 This is the Humanist Report with Mike Figueredo The Humanist Report podcast is funded by viewers like you through Patreon and PayPal. To support the show visit patreon.com forward slash Humanist Report or become a member at HumanistReport.com Now enjoy the show Welcome to the Humanist Report podcast. My name is Mike Figueredo This is the 191st edition of the program today is Thursday May 2nd And before we get the show started I want to take some time to thank all of our newest Patreon PayPal and YouTube members all of which either sign up just this last week to support us for the first time or increase their monthly pledge And that includes bang duang beer farts 68 love that name Charles Dobner, Christian Veneman, Dorek Sited, Drew Simonson, Hunter P, Inform Forum, Yvette Korea, Jamie Allister, Jerome Descato, Joe Cleanott, John Michael DeMise, Lionel Garza, Marcos Marchen, Rodrigo D, Sanfarnia, Sharon Shore, Tina McElroy and Wendy Melly Thank you so much to all of these kind individuals if you'd also like to support the show You can do so by visiting humanistreport.com Support Patreon.com forward slash humanist report or underneath any one of our YouTube videos You can click join and that will immediately give you access to our content And I usually will upload videos for members early if I get them edited in advance And you get access to interviews everybody gets access to the the full episodes early So it's definitely you know something to look into if you support the show So this week on the humanist report podcast Biden and Bernie's teams go head-to-head on the issue of health care Elizabeth Warren calls out Biden's corruption Joe Biden's past stance on flag desecration Comes back to bite him in the ass Bernie's reception at she the people wasn't necessarily ideal Bernie calls out Biden's abysmal record and he also reclaims the narrative when it comes to voting rights Jacob Wohl smears Pete Buttigieg and finally we close the week by talking about Joe Biden's stance on Venezuela And I talked to Peter Dow about his upcoming book and our past rivalry So these topics will be discussed on this episode. I hope you guys enjoy the show. Let's go ahead and get into it At his campaign kickoff event in pennsylvania Joe Biden outlined his vision for health care reform in america And I think to nobody's surprise He does not support medicare for all although to his credit He does have a plan and that plan is a public option Now if you'll recall back when he was vice president obama's administration also publicly supported a public option, although they didn't even propose it When they were talking about the affordable care act. So I don't think that Joe Biden has much credibility here but nonetheless he is basically telling Bernie Sanders To bring it on not necessarily Joe Biden, but his team and Bernie's team They've already kind of started this rivalry when it comes to the issue of health care and now they're competing to Prove to america Whose vision is better the more incrementalist moderate approach with biden or Bernie's plan which actually would solve The health care crisis in america and end the debate once and for all So as you can see you already know where I stand on this I think Bernie Sanders absolutely has the credibility needed on this issue But nonetheless, I want to share an article that was written by jeff stein of the washington post Where he kind of outlines the rivalry between these two candidates here. I think this is interesting So jeff stein writes Joe biden on monday endorsed a public option that would allow all americans to buy into a medicare like health insurance plan As allies of both the former vice president and 2020 presidential rival Senator bernie sanders begin to debate the democratic party's health care agenda Whether you're covered through your employer or on your own or not You should have the choice to buy into a public option plan for medicare your choice Biden said during a campaign event in pittsburgh if the insurance company isn't doing right by you You should have another choice Sanders has called for enrolling every american on the medicare program a single payer system And an aid to the campaign took a swipe at biden's decision to attend a private fundraiser that included health insurance executives last week Biden is also expected to say he shares with single payer activists The goal of universal coverage and lower health care costs But that he does not support medicare for all the advisor said he may reprise hillary clinton's argument in 2016 That her more incremental approach would build on the policies of the obama administration Rather than replacing the affordable care act with a single payer system We are all trying to get to a place where we achieve universal health care I think he sees it like that the advisor said but if they want to go after him and obama about their approach to health care Bring it on anyone defending the current dysfunctional system needs to explain Why the average family should have to pay 28 000 a year for health care while the ceo of independence health group Daniel hilferty made 4.8 million last year an aid to sanders campaign said in a statement So the first thing that I want to note is that the biden aid who was quoted here Is basically gaslighting people because apparently you know, he's trying to pay lip service to us and say look I agree with your goal that we need to lower health care costs and we need to get to 100 coverage But if you actually agreed with that then you would obviously opt for the policy that would put that into practice It's medicare for all that's the one way that you get to 100 coverage And the lowest health care costs So if you're not supporting that then you don't get to gaslight us and make us think that you share the same goal with us Because you don't your goal is actually at odds now again I want to remind you because I think this is incredibly relevant here to this conversation Joe biden already said that he supports a public option as did obama back in 2008 You didn't even put it in the affordable care act when we were debating health care reform. You didn't even propose it So you told us You support a public option. You then get elected. You have a super majority You didn't go for medicare for all and you didn't even go For a public option. Why should we believe you now? The answer is obvious We should not believe him because joe biden has no credibility here because I mean he launched his campaign by doing big money fundraisers one of which was with a health care industry executive And the reason why joe biden doesn't want robust health care reform Such as medicare for all is because he's afraid of the health insurance industry Because he knows that if he gets on board with medicare for all He would lose any donors from that industry that are thinking about donating to him Now contrast that with bernie sanders bernie sanders Isn't afraid of the health care industry. In fact, the opposite is true They're afraid of him because their stocks have tanked ever since bernie sanders Reintroduced his medicare for all bill and this also has worried investors and on top of that health insurance companies like anthem Who offer medicare advantage plans? They've actually increased benefits as a direct result of bernie's threats to do away with them because they know That people are on bernie sanders side specifically because They rip people off and because they're so greedy They shot themselves in the foot because every single american has experience with a health insurance company They do not like their health insurance company now when you look at public opinion polls You'd see that people don't want to lose their health insurance plan that they have But if you actually ask people why they support their health insurance It's not because the health insurance company that they have is giving them a phenomenal deal It's because they want to keep their doctor and they're worried about stability Now thankfully a majority of americans now support medicare for all largely due to bernie's relentless advocacy For medicare for all in fact even a majority of republicans now support medicare for all But yet we have a biden advisor Getting extremely cocky telling bernie's team to bring it on Are you sure you want that because you should be careful what you wish for Because who do you think americans are going to side with when it comes to the issue of health care? Who do you think the democratic party's base will side with in this debate? The guy who's been a champion of medicare for all for his whole life who has health insurance companies running scared Or the guy who surrendered Before the fight even began wouldn't even propose a public option because he was too afraid About what health insurance companies would think Joe biden has zero credibility when it comes to the issue of health care And i'm excited that there's this rivalry brewing because it's going to demonstrate That joe biden is not just weak on this issue But he's also a puppet of the health insurance industry Because he's not trying to come up with a policy that would appease the american people He's doing this so he can appease his donors who are holding fundraisers for him. And that's what this is about So i'm sorry. I'm going to side with the guy Who has the health insurance industry Shaking in their boots right now not the guy who capitulated back in 2009 We remember that joe biden when you and obama said that you support a public option For you to not even propose that with the affordable care act shows that you're a coward You capitulate when the fight doesn't even start you surrender before it begins And you don't even want to go up against the health insurance industry So if you want bernie seemed to bring it on Be careful what you wish for because i am definitely interested in seeing you two debate this You have zero credibility on this joe zero There have been numerous times over the course of the last couple of years when elizabeth warn Has disappointed me obviously we all knew that she showed that she isn't very courageous politically when she refused to endorse bernie sanders She did not go out to standing rock when water protectors were being brutalized by militarized police And on tyt when she was asked about some members of the democratic party being more Centrist more conservative more corporatist specifically when she was talking about joe manchin She offered up a spirited defense Of joe manchin who basically is just a democrat