 Some colleagues here, and we have pretty much built a place. This is the first time we were holding this lecture in downtown Bosnia. And it's also a very different topic from what we usually do. I imagine that's been part of the draw. That's great. Right off the top, I'd like to thank a couple of people. Events like this take a lot of work to get organized. And so I want to give a big thank you to Ann Vinciguera, our events and communications coordinator. And Lyssa Fields is around somewhere. My name is Kenning Arlwich. I'm the dean of the library at Montana State University. I would also like to acknowledge Jim Thule, who work behind the camera. Jim is the curator of our Trev collection, Trev and Salmonet collection. And Jim, for the last couple of years, has been developing an amazing collection of oral histories. He's traveled to many far-flung places, most recently Africa. And he has put together this incredible collection. And our speaker, Henry, uses actually part of that collection. The collection and this lecture are funded by small endowments that were established in Bud Lilly's name. Bud Lilly was one of the founding principles behind the Trev and Salmonet collection. And we lost Bud a few years ago. But Esther Lilly is here with us tonight. So those small endowments allow us to do things like offer this event for free. But we work pretty close to the line. So we appreciate any donations to the Trev collection or to the Trev lecture. And our development officers, Makayla Bader and Shannon Schumacher are both here from the MSU Alumni Foundation. Makayla is in the back. And I'm going to put her in the back. So my job is to get off the stage as quickly as possible. I am to introduce the introducer. So Dr. Chris Kearns is our vice president for student success at Montana State University. But that doesn't nearly describe who he is. Chris is, I think, one of the most well-read and thoughtful people I have ever met. He's an incredibly interesting guy. I always learn from him. I sit in a lot of meetings with him. And I always learn something from him. He also has a raucous sense of humor. As you will soon hear from his laughter, whether he's sitting there or standing up here, Chris is also a passionate angler. And so when I asked him to give this introduction of interviews, he jumped at the chance. And I think he is very excited. He told me he wrote 36 pages of notes. You'll get your chance. So I think it's probably very interesting for this PhD in comparative literature that he may have spent more time preparing for his introduction and our speakers preparing for his lecture. Chris Kearns, please come to the stage. Thank you, Ken. It's exciting to be here. It's exciting to be here. And Henry told me he reminded me that my job is to be the boring part of the evening. And I will try to live up to it. You're in for a treat. So I want to thank you for joining us tonight to welcome Henry. He is one of my newest friends. He's an Oregon-based author, fisherman, and naturalist, who embodies and distills many of the qualities that make Montana worthy of the title, the last best place for those of us who love the outdoors and all that it offers. As anglers and fans of the natural world, how do we find writers who belong to our best hours when we aren't on the river or on the trail? Those authors who, as Emerson says, quote, we recognize our own rejected thoughts come back to us with a certain alienated majesty. I suspect that, like finding our favorite fishing sites, locating a writer who rings true to our own best experiences is partly a matter of luck, and it's partly a matter of staying open to the possibility of connecting with the world in new and in better ways than we have tried up to now. And connecting to that wider world in new and better ways is one of Henry Hughes's signature themes as a teacher, a writer, an angler, a husband, and a friend. Engaging fully with experience, with all of it, with a whole of existence, denying nothing is on Henry's mind, both first and last, in his memory entitled Backseat with Fish, which you can pick up outside, I believe. In his first chapter, Henry writes, quote, landing a large fish on a light line is realizing high hopes on modest means, and it always thrills me. You must stay firm to what you want, no slack, and crank in when you can, but also let the wildness run or it will break away for good. All living connections demand a little give and take, close quote. In his writing and life both on and off the water as I've come to know him, Henry practices this art of give and take, of call and response that Angling teaches and brings us to. In his last chapter, Henry describes fishing for steelhead with his wife, Chloe. He says this quote, the endless repeated promise of fishing, Henry there writes, the hope that the next cast will be the one that connects you to a fish, and just listen to this crescendo, a fish, a magnificent fish, the fish of a lifetime has to lead somewhere. And where does Henry here's hope that the give and take of fishing will lead? Recalling his experience of Angling in Japan, Henry writes, quote, I thought of silent days fishing alone sometimes sad, troubled, or unsure, when Angling became the language of asking. The fish, a hoped for answer, as easy, elusive, or complicated as any deep truth, close quote. Pursuing this language of asking, which is Angling in Bali, Henry recalls the experience of hand lighting, of connecting directly with sea-growing fishes without the mediation of rod and expensive tackle. There he draws on characters from Hemingway's, The Old Man in the Sea, and from Herman Melville's Moby Dick. Henry describes what he's really after beneath the surface of his lifelong pursuit. Quote, younger than Santiago and older than Ishmael, I wanted to be close to something wilder and bigger than myself. I assume Henry also wanted to be more successful than Santiago, but he lost his fish. In Ishmael, he lost his boat. But maybe it's because they're always losing something that anglers and riders both offer forever mending and trying new lines. Although Henry's discussions of hand lighting were written about a far off island that I've never actually seen, they ring true about the place most of us in this room call home. Montana has to use Henry's language, something wilder and bigger than ourselves. Quote, in all my travels, Henry writes of his time in East Asia, fish and fishing have brought me closest to that inner sense of belonging and receiving something rare and true. As you're about to hear, what is rare and true about the sensibility Henry brings to the arts of angling, writing, and life is his capacity to work at the intersection of so many supposed opposites. Contraries like insight and laughter, seriousness and play, spirituality and, I think, Henry's favorite, carnality. Henry's stories, essays, and poetry show us how these terms that are usually seen as alternatives, or even as warring parties, actually belong to each other, like catch and release. Please join me in welcoming Henry Hitts. Thank you, thank you so much, Chris. Thank you very much for coming tonight. This is a beautiful crowd. Thanks to Montana State University for supporting this extraordinary enterprise. I'm honored to be here. Kenning Arlich, the dean of the library, has done so much. I thank you. He's here with his lovely wife, Deborah