 Hey, good afternoon everybody, Tom Stewart here. I am with Liz Trotter and an army of other people today We've got Caleb Pierce. We got Robin Stevenson. We have PM Clyde We have Patricia Myers and we're going to be talking about pay types today as part of our accounting and finance Series for the month of November for smart business moves Boy, I'm exhausted No, it's a lot Tom. Yeah, so we're we're kind of done for the day here. I'll just kick back and let you guys go from here We haven't done this in a while have way No, we have it Do we have somebody else I don't think I don't think we do oh Denise. Okay. She's Denet, how come you're not here? They have they both have questions Tom, but the people here today on our panel also have questions and so I thought we could do kind of a hybrid of Questions and just answers between Everybody who's who's doing what who's tried what what's worked what really hasn't worked and for what reasons and that kind of stuff Yeah, that's that's awesome Pay is is a big deal. It's always been a big deal I think it's even a bigger deal now because you know We're paying more for who'd have thought we'd be paying this much for labor two years ago, right? nobody Nobody so we have more reason than ever to try to get that right. Do we want to talk about what we were doing last week? Any anything special happened last week? We were rocking it out in Vegas, weren't we? I think that was a week ago We have Tara hang Tara. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? You're doing great. You're doing great We were just talking about the vacation we took last week out in Las Vegas Sounds like quite a vacation Except Tom And uh, Liz Liz and tom are quite the speakers as well Oh I think I failed the game though He's gonna try it out. Do you Liz? Yeah, he went to give him a turkey hat And for the holidays and I know He was going to wear it last week I'm sure on Wednesday, but I wasn't on I don't have one to put on how about you guys was it Wednesday? Do we do something last week Wednesday or was it Monday? Oh my god I told you Tom Tom turkey Wow Denet uh, Denet hooked me up for a lot of holidays here. So I'm I'm good to go She sent me this one too, which I thought was really amazing, but man I don't care It's gonna be hard to talk about this with Tom. We're in this is turkey hat so Didn't you didn't you guys have a show last week with Dan? We were in Las Vegas and no we didn't we didn't uh We did some live streams, but we didn't do a formal hour session of of of smart business modes Oh, I I didn't realize My week's confused. Yeah, we were back last week. I stand corrected. I guess we did we did it all monday. I forget I thought you guys did on a monday because that was my first day back and I was not up for anything Yeah You're right damplad and uh, we uh, we we kind of geeked out on accounting stuff last monday Yeah what well Did how did how'd that go? I had fun You always have fun talking about finances. Tom. That's right. We'll talk numbers all day long Well As far as today goes We're gonna talk about paid plans. I'm interested that we have kala and tara Because I like to hear from perspectives from them, you know, they they definitely come at Situations from different perspective And I'm guessing that's part of what makes things work with you guys. Yeah You guys always have both both sides Of a view. Oh, there's linda So Where do we want to start with this? Do we want to just talk generally? Hey linda, how are you? Linda's my linda's my foundation's buddy. She basically got me through foundations 11 I loved it. Yeah, I think For sure. Hey kelly We have our our thanksgiving attire on So Is there one particular we was talking about paid types we're talking about hourly or Some type of split hourly type pay or maybe commission or You know being paid on a loud hours. I guess there's and there's variations and tweets on all of those Is there one best? Pay type to to to use or are there pros and cons to to all of them? Yeah Yeah, I think there's pros and cons to all of them. I've tried pretty much everything over my 14 years, honestly tom And first I tried hourly and there was no incentive for people to Really move through that home and an efficient manner really, right? If I didn't have eight hours of work for them, it was to their benefit to drag out their time So then I tried at least limiting their time and doing basically job ticket hours, which was helpful And then I heard of another pay type that was based on the hours that they work in a week Or that I was able to assign them and I tried that for a while as well But what I found was if I didn't have enough work for them that week It wasn't you know, it wasn't their fault, right that they couldn't earn my top tier pay So I felt bad about that and there wasn't a good way to monitor that So now what I'm doing is I do have tiered pay, but it's based on quality And it's by far the best for me and my company at this point We do have job ticket hour limits. So it's a three hour house four hour house, whatever But the amount that they get paid to do each house Totally depends on their quality that week And it's working very well for us Okay, so it's kind of what you call job ticket hour. We call allowed hours pay but the amount of paper allowed hour That is as awarded as contingent of own quality. Is that the quality score of that one job or is it an average over It's over the week. So every week they have the opportunity to earn a different pay