in name only he is functionally a republican So i've been frustrated with elizabeth warn and i've stated before that she lacks political courage because She's not willing to take on her own party now when you contrast her With someone like tulsi gabard who endorsed bernie who went to standing rock who is fighting against her own party It's easy to see that elizabeth warn does not have any political courage whatsoever. She Has essentially been spineless and i don't like to say that because it seems really harsh But for the most part she hasn't been willing to take a stand If for whatever reason that would make her fall out of favor with the party or if it would offend elites specifically democratic party elites However joe biden announced and she actually came out with a pretty strong criticism of him that It made me smile because she is slowly but surely Working to earn my respect back and i wanted to share this with you guys because i thought it was great Our disagreement is a matter of public record At a time when the biggest financial institutions in this country were trying to put the squeeze on millions of hardworking families Who were in bankruptcy because of medical problems job losses divorce and death in the family? Uh, there was nobody to stand up for them. I got in that fight because They just didn't have any and joe biden was on the side of the credit card companies It's all a matter of public record that was short but sweet and it's effective because Just that statement really tells you everything that you need to know about joe biden He had the opportunity to take a stand for the american people, but who did he side with? The credit card companies And i like how she's kind of preemptively disarming the people who argue that you shouldn't attack Other democrats and the way that she's disarming them Is essentially by saying look the disagreements that i have with joe biden are a matter of public records So this isn't an attack. I'm just stating what i've already said And there are already people saying that if you have a criticism of another democrat running for president You should bite your tongue like for example george takai put out a tweet saying you know I pledge to not criticize any democrat because that could bring down the eventual nominee and make them weaker against donald trump That is such a mealy mouthed way To look at politics You're essentially asking progressives to unilaterally disarm because we know that the media the establishment corporate democrats will relentlessly attack progressives So really what you're asking is for us To not criticize Other um politician, but we're not gonna do that That's what primaries are about you vet the candidates you criticize them And then whoever wins wins But if you don't actually vet these candidates if you don't criticize them for their record for substantive reasons You're denying voters the chance to know about these candidates We need the electorate to be informed going into the voting booth So they're able to make an educated decision and not just vote for joe biden because of name recognition Because of nostalgia for obama people need to know that as elizabeth warren points out He stood with the credit card companies Now what she's talking about here in particular is a bill from 2005 and as rachel frayson of the hill reports In 2005 biden voted for the bankruptcy abuse prevention and consumer protection act Critics have said the law enabled credit card companies to target people seeking bankruptcy protection And this is a bill that was sponsored by chuck grassley and signed into law by president george w bush If that doesn't speak to how terrible joe biden's record is Then i don't think anything else will but we don't even need just this one example He voted for the iraq war. He voted for nafta. He voted to repeal glast eagle joe biden has essentially Reliably been on the wrong side of every single issue So for us to Not point that out for people like elizabeth warren to not point that out Is preposterous If you're choosing to not criticize these candidates You're making them weaker going up against donald trump because would you rather them criticize someone like joe biden for this now and give him time to come up with a response Or would you rather this manifest during the uh 2020 general election If biden wins god forbid, but if he wins and then trump does his fake populism thing And then this comes back to bite biden in the ass wouldn't you want voters to know about this now? So ultimately They picked the best candidate. I mean, I don't get that but um I don't necessarily see as much pushback against warren criticizing biden here as i initially expected And i think it's because the establishment for the most part they feel safer with elizabeth warren And they don't necessarily view her as the threat that she really is yet because she's not polling at you know Top three or even top four But in the event she starts to move up Um in the event she were in bernie's position I think that they would have criticized her for speaking out against biden like this So kudos to her. I'm glad that she decided to speak up um, we can't Self censor under the guise of not wanting to weaken a candidate during a primary So i'm glad that warren is kind of bucking a party orthodoxy here And she's criticizing him because if you sided with the credit card companies, then um, sorry That's a pretty big mark against you. And that's just an objective fact Don't blame us for pointing out what joe biden did blame joe biden for having a garbage record in the first place I've said this once i'll say it again joe biden throughout history Has reliably been on the wrong side of basically every single issue Every single issue and even when it comes to issues that are no-brainers that a so-called progressive Should not have to think very much about he's taken The wrong side of the issue. He's been on the wrong side of history So for example a couple of weeks ago skin and published an article that talked about how he was functionally on the side of segregationists Because while he personally was against segregation He sought support from fervent segregationists in order to oppose busing Now on top of that he voted for nafta. He voted for the iraq war He wrote the crime bill and he's just been on the wrong side of pretty much every issue That's a no-brainer now you all know Where donald trump stands when it comes to one very specific specific issue and that is uh flag burning trump wants people to uh be punished legally for desecration of the flag Turns out joe biden had a similar stance back in 1989 rewrote the statute saying Burning the flag in and of itself as a crime period boom because if you look out there You know the thing that makes a frenchman french or an englishman english is their ethnicity It's not what form of government they happen to live under You can't define an american in terms anything other than the form of government that we live under And so it seems to me that making that symbol Give it in a special place A special unifying notion in times of peace as well as war Is an important and worthy thing to do and that's why I introduced the bill free speech I cannot yell fire in a crowded movie theater in the name of free speech I cannot take actions to incite a ride in the name of free speech So let's get clear here that there's nothing absolute about the first amendment or any other amendment Number two the court if you you live in a house that was part of the historic preservation act Even though you own that house you can't go in and knock out the front windows you own it You cannot stand in front of your house that you own that is protected as part of historic preservation and say In the name of protesting the decadence of america i'm burning this house down Because by law the house in and of itself cannot be changed It doesn't relate to the communicative impact That's why a statute is legal and that's why everyone from a liberal professor like larry tribe to Less liberal people like the dean of like the university of virginia law school and duke law school and others have come out and said You can do this by statute and it would be constitutional now That's bad um Does it mean that joe biden currently? Supports that position not necessarily, but i think that this video is important because it speaks to him having a very conservative past and being on the wrong side of another issue Now the reason why those clips were a little bit jump-cutty was because zayi jalani tweeted out in multiple videos and multiple tweets So i kind of just took all of those and created a compilation based on that He kind of stated his position and then there was a jump in between there where he was responding to a question by a caller about it And you know how this would or would not Violate the first amendment now It's funny that he says that you know This doesn't actually violate free speech because there are limits to freedom of speech and whatnot you can't yell fire in a crowded room and of course This is this is true, you know, no freedom is absolute but when it comes to this issue What i find especially alarming here is that he said all of this A month after the supreme court had already ruled on the constitutionality of this very issue Now the case i'm referring to is texas v johnson when as oyas explains in 1984 In front of the dallas city council gregory lee johnson burned an american flag as a means of protest against Reagan administration policies johnson was tried and convicted under a texas law Outlining flag desecration He was sentenced to one year in jail and assessed a two thousand dollar fine After the texas court of criminal appeals reversed the conviction the case went to the supreme court now before we get to the verdict here Just think about this he was sentenced to a year in jail and a two thousand dollar fine All because he burned a piece of material How insane is that How inherently totalitarian is that where you essentially Have to worship the state i mean that's It's bizarre. It's absolutely bizarre and on its face I think it's easy for anyone to see that that is against the first amendment Obviously flag desecration would fall under protected speech and can you guess how the supreme court held? Well in a five to four decision They agreed that yes flag burning and flag desecration That is protected speech and even scalia and anthony kennedy Were in the majority here now oyas continues saying in a five to four decision The