 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who one of my latest guests will be And don't forget to click the subscribe button And the notifications button So you're notified for when your next podcast is live I had a bit of a messed up life, to be honest I was brought up in care My mum was an alcoholic I don't know who my dad was … I was brought up by Mr Depdad. That had a bit of a shit time getting battered… …locked in my room all the time. Yn my 那 bay to eat dog meat sandwiches locked in my bed room. Just shit on my bed room floor and all this sort of stuff… … shot with a little pellet gun all the time. I was walking across this bit of grass. W wrote past his car and the next thing… dyma ties o gwnaeth ac yn y presod y cwyr yma Ac rwy'n dod i'n gweithio Rwy'n diwethaf yn aeth Rwy'n gweithio at y gallwch chi Cymru wedi gŵn eu gwneud Rydw i'n gweithio i'n gweithio ac yma'n gweithio i fod Eon Hunt rhywbeth fe oedd ffyrdd yna wnaeth ddal i'r chywog gyda gweithio yn eich bod o gyllwyn ac yma'n gweithio o'r llaw ddig yn y mae'n gweithio ac rydw i'n gwneud ddim I llaibellau'xhept while I've been visiting him. I've met Robert Maudsley, you know, I've seen fucking Roy White and Peter Sutcliff and all these. It's just, it's a completely different world, it's a different world. It's a world that we're just not used to. In Wakefield in the cage, there's a cell with a cage and you open the door and as you open the door, it's literally a cage door. Like an animal? Yeah and they literally open the door and fucking lob his thing under like a letter box at the bottom of the door and just slide it in and shut the door. Bwm, we're on! And today's guest, we've got George Bambi. How are you, George? I'm all right, Jamesy. Thanks for having us on, mate. Yeah, thanks for coming on. You've got a fascinating story. Worked in a paparazzi, a lot of, uncovered a lot of tales, but recently you've just discovered that the most punished prison in the UK, Charlie Bronson, is your father. Yeah, that's right. Found out that three or four years ago. And yeah, we've sort of formed a relationship, got to know each other and I visit him quite regularly. And we speak each other on the phone every day and sorted him out a brand new legal team. Got rid of all the dickheads that were surrounding him and making him look a complete idiot in the media and all the rest of it. And yeah, things are moving forward and looking very positive for his release. For the first time in many years. Yeah, 46 years has been inside. There was a specialist legal team that got Harry Roberts. Do you remember Harry Roberts? He was the one that killed three police officers, killed three coppers in the 60s. He was told he would never ever see the light of day, never get out of prison, which is understandable killing three coppers. And this certain legal team got him out. And I've been trawling the UK for the last few years and managed to get old of this top legal guy. And literally got on my hands and knees in his offices and begged him to take Charlie on. And it kept turning it down, turning it down. And then I just said, listen, I'm not fucking leaving you alone until you take him on. And that's it. And then in the end they did. And now the progress has been made legally has been amazing. I mean, we've done more in the last 18 months than has been done in the last 40 odd years. And I don't know whether people know about this, but the parole system. Basically, if someone's getting a parole, they send three people into the prison. They sit there on a little board, they walk you in, give you a cup of water and sit there and go, have you been a good boy? Read all these bullshit reports and all this bollocks. Get people coming in talking about them and all the rest of it. They go out. This is in the prison. And then the three people go in the back, have a cup of tea and a biscuit and go, shall we let him out or not? Stamp a thing, come back. And Charlie keeps getting denied his parole. And one of the reasons we believe this has been happening is because he's battered that many screws over the years. Obviously, people are interconnected. And, you know, he might have battered someone 20 years ago that was now working in the Ministry of Justice that's worked some way up the chain and all the rest of it. And these things coming from above that are always putting the kaibosh on on any progression that he's done. So what we've done, we've set a legal precedent and we did this judicial review and a legal challenge to try and get Charlie's next parole hearing heard in a public court. Cos our argument was if a group of 12 people and a jury are good enough to send these to prison for 20 years, then surely a group of 12 people and a judge are good enough to decide whether they should be let out again. And also, being in a public forum in a courtroom, it keeps everything really transparent and everyone can see what's going on, all the reports are all done properly, there's witnesses, there's members of the press there. You know, people can talk about every single aspect of his behaviour and what he's been doing. And hopefully, he'll have more chance of getting out. How many times has he been knocked back for parole? Oh, every time. Never, ever been paroled. Every two years, it's like, right, fuck off, back to your bedroom for two years, you're not coming out. How's his mental health just now? Well, this is one thing that I've been working through with him for the last few years. We talk about lots of different things to do with his mental health and we believe that, I mean, he's been in Broadmoor, you know, it was sectioned. He was told that he was insane, which is a load of bollocks. He's not insane at all, he's one of the cleverest blokes you'll ever meet. And his mental health, what happens is, 20 years ago, if you're in a prison cell and you're locked in, and you're locked in for like three months and you don't see anyone, they're putting your food under a hole in the gate, do you know what I mean? You don't have any interaction with anyone. What was happening was, they were coming in and just for him to kick the shit out of a couple of guards was an excuse for him to get a bit of attention and get a bit of something to do, do you know what I mean? Can you imagine the boredom? So he'd come out, he'd have a rumble with 12 guards, you know, have a proper scribe, get back in the cell and be like, yes, brilliant, I've had something exciting in my life. But then what had happened is, then guards would go out and in them days, they'd have a bar down the end of the road like the prison offers his mess. So they'd go and get pissed at dinner time, have a few jars or whatever, come back to the landing and think, oh fuck it, let's go and give Charlie a good idea. And they'd open his door and steam in with bats and all sorts and batter the shit out of him. And they were doing that all the time. And that's what made him so violent and so hard because all he was doing was just fighting back all the time. I mean, if you're there and 12 people come in and kick the shit out of you every other day for the next three months, after a bit, it's going to become second nature to you, innit? So they actually created their own monster, if you like. So you become very anti for it? Yeah, of course you did. Every time that cell door opened, it just was right, it's them, me against them and it'd be in. Well, touch on a lot of stories because I know you speak to your dad three times a day sometimes and you've become very close with him. You're fighting to get them out. But I always go back to the start of my guest to get a better understanding of you George and what you've been through in your life and tell me what it all started for you. Well, I had a bit of a bit of a messed up life to be honest. I was brought up in care. My mum was an alcoholic. I didn't know what my dad was and I was brought up by my stepdad and yeah, I had a bit of a shit time getting battered all the time, locked in my room all the time, made to eat dogmeat sandwiches, locked in my bedroom to shit on the bedroom floor and all this sort of stuff, shot with a little pellet gun all the time. And they did a film about me actually called Stepdad, which you can watch like Ricky Tomlinson's and it's quite a few famous people in it. And I was one of the first people in the UK to prosecute my own mum and stepdad. So, yeah. So I grew up in care, wanted to care when I was about six the first time. And you know, just grew up with a load of kids and all that, a bit of a laugh. How was your schooling and stuff? Did you go to school George or was it care all the time? Well, I was in care all the time. I did quite well. I went to 13 different schools before I was 11. So I was quite disrupted all the time. But the thing is, when I was locked in my bedroom all the time as a kid, I had fuck what I do, didn't have any toys, didn't have anything like that. When it was Christmas, any presents I got, my mum used to sell them, you know what I mean? So when I was at school, I used to nick loads of books from school, maths books and English books and all this science books. And I take them home and when I got locked in my bedroom, I'd read all these books all the time. So I did really well. I passed my maths over when I was 11 years old, which I was really pleased about. And I remember Mr Roberts, the maths teacher, come round and knocked on the door. I mean, my mum answered the door and he said, hello, I'm Mr Roberts from the school, blah, blah, blah. I wanted to come round and have a chat with you about George taking his 11 plus. And this was the first year of secondary school. Said we think he's got a good chance of passing it. He said do what the fuck you want. I'm not fucking bothered slam the door. That was it. So I didn't really know what was going on. So I went back to school anyway. I was in this hall during this exam and I was 11 and all the other kids were like 16 and they're all like, what's he doing here? And so I did this exam and that was it. I didn't think anything of it. It was all done or whatever. And then we had assembly a few months later and they were, you remember at school you have the first years and the second years, third years, fourth, fifth years old in a layer or whatever and they were giving all these results out. So the fifth year students who are like right and then they'd all come fall onto the stage, shake hands with their master's and all this bollocks. And then they went and we've got us, we've got somebody that's that we want to bring up on the stage that's not in year five. He's actually in year one and he's passed his math soul level and they called me name out and I was like, fuck, you know. And I went up on the stage and I got my math soul level when I was 11. It's the only exam I ever took. It's the only exam I've ever had. So you're quite well educated when you put your mind to it? Yeah, sort of forced into it and enjoyed it, was really enjoyed when I had really. How was in your teenage years coming from about a ton more than when you're past? I had a bit of a nightmare when I was 12 because I got blown up on one of them electric pylons. And I was out with my cousin David and we were messing about and we thought it would be a good idea to climb up on this electric pylon. So we did. And I got all these like 68% burns on my body. And yes, climbed up this pylon and it threw me off it and I ended up in hospital for two years in a place called Boothall Children's Hospital. And I've had over 180 operations because when you get burned as you grow your skin doesn't grow so you have to keep releasing it, releasing it, releasing it and all this. So, but that was really hard because I never had any visitors. I literally didn't have any family coming to see me. I mean, my auntie Doc came to see me once which was really nice of her but I didn't want her to come and see me again because I didn't want people to be upset seeing me in the state that I was in and that I was up to my eyes in morphine