grade But I'll tell you most people out of training get to our middle pay grade pretty quickly And then get to the top tier pay After that usually about a month or two in they can get to top tier Most people stay there, but sometimes we'll have somebody who will drop down and start to get some complaints And they'll drop down a tier in pay But of course our goal is to work with them and help them get back up to the top tier okay So I have a question Pam. Um, because I love that idea, but what about, um When we talked about earlier today like when you have Like right now I'm hourly But if I send someone to do a job that I calculated for six hours, but they're done in four hours So obviously my timing isn't correct Um, so my profit is larger. Have you I mean like do you have anything? That keeps that from happening or are you pretty good about like? Have you gotten to that point where your hours like you know what it takes it? For a job to get done. Yeah, we pretty much know I have a whole chart on that There are a few variations and of course for the deeper claims That's that's harder to monitor because the first time clean you don't know what you're walking into necessarily So I'm a little bit more lenient there But as far as the you know bi-weekly weekly and monthly amounts of time per square footage range Varying some sort of extraordinary circumstance. We can we pretty much nail that and we know Pam do you pay then? Um, when you're talking about job ticket hour, is it like a A dollar per per job ticket hour? Is it yeah, do you mind sharing your your pay? Yeah, absolutely. So ours is uh for poor quality. It's 18 per job ticket hour For for good quality. It is 19 per job ticket hour and for excellent quality. It is 20 dollars per job ticket hour Hmm How do you measure the quality? A little bit of both, of course we count on customer feedback. We do some spot checks If we're not getting any customer feedback Then we definitely send a qc person out to start spot checking some homes because that can be an indicator Or we'll pick up the phone and and try to find out Or they just not wanting to get the cleaner in trouble by not reporting anything because If you go a whole week in my company anyway If you go a whole week and you're not getting in we're not getting any customer feedback. That's a red flag Yeah Sure, definitely All right That's great. That's great to get us started Pam. I'm sure we're gonna have more questions about back to Um, Robin you want to share how you pay? Yeah, we use a split hourly Format where we pay a higher for we pay a higher hourly cleaning rate Well, the technicians are in the home, but when they are Driving from the office to the first client's home and in between homes and back to the office We pay it Basically minimum wage and the idea there is to encourage them To be in homes longer being efficient and thorough in the house rather than driving around in cars trying to I wouldn't say pat their their Their paycheck but But it just encourages them I think to be more thorough and do a better better clean in someone's home rather than Driving around in a car What is your minimum wage robin? The minimum wage is 7.25. So it's Is certainly a significant For them to just stay in a home cleaning versus jumping in a car The when they're in the car the windshield time is is strictly an expense to the company And it's not really benefiting them greatly, but they're still getting getting paid while they're going from job to job I have a lot of questions about that too Let's let's keep going on with everybody in see what everybody's pays are um Oh one more one question real quick robin have is that the pay you've Always used or have you have you switched? um, well Way back in the beginning about six years ago. We were at a commission based structure Um, but we changed that and went to hourly because it was easier to track Uh and in the market and for the cleaners. So we went to that but now I'm considering looking at commission again or some type of job ticket hour uh with some focus on Some quality but maybe more so on volume So if they're in the house, they're efficient. They're very productive They can get in a home in and in and out quickly but maintain the quality Then I want to be able to to pay be able to pay them more if they're being efficient with their time So I'm you know, I want to look at look at other options. So I can pay pay the technicians more but also improve profitability as well Cool. Thank you. That's helpful. Although Tom, can you give just a quick? um definition Of efficiency and productivity that the way we define them here. Sure. So everybody knows Efficiency is how much of the work day is actually spent cleaning a home generating revenue Um an example would be if I was cleaning Two homes in a day and each home took me six hours I mean three hours rather that would be six hours of cleaning time And if I were on the clock eight hours, it would be six divided by eight or 75 percent Whereas productivity is how quickly am I cleaning the home relative to the allowed hours So if I was doing a three hour home and it took me Four hours to clean it then my productivity would be 75 percent because you know Took me an hour longer than what it was supposed to So you want to see productivity at or greater than 100 percent and efficiency as close to 100 percent as possible so for With robin's example, you'd want that high efficiency That the paying that low drive time rate helps with that