 Welcome to this episode of the structural engineering channel podcast, a podcast focus on helping structural engineering professionals stay up to date on technical trends in the field and also help them to succeed in their careers and lives. I'm your co-host Alexis Clark. I'm a licensed professional engineer in Texas and I graduated with a bachelor's in civil engineering from UT Austin. I work at Hilti North America's headquarters as the product manager for chemical anchoring portfolio in the US and Canada. In this very special episode, I'm going to interview my co-host, Matt Picardal. Matt hosts the very popular YouTube channel, Structural Engineering Life, through which he promotes the structural engineering profession to engineering students that are not familiar with the industry perspective. In this episode, Matt is going to talk to us about what he has learned from building his YouTube channel. Matt is a licensed engineer practicing on structural engineering projects in California with an undergraduate degree from Cal Poly Pomona and a master's in structural engineering from UC San Diego. He has designed and managed various types of building structures including residential, wood apartment buildings, commercial steel buildings and concrete parking structures and towers. Today, he's going to share with us a peek behind the curtain of his YouTube channel for structural engineering topics with over 25,000 subscribers. Before we dive into this week's conversation, just a short reminder that while most of us are under quarantine right now, EMI is still publishing free content for engineers almost daily. Just visit EngineeringManagementInstitute.org and click on content to read articles, listen to podcasts or watch videos, all focused around helping engineers succeed in their careers and life. Matt, thanks for joining us today here on the Structural Engineering Channel podcast. Hey, Alexis. Yeah, thanks for having me. I mean, I'm usually here. You're usually on this side of the table. Yeah, so it's interesting to just be on the other side, but it's pretty cool. So, you know, I'm excited to share all this stuff that I learned and excited with today's topic to share what I've been learning throughout all this. Good, because I have some pretty juicy questions for you. So you need a bubble for those. Awesome. All right. Before we go too much further, obviously I gave you a brief introduction. Matt, can you just tell us a little bit more about your history as a structural engineer, your path getting here, projects that you work on, stuff like that? Yeah, sure. So I got my undergrad at Cal Poly Pomona Masters at UC San Diego, like you said, and, you know, I've had a lot of internships. I think I had about three or four internships during my, from undergrad to grad school. And then that's how I pretty much got into the structural engineering industry. I had some civil engineering internships and structural then, you know, after I graduated, then I got my first, my first position at DCI engineers, and that's where I'm still at right now. And yeah, it's been really cool. I mean, it's, I've been, there's always something to learn at least with the projects that I have and kind of the position that I've been put in. There's obviously a lot of responsibilities, but lots of cool projects and there's always something new to learn in terms of maybe a new material, a new building. And, and even like getting into the project management and more of the business side of things. It's, it's been really cool. And that's why I'm still, you know, still excited about this profession. There's so much to learn, not just in the structural engineering technical portions, but also the management and business aspects as well. Absolutely, absolutely. And to be a really successful, well rounded engineer, you need to know more than just the technical it is about knowing those different aspects. So I like that you share that with our listeners. So dive straight into the topic, talk about your YouTube channel today, structural engineering life. What inspired you to start a YouTube channel. That's not something most structural engineers do every day. No, it's not. You know, it kind of started off with I went to a career fair, we were, you know, recruiting interns and, you know, students for our company and then, you know, just looking at the resumes talking to the students, you know, they didn't know too much about the structural engineering industry, you know, about what we actually do. You know, I think it's, you know, it's what they learn in school. And then, you know, once you transition, it's a tough transition. But then I look back on my path, it was like, yeah, I didn't know anything about the industry either. You know, when I first got into the industry, my first internships, you know, it was like shell shock. Oh, that's not what we learned in school. That's not how we do it. Exactly. You know, and, and things like that. And a lot of students didn't really know about that, you know, when I'm talking to them, and I was like, how did I get into it? Well, fortunately for me, I had someone that did work in the industry, you know, that went to grad school and I could ask him questions about, hey, what's grad school like, do I need to go to grad school? What about the structural engineering industry, what firms are good, what firms aren't good, what type of positions are there. And fortunately, I had that one person if I didn't have that one person. