 Hi, welcome. My name is Lily Weinberg and I'm here joined by my colleague Lily and Corral and welcome to Coast to Coast, our second episode. Hey, Lily and how's it going? Hi, Lily. I'm doing good. How are you? Good. Good. Can you take a second to tell us a little bit about what Coast to Coast is about? Yep. So this is going to be our weekly deep dive into cities and we're exploring ideas and insights for how to build engaging communities in times of rapid change. So last week we had Eric Kleinberg on the show and he talked about social infrastructure and how do we design public spaces to ensure that we are keeping a physical distance but really still enhancing and maintaining the social bonds that help our community grow. This week we're talking equity. So tell us more about what and who we're talking to today. That's right. So we're going to be doing a deep dive on public space and equity today and so we're really going to be looking at what inequities does this current crisis amplify and how can we address them in the recovery. What we know, and this is nothing new, is that investments in high quality public spaces is not fairly distributed within our community. We know income, education and race are highly correlated with access to green space in the United States. What we also know is that COVID-19 has disproportionately impacted communities in color, infection, hospitalization and death rates. And with extreme economic and operational challenges facing our cities we'll look into how we ensure equity and inclusivity leads in recovery for our public spaces. So it should be a really interesting conversation. I'm excited to do this with you Lillian. And I know that this is also really important to you too. You've really pushed our time to think about equity issues. And so what are you interested in learning about today? Well I'm particularly, I mean I've heard all three of these guests before so it's great to have them on. And I think I'm particularly interested in kind of hearing which voices are missing and also like how do we really bring them into the discussion because as you've heard me say Lily, I think it's hard for people especially you know folks who are on the front lines to be engaged in this moment. They're doing their service to our country. And so I'm just really curious about how do we build ways to make sure that their voices are still being heard and they're still part of the process. Yep resident driven. All right well so I'm going to dive right in. And so first I'm going to introduce our partners for this and then we're going to introduce the panel. So we have two partners today. Reimagining the Civic Commons and the High Line Network. And so I'm going to tell you a little bit about those partners and then we'll introduce the panel. So Reimagining the Civic Commons is a national initiative to foster engagement, equity, environmental sustainability and economic development in our cities by revitalizing and connecting public spaces. It's a collaboration between NITE, JPP, Kresge and the William Penn Foundation. And the initiative aims to demonstrate how strategic investments in our civic assets can connect people of all backgrounds and create more resilient communities. We are in the chat box. We're going to link to their websites and they have fantastic tools for how practitioners can really be thinking about these issues around equity and public space. So our second partner is the High Line Network. And the High Line Network is a network of nonprofit community leaders with a purpose to share, learn and collaborate on complex processes of reimagining infrastructure as vibrant public spaces. Managed as a program of the High Line, founded by Robert Hammond, who's also a NITE public spaces fellow and funded by JPP. It's a way for peers to share and learn and explore issues of equity where they may not be able to do so on their own. I want to link to Asima, their leader's newest blog post. And they actually are doing an open call for new members. That's due by May 31. So really excited about that. And you should check out their website for that. All right. So those are our partners. And now I have the honor to introduce our panelists. And that's why you're here to listen to them. So we have three panelists today, Carol, Alexa and Stephen. So first I'll start with Carol. Carol Coletta is the president and CEO at the Memphis Rivers Parks Partnership. Reimagining the City of Commons was the brainchild of Carol Coletta. And of course, Carol, you are a great friend of NITE Foundation, formally the vice president of Community National Initiative. So thanks for being here, Carol. Thank you for having me. I miss you guys. I know. It's great to see you. Alexa Bush is next. She is the design director of the East Region City of Detroit. She's been a key partner with Reimagining the City of Commons. And in particular has really focused on the Fitzgerald neighborhood. And has been a great leader with that work. So, Alexa, thanks for being here. Sir, and with Harvard Graduate School of Design, he's the founder of Grayscale Collaboratives. And Stephen, we're thrilled to have you because you've really led the work around equity and equity frameworks for many of the Highline Network projects. So thanks for being here. Thank you. So let's just dive right in. There's a little bit of a delay. So we'll acknowledge that. There's a delay. We deal with these technical issues, but we'll dive right in and we'll get started. So, Carol, I'm going to start with you. Carol, you bring such an interesting national perspective. I want you to set some framing from a national perspective. Why is the Civic Commons so critical for equitable cities? And how is this amplified even more during a pandemic? Kick us off, please. Well, let me