court held that johnson's burning of the flag was protected expression under the first amendment The court found that johnson's actions fell into the category of expressive conduct and had a distinctively political nature The fact that an audience takes offense to certain ideas or expression The court found does not justify prohibitions of speech The court also held that state officials did not have the authority to designate symbols to be used to communicate only limited sets of messages Noting that if there is a bedrock principle underlying the first amendment It is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable So the court releases this decision and then a month later Joe biden was on c-span making the case as to why we need to criminalize Flag desecration now. What's interesting is that there were other individuals his colleagues that didn't want to just You know introduce legislation to do this because obviously the supreme court had already invalidated it so people who were really fervently in favor of Making desecration of the flag illegal proposed a constitutional amendment. So another issue that again to emphasize here I don't know if he still has this view. I hope he moved away from it But it's just one of many issues where Joe Biden was on the wrong side of history If you'll recall he wrote the 1994 crime bill He voted for the defense of marriage act which banned same-sex marriages at the federal level He supported nafta the iraq war the patriot act the repeal of glass deagle And that list is by no means a comprehensive list because there's also the anita hill situation There's also the lucy floras situation And I think the more serious one is anita hill where he was the chair of the senate judiciary committee And he stopped witnesses from testifying Other women who would have validated anita hill's testimony with evidence He didn't allow them to testify And he basically said look everything's fair game even embarrassing questions And he asked her What's the most embarrassing thing that um happened or that clarence thomas, you know Did to you or said to you i'm paraphrasing But basically something that you don't want to ask the victim of sexual harassment who's already been through enough Who probably doesn't feel comfortable testifying so Joe biden lacks a crucial thing That all presidential candidates should have and that is foresight. He can't tell when he's wrong He doesn't anticipate how history will judge him and this is coming back to bite him in the ass now So hopefully he moved away from this position, but nonetheless, I mean to take that stance It's just honestly really it's puzzling to me. I don't see why of all the issues to be concerned with That's affecting the world and the us You'd go for flag burning who gives a shit if it's offensive to you Suck it up snowflake. Okay. This is why I don't like How the left and really sjw's quote unquote on college campuses are always Attacked for being overly sensitive and needing, you know safe spaces Because if an sjw on a college campus is offended they protest But if a right wing or centrist sjw in congress is offended they make laws that actually ban speech So who's the real threat to free speech? Is it students on college campuses? Who will use their speech to combat speech that they don't like or is it the lawmakers who are constantly Attacking our free speech rights. It's bad enough that joe biden voted for the patriot act But um He was also against the first amendment as well. So this is reason one of 350 Why we should not allow joe biden to get anywhere near The nomination because if he wins Imagine how many people will be so disenchanted with another centrist who will just choose to stay home We saw how having a centrist at the top of the ticket panned out last time And you don't have to think too hard about what would happen if we did the same thing again So joe biden is an awful choice. And I hope that democrats Don't vote for him just because of name recognition and nostalgia for the obama years Let's move forward not look backwards at someone who clearly Is not the right person to be the leader of a democratic party base. That is increasingly progressive At bernie sanders 2020 campaign kickoff rally I want to remind you of a very specific criticism that former hillary clinton staffer Zerlina maxwell had on msnbc about bernie sanders speech But but look, um, there were a couple of times that you had a couple eye rolls and just Explain explain your thoughts as you were listening to bernie sanders. Look, I work for hillar clinton So I have a lot of there you go. That was it right there, uh bernie sanders. Um, but you know to be very serious about it I clocked it. He did not mention race or gender until 23 minutes into the speech And just for point of comparison I went back and looked at elizabeth warren's opening speech for example She mentions race and discrimination in the first paragraph. So that's a big difference Except bernie sanders actually did do what she claimed he did not do As willie chahid points out at the three minute mark He thanked shon king for his work on criminal justice reform at the six minute mark He discussed fighting trump's sexism and racism at the 13 minute mark. He discussed mass incarceration Now once she was called out and fact checked really she then kind of backtracked and stated Okay, I've rewatched since yesterday and while I can't acknowledge that I missed the passing line at six minutes I stand by my point since talking about criminal justice is not the same thing as talking about race and gender And if you don't get why bernie won't win again So obviously she refused to take the l even though she was thoroughly refuted And she claims look talking about criminal justice reform is not the same thing as talking about sex and gender except in the actual tweet by willy chahid that she quote tweeted when she responded there At the six minute mark bernie sanders did talk about racism and sexism specifically within the context of Fighting donald trump's racism and sexism So either she lacks reading or listening comprehension skills or she's just being purposefully obtuse So she can smear bernie sanders in any way possible And I will assume it's the latter because zerlina maxwell is a very intelligent person I think she knows what she's doing and she's trying to interpret what bernie sanders is saying in the least charitable way possible So she can make him look bad because she's a former clinton staffer and as she admitted in that glib You know, she has some feelings about this. So she doesn't have any credibility at all But nonetheless, she was still on bill mar show And they were talking about bernie's appearance at a recent she the people event Where he was actually booed when asked about the federal government's role in fighting white nationalism And when the hosts followed up because they didn't feel as if bernie sanders adequately answered the question He mentioned how he marched with mlk and he was subsequently booed because he brought that up And what a youtube channel called spitting back did was they actually fact checked her in real time As she talked about this on bill mar show and everything she says bernie should have done They play the clip of bernie sanders doing exactly what she said he didn't do Now to be clear here. She was talking specifically about bernie sanders answer about white nationalism But nonetheless, if she would have tuned in to see his full interview Everything she recommended that he do he did do throughout the course Of this interview and it's bizarre. So take a look at this compilation here because it it really speaks to How hacky zerlina maxwell is the women in the audience wanted to hear specifics and bernie sanders did not answer the question That's what the boos were for and that means by the way, not only specific plans and programs It means a fundamental change in the culture of this country Discrimination of all forms has got to end period and you do that Using the bully puppet and you use that doing legislation. What's it? He said answer? I think he needs to talk about specifics Like what what was the right answer? Let's talk about pay equity. We will not accept Discrimination in the workforce It means that we will end the absurdity of women in general making 80 cents on the dollar compared To men and minority women making a whole lot less than that When we talk about minority communities when we raise that federal minimum wage to a living wage of 15 bucks an hour You're going to do a way up with a lot of economic stress in this country. Let's talk about discrimination Let's talk about making sure that families no matter where they are No matter what color have quality education every person in this country regardless of color regardless of income Has the right to get a higher education because we're going to make public colleges and universities tuition free And we are going to very substantially End the burden of outrageous levels of student debt in this country access to affordable health care All the other issues that democrats talk about and tailor it do everything i can to help constituency Lead this country and when we talk about justice We are also talking about the massive levels of racial Disparities that exist in this country. It's not just that we need health care for all people We need to address the fact that infant mortality in the african-american community is two and a half times What it is in the white community and it sounds like you're demanding He say the exact words that are in your head. No, i'm demanding that he speak in more than platitudes as president of the united states i will appoint Supreme court justices and nominate Justices all across the board Who will represent the needs of people of color of working people? And who are prepared to believe and fight for justice Not just the people on top But i think what we can do is something fairly novel Is that after a member of the supreme court service for a certain period of time? Perhaps 12 years or so that that justice then rotates to an appeal squad. That'll give you some fresh blood I do believe this country needs a constitutional amendment in trying the rights of women. I do The political system in this country has has been the default. What do white men think? What do white working class men think and now that we have more representation and the electorate? We're going to be a majority minority country in 2046. And so now we actually have to have representation