 modern-day debate, very excited for this epic debate tonight. Want to let you know if it's your first time here to modern-day debate? We host debates on science, religion, and politics, so a smorgasbord of topics. And if you enjoy controversial, juicy topics like this and many others, consider hitting that subscribe button as we have many more to come. In fact, as you'll see at the bottom right of your screen, folks, if you have not heard, we are thrilled about this Kickstarter that we have just launched yesterday. Basically, this is potentially, and this is if the Kickstarter actually fully funds, it's no risk to you. So it's $3 to watch the debate live, and that's to cover the honorariums of the speakers. Anything extra that we have come in will be used for future debates. So want to let you know, no risk to you in that if the debate doesn't happen, the money goes back to everybody 100% of it. And so highly encourage you to check that out. Pledge at that Kickstarter account or campaign, which is linked in the description so that we can make that epic debate with Dr. Michael Schermer and inspiring philosophy happen. So also want to let you know a couple of their housekeeping type things. First, I want to say thanks so much to Steve McCray. You all know him. He's an equal opportunity fellow. He equally offends everyone. We really do appreciate that Steve helped us connect with Trevor Vail. Dr. Trevor Vail, I should say, and so we're thrilled to have Trevor Vail with us tonight, as well as our other guest, Alex. They are both linked in the description, folks. In fact, I'm going to throw Steve McCray's link down there as well as we appreciate Steve's help. And want to let you know last night, very embarrassing, folks, very embarrassing, our Matt Dillahunty debate with Stuart Nettle has been rescheduled. So if you were there, you saw that flop, our connection was pretty bad. So we are going to have that debate. It's going to be in the next week. And so with that, very excited for tonight's debate. Here's how it's going to work format wise. We are going to start with Dr. Trevor Vail, who will have his opening statement. He can use as many as 10 to 12 minutes. That's up to him. Then we'll have that same opening from Alex Stein. Same as in, same in length. So it would be one minute up to 10 to 12 minutes. And then open conversation followed by Q&A. So if you happen to have a question, feel free to fire it into the old live chat. If you tag me at moderndatabate, it makes it easier for me to get every question in that list. So thanks so much. We are going to kick it over. Well, first, let me just say we are thrilled again. Thank you so much, Alex and Dr. Trevor Vail for being here. It's a true pleasure to have you guys. Thank you. And it's a valley. And I'm not a doctor, just a master. You got it. Thank you very much. My mistake on that. And thank you very much. Appreciate your peacefulness and flexibility. And Alex, you as well. Thanks so much for being here. I prefer, I took one semester pre-med. So I prefer to be called doctor if you don't mind. Call me Dr. Stein the rest of the debate if you can do that. I'll see you if we can swing that. It's like your father Kent Hovind. But we will kick it off with Alex Stein with his opening. Or no, I'm sorry about that. Trevor, we're going first with his opening. The floor is all yours. Oh, thank you. Hi, everybody. I'm Trevor Valley. I'm the paleontologist. So you can probably figure out what side of this debate, quote unquote debate I'm on. I've been a paleontologist for more than a decade. I was a field biologist before that. I've excavated fossils in 25 to 30 different fossil localities across four different countries. And on the Discovery Channel, History Channel, Nat Geo, Science Channel, a few other things. I don't have a YouTube channel to monetize like Alex does. But you can find me on Twitter at tattoos and bones. So topic is, you know, dinosaurs don't exist. Well, that's straight off the pet bullshit. My opponent, Alex, if you saw the last debate, he likes to steal bullshit talking points from other completely ignorant grifters like Eric Dubey who get everything wrong. And he'll tell you that all the fossils and museums are fake. And dinosaurs weren't discovered until after the word dinosaur was created. And then it was all a conspiracy to quote unquote make money. But what Dime Store Alex Jones won't tell you is that fossils were documented by Greeks in the fifth and sixth centuries BCE. Also by Augustine in the fifth century CE. And he would know that if he actually read ancient fossil discoveries and interpretations by Adrian Meyer in the Oxford Handbooks of Animals and Classical Thought. He won't tell you that Chinese dragon fossils, which were dinosaurs were discussed in Western Djinn dynasty, around 265 of the common era. Won't tell you that even Sina Persian naturalists in 1027 discovered and discussed fossils and fossilization. Won't talk about the 1676 megalosaurus femur that Robert Plot discovered. He thought it was part of a Roman war elephant or maybe even a biblical giant. He won't talk about Edward Lild's 1699 sauropod tooth. Won't discuss Cuvier, the father of paleontology who unfortunately was a horrible racist piece of shit and a creationist that in the 1790s he discussed fossils and natural geology. Christopher Peg talked about a megalosaurus jaw in 1797. John Kidd had megalosaurus fragments in 1815. William Bucklin discussed the megalosaurus between 1815 and 1824. Named in 1822 the Mantell family discovered the iguanodon in 1822. Paleontology was coined in 1822. Mary Anning found pterosaurs, ichthyosaurs and all that in the mid 1800s I think around 1828 or 1830. The O'gala Lakota nation found fossils in the 1830s. William Bensted had an iguanodon that was discovered in 1834. But he will tell you about the 1858 hadrosaur discovery that he throws out about Lidi, the anatomist and folk, the geologist and Hopkins who was a minor and had absolutely no idea what he found. But he won't tell you that they were actually discovered 20 years earlier in 1838. And he says one bone was found when actually it was 18th part of other dental battery fragments parts of the let's see here upper left jaw 16 parts of the spine part of the right shoulder upper and lower left arm left and right parts of the pubis and the hips the left leg with the femur tibia and fibula intact foot bones and the toe Richard Owen the Sir Richard Owen pardon me the old world creationist and anti-Darwinian evolutionist actually coined the dinosauria taxon and taxon and taxonomy another term that Alex doesn't know he coined that term in 1841 and then discarded them the iguanodon the megasaurus etc as big lizards he derided the mantel family that found them and he actually coined the term dinosauria to take the credit and he even mentioned in his pre show about Edward drinker cope and often you'll marsh who were students of leading and you know how they were fighting during the bone wars yeah he'll talk about that but he won't talk about that dinosaurs are found on every single continent natural history museums are some of the least funded museums in the world but he will say that the fossils are fake that their replicas are casts but the problem is replica or cast doesn't mean fake it means copy and copies require an original for example sue the tyrannosaur in the field museum that mount is 90 fossil the only things that aren't are a few vertebra bits of the rib cage the arm the left foot in the skull because the original skull weighs over 600 pounds and it's on display near the mount so they had to make a replica a copy of that in order to mount it um he also won't talk about famous fossils that weren't found by paleontologists completely destroying his argument part of the quote-unquote museum industrial complex such as a t-rex relish relative discovered by a seven-year-old a horn dinosaur discovered by a nuclear physicist the dueling dinosaurs an incredibly famous set of skeletons including a completely 100 in-tact t-rex that was found by rancher the alberta mummified inkylosaur that was found by miners miners let's see there's lean ardo the duck bill who was found by an outdoorsman oh yeah and hey alex is in dallas the notosaur found in texas that was found by a five-year-old none of these people are professional paleontologists yet supposedly it's this grand conspiracy that we're all in it to make money sure um but the thing is he says dinosaurs are fake well what about all the other fossils not in the mesozoic such as during the cambrian period or during the ice age like this woolly mammoth tooth right here that i personally pulled out of an ice cave in syberia what about those fossils why aren't they also fake oh just dinosaurs right um the thing is it's a completely made up controversy and alex embraces that because he won't tell you that he has zero actual knowledge or experience in the topic zero actual knowledge of the scientific process uh zero knowledge about anything functional in the topic um he won't tell you that he's a trust fund baby he's a failed stand-up comic he's a failed wannabe television personality and a celebrity hobnopper failed instagram influencer and he started this youtube channel um the conspiracy castle thing because he was bored during the covet uh epidemic um he trolls and manufactures controversy for notoriety like the whole i mask for covet masks things come on man um he accepts donations and money uh to do this on the youtube channel because this youtube channel is for entertainment purposes only not for information what are you up to tonight what 71 so far um he calls for a respectful debate yet moxham derides me and the entire topic during his pre-show alex is a disingenuous line fraud he reduces actual scientific literacy and overall trust of actual x experts and he's embracing this new wave idiocy of dinosaur denial that was started virally with the group christians against dinosaurs now he said in his pre-show that i would uh say he's part of that group he's not but he's riding their coattails uh that group was a hoax group created in 2015 uh by people that were connected to land over baptist parity site um it went viral with a you know host of satire videos i turned around and debunked them in uh the following february um because they did some fake photoshop protest uh photos um yeah the whole idea of this started gaining traction about 2006 2008 uh a little bit of the parity started with the christians for michelle