efficiency to get them get into that next job Where they're starting money again The thing that you have to manage with that split hourly approach is the productivity though because i'm making more money per hour while i'm in the home And if i'm not managing that my cleaning professionals might not move as quickly as they should because financially They have no incentive to clean the home any faster. They just have incentive to minimize the drive time yeah Okay, awesome. Thanks tom Caleb can you kind of run us through what you and Tara do either what you do now or what you've done in the past or yeah, so um For a while there we were doing paper deem which means that We would track The problem of this one is that yet when you track it you have to report it. It was a lot to do But track who did like the kitchen who did the bathrooms so that way percentage wise on the homes we could say, okay Sally's going quicker than jill or whatever And you know each person be getting a different pay per hour based upon the productivity That was the pro in it So that way, you know, you know, if someone went slower it didn't bother the other person Because they were slower About a year and a half ago. We did switch away from that style and we went too straight hourly Just because we were at a transition point In the company and we were able to do that in an effective mannerism I think you know, there's an internal debate that As we go so if we ever went solo You know about going back to an hourly rate Rather than tracking who did the bathroom who did the kitchen solo means, you know that this person did the entire home And so it's good having these different conversations right now about kind of like the pay for better quality And you know because we want to reward people for going efficiently and having great quality And that's really the biggest thing that I think really that's the biggest thing we're about is rewarding efficiency and great quality And whatever system kind of works out for that to be It sounds awesome. Uh our drive time is the same hourly rate as the clean time Every now and then I think once a week we're going through their time logs With made central it reports it very easily Who when is the drive time versus how much time is spent in the homes? So we can look through and say hmm It took them an hour to get between those two homes, but it was a 15 minute drive You know, obviously they took a 45 minute break or Was there an accident? Something right definitely a conversation that needs to be had though Tara do you have anything you want to add to that? Um, just straight or straight now to correct Just uh, I'm gonna move this just quickly Explaining what he was talking about what we used to do was we would have say we wanted to pay out like 34 of the home We would break it up into job Per per task pretty much which worked out great, but it's a lot to track and and I don't feel like doing that anymore. Um With the hourly I like it uh because once again, it's not as much to track But I feel like you have to watch things like the time in between the homes and things that we maybe don't want to have to deal with Um So but I don't know how to go about doing regular commission Um when there's a team That's the main question here is how do you how do you work that out when you have quicker people and slower people? That's all Okay, it's a good question We're gonna go around and we'll get everybody's questions in in just a couple of minutes too Don't forget no and Tara. I know that that's a question that a lot of people have so You want to make sure we get that one good? Um linda How about you? um I currently pay commission When I bought the business 16 years ago the existing owner was paying by the hour so for three months I did by the hour and I just thought I was throwing money out the window It just seemed like they were taking a very long time to clean homes And when I went to commission I realized four hour houses were now two hour houses and So I kind of like that With trainees their first five days of training They earn an hourly wage But then after they're out of the five days they go into a their 30 day training program So they get a certain percent and then when they're done with that their percent goes up and then if they become The supervisor their percent goes up. So the opportunity there's opportunities to keep going up until you feel supervisor um, we were running teams of two Now we're running because of covet. We are running a lot of solo work and they make 42 percent If it was a team of two they would split that 42 percent And a team of two consists of a team supervisor and a partner Supervisor always makes them more than the partner They're making sure everything is done properly. They walk around Clean for show making sure everything's done. We haven't left equipment behind Um, if there's communication with a client, they're the ones who do that um And then if there's a problem in the house I go straight to them first and it and they work with me to fix that kind of problem If for some reason it doesn't happen often, but if we have to do a re-do cleaning They don't learn anything So that's an incentive for them to Um do the job right the first time so they don't have to go back and redo for nothing um So the percent covers them from the minute they sign in till the minute they sign out at the end of the day And they come to the office in the morning and in the afternoon Um, they earn monthly bonuses based on