and all this and I was just enjoying the buzz really. I was just fucking lying there off me tits all the time. And every time I wanted some more drugs I'd just press his button and this nurse turned up and injected this thing into my drip and I was like floating off again. It was... That's sad, George. A 12-year-old kid in hospital. Yeah, it was sad. It was but to be honest I was quite happy to be on my own because my mum was there in the first stages. She was there for the first couple of months and there was a place called Marathon House where parents could stay. So basically, because her and my stepdad were like, you know, elkies and fucking pissed and fighting all the time or whatever. She didn't come to see me. She came and stayed in this Marathon House place and she used to go out and get pissed at the pub with the other mums every night. I'm like, oh, my poor son, George, we're all buying a fucking drink and all this like, you know what I mean? So in the end, the doctors come in one day and they just said, how do you feel about your mum being there? And I said, I fucking hate you. I don't want to hear it. Tell her to fuck off. And then the doctors made a move out of the hospital. I think she's just using it more of a convenience thing, you know what I mean? When did you go to the hospital? What age? Were you 14, 15? Yeah, yeah. I went in on June 14th, 1984. And, yeah, I finished all, I finished all my main treatment a couple of years after. So, you know, I've been for like six months and then I'd be out for a couple of weeks and I'd be back in for another four months and out for a couple of weeks. But I mean, when it first started generally, yeah, it was a couple of years just intensive all the time. Do you still get treatment for it or anything? Do you still get after the chair cups? Yeah, still get, still get, still have to have releases done and all that. I mean, now I'm getting a bit of a fat bastard. I think my skin is stretching a bit more after a couple of bit more. But, yeah, it gets all sort of tighter and all that sort of stuff. So, I'd have all them released and what have I. So, you nearly died then at 12? Yeah, I was in a pad. Wait, 250,000 volts. Fucking hell, have you ever touched a plug? Have you ever touched a plug? I get a shock when I open a Cardona shape myself. Yeah, well, I tell you what, I'll never forget that feeling. It was like... Was a hair not a stick not? Were you smoking? Yeah, I was smoking like fuck, I was smoldering when I went into the hospital. I was still smoldering. That's scary. Cos what happens is that where my burns are is where my clothes were. So the electric's that powerful. It travels up your body and sets your clothes on fire. So, but I remember when it happened clearly this day. Because in David, he was on the bottom of this train, I was on the top of this train, grabbed hold of this thing and then it was literally all I remember, it was like being on a spaceship and someone's opened the door and going, right fuck off and booted me out and I'm just flying through space like, hold on, where the fuck am I at all? And that's what it was like, it was mad. And then I woke up and I was on the ground and sort of like a starfish and all the grass around me was on fire and our David was looking over going, fucking hell, drop me some piss on you. And I went, piss on me if you fucking piss on me, I'm pulling you fucking cock off, don't piss on me. And then it just went all a bit tits up from there. I was awake for three days when I went into intensive care. Is that what electricity going through your body? Yeah, it's just the shock. When your body goes into shock, shock's a very funny thing. Especially with the burn marks, but fair play man for kicking on and it's never really held you back because you're known as the paparazzi guy, you've seen a lot of your videos and stuff. The UK's number one paparazzi. Yeah, UK's number one on the UK's number one podcast bro. But how did you get into the photography side of things? Is that always a dream or a passion? I don't know, I've always been interested in being successful. As a result of my childhood, I've always wanted to be really successful. I've always wanted to have loads of money, have loads of businesses and do really well and bring, you know, I've kids myself and bring them up and give them the lifestyle that I never had. You know, never hit me children or anything like whatever. So I've just always been looking for things that, you know, I've tried to set loads of businesses up the fucking car valet in building barbecues all this shit when I was 16 and now nothing ever worked. And then I saw this TV programme once about the paparazzi and I saw these all, these blokes running around with big cameras and all that, only 10 grand, 15 grand. I thought, fucking hell, that's a good job. And there was a big fat bloke from Australia with a Moeican in London called Darren Lyons an Australian bloke. You must have known him because he was batting Kerry all the time. He had a big fat bloke with a Moeican. He was on Big Brother with his son in... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a right wanker. So I phoned up. He had a big company, Big Pictures. So I phoned up and I said, I want to work as a paparazzi and they're like, oh, yeah, thanks for ringing by and just put the phone down. So I thought, fucking, this TV show's been on. No one's, you know, everyone's probably ringing up. So I thought, oh, fuck it. So I just jumped on the train to London. So I went to London and I got over to their offices and I went to their offices and I just waited outside. And I waited for this Darren Lyons to come in and he walked in. And as he walked in, I held the door open behind him. So he walked in, so I walked in behind him. Walked in, he got in the lift. So I got in the lift with him and he goes, all right, mate, how are you doing? I went, yeah, I'm all right, how are you doing? All right. And he says, yeah, yeah, he said, oh, you can't see. I said, I've come to see you. And he went, have you got an appointment? I went, no. I said, what have you come to see me for? I said, I want to be a paparazzi. He said, oh, mate, you need to send me CV and all send you fucking details and all fucking things. I said, listen, I've just got on a train all the way from Manchester. I've come to see you and I'm going to fucking see you whether you like it or not. And he says, so what's so special about you then? So I said, I'm Wayne Rooney's best mate. And he went, right fucking, two coffins in there. And that was it. And then we went in the office. So you just cleaned the blagge on the end? Yeah. So he went in and I said, it's an, how do you know Wayne? And I said, oh, I live near me. I said, yeah, fucking talked to him all the time and all this and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I got loads of pictures. I know where he is and all this, blah, whatever. And then, and then about 20 minutes later, I walked out with a fucking four grand camera and 22 grand a year salary. And I got back on the train. I got back on the train. I didn't even know how to use the fucking camera and I'd never met Wayne Rooney. You don't have the, is it Mooney, Rooney, Mooney? You had the Rooney money. That's one of your most famous. Is that when you had your ass out walking by Colleen Rooney? Yeah. How did that come about? I'll just whip me pants down. How has it? But basically, when you're doing these pictures, what you've got to do is you've got to come up with something that no one's got, get something outside the box. So every night it was at the World Cup in Germany, I think it was Germany. And we were all over in Germany and all the paparazzi, they were all doing the players at their hotel. And this was in the early days when the money was mega, it was mega dope. So I thought to myself, what the fuck? Why am I here with all the footballers? I'm going to go to the hotel where all the wives are and see what all them are up to. Because they're the ones that sell in the magazines. I mean, all right, the footballers sell in the papers, but the women sell in the magazines and the magazines used to pay loads of money. So I went down to the hotel, booked into the same hotel as them and got chatting to a few people and finding out when they were going to the night clubs and all this, that and the other. So I followed them, just take all the pictures, send them all in, made loads and loads of dough. And then one night there was another photographer turned up from another agency. And I thought, all right, there's two of us here now. So we're not going to get any exclusive stuff. So I said, listen, we need to work together and keep everything exclusive. We can still sell it for a fortune. And we just come up with some ideas. So there was one that we come up with and this young lad was outside the hotel and the players used to come back to this hotel to see the messages every three or four days. You're allowed in for an hour. So one of these lads outside, it just loved Rio Ferdinand. So I was trying to think of something to do with Rio Ferdinand. So I said to the kids dad, I said, listen, I'll sort it out. I'll get Rio to do an autograph for him and all this blah, blah, blah. I said, but you'll suddenly to do something for me. And it was this joke shop down the road and they sold these artificial shits, right? So it's a big long shite. So I went into this little factory down the road and got them to drill a hole in it and stuck a pen up inside this shite. So I've got this little kid and he's got his pad or whatever. So I said, right, it'll be dead funny. Rio will laugh his head off. You'll love this, but I'll definitely get you an autograph and a photo. So I give this kid this artificial shite and his pad and he's outside the hotel. And when the team bus turned up, taking a few pictures, Rio got off and he's walked off and said, Rio, Rio said, he's a young lad down there. He said he's only six. I said, he's been waiting for fucking four hours for your autograph. Just signed his autograph for him. And Rio goes, yeah, yeah, all right. So he walks over. So I said to this lad, just give him the pad and give him that. So you give him the pad, give him this thing and he signed his autograph and then Rio looked at this thing and he's like, fuck's that. Give it him back, walked in. So I snapped the picture, sent it into Fleet Street and I captioned it, Rio turdinand. And that was the end. What's the message you've made for her? Like what's the message you can make for exclusive photos? Well, it depends. I mean, some pictures, I mean, not so much now because it's all gone online. The papers have like lost all the circulation and all the rest of it. But some pictures in the older days, you get 30 grand. I don't believe it. You could go back to the early late 90s. You could get 7, 8 grand for Charlotte Church going to Tesco with Gavin Anson doing a bit of shopping. Is that why some photographers are ruthless because the money can be made on it? In them days they were, yeah. I mean, you'd have people hiding in wheelie bins, hiding in people's gardens, hiding in the fucking sheds. Chasing them down the road. Because I know you went to try and get Prince Harry and Prince William and the royal family people put your navan and put a gun to your head. It was, it was at my, well, I assume it was at my five. They don't really introduce themselves, you know what I mean. I was, that was in Tepbury in Gloucestershire. And yeah, basically I've turned up and they were playing polo. So I've got this gas fan. And the gas fans are cut an hole out the side of it. Literally with a grinder. So you cut an hole in the side of the van. So I could go inside the van and shoot pictures outside it. And so I've turned up and I've got a sign on the side. Can you smell gas? Ring 0800 555 1 because that's like a normal gas company, you know what I mean. So I've turned up and there's no way of getting in. So I've just drove in, drove up to the counter, drove up to the