 Sweet. So this is my first time with you all, obviously. So if I do something absurd, please stop me. Or if I speak too quickly, that is feedback I've gotten before, feel free to tell me to slow down. But without further ado, let's dive into full say editing. So who are you? I am Anne McCarthy. I'm a WordPress product liaison at Automatic. I basically describe it as being an accelerant, a doer and a dot connector across both the community and the company around WordPress. In particular, I run the full sighting outreach program, which I'll touch on later. But that's part of what's helped me kind of pave the way for others who are interested in full sighting and understanding what's going on and what's to come and how to adopt what you can. So what to expect from this session. I always love to know going in what I'm in for. So I want this to be part presentation, part discussion, basically about the high level scope of things, ways to adopt pieces and what's to come. I don't want it to be me lecturing the whole time. So I really hope we can have a discussion and also just adapt so that what I share here is actually helpful for you all. So if I start going off on the tangent, feel free to say, actually I'm gonna be more helpful to hear about this. So for now it's kind of like bare bones, high level and then we can choose what to dig into. So I'd love to start with a little prompt just to hear like what, if anyone's open to sharing, if not we can keep going, but just what have you heard about full sighting? Cause that's very interesting to hear like what's actually made it to people. So I'd be curious if anyone is open to sharing. I'm open to sharing and I'll say, actually we had a kind of like a small session where Ed Beck, who I think you're familiar with who actually made the connection between us, which I appreciate. Yes, that is fantastic. Gave us a little bit of an overview of it. And one of the things we've heard about it and like I've kind of seen with it is that it is in some ways kind of putting WordPress in a similar kind of logic as something like Wix or Squarespace where you have this kind of more easy to use interface. And I imagine there's a lot of tension within the WordPress community around that. So I mean, that's what I've heard in being an old school WordPresser as you know, I'm kind of one of those, like what is this full side editing? So that's just giving you a heads up there. Yeah, and then I welcome it. I should preface it by saying sometimes people hold back because for whatever reason, maybe I'm because I'm a sponsor contributor, I work for automatic or I run the outreach program. But I actually, it makes my job better when I hear what's hardest for people. So you're making my life easier if you tell me exactly how you feel. Because ultimately in the long term, we can help address those things or at least get information out there about what's going on. Please don't be shy. You will not hurt my feelings. I don't take any of this personally. I actually, I truly do appreciate when people share what might be blocking them or what's most frustrating. So yeah, thank you. That's a great call out of kind of the comparison to Wix and Squarespace. I've heard that as well. Does anyone else wanna jump in? I'll jump in. I was in that call with Edbeck and Jim and Taylor was in there as well. And we went over a couple features for full site editing. A lot of the biggest changes that I saw was the theme customization where you can change the colors and customize headers. And like Jim said, it did give more of a Wix or Squarespace feel where people can edit the site right on the page instead of going more of a block feel. But also I noticed that full site editing isn't in full production. It's only in the 2022 theme currently. If I'm mistaken, if they edited to other themes, that'd be good to know. But right now I think from my perspective, I think it's only in 2022. Yeah, that's a great call. It's basically like to adapt these features. You have to use what's called a block theme and we'll go into detail further in the presentation. But yes, right now for the default themes, the 2022 theme. And then there's also technically a 2021 block theme. It's called TT1 Blocks. So they made a block version of the 2021 theme as well. But for the default themes, yeah. We have about a hundred, I think we just broke a hundred block themes in the theme directory. Maybe a week or two ago. But for the most part, you basically won't access it if you're using what we would consider like a classic theme with PHP templates. Sweet. All right, I'm gonna keep moving. I can't see you all so hopefully it's okay. No one's jumping up and down to chat. So to start at super high level, like what is full siting? So it's really helpful to hear what you all have already heard. Perhaps what Ed has shared. And Ed, I have to give him a shout out. He's been a super helpful part of the full setting outreach program, giving great feedback so and making this connection. So I really appreciate it. So from my point of view, the way I describe full siting is as a collection of features that allow you to basically edit, control all parts of your site with blocks, along with what I'm calling like a unified style system which gets a bit more technical but I think is also an important piece of this. And this collection of features, the most part can be more adopted completely or in pieces. So there's what's called like the gradual adoption milestone and that is a specific focus is rather than just saying here you can have all of it or none of it, there are different pathways in to actually adopting pieces as it makes sense for you. So one of this work begin, I typically say around 5.8 is when some of the infrastructure got put in place. 5.9 is really when a lot of the user facing stuff was unleashed on the world. And then 6.0 was basically like a refinement release where it started to slowly expand and unify some of those pieces that were previously released. 6.1 is slated to be similar to 6.0 and that it'll continue to kind of expand and refine what's there. So let's show about some of the various features. You'll notice that as I go through this I had a really hard time breaking this up because a lot of them are interrelated. So we might talk about block templates but then patterns also impact block templates or theme blocks you use typically in templates. So it's kind of this circular discussion but for the most part these are kind of what I would see is the biggest different sections to think about when it comes to full sighting. So block themes as mentioned before block themes basically give you access to all of the site editing features. So to use the whole gamut you'd have to use a block theme and that's why it's like intentional to actually use these features and not saying that's gonna take over their site back in the day when I was doing these kinds of presentations that was like the first thing I would say is it's not gonna take over your site you have to actually opt in. But block themes are basically made up of block templates, block template parts, theme JSON which is a configuration file and then there's 30 plus theme blocks that all have different tools so we'll go over those in a bit and then most recently with 6.0 style variations were added and I actually have a quick demo I'm pretty sure it's the next slide of what style variations actually mean and for some people this is not gonna be terribly exciting but for others, for example, you could provide a block theme to