 Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. Sita Hagenberg and John Kelly from The Bendable Body Method are joining us. There's one exercise that you should be doing for a longer life and that's stretching. Now before you go, oh now wait a minute, stretching, that's, I don't know about this. You got to hear these guys and we'll get into the story of how I found them or they found me or vice versa. So they do what's called the bendable body method. So welcome to the podcast, Sita and John. Hi Dr. Gundry, thanks for having us. So what the heck is a bendable body method? So it's a form of resistance stretching that targets the fascia, the connective tissue in the body and essentially erases or removes the dense dehydrated aspect of fascia that accumulates over years of sitting too much or repetitive movements and whatnot. And it allows the muscle to do its job better in your body, which is namely to contract and lengthen and move you through space. And then it also takes the pressure off of your joint structures where most people tend to have the pain show up. I can specifically tell you how we do a stretch movement because it's very different than any other kind of stretching, traditional stretching, yoga, PNF, anything that's out there. It's inherent in the method that we go straight to the fascia. So for example, in traditional stretching on the whole, you start with a muscle group in an already lengthened position or stretched out position. And then you might try and lengthen it further to increase your range of motion. Everybody's pretty familiar with that. You could think of like a classic wide leg bend, you know, you have your legs out wide and those muscles on the insides of your thigh or long, and then you bend forward to lengthen them further. So that's like a normal stretch. So we wouldn't do that at all. We actually want to start with the target muscle in a shortened or contracted position. So you get it short and all of the different stretch poses allow you to do that. Then you add another contraction in the muscle, like you contract it, tighten it, resist it, tense it. I often tell people, it's like, you know, a little kid makes a muscle, they like make a muscle, you do that in the, in the, exactly. You do that in the muscle that we're targeting that's already in a shortened position. Then this is the other thing that's super different from traditional stretching. You maintain the contraction. You don't let it go while you then lengthen it through a range of motion. And you only lengthen it so long as you can actually contract the target muscle. And that's what involves the fascia. So like a traditional stretch, they often would want you to like relax into the stretch. This is a very active movement. You're contracting and resisting against it. And then the other thing too is in traditional stretching yoga and whatnot, the focus is on the end position, the pose, the ultimate pose. We don't care about that. I mean, we do care about it, but we really care about the start position, getting the muscle shorter and shorter and contracting from that place while you lengthen it. And it's, there's something really interesting that happens when you stretch in this way. Why don't you explain that, John, the difference between strength and stretch and how the, we grab the fascia. So okay. So in a traditional strength training, you know, when people lift weights, for instance, you use a bicep as an example, you start with it long, you add force at the end, like a weight, and then you contract and make it shorter. And so traditionally, I've seen it was saying, if you were to stretch that muscle, you might go up to a wall, start here and just make it longer. So the fibers in strength training, they go into each other. The muscle shortens and goes like that. Then they relax and then it gets longer for the stretch. So what bendable body method fills in that space. So from the contracted position to the passive lengthing, we fill in this gap where you keep the contraction and lengthen it, but it doesn't just linearly length. It changes the fascial structure at like a 45, 30 degree angle and it starts to break off and rehydrates the tissue. It's essentially in basic levels, collagen and seawater. And it's your tensegrity structure that shapes you. So it's like a subtractive technology. I mean, to keep it really simple, I usually tell people it's kind of like getting a facial internally, because that dry dehydrated tissue disintegrates and sluffs off or going to get your teeth cleaned. So there's a buildup of that dense fascia from years of trauma. Like you sit too long. That produces micro tears in the muscle fiber, like in the back of your legs. And then the body fills that in with dense fascia. It looks like you want to ask a question, Dr. Gundry. No. No. So how is this different from other fascia targeting techniques, like myofascial release, walfing, foam rollers? Help me with that. Yeah. I mean, that's a question that we answer all the time. It's really simple. It really has to do with the force and the sensation. So when you resist and tense a muscle and then lengthen it for a stretch, there's two forces. There's the force of your internal resistance and contraction. And then there's the force of the opposing lengthening, right? So you have double the force. Whereas if you go to a massage therapist or Rolf or you use a foam roller, there's just one force of the tool or the practitioner on the outside of your body. Now there could be an unconscious contraction