quality and attendance and That's that's pretty much it in a nutshell And depending on their position they earn other little benefits like Uh, Costco membership or triple-a membership. So there's other perks besides pay Okay, I know a lot of people are gonna have a lot of questions for that For linda. So I hope you guys are making notes of the different questions you want to ask of everybody um But before We move on to trisha I just want to point out for anybody that's listening to this later When linda said that she doesn't pay them for reduced She didn't mean that they don't get paid for that time that they're cleaning and Doing that re redoing the house what she meant is no additional money goes to them But she guarantees does make sure that they're still making at least minimum wage For the times that they're working so So they wait mainly way more than minimum wage been in wage here is like 9 50 an hour So, yeah, it's important as a good point that it's important to account for those hours and make sure that those hours are included in number of hours worked for that week and to do the calculation to make sure that The pay gross pay for the week divided by those hours at least meets the the minimum wage calculation Yeah, just I just want to make sure in case I know that a lot of people will see this later So if there's someone new to business and if that's true here linda say that On commission or percentage that you don't have to pay people for reduce. That's not And once again, it's very rare that we have a redo because they know the policy There's always going to be reduced now and again. That's that's the nature of the beast You know Just making sure how we do it Okay Go ahead cheshire So we pay hourly and then I pay five dollars for So I pay the same wage, um, whether they're driving or cleaning and then I pay five dollars per uh location they go to and then um I had intended to implement like a quality in attendance Um bonus monthly, but because I considered switching to job ticket. I haven't done that so I wanted to like completely decide what I was going to do and go with So that's sorry. Mia was walking in so Perfectly, okay. It happens to all of us. I know she has to come in and hang out with me So you've been on the show enough to know that we either have pets or baby Yeah Trisha, can you I just I'm not sure I understand about the five dollars. Is that additional instead of doing mileage Instead of doing mileage. I pay five dollars per location So like it kind of evens out. Um I I try to think it evens out. So like I have a huge service area So if they're driving whether they're driving five minutes away from the next location Or 30 minutes the next location. They only get five dollars per location So they drive their own vehicle, correct? Okay Okay So that five dollars is like how you account for like mileage Yes, because I didn't want to keep track of mileage And I really would like to um like I don't know if anybody does this But I would like to go away from the whole mileage and keeping track and even paying five dollars the location if I could Change the way we pay And they would get a higher pay to include that. So I didn't have to track that either because currently Laura is like counting them when she runs the the uh payroll Counting houses Yeah, so like when it payroll comes up on customer factor And I don't know if this is since we're switching to made central But and we don't have a lot of employees, right? So that works right now But so when it comes up, it'll just give her a list of what those hours include It'll show which customers there are and so she can track it that way very easily Like she can easily see if it's five or eight But I don't know how that will work. Could we go to made central like if that will be possible one and two What happens when we grow larger like I don't know that that would work very well if I had 15 cleaners 450 Yeah, yeah, could be 50. I'll take 50. I'll take 50 Hopefully Yeah, so I just think that that's going to be more of a headache going forward one of the one of the things that As we move forward as an industry I think payroll really needs to be kind of a byproduct of the normal workflow rather than A major activity that you're spending hours and hours doing I mean with the technology that's out there today, it's 2021 for goodness sakes you know the idea of building spreadsheets and counting stuff and going through all of the The work that I know in years past that that some of us have done to implement payroll, especially Instead of pay such as you know commission or or allowed hours pay um, the tools are out there now where Really a click of a button here in there should it should get you to to where you want to go without creating a job for somebody to do all of that and It's really easy to just do a mileage reimbursement based on the number of miles driven over the week or You can just give somebody a higher, you know wage regardless of what your compensation is and explain that, you know This is in part to to account for You know the you driving your own car. I mean there's several different ways you can approach it Not all states kind of treat, you know driving and The you know reimbursement for your your your your vehicle the same way So it's always a good idea to talk to You know a labor attorney in your particular state to make sure that you know what you're doing in that regard is is correct Reimbursing mileage though is something that's generally