just start with a fundamental, right? Public space is free or very low cost. And it doesn't require a commercial transaction to occupy. And you can pretty much stay as long as you want with some minimum requirement for, you know, good behavior, but minimum. So and what's happened over the last couple of months is that public space, especially parks, I think has been rediscovered as the asset that it is to our communities. You know, it's one of the few places right now where people can go to get out of the house, get some relief, see other people, which is really important so as not to feel isolated. And, you know, you can go to our riverfront parks today, which I'm now managing. And you almost feel like the world is normal, Lily. You know, the river's rolling by and the flowers are blooming, the trees are budding. And you think, you know, you see other people and you think, I'm part of something that's bigger than me. And that to me is what the Civic Commons ought to deliver and does deliver every day. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I mean, we've been rediscovering public spaces during a pandemic. And feeling normal is really crucial during COVID-19. So thanks for sharing that. Alexa, I'm going to jump to you. And I would love to hear from you about what you're seeing around neighborhood inequities that are amplified during this time. Sure. So we've been lucky to be part of the Civic Commons partnership. We've been working in a neighborhood in Northwest Detroit for our project and really focused on trying to bring some of the market and economic recovery to the greater neighborhoods of Detroit. You know, for us, we've been in a bit of crisis recovery mode. The city emerged from bankruptcy about five years ago. So we've sort of been trying to use public space as a really critical tool in thinking about what does equitable and inclusive neighborhood recovery look like. It can't just be a construction project and this many units and that many square feet of retail. We really have to think about it as quality of life in neighborhoods. So our streets, our parks, our gathering spaces, all the components of that fabric, we think are really critical to the work that we've been doing in Detroit. I think, you know, it's in a certain sense, we're sort of recognizing the need to really double down. I think a lot of the things that have made communities more vulnerable to the impacts of COVID-19 are the same stressors that we already were trying to take on in terms of poverty, social determinants of health, walkability, safe places to be outside. So if anything for us, I think we're just really recommitting to the commitments, the tools, the investments that we've tried to make in the public realm because it's just sort of even more apparent. One, we were seeing prior to this pandemic some of the results of that work and that investment. And two, I think it just reinforces to us the need for equity and thinking about how to bring a lot of these things, like walkability parks, they can't be seen as a luxury good. They really need to be deployed everywhere and for everyone. Yeah. So you said you're recommitting and you're doubling down right now during this time. And you said something the other day, Nate shared with me. You said, this is the new abnormal. You hate the term, it's the new normal. This is the new abnormal. But this is, we're in a pandemic. Is there anything that, tell me a little bit more, I want to understand, in a neighborhood setting, tell me a few things that you're doing that's different during this time or that you're trying to be flexible around. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I think of it the new abnormal as maybe like this phase of the pandemic. So it's not short maybe as we all had hoped it might be like this for a little while, but we do imagine that we will be able to gather and public space again sort of at the tail end of this. You know, I think what we're trying to figure out right now is really how do we connect with each other. I think for us, the planning process is also really crucial to delivering a more equitable outcome. We need those voices at the table. We're really trying to figure out how do we conduct a public process without in-person meetings. You know, I think there are opportunities like this with webinars, with Zoom, with using the internet. We know in Detroit that there's a huge issue with the digital divide. So we're trying to be really creative, crafty about what tools we can use, about, you know, could we take the idea of a public meeting and sort of blow it up and put it outside. Could we take boards and put them in places, storefronts, parks that people could visit at their leisure and get back to us, but to kind of blow up what an in-person meeting could be in time and space? We're thinking about, you know, can we, we work with neighborhood groups that we call block clubs. So they're sort of like loose informal groups of people that live on the same block. That's kind of our most basic unit that we interface with at the neighborhood level. You know, could we create engagement kits? Could we arm them with tools now that they can't meet in person? Postcards, flyers, stamps, pens, like, how can we help them to continue those bonds and connections during this time where we can't be physically together? That's been sort of the last week or two, what we've really been trying to figure out is how do we continue those conversations? How do we maintain the trust in the relationship so that we can't be together in person? There's also a call to action. I just wanted to sort of respond to the digital divide question. I think it's a call to action for cities to actually map the digital divide and invest or partner with, you know, large infrastructure