that happens internally within your body, but you're not consciously generating a second force, right? So that's the first big difference, because dense fascia has a ton of force in it. So when you're resisting internally, you've doubled or more your chance to change that dense force. The other thing, which is really a big deal, with these other methods, they're applying the force from the outside. So they have to go over your skin and your fat and all these tissues that have sensation. And it can hurt. And many people do say, the balls, it digs in, it really hurts, and they really dig in there, but it hurts. So with this, you skip over those sensation tissues. As a matter of fact, if you're stretching some of the densest, scarred fascia, you won't even feel anything, what to speak of pain. Has anyone ever, I mean you've been a doctor for quite a while, Dr. Gundry, has anyone ever come to you and said, you know what, my fascia's killing me? No, I never heard that. Yeah, because you don't feel it. You're actually not supposed to. So this technique inherently goes right to the fascia, skipping over those sensation tissues so there's no pain. Actually, take that back. There is plantar fasciitis and IT band problems. Generally speaking, people are not feeling their fascia. So what you're saying is you're offering a technique, and I want to get into where this whole crazy idea came from. You're offering a technique that can do this sort of deep fascial breakup without the pain that all of us associate with deep fascial breakup. Is that summarizing that fair? That's exactly right. Exactly. So people come to us, they're in pain and they can't do the normal exercise and they're very tentative, but they'll come to a class and they'll say, I don't know how much I can do and all of a sudden, 60 minutes later, they have all this energy, nothing hurt throughout the whole class, the injury in their knee, because all pain comes from a muscle that stopped contracting biomechanically. So then there's a rotational compensation and usually a torque at the joint, the spine, the hip. But once you resist and contract that muscle, you create a suspension in the joint. And this is a good time to mention tensegrity structures in Buckminster Fuller, who was a wonderful inventor, architect. He was dismissed from Harvard twice. He was a rebellion young man, but he created his geodesic domes that are popular in the third world. And essentially, he describes it as all the forces going to the outside of the structure. And as we get older, we collapse in on ourselves. And when there's pain in the joints, there's a collapsed structure in the joints where it starts to grind. And as soon as you resist and start to change that fascia, you're creating that structure where it supports you from the outside and everything on the inside starts to move more easily and is naturally more aligned. OK, sounds good. Where did this whole idea come about? Because what you're describing is not what any of us think about as stretching. Yeah, we're redefining stretching. I completely agree. So a little history on resistance stretching. The first that we're aware of is isometric stretching. A lot of people when they're younger, you put your hand against the door, push it, and then you let go and it kind of goes up by itself. That's an early form of resistance stretching. In the 1960s, PNF came along with Dorothy Voss, proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation. So that's going to an end. What's that? That's an old joke. Yeah, same to you. Same to you. It took me how long it took me to articulate that properly. So that's going to an end range, having resistance, letting go and then going to a further end range. And then ART, active release therapy, that came along a little in the late 70s, 80s. And then who we learned it from, Bob Cooley started teaching yoga classes in Boston and he started to use resistance in the pose. More force than traditional yoga would do. And this evolved into resistance stretching. It came out of an accident that he had. And that's how we got involved. That's where we are today. And it's still evolving. It's really, we feel like it's the Model T version of what's going to be in three, five, or 10 years. But I wanted to add, Dr. Gundry, because you were saying that this goes in there and it breaks up the dense fascia without any pain or sensation. But there's a hidden gem in the movement separate from the fascia. It's actually not separate. It's integral. It makes you stronger at the same time. Because while you're doing these stretch movements, you're creating a contraction in the muscle to grab the fascia. That's like what goes on. And so with every movement, a little bit of that fascia is erased or rehydrated, however you want to think about it. So then the muscle contracts a little bit better, has a little bit more power to it, and you can move with a little bit more ease. So it's actually not just stretching. It's stretching and strengthening in one. They go together. They have to, which is amazing. One stop shopping. Yeah. So this is kind of like what Joseph Pilates did in creating Pilates for injured dancers. So it's kind of a similar concept. So this started with an injured yoga instructor, huh? Yeah, it did. Yeah. A couple more fun facts, Dr. Gundry. Nowadays, everyone's trying to get really healthy in meditation and produce negative ionic charges to balance all the positive charges that are coming at us and are created through exercise. Some of the latest