bachman group on facebook in 2014 and that birthed the christians against dinosaurs for a faux movement um and unfortunately satire and parity like that whilst funny encourages jackass grifters like alex to latch on to that invented controversy and try and monetize it so alex what you don't realize is that the entire point of science is fuck around and find out well you did and you're about to so here's the thing you wish dot com version of logan paul you have two options either concede the argument apologize for grifting and disconnect from this stream or go ahead and rage quit and claim you had a connection issue or something because you have no point you have no real argument you are only to do doing this in order to gain followers on youtube and quite honestly it's kind of a waste of time thanks so much we will kick it over to alex for his opening as well and i've got the timer set for you the floor is all yours so i just want to start off by saying thank you very much i really appreciate had uh introduction i think that was very uh well spoken and i think you have done your research on me i really appreciate that and i know you ended your thing with a bunch of personal insults but i don't want to get on the personal insult thing because i understand that you've been a paleontologist for over 10 years you've studied this stuff and so me calling out all the fraud in paleontology like the disinformation that has gone out and all all of the fraud that paleontology is based on it hurts your feelings to hear that and so i don't mean to hurt your feelings but basically i just want to start with the whole dinosaur skin like you said it basically goes back to marsh and co so you have this guy o c marsh and you have this guy drink or cope and basically what they did is is they learned about dinosaurs from this guy named joseph leite and joseph leite was their mentor and cope and marsh did so much paleontological fraud i don't even know if that's the right word that their mentor joseph leite actually ended up quitting paleontology so you got a guy i'm arguing with the guy that wasn't even the founder of paleontology uh uh trevor valley yet the guy that even founded it quit because the people that he taught paleontology to o c marsh and drink or cope were such frauds that their dinosaurs in museums to this day are still a lie up until 2015 the brontosaurus which is misclassified by marsh and cope they both classified it as different uh species of dinosaurs was still in museums up until 2015 so that gives you a little feeling in my stomach that they are using this fraud these lies of dinosaur bones and putting in museums to make money so you can call me a grifter to try to make money you do the same thing you say that these dinosaur bones are millions of years old yet you don't even know how to properly carbon date them or the the radiometric dating process is so inaccurate they can take lava that has just came out of a volcano and harden and measure that and it dates millions of years old so the technology they're using to date these dinosaur bones is provably false and unreliable so i agree there are retiles there are komodo dragons there are big animals we have elephants we have giraffes and they were around a long time ago thousands of years ago and those animals died and sediment went on top of them but that doesn't make them 65 million years old now for my first example i want to talk about the celacanth fish the celacanth fish is a fish that's was supposedly 65 million years old this fish was supposedly extinct that's right they had the fossil record of the celacanth fish look this up c o e l o c a n t h e i can't even spell it but it's a celacanth fish and basically they ended up finding the fish and they say that this fish is 65 million years old well the problem is that fish forgot to evolve like everything else so you have to realize the reason why they lie and they tell you that these bones that are in our generational life with humans the reason why they say that they are dinosaurs it's because they have to fill in the holes of the evolutionary fraud they have to date the earth and make it seem that it's much older than it really is so these dinosaurs are a cute little way to make money and to lie to us and take away our significance now i know that sounds conspiratorial but i'm telling you when you look at the foundation that paleontology was built on it was built on absolute fraud so if you build a house on a foundation like that then the house is gonna collapse and the whole industry is bullcrap and then then you look at a girl like mary switzer who found a dinosaur that had soft tissue still if something 65 million years old how can a dinosaur bone have soft tissue it can't because these paleontologists they can't figure out how old these rocks are they don't know they tell you like they know and that's my problem my problem starts with guys finding the trackadon they found a tooth and they extrapolated a whole entire dinosaur now i'm not saying there aren't big lizards but how can you take a tooth and tell me how big its penis is or how many eyes it has you can't and all the dinosaurs in the museums are fake and they have to piece them together with other dinosaurs so they are a fraud you can't take what you see in the museum as reality and they present it as real so that's my problem my problem is with the fraud that dinosaurs are presented as a matter of fact yet they have fish cilia can't fish they say are dinosaurs that are here today we don't even have every single species of animal found here on earth right now yet they tell you that they were able to find dinosaurs where they were fighting as they were dying they got hit with an asteroid and died yeah right that's the biggest lie i've ever seen in my life yet they want to perpetrate that because that's how they age the earth they want to tell you that dinosaurs are real when they're not yes we have some old bones but they're not a t-rex a t-rex isn't anatomically correct you can look there's only 15 t-rexes ever even found that's not enough for you to tell me that that's the reason why fossil fuels exist so the fossil fuel lie was created by the Rockefellers at the Geneva convention in order to make a scarcity a false scarcity so dinosaurs are like that it's another manipulation tactic by the social engineers and you have guys that are paleontologists yeah there's old rocks but you're looking at an old rock and you're dating an old rock with inaccurate dating machinery so you don't know how old it is and the reason why that i'm actually really personally touched by this topic that Trevor is here in Texas there's a place a dinosaur valley park and the reason why dinosaur valley park is you know interesting because it's in glenrose texas and basically a little bit about dinosaur valley park in glenrose there was a family in 1908 that would sell dinosaur fossils and they actually thought there was all these dinosaurs there but it ended up finding out that they were carving these rocks and selling them and these people were moonshiners so when you look at the basis of the foundation of paleontology it's always been a carnival scam even barnum brown one of the main guys to start paleontology was named after pt barnum the circus mc so i'm telling you guys these are fraud these are grifters there's reason these are the real grifters there's reasons it's always kids that find these she sells because they tell oh hey kid go dig over there it's just like the adams family in glenrose texas it is all bull crap they cannot date these animals and these animals these these big prehistoric animals aren't even correct in the museum you can look up the brontosaurus a brontosaurus isn't even real yet it was on a display up until 2015 as a real dinosaur so if you're telling me this paleontology is so freaking smart that they can't even put the right dinosaurs on display something's wrong and that's the problem is it's rife with fraud and and i don't want to get personal i'm not going to get personal forever because i'm not going to stoop to your level but you say that you've been on all these tv shows that's exactly what it is dinosaurs are all tv it's all creative it's all make believe these people take one tooth and they extrapolate an entire dinosaur and you say that all these replicas were made by originals that's false they they made unoriginals to add to real dinosaur bones before they ever made a replica and that is a fact so i'm just telling you the hadrosaurus folklai that is a lie all these dinosaurs that are put on display like the brontosaurus or the hadrosaurus folklai these are real dinosaurs and they're all misdiagnosed by martian coke who all they did was cheat and steal their entire business was uh a fraud they wrote all these intense papers stating all these dinosaurs they found thousands of dinosaurs yet at the end of the day paleontologists only recognize 32 of those dinosaurs today so when the founders the majority of the dinosaurs that the founders of paleontology found were fake or were fraud or were inaccurate that makes you go huh what's the deal with these dinosaurs and i'm telling you the minute warning the deal is they're made with chicken bones in china you can look into it there is a a good video on youtube dinosaur bones made in china question mark you'll see it it's an rt video it'll show you how they make them and all these dinosaurs are behind lock and key i just have to take your word for it yeah you might dig up an old bone but that doesn't mean that it was a tyrannosaurus rex that's the problem my problem is with the extrapolation process when china puts out dinosaurs that have freaking feathers and then these dinosaurs are different than the founders themselves martian cope can't even agree on these dinosaurs then it's all a fraud and the extrapolation process is so inaccurate you can't find one femur and tell me how big an animal's genitals are it's absolutely absurd so with that i don't want to get personal trevor i enjoy you i think you're a nice guy and i'm sorry that your paleontology and your whole career is a fraud i'm sorry about that we're going to kick it into the open conversation mode as you can tell these guys aren't friends but what we're going to do is we want to ask we're going to maybe start with three minute intervals just to be sure that this is somewhat controlled chaos so we do want to ask for this first three minutes or so alex i want to just ask that you'd not interrupt at all