accepted as part of the federal regulation and when you reimburse mileage To the maximum extent you're allowed to and I forget what that is. I think it actually varies from various parts of the country to the other they've gotten that specific now that if there's a Different well, no those four per diem reimbursement for hotels and so forth So it's probably the same number across the country But if you reimburse for mileage You don't have to pay all the employer payroll taxes on that nor do your Employees have to pay tax on that either. It's treated as a reimbursement rather than income. So there is some tax advantage to Actually breaking that out and saying this is the money that we're giving you as reimbursement for you driving your automobile would be kind of cool if if I know like on customer factor, which we're going away from If because they do gps if we could if that could just be automated, right? Like it takes the gps and says this is how many miles they drove that would be like a dream come true yeah, or You know the way the way that we do it is we let google tell us how many miles they drove that day Yeah And that's what we reimburse on Yeah Patricia my current software Does the routing and tells the exact number of miles? So I pay 25 cents a mile To the driver because they use their own vehicles Okay Like you i'm going away from it. I'm going to make central So and I don't know made central well enough yet to comment on that. I know but I am excited Yeah, I'm excited for the reports Me too Okay, so also for anybody watching this episode later This is not a made central pay Episode And I hesitated to bring it up and I wanted to mention it But just go into dental that So many people talking about that here today All right, they changed that for for for the record the federal mileage reimbursement rate for this year is 56 cents a mile So you can reimburse up to that point Um You know there's a lot of reasons that you might not want to do that but You know if you can negotiate a compensation plan where you know, maybe I'll pay a quarter less an hour But I'll give you more for mileage or something like that where it washes out You do save a little bit in taxes when you're You're maxing out on on the allowed mileage rate Hey tom, do they need to turn in their mileage in order for it to be reimbursable? You need to have some mechanism where you're you're tracking it. I mean if somebody says hey, I drove 500 miles this week That's not good enough. You have to be able to Show something where and it has to be reasonable. That's the other thing a kind of a reasonability test Um, if there's a piece of paper that they said that you know, these are the homes and this is how far we drove That's fine. If your information systems are tracking that then then you can use that information Um But there has to be some record if you don't have something that you can go back Either digitally or or on paper and show This is why I reimbursed 56 cents a mile for you know 62 miles that week Then you you could get yourself in trouble if you We're we're going through an uh a tax audit So but we can I guess I'm just kind of thinking through this On the five dollar a house Thing for example, we could list that just as an extra expense or extra Not reimbursement, but extra pay whatever Is it treated as taxable? Is it treated as income as long as it's taxed? Yeah, it would be treated as income not reimbursement because if you're if you're if you're paying like you're the employer portion Of taxes on that and if they're paying your employees are paying tax on it like income Then I think you're good That's what I actually switched to especially after I talked to you and found out that we really should have been tracking all of that Um in order for that to be reimbursable and I wasn't asking my cleaners to track that for me Um, I could go back and track it for them and I guess I need to do that But I did shift it from being a reimbursement to just an additional earning Yeah, I think mine is just an additional earning because we're not tracking it Tom is there a way for In a central for it to be um for us to be able to find that number and use it We we we track mileage. So that's that's kind of a byproduct of people just doing their work So if you want if you want to increase your hourly pay Would you go ahead and not reimburs include the drive the mileage expense As part of their income I prefer to Make it a reimbursable expense For tax purposes. You're doing both them and yourself a favor Okay, you know, I'm all about paying all the taxes. I'm supposed to but at the same time You know using the the the roles that are presented to us to you know Not pay more taxes than we should and it's a legitimate expense reimbursment And so It's not like it They actually increase their net worth by that amount for driving that week because depreciation on the car gas and other stuff net net You know, it's it's a wash. So it's this is a legit Reimbursement as opposed to additional income. So it's not fair for your employees to be paying taxes on it It really isn't for you to be paying tax on it either I say And tom so if I understand this right Since my people have the supplies with them, they leave from their home go to the first job Go to the second job and then go back home The only mileage if I was going to reimburse mileage the only mileage that's reimbursable is the amount from Job one to job two. Is that correct? As a rule, that's the way it works