research, excessive exercise creates inflammation. True. Well, inherent in the contracted movement is an inflammatory response, the immune system responds. In these movements, an actively loaded eccentric movement, it creates a negative ionic charge. Now, that was identified in 1871 by Adolf Fick, a researcher in Germany, where he was doing ocular muscular movements and identified this property. It's kind of oceans, pine forest, meditation, and now resistant stretching, something you can do all the time to repair the cell damage that's happening. Interesting. So just so everybody understands what a fascia is, what I tell people is, if you have a tough piece of beef and you've got gristle in it, that is probably the best way to think of as fascia. And in fact, a lot of tough pieces of meat are the most working parts of the animal. And that's why there is more gristle in that. And we actually, believe it or not, in heart surgery, we see a number of people who, literally because of damage to their heart or overworking their heart, actually develop gristle in their heart. So next thing I want you to do is come up with a resistance stretch for the heart. Let me, we'll work on that. We have one. We gave you one. For my heart, I must have missed that. So what do people come to you with? I mean, how the heck do they find you? You just put up a sign that says resistance stretching? Well, the internet. People are searching for their pain points, how to help low back pain, knee pain. They're also looking for fascia work, because they're hearing it from their physical therapist. They're hearing it from their trainer. They're hearing it from their doctor. That fascia is starting to become a buzzword. And even though it's been studied for over 100 years at the University of Vienna through a team of doctors, Alfred Pissinger, where they determined that all disease starts in the fascia, two doctors from New York two years ago, I think it was a year and a half, two years ago, they identified what they call the interstitium, which is a continuous, which is the connective tissue. So it's starting to become a real organ that they're going to start to acknowledge. And we got a way to change the health of that. But in all honesty, the people that find us, still, it is changing, and there is a greater consciousness surrounding fascia and how the body works and whatnot. But we still get people that have tried almost everything else. And so they come to us with an understanding of what's out there. And so when they find what we're doing, they're like, oh, this is what I've been looking for. This is what I need. Which is why we love going to the ranch, where we met Penny, you know, because that audience is just like a pre-vetted community. So tell me about the ranch, because people watching say, what ranch? Yeah, so we have the great good fortune to be guest presenters at Rancho La Puerta. It's, you know, a top health spot down in Mexico, just over the border. And we met your wife, Penny, there. And it's such an interesting place. They've been at the forefront of pretty much every health movement that there is. And so you go there. I like to think of it as summer camp for adults who like are into health and exercise, amazing food, beautiful pools. And yeah, the audience loves our class. Like we leave and we always tell people, we feel like the Beatles while we're there. Which is great, because we don't normally feel like the Beatles. So, I mean, would a person come to you and say, you know, I have this horrible lower back pain. I've been to chiropractors. I've been to physical therapists. I've Rolf. Or, you know, I have a knee that just won't give up. And I'm thinking of having a knee replacement. So are those the sort of people that find you? Yeah, definitely. I would say the number one issue is joint pain. So whether it be knees, low back, neck, shoulders, elbows, you know, rotator cuff, tennis elbow, you know, any kind of ACL MCL tear, any kind of compression in the spine. So anything that's, you know, a worn out joint, an injured joint, that would be the first entry point. And then we also actually get a handful of people with like autoimmune conditions. And then the other thing that we'll get obviously is like arthritis. Anything that's like a worse version of a joint problem will certainly get. General stiffness will get people who like John mentioned, their PT, their massage therapist has mentioned fascia. And so they're like looking for something to do with fascia. I know fascia is my problem kind of thing. And then yoga injuries, people that either want to get into a better yoga pose or have an injury from yoga. And then there is a whole other sphere where we work with, you know, high-end athletes. So there's that, but I would say the bulk is this other sphere that I just kind of pointed to. Got you. So why don't you, we talked about this before we came on camera. Why don't you show us, you know, a couple of these stretches so that we, you know, can actually visualize, what the heck are you doing? Yeah, definitely. I think that's a great idea. We picked two in particular because you can do it sit seated. Okay. And for two of you mentioned that, you know, some of those muscles have more gristle in them. These two stretches target the tougher areas in the body, the posterior shoulder and then the back of the thigh, the lateral hamstring area. So we've got two for you. Okay. So we're just gonna put our chairs up so you can see us, okay? Alrighty. And for those who are listening to the podcast, you're