Kyle. And there's just so many great people. And Vince Aguera, thank you for your hard work. We've got so many people here. Lisa Fields and Jess in the tech booth there, thank you. So let's have some fun tonight. Let's have some conversation about fish and people. And I am so honored to be in the beautiful town of Bozeman, Montana. So once again, thank you all. Let's consider the fish. Let's consider the passionate blush of red on this gorgeous cutthroat. Look at that power, powerful animal and powerful water. Does it rise to sip a spent spinner? Does it leap to catch a pail done on the wing? Look at these fish. Consider this fish, the mouth, large, full of desire. Look at those colors. These photographs were taken by Pat Clayton, who lives in Phillipsburg, Montana. Extraordinary photographer. Consider the fish, a beautiful creature that lives in beautiful places. I know there are many anglers out there. You know what it's like? Casting, putting that line out, casting, setting it out, retrieving. Think of the sensuousness. You've got air, water, right? The stream is flowing over your legs. You're stripping, you're stripping. There it is, there it is, there it is, right? That is very, very tactile. That is very felt. That is sensuous, okay? And then you've got this fish on. And then what happens, right? Maybe you're stripping, maybe you've got it on the reel. It's getting closer. You get that glimpse, that first color. That thing is a lot. It is beautiful. She is beautiful. He is beautiful. But what do you wanna do? You wanna bring it in. You wanna bring it to you. You want to hold it. We hold these fish. That's important, catch and release. Or even if you're harvesting, you wanna hold that fish. You wanna touch it. It's important. Why do we wanna hold them? Why? Is it simple? I guess you hold the tomato from your garden. You hold your loved ones. A beautiful grayling. A beautiful steelhead. April Vokey. A wonderful British Columbian angler. Holding a gorgeous fish. So the fish is sensuous. It's full of sense in our pursuit of them. Is very sensuous. Is there something more? Can it be sensual? Those words are close, but they're not exactly right. Something more takes place. Artists have made this connection. Here's an interesting piece I'd like you to see. This is by Richard Buncie, who lives in my town. He's illustrated a couple dozen fishing books. This was done on a napkin in a bar. You could tell it's on Buncie's mind. But seriously, it's a beautiful, just a kind of juxtaposition or else. Maybe that's the wrong word. A flowing combination, a confluence of form. Salmon and the female figure in water. Other artists have done this. Here's an interesting image. Look at this tattoo. This young man, you could tell he's a millennial. His underpants are showing. I don't show my underpants. I mean, why? I mean, those are nice. But I don't know why. Anyway, the fish is rising to his nipple. And I mean, it's serious. I mean, it's interesting. And like, you know, a corky or a jig, it's a lure. And the fish is rising to that. So we have all kinds of art, including fine art. This is a lovely piece by Gustav Klimt. You probably know him from the famous Kiss. This is an earlier drawing, 1897, a great Austrian modernist, graphic designer. And look, he's experimenting with forms here. It almost has the appearance of like drawings on a Greek vase. The simplicity of design and line. This is called fish blood. And so this is one of the reasons that kind of got me into this topic. Clearly, I'm not the only one that thinks about human forms, sexuality, sensuality, and fish. So when you heard this topic, and I'm sorry that I'm not a ballet dancer, but the poster got a lot of attention. It's very interesting. But when you hear that topic, sensual fish, what comes to mind? A mermaid. OK, brilliant. A mermaid. Right, mermaids, right? OK, so mermaids are obviously an important part of this idea. Here's a great painting you'll see in a moment here. This is John Waterhouse. You may know his lady of Shalott, famous for depicting moments in classical, mythological, literature, folklore. The mermaid. Mermaid, there's a lot of mermaid imagery and a lot of mermaid stuff in the world. It's an ancient form. There are certain avatars in Hinduism. Avatars to Vishnu that are depicted. Matsya has the body of a fish. The upper torso of a man or a woman. There are very good examples from ancient Babylonia, Assyria. One story tells of an Assyrian goddess who accidentally killed her lover and threw herself into the Mediterranean. And the gods made her part fish. And I always thought maybe that's symbolic of atonement through fertility because fish are really powerful symbols of fecundity, of abundance. I mean, a codfish can lay a couple hundred thousand eggs. A salmon, three to five thousand. A trout, several hundred. Even live-bearing fish, like a whale shark, can have 200 pups. Imagine 200 pups. That's a lot of puppy chow. So, and it's true, I have witnesses living in East Asia and Japan and China. Lots of images of children holding fish. It's a world symbol of abundance and fertility. So, I think that's part of our fascination with the sensual fish as well. Mermaids actually exist in some ways. Well, Columbus thought they existed. He records them. Now we're thinking, God, these guys were at sea a long time. So, they see a couple sea manatees in the Caribbean. They're like, that looks pretty good to me. In fact, dugongs and sea manatees belong to the order Serenia of the Sirens. Okay, so you can see it's actually interesting that taxonomists got on board with this. It's really interesting. You know, Pliny the Elder describes mermaids off the coast of Gaul. And so, there's a lot of mermaids in our culture and they're not all easy to get along with. We have an interesting image here. This is Frederick Leighton's painting, 1857. The fisherman and the siren. Now, this is inspired by a poem by the great German romantic Goethe. And the poem is about a mermaid, a siren, a nymph who petitions a fisherman to stop luring her children away. Now, I love to fish, but if I were petitioned in this manner, I might reconsider. It's a fantastic, it's a fantastic painting, isn't it? So, you know, we all know Hans Christian Andersen's story, The Little Mermaid, 1837, Walt Disney. That was a very successful popular film. There's films like Splash. And so the mermaid, you know, has a lot of currency in our culture. And there have been hoaxes, Barman Bailey, other circuses exhibited crude, you know, taxidermied fish and monkeys and things. They really exist, I mean, you know, they existed. But probably the closest thing we actually have to a human mermaid are the amma of Japan, the amma divers. Amma literally means like water woman. And these photos are from the 1930s. These are free divers, women exclusively, free diving, down 100 feet, gathering, abalone, sea cucumbers, pearl oysters, another photo here. Really beautiful. So I like to think that perhaps in fact, there are some real mermaids in the world. Okay. Now, a little less common than mermaids are in fact, mermen. Okay? Now this is a real mermen. Well, it's a real man. He looks good, doesn't he? So he's actually, this is actually an ad for Mert Taylor. You can look this up. They sell these, this is real. They sell that. That's a scuba knit suit with a silicone tail. And you can actually