that reflects the electorate You're assuming about the issues and how they impact your assuming people of color My administration will look like america representatives from people who understand the pain and the struggle That working people and minorities are currently Feeling it will be an administration reflecting all of our people Who are prepared to stand up for economic social and racial justice And then within the midst of all of that income and wealth Disparity and a national level. We have racial disparities as well White families have 10 times the wealth of black families now. Believe it or not that video actually goes on longer So i'm going to link you to the full video by spitting back down below I'd also encourage you to follow the people who put together that compilation because that really was phenomenal work That was citizen journalism That really demonstrates how crucial it is in a mainstream media landscape that wouldn't necessarily do something like this Now to bill marr's credit. He actually kind of did push back against zerlina maxwell But it really goes to show you that she's looking for reasons to criticize bernie sanders She's not trying to be objective. She has a very specific goal. It is to bring down bernie sanders No matter what doesn't matter if i interpret him, you know Disingenuously it doesn't matter if i smear him I just wanted to feed bernie and that is my number one goal And i think it's really rich that of all people a former clinton staffer said he should answer with more specificity and not just give off platitudes You supported hillary clinton You have no Room to talk here. You don't have a single leg to stand on because your candidate. What was her uh Slogan again. I'm with her stronger together hillary had nothing but platitudes She talked less about policy than other Democrats so i mean how can you even say with a straight face that bernie should lay off the platitudes when you supported hillary clinton and worked for her Why would you want to be so brazenly hacky if Your whole job as a journalist and as a political commentator is to maintain legitimacy So people take what you say seriously now again to be fair to zerlina maxwell something she'd never do to bernie She was talking about things she would have liked in bernie sanders answer about white supremacy that specific question But nonetheless in a broader context one of her criticisms about bernie's He doesn't really address these key issues here that she was touching on but throughout the course of what when she was criticizing bernie What the spinning back youtube channel demonstrated with that compilation was that He has been talking about these things People are so anti bernie that they are willing to Lob trumping attacks against him things that are easily Debunkable if you just watch what bernie sanders said now getting back to bernie sanders and him being booed I'm not necessarily concerned with bernie sanders being booed because if he's booed at the audience Does it like what he has to say then that just means that he's going to have to be more introspective And evolve based on what they said because back in 2016 when he was at the net roots nation conference and he was Shouted down basically when protesters wanted him to specifically say the names of women who were killed by police I think that overall That was a net benefit because it really helped bernie sanders To craft his message in a way that shows people That he's listening that showed those black lives matter protesters that he was taking what they had to say seriously So even if you know if I were bernie I would want to bring up the fact that I marched with mlk every single day Because that's such an amazing fact I still can understand why people would say look you can't use that as a crutch. You need to talk about specific policies But with that being said, um He did talk about a lot of specific policies Now since we talked about you know this clip here where bernie sanders was booed and I criticized, you know Lena max welfer not necessarily I guess you can say um having a good faith description of what happened at that event I'll just play you the full clip. I'll give you the full context so you can decide for yourself Whether or not bernie sanders should have been booed overall I think he probably should not have been booed but nonetheless towards the end here You're gonna see that he actually won over most of the audience after he kind of lost them because they wanted a specific answer And he wasn't answering to their liking and then he gave them a specific answer and then they Liked what he had to say So i'll leave you with the clip here that um, I think it's important so you can decide for yourself Um and not get what political hacks want you to think happened out of this event What do you believe is the federal government's role to fight against the rise of white nationalism and white terrorist acts And how do you plan to lead on that in your first year as president? First of all, but we have got to make it very clear That the type of demagoguery we are seeing from the trump administration Is not what this country is about And I will do everything that I can to help lead this country In a direction that ends all forms of discrimination racial discrimination gender discrimination and discrimination based on people's sexual orientation I am the son of an immigrant the proud son of an immigrant And I will do everything that I can to make sure that we pass finally in this country comprehensive immigration reform and a path toward citizenship That we provide immediate legal protection to the 1.8 million young people eligible for the DACA program So the goal that we have got to establish Is to bring our people together around an agenda that speaks to all people And that means guaranteeing health care to every man woman and child as a right not a privilege And I'm proud to have led the effort to fight for a Medicare for all single payer program It means understanding that when we talk about minority communities When we raise that federal minimum wage to a living wage of 15 bucks an hour You're going to do a way up with a lot of economic stress in this country So those are some of the things that I think we've got to do and let me just follow up senator The core of the question is about as president, what would you do with the rise of white supremacist violence to protect our communities? absolutely You know as somebody who I know I date myself a little bit here, but I Actually was at the March on Washington with dr. King back in 1963 And as somebody Who actively supported jesse jackson's campaign as one of the few white elected officials to do so in 88 I have dedicated my life To the fight against racism And sexism and discrimination of all forms and as president of the united states at the very top of our agenda Will be the understanding that discrimination of all forms has got to end period And you do that using the bully public and you use that doing legislation If somebody wants to go around perpetrating hate crimes that person will pay a very very heavy price indeed Thank you And I think what the questioner is getting at is a phenomenon that is actually global. We're seeing it throughout western europe as well As as influx of immigrants. Yes Come in you're seeing the same kinds of rise white nationalism. Well, let me just say word on that. That's correct Yeah, so as president, what would you do to return the us to global leadership on that issue? Well, you reverse exactly what trump is doing Trump is a cowardly authoritarian president Who is trying? He hides the reality That he has tried to throw 30 plus million people off healthcare give huge tax breaks to billionaires cut medicare cut medicate and education You can't win an election doing that. So what do you do? You do what demagogues in europe and in this country have always done you scapegoat You go after immigrants you go after people of color you go after minorities you say those people are the problem It's not wall street. It's not the drug companies. It's not the insurance companies. It is undocumented immigrants That is demagoguery. You're right. It exists in this country It exists all over the world and as president of the united states Our foreign policy will not be as the current one is to support authoritarian bigots all over the country It will be a policy of supporting democracy and human rights Well, I think it's safe to say that the 2020 democratic party primary is starting the heat up because the gloves are now officially coming off Because as you all know last week once joe biden announced that he's running for president Elizabeth Warren was quick to point out that he sided with the credit card companies And now bernie sanders is also contrasting his record with joe biden's and you know, there are people who Are essentially begging Candidates not to criticize each other. They're begging the base not to criticize the candidates I'm talking about individuals like george takai and elissa mulano But you've got to understand that primaries are the place where we kind of have the candidates duke it out And they put their records up against everyone else's because if you don't do that Then you have a candidate that hasn't been properly vetted that hasn't been tested And you're making them weaker Going into the general And this idea that you can somehow weaken a candidate by criticizing them during a primary is completely flawed because as we all saw Every single republican in 2016 was against donald trump. The republican party establishment was against donald trump They had you know mit romney come out to attack him and he won Back in 2008 the primary between obama and hillary clinton was extremely heated and obama went on to win So just because hillary clinton lost after the primary in 2016 was extremely brutal Doesn't mean that that is going to be the norm because primaries are exactly where the candidates are supposed to duke it out so People who are voting go into the voting booth Making an educated decision knowing where all of the candidates stand Who's strongest on this area and weakest on that area? This is what it's all about So with that being said bernie sanders was asked a very specific question about joe biden and he took this opportunity To contrast his record with joe biden's and essentially he explained in a very polite way How abysmal joe biden's record is former vice president biden at his first campaign event today Was in front of