your university and have a couple of different style variations that someone could pick from. So this should be a quick demo. So this is the 2022 theme. I have to give credit to Kel, the designer who worked on this theme and this is the initial style variation that comes with the 2022 theme. So this is just changing around the file so theme JSON controls this configuration file. So if you switch up the theme JSON file that powers this and refresh, you'll notice that the width is different the colors are different, the fonts are different, there's actually a duotone filter on that image of the bird, on the featured image. And it completely changes the look and feel of the site while keeping kind of the content in place. So it's just a good example of the power of style variations you can get really extreme here. There's actually talk of rather than doing a default 2023 theme this year, doing just style variations. So using 2022 as kind of the base, but then having just really distinct style variations as part of the offering. And this is a great example from Rich Tewor. He has the lobby theme and you can just see all these different options and colors, which is pretty neat. I always love looking at this image. So now let's talk about theme blocks. So theme blocks are, as you can imagine, basically blocks that control parts of your theme that previously you might not have been able to add directly, that now you can do so with blocks. The biggest ones that were actually dedicated milestones was the navigation block and the query loop block. And work continues on both of these. In particular for the navigation block, there's a lot of work being done to ensure that when you're switching from a classic theme to a block theme, there's a really good migration pathway. And it makes sense. There's actually an open issue I was reading this morning about the different use cases and scenarios to make sure that it's pretty robust when you're switching over. The query loop block as well replicates the query loop. It's very powerful. It's one of my favorite blocks to play with, to be honest. But then there's a lot, I would say, for agencies and enterprise folks, we hear a lot that they're having to extend the query loop block, which is not, I'm always like, what are you extending about it? Let's get the feedback in. That's very powerful, but then also, there's a lot of work to be done to kind of cover all the use cases. And then you have things like the site logo block, the site title block, and then all these, you can see post-featured image, post-date, post-exert. I won't go through all of these, but that's just a high level. This is looking at, if I'm not mistaken, the query loop block. So you'll actually be able to scroll down and you'll see when you change one thing in the query, so in this case, we're gonna add a dootone filter, it changes the whole query loop as you'd expect. So it's kind of a neat, fun, I just find it fun to play with. I think I made this video. But you can do things, didn't show it in this, but I'm gonna pause over here. You can actually change the featured image size and it'll reflect everywhere. You could remove these different options, whatever, and it'll all just reflect across the query, which I love. And this is the navigation block. So this is, you can add in a site logo to the navigation block, change around the order. The navigation block, I will say, since I run the full site and average program, we have run into a lot of feedback around usability. And if you compare using it to the customizer, I do think there is like a pretty steep learning curve. So that's another part of this is figuring out how to make it more intuitive to work with. So in that case, you're just adding a site logo block to the navigation block. Other feedback that we've gotten, particularly from, I think WP campus brought this up, but having mega menus, so having layers of menus, maybe you hover over, it's a students and then you have it broken apart with headers where you can have different sub menus. That's something that's not easy to do with the navigation block. And actually the header block is not supported in the navigation block. So there's still work to be done there. So patterns, I, someone recently said to me, Miguel, who's another core contributor, he's like, I feel like up until now it was like the world of blocks. And going forward, it's gonna be a heavy emphasis on patterns, which I thought was really interesting. So on 6.0, a pattern explorer modal actually came with the Inserter. So it kind of provides a more intuitive experience of finding the patterns that you'd want. There's more work to be done. There's actually a whole issue that I could pull up around the pattern Inserter and what needs to be done next to make them easier to actually use because it's kind of getting to the point with the pattern directory where there's so many of them. And if you actually integrate with the pattern directory, how do you best take advantage of what's there? So as a result, there's these different options that come up. So for example, you can curate the featured patterns that are actually shown in the Inserter. You can also have starter page patterns, which I recently did a call for testing on this. This is like one of my, I think a really cool feature that's come out that's not enabled by default. You'd have to actually opt in and categorize the starter page patterns with a specific category in order for them to show up. Yeah, a demo, I'll show you a demo of this in a second so you understand what I'm saying. And then prioritize patterns in certain flows. So if you create a new template, right now it's blank, which is also being worked on, but the quick Inserter will actually show just a little plus plus button will actually prioritize patterns rather than showing blocks like the paragraph block or image block. It'll actually show patterns for things like header or footer or query loop, which is neat. So when can we intuitively show patterns in a way that when folks need them, they'll surface. Tied to this, there's support for the patterns folder and block themes, which is a huge improvement before folks are having to register them in kind of a roundabout way. As a 6.0, there now is it's super easy to just drop them into the patterns folder and they show up. And then you can also register patterns from the directory with the JSON. I will show a little brief snippet of what that looks like. So let's say you're working with someone and they really like a couple of patterns from the pattern directory. You can actually pull them in to your sites rather than them having to go and copy and paste in the pattern directory. You could have them show up in the site using the JSON, which is kind of cool. This should be, yeah, this is a quick demo. It's not a great one of just the pattern, starter pattern options. So basically when you're creating a page for post, you can actually have it. So these patterns will show up. So in this case, actually this, I think for a YouTube video that I did, you can have different options here or you can just close out and get started. But if you have like events you're creating or whatever, you can actually hook it up so that patterns that folks often use can be selected. I don't know why I just did that. Okay, I'll play this through. And this is also, again, you have to opt into this. So this isn't just gonna appear on someone's site, but you can select or close out. And this modal is also being worked on along with a couple