purchase one of these and swim around your pool or your local pond. And so, what is that, sir? Good way to pick up chicks. Good way. Okay, perhaps, perhaps. Okay. So, okay. Back to literature. I'd like you to hear a wonderful poem by the Oregon poet Laureate of the past, Paul Ann Peterson. And it's called Mermen. And Ann Vinciguera is gonna read this poem for you. Mermen. Mermen. Mother told me there'd be all kinds, hemen, beef cakes, pretty boys, wolves. But to never mention this, someone who risked it all just to rock in the hulky cradle of a boat. A man who says he could walk into a mountain lake, keep walking and breathe. A lover who craves the taste of salt inside of him. Thank you, Ann. A lover who craves the taste of salt inside me. That's a beautiful poem. Paul Ann Peterson, Oregon poet. So, history offers many references to fish as they're related to sex. One of the great examples from classic Greek literature would be the play Lysistrata, Aristophanes' play. You may know it. The women are frustrated with men always making war. So they boycott sex. They say, that's it, no more sex, it's a sex strike. And it was fairly successful. It kind of hurt relations, marital relations somewhat. But these war weary women of wit exclaim, this is a quote from the play, that they could survive the loss of men, but not the eels. Surely you'd spare the eels. So even Aristophanes is clever enough to kind of use a bit of euphemism there. Isis, the great Egyptian goddess, searching for her lost lover, Osiris, finds out his penis was cut off and thrown into the Nile and eels ate it. So he actually makes eels, she makes eels sacred. Lingering on eels a moment. The great Italian poet, Montali, has a poem called Languilla, the eel, where he praises quote, that torch, lash, arrow of love. In Naples, the word Peche, fish is slang for the male organ. And also Neapolitan, and Neapolitan is really into fish and sex, I think. There's a spaghetti dish, a la Puttanesca. Do you know this? In the style of the prostitute. And it has a lot of olives and anchovies. Okay, anchovies. So now we've moved from the eel to long slender finned fishes. Okay, so fish, you're getting it, are often considered phallic. Freud actually says this, okay? But I think they're also yonic. Female, teeming with the yin of water. Okay, certainly shellfish have been associated with females, okay? Sometimes crudely in vulgar jokes, but sometimes profoundly. Botticelli's wonderful painting, right? Venus emerging from the clamshell, the scallop shell. Okay? And there is actually some interesting theories about how male forms and female forms are kind of worked together. And if you'll allow me, you know, the famous Jesus fish, okay? If you put it upright in erect Jesus fish, well, you have a vulvic image. You have a yonic image as well. And I think in the most positive and beautiful terms, it's an image of creation. It's a portal of conception. Again, other artists have done great work with this. This is the brilliant surrealist, the Belgian surrealist, Magritte. You probably know some of his colorful, interesting work. This is called Collective Invention, 1934. I think he's definitely playing with both phallic and yonic images in a marine image. There's a lot of speculation about, you know, is it an inversion of the mermaid with the upper body of a fish, the lower body of a female, why is it on the beach? We can discuss this later, perhaps. I might need a couple of drinks to go further on this one. Okay. Okay. Here's an interesting story. You all know Herman Melville, the author of Moby Dick. His first novel, Tai P, is really a very good read. I recommend it. And it's autobiographical to an extent. The young Melville is Tomoe there and he does jump ship on the Marquesas Island of Nukaheva. Spends some time with the natives. And this is his island lover. This is Faewae, a Marquesan beauty. Okay. And so there's a great fishing scene where they go out at night and catch a bunch of fish, probably the Marquesan sardine. And Faewae is eating these things raw. Okay. Eating them. And you know, Melville, he loves sexual jokes. I mean, the whole title, Moby Dick, is a joke. You know that, right? So, but here's the young lover. Here's Tomoe, a little unversed. Not sure about eating raw fish. Not really sure about, you know, kind of going down on this fish. Okay. What happens in the novel? He opens the fish up. He does. He exposes those slippery pink walls and he eats them and he likes them. He says he absolutely positively relish them. So I argue that, you know, in this case, Melville loved homoerotic jokes, but in this case, it's a heteroerotic joke. He had to feminize the fish to eat it. And I think it works. The sensual fish. There you have it. So, of course, all this eating fish could go in the wrong direction. There is, you know, there are some concerns. I know Montana might get hot in August, but I would recommend wearing some kind of shorts or something. This is Ray Troll. You gotta know Ray Troll, right? One of the greats. One of the great illustrators of all time. Sense of humor, knowledge of natural history, ichthyology, and Alaska based artists. Absolutely love that piece. And so we gotta have some fun with this. So yeah, having fun with the subject, I really meant that. I really appreciated that you put on the poster a scholarly and playful talk. So here's a poem of my own. It's called Slippery Dick. It's about a fish. It really is. It's a common name for a kind of wrasse. It's also a cocktail. Butterscotch, schnapps, and Irish cream. Imagine kids drinking a few of these at spring break. Any case. There's an epigraph here. It's a wonderful ichthyologist, Milton Love. Milton Love, California based scientist. Really, and it's a great name, isn't it, Milton Love? And I've written him many times. We've spoken on the phone. So here's an epigraph for the Slippery Dick. The Slippery Dick is a charming, missile-shaped fish off the Florida coast that is able to change its sex. So this fish, like some species of fish, can actually change their sex during reproductive stress. It's no Moby, my friends. Just some shrimp-sucking Pensacola player. Layered in cream and shaking that purple stripe all over June's new moon reef-tide party. Going great lengths to breed, they'll even flip their sex. Though the terminal male gets the best tail, if you're gonna mate, old Professor Love joked, don't do it half-wrass. That's just like love to humor necessity. This dick reaches 12 inches, the guidebooks say. But most love-it-mits are only half that size. Having some fun. Need a little drink of water after that one. No smoking in this building, right? No smoking? Having a good time, thank you. So, although there's no exhaustive study of the central fish that I know of, I'd like to start one. Other writers have discussed it. You may know this book from the 80s, John Hershey's Blues. Great work of creative nonfiction about where I grew up. I grew up in Long Island, New York, and we fished for blue fish and stripers. And this is a fun book. It's, you know, he sets it up a little bit like the Complete Angler, where there's the fishermen and the stranger in kind of in dialogue. And so, he does talk about some of these connections I'm making between fish and sexuality. And here's just a quote. He says, as long as human beings have gone fishing, they've associated fishes and