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I am today, and probably getting into the structural engineering industry too, but I realized that not, you know, like, there's a lot of people like that, but that didn't have that person that that contact where they can find out more about the structural engineering industry and you know, that was one of my things about of starting the channel get get that resource out there for students that are interested in in the industry and yeah I also looked at I kind of forgot about it I looked at looked online it's like all this stuff that I was googling online, you know when I was a student, there wasn't anything there for the most part. And then I just figured once I got into the industry, someone else will do it you know someone will provide those resources. But then after that career fair that I went to, I looked online and yeah there was stuff online but it was like in the Reddit forums where everyone hated their lives and you know it's a lot of negative things about the industry. And if you're a student that's what you're doing you're, you're going online seeing what this industry you're getting into and if all you see are those negative posts about, you know about the industry and they some one particular person just had a really bad experience and he's posting all this negative stuff well that's what the students are reading because there's not enough positive content out there. So that was another motivating factor for me was like, hey this, there should be like more positive stuff out there. Absolutely, because I talked to a lot of structural engineers you to like, you know they love their jobs it's a great industry it's a great But there's just not enough of us to putting stuff out there on the internet where everyone's at to help inspire the next generation to come over it's it's only, you know I think there should be more, more of it like there because the majority of, you know the profession that's like you know it's great but if more of us can just put more positive content out there will help inspire the next generation, you know attract the best and brightest. I love that I think that's so true and I really it goes back to the saying be the change you wish to see in the world I think that's all it really is so thank you for taking up arms and grabbing it by the horns I love it. Matt, for those of us who have never started a YouTube channel before. Can you tell us what was the biggest barrier to this entire journey that you've been on what was the what was the biggest struggle you've had. So, in terms of starting the just wanting to start a channel I think the biggest obstacle is not really coming up with the topics. For me it was if you're anything like me you're, you're introverted and you're shy, but you know a lot of. You know a lot of things already you've been in the industry for a while, or even if you just got into the industry. You know something and you want to share it with people. And for me that was that was the situation for me I had like these two inner voices like hey you know all this stuff you can help allow a lot of students. And you know just to share, share your experiences because it can really help them out because you're in the same situation. And you know these are things that they should know, but no one's teaching them, or no one's putting it out. There was one voice the positive voice that really wanted me to push but then there's also this other voice where it was like, you know what gives you the right to put out contact your, you don't have your PhD. You're not smarter enough you don't have enough experience. What are people going to think. You don't, you don't look good on camera, you're not good at speaking. All these things, all that stuff is like holding you back, or was holding me back from, from putting out that content like I already had all the content I'm living the content, you know, and all that other stuff that that second voice it was kind of just like I think that's the hardest part for people, like getting over that getting over that fear of. You're going to expose yourself to people, you know and and for me getting over that it's because I guess the way I got over it was just talking to people and what one of the things that I realized was basically looking at it as I have the ability to do it and I had the responsibility to do it because I can help people and people need help. Do I have the ability. Yeah, we have all these tools in front of us YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all the social media stuff so you can do it. To me it was like, Hey, it's your responsibility to do it because you can help people out. And you have all the knowledge so what's what's stopping you like why are you being so selfish, you care more about yourself and your feelings. And all the things that are holding you back, then then just putting the content out there that can help a lot of people and I know a lot of people know stuff. And what's what's kind of tragic is when they, they want, they want to share it but they don't because if they did share it. And so many people could have just benefited from it could have helped their lives. It could have helped them at the work could have advanced their careers but they never shared that so I think that's the real tragedy of people, you know kind of giving into their lives. Oh, I'm not good enough there. No one wants to listen. So by making that choice and sharing it. I mean you can help a lot of people and I think that outweighs a lot of, of all those inner demons I guess are those low self confidence things. Well, that's such a fantastic motivator is doing it for others and not for yourself but it's hard because what you're doing is like everything that goes against imposter syndrome and I know I suffer from imposter syndrome like many of us do who are young in industry, whether we're personally does less tenured or you know various other reasons why you may feel that way. Kind of going above and beyond and trying to combat that because you're not only saying oh hey I can do this it's I'm going to put this on stage for everyone to see. So it's it takes a lot of strength to do that and I think that is amazing and I'm glad that you took up this. Maybe like a mantra of almost responsibility to others is greater