that give trevor a chance to kind of share his initial thoughts if you want to do longer intervals than that guys we can do that but i the big goal for me is i don't want people interrupting so i do want you guys to have a chance to actually say what you want to say so we'll kick it over to trevor for the open conversation floor is all yours oh sorry i was on d&d beyond making up a new character um let's see uh alex you're wrong uh lady quit because of the uh sniping and uncharacteristic uh aspects of the students and that he couldn't secure the funding to continue his research uh to you don't carbon date dinosaurs um radiometric date excuse me sir i don't interrupt uh you don't carbon date you radiometric date them and you state that that doesn't work and that it's a fraud which one's a fraud is that the uranium lead dating the potassium argon dating the rubium strontium dating the lead lead dating which one is it also you mentioned brontosaurus for some reason obviously you since you're not a paleontologist and you actually haven't done any research on the topic uh you don't you don't realize that brontosaurus is actually a valid tax on as of 2015 you mentioned the sila canth uh one that's not a dinosaur that's a fish and two um it's a Lazarus tax on you don't know what that means that means family members of that same animal were alive during the time of the dinosaurs uh just like turtles and fish birds things like that primates or in this case mammals actually not primates they came later um you said there's only 32 recognized dinosaurs there's actually 300 genera and 700 different species uh you bring up uh mary schweitzer and soft tissue you didn't read the paper because you don't realize that the soft tissue was found after weeks of demineralization demineralization alex is when you take a hardened dinosaur bone this one happened to be a t-rex bone that was sliced in the very thin sections and then soaked in a weak acid for weeks and that what was found the soft tissue was actually small nanometer sized chunks of collagen and stuff like that that were completely encased by the surrounding you know the surrounding fossilized material what a lot of the creationists and young earth creationists say that whose argument you're you're writing the coattails on and using to commit your fraud is that they think that you crack open the bone and and goo comes out that's not what happens uh you talked about trachodon and uh how it was a tooth yeah you know how they decided what kind of dinosaur that was because they compared it to other dinosaurs in this case they thought it was a hadrosaur it actually turns out to be a lambrosaurine uh you mentioned the plexi trackways in glen roads texas and how dinosaur fraud and they were selling fraudulent fossils and and trackways and all that uh the adams family were devout creationists doing this fraud so there wasn't scientists that were doing this it was young earth creationists that were um so far you've actually said nothing of any statement that was even remote to true it just shows you have a comprehensive misunderstanding of the entire science and everything i said before other than the dime store alex jones and the wish dot com logan paul um weren't personal insults they were facts that's why you give out your conspiracy castle instagram and not your prime time stein instagram showing you as everything that i said so again you can either concede the argument and apologize and go off and try and monetize your youtube channel or you can rage quit that's that's the only two choices you know i'm not going to quit so is it my time to talk yeah go ahead we uh that was three and a half minutes will give you the same alex so basically it comes down to i'm sorry that the people that create dinosaur fraud i guess they're they're the good they're the uh bad fraud people so the people that march and cope when they created dinosaur fraud they were the they're the good fraudulent dinosaur people but the thing is what i said is about the there's only martian cope only out of the thousands of dinosaur bones they found only 32 of those were recognized so martian cope were only responsible for 32 recognized dinosaurs is what i said but the sila can't fish that's the one that's that's interesting because yet we have the fossilized uh uh bones of it that they say are 65 million years old but why would that fish forget to evolve everything else evolved but yet that fish didn't so the sila can't right there just shows that the dating and that the scientist that you say is so accurate is inaccurate and they make mistakes and now we can go back to the soft tissue you say oh the mineralization well 65 million years old turns everything else into rock but you're telling me it can't turn blood into rock i'm sure that's a cute story but i'm just not going to believe it so obviously i'm not going to convince you of my side and you're not going to convince me of your side but you the fact that you can't admit the dinosaur and paleontology is basically built on a fraud by by oc freaky marsh and drinker cope then i don't know where you know where we can really go i'm going to stay here and talk to you as long as you want but what i'm saying is the foundation and the extrapolation process of dinosaurs and used that we still use today that are in still museums today were built by fraudulent liars that had ulterior motives in the bone war than actual science so when you look back at everything they did it was a bull crap so you can tell me all this new stuff but all the new data that you find like the archaeo raptor that was fake that the chinese put out that was a real dinosaur that was real scientists that did that there was real scientists putting out fake rat fake dinosaurs and they said that this is a transitional species that's the problem there is no transitional species with any of these dinosaurs so it's just provably false and the fact that we can find them so easy we can go to dinosaur valley state park and just dig them up yet you say that all these ancient civilizations knew about these dinosaurs that's incorrect they didn't have the idea of big t rexes maybe the china dragon and maybe there were some sort of dragons but the t rex that you described today is fake in the extrapolation process the paleontologists used to create these dinosaurs that they've never seen they've never seen these dinosaurs they don't know the color of its skin they don't know the body temperature of it they don't know its diet yet they tell you that they can look at a dinosaur and tell you if it ate meat or if it ate freaking vegetables it's just bull crap and i get that that's you know hard for me to hear but you can personally attack me all you want i'm not trying to personally attack each other i'm just saying the dinosaur museum the dinosaur industrial complex is a fraud they make money they use it because it's open source anybody can throw a dinosaur on a t-shirt and sing dino live and that's the reason why the dino life is a fraud and i hope you guys do go follow my primetime stein instagram and conspiracy castle instagram thanks so much we'll kick it back uh to trevor uh let's see archaeo raptor was not uh created by um scientists in china um it was actually two different dinosaurs stuck together and it was being sold by a uh fraudulent gem dealer in tucson arizona uh the celacanth um even though what you're trying to do is deflect and bring this onto an evolution topic and i'm not going to let you just to kill the whole celacanth thing since you have a gross misunderstanding intentionally because you're trying to continue this character of yours um this this weird stand-up act that you're doing right now uh celacanth's actually uh have been in the same round about same there are physiological differences in all the different genera for about 400 million years um not just 65 and the thing is the celacanth that are alive today are evolved forms of the ones that are extinct see that that's how evolution works but we won't get into that that's for a different debate with somebody else that uh has more time um let's see you keep on bringing up uh cope and marsh and see i you know i have gotten their names wrong before when i was drunk um but it's off neil uh marsh and edward drinker cope i said i always see marsh yeah but it's off neil um it's a weird name i know you you kind of screw uh everybody screws it up i called him ogden um but they were going at it because not out of fame and while that was part of it it got blown out of proportion because they were trying to dig in the same places what you should do is read a great book called the bone wars if you if you're honestly interested in this topic rather than just doing a cursory wikipedia uh run and writing down weird things that you can bleed about like a stuck pig um yeah uh you're just you're completely ignorant of the topic man and i know this is like your character and it's kind of like this cool edgy thing that you're doing but you are personally insulting me because you're calling a hard natural science a fraud therefore you're calling me a fraud even though you don't have the balls to say it directly um i have the balls to say i just don't want to call your fraud i don't want to be rude i'm not trying to be rude but you are trying to be rude i'm not trying to be rude i want to give a chance to finish we're only in about two and a half minutes in uh but the thing is alex you are being rude you're just doing it in an off-handed way you're doing it in kind of this side side loading aspect of it you won't directly say i'm a fraud but you'll say that my science and my research is fraudulent you'll take decades of you know my own research plus hundreds of years of other people's research thousands of years of even more people's research and throw it under the bus and you'll only stick to dinos again you won't i mean yes this topic is dinosaurs are extinct but the dino deniers all of you caricatures don't bother to go after all the other fossils because you know it's all bullshit you know what you're saying is bullshit you're just trying to be this wannabe edgelord man i mean come on you failed your saving throw and died a tragic death due to embarrassment just give it up bud you're fucking spare parts we'll kick it over to alex for about three minutes well like each other i don't i'm not trying to make fun of you i want to be nice to you i understand you're a paleontologist but i'm telling you guys i've looked into martian