main entrance and they said, have you got a pass? And I went, no. And they went, well, you can't come in. I said, all right then. Well, if you don't want any fucking gas bottles for the roast dog, it's up to you. Fuck it. See you later. So I've gone to reverse. And the guy's gone, hold on a minute, hold on a minute. What, what are you doing? I said, I'm bringing a couple of gas bottles for the hog tent or whatever. And they went, all right, okay. Yeah, yeah, hold on. Right. There's a guy coming through with some gas bottles for the tent. So they waved me through. So they waved me through. So I drove up this place everywhere. I mean, you know, Prince Harry and Prince William and all that are there. So, you know, it's proper fucking guns and shit. You know what I mean? So I drove up to this tent, got out and just went up to the bloke of the tent. Like, all right, mate, how's it going? You all right? What time is the ogro starting just talking shit to him? So they could see me talking to him and then got back in the van or whatever. And then I drove round the back and as I drove round the back, I saw a bit of grass and fought the plane over there. I'll pull up here. So I pulled up on the grass facing where the pitch was. So I'm in the back of the van. And I've moved my little sign from the outside. I've got my camera ready to do them and all this. And nothing's happening. Anyway, I fell asleep in the back of the van. And then about however long later, there's a bang on the back of the van. And they're going, right, x-ray, five, six, four, TFP or whatever on the radio. And I'm like, that's my regiment. What's going on here is checking me van out. And so it's obviously special, but it's checking me van out. So I've opened the back of the van. As I've opened the back of the van, there's about fucking, there's about 30 ponies all round me van. And when I parked up, that's where they were bringing all the ponies for the polo match. And they were like, what are you doing here? I went, oh, I'm really sorry. I parked in the wrong place. I've been driving for hours. I was just having to keep in the back of the van. I'm really sorry. And they're like, right, okay, you need to go buck up. You know, you just go out to the bank. So I went up, went to the bank car park and they were trying to see me out. So as you see me out, I blagged it staying in. So I basically stayed in there. And when Ari and William come out, I was like mixed in with the crowd and everything. And I was just taking loads of pictures. And I had got near the tent inside the tent where they were. And I got some really good picture of Ari making a cup of coffee and all this sort of shit. And that was it. And then I was walking across this bit of grass, walked past this car. And the next thing, fucking bag goes over me head and I'm dragged into the back of this van. And I've got in there and I'm like, there's a fucking guy there with a gun, right? Police officers, couple of police officers. There's a couple of guys in plain clothes. And one of them goes, hello, Mr Bambi. And I was like, hello, what did you say? Do you know what I mean? And he went, we just thought we'd bring you into our little van just to let you know that we want you to go back into your shitty little van and get on the M5 and head south and you're going to have a police escort to the next junction. And if you come anywhere near Tebri in the next 48 hours, your life's not going to be worth living. Do you understand? And I was like, yeah. And then they took me out of the van and I walked down towards me van and literally they must have been about 10 or 12 guys all plain clothes, not walking next to me but sort of circling me as I was walking to make sure I got back in the van. And then I got back in the van, drove off and as I drove off and there's a car in front of me, a car behind me and all this. And I got onto the M5 and started heading south. And then I got a couple of junctions down. A couple of junctions down these two big black unmarked cars went past me. And as I went past the next junction, they drove past and just went like that out the window. And I just carried on driving and went out. Did they take your camera off you? No, the phone or anything? No, they didn't. But when I got home about half an hour after being at home, I sat there with the missus and there was a knock on the door. I've opened the door and there was two coppers at the door and I went, are you all right? And they said, can we come in? And I said, yeah. And they said, oh, we don't want to alarm you, but there's 12 of us and they all came in the house and the missus is on the couch. I'm like, what the fuck's going on? They came in, they took all my cameras, all my laptops, iPads, computers, memory cards, the whole fucking lot. And they said to the missus, we can't tell you why we're arrested him. We can't tell you why we're arrested him. Blah, blah, blah. The anti-terrorism act and all this sort of shit. They start quoting them. They took me down to the police station. It was like eight o'clock at night and locked me up in a cell and about four o'clock in the morning they came in with a pasty and a coffee and said, we're back in 10 minutes. 10 minutes later they came back and said, oh, it's all been a big misunderstanding. We shouldn't have arrested you. We're really sorry. We're going to drop you back home now. We're not going to be taking any charges against you. I'm going to bring all your stuff home. And I went back home and they wiped all my camera cards, all my pictures of William and Harry and deleted the whole fucking lot. Was that just to make sure that you weren't a terrorist? I gathered information to maybe. Well, possibly, but it was also, they might have been probably scared. Maybe I got some pictures that I shouldn't have had or something or whatever. But I mean, you're dealing with the establishment. Do you know what I mean? It's like, this is one thing that I've always, it's always made me like, think about things a bit different. I used to go down to do David Cameron when he was on holiday in Cornwall. And I remember the first time I got some pictures of David Cameron and literally he's got like loads of armed guards with him. They've all got guns and all in like bulletproof motors and all the rest of it. And I got on the beach when he's in the water and fired him right in front of everyone else. He didn't see I had a camera. We had Edwin under me towel. I got a load of pictures of him and the next day they were in all the papers and there was that one. Do you remember Ken Bigley when he'd been decapitated? It's a front page picture. It's like Ken Bigley's been decapitated where the Fox David Cameron on holiday surfing. So they were in the front page. But then the next day, when the paper come out, I got like about, I'm not joking about 600 friend requests off all these people with all this Asian writing and stuff. You know, Muslim, people from Muslim backgrounds with all this writing. I want to be your friend and you know, I like shit myself because obviously he's on the number one list for Cameron, isn't he? The ISIS because all that shit was going on at the minute. So I had to go down to the police station and say, look, I've had all these friend requests and they sent someone down and they took all the requests and everything off my phone and all the information for like intel gathering or whatever. And that was it. But I could have fucking put a bullet in his head. Yeah, you could have been anybody. And I just show you how weak the intelligence can be then for some of these guards and stuff if you're sneaking in just with a gaspan. Yeah, I reckon the security for David Cameron and people like that was so bad. I could have taken him out 10 times. There was times when I was parked in the car park where he goes for a swim in the back of me van with a camera through a hole cutting the side of me van that I've shot loads of pictures of him. If I'd have had a gun and I was a sniper, I could have taken him out. Yeah, what about? So if you get a good photo seal at Prince Harry, Prince William, how does it go about? Do you auction it to the highest bidder? Well, it depends what you've got. If you've got a really good set of pictures, I mean, I know if I've got a really good set of pictures and because I've been doing it for so long and I worked for myself, I have a good relationship with most of the editors that deal with all the pictures and stuff. So I contact the editors direct and say, right, you know, I've got my guys at the sun. I just go, right, I've got this. I know they want it. I'm like, how much are you going to give me? And we agree a price. And if the price isn't good enough, I'll just say if you don't fucking pay me what I want, I'm going somewhere else and they go, right, we'll pay you what you want then. If it's something that they really want, and that's it. But sometimes you shoot a really good set of pictures and think, I want to get five, 10 grand for these. And then they send them in and the paper's like, yeah, we're not interested. And you're like, what? So then you go to the next paper, then the next paper. And then other times you shoot a set of pictures and you think, oh, fucking waste of time, they are. You'll send them in and they start a biddy more for them. Just you never know what's going on in there. Reds at the moment or what stories they're doing all. Yeah, what's popular. How do you, what's the biggest story you've went undercover to get photos of anyone? Um, that's a good question. I've, I'm very proud of this fact. I know a lot of people will think this is a load of bollocks. You know, you get all these pedophile owners and all this, and everyone says, oh, they shouldn't be getting involved. They shouldn't be doing this and blah, blah. Well, it's nothing to do with that, but it's quite similar. I've, I've been the only photographer that's managed to get certain people. Do you remember Shannon Matthews? No. The young girl that was kidnapped by her mum. Her mum was called Karen Matthews and the heads were under the bed. Not sure. Fucking have you, have you got a TV yet? You must have heard of Karen Matthews. I only watch my own stuff. I bet you do on all. So Karen Matthews lived in Dewsbury and she had a little daughter called Shannon. And basically they made out that the daughter had gone missing. And there was this massive nationwide hunt for her and everyone was looking for her. And it turned out like two months later that she was being held captive by her brother-in-law and they were going to keep the ransom money. So she was like the UK's most hated. I do remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember that, yeah. Yeah, she was like the UK's most hated figure. So she went to prison. When she came out of prison, she did like eight years or whatever. And when she came out of prison, all the pictures, all the papers weren't the very first pictures of her coming out. But the thing is when they come out of prison, they take them to a safe house. And to find someone in a safe house is nigh on impossible. I mean, you've got to know what you do. You've got to know people. So when she came out, I was the first one to find her and get the pictures. And then on top of that, there was another woman called Vanessa George who was the female pedophile that had abused all these kids at a nursery in Plymouth. She was like public enemy number one and she got that after seven years. And I found her and got all the pictures of her. And a couple of weeks ago, I don't know if you saw it in the sun. It was last week, I think. You know, this May Read Philpot. And her husband, Mick Philpot, they set fire to the house and killed the six kids. She got released out of prison and they've been after her for two months and they couldn't get any pictures of her. And I turned up and smashed her within three days and had a full page of her in the sun. So that's... I don't do it for money anymore. I'm quite well established in my life. I've got