 The farm that I work for is all organic dairy cows. Yeah, they go to the slaughterhouse too. No, they don't. Yes, they do. They do not. They've lived a long life. They've lived a happy life. Happy life having their calf stolen? I don't believe you. You don't. No. I think you're lying. So you support a dairy farm that kills baby animals, or like really young animals. And you wonder why vegans have a problem with it. So it's okay if you're in the cows position and you're about to be decapitated. It's okay if you're going to be eaten. That's fine. Yeah. So wait a second. Wait a second. I'm getting confused. Please help me understand. The farmers need money to survive. Like, they need to be able to live. They need to be able to pay for their houses. They need to be able to... So does everyone. Cry me a river. One thing I do respect is how vegans are very aggressive towards meat eaters or our community. Yeah. Telling us that we're wrong. Telling you that you're wrong is aggressive? What's more aggressive? Us having this conversation right now, me saying I don't agree with you. I don't believe you. Or do you think decapitating veal casts for cheese is more aggressive? It's normal. Hello. Why are vegans instead of vegetarian? So basically for the same reason we boycott the meat industry. We also boycott eggs and dairy because they exploit cause suffering too and kill all the animals in the egg and dairy industries. Not all egg and dairy industries. For example, free range hens. A lot of my friends own farms and they have free range hens where they can walk wherever they want. They've got loads of space to walk around and they're not kept in coops all the time. They lay their eggs out, fields and stuff. So it's very ethical for the chickens. So you're talking about someone who just has a couple... That's not an industry. No, she has like a thousand chickens and they produce loads and loads of eggs. Oh, no, that's not good. That's not good. Or for example, the farm that I work for is all organic dairy cows. Yeah, they go to the slaughterhouse too. No, they don't. Yes, they do. They do not. I've grown up on this farm. So wait a second. What do they do with the calves? They let the calves grow into animals. And where do they go? So they keep all the females and they sell the males to... Slaughterhouse? No, not slaughterhouses. So whoever... Where do they sit? They sell them to other farmers. And where do they go then? That's not like... They go to the slaughterhouse. Okay, but that's not the point of... Slaughter is an inherent part of dairy. Yeah, but that's just going to happen, isn't it? I'm saying it's not justified and it's not vegan because of it. If you want to find dairy that's... The thousand hens that your friend has, what is she going to do with them all? When they stop producing eggs? When they stop producing eggs, they just keep them until they die. A thousand hens? And then so her business goes out of business? They don't stop producing at the same time. No, I know, I know, but I'm saying... Does she replace them? She'll get new ones in. And then she'll keep the other thousand and she'll have two thousand and she'll have three thousand? Yeah, but you're not going to have a thousand that aren't producing at the same time. Yeah, but they're not all going to stop producing eggs at the same time. They're not all going to die at the same time. Okay, so you know for a fact that she doesn't send them off? Well, I don't know for a fact, but she doesn't produce chicken meat. So she doesn't send them off to be slaughterhouses. She doesn't have to produce the chicken meat, but she can send them to a slaughterhouse to be replaced. Yeah, but they're not... She's got a business, an egg-laying business. Oh, like, maybe she doesn't. Well, I'm saying you don't have to buy from a big, like, industry company. But do you? No. You're vegan? No, I'm not a vegan. So you eat me? So you can buy from smaller businesses. Yeah, I eat meat. All right, then why are we having a debate about some exotic scenario for eggs and dairy when you eat animals? Because I can understand being vegetarian if that's your personal choice. But me personally, I believe that animals, a lot of them are bred to be killed. Like, they're not bred to, like... Does that make it okay if they're bred to be killed? If an animal is bred and it has a good, like, life, like it's allowed to roam wherever and it's, like, lives a long, good life, and then it's killed, then I think that's fine. It's lived in long enough time. How long? Well, it depends how long it is. How long are the animals living where you get your meat from? From my meat I get from my dairy farm, where... So that's the only place you eat? So outside of your dairy farm you're vegan? Yeah, pretty much. So you're vegan outside of her dairy farm? Where she works? Yeah, nod, yeah, nod. So you never eat meat outside or dairy or anything outside of your six-way? Yeah. Okay. So when's your last time you ate a vegan meal? Um... Where from? Like a movie. Okay, cool. But I'm saying... Are you a vegan? Okay. I'm saying, like, with the... So the dairy farm, the female cows, when they stop producing milk, so after eight, nine years, they'll stop producing milk. And then that's when the cows are sent off to a slaughterhouse and they've lived a long life, they've had kids. So I thought you said your dairy farm don't go to a slaughterhouse? No, that's chickens. All organic dairy cows. Yeah, they go to the slaughterhouse too? No, they don't. Yes, they do. They do not. That's