firefighters union. Obviously Critical organized labor is critical support in in a democratic primary. Are you concerned that that biden can make inroads there that biden has a leg up there Well, look i'm running against i think 19 other people. So i'm concerned about everybody But i think when people take a look at my record Versus vice president biden's record. I helped lead the fight against nafta. He voted for nafta I helped lead the fight against pncr with china. He voted for it I Strongly opposed the trans specific partnership. He supported it. I voted against the war in iraq. He voted for it So i think what i hope Anderson what this campaign is about and i got to tell you i like joe biden joe is a friend of mine But i think what we need to do with all of the candidates have a Issue oriented campaign not personal attacks But talk about what we have done in our political lives what we want to do as president And how we're going to transform our economy so that it works for all of us and not just the 1 percent so I think that the number one thing that really stood out to me was how bernie sanders was choosing his words Very carefully Because back in 2016 all he did Was call out hillary clinton's bad record. He didn't even want To talk about the more scandalous aspects about her campaign. He said i'm tired of hearing About your damn emails because he really wanted to have a policy based argument But regardless even if he didn't fully take the gloves off and even though he obviously pulled punches They accused him of essentially maligning her character For pointing out the objectively Antiprogressive aspects of her record So knowing that you can tell how he's watching his words here and he's trying to go out of his way To be charitable to joe biden and say look i'm friends with joe biden You know, we don't need to make this about personal attacks Let's just look at each other's record and you can tell that He knows he has to be extra cautious because the democratic party establishment Is going to take anything he says That could possibly be construed as an attack and run with it and try to demonize him and try to say Oh, well, look, he's spoiling another primary. I mean, what was it in january when david brock wrote an article for nbc news Saying we shouldn't let bernie sanders and his supporters spoil another democratic primary You know as if they weren't the ones who were arbitrarily smearing bernie sanders and smearing his supporters as bernie bros And they're still doing it. So to me the way that I view this is all of these pleas from people Maybe not necessarily celebrities, but more so from the establishment and pundit class their pleas For candidates to not attack each other really is This implicit idea that they're trying to promote that really it's progressives that should Unilaterally disarm because really they're gonna continue attacking bernie. They're gonna continue attacking his support base But if we hit back Then they're going to say see I told you they were being aggressive So i'm not gonna fall for that and I don't think the candidates should either and I think that elizabeth warn And bernie sanders should go out of their way to draw comparisons between their records And the records of the other other candidates because their records are just objectively better And I actually wish Tulsi gabard Would do this more as well Like I really would like to see her name drop the other candidates because I feel as if tulsi gabard She has the credibility that bernie sanders and elizabeth warn has and when you're behind in the polls One way that you kind of boost your name recognition At least nationally is you criticize the other candidates So I think that if she took the gloves off as well Like bernie and elizabeth warn she could maybe benefit from that So I really hope that she does that because tulsi gabard has an excellent case to be made As for why she's better than almost every single candidate running Um So with that being said I do want to share a clip from a different interview with cnn that bernie sanders did Now what's interesting and what I want you to pay attention to is that in this clip The cnn host is going to prime bernie sanders before he answers the question that she's going to ask him So what she's going to do is she's going to show bernie sanders a poll And then once he's primed to think about the polling results when responding He's then going to be asked whether or not he should be focusing on the candidate's differences Or who's best to be donald trump now the underlying reason why she showed you the poll in the first place Is to get you to think oh well joe biden has a pretty significant lead currently and they're going to Tastantly promote this idea that look biden's the frontrunner. So should we really be comparing records? Should you really be talking about how shitty joe biden's record is if he's probably going to be the one to Go up against donald trump shouldn't we be talking about who can beat donald trump and essentially What the host here is trying to promote and prime people to think about even if it's in a very Covert insidious way is why bernie maybe he shouldn't Compare his record to joe biden's but bernie's going to reject that premise And he's going to go on to do what he did in the last interview that you just saw with anderson guber But what you're going to see here is that as he starts talking about How his record is just objectively better than joe biden's the cnn host is then going to cut bernie off And forced him to be on the defensive And this really is clever because this is Top tier propaganda this host is incredibly talented. So take a look senator Let me turn the page and just ask you about i'm sure you've seen our new scene and pull out today It shows you and former vice president joe biden as the frontrunners in this this current race And my question to you is will your campaign be more about the contrast that you've clearly been drawing with biden Or will it be more focused on who can best defeat president trump? Well, I think both to be honest with you look in my view Donald trump is the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country. He's a pathological liar He's a racist the sexist the homophobe a xenophobe. This is somebody who should not be president I will do everything I can if i'm the democratic nominee to defeat him and I will support if I lose Somebody else whether joe whether it's somebody else. We're going to defeat Uh, Donald trump But on the other hand, I think what I want to see in the democratic primary is not You know personal attacks or all any of that stuff What I want to see is an issue oriented campaign and joe and I Have very different pasts in terms of how we have voted and very different vision for the future And that is something that we should be discussing for example, all right I voted against the war in iraq in fact helped lead the opposition to what turned out to be the worst foreign Policy disaster in the modern history of america joe voted for it. I voted against a nafta I voted against permanent normal trade relations with china to trade agreements Which cost us millions of good paying jobs joe supported those agreements I voted against the deregulation of wall street Joe supported that legislation which I think you know many people agree with me some don't led to the wall street collapse Of 2008 senator, let me jump in because I hear you on the on the Contrast and there are a number of them But the one thing that both of you voted for and what what Joe biden helped write is the 1994 crime bill Even former president bill clinton who signed it into law says it went too far, right? It expanded mandatory minimums and boosted the nation's prison population It disproportionately impacted african americans in hispanics So my question to you senator sanders is do you regret that vote? Let me give you my answer Go to youtube today and find out what I said Literally, I'm looking at you right now senator. Tell me if you were a second I voted for that bill because it included the violence against women's act and included a ban on assault weapons And brook you would be asking me today senator. Why did you not vote for a ban on assault weapons? Why did you vote against i'm asking you today if you regret your votes what I Sometimes you have legislation which includes very good stuff and very bad stuff that legislation included very bad stuff I had to make the choice whether I voted to ban assault weapons something that I promised the people of vermont I would And I also had to vote to make sure that we had a violence against women Provision in there if you see what I said on the floor at that time. I talked about mass incarceration I talked about capital punishment. So sometimes in the real world in the congress You've got big pieces of legislation that have bad stuff and god knows That legislation had bad stuff and right now I'm one of the leaders in the fight for criminal justice Reform so we don't have more people in jail than any other major country on earth So look, I've got to give the CNN host credit there not in a good way But in a bad way she is a very clever and talented propagandist because she saw that Bernie sanders didn't take the bait that you put out for him Essentially saying look shouldn't we focus on beating donald trump and who's most qualified to take on donald trump? And essentially bernie shouldn't you shut up about how bad biden's record is? But he chose to just talk about how his record is better than joe biden's record. And what does she do? She cuts him off And backs bernie into a corner and forces him To defend himself because what bernie was doing was he was explaining things that joe biden needs to answer for Essentially putting joe biden on the defensive. And then what did that host do? She swooped in saved biden cut bernie off and made bernie Explain himself Now you can see that this wasn't extremely brazen because the host also tried to pretend as if she was trying to be fair Bernie you voted for the crime bill as did joe biden. In fact, he wrote the crime bill But you voted for the crime bill this led to mass incarceration explain yourself And then bernie of course had to explain himself And i'm not going to say bernie shouldn't explain himself here But if you do go back to the youtube videos and look at what he was saying back then He was not defending the crime bill In fact, bernie sanders was sounding the alarm But the reason why bernie sanders voted for the crime