gonna talk us through this, right? Yeah, definitely. So let me know if there's any volume issues. So when we teach people how to stretch, I teach them what I call the four pillars of a stretch and all four of them are equally important. So the first pillar is the start position. So to create this start position, you can be seated or standing. You're gonna place your palms together and your elbows wide and your hands are above your head. So hands are above the head, palms are together, elbows are wide. We're stretching like the back of the shoulder. Okay. Can everybody, can you see this? Okay, Dr. Gunny. So far so good. Okay. So that's the first pillar, start position. Second pillar is the resistance, the contraction that we talked about, which is so essential to grab the fascia. So for this stretch, to create a contraction, all you have to do is just press your hands together. And you keep doing that and you'll feel the back of your arms and your shoulders tighten up a little. So you maintain that. Keep pressing them together for pillar three, the stretch. And so you lengthen by drawing your elbows together while you continue to press your palms together. And then you let the tension go. This is the fourth pillar and return to the start position. So you don't resist going back to the start position. Then you reengage again, pillar one, start position, pillar two, press the palms together to tense up the shoulders. Pillar three, draw the elbows together to lengthen for the stretch and the back of the shoulders. And then pillar four, let the tension go and go back to the start position. And then you do it again, pillar one, start position, pillar two. You can see I press my palms together and my whole body kind of tightens up. Mine's tightening up just watching you. Oh my God, right? And then I keep doing that and then I draw my elbows together to lengthen for the stretch. And then I release and go back to the start position. And what that does is it allows all of this area, the upper back, the back of the shoulders and into the neck to contract and shorten better. People think about wanting a muscle to get longer, that being the definition of flexibility, it's not. It's a muscle's ability to contract and shorten. That's what brings you into a position. So if you've got like a hunched, internally rotated shoulder that's creating tension up in the neck, you don't actually need to worry about opening your chest. You need to worry about getting the back of the shoulder to shorten. That's, and so as you do that stretch, you can test it out. You should be able to move your neck around a little bit better, especially looking up. Should be a bit easier for that after you've done that stretch. John wants to say something. A nice analogy to think about how a muscle should move. If you have an accordion and you can picture the accordion and it shortens and it lengthens and it shortens and then it twists and it untwists, right? So picture your muscle, say your bicep attaches to your lower arm and your shoulder and it shortens and it lengthens and you turn it in and you turn it out. Now picture that accordion or that muscle and fill it with say 90% cement. All of a sudden you got, it doesn't shorten. So now you can see how the pressure goes into the joints if the muscle's not shortening. And so when, right? So when we shorten the muscle, resist and lengthen it, it's ability to contract and shorten increases. And that's really what flexibility is. It's inherent, it's in the word, flexible, the ability to flex the muscle. So now if my bicep gets short, my tricep can lengthen and. Nice verse then, it's throughout the whole body. So for us dummies who just watched that exercise, I think I'm making a bellows over my head, right? And I, so then that's what I'm doing, right? Yes, and it resists while you do it. Good, all right. Number two, what do we got next? Yes, so I'm gonna just go a little bit further back. So you can do this seated in a chair, which is great because you can do it right in your office. He's gonna take his right ankle and crisscross it on top of his left knee and he's gonna drop his right knee out to the side and interlace his hands on the outside of his knee joint, okay? So that's the start position, pillar one. Pillar two, the resistance, he's gonna press his knee into his hands, so down to the ground basically. Pillar three, the lengthening, he's gonna overcome that force with his arms and draw his knee up into his chest, into his torso to stretch out the back outside of that right thigh. Then release and go back to the start position. So he's driving his knee into his hands and then using his hands to overcome the force and draw the knee up into the chest and then he's driving his knee into his hands and using his arms to bring it into his chest. So it's a movement. It's not a pose, it's a repetition and a movement. So again, the knee is driving down to the ground, the hands are interlaced around the knee and he's driving his knee down while he uses his arms to bring it up into his body. And then after you do that stretch, if you just sit with both feet firmly planted on the ground, there's two things you should notice. On the one hand, you should feel like you're a little bit more on your sits bones, on the leg you just stretched. So you can flex your low back and your pelvis a little bit more on the side you just stretched and the legs should feel a little longer. Interesting. And I noticed, and this happened to me when I did it with you, it's actually a