investments to make sure that those are happening in the areas that aren't served. Because actually, if everyone was connected through the internet and was able to log on the way that we are today, this would actually make it potentially more inclusive because families, you know, people with families could attend meetings. They could mute or listen in when they could. They don't have to show up somewhere. They don't have to leave their kids or find care. So I think, you know, the digital divide is a major issue, but this I think should be a call to action because this potentially could connect people even more to public processes. Yeah. Steven, I want to get into, you've led a tremendous amount of work around equity frameworks and in particular with many of the really large projects with the Highline Network. Can you tell me a bit about, you know, how an organization embeds an equity framework into their work? Tell me a bit about that. Yeah, I think, well, you know, it requires a few things. I think, first of all, acknowledging our history. You know, as we all know, the United States was founded as a slave economy. You know, that's followed by 200 years of Jim Crow segregation, redlining, urban renewal, federal highway expansion, the criminalization of blackness with mass incarceration, community theft through predatory lending, all of this really negatively impacting communities of color and disproportionate ways. And we see the impacts of that now on people's health and health outcomes with COVID-19. So acknowledging that history and that the people are starting from different places and need different supports and to be engaged in different ways. I think a second thing is to really take stock in the present, you know, questioning our definitions of progress and equity, asking, you know, for whom we're working, who has the most to lose, who has the most to gain, what are the broad impacts and implications of the work we're doing. And then once we ask that question, then really finding ways to share power. Power sharing, I think, is critical. You know, recognizing that there are community organizations that are already doing this work and that are deeply rooted in communities but may lack economic and political capital. And so there's really a mutual benefit for larger organizations and projects to be coordinating and collaborating with these local entities so that they can both sort of come out better on the other end. I teach a course at Harvard called Urban Design and the Color Line. We basically work with students to try and design students to try to help them understand the relationship between cultures of racism and the sort of construction of a racial ideology in the United States to support a slave economy into geographies of racism which moves down in scale from sort of, you know, the way people think to the way people spatially organize in cities as a result of the way that we think and act. And then into infrastructures of racism, which really connects, I think, most directly to the audience here and to designers in general, because the work that we do is physical infrastructure making and remaking and reimagining. And so we are in some ways reinforcing those racial color lines, those divides in cities with the work that we do if we're not intentional about the way that we're doing that work. So this year we're teamed with the High Line Network, as you mentioned, and you described them, you know, it's a network of 23 industrial reuse projects across North America. We're working with Urban Institute and the High Line Network to develop an equitable impacts framework pilot, which is a year-long process. We're working with nine of those organizations and we're essentially going through that process of, you know, acknowledging and doing deep dive research, understanding who they're collaborating with, who might not be at the table, and helping them define an equity agenda and a set of metrics to measure their success over time. So we're about halfway through that process right now, but it's been, I think, really interesting to go through. And it's shown that while there are these sort of common histories that we all share that I sort of went through, there are also very particular contextual realities that make a generalized approach to equity not really the point. The point is to go through a very place-specific process to understand the needs there. Fascinating. And so that context really matters and, excuse me, in that muscle, I would imagine around the equity framework is incredibly important during this time. I'm going to pivot a little bit over to Carol. And I would like you to respond to what Stephen said. And in particular, I think Carol, what's been so fascinating about your tenure in Memphis is that, excuse me, is that you really started within your organization. I was really struck by how you started with equity by looking at the people that were in your organization and really leading that way. Can you tell me a little bit about that and if you have any thoughts about what Stephen said? Well, I think the context that Stephen set, because it's really valuable to begin there. And then, of course, he said, then you need to contextualize, then you need to localize. And that's what we've done here. So we really pursue equity, Lily, through a five-part, generally speaking, a five-part strategy. The first is pay an opportunity for our team. Second is deliberately programming and providing free programming, quality programming for people of mixed income and mixed age. So we work hard to achieve that in place at, you know, in place, in time. We have very aggressive MWBE, Minority and Women-Owned Business Enterprise, purchasing and contracting. We work with the community, especially with kids, to shape the