pretty much without exception I would check that whatever state you're doing business in just to make sure you're 100 on that but Check your head as As a rule, that's true They recently changed that in seattle and in denver. Oh, really absolutely That you're checking that And that's another reason to be checking with your labor attorney from time to time that whatever Is the rule today might not be the rule tomorrow true We can expect we're going to be seeing a bunch of new things going into the new year All right, if you were if you were looking to To change your compensation to more pay for performance What what direction would you go? Maybe some of the pros and cons between commission or the Job ticket hour Anybody want to take that question Sorry, sorry Go you go fam I personally have have trouble or have have had trouble in the past using the word commission I feel like if my team is going to hear You know, oh, I'm only getting 40 of the job. They're thinking. Well, what happened to the other 60? I did all the work, right? And it's also harder for them to understand that And then if I'm under charging for a job or overcharging here or there It just complicates things in my mind. So that's why I went to the actual dollar per job ticket hour instead of using the term commission Commission the word commission does Leave for a lot of misunderstanding because You know people can kind of go to a place where they think it's a multi-level marketing type thing And I have to buy inventory and I'm not making any money unless I sell stuff. So Calling it commission is is really bad branding We we we present it as like a productivity bonus program and we guarantee a minimum hourly wage Which is quite a bit higher than the mandated minimum wage But do it in a way where if they're making, you know, reasonable numbers They're making more off of the revenue share than what they would if they were just, you know, working hourly And we show them the math and say you're going to make at least say $15 an hour But if you've got reasonable productivity, you'll be getting a percentage of revenue share off the revenue generated that will exceed that and revenue share and productivity bonus is You know more more positive than commission and I really like it talking about it in terms of Your base pay is here and then you have opportunity to earn this additional Pay on top of that so that it's always Opportunity to be earning more money. Not less Is a good selling point too Is that based on uh primarily production? Productivity Well, it's it's basically how they're they're they're using their entire day. It would include efficiency as well Okay That's the end of the day the revenue per hour that one makes for the entire week is their gross revenue time Are divided by rather all of the hours that we're on the clock so that drive time and As always Supply work Meeting time. So if you guarantee a base pay and plus a percent If they happen to work overtime, how does that relate Do you have to guarantee their base pay an hour or one and a half times? Not necessarily their their their their base pay Um, that's a that's a really wonderful question because you there's two tests that the department of labor Will want you to to be able to demonstrate that you can pass and Again, I'm going to couch this that you all need to be checking with labor attorneys in your own markets because different parts of the country do things a little bit different but As a rule you take somebody's gross pay for the entire work week And divide it by the total numbers worked for that work week. That is their hourly pay for that week and if you're paying some type of incentive pay like Job ticket hour or you know allowed hours or You know what we what we call what we don't want to call commission what we would call you know, uh productivity bonus What you would do is take 50 percent of their hourly rate Calculated on what we just described times the number of hours that they worked over 40 so If I worked 45 hours that week and if I had an average hourly pay of 20 dollars an hour I would get an extra 10 dollars an hour times five Over time hours and if you add that in that's the same as paying time and a half for the hours that they worked over 40 So I I hope I hope you got there Linda that so they would actually be almost always getting more than than I think it's safe to say and in in the u.s. If somebody works more than 40 hours They would get more than their their normal calculated pay And again, it's 2021 and we live in a world that you shouldn't be doing a lot of manual calculations for that you need to Expect to have technology that's doing this for you I don't call our pay a commission pay because I don't like that word either. I have been calling it percent pay Uh, I feel more comfortable with that. I feel it kind of changes. Um, someone's way of thinking Um, because I'm I'm the one that's doing all the work and getting the client and um determining the fee so They're doing the manual work And they just get a I don't know a percent of that to me is different mindset than commission So tom, I'm going to challenge you over there at made central to come up with a new Pay type that has a new moniker. It's not commission not percentage But that encompasses percentage pay but with a base pay Because there there is no name for that in our industry currently and as you can see We we struggle another lexicon assignment. Yes I know how much you love that um I'm happy to throw