bill as he stated in that video is because it included provisions That banned assault weapons and also included You know, um protections for violence against women now as bernie pointed out there cleverly So is that if he didn't vote for the crime bill then the host would be asking well, why did you Vote against this provision that banned violence against women. Why are you so pro gun bernie? so i think that bernie sanders is Understanding what's happening here in real time as she's posing these biased questions But you've got to understand here and really I wish that the hosts here would educate viewers more Sometimes when you have a piece of legislation that isn't necessarily popular or supported by the entirety of your caucus What you need to do is you need to put things in that bill That would lure people who are reluctant to support it in So bernie sanders Did not support the crime bill it was introduced twice remember back in 1991 and 1994 But he sounded the alarms both times So what did they do to get it passed in 1994 once it couldn't muster enough support back in 1991? They included provisions that would lure people like bernie sanders in the violence against women provision The clause to ban assault weapons and this is actually a really clever Legislative tactic because if you want your legislation to pick up steam and some people Are vocalizing concerns Well, if you're not willing to amend that bill to kind of appease their concerns What you can do is take issues that they care about and include it in that bill To kind of get them on board and that's exactly what joe biden cleverly did to his credit And that's why bernie sanders voted for the crime bill now that doesn't excuse bernie's vote Of course, he still needs to explain. There's still room for nuance here But with that being said just take a step back and acknowledge what that cnn host did It was brilliant credits are her for being An amazing propagandist she disarmed bernie's argument against joe biden's past and made him defend his own past That's just good propaganda. I mean, um, it's it's really disingenuous, but nonetheless You know Bernie sanders really had no choice but to defend his record there So look at the end of the day It's important for candidates to draw these contrasts between each other And I've always maintained that we don't need to lob these ad hominem attacks at the candidates They shouldn't resort to character attacks on each other and it really didn't go that far Back in 2016 in spite of what people will say Now people will accuse bernie sanders supporters of maligning hillary clinton's character because we said that that she was corrupt But this was based on the facts There were numerous instances where she took money from a particular special interest and then did their bidding That's corruption. So, of course, we should avoid personal attacks We shouldn't critique someone for their personality, but in the event there are real differences between the candidates Unquestionably you should call them out So bernie and elizabeth warren are right here and anyone who says otherwise are wrong I hope that elizabeth or not elizabeth warren, but tulsi gabber joins them because she also has a great record For the most part that she can put up against other people and possibly Climb a little bit in the polls if she actually utilized this same strategy because I think that elizabeth warren's people know And political scientists in general know that if you're behind in the polls, what do you do? You attack the frontrunner and since bernie and warren are both kind of behind in the polls You attack the frontrunner or not necessarily attack. That's too strong of a word But you point out differences between their record and your record It's why before biden announced pete buddha judge was attacking bernie sanders because he was the frontrunner So I hope that candidates who I like namely tulsi gabbert also replicate this strategy because I think it could help her In terms of name recognition and get her numbers up So as you all know last week bernie sanders took a pretty bad beating from the press and from the g.o.p Namely because of his position on voting rights And his belief that felons should be allowed to vote while they're still incarcerated now Is his position the morally justifiable one? Absolutely However, I do think it's important for us to admit that it's still a politically toxic position to take In a media landscape where pretty much every unpopular opinion will be susceptible to sensationalism and smear attacks Now we saw what happened at the scene in town hall He was asked if his position on universal suffrage would extend to people like the boston bomber which the media obviously had a field day with because They try to make it seem as if bernie sanders was specifically advocating for this position Because he had some weird affinity for the boston bomber, but I mean we all know as supporters of bernie sanders He didn't take this position originally because he loves the boston bomber and he loves psychopaths He took this position because he sees how racially biased Our criminal justice system is and how disenfranchising felons is just one of many ways That our system disenfranchises black and brown americans and by agreeing that felons should be allowed to vote You're acknowledging that black and brown people are affected the most by mass incarceration in our nation's prison industrial complex So by advocating for this position, you're sensitive to Institutional racism and the reality of how our system works and how it specifically Targets people of color However, with that being said, I'm just objectively speaking I don't think bernie sanders answered that question in an ideal way However, it's been about a week. He's had some time to think about it and he's had A little bit of time to mull over how he's going to try to reclaim this narrative away from the g.o.p And away from the mainstream media And he came up with something that i've got to give him credit for It's pretty damn clever So here's what he's doing to take back the narrative in an op-ed for usa today Bernie sanders writes everyone deserves the right to vote Even felons like paul manifold and michael cohen now before we get to the article here Just take a moment and think about how clever that is We're no longer talking about voting rights in terms of the boston bomb or we're talking about voting rights In terms of allowing paul manifold and michael cohen To vote Now is this really the conversation that bernie sanders wants to be having? Of course not because he wants to talk about the real reason why we should allow felons to vote It's because this is an issue related to criminal justice and institutional racism But with that being said if republicans are gonna play this game Where they try to straw man bernie sanders and make it seem as if he specifically wants felons to be allowed to vote Just so the boston bomber can be allowed to vote. Well now he's forcing them To acknowledge that this isn't really about the boston bomber This is just about being principled in my stand that people should be allowed to vote So republicans do you not think that michael uh cohen and paul manifold should be allowed to vote? I like it now when you actually dive into the article itself He is a lot more nuanced and here's what he writes I have been attacked in recent days by president trump and others for my conviction that people who are incarcerated should be given the right to vote I make no apologies for that position Our country has had a long and shameful history of voter suppression at our founding despite rhetoric to the contrary Only land owning white males were given the right to participate in our democracy Lower income people women native americans african americans and young people were excluded We have been engaged in an ongoing 243 year project to expand participation in our democracy Thankfully, we have made much progress in that struggle But our work is not done not even close if we are serious about calling ourselves a democracy We must firmly establish that the right to vote is an inalienable and universal principle that applies to all american citizens 18 years and older Period as american citizens all of us are entitled to freedom of speech freedom of religion Freedom of assembly and all other freedoms enshrined in our bill of rights. We are also entitled to vote Yes, even if trumps former campaign manager and personal lawyer end up in jail They should still be able to vote regardless of who they cast their vote for Indeed our present day crisis of mass incarceration has become a tool of voter suppression Today over 4.5 million americans disproportionately people of color Have lost their right to vote because they have served time in jail or prison for a felony conviction It goes without saying that someone who commits a serious crime must pay his or her debt to society But punishment for a crime or keeping dangerous people behind bars must not cause people to lose their rights to citizenship It should not cause them to lose their right to vote This should not devolve into a debate about whether certain people are quote good enough to have the right to vote Voting is not a privilege. It is a right in my view The crooks on wall street who caused the great recession of 2008 that hurt millions of americans are not good people But they have the right to vote and it should never be taken away The reason why this issue is so important right now Is that trump and cowardly republican politicians all over this country are working overtime to suppress the vote Instead of trying to increase voter turnout They are making it harder for people to participate in the political process in florida The republican legislature is trying to undermine the will of 64 of people who voted to re-enfranchise formerly incarcerated people In georgia We have a republican governor who took office by instituting barriers to voting for people of color In tennessee the republican legislature is trying to shut down groups who do voter registration work In new hampshire and iowa the republicans have tried to make it harder for college students to vote The point here is simple at a time when voting suppression is taking place all across the country We must make it clear that casting a ballot for american citizens is not a privilege It is a right if you're an american citizen who is 18 years or older You must be able to vote whether you're in jail or not So i think that this