other ones. So you can just fill this in. So it kind of provides some good starter content. In this case, it's not very visual. So this is actually a very practical example that tends to be how I operate. I'm not a designer, but you can do more visual layouts for more complex ones as well. And this is what theme JSON you can basically use for registering patterns from the pattern directory. So in this case, the short hyphen text is basically just the URL slug from the pattern directory. And you can just list them with commas, which is pretty neat. I find this to be a fun, easy way to bring patterns into the experience. So now let's show about templates. So as I mentioned, this kind of all bleeds into like block themes and all this sort of stuff. But you can edit templates directly with blocks and a lot of work is being done to increase the template options. So I think in the last couple of weeks, there have been like the author template, categories template, a single category. So let's say you have a category of posts for WordPress posts, you can actually create a template just for that category WordPress, which is really neat. Tied to this, the query loop block has had a ton of advancements because oftentimes you're using the query loop block with the templates, including like technical advancements of what it supports. But also in terms of like the user experience, a lot of the language with the query loop block is very technical. And so we've gotten a lot of feedback around that where we need to make it a bit more intuitive or have certain defaults turned on whenever you're adding it. So for example, turning on inherit default query, whenever you add a query loop block so that automatically pulls in the settings that it needs to for, for example, the author template, right now you have to actually turn that on and have to remember to turn that on. I'm hoping to see that resolve for 6.1 or perhaps a point release for 6.0. There's also some refinements for switching to templates. So that involves a lot of work around the post editor where you're actually creating a post or page and you wanna assign a template. We've improved the interface there. There still remains. I love to call out things where we have more work to do. There still remains a lot of work to be done around unifying the site editor with actually the post editor. So right now there's not a ton of back and forth there. And for example, you can't create a new poster page from the site editor and you can create templates from the post and page editor, but it's very limited. So you couldn't create like a date template. Basic can only create a single template to use for that. So there's a lot of work here and right now I would say it's around expanding the template options and making the site editor scale appropriately based on the template options. So now design tools. Wow, that's a really big strip or actually make it smaller. There's a lot of design tools that have grown with the different options that come up. So one of my favorites that came out with 6.0 involves Flex Layout with the row group and stack blocks and basically row and stack are variations of the group block. And you can think of them as just container blocks. So whenever you're building layouts they provide quick ways to customize what you're trying to create. There's also duo tone support and more blocks. That's what I'm showing here is duo tone. I've had a lot of people say like, why are you adding this? This is not something that most people need. I've also heard on the flip side a lot of theme authors and folks saying how powerful the feature is. So it's kind of one of those split things but it is a really fun and powerful design tool. I actually use it sometimes when creating YouTube videos, which is fun. You can also create really cool ways of customizing different individual templates. So Rich Tabor has done some cool stuff there if you're interested in that. There's also some transparency options with the color picker as well. And more basically the color picker itself has been redesigned to allow for a more comprehensive sidebar experience. So before it was a kind of a bit sprawling a lot of white space was used up and now it's a bit more condensed and a bit sharper. There's also been a ton of typography tools added. Line height, line spacing, font family, font size. There's currently some really interesting discussions around standardizing some of these tools and some of these options for both typography and for spacing. So the next one is expand support for margin padding block up and more. So how can we actually have kind of a standardized system? So let's say you were using a blocking and then maybe you switched to a different one. How do we make sure that what is seen is like the medium size for spacing or the medium size for fonts actually correlates with the design of the new theme that you're using. So that's something that's currently deep in progress. Lots of like very interesting conversations back and forth there. And then lastly, the last one I like to mention is using a featured image in a cover block which I'll show a demo of. I'm pretty sure it's this one. Yeah, this is a picture of me with my grandma. And so you can kind of see this is a little sped up. So I had a cover block. This user experience has actually changed since I did this. So before there was this little option here. Now in the last Gutenberg release, last couple of Gutenberg releases, this has been iterated upon. Hopefully a point release will make this a bit clearer. So I basically just click that button and it'll use the featured image. Now when you do this with Gutenberg, it'll actually show the featured image here. So in this case, the featured image has already been added. Now whenever you do it, it'll show up there. Which is pretty neat. Then you can change the opacity and all sorts of fun stuff. I can grab the post title, place it there. Basically change the height to all sorts of stuff and then refresh. And that shows basically the cover block using the featured image. So now whenever I create other posts, I could reuse this and have the cover show the featured image in a cool way. Which I think is more visually appealing and also a very common design that we've had folks repeatedly say they wanna be able to do. So now let's show about gradual adoptions. We have all these different features, all these different things. What can you actually do to gradually adopt these items? So you could just use theme blocks. So for some folks, maybe you wanna use a crew block for like a landing page or something like that. You can always do that. You can adopt theme JSON for a classic theme. So I think folks whenever they think of theme JSON, they think that it's only for block themes and that's not actually the case. So you can actually use theme JSON to manage your styles and your settings. You can add block patterns and start to lean on those more. You can enable the template editor, which is basically the ability to add and edit templates when you're in the post editor. You can use the block widgets editor, which was released in 5.8. I had to think about that for a second. And then there's more to come. So one of the two other things we've actually had come up repeatedly is there is a whole style UI and style system. The project name is called global styles for end users, we call it just styles. But how can we actually expose that without it being dependent on the site editor? So to access all that stuff, for example, to change all