out a couple of options But I definitely think our industry needs a a a paint type that is percentage but paid Above base pay Included base pay, you know, we're just going to have to hire somebody and make them like director of Lexiconology or something Lexicology tom lexicology. Okay If we just knew someone who loved to read a dictionary What is um, can you explain to me what pay per job ticket hour is? Exactly Who who who does job So, yeah, so each home is assigned with an hour limit So whether that's three hours three and a half hours four hours four and a half whatever it is based on the square footage of the home Um, and it's a couple of other factors, right? And so we assign that and each cleaner knows how many hours that we've assigned to that job job ticket hour A lot of hour allowed hour whatever you want to call that And then they get paid x number of dollars based on their quality And I know this may be may as i'm explaining it may sound complicated But in my mind, it's simple to understand. So this is what works for me Rather than having these bonuses and all these different things. I prefer to have it structured in three different quality groups poor good and and best um Times the number of job ticket hours for that house and that's how they get paid So I think this is where tera is is stuck. So tera normally let's say you have a job that You charge $150 for Okay, how how many hours? Do you think that job should take to clean? About two and a half Okay, so in pams pay system that would be called a two and a half hour job And so she would pay them for two and a half hours of cleaning time It's just you make less per hour that way right a cleaner just average They make more right Job ticket hours are the same as allowed hours is the amount of time that you would expect it would take to clean the job If you remember the example We gave earlier where if I spend six hours of my day cleaning a home and two hours like driving around in the meetings and so forth Six divide six job hours divided by eight clock hours gives me an efficiency of 75 percent If as a like company wide let's assume that on average my company efficiency is 75 percent And if I want to have a target hourly rate of $15 an hour of of clock time So if I work eight hours in a day, I'll make eight times 15 What I would do is I take that $15 an hour and I divide it by my company efficiency factor of 75 percent That would give me 20 dollars an hour. So you would pay $20 per allowed hour and that would be the same as paying $15 per clock hour That makes sense So what do you do when there's a team in there and say one of them is a quicker more efficient cleaner and the other slower Would they would they be upset that their job is not getting done as quickly? You know, but they're still getting paid that you know allowed them out Anybody want to take a shot at that? Yeah, they definitely that definitely bothers them. Um, and so that that's why both We from the office standpoint the trainers and that team lead that they're partnered with On that particular job is really it behooves them to work with that cleaner and help them be more productive Per you know job ticket hour per hour that they're in that home Because what you don't want to hear is why did 70 percent of the home and she only did 30 right? That seems unfair and that can create a lot of problems within The company or that team So what I'm going to tell you Tara is You you're going to have that problem no matter how you pay That is true Even if you have paid hourly The people that feel like they clean more of the houses and the other person cleaned less They feel like it's not fair. You're going to have that So I ideally you want people who clean to the same Speed quality et cetera working together if you if you can But that that actually goes to your question that you were asking earlier. I think a little bit Um You wanted to know if you have teams of two Yeah, how do you how do you split the pay which is a little bit In line with the question that I had for Linda Which is When you you said that if you you have a percentage like 42 percent And then you have a team of two but then How do you decide You said one person will make more and the other person makes less the team Captain or coach or lead or whatever will make more but how do you know how much each Person makes and I think this kind kind of ties into terrorist question as well for teams So you're you're asking me the question. Okay A person has been promoted to team supervisor. So no matter who she works with or he They make a set percent and they are the team supervisor No matter where they are whoever works with them And then the person who works with them as a partner who makes Say 20 and if she works with another team supervisor, she continues to make 20 percent So if you have two So a team supervisor, for example, will make 22 by themselves or in a team and if they work Alone, will they then make 44 percent? Yes, okay, and then if I have two team Supervisors working together would they each make 22 percent? No, then it drops down to 21 percent each Because neither one of them is supervising the other person Right But right now we're going so much to solo That's becoming less of a concern. I only have one team. That's a team of two Because I actually have some clients who want a team of two And the partner on that team does not want to be a supervisor And she does not want to work by herself. So it kind of works out And and there's