cope and the basis of the dinosaurs they put in the museum are a fraud there was dinosaurs there was museums presented as real in museums and they weren't accurate so when i'm telling you the foundational issues with the dino lie is my problem yes i get it you find some old lizard bones but when you're you're putting these things on display in museums and they're provably false and even people within the own paleontology world have to correct this then there's problems because there is no it's the prisoners are running the prison when it comes to paleontology there's no nobody there to fact check these dinos i can't independently do any research on my own and go look at these dinosaurs and say oh yes you can but that's not the case you know that these are all under lock and key and so when you go to these uh museums these natural history museums and they present you misinformation it makes me go huh how smart are these people when there are dinosaurs that are on display that are incorrect or that have wrong parts so for me it's hard for me not to see that that is some sort of manipulation now you can call me an edsword i'm not trying to be an edsword i'm just telling you that the lies and the way dinosaurs are presented is factually inaccurate and so you know you're going to tell me that every single paleontologist and thousands of years of science makes everything absolutely correct that's not the case because there's people in new science and new findings that happen every day that change the old rules and theories of science so you're going to tell me that there aren't breakthroughs and that science isn't constantly changing it doesn't matter about the thousands of years before so like i say i'm not embarrassed to come here and tell you that the people that started your whole business paleontology that you even admitted they were in it for fame were fraudulent so these dinosaur bones are not from a t-rex or brontosaurus or hadrosaurus folk lie or whatever taxon or name or whatever they want to give it it's just inaccurate because the extrapolation process is insane you cannot look at a femur bone and tell you every single thing about a dinosaur it's insane you're telling me i'm the one that's a liar you're literally looking at bones and you're creating this guy over my shoulder it makes no sense you have to have so much creative license you have to fill in the holes so my problem is not with the bones you find it's the holes you fill in and it's the presentation of these holes are so provably false that it makes it look like a scam and so when you go to the natural history of museum and they have a dinosaur and it's mislabeled and it's there up until the 90s it's all a scam because it's constant there's nobody to enforce it and keep it credible so at that moment it has no integrity the dinosaur industrial complex has no integrity whatsoever uh you're done yelling cool um you keep bringing up hadrosaurus folk guy um and how it was like a leg i already told you it was teeth spine legs arms pelvis uh a whole bunch of different things and a whole bunch of other fossils um of that same type of uh hadrosaur has been found all over the place um you say science is constantly changing well guess what all the mistakes that people like cope and marsh made about misidentifying things or calling you know one dinosaur something else like oh it's a bronosaurus we'll know it's actually a patosaurus we'll know it actually turns out to be three different kinds of bronosaurus uh that's called science that's called progression that's what we do science is constantly changing we fix the old mistakes paleontology formal paleontology and for some reason you keep saying that cope and marsh were the the founders they they weren't there were people doing this like mary anning and the mantels and kuvie and all these and William buckland of all people doing it well before cope and marsh cope and marsh are just famous because they were the north american paleontologists that found a whole bunch of dinosaurs and you're wrong on the 32 i think it was cope found 56 and marsh found 80 i think so you're wrong on those numbers as well see that's the thing you're working from like partial information that's why you can't be taken seriously dude that this this entire character that you're trying and like throwing out there and like the dinosaur industrial come on i mean yeah okay it was funny for a little while but this is what happens when you start mouthing off people like me who are actual experts come in and we intellectually beat you down like the child you are you're being ridiculous and this continued caricature of what you're doing is stupid so again concede the argument and apologize or rage quit you have two options i'm not going to quit you can keep saying that listen uh this isn't you can keep saying i'm playing a character but you keep on talking about me why can't you just admit there's a fraud and that they're the you you want to get mad at me for exposing all the lies about the soft tissue lies about the archaeo raptor being multiple dinosaurs presented as a transitional species you want to get mad at me but i'm not the one that committed all this fraud i'm just the one that exposing it so you can say if you can you can attack my personality i don't attack your personality i just wish you would actually stick to the argument uh but you can't you just keep on telling me i'm a liar but you don't even sound very accurate or very scientific to be honest so you know we're just going to sit here and we can just proverbially go back and forth i love it i do enjoy the spar if you're going to talk about my character i'll sit here all night and go back and forth with you but i'm telling you there is so much fraud going on in paleontology that you can't defend it so you have to you have to come after me which is fine because you know that it's based on a fraud so all you can do yes you know all you can do is come after my you try to come after my character because you can't defend all the fraudulent stuff like the archaeo raptor or the soft tissue or the inaccurate dating process that you use for these dinosaurs you're coming after me because everything you do in your paleontology world is a lie in creative make-believe and my problem is not with the dinosaur bones my problem Trevor is with the extrapolation process the reason you guys take a bone and all of a sudden you create every single other part of the of the dinosaur that's factually insane so you can call my character all you want but you can't defend your arguments well here's the thing i already completely defended those arguments and refuted yours i told you about the dinosaur soft tissue and what it actually is i asked you directly which dating which radiometric dating is fraudulent was it uranium led potassium argon led led ruby and stronium which one is it you don't have an answer also you keep talking about all of this fraud will there like archaeo raptor i already covered that it was two different dinosaurs put together and then sold by an unscrupulous dealer in tucson so you have already answered all of these and you keep going back to them like some kind of stupid broken record you've already been refuted and debunked and the whole thing is who found all of that fraud paleontologists did scientists did people like you didn't these bullshit caricatures of conspiracy people did not find this fraud science did because that's science's job again science is the basis of fuck around and find out and we do all the time we figure out oh shit brontosaurus isn't real it's actually a patosaurus oh no that's wrong too because we're constantly doing the research that's what you don't understand that's why you didn't know that brontosaurus was actually three different species that are closely related to a patosaurus and that brontosaurus is actually a valid taxon you don't know any of that because you haven't bothered to do the actual research you're just doing this to get clicks well you just look at dinosaurs for your job and with all due respect on Joe rugan didn't you say you're behind on your car payment so you're probably not making that much money during the paleontology you know what i mean so you're obviously not very high in your job or high earning in your job which is fine but i'm just saying in the paleontology you just admitted that it was built on a fraud and now all these paleontology has all these paleontologists have to correct it so that's my problem is the fraud it was built on all this fraud and i keep saying this explain to me this is my question for you mr paleontologist mr super smart man this is my question i can see how can you take one tooth or one dinosaur bone and extrapolate the entire thing and tell you what its body temperature was what its diet was whether it had a penis how many nipples it had and whether it was bipedal or walked on floors how can you look at one bone and tell me all that can you explain that process for me mr paleontologists sure number one by the way who who's winning the bet from your pre-show how many times was rogan mentioned because i i didn't mention it you did that's four-year-old data by the way that you're working with almost five-year-old now um so yeah and that's the thing um paleontology doesn't make a lot of money so that completely refutes your argument but um here let me give you an example what's this do you know what this is this is a woolly mammoth tooth how do we know that mammoths and elephants are related well it's cut looking at analogs it's looking at this tooth material for example seeing that it's in a dental battery it's the series of tooth plates and then if you look at asian and african elephants you can see that they're closely related you can do things like look at this bone you have no fucking concept of what this is i do because i have comparative anatomy that i can use i can compare this to modern day examples and then i can tell you that hey this looks a lot like a quadruped because of the width of it and because of how the proximal distal ends are and oh this actually turns out to be a fossil horse toe and we can do that so that like you keep saying you keep bringing up trachodon for example uh we compared that tooth we being paleontology we compared that tooth to other teeth we found and oh look it looks like a hadrosaur or now it looks like a lumpia sore it's called comparative anatomy where actually most paleontology started it didn't start with paleontologists it started