I said, no, I was like, there's no way. I mean, I haven't my hair is dirty. Like there's no way I'm going to be able to be film ready and at the studio in two hours. So I was like, I'm sorry, there's no way. And my husband was like, you had to call them back right now. Like we are going to make this work. And so we flew home. I didn't even shower. I just used some dry shampoo and our deodorant spray and did my makeup in the passenger seat of the car and literally went from the car to pitching on Shark Tank within a matter of 30 minutes. It was crazy, unbelievable and such a good story. Yeah. I mean, it really, really, I think, you know, silver lining of all of it. One, I didn't have time to get nervous, which was great. I walked in there like on just adrenaline pumping so full of energy and confidence. And I think that's why I did so well. I didn't have time to get in my head or nervous. Like I didn't even practice my pitch in two months. And I did you want some ball went. So when you when you see the sharks there, are you thinking it's Lori? Or are you like, who did you want to target? So it's actually, I don't even think I've admitted this publicly. But I did go in wanting Lori. Of course. I loved Barbara as well. I had followed her on social media and I thought she was just just I felt like we were birds of a feather. Like in now that I actually get to work with her, it's like she is incredible. I'm so happy that I got Barbara. But Lori was who I went in thinking I was going to get because again, the QVC experience, I was like, no brainer, but she was one of the first ones out. So that didn't happen. And I went once she went out, I was like, I'm not getting a deal. So there's two things that I remember about your episode that I enjoyed the most. One, it's like really your your your tenacity to go after them. Like there's a like it's a master class people that I think would normally get up on stage and be really afraid or just honored to be in the room with these individuals. You're basically like counter me. Like, give me, you know, you you go in on them. People on YouTube. So good. There's lots of comments on the YouTube video and one of them that's people say a lot is like you outsharked the sharks. Like Mark looked nervous at the beginning. Because you're you're like, well, yeah. And it's and he won't he's so afraid to say no to you. He doesn't want to say no to you. He likes you. He likes your story. He likes your arc. So for anyone listening that hasn't seen the episode, again, this is along with my theme of everything starts with a no. I got on the into the shark tank and, you know, pitched my little heart out. I think I did really well. Again, I was just really full of energy and adrenaline and confidence. And at one point, all the sharks went out and they were all out. Oh, except for Damon, right? He's trying to make a deal with you. Damon enough. He's made a terrible deal with me. Yeah. Or tries to, you know, he's trying to rob you. Terrible deal. Yeah. I think he kind of maybe felt sorry for me. So he just gave me this deal, like a very low ball deal. And so as I'm negotiating with Damon, I'm trying to negotiate with him. And I go, listen, Damon, like nobody that is that foot on this carpet has more, you know, tenacity than I do. Like I just came from a hike. Like I will not quit. Like I, you know, giving all these examples, you know, during COVID, I was up till three a.m. talking to manufacturer suppliers. Like I will not quit. And that is the difference between me and, you know, other entrepreneurs. And I'm giving this, like it was better on the show. I can't really remember what I said, but it worked because I see out of the corner of my eye, Mark Cuban and Barbara Corker and with Corker and whispering. And I'm like, OK, keep going, keep going. I kept it going. And then next thing I know, they. Interrupted it. You resurrected it. I resurrected it and they both offered me a deal. And when I tell you how shocked I was, like I cannot put into words the way I felt in that moment. It was incredible. One of the top ten experiences of my life. I mean, and I get it because they're looking at you outside of your product. They're just like, she's an amazing entrepreneur, period. And so you want to back that. You want to back that horse. Yeah. I mean, that's what it came across. And I think they were like, it doesn't matter what she's doing. And that's what Mark said. He said, you know, I don't I don't really care what she's selling. I want to invest in her, which was really a very flattering thing to say. And it worked out after. Yeah. So after the show, we ended up renegotiating things a bit. And through that renegotiation, Mark went out and Barbara stayed in. So we ended up closing the deal with Barbara and she is fantastic. Like I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Barbara. She is so hands on. She's so all in on her Shark Tank investments. And she sold her business, Corker and Group a while ago. So she's just she has time and is really invested in her Shark Tank companies and really like puts her money in effort where her mouth is and shows up for us. That's your favorite part about her or working with her. Oh, my God, I am like president of the Barbara Corker fan club. Like I want to be like the cousin's name lobster guys. I love her so much. And I think, you know, obviously she's smart. Like I really love brainstorming with her. But what I love about her as a person is like she has such strong values. And like her, the things that she prioritizes, like that is what her life is all about. So she loves to have fun. Like she loves having fun. She loves connecting with people. And that is what her life, how she lives her life. It's all about creating fun and connection with people. And she brought us all out for her like annual summit that she does with, I think she chooses 15 portfolio companies have for Shark Tank companies and brings them to different places and does a little three day summit. And I got to go to the one last year. And that is who Barbara is. Like she got a party bus with a keg and she was dancing. Like she is like a fun, fun person. And that's the way she chooses to live her life. And I love that when you compare. So based on your QVC experience, when you compare that to the Shark Tank bump, are they comparable? QVC versus Shark Tank? Yeah. No. No. Which one's better? Shark Tank. Yeah. Shark Tank. Yeah. Wow. OK. Yeah. I mean, QVC, we do very well on QVC and I go on again and again and again. So overall, if you were to compare, probably QVC, but that Shark Tank effect is real. And I think it depends on the company. You know, I've talked to, I talk to companies all the time. I try to pay it forward because I reached out to a bunch of Shark Tank alums before I went on for advice and they talked to me. So now anytime