fishing with sex. This may be because the fluids of human sex, if left unwashed, smell fishy. Whatever the reason, the dream has certainly gone deep. So, in some ways, that's the uncomfortable thing too that maybe, you know, it's good to just bring up. But there's something that moist, sticky, dark, wonderful world of that part of our sexuality, you know, is fishy. And, you know, I think it's okay to talk about it. And certainly, we can find some, you all right? It's okay, we'll get through this. Have a beer, get a beer. Get a beer. Okay. The French understand this, okay? Do you ever read The Art of Eating in France? It's a good book. Have you gone to France? Get this book, The Art of Eating in France. Jean-Paul Aran, this is a quote. Food is meant to tempt as well as nourish. And everything that lives in water is seductive. So, here we are back to eating. Here we go, look at this image. No thai mori, okay? Naked sushi. This is real. Seattle, Portland, Oregon, New York, San Francisco. They have sushi restaurants. I think it's coming to Bozeman. Where there is a nude model, and sushi is served on her, or? No. Good question? It is not. No thai mori, with a man. Actually existed in Japan. Traditional pre-modern Japan, Samurai era Japan. Virtually extinct now in Japan. But of course the West, with all its Orientalist fetishes, brings it back. And Vanity Fair did a great story a few years ago. Confessions of a naked sushi model. That kind of, it was good because it kind of also dispelled some of the feminist criticisms about objectification. I mean, she just subscribed it as a work of art. And also if you've ever done life drawing, or modeled for life drawing, it's very much like that. And so I'm glad to see that people are enjoying themselves. And I think there's something to say for eating fish as also a kind of sensuality. To eat or to be eaten. I had to include a cephalopod. This is Hokusai, the great Japanese printmaker of the early 19th century. You all know the wave, right? This is the same guy. And this is, it's often translated as Dream of the Fisherman's Wife. But it's Tako To Amma, literally in Japanese. Octopus and Amma, an Amma diver. Those women we talked about earlier. And it is meant to be erotic. There's, in Japanese, the dialogue involves the two, Octopi and the woman. It's meant to be very much mutually pleasurable. This may have given rise to some more contemporary a tentacle erotica that is much more pornographic. But Hokusai meant to, it's subversive. I mean, it's transgressive a bit, but it's meant to be healthy erotica. So it's a fascinating piece, I think. All right. Remaining in East Asia, but perhaps returning to a more genteel conversation on the matter. I'd like us to hear another poem. This is by a Chinese poet of the Tang Dynasty. And it's unusual for a woman poet to be writing during that period. But this is by Yu Shuanji, a rare female poet in ancient China, hearing Lee had gone fishing. And thank you so much. Hearing Lee had gone fishing, I sent him this poem. Limitless lotus that matches the color of your summer clothes. Like our length, don't fold your boat into places from which you cannot return. I wish we could arrival the affection of his Mandarin ducks, squidding in pairs around your fishing hook. Thank you. So a beautiful poem. And there's a couple of things there. She envies the pair of Mandarin ducks that in nature and waterfowl do, as you know, often bond for life. And also, I love that line, don't pull your boat in places you can't return from. You got that, right? You know what that means. OK, this is kind of a poetry. It's fun, right? We're getting these metaphors down here, so. OK, I mean, turning back to early Western literature, lots of great examples. Avid, the wonderful Roman poet in The Art of Love says, let your hook always be cast in a pond where you least expect it, there will be a fish. So, you know, again, angling as a way of finding a partner. You've got to keep fishing, OK? This is ancient, ancient idea. You probably know John Dunn's famous poem, The Bait. And I love this poem. And it's, you know, the poem is addressed to a woman who is a master angler who doesn't even need those, quote, curious traitors, sleeve silk flies to be which poor fish's eyes, OK? So this is definitely a live bait situation. She doesn't even need artificial deceivers, OK? Now, is this a poem about love? Well, maybe it says, well, amorously to these swam, it's about attracting a mate. But also, John Dunn was very clever. Some of the poems are very devotional. And one could easily see this also as a story of Jesus, you know, the fishers of men. I love that part in the gospels. And, you know, the fact that there is also a Christian element here of luring people to salvation, OK? And this kind of tension, I think, is interesting. You see this back and forth. Is fishing deceit and trickery? Or is it something positive and good and wholesome? And I think the literature shows that it's both. It's a wonderful ambivalence to all of that. Writing about 1600, Shakespeare makes many, many allusions to fishing. In the winter's tale, King Leonese is very concerned. Leonese is very concerned that his wife is having a affair, that his pond is being fished by his next neighbor. And he wants to kind of snag Hermione and Ketcher. And he says, I am angling now, though you perceive me not how I give line, OK? In much ado about nothing, that crazy play where everyone's like kind of falling in love and mixed up in who they're with and all that, is a great line where Claudio says to Don Pedro about getting the girl. Bait the hook well, this fish will bite. In our fellow, Yago implies some ladies give up the cod's head for the salmon's tail. In other words, give up men for women. The cod's head, as in codpiece, for the salmon's tail. So Shakespeare's got it all covered. This is where it really shines. This is a painting by Lawrence Olmatadma, 1884. But in the play, Anthony and Cleopatra, there's some great lines about fishing. And Cleopatra likens seducing Anthony to angling for, quote, tawny finned fishes. My bended hook shall pierce their slimy jaws as I draw them up. I'll think everyone in Anthony and say, aha, you're caught. So Shakespeare alludes to a story that Plutarch recounts. And it's quite elaborate about Anthony and Cleopatra. This is her royal barge. I wish it were a fishing pole, but I think it's receptor. What can I say? But Plutarch says that they did a lot of fishing. So on the first day, Cleopatra is really catching a lot of fish, a lot of nile perch. And Anthony is like getting skunked. And his manhoods at stake here. He's a big Roman council. So the next day, they go fishing. And he has his men put fish on the line. Yeah, so Anthony is like, here we go, here we go. Here's another one. And so Cleopatra is like, OK, I got this guy. The next day, she has her people put a giant salted fish from the Black Sea, a tuna. We think it's a tuna. So he's like, whoa, whoa, he pulls this thing up. And the Egyptian is like, oh, I'm like, this is ridiculous. They're cracking up. And this is Anthony. So he's like, before his pride is critically harmed, I love this, right? Cleopatra says, better to leave fishing to us poor Egyptians. Your game is conquering kingdoms. So she saves his ego. And in fact, Caesar makes reference to Anthony fishing, gambling, and playing around with