future of the park. Alexa mentioned who's at the table, and that's certainly been part of the work we've done. But there's also another piece that, you know, some people would argue is beyond our remit, if you will. But the Memphis Riverfront parks that we manage are five miles of riverfront, and they are adjacent to, on the one hand, a very vibrant downtown, but on either end, and then just beyond downtown, are some of the most economically challenged neighborhoods, income challenged neighborhoods in the city. And so one of the things we've done in each project we've built is to look at those, how we connect the riverfront back into those neighborhoods in very specific and beautiful and welcoming ways. And just one more thought, recognizing that a visit to the riverfront is the only vacation that a lot of Memphians will ever get. We've continued to push a very ambitious transformation of our riverfront in terms of the design and the program. And I think we should all reject complacency around design of public space. I think that's begun to turn around a little bit in recent years, but we're far too quick to accept mediocre when it comes to design of public assets and public space. And I think that's a lot of reason they've been abandoned by people with financial options about where they get their services, if you will, that that the Civic Commons or public space provides. So to, I think we've got to go hard on design and program of these spaces, along with, let me just say, their maintenance, no reason to build if you're not going to maintain, and their staffing. Again, you look at a lot of public parks in America, they are completely unstaffed other than someone who comes around and picks up the garbage. And if we're thinking about equity, I think we've got to think about hosting. And, you know, like, who's the mayor of this space? Who's the host of this space? Who's going to make diverse people feel welcome and feel, like, feel comfortable together? Because we're not very good at that in America these days. And we have to get better at it. And I think it takes staff. Absolutely. And so you highlighted about better connecting the riverfront to, to certain communities in Memphis. And one of the interesting things from COVID-19 in Memphis is that, from my understanding is that that literally the highway that I don't know if it's called a highway, but but there are many lanes of traffic were shut down that are in front of the riverfront. Is that right? Yes, it's actually a four lane road with a median, but the the mayor very suddenly shut it down, Lily. And it it's a road that it's it fast people travel at fast speeds, because there are long stretches with no stop signs and lights. And so it's particularly fast. And it really is a barrier to the riverfront. And the mayor during this pandemic, I mean, you know, you look for bright lights somewhere, shutting down this road has completely changed the way people can access and use the riverfront and I would say it was a big equity move on the part of the mayor because it increased access and safety and comfort and welcome. We are literally seeing people in family groups picnic two feet off of on on the bluff that is high up against this the street. We're seeing people picnic two feet from where traffic used to be speeding by. So our mother's day was lovely. And so that's the kind of thing that you think, ah, what can we learn from this behavior, this experience? How do we observe right and translate design that works better for those kinds of situations? Absolutely. I mean, maybe maybe it'll be permanent. Who knows? I want to yeah. Alexa, tell us some of the lessons learned from tracking and measuring inclusive development and what the role trust plays in this? Yeah, I mean, I think trust is fundamental and it builds on a lot of themes we've been talking about. You know, I think really acknowledging the history of a place and I think it can be really easy to think about some of those events that happened as like big age history in the past, like, oh, Brown versus Board, we stopped segregating. Oh, Urban Renewal, it's a long time ago, but it's really not like that's very much the lived experience in a lot of the communities, I think that face the biggest obstacles and sort of have for lots of very valid reasons, a lot of lack that trust with, you know, nonprofits, local government units, even with each other, that one of my colleagues in Akron, Dan Rice, always talks about, you know, we move at the speed of trust, and I think that's really become a principle that we all talk about. It's really critical, I think, to do the work and to really meaningfully have people participate in the process to feel that, yeah, you're going to deliver on what you say. I think in a lot of communities that face some of these obstacles, you can see a lot of planning fatigue because it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to do a plan and a whole lot more difficult to commit to the implementation that comes behind that. So I think for us, you know, planning where we know in Detroit, we've been, our mayor has had to be very, very, like, brutal sometimes about, you know, we're going to plan here and we're going to have the resources to back up the first few years of project. I think that's really critical. I think it's taught me that, you know, just planning and then saying, okay, the first step is then to fundraise. It's kind of an unfair way to go about the process once you've gotten people to commit their time and ideas. I think going in with at least an understanding of a first project, a pilot, a commitment to something in the physical environment changing is really critical, in part because those changes take so long, right? And there's such an urgency of people who live