your headers to be black and font size 48, you have to go into the site editor and edit it there. But what would it look like if we actually replicated it in the customizer or provided it somewhere else without the site editor that's currently being explored and I'm cautiously optimistic in the next release or two that we'll see that there. The other one is editing template parts. So rather than just having access to edit your entire template, what if you could only allow folks to edit their header or footer or maybe a sidebar? Ooh, there's a ladybug over here. So it's one of those things that's being also worked on right now, a developer by the tag name Mamadouka. He works for GoDaddy, his name's George. He's working heavily on this and I'm actually, I do think this will come out in 6.1 where basically you'll be able to only edit. Header, footer, sidebar, anything that's a template part which could be really neat. So for example, if you want someone to have access to just edit the navigation of their site, you could do that. And so thinking about gradual adoption, I just added the slide like 10 minutes before I came on here. I wanna introduce some terminology and some of this is, I would say, not falling out of favor but may not be as applicable going forward but it's still worth having this if you're searching for different things or having conversations with folks. So classic themes built with PHP templates, functions that PHP and more. Block themes are made for full-citing using HTML templates, template parts, theme JSON. Hybrid themes is basically a classic theme that adopts a feature full-citing. So for example, you could have a classic theme but it uses the template header or a classic theme but it uses theme JSON. And then universal themes works with both the customizer and the site editor. And some folks at Automatic did a lot of experimentation with this and there's actually, let's see if I can pull up. I should have linked to this but there's a cool block base which basically an open source universal theme from Automatic and it allows you to have both the site editor and the customizer. And you can see different themes that are built with this. So this can be kind of useful for folks who are trying to gradually move into this space but don't wanna fully go and commit without the customizer. I will not go too deep on this but I definitely recommend. I actually linked to this just so if you all get the slides. We'll do this, there we go. You all can have access to that. We'll go back to slideshow. So these are just terminologies that's worth keeping in mind. Don't feel like you need to memorize this but I find it to be a helpful framework in thinking about gradual adoption and actually I think it brings a lot of clarity to what this actually looks like rather than speaking in hypotheticals. So another piece of feedback we've gotten a lot is this is opening up the experience of too many things. How do we lock it down? I don't want my users to have access to this, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a ton of different ways you can actually limit stuff mainly through I would say either removing access something entirely, theme JSON or the new locking API. So there's locking APIs that allow you to lock individual blocks, allow you to lock parts of patterns so you can retain a certain style. So for example, if you have a pattern that uses the cover block at a certain height and a header block in a certain place, you could actually set it up so that those items are locked but maybe you can edit the text of the header. And you can also lock templates too and you can even change which users have access to lock or unlock things. So there's a lot of granularity there to dig into. Theme JSON offers a ton of stuff so I'm just gonna run through this quickly. So you can limit controls that are available so you can limit it globally or per block. You could, for example, if you wanna say users can only change the font size between these three options, you could do that. You could also say users can change the font size of every single block except for the heading block and for that one, there's only two options. So there's a ton of cool stuff you can do there. You can also offer defaults. So for example, if you have a certain color or branding, you could say you can't select a custom color but you can select from these or you could say you can select from these and you can select a custom color. There's a lot of different options there and I'll link to some resources in a second. You can also just disable things and remove access. So removing access to the template editor, disabling the pattern directory and more. This is just kind of a brief overview. And so now I wanna talk about what's to come. So I know this is a bit of a whirlwind and I'm actually gonna pull open these because I find it to be really fun to visually look through this stuff and I won't go too far in depth but I did just wanna bring attention to these posts. So roadmap to 6.1 is the most short-term, tangible, reliable source. I actually anticipate because Future Freeze is coming up that we'll see some of the stuff bleed into 6.2. So in this case, the template editor, and you can see it's like energy is the ability to browse, visualize and edit the structure of the site, providing more clarity between global items, the aim of unifying the template editor and post-editor experiences. So this basically what I was talking about before where you have the site editor where you can edit templates and you have the post-editor, how can we actually unify this a bit more and also provide a way to see the entire site. So when you're currently editing a template, you basically can only see that template. So what would it look like to have a bit more information as you're going around? So for example, let's say you select a template part that's a header on the specific template. How would you know that that's also being used in another part of your site? So there's a lot of information that needs to be done there and then as mentioned before, the navigation block is also a big part of this. So how can we help maybe use the navigation block to provide a way to actually navigate between your site? So that's what this is showing and we'll look at that in a second in this issue. And then patterns, there's a ton of stuff to tailor them and proving the ability to save them. You can see on the zoom in here, there we go. So you can see this is kind of a iteration, potential iteration on how you could actually, explore and find patterns in your site. And this includes like locking things down. So rather than just saying like, we all these different patterns, how can you actually offer like a more curated experience, locked patterns after you add a pattern, how can you quickly switch between patterns to the same category? That's a big one that's come up. Global styles, this is the project I was telling you about with the styles. A lot of this has to do with unifying the style system and resolving problems that have come up with block theme authors when they adopt blocks and design tools, tons of stuff here. So as we're making progress on the Global Styles interface, we also have to think about actually managing the different experiences. So this could include everything from the Web Fonts API to responsive typography, which was just released in 13.8 last week, if I'm not mistaken. But I love this with an eye towards consistency, reliability and delight. So you shouldn't be building a site and