someone DMs me or reaches out, I will hop on a call and give them my advice. And sometimes those people come back and they're like, hey, it was kind of a disappointment. And sometimes they're like, oh, my God, we're sold. We're going to be sold out for a year. So it definitely depends on the business. I think Curie. I think the episode was great and really inspired people and entertained people. Also, Barbara sniffed my armpit at the end and said it smelled great. And so that definitely helped. But I think just the, yeah, I think just then, and after being in the Shark Tank for an hour, but I think just the nature of my products and how, you know, everyone wears deodorant. So we did really, really well after Shark Tank, but I don't think that's the norm. When you think about the category, do you think like it's changed in the sense of, so this is basically the first one I've used since I had a bad experience, which I could probably say was three, four years ago. It was a while ago where I just bought all of them later. I'll tell you happily. Do you feel like that's a big challenge in terms of the marketing? Or has that gone away? Are you asking if it's a big challenge to like change people's perception? Yeah, change people's perception of what? Yeah, I think that is, it depends. Most people that are trying Curie, I have tried another aluminum free deodorant before. Um, so my, you know, read on it is if you're, if you're buying Curie and you've tried an aluminum free deodorant that didn't work for you before, like you have some hope. That's true, but it's true in the markets, which I call it. Yeah, yeah, it's just hard for us to measure. I mean, I'm sure there's people out there that try a few and then write it off completely. But most of our customers come to us after trying in another brand, it didn't work for them. They saw an ad or they saw us on Shark Tank or QVC or, you know, that's why our fitness studio partnerships are so huge for SoulCycle. Yeah, we're, so our spray deodorant, which is right there, that is in all Equinox clubs worldwide available to use for free in the locker rooms, as well as all SoulCycle clubs and or SoulCycle studios and also, you know, a couple hundred other independent boutique fitness studios. So by offering that as a free amenity and then, you know, there's a QR code on the back or at Equinox, you can go buy it right then and there at the Equinox club stores. That's a really great opportunity for us to, you know, allow people to sample the product and fall in love with it and learn that it actually works before they buy it. Yeah, that's really smart. Where else can people find you? Where are the stores? And you're launching Manila. It's not about the Manila product. Yeah. So direct to consumer. We just launched on Amazon in December. So you can now find us on Amazon. We've been selling out. So no guarantees, but if you can find it on Amazon, that's a great place to grab it. And then we launched at Walmart all 4,000 doors last year. So huge for and how much is it for people who are looking to buy the product each product? Okay. The deodorant stick is 14. The deodorant spray is 16. Our armpit detox mask, which is a best seller, especially for people who are making the switch to aluminum free for the first time, the armpit detox mask retails for 16. And this is definitely a must if you are new to aluminum free deodorant. What it's designed to do is it has cowling clay, bentonite clay, activated charcoal. You use it literally on your underarms like you would a face mask for your, you know, a clay mask for your face. Use it on your armpits. These ingredients help draw out impurities, help basically draw out those heavy metals that aluminum that's been clogging your sweat glands for years and years and helps you start fresh, clean slate with your new aluminum free deodorant. What's on the agenda for 2024 for you? So you're launching in a bunch of locations. And so are you raising capital? Are you making the new products, new lines of products? What's the thing that keeps you up at night now? So we're a profitable business. Congratulations. Thank you. So no plans to fundraise as of yet, but of course that could change right now. We're in 4,000 retail doors. Well, 4,200 if you were also in a couple of smaller retailers. My goals for 2024 is double our retail footprint, which would probably mean getting another big, big box retailer and then also launching some new fragrances. We just launched the Worm Vanilla today. You're one of the first people to sniff it. It's delicious. So we have a couple more. They're all great, by the way. They all smell really, really nice. So we work with Anne Gottlieb on our fragrances. This is like our secret sauce. Anne Gottlieb is if you're not in the industry, she is a scent connoisseur. She's like the nose of CPG is what Wall Street Journal calls her. That's amazing. She's been around for decades. She created Axe Body Spray, all of Bath & Body Works fragrances, Dove. So she's done those CPG big box brands, but then she's also done High End, Jacobs, Estee Lauder, like all these high end perfumes and fragrances. So basically everything from high market to low market, she has created fragrance for and she really, really knows that mass consumer. And we brought her on two years ago to help us with our fragrances, because again, we learned that people loved the fragrance so much that we decided to make that a big part of the experience with Curie and let's make these delicious fragrances that people want to use on their whole body. And then we can create a whole body line around it and really scent being that core experience. So our first Anne Gottlieb fragrance was the coconut, which is our, the coconut nectar is our best seller. Her second fragrance with us is Warm Vanilla, which we think will be a best seller as well. So we're coming out with a few more Anne Gottlieb fragrances this year and then also expanding the body line and we've started to expand beyond body care and that's going really well. We have our dry shampoo, our body wash, our body oil. So we're coming out with one or two more body care products this year. I'm like, can you start up 20 for 20% off, right? You can use start up 20 for 20% off Curie products on our website. That's a fun one for the listeners. Well, thank you. Thanks for coming on the podcast and sharing your story. This is really fun. Great questions. Thank you for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, share with your friends, your family, or anyone you might think might benefit from the conversation we've had today. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. We'd greatly appreciate it. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more people who can benefit from our discussions. 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