with anatomists because they're doing things like finding stuff like proximal or sorry i shouldn't use technical terms with somebody like you uh lower ends of femurs of thigh bones and they are thinking oh wow that's probably from some biblical giant well because it looks like the end of a femur it looks like the end of a thigh bone comparative now comparative anatomy is is very simple i like i know this is a tooth why because it has enamel and dentin and cementum and roots and a chewing surface it has all of those that's why i know that that's a tooth trying to figure out what it's from you then have to go through and compare that's what science is and what paleontology does and just because somebody got something wrong before doesn't mean it was fraud it means we didn't know them and here's the biggest and best question that i have for you alex if they aren't dinosaurs what are they you didn't answer my question though uh what are these bones that we find they could be big lizards commuter dragon so to answer your question these are animals that there's nothing new under under the sun in my opinion so i don't believe that these are the dinosaurs that you present but you answered you said comparative uh uh bone structures i don't care about that i'm talking about the extrapolation process how do you get a bone and how can you tell me from that bone what the animal's body temperature was how could you tell me that it's diet and you're going to say the tooth cuts this way i think you said that a tooth cuts it's you can tell that it's meant to cut a throat but how can you extrapolate how explain that i'm just serious i mean this all do is like how do you take a dinosaur bone and then create whether it had uh feathers or not whether uh what color its skin was how would you know from a bone what color a dinosaur's eyeball is well it's really simple look at this tooth for example do you see how it's flat and grindy that means it probably ate plants is it sharp and pointed well that means it probably ate meat it's very simple have you looked at your own teeth have you seen that they're a mixture of both pointy shearing things and flat grindy things means you're an omnivore and able to eat both plants and meat we can look and see that they had feathers because of the actual attachment points on the ulna on the arm bones we can see that we can see that they're related to birds and that birds are in fact dinosaurs because of again comparative anatomy and why t-rexes have keel bones and have various morphologies like the theropod or beast foot that they're named after looks like a big chicken you said that they could be a big komodo dragon um i've actually seen komodo dragons i studied them as a biologist uh you find me a komodo dragon that's 40 feet long and weighs about seven tons then you can say oh it was from a big lizard well yes actually they were from big lizards they were from very large reptiles we call those large reptiles as coined by sir richard own dinosaurs or terrifying lizards terrifying not mean scary but terrifying mean large and majestic so what we can do is we can extrapolate that information by comparing it to other things a saber-tooth cat for example we knew it had a bob tail so we know it wouldn't run like a cheetah would because long tails are for running short tails are for ambush what kind of environment did it live in oh it lived in riparian forested areas all over north america so it probably had a tawny or spotted coat kind of like bobcats or pumas we can use modern animals to unlock the ideas of what old ones looked like but here's the thing paleo artistry is a totally different thing than paleontology we find the bones or in some cases mummified dinosaurs like leonardo or the ankylosaur in uh alberta you want to know what a dinosaur looked like you look at that one we know how its skin was formed we find skin impressions scale impressions feather impressions there's so much to paleontology that you don't know that you're basing this character on that it's kind of laughable i mean all you're doing is embarrassing yourself no i was in my turn to talk yeah if my main question and well how just answer this question i just did no you didn't answer the question how can you tell the color of an eye or how many eyes it has the color of its eye but looking at a bone oh because i'll tell you why because how many eyes it had no no you compare it with a modern animal how many eye stock is this just a random modern animals for your lie if you didn't have these animals to compare it to you wouldn't even know what you're looking at so you're basing all your data you even admit it on modern animals proving that it's a lie that just shows you you're using modern day animals to figure out the current dinosaurs you're looking at to extrapolate this oh this looks like a lizard so that means it's 65 million years dude that doesn't make it true you're using modern animals to uh uh extrapolate these dinosaurs you just admitted that proving that it's a fraud you can't look at a bone and then and then look at a modern day animal and to tell me exactly what that dinosaur looked like so when you look at this paleo artistry and you go into the museums there's so much paleo artistry that's fake that's presented as real that's my problem my problem is with the fraud and you admitted that the paleontology industry has is rife with fraud so and you admit that they need modern animals in order to classify these old ones it just shows you these animals aren't old dude it just proves you're right there they're not 65 million years old comparing it to a modern day animal you need that modern day animal to be able to tell what it is so that just shows you wouldn't even know what it was if we didn't have it so if so fact though you need modern day animals these are modern day animals bud that's not at all what i'm saying and also that's not how you use ipso facto um no uh see you're saying since we use modern animals to figure out what bones are what therefore dinosaurs are modern that's that's not that's a horrible fallacy uh that you just did and that's not what i said at all we compared them it's called comparative anatomy so i know this is a tooth because of how it's structured because i have looked at modern teeth i know that this is a chewing surface because i've looked at modern teeth that doesn't mean this is a modern animal we look at dinosaur teeth and figure out oh these are formed in a dental battery and they're flat and grindy so they're herbivores oh these are very large banana sized steak knives with serrations on them that are made to destroy flesh so it's a meat eater that's really simple as it comes to eye color that's artist interpretation that's just that's all that is how many eyes does it have we count the holes in the skull where the eyes would be it's real simple and how do we figure that out because we look at modern animals and we figure well if it's a reptile or a mammal and they have binocular vision uh they have two eyes just like you do just like i do if you look at a human skull would you be able to figure out how many eyes it does but interesting point on that if you don't know what you're looking at you kind of just figure it out that's why mastodon fossils were thought to be cyclopses because there's no bones in a trunk the large nasal opening in the front they thought was one giant eye socket thus the cyclops was born because mastodons don't have flat grindy teeth like mammoths do they have pointed teeth mastodon or nipple tooth they have crowned teeth that look a lot like human teeth so somebody that doesn't realize what they're looking at decides wow this must have been a giant human with one eye but later on science comes along and fixes that that's not fraud that's just being wrong you need there to be fraud like some ulterior motive for your entire narrative to work but that's because you have a classic misunderstanding of science science questions itself we figure shit out that's what we do we look back and go that's that's not a cyclops it's a mastodon because we know what mastodons are now because we found more of them that's what you fail to realize there isn't just one hadrosaurus fulcai we found a lot more since there isn't just one archaeopteryx we found a lot more since there isn't just one feather dinosaur we've found a lot more since you're trying to take 1800s science and apply it to 2020 when there's a whole bunch of shit that happened between them and now for example the whole brontosaurus thing in 2015 which you were blithfully unaware of well the brontosaurus is actually not a real dinosaur and then some paleontologists in 2015 actually said now the brontosaurus is three different types of dinosaurs so i do know a little bit about that but i did look into that but basically it just comes down to what you said earlier they tell the eyes by artist interpretation so that's my problem is there's too much artist interpretation i know but see your whole industry is based on artist interpretation and that's my problem it's like watching Jurassic Park you present these as a fact like you present this t-rex like it's a fact and it's just not because they have to take this artist interpretation because they don't even know what color eyes it is you just admit it that you can't tell me what color in animals eyes is and that is artist interpretation so you're going to tell me that you can you can tell me every single other thing about this dinosaur that you can't tell me the color of its eyes that means that everything you just said is a fraud because you should be able to tell everything about the dinosaur but you can't so you don't have anything to compare it to so you're wrong you have to use artist interpretation to tell me the color of an eye so that means you can't extrapolate this information from the current data set that you're using from the bones you're using so you have to use what is called like you said exactly artist interpretation so that's my problem with the dinosaur lie is there's too much artist interpretation i'm not here to see an artist i'm here to see factual stuff i'm here to i i really want to know what the dinosaur looks like i don't want to know it's what some artistic artist interpretation is of the dinosaur so you just admitted you can say you won this debate but you admit that you can't tell me what color of dinosaurs eye is and that is artist interpretation so that's my problem is that when you go to the museum you're looking