businesses. I've got, you know, my life's all uncured already. I don't need to do this business anymore. So I sort of pick and choose the jobs that I want to do now. Do you get a throw from that, George? Yeah, it's like fishing. Do you ever fear for your life? Oh, fuck me, yeah. Honestly, if you're getting guns put to your head. Yeah, I've feared for my life a few times. I mean, see the problem is you know yourself. You've met loads of celebrities. I've met loads of celebrities. And what happens is like, you know, someone like Gaza or someone like that. You know, a lot of these celebrities are really nice people, but the danger is the people around them. Cos what happens is people want to be their friend. They want to be seen to be looking after them and protecting them and da da da da da. So, you know, if you do something wrong with a certain celebrity, they're mates of like, I'm going to fuck it on you, Dan. I'm going to kidnap your fucking kids. I'm going to rape your wife. I'm going to fucking shoot you. I'm going to do it. And you're just like, fuck you now. You get it all the time. He's just got a great morning. What is that the kind of threats you've had? Oh, all the time. When I did my TV show, I've got a TV show with Channel 4 confessing to the paparazzi. And I was the only paparazzi that they wanted on it. I was the number one paparazzi in the UK. I had nearly 400 front pages. And I liked to think of a bit of a character or whatever. So they got in touch and said, what do a TV show we are? And I was like, I'm not really bothered to be honest. And then they phoned me back and I was like, how much? Fuck it, right? Let's do it. You know what I mean? So yes, we did that. And it came out. We did like did a main one on the channel that was like a main one on our program and then we did like seven other episodes. And it's really weird when you when you're on primetime TV with your own show because you watch it on the telly and then you finish and you go to bed and then you wake up in the morning and you're like, fucking hell. You've got like 600 messages and you've got like 2,000 friend requests and you've got messages off this message. Everything from fuck me you're a legend to I'm going to fucking I'm going to rape your wife and all this and it's just like trying to get your head round it all and you're like, what's going on? Do you know what I mean? How do you feel where you show another foot that paparazzi ever try and get you once you started getting into the link? Yeah, I had a couple of photographers turned up at the house taking photos How did you feel? I just came out yeah, I said I went here I fucking take a few photos I mean, what do you want me to do? Because you can understand I just try and make a crust went in the shop bought a paper took a few pictures fucked off went back home that was it happy days because I had gas on and I thought he's a legend I'll tell you something about Gaza there's only two rules that I've got right? Gaza's a hero of mine Yeah, same there's only two rules I've ever had and they were never ever take a picture of someone with the kids which I've never done I never ever take a picture of someone that's ill and that's why I've never done Gaza the son and all the other papers you know they've all said go and get Gaza and I'm like I won't fucking touch you because the press killed people because I had gas on last week and that's what he says that they used to leave bottles of whiskey outside his house and he used to put it in a bin he used to say oh he's backing a drink and stuff that can be sad because the press I believe can kill people if you're struggling with mental health it can push you over the edge Do you know what I mean? I mean, I did something really bad with Richard and Judy once one of the magazines was saying Judy was an alcoholic and it literally wasn't so I got one of my mates to give her a bottle of red wine at one of the book sign and took a picture of her and all this and it was on all the front pages Judy's got a drink problem out of control and all this but it's differently with Gaza because Gaza is an alcoholic and he has got a problem and he's been working really hard to sort all his shit out or whatever but I actually know people that were putting bottles of vodka outside his front door and ringing the bell and waiting for him to come out and pick it up and you know hopefully go in and drink the bottle and come out absolutely plastered to get another bottle and they could get loads of I mean, that is just shit to me Yeah, did you ever target their best friends, family members? because you see family members selling stories all the time did you know who was weak around high class celebrities to target them because money talks Yeah, it does money does talk and I've got a lot of friends so the difference is I'm a photojournalist and reporters are print journalists so what happens is photos, we do whatever photos we do right? a lot of these people they think they've got loads of close friends around them most of them haven't got anybody they can trust you know, we have friends, sisters, brothers and his uncles one celebrity an A-lister a fucking mum used to ring me to tell me what she was doing that's how bad it is they can't trust anybody but the reporters they're the sort of ones that go round looking in the bins looking at the letters that they've put in the bin and speaking to the sisters and the brothers and this and digging in and getting copies of bank accounts and that's all different worlds of mine so now we've gone to your dad Charlie Bronson Britain's most punished prisoner 46 years he's been in prison I think he's been free just over 100 days is this where the relationship started when your dad seen you on the TV? how did that come about George? he was watching this programme on channel 4 Confessions with a paparazzi and he saw my name George Bambi and at the time I was like 46 and he was like George Bambi pretty unusual name, innit? and who I thought was my real dad who was on my birth certificate his name was George Bambi and I went to see Paula got in touch with me Paula Salvador and my old man married and said Charles Bronson wants to see you in prison so I was like Charles Bronson wants to see me in prison did you think you'd done something wrong? I didn't know what my ass was talking about I was like fuck you know what does he want? and so that was it so I was sort of a mixture of excitement a bit puzzled blah blah blah so he says he wanted me to come and see him it took like 6-8 months to get on the approved list to be able to visit him cos he's such a high category his class is in the top 8 most dangerous prisons in the country well he is the most dangerous prison in the country so you go through this 6-8 month rigmarole of getting in and the prison service got in touch with me and I filled the forms in and all that and I was approved in 48 hours and I was like okay that's a bit weird so I went to see him and I went to see me Paula the first time and I walked in and he was just like where was it? it was at Wakefield in the cage he was in in Wakefield a few years ago and I walked in and they took me through all these metal detectors all these machines fucking irat in their scans fingerprints scans through all these doors you know they did everything apart from crawl up my arse to see what I had on me I mean literally it is like Heathrow Airport times a hundred you know what I mean which you can understand so anyway I was shitting myself I had to walk all through the prison all past all the wings and all that outside all the exercise yards and in Wakefield it's a prison inside the prison on the other side of the prison and it's a special unit the CSE unit the Close Supervision Centre so I went in and they've opened this fucking massive gate and I'm like shitting myself I can hear these I can hear Charlie going what the fuck is going on? fucking five past fucking two and he's not here what the fuck I'm gonna fucking knock someone out in a minute he's given it all this I was like fuck you know so as I walk through this gate there's an exercise yard on the left and I looked over and there's this massive bloke about seven foot honestly it was massive beard and all that like looked really empty in his eyes anyway they took me down this thing and then turned left and there's a cage there and we went into this room and there's all these bars and shit and and Charlie was in there and he was stood upside down doing a headstand singing please release me he let me go and I was like so I've walked in I thought fucking oh this is a bit bizarre so we walked in and he's finished off doing his song and when he's finished he's just done a backflip jumped up and gone hello Georgie is that nice to meet you? put his hands through the bars and shut me hands and I thought fucking oh do I grab his hand what happens if he pulls me in what do I do because you talk about it you know what I mean yeah well it is that's what it's like that's what it's like so when we went in the door shut behind me and as the door shut behind me there's a massive big round bulletproof glass thing on the door so he's pulled me into a talking away and and then it's just just got chatting and all this and he says and he told me your dad was a very good friend of mine and I was like how do you know me dad? and he went George Bambi and on my birth certificate says George Bambi and his occupation was turf accountant he ran a bookmakers and basically cut a long story short what happened was with the visits he said to me that when me dad was running this bookmakers office he owed a load of gangsters some money and he was in the shit so because he owed him this money him and Charlie the arrangements for Charlie to go in and rob the post office rob the bookies so Charlie went in with a fucking shooter and said right give me all your money got away with like three or four grand and then him and George Bambi shared the money right who I thought was my real dad George Bambi disappeared over to Spain with his money and left me mum wasn't with her anymore then what happened was just after that Charlie obviously had a bit of a thing going with me mum it matter at some club in Ellesmere Port she got pregnant and and then obviously few months after whatever happened happened George Bambi came back from Spain come back from Spain and me mum was pregnant and she's like we're having a baby and at the time Charlie was in loads of trouble he was always fucking in trouble with the police during robberies and all this shit so she thought she'd have a better life with George Bambi so she told him that I was his son who was pregnant and that was it and then he moved back in with her they were together for about six and seven months and then Charlie ended up getting sent to prison for seven years and George Bambi ended up fucking off and she was on her own anyway So how was that experience then coming from basically when you're 12 years old growing up yourself not really knowing who your real dad was to then having the life that you've had as a photographer your own TV show for then Charlie Bronson to send a message out and say he's your dad what the fuck were you thinking? I don't know it was all a bit fucking mad to be honest but I mean I brought I've been brought up all my life looking after myself and being in kid zones and all the rest of it I've never really had any parents never really bothered about them never been asked and and that was it and then when I started meeting up with my dad you know we started talking and then you know he started sending he started sending me photographs of like my mum and me and Ian you know and friends and telling me stories and saying Lord you remember this scar on the back of your mum's hand you know she had a scar on the back of her hand there and apparently she was in a pub one night and she was pissed and she wanted someone to drink and she had a bet with someone she couldn't put a cigar out on the back of her hand for a fiver and she