a different farm. No, no, no. I asked you about the dairy farm and you said they keep the females. And then you said... Yeah, until... And then you said that the males go to a farm and don't get slaughtered and I said they're getting slaughtered. But now you're saying after nine years that organic dairy farm... Well, I didn't say the males get your farm and don't get slaughtered. So I said they get slaughtered to different farms where it's not really... Yeah, but then you also told me that the mothers are kept and now you're saying they're actually being kept till nine years and being slaughtered. Well, until they stop producing milk and then they've lived a long life... So why would I be okay with that? They've lived a long life, they've lived a happy life. A happy life having their calf stolen? Well, you could say humans. If you get euthanized, you've lived like a long life and you don't want to be alive anymore. They've only lived like less than half their lifespan and then they're murdered. Yeah, but that's just... How long's the lifespan of a cow? Probably about 15 years, yeah. 20, 25? 25 years. Really? Well, you can just Google it up on your phone right now if you like, but yeah, it's 25. 20, 25. Some lived till 30, 35. Cows can produce milk for how many years? It just depends on the cow, really. Some are slaughtered really young because they don't actually come into calf. So on average, I think it's 6.7 years. But some can be on the higher end, some can be on the lower end. Farmers will kill them for small reasons. Just they're not carving properly so they don't want them and they'll just send them to be slaughtered. Your claim to me here is that you are completely vegan outside of this dairy farm that you work at. I don't believe you. Yeah, well, I don't... I don't believe you. You don't... Nah, I think you're lying. I still don't agree with this dairy farm or this egg farm, but I think that you're making it up. You don't agree with, like, organic or... Nah, I'm just saying that you're making up that you eat plant-based outside of these two situations even though I don't agree with those two situations. You've got a thing there. People didn't have... Is that true? Am I right? No, I do eat plant-based outside of these. Yeah, so you're completely plant-based outside of those two situations? Yes. Okay. You've got to think that, like, people without eating meat and everything, a lot, like, millions of people, all these other jobs, like, like... Yeah. Like, people with bankrupts and everything, they'll struggle with these plants. Do you think it's bad to slaughter cows? No. It depends. It's not bad? Yeah, it depends. So why are you trying to justify it? Why would you care? Why wouldn't you just eat meat out of here if it's not bad to slaughter cows? I do. I think it depends how the cows are killed. Just say, like, a bolt gun in the head and a knife across the throat. Is that okay? It's not a knife, I thought it was a gun. Yeah, if... I know what it is. I said a bolt gun in the head and a knife across the throat. How do they get their head off? I don't know. Then use a knife. I'm saying as in, like, if you know where your meat is coming from, you know, like... Yeah, it's a lot of health. How it's killed, then it's... I think it's okay to eat if you agree with that, but... And I'm just asking if you agree with animals being decapitated so you can eat them. Yeah. I don't mind that. Farming... Would it be okay if you were in their position? Yeah. The farming provides a lot of jobs. So it's okay if you're in the cow's position and you're about to be decapitated. It's okay if you're gonna be eating. That's fine. Yeah. If you've been bred for it. Yeah, so if you're bred... Right, now you found out, actually, you're actually bred to be eaten. We just take you to the slaughterhouse. That's cool? Yeah. Okay. Wow. And you wouldn't mind if you were actually found out recently that you've been bred to be slaughtered and you're gonna go to the slaughterhouse. That'd be cool. If I was in the wild, then, like, I'm in the wild, you know, and I'm left alone, you know, but if I'm in a slaughterhouse and I was brought up to G-Dove, then sure, it's fine. It's great? Yeah. Okay, it's cool. You wouldn't actually mind being an animal in a slaughterhouse yourself, so you don't feel like you're a hypocrite. So murder's actually fine in your eyes? Well, that's the difference, though, because murder is committed often with, like, an objective, like, in a sort of, in a hatred way. Like, if I murdered someone... You could murder someone with a smile on your face, if you want. Yeah, but that's kind of... It's still murder. Murder is just taking someone's life against their will. Stealing someone's life against their will. I don't kill a cow thinking, like, I hate cows, like, this cow's done me wrong. I can just kill you and say I want to eat you. That's still murder. I mean, that's your choice if you want to do that, but, like, you don't kill cows thinking, Oh, I want to kill this cow because I hate this cow. You kill a cow thinking, I need meat, I need to eat meat. You don't need to eat. Do you need to eat meat? Yeah, me personally, I feel like I need to eat meat. And you feel like, I mean, so do you objectively need to eat meat? I think I need to eat meat, yes. And based on what belief? Because, one, I'm a growing person. I think meat is a very important part of your diet. I mean, there's obviously other options for not eating meat, but I believe that... So why wouldn't you choose those