than my own self doubt. That's really awesome. Yeah, I mean, because now it's not about you anymore it's about other people, and then that way that's how I got over it kind of like putting it in that position that, you know, I should help people out because I can and I have the ability to and whatever I don't know, I'll learn on the way, like, like, like he said, or I mean everything's a skill base I didn't know how to speak. I took a public speaking class that definitely helped, but I'm still not like the world's best speaker, I still mess up on camera a lot. So just learning on the way and knowing that it's a journey so definitely like you're not going to be good the first time but you need to take that that first step if you really want to do something like this so just to kind of clarify so the audience that you're really going after for the most part is the is the student, likely in college or in grad school, who are already in pursuit of a structural engineering career path, maybe. Yeah, my main audience is students and young professionals that are probably in their five years or less. Okay, basically my audience is whoever I was. I'm just like the step right above right so we're calling all the mats. Yeah, like if you've been in the industry for less than five years hey I can show you what I know obviously I can't be like, I can't tell you how to go above what I've done in terms of like hey how to be a business owner how to be a principal how to be an associate or whatnot, because I haven't done it but hey, I've been that young engineer that didn't know anything. And now I'm getting into project management so I know a little bit about that and sharing my lessons that that I'm learning in that position too. So, and I've been a student so whatever I've been in the in the past like I can help you out because I've been there, I don't need to be like some certified student expert or whatnot it's hey I've done it, and I'm living it and I can show you what I know and hopefully it helps you out and in one way or another. Absolutely, it's mass mentorship, or is it not mentorship. I have a bad pun in here in this quarantine my level of humor and sophistication has just gone right down so we're going to get some more puns. Yes, so many puns. Perfect, so we talked a little bit about your audience. You've got a really wide range of topics on your channel it's awesome so there seems to be a lot about awareness. You've got the day in the life of the structural engineer you have what is structural engineering you have a little bit about coaching which is really seems to be your passion. You've got stuff about grad school how to pass a licensure exam how to get an internship or build your resume. And then you've got some that are even technical which I think is really nice as you start to talk about what is like to be a project manager what are some of these technical topics and how do I make it digestible for my audience you've got earthquake engineering you've got which post tension concrete literature you have ready which I enjoy that that's the real nerdy one that I really like. How is it that you I mean you have an audience how is it you determine what what content you want to develop next what's relevant what makes sense. Sure if, for me, and I think if it was it's basically just what was the stuff that I wanted to know when I was a student. When I was first year structural engineering profession second year third year, all the things that I wish somebody would have like told me so I could have saved myself a bunch of time. That's pretty much how I create my content like hey what steel books are there what are some good steel examples where I can get, you know some some good materials and resources for this project I'm working on. And it was a lot of what do you call it self research like these are the things that I would Google online. What are the best post tension concrete books what are the best steel books etc what are the best resources. And yeah so all those things it's all the things that that I wanted to know and all the stuff that I Google that's that's pretty much how I create my content because again it's I guess my audience is what I would have told myself when I was in that position. And yeah I think that's something that someone's thinking about doing hey that's the easiest way to go about it like what what were you what were you doing what were you searching for. Yeah, and there's there's there's always someone in that same position that you're in before and they want to get to where you're at. Of course, do you get a lot of organic requests from your from your audience. Yes, actually that too like in the comments. Like someone suggested structural engineering reality versus expectations so I was like oh that's a good topic and so whenever very funny. Yeah so when someone like request a comment or something. You know I have like my Trello board or your to do list and you know I just take their comment, put it in there. And when I'm trying to create content say I got my own pieces but then I also get a lot from the audience and that definitely helps out a lot too so I definitely try to mix in both of those. I love it. That's awesome. I mentioned earlier that you had 25,000 subscribers to your channel which is no small feat. How is it that you managed to grow your channel so quickly and how is it that you sustain engagement with your audience to where you continue to grow that base of subscribers. You know I think it's really just about. It's crazy like yeah 25,000 it's like I can't even imagine that many people but you know it's luckily it's been it's been able to turn out like that and in terms of the growth on how I, I guess, got that much. I think it really has to do about knowing. First of all, knowing who your audience is and caring for your audience. I think those are the two main attributes because if you know your audience. And