wanted some money for beer so they bet her so she put this cigar out on the back of her hand and she got a big scar on the back of her hand no one would have ever known about that there's loads of other different things that he told me that he didn't know about that I didn't know about that I've since checked with other family members that have confirmed what was going on so yes and that was it and then we there was loads of shit I've had loads of I've had loads of fucking trolls on the internet and loads of people saying he's not your dad you're full of shit you're fucking into PR you do stuff with the papers it's all a load of bullshit it's a marketing exercise it's a PR scam and all this shit it's not I'm not going around telling everyone me dad's fucking Charles Bronson hey, speaking of the devil he's ringing ha ha ha ha shall I answer it? yeah I'm going to give him a bell like have a chat hello I'm alright dad how you doing? alright yeah I'm just I'm just sitting down I've got a chat with with a mate James James James are you alright? yeah he's alright yeah he's a nice lad he knows he's had a few chats with Paul Ferris and Dave Courtney and all that like who else? right right Vic Dark hey do you know Vic Dark? how was ya? oh yeah we were just we were just talking Nan about how we how I found out I was your son yeah well just saying to James I don't really listen to any of this shit off anyone we've had our DNA test done through the prison service we know the cracks so I'm not I don't listen to that shit as you know you weren't the only one yeah yeah now yeah we're just having a little chat about it that's all yeah I know I was just telling him about all that legal stuff we've got this this appeal we've just won the court case I know I've got all my speech that I've done all my speech with the lawyers and that's a saying court for you to stand up and tell him about all the good stuff you do hey did you um I've not I've not told James yet do you um you realise that that record that we brought out you're number one in Cyprus number three in Sweden and number 29 in the British charts did you see that on the paper on Sunday? fucking yeah oh everyone could see that yeah that would be good wouldn't it so Maz is here we've we've come up to we've come up to Glasgow to see Rodney oh it's horrible isn't it and fucking crying my eyes out all day yesterday so yeah so James you rang up while I was in Glasgow to come and have a chat with him so it worked out worked out alright actually how'd you go on with the doctor did you go and see the doctor you don't like anyone fuck you yeah bet you would yeah oh my god tell you what yeah Jimmy's a good lad Jimmy's bent to see Ronnie and Reggie any yeah oh I tell you who messaged me the other day Maureen Flanagan oh she's been having people messaging her saying you don't know the craze and all this and giving her loads of grief and she said about when he was on the roof at Broadmoor she she walked past you with Ronnie and Reggie's mum didn't she in Charlie oh that was the first right so you took the roof off in 1981 1983 and 84 wasn't it I know well think of all the jobs think of all the jobs you've created exactly so what do you reckon now about getting out do you reckon we've got a good chance now we've got this public parole hearing yeah well this legal team we've got a brilliant aren't they yeah well what a team aren't we so what what are you lost yourself I've told yeah I've told you that yeah well look out look how far you've come the last three years I mean you just a complete change man like I was saying to James you know we've been teaching you all about remorse and instead of regretting stuff because you regret taking that guy off his because you've got time in prison now you've totally changed and now you've got remorse and and you're actually sitting there thinking well that poor bastard that I fucking took hostage everything is out to deal with all his life and it's making you realise you know the the error of your ways and realising what you've put people through rather than the consequences you've had to put up with being locked up and that's what and that's what the parole people want to wear they want to wear that you remorse fuller and you understand what you've done to these people so they all say that when they come and visit you yeah you're in the jobs you're not just a songwriter you're a fucking hit you're a hit pop artist right so when you get out what you're gonna do I mean we've talked about this loads aren't we don't tell anyone don't tell anyone where you're gonna go or anything yeah yeah and work at the crime museum yeah yeah can't wait you deserve it now you've been out of trouble for so long and you know what's really good now it's like like I've said to you over the last few years this is the first time in your life where you've actually you're not sat there as a lost cause you actually know you've got so much to work forward to now to actually get out you've got a goal and you know that if you smack one of the guards or it's someone that's the last nail in your coffin you're never gonna get out yeah I mean that's massive for you innit have you got any regrets have you got any regrets at all hey I went you organised for me to go and meet Arlen Lord do you remember in Manchester he's a lovely fellow innit yeah yeah we sent him we sent him some we sent him some money to help fix the roof in the gym didn't we yeah he's a he's a lovely bloke have you yeah vex doing good I don't know Vicky Dar yeah he's doing well an absolute pleasure to do a bit of porridge hey I was telling I was saying about there's no porridge in prison anymore you have to have rice crispies now don't you it's outrageous innit I was just saying as well do you remember that remember when I came to see you just before covid and I think it was at Waddill and they took me in the wrong room and put me in with that Michael Adam Bawagi yeah they put me in with Michael Adam Bawagi didn't they oh do you know what I forgot to tell him about that when I met Robert Maudsley when I met Bob Maudsley when you said go up to the window and say hello to Bob so I put my head up at the window I went alright Bob and he had his face about an inch from me I went alright Bob nice to meet you and he looked at me and he opened his mouth smiled at his teeth and I turned round and he was in the cage pissing himself and I was like I was like what are you laughing at and he went do you know who that was and I went no and he went it's a fucking cannibal oh he's gone he's gone oh that's good didn't ring him won't it yeah that's class perfect timing what was it like then going through the process did you know much about your dad before he gave you the call well it's quite interesting it's a good question that because when someone says to you do you want to go meet Charles Bronson the first thing you asked us it starts fucking tweaking like a blood orange and you're like fucking hell Charles Bronson why would I want to go and see him is a fucking rave in nutcases of lunatics because you know the most is always labelled in the papers as the most violent prisoner the most volatile you know he takes hostages ties people up beats the shit out but you've seen the film I mean you know every time you know all the screws say is the hardest bloke that they've ever come across in in their fucking lives and even when 12 of them going to a room they shit themselves when he's 12 of them all tooled up so I mean what's it not to be scared about I absolutely fucking shit myself but now I've been and seen him so many times I've seen him loads of times that you know he's going to see him every two weeks I've visited him at Wakefield I've visited him at Franklin I've visited him at Wardale you know I've sat there with him and fucking Ian Huntley's been sat over there like dressed as a bird with all make-up on in a fucking blonde wig in a dress and I've seen some crazy shit while I've been visiting him I've met Robert Maudsley you know I've seen fucking Roy Whiteing and Peter Sutcliff and all these it's just it's a completely different world it's a different world it's a world that we're just not used to How does Charlie get on with these people? Do they fucking hate them? They won't let him anywhere near them because he would Ian Huntley you know I mean I say Charlie's not a violent person anymore and he's not he's totally changed he's so chilled out and so I mean you won't want to fuck with him because he'd rip your legs off you know he'd walk into a pub in Glasgow with ten of the hardest blokes you want and rip fucking threads out I mean like someone plucking a load of turkeys you just see loads of feathers coming out the doors he's hard as fuck I would not want to cross him because I think one of the pedophiles one of his stories he nearly killed a pedophile he strangled them to death yeah that was in Broadmoor, wasn't it? and he strangled him that hard he actually he actually he's told me this story a few times his dad went to visit him and he said to his dad oh can I have that tie and his dad gave him a silk tie and he gave him the tie and he had the he kept the tie and then when he waited he was sat in the room in Broadmoor and you see it in the film Bronson he goes up behind him and puts the tie around his neck and pulls it and he pulled it and pulled it and pulled it and then the guards come and rush him off and pulled him off in real life the reason why that guy survived was he pulled the tie that hard that he actually snapped the tie in half and that's the fucking strength of the guy How was it being for you for being that man the confessions of the paparazzi's to then Charlie Bronson the most punished prisoner in Britain saying he's your dad was that hard for people to think it was a scam or a con to when when you're trying to grow a relationship with him you've had the DNA tests you've had the saliva tests you've had the hair tests and both have come back to say that 99.9% that he's your dad How did you deal with that not really having a dad grown up to then Charlie Bronson being your dad it must been mad for you Yeah the thing that I found hardest about it was at the time I didn't realise there was all these Facebook groups and all these groups of all these people that fucking worshiped me old man and they go online they've got all these groups about him Charles Bronson, his Charles Bronson that and when he married Paula they were all like oh Paula fucking slag she just wants to be with him for fucking fame and all that the fucking she's had more cock than a farmhouse all this shit they were saying really horrible nasty things Paula was a really lovely person she was, she had a heart of gold she was one of the nicest people I've ever met she was mentally fucked in the head she had a lot of issues she had a lot of problems with like drugs prescription drugs and all that stuff but as a person you couldn't want to meet a nicer person she was a loyal friend she'd do anything for anybody but she was taking all these barrages of like trolls and insults and people saying the most horrible things about her which I believe contributed to her dying I believe when she when she died you know she kept ringing me up all the time saying she's going to take an overdose she's going to kill herself she's going to end her life and it was just awful but um what happens with Charlie people get close to him and there was one guy in particular a guy called Rod Harrison he was so close to Charlie he was his mate, he organised this he organised that he's, oh Charlie's my mate I've known Charlie for I've known Charlie 44 years through the bare knuckle boxing I've known him for years he's been my mate all my life and all this and then what had happened was he, Charlie'd be sending him all his artwork he'd be selling all his artwork and making loads of money off it and giving Charlie a bit of money in a bit of money there and whatever top of his canteen up and everything and then what happened was it got to the stage