Cleopatra. And so here again, fishing is connected to a kind of reckless leisure, as opposed to Roman virtue of building empire. And this ambivalence exists a lot in fishing literature. I think it's interesting. Isaac Walton clearly thought fishing was virtuous, godly, developed patience, and all those skills. It goes back even further, right? Dame Juliana Berners, the famous nun who we think wrote one of the first treatises on fishing, the Book of St. Albans, fishing is godly. But it's also, you know, Rip Van Winkle, Washington Irving's Lazy Bum, sitting on a rock fishing all day when he should be working. So fishing has this curious balance. Is it a waste of time, or is it good? And I think with women anglers, this is interesting. Here's a lovely virtuous woman in her white blouse, hooked this nice pike and pressed the man. Or is it Miss Hook, actual painting from Thailand in a monastery? The inscription says Miss Hook. Then it says, see reverse side. What it is, it's an admonishment to women in the monastery to dress properly, OK? Now, I look at this and I say, this is an admonishment? I mean, that would be like an idea. And she looks friendly. I actually consulted one of my friends who's a Thai scholar. He did the translation for me. And he was puzzled, too. It's like, really? It's like, the warning is more interesting than the supposed negative result. So this is actually Miss Hook. And you can see perhaps there are many ways of looking at this. I want to point out that, certainly, fishing as courtship, angling for love, happens with both male and female protagonists. And I'll read you a couple of stanzas of a very famous poem by William Butler Yates, the song of the wandering Angus. Based on, again, the Celtic God, Angus who searches, searches, searches, searches for his love. And Yates is a great, it's a great fishing poem. I went out to the hazel wood because a fire was in my head and cut and peeled the hazel wand and hooked a berry to a thread. And when white maws were on the wing and moth-like stars were flickering out, I dropped the berry in a stream and caught a little silver trout. When I had laid it on the floor, I went to blow the fire aflame, but something rustled on the floor and someone called me by my name. It had become a glimmering girl with apple blossom in her hair who called me by my name and ran and faded through the brightening air. So here, you know, he catches a trout that becomes a beautiful girl and that's love. There's so many wonderful examples. Lorca, who was gay, compares chasing a love to fishing. That lover from Granada who will not bite. There's so much great fishing literature connected to this. I think Kisi, the wonderful Oregon novel, one from the cuckoo's nest is a fishing scene. It's with the prostitute candy. The book Catch 22, Joe Heller's book. I think Yossarian goes through a psychiatrist and he's having dreams and the psychiatrist says, well, is it a fish dream or a sex dream? I think Yossarian says it's both, you know? So Greg Keeler, you're with us tonight. Where's Greg? Yeah, Greg. Greg has a wonderful sonnet, no center, where he addresses a man who, quote, in REM sleep gets girls and trout confused. It absolutely happens to me. So I'm interested in this inhabiting the fish, too. You know, inhabiting the fish, the fish inhabiting us. So we're gonna hear another poem. Anne's gonna read a poem by Roseanne Lloyd, the song of the fisherman's lover. Thank you, Anne. The song of the fisherman's lover. You stomp your way through the tangled brush, the walking shore. Listen, the light in the water shone these rainbows across my skin. The amber sand, my belly full of row. I know the streams freeze veins blue as ice. Rocks cut swifter than knives. The children who love so well turns gray, turns glitter. Follow the smell, see my speckles burn. I'll be glassy eyed and quick, teasing feathers, the silver spinners. Using every inlet, I'll dance up over the hills and ridges, where the rock waters rush deeper canons, through the white spray to thinner air. Hurry, the last arched to the highest waters. Wait madly for the split suspension in air. Then head and tail at once, the head for a thigh sluts, thousands of eggs slidling down. Maddened and drunk with honey, you lumber from the brush, splash and growl, say slime and fur and water which draws you into me. Dip me from the water, bite the gash, save fish, save men. Thank you, Anne. So Roseanne Lloyd's wonderful poem, the Song of the Fisherman's Lover. Notice how it's a surprise there, the bear emerges and eats the fish. And so this notion too, I think of fish and animal sexuality, reproduction, eating, these things are combined in all sorts of ways. And again, how are we made of fish? And here's a really interesting image. An Italian Renaissance painting, Giuseppe Acraboldo. This painting is from 1566. And this is water. He did four elements, fire, air, earth. And I love this piece because you start breaking down what would a human be like if they were made of water? You have the protective carapace of the crab. You have a mouth of a shark, right? An appetite of a shark. You got a coral perhaps for a crown. Then look at the brain. There's a marine mammal, a seal. There's also a perch. I think I have perch brains sometimes. I think I'm guilty of that. But it's an extraordinary image because it's unlike a lot of the Academy Renaissance painting. And Acraboldo is used by modernists because he did weird assemblages of this sort in form and body, OK? So the next images I want to show you are perhaps some of the most striking. Let's see. The lovely Julie Christie, a British actress with a haul from New Haven. These are the images from Fish Love UK, a fantastic organization, a British organization that is committed to stopping overfishing. And so it was founded in 2009 by Nicholas Roll with the British actress Greta Scottke. And they're based out of a restaurant down in Brighton, which is due south of London, right there on the channel, Moshimo, a Japanese restaurant that has set up a wonderful fund to try to bring consciousness about overfishing. I won't get into politics. My wife is British. Brexit, oh my goodness, it's crazy. Fishing was actually one of the issues behind a pro-Brexit movement. But if you want any Q&A, I'll answer honestly. But I love what Fish Love UK is doing. I thank them for these images. OK, here we go. Let's see another. OK, it's not me. I know. But I'm getting in better shape this year. It's one of my resolutions. No, it's true. And I'm going to eat more fish. I'm going to eat lean protein. I'm going to exercise this Gary Avis Royal Ballet with a mahi mahi. Let's see another one. There's Greta. Greta Scottke with a cod. I think she looks great with a cod. Josh Brolin looks like a wahoo, King Mackerel. Maybe I should inspire more to that look. I don't know, you tell me. Chippochang, Zimbabwe actress living in London with a gray mullet. Here's a famous one. Helena Bonham Carter. And you know her from a lot of American films as well, with a big eye tuna. She had a lot of reluctance. As you might imagine, these are dead fish. And you're naked. And you've got to embrace it. And she talked about this in an interview that she just felt it's prickly. It's yucky. I shouldn't be doing this. But the cause is so good. And eventually, she got into it. And she said, she really bonded with the fish. This