all of a sudden going like, wait, why does this block have this option? Like I can control margin here, but with this block, I can't. So that's one of the big things that have come up is there's inconsistency in terms of which blocks support which things. And this is a big part of the work is to expand and improve that, as well as allowing the ability to restrict and have privileges and curate presets. So just as we're opening things up, it's also what does it look like to actually have the option to turn things on and off. And then this last option of themes and gradual adoption. So included in this is also theme switching as I touched on a bit earlier. So there's a lot to be done here, which is very exciting. So that's a high level overview there. Then I would call this like a medium term expiration. The reason I actually referenced this one is because I think it touches on a lot of the problems I commented below, but it touches on a lot of feedback that we get in the full-citing outreach programs. Let me zoom in more. So this is a comment from yours truly. And I'm gonna call this out because I think it touches on the high level feedback. So distinctions between global versus local elements, improved information architecture for things like the styles. Right now it's shoved in the right corner. Browse mode so you can actually see all parts of your site and how the changes impact things. Right now it's not possible to do. A deeper connection between post pages and templates. You can prove clarity around when you're editing each. We've had folks accidentally editing templates directly and it impacts every page that's using that template when they think that they're editing a page, which is not good. A greater understanding of where things are in use. So if you're editing a template part, it's a header and it's using a couple different templates. We need to tell people that. And then more entry points to the experience. And then I have a whole list of things that concern me about this design, but I think it's really good to look at a design and an expiration that pushes things in a different direction. So if you're interested in actually digging into this more there's a five, almost six minute video walking through this, but a high level you can see these great screenshots. So for example, if you're editing what we're calling a global elements, like a template part or reusable block, imagine if you got a little prompt and it had like a nice color that indicated, hey, you're selecting something different. And if you want to edit it, you actually need to like click again to edit it. So kind of providing some friction and information at the same time of what folks are doing. Cause right now it's really easy to just like edit a bunch of things and not realize that you're touching the entire experience. And this one, let me see if I remember. Yeah, so this is changing what's called, like I think this is called the navigation component, but bringing in so you can hit content and post pages. So bringing that back in is a big thing that folks have asked for. And this is just part of unifying the experience. So right now, if you actually open the sidebar, you basically only see templates and template parts. And this is talking about adding in a content section. An editor is content first because right now you're kind of template first. This is also a big thing. So imagine you're editing a poster page and you want to see what the content will look like when you're actually, when it's in a certain template, which I think is really cool. Imagine there's just a little button and you can click on it and then maybe if you want to switch which template it's using, you can do so there and switch between them. And actually get a sense of, okay, what is my content going to actually look like? Which is pretty cool. Because right now this is not possible without just previewing the page. And I actually think if I'm remembering, probably there's an issue where if you change the template and hit preview, it doesn't properly update. And then again, about management of different items. So imagine you have like a library and you have patterns which will block to the parts templates. How can we make the actual management of all this easier? And then from the point of view of curation, imagine all of these are curated and you've defined them for folks. Which I think is pretty neat. So we'll keep scrolling. Browse mode, this one kind of, I'm curious that this, you're able to grasp this. I actually really struggled the first time I saw this to understand what the heck was going on. So imagine you open up your site and then you can actually click on the menu items. And as you do so, it switches between the experience and you could actually click in. If you wanna edit, you can hit edit and it brings you to the appropriate editor. I'm gonna play that one more time. And there's a couple of different explorations of this and what this looks like. But basically it's a way to, as you're making changes, see your entire site and have a preview of sorts or browse mode to go through the different parts of your site. This is also about unifying the menu. So currently it's split where whenever you're in the site editor, you might have some of these items here, but then like styles is in this corner. And it kind of is just a weird information architecture. So this is something that's being heavily discussed and debated is what kind of information architecture needs to be in place. So that maybe all the things global are in one parts of the site editor. And this is the same sort of thing. So having global styles in the sidebar. So I could keep going through all of this, but it just keeps going to be honest. It's really comprehensive and I definitely recommend checking it out. As I'm showing you this, I just wanna offer reminder, this is not set in stone. This is literally an exploration. But some of these things in the medium term, I imagine will be explored. And if you're a nerd like me, Matias, who is the project architect of Gutenberg really doesn't need deep dive into the pain points and also challenges of a lot of this stuff. And then also offers some kind of back and forth and there's like a really neat conversation here. I love to see this work come into being. So I wanted to share that. And then finally, the last one is one from Matias. And this is very long-term. So this is like very out there. This is right now we're in phase two of Gutenberg project. This is phase three, which is focused on collaborative editing I almost forgot the phrase of that. So this is focused on collaborative editing and what it would actually look like to extend the experience. So I think it goes through collaborative editing, extending, so if you're using WooCommerce or another plugin and then also personalizing. So, and this is a really important note is that this is the most far out there. So it's very much not settled and it's just explorations. I highly recommend reading through this. This is another expiration of adding in browse mode with navigation so that you can actually see the different parts of your site. I would call it like an earlier iteration. And yeah, you could then click edit and actually go into edit the experience. There's huge problems with this obviously. So for example, what if something's not linked that you want to browse to on your site? How would you get there? I was on a call with some designers about that and started digging in there. So there's a lot to be explored. Changing