it doesn't have to be all fancy and whatnot. I think the day in the life video was something that I googled when I was a student like what's the day in the life of a structural engineer. And all I did was take my camera and just took it with me to the office and I didn't even talk I was just like, hey, you know, I just took my camera and just documented my day. And so knowing that the audience would want to see that because that's something that I wanted to see and something that they're googling. That definitely helped out in the growth because knowing a little bit about YouTube to because YouTube is a search engine. So if I googled it I know someone else is googling it around the world and there's some like applications where you can kind of figure out what the keywords and whatnot to get a little technical. You can figure out how many searches there are for a particular term like where are the best steel books. So Google's a search engine YouTube or Google owns YouTube so YouTube's also a search engine. So that's one tactic you can do to to kind of boost your your viewings to see what what people are searching for and that comes back to knowing your audience what are they searching for. So that's the kind of engineering there too with this with the keyword optimization. Yeah, exactly like there's a learning a little bit about marketing, engineering and learning how these kind of even business to I mean like, if you get into YouTube, you treat YouTube as your client. What does YouTube wants, like what do they really want. Like, and if you go through like the analytics and whatnot hey they want watch time so like you said reverse engineering. They first people are using YouTube as a search engine. So yeah, you basically figure out what people are searching for and then you format a video where it's entertaining enough and educational enough that they would want to watch the whole thing. Because if you help YouTube out by giving them watch time they're going to help you out by showing your video to a lot more people. So there's a lot of stuff that be able to learn just I guess going on this journey. But also, like I said, knowing your audience and caring for your audience to like I take, it takes up a lot of time to respond to a lot of the comments and question I try my best. And I've responded to almost all of them. But yeah, it does take a lot of time but it also shows that you know you're there for your audience and if they suggest a video and you make the video. It shows that you're listening to them to so really it's exactly like, you know, it's about them. It's about your audience. I think that's one of the fastest ways that you can grow is knowing what your audience is searching for knowing how to help your audience, and showing that your audience that you care that you're there for them that you're listening. So really it's about them and really not about me it's just, I just share what I know to help them out and I think that's the fastest way that you can grow your channel. I love that. That's awesome. That's really great wisdom to and I think that that percolates into so many different aspects of life that you actually care about the people that are on the other end. It's going to make it really worthwhile for you and it's going to make it worthwhile for them and that's that's very transparent. I think that's very obvious in a lot of different ways. Alright, so I'm going to take a slight turn downward so I've seen. I know a lot of us have seen so many different articles in the past couple of years about how kids, particularly in the US and the UK are at least at least when I'm reading these articles three times as likely to want to be YouTubers, or a blogger, which I didn't even know that was a word until recently, which is it's hard for me to swallow they'd rather be that than an astronaut. And while I know that there are a ton of different people who are in the engineering and STEM professions, who spend their own time, you know, to work hard during a week and throughout the year to bring awareness to children about these different professions. Right now we live in a really interesting time in which we have more and more children consuming all the different content on YouTube and different channels on the internet. And it's even more compounded now that we're in this quarantine social distancing world. So I'm curious, what are some of the ways that our listeners can incorporate some of the STEM activities that they would be doing in their schedules, and how do you channel that into outreach like you're doing through media like YouTube or other different internet avenues. That's a good question so it's, it's kind of like asking how do you find time to do this stuff how do you find the duties extracurricular activities Wow. You know you're probably a working professional that works at least 40 hours a week, and may have a family, and you may have other extracurricular activities. For me what I did and my advice to people that particularly civil engineers doesn't really matter what geotech or whatnot or structural, but use your profession as, as your content like document what you're doing instead of just spending hours trying to come up with what to say or what to do or, or what content should I create. Hey what you're doing right now someone wants to be and if you're a structural engineer. Someone wants to be a structural engineer. What are you doing right now in the office like what did you work on today. That's the easiest way to integrate both of those things to. So you don't have to spend all this time outside or your weekends coming up with content and ideas and scripting and all this stuff it's that's easiest way just document what you're doing like, like I think with one of my videos, the day in the life one. Yeah that's all I did I just took my camera with me to the office. I didn't even talk I didn't script anything