is true. I'm not making this up. It's in an interview. But I think that's why we're looking at these images. And people, they got mixed reviews. But I think what's happening here, it's like we're breaking down the barriers between us and animals that we eat. This is not picking up a piece of fish wrapped in cellophane at the supermarket. This is embracing the fish. I mean, you're really kind of expressing a vulnerability. Skin to scale, flesh to flesh. Emma Thompson and her husband with black scabbard fish. Now the independent, which is a British newspaper, a little left or right of center, a little conservative, they call those fish oily bondage ropes. And they were a little critical. People have been critical of these. They're like, well, is it really doing anything for conservation? It's just sensationalism and sex cells. Well, so what? If it makes people think about overfishing and about the things we eat, I'm all for it. And of course, we are celebrating trout and salmonids. So here is the lovely German actress, Christian Paul, with a wild Atlantic salmon. So that's a very important fish stock that we're concerned about. Well, my final set of images comes from a very different place. Here's a still from the short film Opéci, a Brazilian film made by the director, Jonathan Andrade in 2016. It's a short, again, 38 minutes. He films it in color rich, 16 millimeter. These were filmed up in the northeast part of Brazil, where the real South Frisco drains into the Atlantic. And we're going to watch a short video clip. And it's an unusual piece. Let's take a look at it and let's see what we think. Here's an indigenous fisherman holding a large tilapia, caressing the fish. It does distress me that the fish is gasping, watch his hands, watch his gestures. He kisses the fish. Embraces the fish. Is this a paradox? The man is going to kill and eat this fish. Why is he loving it in this way? He even moves his hands into the gills, which we know is death for a fish. So that's Opéci, a fantastic Brazilian film. Again, people, they got pretty good reviews in the art world. It was in museums in New York, but the New York Times, people asked, what are you really trying to do? Now, the director actually says that he asks them to do this. This is not a behavior of these natives. And he's honest about that. In some ways he's kind of making fun or pushing back on those ethnographic films that we're so used to seeing, National Geographic. He's using it, I think, again, like Fish Love UK to raise consciousness. Maybe ask that question. They do love their fish, but they're eating them. They're killing them. And so we can talk about that at some point, but I think it's a wonderful example of a paradox that seems to resolve something. Well, why have this discussion? Why go to these lengths to talk about fish? Well, because I want to see this. I want to see cutthroat spawning in Yellowstone. Cindy Godel sent us this photo. She's a Montana photographer. Because I want to see this. I want to see sockeye spawning in Idaho. Because I want to see this. I want to see Steelhead coming up rivers in Oregon, California, Washington, all up through the North. Because they're going to disappear. And we have tried conventional means of raising consciousness. We all, I think everyone in this room cares about fish. But if we have to take a different approach, hell, if we have to get naked with fish, I'm all for it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks, Josh. Thank you. I'm very happy to take questions or comments. I think we have a roving mic we could use. Henry, thank you. In the pictures that were from the UK, from that group, has there been changes or outcomes, positive outcomes, based on those photos and awareness? Yes. I've got it. There is definitely, they have attracted attention. And they have definitely received donations. And they have put pressure on the legislatures in the EU and in Britain. The Brexit issue complicates it. In many ways, I'm very against Brexit. Again, we have deep connections to Britain, my family. But the fishermen were an outspoken lobby. And they were for UK breaking away by and large. They felt that Europe was overfishing their waters unfairly. So where does fish love UK come in on that? I'm not sure. The politics are complicated. But it has definitely raised attention. And I wish, you're a scientist. I wish I could give you the data. And maybe next year I can. Or soon I can when I write about this. I look forward to talking to Nicholas Roll and others directly related to fish love UK. But again, the images are startling. Even if you're like, what? What's with the naked people holding the fish? It makes you think. It's different. So I would say, absolutely it has done good. We'll see how much good it will do eventually. Thank you. Yes, please. We have a mic coming back to you. Thanks for coming. Let me get my 7-up. My special 7-up. Please. So it seems like we can make an argument that humans are going to make sexual metaphors with whatever we become familiar with. Investigate horses with many of centaurs, or you have aquaculture, and then you have sewing boats. Right. And the Julie Christy picture of the fish and the naked women from cars are in this country holding big guns. True. That's like the thing you ordered magnitude more of the successful fish. Why do you think? Why is fish the thing we're trying on? I'm so glad you said that. And remember Freud's famous line, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And I don't want to make, I'm not one of those literary critics that insists on finding what I want to find. But I do think for the reasons that I illustrated that, there is something about that wet, moist world that's sensual. And I think it's something primal and dark and invisible and maybe even a little scary that can provide an interesting metaphor for human sexuality and for human relations. And the fact that we hold fish, and the fact that catch and release is so big and letting them go, it's different than hunting. I have no problems with hunting. But the end game is different, right? I mean, you shoot the animal. There was lots of traditions, Native American traditions with great respect, the spirit of the animal, certain rituals took place. But I think fishing may lend itself to a variety of experiences. And this is a new part. It's the first time I've given this talk. And so I'm excited to try to write this book and see what I can find. And I mean it very sincerely that I'm interested in your feedback. You can email me if you don't have a chance to talk tonight. And tell me that, well, this is crazy or this is interesting. But yeah, I have to try to separate, just like everything is sex, OK? And really try to make some sense out of this. So I hope I can do that. Thank you. Sure. Yes? We have a mic over here. Thank you so much, Ann. Thanks. For many years I've worked to restore Snake River sand in Oregon, Washington, and Idaho. Thank you. And while we're still working on it, I've heard talking to one gentleman in Eastern Washington who said, why would you try and save salmon? They just spawn and then die anyway. And we have yet to take down some dams on the Snake River that are necessary for their recovery. But recently it was the plight of orchids in Puget Sound that really took the issue to a whole new level. And it made me wonder, it's so hard