at a fraud you're looking at too much artist interpretation and because of that that makes the dinosaur and paleotology world a fraud when it comes to dinosaur bones now are you looking at old bones from old animals that are here today that that are in our lifetime yes and you say that i'm i'm using 1800 science so you're saying in the past 200 years we figured out all this stuff about dinosaur we just got it all figured out in 200 years even though the earth is you know 400 million years old in the past 200 years we figured out all the dinosaurs it's just absurd and i just have to admit you lost the debate you added that there's artistic interpretation and you can extrapolate how you take a tooth and tell me the color of its eye proving that it's fake no that's not it at all you're having some weird like mental breakdown between paleo artistry and actual science we don't care what the color of the eye is because the color of the eye is immaterial however when you find skin impressions that have colored bands that have been mineralized well then you know what the color of the dinosaur was or when you find a spectral analysis of dinosaur feathers and you figure out what the color of the dinosaur was see those are things you don't know about um but what color the eye is you can't i can't tell you what color a dinosaur eye is therefore paleontology is fake how many straws are you grasping for bud like that's the most ridiculous like fake argument of this whole fake topic to begin with i mean that's that's completely asinine just because i can't say a tyrannosaurus eye is brown no but what we can do is we can take casts of their brain cavity and tell you that their visual cortex is so large they can see in the fucking dark and track movement like there's no tomorrow um you also bring up Jurassic Park you realize Jurassic Park is completely lambasted by paleontological ones no you don't because you don't know anything about paleontology we enjoy it for the fun and all of us go there should be more feathers on those raptors and those aren't velociraptors because they're too big you have no concept of what you're speaking of man you like you have zero idea on the topic and no bronosaurus wasn't fake and then we decided to make it three different species it was a species then someone said hey look that looks a lot like a patosaurus so we should rename it a patosaur and lump them together because they look alike why because we compared them oh but then we we compared all of them every single one that's been found and realized now there's actually a patosaurus and three different species of bronosaurus so everything was right the first time it's a self-checking thing it's our we do our own checksum that's what science does that's when you have something like oh the theory of gravity and then all of a sudden gravitational lensing is discovered and then all of a sudden gravitational waves are discovered because we're constantly finding shit and yeah we have found out a whole lot in the last 200 years of we're going to jump into the q&a as we do have a lot of questions that have come in so with this conversation has been a super interesting one i am so grateful that has gone so smoothly and we are going to start with none other than kakarot thanks for your question said trevor would you rather debate eric dubay or kent hovind uh neither i've challenged eric dubay to countless debates and he's always chickened out because he's a chicken shit and kent hovind is just basically another gish colopping jackass like alex here i mean alex has undoubtedly seen dwayne gish and kent hovind and all that um yeah i mean both of them are completely useless kent hovind is just doing it to regain his you know some kind of weird notoriety that he used to have and eric dubay is a absolute fraud that fled the united states uh and moved to thailand and is shacking up with the girlfriend of a junta general um who and he's all against the military industrial complex and freemasons even though he's from a freemason family that's that's an entirely different thing what trevor i didn't know that way go back into that way tell me about eric dubay i didn't know no he eric dubay is a complete fraud he's also a grifter he's like the original grifter except he started out with um flat earth and all that and then he went he's married to he's married to some military person what is that his girlfriend or his wife i'm not sure if they're married or not yet um you know how he's always like anti-government anti-military all that he lives on a military base and his girlfriend or wife is the daughter of a tai general uh uh part of the whole military coup thing that went on there yeah and this is stuff that he doesn't want to be put out in public but everybody knows um i'm just not afraid to say it because i got nothing to lose uh but yeah i would rather debate neither of them because it's a big fucking waste of time i just came on this one to tell you all that it's a big fucking waste of time and that this whole dino denier bullshit is just that it was a hoaxy bullshit that started in 2015 and now it went viral and people are running with it to make money and for notoriety and and by the way uh just to really recap um i there was one point i was going to make with the whole 200 years paleontology thing we've only had powered flight since 1903 and we landed on the moon in 1969 science can work really fucking fast when it wants to got you thank you so much so no preference that's super interesting uh let's see jackasses except decepticons forever thanks for your question said cc can learn namely conspiracy castle or alex can learn all about bones now that he can examine his very own skeleton after mr after trevor tore the bones out of his body mortal combat style fatality finish him i disagree our next step to rodent the opponent rodent last name thank you for your question said alex did your mummy replace your corn flakes with lead paint chips an old little bit of lead paint as a kid i liked chris farley so he said he ate lead paint so i tried it yeah i've had lead paint as a kid any yes any tommy boy reference is good here and thanks twood wasle for your question said go alex let's burn all the dinosaur bones are you in well i don't want to burn the bones i don't want to do that now wow you've inspired someone okay next up thanks for your question erikson claire who says alex do you believe that intercourse leads to children or are you a stork theorist well i mean you can have sex and not have children so i don't know what they're even i mean you can have a condom you can have birth control so yeah i believe babies are made by having sex yeah i mean is that that's a student i don't want to and solely deo gloria thanks for your question said question for alex if you found a complete t rex fossil would you want to raise a thousand number skull 20 feet into the air anchored to a metal pole knowing how rare it is i would not i don't understand what they're saying if you found a complete uh skeleton or nearly complete skeleton for example like sue in the uh um in the field museum when you have a near priceless 600 pound fragile skull you don't want to stick it on a pole 20 feet off the ground you'd rather take a cast of it again a copy and put that on the mount rather than the skull itself and sue's skull was in so many pieces that had to be reassembled anyway it's too fragile to mount on uh on the mount itself that that's what they were referencing your mic your mic james we can't hear you're muted thanks so much appreciate that and i'm sorry wilson says i bet james thanks eric dubai is dumb too i don't know the fellow but based on trevor i'm not sure about this fellow and let's see fox molder thinks your question said stop believing the lies trevor your ego is disgusting they say you've got a critic here trevor they say stop believing the lies i'm sorry i make you jealous simply because i actually have a concept of this topic next up thanks for your question twid wasle oh no that was a the bone burner next up thanks for your question this is from jamie russell who says for trevor triceratops equals torosaurus same species uh no um so here so here's something you can learn alex um there are two fraud is a dino fraud more dino fraud you're gonna call it fraud because you don't know how science works let me tell me about it please i'm interested i love to hear the dino fraud so triceratops is you know three horned face it's the seratopsian the the vegetarian dino we know by its teeth um that has the three horns and the frill on its back torosaurus is also a horned dinosaur or seratopsian and there's uh one maybe two paleontologists out there that are saying that torosaurus is the adult tyrant uh sorry not tyranosaur that torosaurus is the adult triceratops um that that's because we have found not because it's fraud but because we've found more we've done more research and found more examples of it there are dinosaurs that are growth stages of the same species like pacicephalosaurus and draco rex and stuff like that it turns out that the small spiky headed one and the not really spiky but more dome headed one are actually the same species in different stages of growth so naturally these same paleontologists decided to go throughout and they saw that the torosaurus was large and kind of shaped like a triceratops but the problem with that is we have found juvenile and young adult torosauruses and we found juvenile young adult and adult triceratops and their areas don't exactly overlap so no torosaurus is not a adult triceratops triceratops already this is its own thing and torosaurus is its own thing there's a whole bunch of different seratopsians uh diablo seratops utah seratops which i actually helped excavate um there's shit there's so many i just kind of lock up when i start thinking about them um but seratopsians there's a whole lot of them my personal favorite is styrochiosaurus and pentaseratops they're really huge either spiky or really really big frills but again no torosaurus is not triceratops gotcha and thanks for that that's really interesting and rodent last name oh you've got a critic here alex they say alex do you grift for a living or only as a hobby no answer nice right next thanks for your question daver says elephants can't be any larger than they are the skeletal structure won't support any larger so then how can a dinosaur twice the size of an elephant exist without collapsing on its own weight uh very he's trying to