op-ed does a number of things first of all It shifts the conversation away from the boston bomber And onto a more nuanced conversation And really he name drops paul maniforte and michael cohen Specifically So we're talking about them as opposed to the boston bomber But once he kind of ropes you in with that catchy title Then he goes on to explain in a very detailed and thorough way Why we need to allow felons The right to vote people to vote in prison if you truly believe this is an inaliable right then we should extend suffrage Universally now also what this does which i think is important Is it disarms this republican line of attack against him that he only wants people in prison to be allowed to vote because they're most likely To vote for democrats what he's saying here is no look even people like paul maniforte and michael cohen who obviously wouldn't vote for me They'd vote for donald trump We should let them vote too because this isn't about who they're going to vote for This is about the principle of democracy And i love how republicans completely miss the irony because as they institute all of these arbitrary racist quite frankly voter ID laws They're doing that specifically to decrease voter turnout They are creating barriers to voting so that way people don't turn out as much and poor people of color Don't come out to vote and those people are overwhelmingly likely to vote for democrats So they're essentially projecting they're saying that bernie is trying to tweak the voting laws To give himself the edge when that's what they do all the time So i think that this was a really important article for bernie sanders to write and even if it may not be The perfect solution to get the media and republicans off of his back I can tell that it kind of worked and i'll tell you why i think it worked so in an interview on cnn Which was a pretty combative interview for the most part if you watched the whole thing You can see that the way that the cnn host questioned him here Was very different. It was no longer about you know trying to get bernie to explain Why he thinks the boston bomber should be allowed to vote So i'm going to play that clip for you and also take note of the quick jab that bernie throws in against media here Speaking of jail speaking of jail speaking of incarceration. I read your opinion piece I mean today you wrote this opinion piece usa today everyone can go read it On why you think felons deserve the right to vote and you point out in Middle part through the piece that that over 4.5 million americans Disproportionately people of color have lost their right to vote because they've served time and so senator on this on this issue Only 28 percent of democrats or democratic leaners say that this is very important to them That the candidate that they support take this position and i just wanted to ask you why is this so important to you and your campaign Well brook. I think you know how politics works. I was asked that as in a question In fact, I didn't come up with it. I asked the question. I gave an answer And I think we should do what canada does what israel does with many countries around the world Do and that is to separate if somebody commits a serious crime They're going to go to jail and if they're violent people they may spend the rest of their lives in jail That's the way it is you pay a price when you commit a crime But this is what I believe At a time when the republican party and donald trump are working overtime to suppress the vote To make it harder for people of color poor people young people to vote We have got to make it clear in my view that if you are an american citizen Even if you do something terrible, even if you're a bad person We cannot take away your right to vote whether you're in jail Or whether you left jail Clearly what republicans are doing is trying to deny people of color the right to vote and this is an issue I think we have to address head on so even if you are in jail even democrats disagree with you I mean you i'm sure you saw what kory bucker said Yeah, but let me say this brook four years ago people disagreed with me on medicare 4 raising the minimum wage the $15 an hour Criminal justice reform spending a trillion dollars on rebuilding our infrastructure people disagreed with me They'll be disagree with me now But you know what i will tell you what i think and that is if you're a citizen of this country You have the right to vote and i will oppose all efforts to try to deny americans the right to participate in our democracy So now they're essentially Objecting to this position that bernie sanders is taking because it's not popular So the line of attack has shifted which tells me that bernie sanders op-ed here accomplished What he hoped it would accomplish at least you know thus far judging by this one anecdote But what i find interesting is that just above Allowing felons the right to vote is reparations in terms of one of two Least popular issues among the democratic party space, but just a couple of months ago They were attacking bernie because he didn't come out in favor of reparations But now they're attacking him Because he's taking the position of a policy that's not popular But back then they were attacking him because he didn't come out in favor of a policy That's obviously not very popular. So do you understand what this tells me is that they're not going to stop attacking bernie sanders He's never going to Silence all of their criticism. It's just going to change They're going to be able to adapt and it doesn't matter what bernie sanders does or doesn't do throughout the course of this campaign Because they're going to attack him regardless because their goal isn't to educate voters It's to take down bernie sanders and sabotage his campaign at all costs but nonetheless the point of Getting his critics to shut up about the boston bomber was really important And I think that that you know it demonstrated the success of his op-ed here However, notice the jab that he took at the cnn host because this was never really bernie sanders most salient issue because Just strategically speaking you never want to prop up the policies that you have that you know aren't very popular you kind of endorse those ideas or you state your position on those ideas But you kind of put them on the back burner and you promote the ideas that you know are more popular That's just good politics But he took a jab at the cnn host because he said look you know how politics works I was asked about this and I responded to this question I just answered Truthfully and now you all are trying to make it seem this isn't him saying this but this is the point He was trying to get across now. You're trying to make it seem as if i'm going to die on this hill I support this position But my entire campaign is based on universal redistributive policies That would help the middle class survive and fix the country and unrig the economy And unrig you know our racist criminal justice system. So by and large I hope that this at least at a minimum puts a cap on some of the criticism and hate bernie was receiving with regard to this issue But we'll have to wait and see either way, you know, as I stated, they're not going to stop criticizing him They're just going to adapt their critiques and smears are going to evolve with time And as I've stated before they're just going to move on to something else If they think it's going to be more effective at bringing down his numbers Um, and we're going to see this continuously throughout the course of his campaign So I think you guys all know how I personally feel about mayer pete I am not a fan. I don't think he's the worst candidate ever But for the most part, I think he's just another centrist neoliberal Who's trying to convince democratic party primary voters that he's more progressive than he actually is However, whenever I criticize pete buddha judge, it's always based on policy substance if I disagree with him, it's specifically because he Either supports or does not support a policy. I want him to support However, republicans Seemingly believe he is a huge threat and as a result, they have targeted him lately Now because republicans have zero policy substance whatsoever, they can't actually Lob a thoughtful criticism at pete buddha judge. So instead, how are they choosing to uh, Criticize him and try to bring him down Like this Thank you Yeah, the good news is The condition of my soul is in the hands of god, but the iowa caucuses are up to you Yeah, I mean, I think that pete handled that really well I would probably be a lot more rude to that idiot and you know, it's not just this one heckler Who's a standout? There are other republicans who are relatively prominent in the realm of politics Who are using the same homophobic line of attack against pete buddha judge? For example, franklin graham Vocalized his disgust with the fact that the first prominent gay presidential candidate Uh exists. He tweeted out mayor buddha judge says he's a gay christian as a christian I believe the bible which defines homosexuality as sin Something to be repentant of not something to be flaunted praised or politicized The bible says marriage is between a man and a woman not two men not two women Oh, okay. Well, thank you so much franklin. I'm sure that that's the first time pete has heard that before But since you told him that the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman Not a man and a man or a woman or a woman That's totally going to change his mind now. He's never heard that before. I'm sure I mean these people are so fucking stupid They're so stupid Because you have this superstitious Moorly bankrupt holy book that you abide by You believe that we should all acquiesce and follow your beliefs, but We reject your religion. I don't accept your religion. I don't subscribe to the holy book that you follow I'm an atheist But if you actually want to live in a country where the government imposes its homophobic views on its citizens There's no shortage of countries you can move to you can go to saudi arabia franklin graham Where they have the same views as you have about homosexuality And they kill people for being gay So if you don't like that gay people exist and they're now running for president and they're fighting for equality Move to saudi arabia. So do you understand like you would think that we've reached this state in america where You know, somebody can run for president who's gay and we don't really focus on that We focus on