without this or lacking that or, you know, next to an abandoned building. And I think to Carol's point, that quality of the built environment is so huge, right? I think we need to raise the bar that, you know, people deserve to have a high quality place to live regardless of their income. I think it changes the entire dynamic of the conversation when we're not asking people to settle for something that others don't have to or that we're not asking other people to make that sacrifice for. But yeah, I would say based on the outcomes we've learned, it's really been the capacity to deliver. You know, we've done a lot of short run sort of pop up tactical urbanism type installations in the run up, knowing that, you know, we in this neighborhood in Fitzgerald, we built a public park. We did it in under three years, which felt like lightning speed at a government level. But you know, to the average person, that's pretty slow. So along the way we were doing programming in a number of vacant lots that we then turned into the park. We'd done pop ups to transform our streetscapes with a nonprofit, the Better Block Foundation out of Dallas. And I think actually having people see those interim changes, even if they weren't permanent, really change the conversation to us being, you know, people who came and talked about nice stuff to people who were actually committed to doing it. And I think that actually goes a long way in rebuilding some of those relationships is to actually back up what you say you're going to do with the action that you're doing it. Absolutely. I mean, in you and Carol, both highlighted the importance of quality, quality of the public realm. And Eric Kleinberg, he was on our last episode, and he talks a lot about social infrastructure and how, you know, places as a driver of social connections. And literally during a crisis, that can be a difference of life and death. So really, really important. Last question that we're going to open up to the audience. So Stephen, building on trust, we cannot talk about physical infrastructure like you talked about before, without talking about race. And as you've shown with your work, our cities are taking different approaches very rapidly, you know, opening up streets, pivoting in different ways with shifting streets, temporary bike lanes. Who is really benefiting? I think that's a question that we need to ask, not just in this situation, but in general. And I think it's now it's now that we have an opportunity to, you know, really rethink the way that we allocate public space. It's even more important that we're thinking about this now. You know, as Alex, as you pointed out, open space, you know, is not equally distributed across neighborhoods. There's not equal access to either quantity or quality of open space. And so, you know, the question is, how do we invest in these public infrastructures, these public goods, which will inevitably, if they're sort of successful, increase property values and costs and potentially push people out? How do we make those investments in communities that need and deserve this open space without pushing them out through gentrification and displacement? So I guess one of the questions to ask is who is the work for? You know, is it for developers? Is it to increase tax revenue for the city? Or is it for people? And you know, the high line is an example of a project that was very particularly focused on people. And in the end, what we see is that many more developers or developers in much greater ways have benefited from the space. Obviously, people still do. But the impacts and the benefits were not distributed in the way that Robert Hammond and others had envisioned and hoped with the project. So I think it's really about asking, and this is why they developed, they established the High Line Network. This was in order for them to pass these lessons forward to other projects. So it's really about, I think, anticipating the change that's going to happen from these investments and from these changes in the way we allocate public space. Anticipating that and not waiting until it's too late to capture that value and distribute that value equitably across the constituents and the stakeholders and the communities that were really aimed at serving. So, you know, it's about anticipating the inevitable in some ways. You can't stop the market and you probably wouldn't find a mayor in any city that would want to invest in public space and then not have that generate value. But then how do we capture that and anticipate it and capture that value? But you said something really simple and that's who is benefiting, asking yourself that, who is benefiting. And then I think it reiterates the importance of having some sort of an equity framework and building that muscle. And right now is a really important time to do that. So we're going to, we're going to invite Lillian to come up. Lillian has been getting questions from our audience and she's going to take over to bubble up some of the themes that we're hearing from our audience members. And remember, you can ask your questions in the Q&A or on Facebook Live. So thanks a lot. Great. Thanks, Lily. And what I would just say is because we're short on time, let's try and get some quick, rapid response questions. There's been a lot of really interesting comments that you all made and questions in the Q&A. As Lily mentioned actually, so Eric last week really talked about social infrastructure and one of the first questions we got is that as cities are closing down their streets and allowing for safe distancing while out in public, there's also been a great increase in police presence. So maybe Steven, if you could take the first one, how do we ensure that obviously, especially for communities of color, police presence