to get people to care about fish because their eyes are not like humans. And it took a mammal becoming a banger to motivate people to really bring to the next level. I'd just like to know what you think about it. Thank you. Well, thank you for your good and important work. I love the Snake River. We'd love to see that free of dams. I hope I don't get into political trouble for that. Isn't that fascinating? We love mammals. Horses, right? Horses can be more sexy. Dogs, they're warm, they're furry. Their eyes, mammalian eyes communicate with us. Otters are very sexy. I've looked at an otter and I'm being silly. I'm sorry. No bestiality. Right? We have to then take note of that and say if that's what it takes, OK, let's work that. I hope orchids don't go extinct. I hope they don't starve to death. But it's interesting to track those things. We have the same problem in Oregon with sturgeon. I'm a big sturgeon advocate. Like, sturgeon, who cares about sturgeon? They're kind of ugly. They're weird. We never see them. Salmon, they're beautiful. So even among the fish world, there are kind of winners and losers based on looks or the way we can relate to them. You're right. We relate to mammals much more strongly. I'm asking maybe in a different way to reconsider fish. And I don't know how exactly, but I'm open to different ideas. Fish love UK. Who came up with the crazy idea? Naked celebrities with fish. It seems to be working. So I'm so glad you told me that. I'll note that. I'd like to talk more about it. But whatever it takes to save these fish, it's fascinating. Thank you for that comment. Can we have a question back there again? Sure. Anne, thank you. I would like you to create an environment here that I'm going to ask a personal question. Could you be my therapist, please? I'll consider it. Sure. I'm a, you know, I love to fish, love to catch fish. And I've done it for all my life. And I have friends in this politically correct world who come in and say, you know what you're doing? You're recreating at the expense of the species. How could you dare do that? So let me ask you a question, which I've never thought of, but you've given me this opportunity. If I hook up with a hen rainbow, is that sexual assault? No. Thank you. Sure. Well, that was easy. Maybe I should become a counselor. That beats teaching for an hour and a half. But just to draw, I mean, thank you. And I like, I love the levity of the humor. You know, that's interesting. And I, sometimes these topics get sensitive. We did, you know, you do get a little pushback sometimes on topics like this. And I really hope that we could take subjects seriously. And human sexuality and the way we relate to each other is a very serious topic. But let's also have some fun so we can continue to communicate about these things. And it's funny, the catch release issue is an interesting one. I mean, some people like absolutely catch release, you know, John McPhee's famous line from Founding Fish that he feels it's immoral to catch fish and let them go. You shouldn't fish for a fish that you don't want to eat. You are kind of torturing this thing for your pleasure. Different views. I do both. I do a lot of catch and release when it's conservationally required. And I feel great about it. And I harvest fished when it's possible to. So, interesting. Thank you for that comment. Sure, and where are you? Okay, maybe, anyway, okay, that's fine. Trying to get to everybody. Thank you. Being a Long Island kid, Oceanside, how did you get jumped started? Who was the person that led you to all this, this lifetime of love and achievement and the passion that you have and you share with us tonight? Well, thank you for saying that. And I grew up in Long Island. I wrote a memoir and talked about it a bit. My father disliked fishing. He hated fishing. But he was a good dad. And he took me fishing because it was in the air. Other kids on Long Island fished. And it was a small community, Port Jefferson. There was a little small fishing fleet there. Some draggers, a good lobster fleet. Now the lobster are gone from Long Island Sound. And so I was just, like many of you, something drew me to fish. There was maybe the mystery. You couldn't really see them. You can look into a field and see the deer. But what's under the water? I used to go down to the docks and just look down there. Maybe you'd see a striped bass. But really, a lot of it was invisible. But through angling, I could kind of connect to that mysterious world. It just drove me wildly forever. And so I told my students this. And I met some wonderful students at Montana State. There's a couple here tonight. I said, you try to do what you love. It's so much easier if you have a job that you enjoy. So that's what I've tried to do. So I just try to find, you know, to blend my passions for fishing. That's why I teach literature. You can write about it. Writing articles. You can be a journalist and study different things and write about them. So obviously we have a shared passion for fish in the outdoors. Right on. That's beautiful. Yeah. There's a comment back here. This woman here. Is that possible? And the red blouse, does that see you there? Ann, is it okay? Yeah. Okay. That's great. Thank you. Thank you. So I appreciate this topic. And so when I fish, you know, it's a courtship. You know, when I go to the river, there's a whole kind of like, I'm entering, I feel like I'm entering a bar, except I'm entering the river. And I'm looking around and seeing what's going on. You know, I wade into the water. You know, there's this courtship that goes on with me and the fish. And I realized that we looked a little bit at the end game here tonight. And I think that there's a big venue here that needs to be discovered about courting the fish. That is also a big pray to the sensuality of what it is to fish. And that's, I mean, that's a big part for me. Because when I get out in the water and I step into the bar of water and I'm starting to fish and I land my first fish, you know, I look and I go, okay, I let it go. Then the next one comes in. And you know, by the time I leave the bar, I've decided whether or not I scored or not. That was beautiful, that was just beautiful. Yes, and you're right. I did maybe focus too much on the end game because it is the courtship. I love that. And it's the time on the water. And I mean, just like you maybe dream about finding someone, you dream about fishing, right? And you prepare, you put on your best, don't you? And you put in the hours because you want something. And even if it doesn't happen, there's a lot that happens to you during those periods, that courtship. And so the great process of fishing that many higher anglers like yourself are committed to, it's not just the catch, it's not just the product, but it's the wonderful process that is so important. And thank you for saying that. I will make notes or you can email me, but that was beautiful, you contributed to our night. Thank you, thank you. Great. Yeah, Anne, where are you? I'm sorry, it's a little hard in the lights. Okay, perhaps right here. Thank you so much, Anne, you're wonderful. I just, this is a bit of an add-on to what you mentioned, but I was thinking about the sensuality that you were talking about. And I thought it's perhaps the environment that is so sensual when you go down the river and you think of the