where anything that happened with Charlie had to go through this fucking guy right he just he was like the head of this bronze and empire and he just controlled everything so in my relationship as his son I went to see him on down I said listen I've got this fucking guy telling me what to do telling me what not to do all the rest of it so I ain't fucking listening to anybody I'm not listening to any shit any fucking groups or any whatever right we've got a relationship and if you want to have a relationship with me then we have a relationship and I'm not fucking answering to anybody and that's it and he went well you shouldn't be fucking answering to anyone I said so what about this fucking idiot then he reckons you know he's known me for 50 years he's done this he's done he went I've known him for about five years he started writing to me a few years ago asking me for signed photos and blah blah blah so I started sending him a few things he started telling him then he'd send me a few quid and we'd been friends and that's how we built up our friendship and he's like I ain't fucking known him for all them years it's a load of bollocks but he's and then what happened was he started this big campaign with all these other fucking idiots saying he doesn't know he's not Charlie's son they've not had a DNA test done they've not done this he's not done that he said something about I said that I'd had a hair tested when I went to Wakefield basically when all this come out I was getting loads of fucking asshole off the press and the papers and the telly and all the rest of it said about you being Charles Bronson son how do you know you're his son I knew he was my dad I knew from what he told me was going on and all the rest of it so me stupidly I just thought so well I went to see him and he gave me a hair from his mustache and I took it home and then he rang me and said get that tested and I said well I've got it tested and that was it worst thing I ever fucking did because then he got all these twats going you can't have things that has tested you can't have this you can't have that blah blah so anyway got in touch with the prison service and anybody can get in touch with the prison service and speak to him and confirm this got in touch with him and said right I believe my dad is Michael Peterson known to you as Charles Bronson Charles Charlie put an application in and we had a DNA test done at the prison in Wakefield by the prison service an official DNA and it was done by them by a doctor that came on a visit and swabbed us both individually sent them off and the DNA came back 99.9% that's it I don't speak about it to anyone else I don't get involved if all these fucking idiots want to say whatever they want to say then let them crack on I'm not really asked How was that for you the day you found out it was his dad? Emotional? Well I already knew it was me dad so I mean it wasn't much of a shock but it's just that final It's a fuck duty people as well isn't it? Yeah it's like yeah but the thing is why do I have to explain my life to anybody? It's because probably the life you led before it though because of the blagging you did do the jitkin ynddo for the outside people looking in the shit that you've done dressing up because you're the gas man to take photos of the prince to then the most punished prisoner in Britain the most well-known prisoner that you've become his son so people are going to go wait a minute something's not right there Yeah yeah but it's not like you know I mean when I was brought up as a kid I was brought up to fucking blag and do whatever I did to get food I mean in my bedroom I didn't fucking eat for days on end there was times where I had to nick like three pieces of bread and I had them under my bed and make them last fucking three days and like I used to cut the crust off and roll the bread up and dip it in water until it got really fucking soggy in a cup and then it made like a big lump of stuff that I could eat to fucking feed myself I used to blag myself me way through life just to survive and that's I went on with all the paparazzi stuff that I did but you know as far as Charlie goes you know it's not the sort of stuff you know the prison service I'm not gonna wear someone just turning up and going oh yeah that's your son yeah you know and when I go in and on me pass it says George Bambi Salvador son visiting Charles Bronson you know they've got all the DNA results there they've got all my information on the public records on the files the Ministry of Justice have got everything and they knew I was his son anyway because when I went for the original protocol and documentation all the rest of the shit to go and visit him they cleared me within 48 hours has he got other kids Charlie to see other sons? yeah I've got a half brother called Michael Michael Peterson he's not well at the minute he's in a clinic in up north he's had he's had a lot of really bad mental health problems and drug problems and stuff he's in a clinic at the minute but he's a couple of years older than me when was the last time your dad was in like a loony bin like Broadmoor stuff like that? he's not really Broadmoor for about 20 years it's a long time yeah he says no it's probably more than that 30 years ago I think it was like 85, 86 that he left Broadmoor but like he always says now is the only person is the only prisoner in the British penal system at the moment that's got a certificate off Broadmoor to say that he's signed he's been in the free psychiatric hospitals and I've been ramped and Ashworth Ashworth that's the free in it and Broadmoor yeah and Broadmoor oh no I'm not sure if he's been in Ashworth yeah he has oh I see yeah yeah yeah yeah he's definitely been in Rampson so did they nearly kill him in Broadmoor they injected him oh yeah they used to just beat the fuck see the thing is the prison service are a fucking disgrace because there's all this mental health stuff and there's all these criminals and then you've got criminals with mental health problems and you know you've got the criminally insane and you've got the insane you've got people in there in Broadmoor that are insane that sit there have a shite in their hand and eat it and the fucking they're insane right you've got people in there that murdered like 10 kids and they're criminally insane and what happens is when they get someone in the prison system that they just can't control they just call they do what's just called nutting them off that's what Charlie says they nut them off and go right Broadmoor because when they send them to Broadmoor when they can't control them basically they used to pen them down like 12 guys at a time and they'd inject them in their arse with a liquid cosh and it would paralyze them for three days I mean they literally could not move apart from the mouth and spit coming out of the mouth but one of the interesting things is Broadmoor's classed as a hospital it is, it's a hospital isn't it? so why are all the staff that work at Broadmoor all paid by the prison service they're all prison officers so it's not a fucking hospital it's a prison it's a prison it's just people it's a prison yeah dumbing your mind down to quiet you down it's a prison where they can just inject you lock you in a fucking room and not have to worry about you does your dad know the stories that he's done as mad though that who's the two Iraqi guys he took hostage and he got to tickle these feet and stuff and he wanted a helicopter yeah that was there was three of them yeah yeah he just read in the paper one morning these Iraqi hostages had hijacked a plane from Baghdad or Tehran or whatever landed at an airport in London and they'd been arrested and I think it was Belmarsh wasn't it? and he was in Belmarsh so they put me in Belmarsh and he was like oh right yeah you want to fucking take some British people hostage do you? thank you fuckers I'll fucking take your hostage they must have been thinking what the fuck have we got myself into Charlie Bronze is sitting there saying tickle my feet so basically the three of them were in the cell and and he just walked in and he went all right boys shut the door and he went right you fucking three of hostages at me now and that was it and he tied one of them up and put them under the bed I'm laughing for because there was three of them he wasn't in enough room for three of them in the cell so he fucking put one of them under the bed and the other one he put a noose round his neck with a rope on it and the other one he said right you fucking tickle my feet and he just laid there and made him tickle his feet and I think he had him for three days yeah I think he's want a helicopter that as well as well yeah yeah he wanted yeah I think that's what did he ask for he wanted a helicopter an AK-47 when I signed me and some jam sandwiches yeah I said to him fucking a helicopter an AK-47 and some jam sandwiches and he went yeah I was angry I'm like fuck you know the maddest stories I've ever told you oh he said he wanted a helicopter to get him to to take him to Mexico I want a fucking helicopter to take him to Mexico you need a petrol tank on it about five times the size of a fucking helicopter to get him to Mexico oh yeah what's the maddest stories have I told you that you've been shocked oh it's told me some stories that have really really badly shocked me I mean this is what I'm saying about all this mental health stuff a lot of the stuff that is seen it's trauma yeah it's fucking trauma trauma is like I'm convinced he's got PTSD I've always done all sorts of stuff I mean fucking hell there was one guy once that I think he had a mop there was a mop and a brush on the wing and he was with Ronnie and Reggie in Parkhurst and oh no no I'll tell you another story this is fucking tell me that one as well though yeah what matters we'll tell you now so he had the gold mop and the gold thing and he painted him gold and he said to everyone right this is my mop and this is my bucket if anyone wants to use it you can use it as long as you put it back and they were like yeah all right Charlie anyway this one guy kept borrowing the mop bucket and and didn't bring it back and he went into his cell and then he went listen I fucking told you once you borrowed me mop bucket you borrowed me mop and you've not brought it back I'm fucking warning you you do it again and there's going to be trouble and he's like yeah yeah all right all right yeah yeah it's only a fucking mop and a bucket and he's like well it's my fucking mop and it's my bucket because you didn't have you don't have many things in prison so anyway a couple of days later he's used his mop bucket gone off and he's not brought it back so Charlie's gone into Ronnie or Reggie's cell and said right I fucking had enough of this to I fucking I've had enough of it I'm going to do him so he walks into his cell and he had a tomato sauce bottle and he smashes tomato sauce bottle and he just kept fucking stabbing him with it and stabbing him and stabbing him and stabbing him and just basically cut him to bits and I mean just an absolute moment of psychoticness and I think a culmination of all the trauma that is gone for him all the rest of it where he just lost the plot and he did that and that's when they nutted him off and sent him to Broadmoor so he's turned up at Broadmoor and they sat there at the table and they're having some dinner and uh was it see I don't follow all the gangster stuff I've never been involved in a gangster stuff but you know I'm not interested I'm interested in helping me dad and that's it was it Ronnie that was at Broadmoor yeah yeah so he sat there with Ronnie and um he was at the table and this guy came up to him and he went oy to me dad and he goes oy I want a word for you a Charlie went what I'm watching fucking Top of the Pots what do you want what do you want he goes I want a fucking word for you I want a word for you and he went what he went right what I want is I want you to take me in the fucking recess room and