options? Because eating meat is the best way of getting protein and lots of other nutrients in your diet. It's the best way? Yeah, I think it's the best way. What other nutrition? What do you mean, lots of other nutrition? So, like, such that if the animal is grass-fed, you're going to get a lot of, like, the... You get vitamins in your meat as well. Yeah, I mean, those vitamins come from grass. I mean, why can't you get vitamins and minerals from plant foods? Well, you can, but... So what's the specific nutrient in meat that...or vitamin in meat that you... You said protein? Yeah, protein. So you can't get adequate protein from plants? Well... And you can't get adequate... Can't get some, but I think the best, fastest way to get it is from meat. I have to take iron tablets, and I think if I don't, I will pass out. So when I'm eating, I'm not vegetarian, I'm more vegan, you know. I like eating meat sometimes. But...and, like, I have thought about becoming vegetarian, like, I'm nothing against people that do that, you know. They have their own beliefs and everything. Well, your friend here is a vegan. Yeah, I know, and I understand that. So if you need meat for growth so much, why are you vegan outside of this situation, this egg and dairy situation? Because I eat from there a lot. So I save about four out of seven of my, like, weekly, like, dinner lunches, like, every day, will be brought with me. So how are they...how are they giving you all this meat if they only slaughter their cows once every nine years? Because... And there's not a slaughterhouse at this farm? It's not everybody's buying from this farm. Hey, one second. How are you getting enough meat to sustain yourself four times a week from a farm that slaughters their cows once every nine years? Until nine years? It's a little more than one cow every nine years. And these dairy cows, right, they go to the slaughterhouse and become meat in their butchers? Is that what happens? They're not butchers, no. So wait a second, wait a second. I'm getting confused. Please help me understand. This farm shop, this organic dairy farm shop that you only eat from, ever, sells meat somehow. Where does this meat come from? Well, because it's not their, like, slaughter... It's not their butcher shop. They don't...it's not, like, solely just meat. So they will be sent away and then some of it will be sent back. Who will be sent away? Cows. So it only sells dairy cows from their own farm in this shop? Yes. What's the name of it? I don't know. Joe comes to us to tell you the name of them. Well, it's a business. Okay, you don't have to tell me. I don't believe you. That sounds like... I know a lot about smallholders. I know a lot about, you know, I know a lot about small farm shops and that. I think you're making stories up, personally. I think the situation exists. Being quite aggressive, but no. I'm not being aggressive. I just think you're making stories up. I mean, it's okay to... I just don't think that this place exists. And I think maybe it's just a farm shop that sells all different animals that are being slaughtered. I'll tell you, it does not sell. Does it sell bacon? No. Just cows. Just cows. Just beef. It's a production. So they have these cows that have been bred for a hundred. They've been treated really well and then they go in to get sorted. Yeah, sure. Get killed. They get sent to the butcher and then come back to the farm market, right, where they sell like the dairy, the cheese and everything. Right. And so the cows, some of the production, they come back and, you know, you get the little packets of ham or, you know, steak or something. You're not seeing things. Anyways, so there's this imaginary dairy farm shop that I don't believe exists or it's, it operates a little differently to what you're saying. That's all. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. It just doesn't exist in the way that you're saying it does. Okay. I mean, yeah. But anyways, I still think that's wrong. Yes, it's still wrong to decapitate those cows. Even after nine years, for a sandwich, I think it's unjustified. You think it's completely fine and you wouldn't mind being in the cows position? No, I think it's completely just fine. If the cows lived a good, like, long life, happy life, like it's had, like, all the space to do whatever it was to do. You mean, no, half of their natural lifespan and having their calves taken and sent away, this is what happens at the dairy farm that you're from? No, calves aren't taken away. You said they're taking to a separate farm. No. They keep all their females and they sell the males to other farmers. If it's males, they'll keep them until they're, like, eight months and they do Roseveal. They kill them for veal. So eight months. Does that sound like living a nice, long, natural life and then getting killed? That's a bit different though, isn't it? Because if there's no purpose for the males in the farm, you're going to lose money. Exactly. I'm not talking about ethics here. We're talking about ethics, right? So you support a dairy farm that kills baby animals, or, like, really young animals. But you are saying this... And you wonder why vegans have a problem with it. They could do Whiteveal. They could do Whiteveal, which is way less effort. Of course. They could bore all the animals alive, which is even worse. But I'm saying that just because there's worse... I'm saying that the farmers need money to survive. Like, they need to be able to live. They need to be able to pay for their houses. They