workout because John, you're actually, you're lifting with your arms against all of this and of course you're working with your leg against your arms. So yeah, as you remember, actually worked up a pretty good sweat after an hour, so. You do, it's definitely a workout. Good. So how did stretching affect your health journey? I mean, obviously there was a reason, John, you were some financial wizard on Wall Street or something like that. I learned from the wizards on Wall Street and realized I wasn't gonna become one in my DNA to do that. So I always had weight problems. I would gain weight and the only way I would lose weight was to go running. And I would run a couple of times a week, couple of miles at a time and got down to a nice weight, stop running, the weight would go back up. This was all yo-yo for about 20 years. And then when I started stretching I would tell them about me named golf instructor. My golf instructor was very instrumental in his seat. Was for a couple of years kind of placating me. I'd go to him for a lesson and he'd say, you know, you have a really nice swing. And that would make me feel good. And I'd go off and I'd try and break 90 again, you know, for the 500th time. And then one day I was like a little frustrated and I took a few swings. He said, you got a really nice swing. I said, actually I don't have a nice swing. I've been trying to break 90 and he goes, okay, let's take a few more swings and now let's really look at what's going on. And he told me I was inflexible. Now coming from outside of my family and friends where it was a joke, it's like, hey, Kelly, you put a million dollars at your feet you couldn't bend down to pick it up, which was true. I started the research stretching. I bought famous stretching books, gentle stretching books and the resistant stretching books were the only ones that didn't hurt and I got a result. And once I started, when the weight came off, now it's been 13, 14 years, it's never really gone back on. It improved my digestion, which was always a problem for me ever since I was a kid. And the back pain I had for 20 years, it's gone. The knee pain when I drove a car is gone. And it just feels like you're getting a better body every time you stretch because instead of doing muscle work, getting muscles and you stop doing the muscle work, you lose the muscles. Once you change the fascial structure, it's hard to go back. It doesn't change very easily. It's very long lasting and you continue, improves upon itself all the time. That's a great point. So the naysayer would say, okay, so you're gonna tear your fascia and get it loose, but then the scar tissue is just gonna scar back down. What do you say to that? Okay, well, so you have home improvements, you get new kitchen cabinets, their new kitchen cabinets, unless you take a hammer to them, they're gonna be set and they're not gonna have a problem. So whatever life experience you had, repetitive motion, sitting, a trauma, any kind of trauma that produced the scar tissue, once you remove it, we're all pretty much through all of those events and it doesn't go back. No people have been stretching for years, a few longer than me, some shorter than me. And interestingly enough, if you work, I worked with people in New York for a couple of years and then I went to a Boston for a few years and I came back after three years to work with one of my old clients and he got stretched twice a week. And as soon as we went after going, his hamstring stretched, he both, I said, do you realize or feel that that hamstring hasn't lost any of what, he goes, you know, I can feel that. So after three years of not self stretching or being stretched, you have the ability, the muscle to contract like it did the last time you stretched. It's really a cool thing. It's a money in the bank that keeps growing. Yeah, so I'll give you a personal example. You know, when we met, I've had two rotator cuff tears that I have not gotten repaired and I would never have that operation. And my left shoulder is fairly well frozen, but you guys put me through assisted active stretching. And I can tell you that my mobility in both shoulders is so much better. It's now two months, I think, since we were together. And usually when I do any sort of range of motion, particularly in my left shoulder, they'd be all these wonderful pops and catches and pain when I hit a spot. And I don't have that anymore. And so thank you very much. Yeah, so it really did a number on my shoulders in a really good way. And I wouldn't have believed it because chiropractor said, eh, you know, nothing you can do about or just do some strengthening around your shoulder, girdle, and anyhow. So thank you very much. Thank you. So I can tell everybody it really does work and that's why I wanted you on the program. So as you know, my next book is all about longevity, the longevity paradox. You gotta, what's your favorite stretch for longevity? Any particular one? The muscles on the back of your shoulder and down your neck, they traverse your internal immune system meridian, your thymus meridian. And when you stretch that, you're turning on your immune system and the response you'll get is your body will start to get warmer. Just like when you get a cold or a virus or a flu and your body temperature goes up, that's your immune system turning on. But you can do that whatever you want with a stretch. And then you're always strengthening your immune system because as those muscles get stronger, the thymus and immune system starts to respond. And