around the home button. So this is kind of trippy, but imagine if WP admin looks like this and see others at the WooCommerce tab. So right now it's a bit jarring when you're hitting and going back to the dashboard and this would be a way to smooth that over. It looks pretty, but what does this look like at scale when you have 10 plugins, for example. So that's one of the things to explore and then making it sensible. So this is what it could look like with WooCommerce. So maybe WooCommerce has that purple since it matches their branding. And then you can go in and have a similar sort of experience. So offering something that's familiar as you're going through that plugins could hook into. I think it's kind of neat. And then making it personal. What does it actually look like if you wanted to configure this and shut things down or open things up depending upon the users on your site. And then it goes into multiplayer having the ability to search or find things with ease and just generally what does it look like with real-time collaboration. And there's a couple of explorations of folks. I think it's called, yeah, as blocks. This is something from Riyadh. And I actually use this. I use this with Justin Tadlock the other day but I can create a post and then share this with folks. It'll pop up a link hopefully. But this is very much like someone's random experiment. So you can see copy. I can say write or read and kind of share who's sending it. So I could share this with you all. You can also add comments in here. This doesn't make sense. And then I could have back and forth with folks. Which is kind of neat. So this is an early exploration of what kind of basic Google Docs and WordPress would look like. So those are kind of high level what's to come. There's also a lot of work being done around switching to block themes, using that pathway, gradual adoption, all sorts of stuff. These are more like design explorations looking forward. So it's hard to go into all the details in a short session, but I wanted to mention that. So how can I get involved in the future of WordPress? I want to do a plug for the full site of the average program. I am biased. I run this. That's how I met Ed, who gives great feedback. But there's basically just regular calls for testing. I also share updates about PRs or things to test or conversations to chime in on. So if there's things that you, if you want to basically have like a curated way to see what's going on and how you can contribute and share your thoughts and pain points, it's a great spot to jump into. And it's also just a great way to learn alongside others. So people will ask questions in there or share what they're working on. All are welcome. You don't need to have some sort of expertise in full-citing to join. It's literally meant for anyone and everyone and actually less expertise is often sometimes better because you can get better feedback that way. And then I wanted to just drop some resources. So the curating the editor experience guide is something that I recently worked on with some folks that touches on some of what I covered in this presentation, but actually gives examples. Simple site design with full-citing is a learned WordPress course and just gives kind of like a crash course and different parts of full-citing. And then converting a classic theme to a block theme, it's just helpful to understand how to adopt. So those are three resources that came to mind for you all. And yeah, that's what I have right now. I just want to say thank you. I know that's a lot of information. And if you want to stay in touch or have follow-up questions, I have a site nomad.blog and then I'm Ann Zazu, I make Slack and I'll actually drop my email here just because it's a small group. So I don't feel bad about sharing my email. Let me pop back over and stop sharing now and pop into the chat. Oh, perfect, here. I'll drop the slides. Share and you want the link in view? Perfect. And then my email is here. Seller it. No, I'm seeing. Yeah, so if you have any questions or anything you want to chime in on, I know there's a lot of information. I think you're talking. But I can't, yeah. Ha ha, yes, I'm sorry. People can throw questions in the chat or they can unmute themselves, which I never remember to do. But yeah, thanks so much. I do have a question kind of right off the bat that I'm really curious to hear what your thoughts are on. But first of all, I just want to say it's really interesting and cool and I really appreciate you kind of sharing this early exploration stuff, like particularly the cover at the end, about like unifying. I mean, if I had to, like in my head, I'm summing it up as unifying content editing and site editing in some ways or at least bringing them closer together. In my experience, folks that are new to WordPress have a really hard time, not everybody, but for certain types of brains that people have a really hard time with the idea of like this is in the dashboard. This is a post-editing thing, which is of course in the dashboard, but you know what I'm saying? That's a tricky, and I think that somewhat comes from a lot of tools that they're used to using or like other CMSs and stuff are starting to use that similar paradigm of bringing the two together as well. So that's really, really interesting to see and I really appreciate that. Kind of related to that, I guess. How do you, like if you have someone, a lot of folks in this call will have had the experience of like showing someone WordPress for the literal first time and everyone has different strategies about like what they like to cover first and what they like to maybe wait until they've made some stuff. How do you like to introduce someone to full site editing? Like who's maybe new to WordPress? Or do you like to maybe not really even get into that early on? I know it is early for this stuff. That question. Yeah, so it's funny when I early on, I actually taught professors how to use WordPress and how to set their sites back in the day, which was my favorite, because the tables would turn and they'd be like, wait, you're going to quickly slow down. I was like, now you know how it feels. But yeah, I would say showing someone full site editing for the first time. I actually, the easiest way, and this is kind of a cheat, I actually did a YouTube video on this and I did this for our marketing team and for different folks at automatic in particular. I literally have a video that's comparing here's the old way of creating a WordPress site using like the 2020 theme. Here's the new way and literally like side-by-side comparison. So it's like, if you want to update the site title, here's how you would do it. If you want to change the colors, here's how you do it and kind of you literally like take common actions that people would want to have and then show them the different ways. And the reason I do that is I think it shows the power of full-siting and also helps kind of highlight the issues very early on where if you're using a customizer, there's things you just can't click on where with site editing, I'm like, yeah, you have to be careful because if you change this, this is all the stuff that will change. And one of the things that I'm actually really keyed up on is improving the saving functionality whenever you're done, making all the changes, having to make the saving process a bit clearer of what you're actually changing. So that's simply the way I've done it is one very visual. So I do not try to drop people into some sort of documentation