does not make for a welcoming environment oftentimes and it can create some tension. So maybe Steven, do you have any thoughts on how we manage these spaces in a way where we don't, where we can create a welcoming environment and then maybe, you know, Carol, you had brought up the point about hosts. The person online asked about maybe ambassadors. What strategies come to mind real quickly in terms of using members in the community to really make sure that these spaces are welcoming and working with police, obviously, to make sure that we have a safe and welcoming environment? Yeah, I think you kind of answered the question, Lillian, with the framing of ambassadors. In a lot of up and coming or you know, more, I don't know, more high-end catering public spaces, you know, downtown markets and different things that are sort of attracted a broad variety of people. There are ambassadors that are often hired from within surrounding communities and those ambassadors are paid and I think there's an opportunity to do the same thing in neighborhoods that aren't attracting that broad and sort of, you know, upper-class user. And so I think, you know, ambassadors are one way, community policing. So definitely, you know, working with organizations that are already working with communities and already have a sense of ownership or a stake in a particular public space. But really, when you're working with these folks to pay them for their time and acknowledge the service that they're providing. Alex or Carol, any other thoughts or Yeah, I want to add on to that. You know, we experienced that very thing in terms of police presence coming down with a show of force on our riverfront that didn't materialize in the more in the eastern parts of our city. So we experienced this firsthand. But what it reminds me of and it goes back, I think, to Steven's earlier point and certainly the work that Alexa does every single day. You know, our parks exist within a system of parks. The system of parks exists within a set of systems in the city. And it is very hard. We do what we can do. I gave you our, you know, our six-part strategy around equity. But is it enough? No, it's not enough. We know that we have to be mindful of the larger systems within which we're working and work really hard to collaborate and get on the same page with those other systems, such as our police department. And so it's a, you know, it's a reaching out and understanding that you do what you can do, not what you can't. And so I can't necessarily create economic opportunity. That's not in my remit every day, but there's certain things I can do to lay the groundwork for that. I can't necessarily create a safe city, but I can help, I can collaborate with MPD to help create the foundation for that. So it's really sort of understanding what you can influence directly, what you can influence indirectly, and then making sure you build those networks. If you're not, for instance, Alexa sits in a really nice position. But if you're, if you're not, you know, inside city hall working every day with those other systems, then, you know, how do you create those relationships to give your community a better chance at equity? Alexa, your thoughts? Just to build on that. Yeah, I mean, I think building those relationships are key. I think it even harkens back to Steven's argument about kind of who is this for. If you can be investing in a park and thinking about affordable housing and thinking about the development and actually bringing those actors to the table, I think that's when you can really start to ensure that you're managing all those systems appropriately and it takes as much trust as you're building. I think with communities it's worth investing in that set of relationships with those other actors that are also city builders with you. I did want to throw out just in response to that the question about the host. We're very much looking to do that at the grassroots level in the Fitzgerald neighborhood. That's kind of exactly what we did. We worked with block club leaders, different folks in the neighborhood and kind of gave them stipends and grants to program the park as we were building it and now as it runs in the summer. You know, I think there's ways to think about it as almost a bit of an economic development activity as well. They've often then brought connections to someone who might be catering and provides food. There's like a couple of young men who DJ these events that we do and it actually starts to build up this little ecosystem of commercial activity within the neighborhood. You know, it might broaden how you think about funding it, but I think it's worth figuring out how to sponsor hosts from the neighborhood to really also have it be something that's authentic to people who live there. That's great and that actually answers one of the other questions that was asked. Carol, did you have a quick comment? I guess wanted to jump in. I'm sorry. I was going to let it go, Steve, and you talked about who is this for and then Alexa mentioned it again. I do want to say, look, it's great. Who is this for? That's really great. Let's ask that question. But when I got to government down the street to try to get money for the work we're doing, just to say the more powerful argument almost every time is this is to create economic development. This is to create a higher tax base. This is to create. This is to generate more tourist nights. So I mean, the realistic part is like, I think you're asking the right question, but I also, at least in my experience, when you're trying to sell this politically and get more money for maintenance and operation and ambassadors and hosts, you better have some economic development story to tell. Well, Carol, I completely agree. I think you can extend