trying to talk about the square cube law which is actually really really good uh the thing with uh elephants and mammoths and all that uh that's not as large as an elephant can get that's as large as that species can get but there were much larger mammoths uh like the step mammoth um than that uh during uh during the ice age uh step mammoth i think is uh don't quote me maybe a million years million and a half 1.3 maybe um yeah uh anyway uh the thing with that is the uh why you know why are they're larger i mean for example like a tyrannosaur you're talking like 40 42 feet long seven to nine tons well their bones were hollow so you don't have the weight of a mammalian bone for example like on a like on a mammoth or or an elephant uh if your bones are hollow they and the hollow not like there's a complete hole in them it's not like hollow but they have honeycomb structure like modern birds because birds are dinosaurs uh with that as long as you have a large enough area for muscle attachments your bones are not incredibly heavy and all you can get very very very large uh look at whales for example uh whales they're buoyant and they're the blue whale is the largest uh animal to exist period like they have a heart the size of a 1979 Volkswagen super beetle i mean they're huge but uh the the square cube law is sometimes uh misinterpreted on that dinosaurs absolutely could be that large simply because their anatomy allows it super interesting thanks so much and rodent no last name says trevor you got let's see what does this say i don't know what crits is this a slang that the young kids use at it they say trevor you got plus five intelligence plus three to charisma and are rolling naturally 20 crits tonight uh that's a d and d reference rolling a crit um for example i've got a die right here rolling a crit is rolling a 20 on a 20-sided die uh to hit usually crits you play dungeons and dragons at your end of paleontology so you love it you really love dragons that makes sense you have a really creative mind i i get it dragons i do want to hear you is defining crits alex hold on a second well dragons are just dinosaurs being described by an ancient civilization that's all what a dragon is so yeah i'm but the thing is i was an into dinosaurs when i was a kid i wanted to fly the space shuttle i fell into paleontology man yeah i i didn't paleontology chose me i didn't choose it so super your whole your whole thing of like you know in it for the money yeah that that doesn't pan out we know you don't have any money we do have to move on to the next one we do have a lot of other questions whatever happened with that hold on a second simmer down over there i'm sorry wilson thanks for your question we they're they're complimenting this you know we might have a nice one for you alex i mean i don't know it's it's theoretically possible we have i'm sorry wilson thanks for your question says don't move alex can't see you if you don't move thanks nice to ask that see that's my question is how can you tell me how a dinosaur sees that if you if you move they can only see if you move but you yet you can't tell me the color of its eye you can tell me how the eye works that you can't tell me it's it's the color of it that's how you know it's a fraud trevor it's all fake because we can take a cast of its brain cavity and see the size of its visual cortex but i'll mean you can tell it's visual cortex i do want to hear the full answer before we it's it's easy when you when you have a hole in the skull where your brain is and i actually just recently got an MRI in a series of scans and all that because yay break cancer but um when you take a cast of the interior of a skull you can actually see you won't necessarily get like all the folds and everything of the brain but you can see shut up you can see where all of the different parts of the brain are for example like the hippocampus the visual cortex prefrontal frontal lobes all of that um if you actually did take a semester pre-med you should know all this um so you can see how large the visual cortex would be you can see where the channels for the optic nerve would be and how other questions so we do we we have the conversation we do have other questions from the audience that i do want to quit get to yet um i can't help it we we can tell how big a visual cortex is and what that would do and how it would function but what color the eyes are you keep going back to this because you don't know it because you don't know it because i just don't fossilize right you tell me you know everything about the you heard response trevor we don't have blue eyes i'll like you don't have time to go into uh another discussion we do have other questions i do have to ask as you mentioned it like do you know the results of like are you currently going to the doctor for potential brain cancer uh i've thankfully thanks to friends um i have re-upped my insurance and um i'm uh uh should have um i think i think scheduled for july january i almost said july uh january for the biopsy and the the tree panning which is really funny i've always wanted to you know go through tree panning which is uh digging a drilling a hole in one skull um i think that's happening in january i've got one more series of scans for that and uh yeah in a completely unrelated note like my insurance dropped me and all that thanks to kovid and yeah that that's a whole lot of fun so uh yeah i've uh my friends set me up much to my chagrin actually i didn't want to do want them to do it but they did it anyway uh they set me up with a girl fund me that's that's going okay i think we're like halfway there um haven't looked at it in a while my folks i don't know i forgive me if i don't need to like put you on the spot but folks um i'm gonna look for that go fund me link so i can put it in the description as i hope you don't mind me doing that trevor i know you didn't ask for it but it's something that i know it's it's okay if you want to do that go for it um i i think i think i have a link for it on my uh on my twitter i'm already typing it in just because we do want that and that's one thing as a reminder folks is that we hope you consider going to this go fund me link and as i promise i will go there after this debate to be able to give my uh a gift of well both of thanks for coming on and also just a general gift of and i'm turning and you really don't have to it's not something that i was aiming for so but i have my i have a very small core group of friends that were sick of me um refusing any kind of help because i'm just not that kind of guy and they set it up anyway and set me up uh all that and i'm just kind of like all right fine i had no idea what we were going to do is we will donate 100 of the super chats from tonight's debate hold us to that we want to be accountable you'll see we want to be able to pay for that hold they're about to put in your brain i want to be able to make sure it gets paid for we will i'm dead serious about that so folks you can uh hold us accountable you we just lost alexis i don't know if his connection just went out but i know you're not asking him not asking for it i'm dead serious about that and folks uh i would suggest at this point we don't have a lot of time for extra questions and um basically i would suggest i'm going to put that link for the go fund me okay i tried to change the browser i exited but i'm putting a link in the chat right now and so sorry uh trevor if this is like just please allow me so what i'm i'm doing uh i'm putting it's it's your youtube channel thanks for your patience with me and so basically i'm putting it both in the live chat right now and end in the description and so i want you folks live chat please do folks go to this go fund me and we're going to wrap up shortly we've got a few questions yet but like i said we're going to give 100 of the super chest from tonight and and so we do uh check on the donor's list for for accountability purposes you can always ask us for receipts on donations folks in the audience because and speakers too like because we do want to have like full transparency if we say we're going to do something then we obviously have to do it we have to be open to people asking like hey can i see the receipt it's like yeah like even if it's your first time here so that link to go fund me is in the description folks and thanks so much what i'm going to do is really appreciate that but thanks absolutely yeah totally well modern day debate is here for you and so um yeah i hope that everything goes smoothly the treatment i'm glad your friends have pulled together and uh taken action for you so that's uh it sounds like you've got great friends and so uh we hope it's going smooth and i will jump to the next question so this one comes in from got all these oh we do have shannon q says tell trevor i this i'm not making this up this is actually like shannon q i only say that because the timing uh shannon q says the senators tell trevor i love him please thanks for that shannon and tioga who says i love trevor too so you got uh support out there and that was even before mentioning the uh go fund me or anything so shannon q's a great person i have to say even though she has horrible taste in hockey teams that doesn't surprise me so but yeah no she is she's been a huge help to us so we do really appreciate shannon and so um igui himawari let me if i don't know if i miss pronounce that says trevor does paleontology have any predictive power or general utility for the foreseeable future of the human species uh no because paleontology we like to say that paleontologists don't dig people um that would be anthropology uh but no paleontology while we can use things like paleo climatology and things like that to get an idea of how the earth reacted in the past and how things like the shixalube impactor uh in you know damage to planet and things like that um we don't necessarily we the the only thing we use for any kind of predictive ability uh which makes it a hard science uh much to uh creationist chagrin is we look at different animals throughout the fossil record and try and figure out where a transitive species would be in the middle of it that's for example how we found tiktolik we're like okay there are lobed fin fishes here and there are things walking on earth on you know on land here so if you look right here we should find oh look there's tiktolik um but we don't make any predictions or anything uh for humans uh in the future we we like to say