with the site editor directly. I actually do a lot of user docs for 5.9 and tried to make it as visual as possible because it is a visual editing experience. So those are the two things I suggest is being hyper visual and then literally comparing all the new. If someone's never used WordPress before, in that case, I think just really spending time in the post editor, getting them familiar with just basic block actions because once they understand how blocks work, how you can add them, how you can move them around, where you can edit the block settings, that same experience is what you're gonna find in the site editor, just a bit more robust with a bit more of an understanding of what's global. So I'd probably start them up with just basic block actions, how to add a block, how to find a block, how to customize it. And then from there, drop them in the site editor and really explain what it means whenever I say global and maybe have them run through changing a header. That's probably the approach I would take. Well, and that makes sense too, as far as like, again, looking towards a future, if we're hoping that we can bring some of the, like you mentioned, template editing into, or better hooks into the post editor, people can kind of naturally, use what they've learned with block editing on posts or pages out. That kind of makes sense to me. And I do appreciate the advice of showing both because it is also kind of a weird time for someone to be brand new to WordPress, right? Cause it's kind of like, hey, you're going to go with theme shopping is what I was to describe to people as, and some of them are going to work different. That's just kind of how it is, you know, right now anyway. Yeah, that's a huge thing that I've like mold over. I still haven't figured out the right way. And it's part of why I added that slide lesson on the different types of themes. And the theme directory actually recently got, there's like a new block theme category that folks can pick from because I really didn't want people stumbling into it. And I actually am hoping there's going to be, I'm working with some community members on this and there's a lot of debate around how to properly show this. But to be able to explain to folks, hey, if you click on the blocking category, like this is what it means. Like maybe there's a banner or something like that. Cause I do think someone could actually like drop into it. Totally. So we got a couple of other questions. I wanted to have maybe talk about Jerry's question in the chat here. And that's yes, what impact is full site editing have on accessibility for screen readers in pages produced as well as administering the site? So in terms of full sighting, it's just using blocks. So in terms of accessibility, the same problems and the same benefits you're going to find with accessibility. One of the things that I've also been working with the accessibility team on is actually how to determine when a blocking is accessible, which is actually a different problem to solve than with the classic theme. So maybe I can find this issue real quick and I'll drop it to you all. Cause I know this is a big topic that comes up in higher ed one second. So even taking a step back, I was doing right now, none of the block themes are listed as accessible, which is a huge problem. And whenever I talk to folks on the accessibility team, they talked about how the testing process needs to actually be different. So rather than testing a theme, you need to test the output of those blocks. So this is a discussion around that and actually something I'm following up on this week because some work has been done to improve this so that the team can actually move this forward, but there hasn't been movement in the last like month and a half or so. So I'm going to start poking people. And in terms of administering the site, one of the things that's come up from an accessibility perspective is basically like the layers of content. The more nested you get, the more confusing, the more you need, auditory cues to know where you are. So for example, the columns block, one of the big things that was coming up is, which is column one, column two, column three, like how do you announce it to folks? And how do you, you know, if you have, if you're 10 layers deep, how do you get there with ease or how do you actually properly communicate changes across the site? So Alex Stein and Joe Doulson, Carolina Nymark, like a lot of these folks are thinking about these problems and trying to improve it. And the good news is that whatever is done in the site editor will also impact the post editor. So like these benefits and these problems will exist in the post editor as well as in the site editor. I would call it to more of an extreme in the site editor where it's hard to not get between the layers. Tied to this, the more buttons you add and like the, so for example, if you want to view the template, so the more buttons you add to have different access to features, the more you have to think about the accessibility because if suddenly the experience is shifting or the focus is lost, all of those things become even more important. There was a recent bug that was found actually around the focus getting lost after I think switching between something in the navigation block. And then navigation block has had, has a ton of accessibility features added to it. So I'll drop, if I can find this post real quick. Yeah, here we go. This is a post I worked on with folks from the accessibility team. Let me jump to Jim's. And Jerry, if I didn't answer your question, feel free to email me. I'm happy to talk about this. Yeah, Jim mentioned he might want to unmute so feel free to do that, Jim. Yeah, hi. I guess, and I don't know whether this is, you know, question or more of a comment after all I'm an academic, right? I want that. In what you were talking about, just a little bit about ago about introducing folks to full site editor and stuff like that. So I'm one of those people, my job, I'm actually a professor of economics. Now I've been, you know, I've been WordPress pressing myself since 2008. And, but now half of my job is, you know, in a center for teaching excellence, teaching, getting faculty involved in our WordPress. So, you know, think of, you know, I don't know, last six years, like 400 maybe, faculty I've tried to introduce and stuff like that. One of the problems, and I mean, I'm really looking at the full site editor, I'm having the same conflict ambivalence that I've had for a few years now that started with Gutenberg, which is I understand where we're going and I'm really excited about that. And I'm increasingly just getting so frustrated at what used to be such a great word, supportive WordPress community and the direction that it goes. And one of the things that I think it hits is it feels like I deal with faculty who want we may call them users, for them WordPress, they have something they wanna say. They're speakers, they're writers. They're not designers, they're not developers. What they want is something that empowers them to write. And by write, I mean broad-based, yeah, it can be images too and all that other kind of stuff. And increasingly, we have so complicated this and we don't provide any good ways to wrap your heads around it. Because what it used to be was, I had to introduce the following concepts. I had to explain pages versus posts. What a theme is, and a theme, the way it used to be was kind of something most folks could grasp because it was like, oh, it's