exceptions to all the rules like if it's a first time clean like pam it said It's kind of hard to really know what they're walking into. So for first time cleans I give a range of prices a low end price and a high end price to the client I don't charge by the hour But I also pay the team a total of 50 percent for a first time clean because of what they're walking into Um Move in and cleans move out cleans. I pay 50 percent for the whole team. So if you're working by yourself, you're making bank You're working hard Definitely definitely feel better about making more money about that doing that job Oh, um Robin You had asked a question that I don't think we completely answered A loud hours versus Whatever this percentage slash commission pay like what are the kind of the The highs and the lows the good things and the bad things about them one one of the things that we didn't mention is with a loud hours you're in charge of giving your team members raises So you can you you are responsible for giving them paying increases but with the other type of pay whatever tom's going to call it over there is um Their their pay increases are kind of baked in they get paying increases as you raise rates for your clients Depending on how often you raise the rates. So on the one hand, it's good for Painting And on the other hand, it's also good for a painting. I know that one of the things that One of my one of the people I know that uses this well is chris will it he really loves a loud hours And one of the things that he really loves about a loud hours is that When he raises prices He's bringing in all that extra money initially until and then he decides how he wants to How he wants to distribute that money In a loud hours when you give somebody a raise it feels like it's a raise because they really see it Making, you know more per hour more more per job hour um On the job type formally known as commission you would um You're in alignment with your cleaning professionals on making sure that you're charging the right amount Because if the cleaning professional doesn't feel like that they're being compensated fairly They're going to come to you and say you need to charge mrs. Jones more Whereas if you're doing job ticket hour or what we call a loud hours pay They're going to come to you and say that you need to tack more time More more loud hours to this job in which case that could drive your payroll to revenue Which you don't want to do so There's pros and cons to each there is no no perfect perfect one it's a matter of Figuring out which one best fits your business model and which one best addresses the the issues that that that are most important to you One of the things I did too tom was Um, I realized after talking to some of my cleaners that have been with me a while And that are a lead they felt like if they've produced excellent quality But maybe a newbie produced excellent quality should they both be earning 20 per job ticket hour? And so I looked at that and I ended up giving my leads a little bit more a dollar or two more per job ticket hour As a reward for them. So they felt like that was more fair and that seems to be working well Okay Well, we are pretty much at the top of the hour we've got another minute or so here any uh Go ahead Okay, um, one of the questions that we get a lot is how do you train? How do you pay your trainers? On whatever your your pay scale is how do you how do you manage the training? Do you guys mind all just going around real quick and talking about how You pay your trainer for the time that they're training Yeah, we pay a daily rate Of 20 dollars per day to train That's what we do as well They still are in their job ticket hours for the houses even though they have a helper They might finish early, but they also get an extra 20 dollars a day for training days There are they able to take on more jobs pan because I'm thinking with yours They have one one person. Maybe they're training on two houses But then they could eventually get up to four houses in a day So they could be getting double their pay And then also 20 dollars. Is that correct for us? We don't give them any more work because we really want them to focus on that training And we don't want her to miss something along the way So we still keep them at the two houses a day for however long the trainee is in training And that training period for us lasts anywhere from two to three weeks I don't Um for the person who's training or the team who's training they get an extra two percent And then I pay the trainee by the hour So if the team is earning 42 percent they would earn 44 percent Okay Not that much in the beginning, but then you pile on the work So at the at the end of a week Or the end of two weeks however long your training is they're making more than double their pay Okay I currently don't pay extra for training because rod does all the training And then the few times that someone has to help someone I just have it But I like that. I love the 20 dollars a day. I love that So I'll probably use that Not to rod them. You don't get extra I'm sorry rod Caleb rods my husband. Just so you know, I'm not mistreating anyone over here I might accept your husband. It doesn't count right terra Well tom we actually have another meeting that we have to get to right now two minutes ago, so We're good for today, but we'll be back wednesday five o'clock eastern. Hey guys Thank you all this was fun. Appreciate your help Thank you guys for better list