I want you to punch fuck out of me and Charlie's gone he said what you want me to do what he's gone I want you to take me in the recess room I want you to punch fuck out of me and Charlie's gone I ain't fucking doing that I'm watching Top of the Pots now fuck off and leave me alone right so he's gone off anyway Ronnie's there in the paper and he's turned around to me dad and he's gone Charlie he won't fucking leave you alone until you beat fuck out of him he says you'll have to do it honestly he won't leave you alone so Charlie's like fucking hell anyway about 10 minutes later comes up he goes right I fucking mean it I want you to kick fuck out of me I said I want you to kick fuck out of me and I want you to do it now and Charlie's gone right fucking get down the recess I'll be there in a minute so he's gone down in the recess so Charlie's walked in and he's walked in he's gone right he's had a look round he's gone right he's gone right what do you want then a couple of fucking body shots it's no I want you to fucking just steam into me so he's just steamed into him and just knocked the absolute living shit out of him and then walked back and sat down with Ronnie and Ronnie's gone did you give him a good idea? he went oh fucking right he said they were giving him a good idea and all right so that was it so a couple of days later he sat there having his dinner and what having his car he came up to him again and he says I want you to give me another good idea and sort of fucking really enjoyed that he went you fucking what? he goes yeah I want you to give me another good idea and he went fuck off I'm not doing that again you get me into trouble now fuck off and leave me alone and the guy goes right he says I'll tell you something now he said I've got all these fucking cuts and scars on my face if you don't take me down the back and give me a fucking good idea I'm going to get me social worker I'm going to get me fucking nurse I'm going to report you to the police I'm going to have you done for assault I'm going to have you fucking in banging trouble Charlie went right get your fucking ass down that fucking recess and then he went down and battered fucking who was that? just like that just some fucking not case in Broadmoor what was the other story you were going to say then? oh yeah they sat there him and Ronnie were sat he used to sit on the same table having dinner and there was this big massive black fella and this little white fella and there's some butter on the table and and they're having the dinner there's butter in the bread and all this and this little white guy got this big lump of butter and put it on his thing and the black guy next to him just picked up this knife grabbed hold of his head and just stabbed him in the eye like that literally in his eye and Charlie said it was one of the most traumatic things he's ever seen he was like fucking how what did you do that for? he's like he fucking took too much butter and Charlie was like he's took too much butter and you've done that so when your dad present it was like seven years for robbery armed robbery and then it was just constantly fighting taking hostages baton prison guards and all this shit but in 2000 it was that when he took the art teacher hostage yeah that was Phil Danielson what was the real story about that? he just slagged his artwork off I mean Charlie there's a a really good screw called Mick O'Hagan and one day Charlie was in his cell and he was just up to his tether nothing to do fucking screaming out for some stimulation I mean if you lock someone in a cell for like 10 years and don't let them come out and all the rest of it I mean it's gonna fuck you up mentally isn't it? so this Mick O'Hagan went down one day says he art Charlie he has a few pens and pencils and a bit of paper see what you can do with that and he started drawing pictures and and it really helped him to rehabilitate himself gave him loads of therapy and he does all his artwork and he does it all now and you know and that's his outlet that's what he does and that's what gets him through the days and this Phil Danielson the art teacher they were there doing all this art and Charlie was doing some of his artwork and Phil Danielson said it was shit he didn't like it and Charlie thought right fuck you so took him hostage but I think the reason why he took him hostage was it was bored and that sounds stupid he took someone hostage and tortured them for three days because they were bored but if you think about being locked in a cell for that amount of time then he said to me you'd do anything to be out yourself for three days and that's sad that isn't it what's the longest he's been in solitary confinement for? I've been in solitary confinement for years without being let out with being fed in Whitefield in the cage there's a cell with a cage and you open the door and as you open the door it's literally a cage door like an animal yeah and they literally open the door and fucking lob his thing under like a letter box at the bottom of the door and just slide it in and shut the door How did his screws treat Charlie? Well, I don't know how they treated him years ago I mean from the stories he's told me from the stories he's told me they used to beat the shit out of him and also don't forget you know Charles Bronson it's not like he's not a big name in the prison system he's probably the biggest name in the prison system so if you get a group of screws that are sat there one night eight or ten of them and they're like bit bored and they're like oh fuck it should we go and batter Bronson and they just open the door and steam it and smash the shit out of him and then they go home to the wives oh yeah we fucking battered that Bronson we give him a good hiding today and that's what it was like in them days if someone they had an argument with someone they won't talk to them they just go and smash the fuck out of them basically So Charlie Bronson was the actor the American actor he got his name from in any change that to Salvador was he an artist? Salvador Dali yeah he bases his art and his icon is Salvador Dali the artist that's why it changed his name to Charles Saunders he makes money from his art what's the most he's ever made from a painting? oh some of his paintings are Salvador 20 grand have they? yeah that's phenomenal it is phenomenal but his artwork is phenomenal it's brilliant have you seen it? yeah so have you? yeah yeah I'll get you a piece yeah definitely I'll get you your own piece yeah I'll tell you something now it does more for charity than anybody knows about and the problem is with all the stories in the paper I do a lot of the newspaper stuff and the media stuff and if you've noticed over the last 12 months most of it's all been about like we had something big things in the papers front page last week in the Sunday Star and it was all about him doing a number one hit record and making money for this charity calm which is a mental health charity there's loads of charity but what we've done is in the past all these knobbeds that have been hanging around him have all been like doing little things in the paper oh Charlie's fucking one of the screws or whatever you know get a couple of hundred quid and they're not asked about what you know what repercussions that's had with my dad so what I've done is with my experience with the media and I've got a lot of contacts and I've got quite a lot of power within certain certain papers I've built up relationships with people that have not been about making loads of money they've been about the content of what's gone into the papers and a lot most of the stories that come out now are like oh Charlie's doing really well with his artwork he's got his parole coming up he's doing this he's doing his artwork he's raising money for this he's raising money for that and like I spoke to him a few months ago and I said how do you fancy making a record you want to fucking making a record how can I fucking make a record I'm stacking it I went well you can record write a song I'll record the lyrics and then we'll get a band involved and we've got this band in Las Vegas in Cyprus called Las Vegas and it was done through a very good friend of mine Ashley Sims and I got all the lyrics got everything recorded with Ash and this guy Chris Topliss mixed it all together we paid a good few hundred quid to get it all mixed and all done and all that and it was released last week and it gone straight in at number one in Cyprus number three in Sweden and number 31 in the UK shop Why Cyprus? because I don't know it's mad on it do you think that can change people's perception like if you're hearing the stories that's what people know Charlie as is the most punnies prison in Britain but he's also known as being the most violent so see if you're sitting in the parole board you may be going to Charlie's coming up for parole that day and there's a negative story that day they're doing any paper or he's done this and done that that would have major effects so you're trying to change and put the positive spin onto it well I'm trying to I'm trying to build up the the real Charlie because you mentioned Charles I went to see Anne Widdicom not so long ago at the MP she lived down there Rosin Davin I took my message round I just went round and knocked on the door and I went alright Anne I'm local to Davin or whatever and when my wife said there's only a chance we can have a chat and she went yeah yeah and she invited me into the house fair play to her so we sat in the living room made us a coffee come in and she went right what can I help you with and I said well I've come to see you I said because Charles I said you know Charles Bronson the prisoner and she went yeah and I said Charlie's my dad and the fucking lock on her face she went grey she's like alright don't think anyone just let into me house I said listen no need to be worried about talk to us whatever we've just come round for a chat you know nice people same as Charlie I said when you were the prison minister all I want to try and find out is when we when you were the because we're trying to find out what we can do with the parole and all the rest to give him the best chance to get out so I was like when you were the prison minister why didn't you let Charlie out of prison and she turned round to me and said because he was a murderer so I went it was a murder yeah I said right yeah he was a murderer I said well let me ask you a question I said can you remember how many people he killed and she turned round and she went well I don't know from the top of my head I can't remember what's on my head I think it was like I'd have to look it up but I think it was like 9 or 12 people that he murdered and I said and I said he's never murdered anybody he's never hurt a kid he's never raped a woman or hurt a woman and he's never murdered anybody and she went well I I'm sure he has I said well he hasn't I said but if you were the minister of justice at the time and you were the one to sign that bit of paper to let him out if you're sitting there thinking he's killed fucking 12 people it's no wonder you didn't fucking let him out yeah do you think he's ever been scared to come out because he's been so institutionalised that it came about a fear to come out no I mean obviously we've had loads of conversations about this and I've spoken to loads of psychologists and people that we've got on board mental health people and all this and he's going to be institutionalised there's no doubt about it I was in hospital for two years and I didn't want to leave he's been in prison for 46 years and it's all he knows but like he keeps saying to me I can't be institutionalised because I hate prison so you know Harry Roberts that killed the three coppers that got that out he'd been in for for years and years and years he's come out and rehabilitated himself how did the film with Tom Hadley come about basically the company got in touch vertigo films and just said it's a fucking great story and we want