need to be able to... So does everyone. Climbing a river. Yes, it's just everybody else. So does everyone here. But they managed to do it without decapitating. A lot of jobs in the country. Farming provides so many jobs. So does plant farming. But I still don't think it justifies decapitations. I think it does. I mean, honestly, people need to be able to do it. People need to be able to pay their bills. You think it's justified for you to be killed for a burger. I mean, no one thinks that. I think you should be... I don't think that. I think you should be protected. If it was normal for people to kill other people... Yeah, but you believe it's fine to decapitate you and take you to a slaughter. It's illegal to kill a child or a teenager. Yeah, and I'm saying... You're saying it doesn't matter because it's fine if you're raised for food to be killed. You too. What do you eat then? Plant foods. Plant foods. What food? Plant foods. Well, oh my God. Every single... Or a myriad of plant foods. And is your plant food like organically sourced? No. No. I don't think so. I think it's a scam. Mechanics are a scam. Pesticides and everything, honestly. So, can I have pesticides on it? It could be in farmland that... Why pesticides? What's the matter with pesticides? We need them. Pills, bugs. Pills, bugs will help their... They affect mental health and evidence. Do you have any evidence for that? Pesticides that you are. Pills. Pesticides kills things like bugs and bees. They have to because if we don't protect our... And that's killing animals, no? So? So you're saying you came with killing bugs and bees. Even though that's killing animals. In the context of protecting crops, 100% we have to... But crops don't have living feelings. So why are you saying... No, no, no, listen. That you can protect crops and you can't protect things like bees, which are really important to keep your crops alive. Well, no, no, no. We were saying we came with killing insects, yet that's a... Well, in that context, yeah. Well, we have to. So that's kind of... You don't have to. Yes, we do. You can produce plants without using pesticides. No, you can't. Well, not on a large scale, but if you... Exactly. So we starve. That's called justification. That's called justification. But you personally, you can try and find farms or plant farms that don't use pesticides. Organic use pesticide. Are you sure you can find so you can grow your own plants? You ask me if I support organic. They use pesticide, too. It's organic pesticide. You can grow your own plants. We need pesticide to protect our food resources or we all starve. That does not give us a justification to shoot cows and eat them for no reason, no justifiable reason. No justifiable reason. But there's a difference between... I think there is justifiable reason. Do you think there's a difference between protecting food resources, protecting and decapitating a cow to eat them? Do you think there's a moral difference? Not really. Okay, it's the same thing. You've stabbed people on everything. You know, we're mammals, so technically you're killing animals. You've stabbed another human being. I never stabbed anyone to death and ate them. You stabbed them, though. Yeah, to defend myself. To defend myself in the leg. 100%. Stabbed people and solved the fence. I've been a victim of gang violence and suffered from addiction for 12 years. But I don't believe it's right to stab people now, no. And I don't think it's right to stab innocent people then, either. But this was a gang world, it's different. So no, yeah, I think killing people is wrong. I think stabbing people is wrong. I think killing animals in the context of animal agriculture is definitely wrong. It's completely fine. I think crop protection is fine. We need to. So what context do you think that killing animals is okay then? Self-defense? Self-defense. Self-defense. Yeah. If a dog started attacking you, I'd shoot them in the head. Shoot. Yeah, self-defense. Self-defense. No, if I had to. There's another argument for it. Yeah, like if I had to kill the dog to save a human or kill a lion to save a human, I'm going to do it, yeah. You could say, though, that that's their natural instinct. Like, if you go before in a situation where there was a lion going to kill you, then surely maybe that's your fault that you're in that space. No, let's just say there was a lion running loose. Let's just say there was a lion running loose right now. Do you think I should shoot the lion to protect a kid from being eaten? Because it's their natural instinct? I don't think it's going to. Do you don't think it's justified to kill the lion, but you think it's justified to decapitate both animals and humans for a murder? No, I don't think it would be justified to kill a lion if it was going to kill someone, but I'm saying. Okay. So what's the problem? Is there another animal for self-defence? An innocent animal? No. Yeah, but you were saying... The lion's not innocent if they tried to kill our child or kill you. That's their natural instinct, no? I don't care what's natural. So if that's not their fault, then why is it justified to kill them? For self-defense. I just said that. I would kill a human in self-defense if I had to. If that were going to kill my family, I'd kill them. Okay. Self-defense, it's different to, like, what you're talking about, innocent cows taking their calves and killing their calves at eight months old for cheese, a taste that you don't need. You don't kill a calf for cheese. Yes, you do. No, you