I just went to work and just turn the camera on. And people want to see that because there's not enough engineers that are doing it there's plenty of other. You know that you see on YouTube youtubers doing it people want to see that people want to see people like you're seeing in this quarantine to it's like, yeah, you want to know what you're doing and that's the Facebook and that's you may not think people want to see that, but they do and the numbers prove it like people want to know what your days like what the professions like. And you don't have to create anything you're already doing it at work so maybe you're working on some projects you can document what you've learned. Even like with me, some of the things that I did it for was I was conducting interviews for interns like we're trying to recruit interns interviewing interns. And I just go over I make a video about hey here's what you know how what we're looking for interviews or how to improve your resume and it's it's all the stuff that I've already done at work and now I'm just regurgitating it or just pressing record and learning the lessons that I learned, and it didn't take me extra time except just pressing that record button. And I think that's easiest way you can integrate these STEM activities is you're already doing it to share it, press the record button or, or blog about it or, or do a podcast about it but important thing is to share it, you're already doing it. I love it. I think that's such an easy thing that everyone can take back and implement to their own life is we're already doing the work of an engineer documented. I love that that's very simple. I think a lot of us, I'm very intimidated by some of the people like yourself who are a little bit more savvy in doing video editing or even I don't use. What is the one that they Photoshop Photoshop I clearly I don't know Photoshop. I think about all the different media outlets, or even you know, self taught people like yourself who just start this up. Sometimes they create really fantastic content and it looks nice or you know video editing is really strong. And for me that's an intimidating factor is that's not a strength of mine and it's not actually an interest that I want to pursue to learn to be better at and so I think when you make it as easy as just document what you're doing and put it out there and makes it a lot digestible and it makes it something you can really put your arms around and embrace and want to actually pursue. Yeah, I think, you know, it doesn't even have to be technical. I know, I know you're getting into more of the sales, the technical sales. I mean there's a lot of people that want to get into that for more of the extrovert engineers and whether you're so whatever you're doing whether you're technical, or, or in whatever aspect of the engineering side you're in or even in the business. There's something that someone wants to be in your position like you have advice for people. And I know you already mentor a lot of students and whatnot so you're doing a great job at that but if more people did that I mean it's a lot more resources for people and, you know, like you said, like, I know it's exciting. And, yeah, I was self taught, but the good thing is you know when you first start your videos you know that no one's going to watch it. So it's like, you have time to, you have time to get better. Like my first video, oh man it was, it was like a two minute intro video. And it took me like almost like an hour or two hours to just shoot that thing because I just kept being like oh that was, that was stupid. I stuttered. No, that's not what I wanted to say. Oh no, I look stupid there, the lighting's off and whatnot. So for a two minute video it took me like definitely more than an hour. And then more hours editing all the mistakes out just to get into a two minute video. But that's, I mean that's the first step you know you get better. It's a journey it really is you're going to suck and it's, it's fine like you know you're going to suck but then you're just going to keep gradually getting better and better and better and better and better. Yes. And I think that's what's cool people can see your journey to like it's kind of like a documentary of what you went through. That is very cool I like the way you phrase that is a documentary of your own growth that's good. And no one starts out as a natural everyone has to learn I guess. Yeah, for sure. Alright, so the next few questions that I have are kind of a personal interest but I think that especially at this point in the episode if we have listeners who are interested in doing this on their own and now they're finding hey I have a little bit extra time that I used to not have. And I want to start dipping my toe into this this content creation world. I have a couple of questions specific to either episodes that you've done or how you're coming up with your ideas. So, I'm curious for you so I looked at your episode reality versus expectations which has over 170,000 views, and I was cracking up the entire time it was fantastic. You had a lot of different nuggets of wisdom throughout that entire episode. What is three of the biggest things you would want to share with our listeners here. In terms related to that episode on like reality versus expectations. Yeah, so for me, you know the first thing I always tell students is that are trying to get in like, you're not going to know anything like, like really once you get into the structural engineering industry. You're really not going to know a lot. And that's going to be that's completely okay. We'll teach you and will mentor you. And, you know, we're expecting you to ask questions. I think a trap is that you get into the industry, and then you do realize oh I don't know anything like then you start feeling down on yourself like, oh why am I so stupid. How come I didn't do that how come I don't