that uh you know learning about the history uh creates keys at open doors of the future but that's um mainly to figure out like how animal evolution will happen or how the climate will shift or how it is or looking at the history of the climate and seeing how we're impacting it so greatly that's what we can that's what we do but we don't we don't make calls well with humans it's it's not our gig gotcha and so uh folks i thanks so much for all of those super chats like i said we will make good on that promise want to encourage you i have put the uh pinned the uh go fund me link so you can give directly to go fund me that's in the uh live chat right now we don't have enough time to read uh we're gonna try to read through as many of these as quick as we can just because we do want to respect the time of the debaters so let me keep moving through this one comes in from i just got a dragon miniature to paint that's all you got it and then it's kind of cool mic bill ars says good point alex how do we in fact know that sue's name is actually sue artist interpretation fraud oh my god sue was named after well i do want to wait wait wait i just want to ask a question check out hold on one second we alex for real we do want to respect time like it's already we're on close to an hour and a half and so i i do really want to get through this quick just a quick question it's just i don't want guys to be here all night so just good give let's give trevor an answer or a chance to give an answer well no sue's just named after the discoverer that's what sue's name is the person that finds it usually gets to name it or the person that describes it use uh gets to uh name it by normally um or uh anything like that uh sue is just a you know a placeholder name for a transverse rec specimen of an of a unknown currently unknown gender was thought to be female maybe male not entirely sure we're just calling it sue gotcha thanks so much and next up thanks so much for your question this one comes in from uh let's see tioga who says alex is the tie real or a clip on it's real it's real next stripper liquor says for trevor respect for alex loosen your tie young man and then thanks for your question from let's see yeah go polo's man it's way the future next i'm lucky jersey trevor i wanted you to wear the hockey jersey no people in your chat wanted me to wear a hockey jersey and they wanted you to make fun of me wearing a hockey jersey that's why i like sports you can like sports i don't care they like sports i mean you you don't like sports you like the cowboys i know they suck big i agree with that they suck don't get me started rather they suck next up thanks for your question this one comes in from co2 metal says for alex do you believe every non-dinosaur non-dinosaur fossil is fake too which fossils if any do you believe are real no it's just for me basically what comes down to is i get that there's these old bones but it's like even if you look at the t-rex skeleton without the long legs it basically looks like a huge long iguana basically so yes i get that there's iguanas today and these are ancient creatures but that they're 65 million years old the okay any sort of radiometric dating all metric dating all of that technology for me is inaccurate because when they send off these bones if they don't specify that they're dinosaur bones they've come back and they've only dated them at 10,000 and 12,000 years old and people have actually gotten trouble for not labeling these samples and they sent it to the lab as dinosaur bones young earth creationists attempted to do that specifically the rate team and they sent them to be carbon dated knowing that they would come back with a fraudulent number they did not send them to be uranium dated or strontium dated or rubidium dated or argon dated they specifically sent them to be carbon dated which would kick back an incorrect number same with your whole lava thing from that that's that's a known fraudulent tactic of the rate team of the inner of the creation science museum and all that so you don't i'm not saying you are i'm saying that that's where you're getting that we've got to move on hold on alex i do want to i want to give you a chance to answer the question alex namely the uh which fossils if any do you believe are real and we've got to and then we've got to move on to the next question i believe some bones are real but like you know if you find some t rex skull there's only 15 of them so i don't necessarily believe is real in my opinion and uh so each individual dinosaur i don't know every single dinosaur i don't have to i just know that it's a fraud and that the how they presented to us is artistic interpretation next i don't know that x car sucks but my friend told me that running guys yeah to do this to you forgive me blade runner 0001 says for the actual knowledge from trevor alex uh for the actual never from actual knowledge from trevor and then alex please stop okay next uh you uh let's see rodent no last name says alex your argument would be more compelling if you wore a lab coat alex can you start wearing a lab coat wait that reminds me that's just like i don't know anybody kent hovind alex's dad actually wears a lab coat yeah he does in his stream so next up jay v rustle it's uh says godspeed and stand alone says for trevor and malag haxa says all power to trevor and brandon ardeline says james did you screen these chat participants that's just an old inside joke from darth docans who used to ask me that uh let's see then let me just be sure that i've got every question so i want to say thanks so much folks that go fund me for trevor is in the live chat and so it's pinned at the very top and i highly encourage you to make a trip on over there and then we have another let's see journalism thanks for your question says why you probably know who journalism is okay yeah he's he's famously been debunked as a flat earther yeah hey how's that uh how's that uh uh that laser experiment and this and the uh spotlight experiment going bud yeah that's so what do you say he says why do dino bones come back as eight through 12k years or i i think they're saying uh he's saying why do dinosaur bones come back as 8 000 to 12 000 years old when carbon dated and don't and don't say we can't carbon date dino bones they are too old that's presupposing the outcome that's because when you carbon date a dinosaur bone you're actually getting the background carbon radiation so it kicks off and creates a faulty date code what i would like you know go ahead take something like a take anything that would be carbon dated like this mammoth tooth and give it some argon argon dating or argon lead dating or you know ruby strontium dating or any of the other 30 odd radiometric dating and it will kick back some fucked up screwed up kind of date code because there's no carbon no not because it's unreliable i do want to give him a chance to actually answer the question from jarenism yeah that that's because jarenism um you and the other grifters and the young earth creationists uh knowingly send material that does not have enough carbon in it to be carbon dated and it kicks back with these young ages that's why this is a known young earth creationist trope that you guys do so that that's the thing like all of your attempts at trying to refute actual science you all fall flat on your faces um hold on once like we we do have to i hate to do this alex but we do have a lot of questions we do have to keep moving i just did have that yeah that open conversation for you guys next thanks for your question this one comes in from tim new jersey devil says hey trevor why no hockey apparel tonight uh didn't feel like it um alex's crew has like 60 odd people in his pre-show a couple of them were like oh i hope he wears a jersey you should make fun of his hockey jerseys so i decided to you know shove my hand up their ass and wear a polo shirt tonight however i was going to wear my geeky jerseys viefer vendetta jersey uh that would be cool yeah it's it's a great jersey um but no i just decided not to um because you know why give why give people what they want when i can do the opposite that's right next up thanks for your question this one comes from ricks world says science is fact based doesn't care what we believe next absolutely correct lily aja says mauled more this is for trevor and science thanks so much for that lily aja and let me just double check that we got all of them i think that is all of them but just in case anything came in yeah so we're all set with that want to say thanks so much everybody for your questions for that q&a and thank you so much for a guess it's been a true pleasure trevor and alex we really appreciate you guys coming on they're both linked in the description folks as well so that way if you want to send a friendly tweet to trevor or let's see you if you want to leave a comment a friendly comment hopefully too i know that you guys i know uh everybody out there i know it's like we we host controversial topics sometimes i mean this compared to some of the political topics is almost uh you know it's like we have a range of controversial topics we hope that everybody does feel welcome no matter what walk of life you're from we hope you try to be charitable and considering you know the different sides that are out there and so we do hope though you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you're from as mentioned both of our guests are linked in the description so i encourage you to check that out and want to say one last thanks to our guests alex and trevor oh thanks for having me on alex a nice attempt and uh have fun ripping me apart in your post show well i don't want to rip you apart you're you're going through some health issues so i really wish you the best it doesn't matter that doesn't change who i am i'm still an asshole well yeah but i don't want you to be sick i want you to make it i think you're a good guy and i know you believe all this fake stuff because you've dedicated your life to it but it's like there's a lot of stuff you can dedicate time to i love you please follow my please follow a conspiracy castle i love you trevor please hey let's play dungeons and dragons together sometime that's like you couldn't handle my campaigns the battle that you mean trevor i bet you would the battle that will last forever want to say thank you all right that's enough well to say keep something out the reasonable from the unreasonable folks take care and that's all