environment and you slip in and the water, the cold water is running over your head and down your body and it's quiet and you roll in the water. You can roll with the fish. And sometimes I think that something that we get is the connection that you say, well, you can get it with the amount of water, maybe you get it even more so with that environment that we're so tendlating and so fancy. What kind of school system do you have here? Why are people so smart and eloquent? Thank you, that was lovely. You're right, it's that liquid environment, isn't it? It's just inherently sensuous and sensual. And like that image I showed you of that early napkin drawing that Richard Buncie did, you know, just a quick sketch of those women and the salmon and the water or the climp piece, you know, that notion of all this fluidity. Okay, not hard lines between things, but lots of blending, lots of fluidity. I think that that is, you're right, the environment is inherently sensuous and sensual. Beautifully said, wow, great. Yes, I'm happy to go as long as you like but I'm not in charge here, so. Well, to that same idea that I'm from the British in utero that the environment is quite ocean-like and also there's a point at which the embryo goes through the fish day. Correct. And then there's a book which I can't recall the title of which is all about that whole fish-like thing that we have as humans. Right, and I read that book a few years ago, can someone, what's that book? The Fish Within? Something like that, exactly, right? That our life begins in utero in an aqueous environment that we have gills that if you look at comparative embryology we go through a phase that suggests an aquatic past. I'm not a zoologist, but I'm very interested in that. And again, that's something I'll research. As a journalist, as a writer, you read a few more of those books and I'll go back and read some good sources. Thank you for reminding us of that. Really interesting idea. Yes, sure. Thank you. So when I was in college, we had to take two PE classes. And one of the PE classes I did was scuba diving. We spent the whole semester in this swimming pool looking at each other. A lot of humans, not anything else. And so, at the end of the class, we went to Florida and went scuba diving in wet suits and it was amazing. But it also felt like we were just watching the fish almost through a museum, so an aquarium. And then later, I went snorkeling. I had no wet suit and suddenly fish were nipping at me. And I suddenly felt like this barrier between me and the fish had gone away. And so, it was really interesting to think about being, as we are fishing frequently, above the fish versus with the fish. And so I think, another thing you might wanna think about as you pursue this is, when are you an observer and when are you amongst the fish? It's another great point. And I do scuba dive, I'm a certified diver. Oregon is a tricky place to do some marine diving. But when we travel, we dive. And yes, that's really important to, again, break down barriers, you're right. It's different than being on the surface or on a boat, even waiting with your gear. But to be, especially snorkeling, and a little vulnerable, you know? I mean, that's also part of it too. You're vulnerable. And I think that's part of being a human and opening yourself up, right? And there's sharp stuff and fish do come up and nip at you and stuff. And I've been diving with sharks around, but that's yet another element to explore. Thank you. Those are really fine ideas. I appreciate that. So, okay, how about one more? I'm enjoying this so much. Is that okay, Ann? Is that okay? Boss? Okay. I think I can shout, is that all right? Yeah, bring it on. As we talked, Henry, thank you very much. But I'm a biologist. And one thing that comes to mind, it's kind of that staying like beautiful people ruining it for all the rest of us, right? You know, the way they... Well, this is a trout and salmonic collection. North American literature is very much involved in trout and salmon. I notice you did a pretty good job of being hand specific. But I mean, would you care to talk about that? I mean, we tend to make this overblown sensuous thing about salmonics and fishing and the beauty of all that. And particularly, I like the thing with the Brazilian film about indigenous fishing or hunting gathering. And it's really the act of catching something to eat that then becomes more important, at least to me. Anyway, fantastic. Part of my work from my memoir is to push back a bit on the overpreciousness of the trout world. All due respect to a gorgeous fish and important fishery. I love fly fishing for trout, but sometimes it can be overprecious. And it's always perfect. It's the perfect stream. It's the perfect hatch. It's the perfect fish. Everything is crystal clear. And maybe we need those moments in heaven. I know I do, but I grew up on docks, baiting bloody sandworms and catching flounder and putting them in a pail and dragging them home. And we ate them. So I'm really open culturally to different kinds of fishing from different socioeconomic classes, different styles. Some of it seemingly crude and some of it very, very refined. And I really want to stress diversity too. This is obviously a great fly fishing mecca, but thanks for mentioning that. I think it's more, and it can be more than that. Everybody can be honored in that pantheon of fish and fishing, so. My fish aren't that bad. I like, I eat white fish. Don't freeze them, but if you eat them fresh. Well, I think we probably, are we okay? Okay, thank you so much. I'm happy to chat some more. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. We've had all of you for years. We've met the library. Thank you so much for coming. Oh, thank you. And regaling us with all of these amazing stories on. Oh, of course. Thank you. Otherwise, ordinary Tuesday evening. Thank you. For those of you whom I haven't met, my name is Cece Brennick. And I have the joy of serving as the president of the board for the Friends of the MSU library now for a couple of years. And serving on the board for about four altogether. So for those of you who don't know, the Friends of the MSU library is dedicated to enriching MSU, the lives of the students and the community by strengthening the library itself. The Friends group enriches students' experiences through contributions that help bring the library's collections into the community. And we thank you all for joining us for just one of those such programs this evening. It's such a joy to bring the mission of Alangra University as MSU is into the heart of downtown Bozeman. And we thank you all for making the trip down and participating in such a wonderful evening. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Thank you so much. We also have some refreshments and some time to meet with Henry and other members of the community upstairs. We hope you'll stick around and enjoy some time together as a group. I also have some of your books available out front as well. If you are a member of the Friends group, we thank you so much for your continued support. And if you are not, we'd be happy to speak with you about what becoming a member of the Friends group would be. But thank you all so much for joining and enjoy the rest of your evening. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Oh, thanks for coming. I hope.