know this. How come I have to spend so much time on this. No it's okay we know that we've been in your position to. So it's not like you're doing it. You're not the first person to go through this. So I think that's one of the first things that I want to say is, hey you're not going to know anything but that's okay if you keep that attitude of asking questions and always wanting to learn more and being curious. I think that's what a lot of firms are looking for that curiosity, you're not afraid to ask questions and give give you your insights on on your problem solving solutions on like hey here's a problem that I solved here's what I think might work and it may not work. That's fine but you're going to learn something when you asked your, your manager or whatnot. So, knowing that it's okay that you don't know anything that it really is at this point in the, I guess the structural engineering industry, you know the education system at least in my opinion hasn't caught up with or prepared them enough for the structural engineering industry and what we actually do. And that's fine like and firms are expecting that so definitely don't feel bad if you don't know anything. And the second thing is, I think you guys should be aware of the business aspects you know when you work for a firm. It's knowing the bigger picture I'm always a big opponent of hey knowing the bigger the bigger picture of the project so it kind of comes down to knowing the phases of a project knowing how a project even gets into the firms into the firm's workflow and what the clients are expecting who are your clients what they're expecting what your manager is expecting what phase are you in. So knowing the bigger picture in the different phases of the project. That can definitely help you out in your career in terms of in terms of efficiency because a lot of engineers think younger engineers when they get into it they think it's all about calcs calcs calcs. That we're running a business here. And yes you have to find that right balance and that brings me to my third point. What I think is a really good for newer engineers is make it as simple as possible. No simpler because we do tend to go, especially with all these softwares that we have, we tend to sometimes just jump straight into the software and just be like, Hey, here's what the software gave me. And then your manager goes, How do you know that's right. Well, because that's what it's, it's a software show. Yeah, really learn like I think that's another skill that you should learn when you get into the structural engineering profession is learning how to build your intuition build your how to back check your own calcs, or especially what the programs doing, and some engineers are like, Oh, you may have to know all this, all the technical stuff and etc and like doing all these complicated equations and do finite element analysis by had no it's, hey, simplify it down to a simple beam problem, do a static problem. Yeah, it's not exactly as accurate but if are you in the ballpark at least, or maybe even just. Alright you did a trust analysis on this program that you've never used before. What, and you're not sure that you're modeling techniques are right. Why don't you try it on another program that you are familiar with are you getting the same values. So really knowing how to check your work to check the work of the programs and knowing how to simplify things so you can get that feeling of hey yeah this this seems right or this this feels right, you know, and, or that this is the behavior that we're expecting so really simplifying things down to what they really just need to be not everything needs to be a finite element analysis. I like that I like that simplify it but nobody no simpler. Perfect. And one that you posted most frequently was your home office setup, as you transition to the work from home life, which obviously super timely. Question for you about how do you get these out. And how do you communicate these to your audience in a an effective time manner where this this content is very urgent the more the quickly or the more quickly a listener can listen to your topic they can then implement and take whatever learning they took and put it into their work life now when they're at work from home status. How is it that you get information out quickly and make sure it reaches the most amount of people in a short amount of time. Sure it's. For me it is really. Yeah, it always comes back to, like with all these events coming in it's like, hey, here's what I'm going through, like, you know, the SC exam got canceled. I know I'm not the only one if you're taking the PE exam or the SC exam. You're feeling the same way that I'm feeling. So, yeah, just making a video of it was like, you know I found out about it. Oh that sucks. Oh, here's, let me just turn on the camera because I know other people are feeling the same exact way that I'm feeling. So, is that extra work, not really it's just me like pressing the camera and in terms of structure for me, I used to script a lot like almost word for word when I was starting out. But now I can, I'm getting more into the habit of just bullet pointing my points you know I just don't want to rant but kind of just having some structure. So, viewers can follow a little bit better. So just make for me now it's a lot more about bullet points hey here's the thing that I want to go through and then I'm getting better at speaking that way so communication skills along the way and and yeah knowing what what my audience is going through and and posting relevant content about that and like in terms of that desk video. It was, there's just so much negative stuff on the news about this whole, you know code 19 thing and and whatnot it was like, Alright, what do I want to see. Well I just want to a lot of people are posting their desk and it's oh that's that's fun that's cool what do you have on