don't. What point of making cheese to kill a calf? Eight months later, the calves that come from dairy cows will be slaughtered. What do you need to kill a calf for to make cheese? Well, the calves come from dairy cows. They have to impregnate those dairy cows in order for them to produce milk. Yes. They have to. Yes. Or do you think you can produce milk without being pregnant? No, you do have to, yeah. Okay, so they impregnate the dairy cows with a calf. Yep. In order for the dairy cow to produce the milk to make the cheese. So we're starting, like, all the way back. Okay, I see. Yeah, okay. Well, of course, it's the dairy industry. If you produce milk to make cheese, you have to have birthed a calf. Yeah. As a result of birthing that calf, that calf will be slaughtered. So, one second, one second. So, making cheese murders calves. Sure. Okay, cool. But nowadays, you can pretty much choose the gender that you're going to want your calf to. Yeah, sexing. I know sexing means. Yeah, you can do that. And it's not always accurate. It's not always accurate. No. But that's something a lot of farms will choose to have female calves so that they can, they don't have to, like, slaughter male calves as often. But obviously, if one comes, if a male calf is born, male calves are born. And they get slaughtered for cheese. Yeah, you can't do a lot of that. And all those females will get slaughtered too. After they've had a long life. That's the difference, though. If they have a long life, then a long life. They can be murdered at your dairy farm that you only eat from. Maybe they get killed at nine years old, which I don't even believe you exist in the way that you say it does. But in the dairy industry generally, they can slaughter them at two, three years old. They can slaughter them for an eat. They slaughter them at all a variety of different ages. Six point seven years they get slaughtered a day on average. A three and a half carvings. My opinion on vegans, like, there's nothing absolutely wrong with being a vegan. Like, I completely support your lifestyle. Like, do what you want. Like, I'm nothing against it. Do what we want? Yeah. Like, I respect that. But one thing I don't respect is how vegans are very aggressive towards meat eaters or, you know, like, like, we're as long as vegatans, you know. Was that being aggressive? Yeah. In what way? That we're wrong. Telling you that you're wrong is aggressive? Well, no. What if you are wrong? In Britain, you've asked for rights, right? So you can do whatever, well, not technically whatever you want, but what is legal? Do you think humans should have rights? Yeah, we do. Should animals have rights? They have rights. Then they do. In the wild, they do. But if they're brought up from birth to be produced as meat... They don't have a right to their, even their own lives, these animals. They don't even have a right to their own bodies. They don't have a right to anything. You have a right to eat them, which is wrong. But you're saying I'm aggressive because I'm saying that you're wrong. I'm not saying you're aggressive. I'm just saying that community... What's more aggressive? If us having this conversation right now, me saying I don't agree with you, I don't believe you. I think that's wrong. What's more aggressive? Or do you think... Decapitating veal casts for cheese is more aggressive? That seems more aggressive to me. Just for a slice of cheese. Anyways... A slice of cheese, I mean, is for a lot of people. Oh, yeah. So a little few more slices and it's okay. Yeah. All right. Bless you. It's just been like a lot of people rely on me, like me or like some of my family, you know, like... Yeah. You don't need it. You don't need this, right? You don't need me. So I lack an eye in any way. And so if I don't have an eye in... You don't have to stab an animal for an eye in. Well, then there you go. But it's not enough. So I've got to eat meat, which beef is one of the best substances for me to have an eye in. Okay. Well, I'm not your doctor and I don't think you need to stab animals in the throat to get an eye in because you can get it from plant foods and you can supplement it. And that's fine. And you could also have eye infusions. It's easier to stab an animal to death. It's not easy for the animal. Yeah, but it's easier. I mean, if that was me, I'd need to get the iron out of my blood. If you have like a slab of steak, for example, a nice juicy steak and you eat that, you're going to have a lot of... It's flesh. Murdered animal flesh. It's not juicy. It's blood. But it tastes good. And second of all, it's going to... It's much better for me because I've got iron in my system, which will keep me from passing out and having a seizure. And you think that's just... A poor little cow is justified to stab them to death. But it's better to kill a cow than for me to lose my life and not have another one. You're not going to die, though. No, but it can cause a seizure. It's... No, look, I'm not your doctor. I'm not your doctor. I'm not your doctor. I just know you can get iron from other places and we don't have to kill animals to get iron. It's easier access to eat meat than to just eat like a ton of spinach. You already take an iron supplement. I just don't understand. I don't understand why you kill an animal to get that when they don't want to die. It tastes nicer. It tastes good. It tastes really good. There you go. It tastes really good. Yeah. Okay, I'm ready to go. See you later. See you later. So young girls with no empathy at all.