to do it can he act that? is it true that when he used to rub butter and stuff on himself is that all true? oh he still does that now yeah yeah when he gets a bit bored he did that I think the last time he did that was a couple of years ago I think he was in Wakefield about three years ago and uh and he'd been saving up his butter saving it up in a little bag and then he puts it in his boxes under his bol sack his boxes on and he goes out with his shorts and his t-shirt on he gets in the yard to do all his dips and all that and uh and these twelve of them we used to take him out with all riot shields and sticks and everything and uh and once he'd lock him in his cage in his exercise yard he has his own little cage with two of them right outside and then they sit there talking while Charlie's doing all his bits and whatever and uh yeah he just gets the butter out rubs it all over himself and then he turns round and his eyes comes down and he just goes right get your fucking mates and they look at him and go what? and he's going get your fucking mates you're going to need them and he's covered in butter and then twelve of them go in and he's like right fuck it and then he just goes for that How's his relationship with Tom Hardy now? Um well I don't think he spoke to Tom for a couple of years but it's like anything with Charlie you know uh I mean Tom was really nice to him because obviously he wanted to do the film when he went to see him and learn all about him and all the rest of it but since Bronson came out the prison service had banned Tom from visiting him why is that? well because he just brought a film out Bronson it's a fucking Hollywood blockbuster it's all over the place Netflix and everyone knows it and they don't want prisoners being portrayed into being big movie stars Yeah it's your dad get many celebrities still in contact with him uh yeah loads of them he's got loads of pals you know Barbara Winsley used to go and visit Embray Winston's a mate of his you know Danny Dyer loads of them yeah going forward for the future then you try to get your dad out what would be the plans to be for his life when he gets out? well we've already got him a caravan down in the south west and it's about 80 yards from the beach it's got a chippy onsite it's got a gym onsite it's a private place so not everyone can just walk in so give him a bit of privacy one of his rooms been turned into an art studio he's going to get a couple of dogs Ronnie and Reg got a barbecue outside we've got the crime museum in Torquay that we own and all his artworks in there and loads of all stuff from all his friends from the craze and all the rest of it and all that's in the museum and that's open all the time he wants to go and work in there and then people can come and visit the museum and talk to him and how do you think he'll handle that? because everybody will want a piece of his tension but I'd imagine you'd guide them and he'll keep them away from that shit yeah it's just all about like sort of like putting a bit of a barrier around him and because you know what it's going to be like you know when he comes out I mean I've had phone calls at ITV we'll give you half a million quid for the first interview when he comes out you know we wanted to do this we wanted to fight that he wants to do a talk and he's not fucking interested in any of that he's not interested in money he doesn't need money he's already got a few quid he's got enough to live on for the rest of his life so anything that he wants to do it will be because it will be because he wants to do it and it's something that he wants to do and nine times out of ten it might not even be about the money it might be about the opportunity do you think you can live a happy healthy life when he gets out? I hope so yeah I mean you know there's there's been a lot of sadness getting to know him and what were you? just listening to the stories and you know everyone goes oh he's a fucking violent monster he's an animal he's this he's that he's other but I listen to a lot of the stories of things that he's actually been through as well and things that he's had to deal with and I think the the systems failed him big time properly properly failed him he's not as any mental health care he's not as any psychologist I mean right he's been offered him but you know he's never had any health he's just basically he's just been locked away and the key just hung up on the side just rotten away just a number just rotten away yeah do you think it's fairy pee for him when he talks to you when it's more deep instead of the people who know Charlie Bronson as the prisoner the shit that he's done instead of understanding why he became the man that he's become in prison? you've just seen from you know a conversation we've just had you know when we talk to each other and we spend time on the phone you know he's only allowed to talk in 15 minute blocs so he runs me three or four times a night so every day we spend an hour talking to each other and we don't talk about you know these stories I mean the other day he ran me up and he went fucking out there's been a fucking kicked off today one of the guys next door is fucking slashed two of the guards up and cut him to bits and all that and I was like oh fucking hell he's like well you know they must have asked for it and like I said well listen hold on a minute I talked to him the way I want to talk to him and I'm not scared to talk to him in an educational way to make him realise and I'm like hold on a minute these two guards that have had the faces slashed and all the rest of it by this inmate do you not think that them two guards have got a fucking wife and family to go home to and they're doing a job and they're getting paid to look after you in the prison and so when I come and visit you they're all really respectful to me and they look after me they always ask me more I make sure I've got a cup of tea look after me they're always really polite and respectful for you and he's like yeah yeah but you don't know how it is in prison you don't know how it works in there it's a different life I said yeah it might be a different life I said but I don't give a fuck who they are no one deserves to go to work and come home and end up in hospital with like the face slashed and shit like that and he's like yeah no you know I've never thought about it like that because he's not used to that he's just used to violence all the time and you know over the last three years I've been educating him so much about about consequences of things and what is acceptable and what's not acceptable and what behaviour you know is right and what behaviour is wrong and you know like it's Phil Danielson years ago he's like oh fuck it I hate it I fucking regret doing that I've got a live sentence if you ask him about it now he'll be like oh I'm fucking I'm so remorseful that poor guy I should not have done that to him I can't believe what I've put him through I've ruined his life I've fucking made him fair to ever work again I can't live with myself and that's the change how strong is he because I know people say that he's strong because he's brought world records and stuff is he not oh fuck it oh as he's really he's a powerful man I've seen a picture of a cell door that he's fucking pulled open from the bottom and it's fucking bent up like you would open a baked bean tin I can't imagine to tell you how strong he is is he still training every day now? oh he does a thousand press-ups every morning when he gets up and a thousand before he goes to bed at night when I go and visit him he does 100 press-ups he does 90 I think his record is 96 press-ups in 30 seconds and I'm just sat there with his screws and I'm like have you got a timer go off and they go we're right 30 seconds ready go and he's like and he'll do 100 press-ups and then he'll just jump up and eat a fucking magna mysgrin that I've got from the canteen and he won't even like be out of breath what kind of food does he shit does that yeah I mean the old say you know it's great being in prison you've got no rent or bills and you get three square meals a day in the morning he's chucking a fucking plastic bag with a bun in it and a bit of cheese or something in the afternoon they'll get some cold stuff in a packet and then at tea they might get a pork chop a bit of mashed potato and some peas or whatever has ever says what he's missed most being out being outside yeah he misses like going to like a local cafe and having a proper English fry up and having a good dinner having a pint of Guinness and he always says like some of the happiest memories that he has is when he's getting transferred on one neck to the other because they put him in a van and fucking tie him up and chain him up in the back and literally can't move and he looks out the window and sees the cows in the fields and the sheep and fucking sad, innit? Yeah Does it make you emotional even after a visit? Yeah Makes me emotional all the time I mean Makes me quite upset sometimes when I'm with him and I'm talking to him when he's telling me some of the stories and stuff because everyone sees this fucking Charles Bronson fucking hard bastard don't fuck with him he's a fucking nutcase he's a lunatic he's a person and when you talk to him and you get to know him like I've done as his fucking son and we sit there and we talk to each other and we hug each other and fucking put his arm round me he's got emotion and he's got feeling and he gets upset and he gets you know and he's dead happy at the same time but he's not got any regrets about his life he wouldn't change your thing and he's not like I'll say it Yeah So just before we finish up Brunna I've got to say hello to my little son Lewis Of course shout out to Lewis how are you, brunna? Lewis Yeah, your bands played an absolute blind on the day with this interview with this this will do phenomenal but for coming on me and telling your story it's a thoroughly enjoyed it and I really mean that can't wait to see your dad out fuck ITV and BBC you know the reason of yours here mate I'll do it for free I don't mind I don't Do you know what? It's not only been nice to talk to you as a person but it's also been nice of the opportunity to explain a little bit more in depth about what my old man's like because it's not the monster that everyone portrays him to be Do you know what I mean? If you were sat here with him now having a chat you'd be like just one of the guys down in the pub you know what I mean? Yeah, but you know yourself how they mean I can portray people Yeah, it's fucking heartbreaking Would you like to finish up on anything? What's your businesses sort of before what's your businesses you like to promote them on anything? No, no, no I just no, no I've got a book out which is called George's World which is on Amazon and that's all about all my childhood and it goes right up until the minute I met my dad and then so that's called George's World that's on Amazon and I've also had a film made about my life and that's on Amazon Prime You've got that on Amazon Prime when it's it's called Stepdad and that's the whole childhood and stuff I was one of the first people in the UK to prosecute my mum and Stepdad Takes a bottle as well, man You've been through the world yourself, George and you've come through a lot of shit and listen, I can't wait to see your old boy out and hopefully get to meet him one day but for coming on today, George and telling your story I've thoroughly enjoyed that Nice song, mate Shout out to Rodney as well who your friend is Oh mate, yeah Rodney McMillan I've come up to Glasgow to see him he's just been given palliative care he's he's in a really bad way he's not got lung and hopefully whatever we can do we can try and do but just been a really fucking sad few days to be honest God bless you, George and again Thank you Take care, mate Thanks a lot Check out more of my podcasts on the right and be sure to like, share and comment your thoughts on this week's podcast Thank you