your desk or how are you working from home. And so for me thinking about my audience, you know what would they want to see like something fun and something cool something visually appealing that's relevant to what we're all going through right now. Yes. And something not negative something a little more positive a little more fun. Okay, that's how I came up with that so knowing. Yeah, again whatever one's going through. Okay, so you have so you have to draw because you have a relevant topic that's positive and interesting. How do you do the push, do you just post it to YouTube and see who takes it or see who clicks on it do you post to your LinkedIn seed as well how how do you get the message out. Oh yeah so kind of like the marketing thing about that so let me see the strategy behind that. So this this is gets gets a little more technical in terms of the algorithms of YouTube and LinkedIn and and whatnot but the way I come up with some terms of YouTube just to give you some YouTube tips. The most effective ways is to see what's already been done before, and what's been popular already so I would Google things like desk setup or desk tours and again the kind of goes into like the, the title, what titles work and what titles will make you click on what that will make you want to click on the video. And so for YouTube that's one of the things. And for LinkedIn it's the same thing. It's, how do I get people's attention so that they're interested in this this this video, and at least for that video. I like to work snippets, because in LinkedIn, if they're scrolling, you know a lot of people have less attention spans than if they're on YouTube. So knowing that if I post like really cool shots of like close ups of the gear and, you know, put in some background showing what the video is about in subtitles. That's a good way to catch someone's attention while they're scrolling on LinkedIn it's a video. Okay, to work from home, and then it's like, Oh, it's visually appealing. And if interested, they can click on that so it's kind of like definitely marketing and what people care about knowing what people care about know how to get people's attention. Because you can have the best content in the world, but if no one knows about it, or if you can get people to pay attention. What's the point. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting you keep bringing it back to doing research to see what other people are already looking at, and trying to take some of those best practices and takes those little snippets of what it is you're trying to create that's unique and adding it all together. It's interesting. It's an interesting formula. The psychology behind marketing and I'm still learning myself and it's definitely very interesting and especially when you're doing engineering marketing of some sort. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely definitely a lot to learn it. And yeah, human psychology is interesting too and it's, but it's cool because I mean I think everyone should learn something about it because the more we know about people the more you know we can, I think promote the profession better because I think we all tend to keep to ourselves as an industry but the more we market ourselves to the public. Yes. There you go. Stop complaining on why we don't get credit because we don't want to market ourselves totally I couldn't agree more I couldn't agree more there's actually a really interesting. I'm just thinking really quickly there was a really interesting session at NTSA this past year in Anaheim in California Southern California where you are, and it was how to be a better PR representative for structural engineering was very very interesting. Lots of takeaways we could all be better at I think. Yeah, so my final question my final one so I'm bringing it back to what I think is kind of your hallmark video. The day in the life of the structural engineer almost 400,000 views as of this morning which is very impressive so I've watched it a couple of times so I think it's hysterical I love it I think it's really fun. First of all I'm impressed that you blow dried your hair because you pulled out the blow dryer one more time than I do a day which is zero. You like got up and you were getting ready you boost your hair. I love that you showed you know it takes some coffee to fuel this big engineering brain and keep all the calcs running. I like that it went from everything to including your little bit about your personal exercise and going in and out burger which I'm sure was a shout out to your Californians of course. Yep, but you did you you included things as as familiar and as comfortable as here's my office workspace and this is what it looks like to go to a site visit and you included you know being social and going to lunch with a colleague and you included little things about how you use technology and modeling software in your day to day as well which I just I think was such a well rounded. Example just like you said of things that you were already doing throughout your day and you just turned on the cameras that people could live it with you. As someone I try to be really mindful of the content that I'm consuming because because like you mentioned there's a lot of negative stuff out there there's a lot of repetitive content out there. And I'm curious how is it that you crafted each and every piece of this video and how did you how did you choose what to include. Yeah sure so for the first part like I did I did my research and you know on YouTube there's a lot of videos similar to that but for different industries like the software engineering industry, or any profession you name it there's a lot of videos out like that, but there wasn't the software engineering industry or the structural engineering industry the civil engineering industry. So that's how I first, that's how I first got my idea to to dive into that