that question into the economic rationale that's necessary to make these projects happen. For instance, the Highline, that's one of the sponsors for this event, the Highline got over $200 million of public investment in this park. That investment then generates now $64 million a year. So seven acres out of 30,000 acres generates $64 million a year. That's a tenth of the entire parks budget for New York City, Metropolitan. And that's pre-huts and yards. That money goes into the general fund, which is good, but it doesn't go to eat to support the parks. So it doesn't go into the parks fund to invest in parks and neighborhoods that aren't West Chelsea. It doesn't go even into a fund that invests in West Chelsea in parts of the neighborhood that are underinvested that aren't directly along that spine of the Highline. So all I'm saying is asking that question, obviously you need the economic argument. But even within that argument, there's a question about how those funds are distributed and allocated. And if they go into the general fund, then they go into a fund that is paying for stop and frisk and paying for all of these things that are actually detrimental to communities instead of being targeted to help them. So just building on that, because that is a good point. And we're going to talk more about this in this series. I mean, Alexa, you mentioned, you know, these spaces should not be luxury goods. Carol, you made the point about parks are free or low cost, but the reality is we're headed into a recession. Governments are already starting to cut budgets. And, you know, the next fiscal year is where we're going to see even a bigger impact if sales tax, retail, all of that continues to go down. So when we're trying to build collaboration or when we're trying to think about how to reinvest in the areas of the community that haven't been invested in, how do we do that when we know that typically these systems tend to sort of fight at each other and tend to try to get more of that pie, obviously, to preserve and oftentimes public spaces, arts, those are the kinds of things that the library system, there's a great question here around libraries, those are the things that usually tend to get cut. So any ideas for how do we create that shared value? How do we, I mean, I think your point is right, Carol, about the economic development argument, but are there ways for us to do this, especially or strategies right now, especially as we're heading into what feels like a very heavy downturn? Well, one of the things we've argued for in the Civic Commons work is to redefine parks, libraries, trails, et cetera, as infrastructure. Because when you think about it, you know, infrastructure is frequently the first thing you go into a recession. There's always an infrastructure bill, right? We want to put money on the street. We want to do it quickly. Let's build infrastructure. And so let's, you know, restore infrastructure. So why not these public assets that bring people together? It's just never been thought, it's never had the place and we as many arguments as we try to make. I mean, what's interesting is the same arguments don't really have to be, you know, made so many times for roads and bridges and or more lanes. I mean, for instance, so I would just say that we should, the more we can define it as infrastructure, I think the better opportunity we will have to get very much needed funds for these places that are so fundamental to community building and democracy. Thank you. Alexa, you had some thoughts? I would. I mean, I would say since I mentioned it in the beginning, when I started with the city, we were just coming out of municipal bankruptcy, the largest in the country. And I think, you know, haven't had, we're not in New York City, we do not have the budget that a lot of other major cities kind of built back up after the recession. I think what we've really learned and what our mayor has been really smart about our business community has been really smart about is because we're in such a resource constrained environment, we had to get out of that scarcity mindset of, I need this resource and you get that resource and have it be a fight to actually say the only way we're going to move forward is if we come together. So the way that we've been funding work in Detroit, both any investment we're making has really been a multi sector collaboration. The city set a number of priorities where we're committing public dollars, we're working with CDFI partners to raise corporate philanthropy, private philanthropy and we're all trying to move in the same direction. That's really been how we've been able to move forward in an incredibly resource constrained way. It does require sort of a whole different way of thinking about ego, credit sharing, who does what, sort of some cultural examinations of the different institutions, but I think the success we've seen in Detroit gives me a lot of hope that it can be possible with good leadership, I think, to actually come together and work differently when you don't, when everyone isn't in their silo but their own funds working in their own way. The crisis might be a moment to rethink the way that different sectors either work or don't work together now in the spirit of advancing a better shared outcome. Great. So I'm going to turn it over to Lily to close this off because we are at time, but just one quick last question just because I have the luxury of talking to you all. You know, I've been really worried about whose voices are really being heard and how and I think Alexa, you brought this up around engagement and figuring out ways. I mean, when we know that a lot of the communities we're talking about equity, we're talking about lower income communities of color, when we know that they're