once that immune system gets higher, then it knocks out all of them. So I'll give you a quick demonstration of that. I know a self-stretch would be you put your arm out, maybe just a little higher than parallel to the floor. The target muscle would be here. I'll take my other hand and I'll turn like this, put it on top and against my own resistance, push it down. And then let it go. Go back to the start position, resist my using my left hand against my back of my right wrist, pushing each other like I'm wrestling with each. And then let it go, that's stretching all this. And after you do a set of eight to 10 or 12 repetitions, you take a rest and you do a couple more sets. And you'll immediately feel your thymus gland start to heat up. You ask for one, that's the one. So that'll keep the immune system going. But the lateral hamstring on the back outside of the leg, the one we showed you earlier, is the one that will keep people moving, keep their pelvis moving and physically locomote them better. So those two are the two important out of the 16 that we teach. And the other bonus that you get with that immune stretch is it helps neck pain. All right. You know, since you brought up the hamstrings, I get asked this a lot and I think this is a really good point to bring it up. I see a lot of women and now frequently men who are diagnosed with osteoporosis or osteopenia. And their well-meaning doctors want to put them on drugs. There, people should understand that there is absolutely no study that has ever shown that osteoporosis or osteopenia causes falls. And it actually, you have to fall to fracture your hip. And there is no evidence that osteopenia or osteoporosis causes falls. And there actually now is increasing evidence that a couple of the drugs, which I won't name, cause spontaneous fractures of the hip and cause spontaneous fracture of the jaw. In fact, I have three women who've had that happen. So what you're saying is correct. Falls cause because of muscular weakness and balance issues. And so we got to get away from thinking we got to take a pill to make our bones strong so we have to strengthen our muscular system. And that will prevent falls. So thanks for bringing that up. So as I told you, we've got our audience question this week and this is from Tammy. Dr. Gundry, I'm so delighted you're doing podcasts. My wish come true. Well, thank you, Tammy. That's great to hear. You educated me and opened up my world. Thank you again. I read your book like it's a Bible and I watch your YouTube videos attentively. But I have many questions. Okay, here we go. Pumpkins, sunflower and chia seeds are on the no list. However, why are flax and sesame seeds okay? Well, this is kind of nerdy deep science but it turns out a plant has, it wants to protect its babies but it also wants its babies to survive and grow. So some plants, what I call naked babies protect their babies by putting their poisons like lectins in the seeds so that if you dared eat their babies you're gonna pay for it. On the other hand, flax seeds and sesame seeds have a hard outer shell that resists digestion. You cannot digest a flax seed. You can't digest a sesame seed. And the plant actually wants you to eat those seeds and then poop out their babies with a generous dollop of fertilizer someplace else. It's wonderful. The other thing you should realize is that sunflower seeds, chia seeds and pumpkin seeds are new world, are American seeds that none of us ever encountered until about 500 years ago. So that's the other reason. Flax and sesame actually come from Europe and Asia and Africa so we've been exposed to those for an incredibly long period of time. So that's why if a plant knows a system of protecting its seed, for instance, like an apple seed, the plant wants you to eat the apple, swallow the seeds, the apple seed will not be digested and you'll poop it out in another place. Great strategy. So that's the difference. So you gotta know your plants and what I try to do in the plant paradox is I want you to eat plants but I want you to eat the ones that like you or are gonna benefit you and I wanna give you a roadmap for the plants that don't have your interest in mine. Okay, so great question. All right, so thank you both. Now, where the heck can people find you? How can they find out how to do more of this? Yeah, well definitely visit our website, bendablebody.com and right about now we should be launching a three training series, a three part training series. Did you say free? Yes, great. You'll learn about fascia, you'll learn the technique and you'll learn the most important areas to stretch that we've talked about today. And then later down the road, there's gonna be more availability in terms of a membership site where you can do live classes with us and we're in New York City. You can come see us from Washington DC right now, actually, so that's where our headquarters are but bendablebody.com is the hub and definitely check out that free training theory. All right, well thanks again for coming on, great work. I think everybody should know about this. It's the next stretching that nobody's ever heard about. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, doc. Thank you for your planned paradox. Yeah, with the cookbooks in the mail, we can't wait to start. All right, thanks a lot. Okay, so thanks again for joining us on the Dr. Gundry podcast. We're always trying to bring you interesting new things because as you know, I'm Dr. Gundry and I'm always looking out for you. See you next week.