doing research. Hey, it has traction. Let me try it. And in terms of, you know, coming up with like the shots of what I wanted to do. It was pretty much just okay, like what do I do in the morning it was really wasn't that complicated okay you know I go brush my teeth. I do my hair. I get my keys I drive to work. I had a site visit that day so that was interesting. And then all the programs I work out on I know there's software is a pretty popular to see what what we do the type of software is that we get into there so I wanted to get some shots of that. You know going to lunch so it was really much pretty much just like yeah what I do on a daily basis so in terms of coming up with what to shoot well just doing the stuff that I've already. I'm already doing that day so it wasn't too much to think about that but you know even creating that video, I think that's what was the hardest part of deciding to create that type of video. So it's a personal video it's you know I'm letting you into my life what I go through the shows I watch the food I eat what my routine is, and I know for a lot of engineers that's like, oh you're going to show the whole world that like. You're going to, you know, you're exposing yourself to all this criticism. Oh yeah and out to me that was the hardest part to post it but I was experimenting so I just did. I just did it and I was just like, it's an experiment, and one of the lessons I learned from that video was, hey, that is the type of thing that people watch whether you're an engineer or, or, or not, I mean, we're all still people we still want to know what goes into each other's lives and the more you let the audience in doesn't matter if they're engineers, the more connection you have with them, because you know there's a lot of people that want to know that but then a lot of people can relate with that and it's like, I think that's one of the key aspects to have people keep coming back because you know I'm not just like a robot, that's just spitting out numbers. Yes, I'm showing you the lessons that I learned sharing my successes and my failures I think that's probably the most important thing sharing your failures. So people can connect with you because like I you know I share my story about I wasn't great at my GPA I was an average student, and you know like getting called out on on on some of the things that I did and like a lot of the failures that I did like I wasn't the best students and definitely a lot of failures but that's what people connect with the most, because it's hard to connect with, like a 4.2 student. Oh yeah, like great good for you if you're a 4.2 students. That wasn't me either. And being able to share your failures and your personal life and all those small little vulnerabilities that really is the connection and the relatability that you're looking for to make it relevant content. I get that. Yeah, and it's tough but that's, I mean we're all people that's what people connect with. All right, so quick quick final question I promise. I know, given my experience in engineering marketing that you create a lot more content that ends that doesn't end up in the final cut. So you maybe create you know 200 hours worth of something and only 100 or even an hours worth gets into the final print. Did you have any bloopers that didn't make it into it that you want to share with us. I'm dying to know. There's just so much like mess ups in terms of because it's weird talking to a camera like you know the final product is is it looks clean but there's editing into that. And if you see my whole process like, you know, like I was telling you before like that first video I made oh man it was like the stupidest stuff like I just kept tripping over the words, like the simplest words, and, and like, like tripping up over a word like five times. And then just like cursing on camera like, oh, why can't I get this and then, and then it turns into like an hour long shoot for like a two minute video. There's definitely things like that and I think yeah in terms of like the behind the scenes there's a lot of things like that where it just messes up and it's, it's kind of embarrassing just to be like wow took you that long to just get through that one sentence. Because it's talking to a camera is very weird. I don't know why this is a lot easier I think just having a person in front of you. It definitely helps but just talking in front of a camera is, I don't know it's just, it's just odd and you just mess up on the most. It doesn't feel naturally great. I agree. Perfect. Well I was just, I had to ask that last one just because I always mess things up myself and so I was curious if you had little fun ones to share but I really really appreciate the insight that you shared I think this is something that everyone has the ability these are tools that are ever in hands. We all have the power to use them for for good like you mentioned we can all be a mentor to the masses if we wanted to share our experiences so I'm hopefully I'm very hopeful that many of our listeners today have heard how it how easy this can be if you just take the little bit of time to do it and I'm very certain that you've inspired many people today. So thank you for joining us today Matt. Yeah, no problem. Thanks Alexis. Wonderful. So for our listeners we really hope that you did enjoy the conversation with that today. We're always here and we love hearing your feedback your comments your questions. If you want to leave those please visit structural engineering channel.com. There you'll find a summary of all the key points that we discussed in today's episode which is episode number 24, as well as links to the resources like Matt's YouTube channel, the structural engineering life. Don't forget to subscribe to us on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. Until next time we wish you all the best in your structural engineering endeavors.