working these essential jobs or they're unemployed, you know, how do we ensure that they're, how do we know actually maybe it's the question, how do we know that they're actually involved in the conversation, that they're active, that they're demanding as well these public spaces for themselves and it's not just us advocating for them. So I would just leave you with that. I don't know if anyone has any quick thoughts on that and then turn it over to Lily to close this up. I mean, I would say it's also worth even thinking hyperlocally about who's in your network and I think the more that even as professionals, we can also think about who we interact with and talk to that it might give insight or empathy into building some of those authentic relationships with people facing other types of challenges. Thank you. Lily, you want to close this out? Well, I'm not sure. Lily, if you're there, I know we've had a little bit of connection issues. So let me just then, I think we were just going to close it out with a quick poll, just reminding folks online, if you have, there's a tons of questions in the Q&A. What we are trying to do, this is still on your show, is figure out ways of bringing those questions up. Carol, there's tons of questions around how we define leadership. Steven, there's a couple questions about examples around more specific design and equity frameworks. So I just want to make sure everybody out there listening knows that we are getting these questions. We're going to try and figure a way to get them answered and encourage everyone to please answer the poll. And then I would just say thank you to all. This has been an engaging conversation. Oh, there you are, Lily. This has been an engaging conversation around equity. And Lily, do you want to talk about what we're going to do next week? Sure, sure. Sorry about that. I had some technical issues, apologies. But I did just want to, I can't help myself. I love this conversation. I just did just want to invite our wonderful panelists to have any closing final remarks, 30 seconds, 45 seconds, anything that you want to tell our audience of practitioners to leave them with. Carol, you want to start? You know, from a practitioner standpoint, which is what I am now, I think I just want to encourage people who are in very tough and challenging times. All of us are concerned. All of us who have staff working in the field, as we do, are concerned. I've got frontline workers, right? They've been working the entire time. So, you know, I want you to know that what you do is so important. And what your team does, out picking up trash and just keeping the place safe, is so important to how we're able to live our lives every day. But especially when this lockdown has occurred and people, they just need to know there are other people out there. And that, you know, we, there's a, there's community. So thank you for what you do. I appreciate it. And I look forward to answering any questions that anyone wants to shoot my way. Bring them all on. I'm all set. Alexa, any final thoughts? Yeah, I would just re-echo the last point I had just to think about even your own personal network and who's in it and sort of, I think we talk about mixing and we talk about equity, but to actually live it in your own network and not just think about it, for other people or in the abstract, is something good to do. Absolutely. Stephen? You know, as practitioners, the work that we do is in the public domain. And so we do interface with and work with public officials and policy makers. So I would say don't relinquish or think that you don't have agency in rethinking current policies. So, you know, as we're thinking about a post COVID, you know, situation of reinvestment in communities, you know, we really need to push for race equity criteria for federal funding, for federal grants. We need some preemptive strategies in neighborhoods for housing, you know, tax increment financing districts that are triggered when neighborhoods start to gentrify to capture that money internally for affordable housing. And right now, what we really should be doing if we're working on any projects, like in the middle of the project and it's kind of died down and we don't know we're restructuring and re-angling how we're going to finish or engage or whatever to really refocus these projects and think about them as preparing communities to have shovel ready projects for the investment that is going to be coming and to really develop a strong and clear equity agenda as a differentiator to sort of say our project is not only a shovel ready project, but it's going to have this kind of positive equity impact in communities of color, I think can begin to set neighborhoods up, set cities up, set practitioners up who are working on these projects to get the funding that will be coming no matter who gets elected, you know, in this next term, certainly going to be investment in infrastructure and to angle and be prepared to capture that money for communities that deserve it. I think that's a really important point around the federal funds and I do encourage everyone to check out Steven's op-ed. That was in Next City. Let's link to that. So listen, we are out of time. I appreciate the three of you. Thank you, Carol. Thank you, Alexa. Thank you, Steven, for joining us on this conversation around equity and public space. Next week, we will be here at the same place, the same time, 1 p.m. Eastern on Tuesday, and we're going to be looking forward. We're going to be looking at rebuilding new models for public spaces and engagement, management, and partnerships. Catherine at level and Robert Hammond will be joining us to talk about this. They're fantastic and we're excited to have you join again. So thanks a lot again. Bye, everyone. Bye.