like this overlay that changes how the appearance and layout looks, fine. And then you just get more and then customizer. And they get excited, oh, I can tweak how it appears. And they get real advanced with widgets and menus. They're off to the races. Nowadays, oh my God, there's all this, it feels like WordPress just is being built for professional developers and designers or people who want to make WordPress development and design or building websites their life. So now all of a sudden there's blocks, but there's not just blocks, there's all kinds of different types of blocks. And there's not just an editor, there's full site editor, there's block editors, there's post editors, there's page editor, there's, you know, widget editors, all that kind of stuff. And then there's now, there's themes, templates, patterns. And part of the frustration is, I think we have a mismatch of mentalities. I mean, most developers and designers in WordPress tend to be very kind of left-brained, you know, very detail-oriented, which is all very good because that's what I want my coder to be. But a whole lot of faculty and, you know, those folks need to understand the framework. They need to understand the metaphor, they need to understand these term concepts first. And then they can wrestle with this. And it's like every time I see a new version, there's, oh my God, there's new language, new terminology that is all inside baseball. And it's hard to find out what it means, let alone keep up with it. And so I'm kind of like drag, I feel like I'm dragging my feet on adopting stuff because it keeps coming out. And I'm like, when it's, it's ready for me because I can't afford to spend all my time keeping up with it. Yeah. And what I'll say is a couple of things. One, adopt as you want, like when you're ready, it's not gonna make sense to everyone right now. Like it really won't. And that's okay. That's by design. This is not another Gutenberg 5.0 you must adopt or else. This is like, you might wait until it's fully fletched out and you can do everything you want or you could adopt early because it gives you control that you want. I also would say that one of the things that's being done, I hear you when you're like, oh, there's all these terms and all these things. Some people you work with might need to know those things. It might be the block femur who's blocking you use. And they might release a block theme that's very much solely focused on, don't worry about anything, just focus on writing. And then maybe before you publish, you change a couple of things and it has a different accent color or whatever, places the featured image in a different spot. And you don't have to worry about the rest of it because the blocking takes care of it and it's locked down. So this is where curation comes into play. And for university environments, some folks will need to know about the curation. Some folks will need to get in and tweet the pixels. But for a lot of people, they can go back to just worrying about content. They don't need to have access to that stuff. And that's where a lot of these blocking APIs and theme JSON, I think are gonna be really powerful. And I anticipate personally, based on my light background and higher ed, there's gonna be more work that needs to be done with governance. So a lot of these things will need to be upfront governed. And I also think there's gonna be a change in workflow. So previously, back in the day, whenever we would do sites, it was like, we're gonna build a site, present it to folks, see what they think, and then maybe tweak backwards. Now what I'm seeing, and we've seen this with the enterprise level and agency level, the designing happens actually upfront with patterns, with templates of all the sorts of stuff. And then folks can go in and play with it and kind of actually have a live way to interact with the site. And so I think there's a combination of technology change and also workflow change. And that workflow change is gonna be quite difficult for people to adapt to in some ways. And that's something that I've been trying to get more folks to write about and share how it's actually changing their workflow and their process. Cause it's not just a tech change, it's also a workflow change. But I do think this is where full-sighting is being built for everyone, but it's not gonna make sense to everyone at the same time. And the best way we can get to that is kind of hearing feedback like this and evolving from there. So I hear you, there's a lot of conversation around the terminology. I just dropped a link to a post actually on MakeCore that goes over how can we make it more user friendly? There's also discussions around stink. This is if you really wanna get into the weeds, this is a fun issue. How can we consolidate terms like pattern, template part and reusable block? So what could we call that? Could that be a synced block? So someone can only know one concept. So there's a lot of work being done to consolidate this but we are in front of an in-between phase and you're right, it is really painful and it's really annoying to have to figure out all these terms. I struggle, I mean, just the other day I was trying to think with designer and like we were talking past each other about kind of the same idea and eventually ended up sharing a video because I was like, I don't know how else to communicate this. So it happens for me too. So I definitely don't wanna be, it's something that's very real until we talk about a lot in the outreach program. Great, great. Well, as you work with other folks though, pass that word on, cause it feels like even like in the characterization of higher ed, it feels like WordPress is leaving the individual blogger behind. That that's no longer an imagined user when in the ecosystem, that's not the imagined user anymore. Whereas that used to be the big population and now if the imagined user is, oh, it's a natural somebody getting paid to spend their time creating sites for some form of large organization where all the pixels have to be lined up and you have branding and all that other stuff. Or, it's e-commerce. I dropped out of following a whole lot of WordPress. or discussion and stuff because, and I don't go to work camps anymore because the only thing, I mean, the only thing there is for e-commerce. I mean, WP campus accepted. Yeah, this is, I think it's really fine to find your bubble, to find your niche where it's like, I think WP campus is a great resource. And I hang out in there by the way. So if anyone's in WP campus, I'm also I think Anzazio there. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. I totally hear you on this stuff. I'm all about like curate. I'm not on Twitter for that reason. I actually need to jump. Yeah, I know I cannot, I need to jump because I have another, I'm a little late to another call, but I really appreciate chatting with us and I really welcome you all to email and reach out. Cause these, this sort of feedback is exactly what we need. And I'd love to flag different discussions that you all can be a part of. I'm sure Ed will do a great job of doing the same of flagging things. Thank you so much for joining us. This was fantastic. And really appreciate having you. Yeah, of course. And thanks Jim for kicking it all off for me back in a day without you even knowing it. It's awesome, right? How far it's come and it's just interesting. Yeah, there you go. But yes, I won't go on. I know you have to go somewhere, but thanks again for coming and sharing with us. See y'all.