the policy substance But people are still very homophobic you could have asked any gay person They they would have still told you that but it's a little bit disheartening to see that Homophobia is still flaunted in such an open way. It's a little bit soul-crushing. You know, i'm not gonna lie about that Now on top of the brazen homophobia And bigotry that pete buddha judge is putting up with Well, there's another line of attack that republicans are using not necessarily the republican party But individuals who are pro republican people in the realm of politics And i'm talking about jacob wool who is perhaps the gop's most notorious and dumbest smear merchant Who not only attempted to love false sexual assault allegations against robert moeller But he also faked death threats against himself and he's now turned his attention to mayor pete And what is he doing? Well, he's trying to fabricate false sexual assault allegations Against pete buddha judge. I mean how disgusting and morally reprehensible of a person do you have to be? to make up this Claim of sexual assault, which you know could ruin someone's life, but you don't like them so fuck them And this all kind of started went on monday There was this medium post that mysteriously appeared where somebody claims that mayor pete buddha judge had sexually assaulted them Now I saw this and my bullshit detector went off immediately Because anytime you see something like this that isn't vetted by a real journalist That just seemingly appears out of nowhere by this new account The red flags in your mind should be going off So I think most people smelled the bullshit here from a mile away And what was later revealed by the daily beast who managed to uncover what was going on Was that this was all part of a larger coordinated effort To smear pete buddha judge in the most disgusting way imaginable So as the daily beasts lachlan marquet kevin polson and noah shatman explains A pair of right wing provoca tours are being accused of attempting to recruit young republican men To level false allegations of sexual assault Against democratic presidential candidate pete buddha judge the details of the operatives attempt emerged as one man suddenly Surfaced with a vague and uncooperated allegation that buddha judge had assaulted him The claim was retracted hours later a republican source told the daily beast that lobbyist jack berkman and internet troll jacob wall Approached him last week to try to convince him to falsely accuse buddha judge the mayor of south bend indiana Of engaging him sexually while he was too drunk to consent The source who spoke to the daily beast said berkman and wall made clear that their goal was to nickap buddha judge's momentum in the 2020 presidential race the men asked to remain anonymous out of a concern That the resulting publicity might imperil his employment and because he said wall and berkman have a reputation for vindictiveness But the source provided the daily beast with a surreptitious audio recording of a meeting which corroborates his account In it wall appears to refer to buddha judge as a terminal threat to president trump's re-election next year On monday a separate individual using the name of hunter kelly published a post on the site medium In which he alleged that buddha judge sexually assaulted him in february That post was tweeted out by david wall Jacob's father and quickly rewritten by the site big league politics Which is known as a landing ground for right wing conspiracy theories kelly supposed medium and twitter accounts both say they were created this month his facebook page included Several posts lauding trump and criticizing hillary clinton He appears to have responded to jacob wall's posts on instagram in the past The daily beast reached out to kelly on a cell phone listed to him in the student directory at his michigan college Told we were reporting on apparent efforts by jacob wall and jack berkman to drum up false sexual assault allegations Against buddha judge kelly replied i was unaware this was happening But yes, it is true kelly wrote that he did not control the newly created medium and twitter accounts that posted the allegations under his name When asked if he could verify his identity He texted the daily beast a selfie that matched the photo scene on medium and on kelly's long-standing facebook accounts Here is a selfie of me. Sorry. I have been crying. He wrote today and the promises made didn't go as planned kelly declined to provide more details But two hours later he posted a message on his facebook timeline headed i was not sexually assaulted So the guy who originally made that medium post Accusing peep buddha judge of sexually assaulting him claimed that that wasn't actually him who wrote it and It was this gigantic debacle and it's another fabricated sexual assault case that blew up in jacob wall's face And this isn't the first time he's just fabricated stories out of thin air because him and one of his colleagues laura lumar is Relentlessly pushing this story that is not cooperated by anyone About how ilhan omar came to america by marrying her brother so this guy is nothing more than a notorious smear merchant and He needs to be prosecuted for this like these are claims that he's leveling against people That can ruin their lives This can ruin their lives and the gop if you'll recall They were screeching at the top of their lungs back in november when we were vetting serious allegations against Then supreme court nominee brett cavanaugh. Well, as you can see here if they're false They often don't pan out and the people who are creating these false allegations are often discovered But for republicans to come out and be so worried about false allegations Are they gonna condemn jacob wall here and it wasn't just big league politics Who um reported on this there were other right wing websites that did the same Info wars unsurprisingly picked up the medium post So i mean think about this think about how bad this is and how this is journalistic malpractice To just report on a medium post that hasn't been vetted hasn't been cooperated by any witnesses This is horrible yellow journalism and any outlet that reports on something like this Should absolutely be permanently discredited because Evidence is important But as we can see here Um, this is what the uh First gay presidential candidate has to deal with Um homophobia brazen homophobia and false claims of sexual assault. It is Disgusting absolutely disgusting now to be fair I don't think you know just because pete buddha judge is gay that jacob wall decided to fabricate This sexual assault claim against him. I think he'd probably do this to anyone who he thought posed a threat against donald trump But with that being said, you know, it makes These claims a little bit easier to be believed because what are some of the stereotypes about gay men? They're overly promiscuous They're always sleeping around and it doesn't matter that pete buddha judge is a married gay man You know, this is believable because our society Believes, you know, these default homophobic narratives that a gay man is perfectly capable of um, not only cheating on his husband But sexually assaulting someone because they're all just a bunch of horn dogs You know going around and screwing Anything with legs. It is morally reprehensible um, so I mean if you're going to criticize pete buddha judge then You can do so by not completely impugning his character in the most disgusting Fucking way possible So this is absolutely disgusting and I I'm honestly speechless. I mean it's not surprising But it's really it's still grotesque And it really is jarring to see How dirty republicans are willing to get now again, this isn't necessarily the the GOP itself But it is a smear merchant who Does propaganda for the GOP and is willing to do anything go to any length to defeat anyone deemed a threat to The holy one Donald trump. So here's the note that I'll end on It's time for jacob wall to be prosecuted because these false accusations These are crimes So prosecute him and throw his ass in jail if he's gonna keep doing this because it's not like this is the first time He was caught doing this like this is a criminal Who is lobbing very serious accusations against political opponents of his that could ruin their lives And there needs to be some accountability. So he should be investigated And ultimately he should be prosecuted because this is completely unacceptable I wouldn't support this against donald trump if there were false allegations I would just challenge someone based on the policy substance and if you can't defeat that person Based on the substance itself then too bad. That's politics. Try again But to stoop to this level, you know, this is gutter politics and it's grotesque Joe biden's been in the race now for a little over a week And he's finally starting to give us some insight into his current foreign policy positions And as pretty much all of us would expect It's a mixed bag. So there's some good, but there's also some bad Some really bad So we'll get to the good first when it comes to the issue of us support for the saudi led genocide in yemen He has come out against that and as zack budrick of the hill reports Former vice president joe biden a 2020 democratic presidential candidate is calling for an end to us support for saudi arabia's military campaign In yemen as part of his first major policy proposals released since launching his campaign Vice president biden believes it is past time to end us support for the war in yemen and cancel the blank check The trump administration has given saudi arabia for its conduct of that war biden campaign spokesman andrew bates told the washington posts Josh rogan he urges congress to override president trump's veto. All right. So credit where it's due This is the correct position to take However, this is the position i would expect anyone running in the democratic party primary to take because This really isn't a difficult issue if you arrive at the opposite conclusion Then there's something wrong with you I mean even tea party republican mic lee agrees that we should end us complicity in saudi arabia's genocide in yemen So if a democratic presidential candidate Didn't come to a solution that's such a no-brainer that even a tea party republican can see it It would be really bad for joe biden. We'll just say that However, since this is an easy issue and i'm still willing to give him credit The real question is how is he going to respond to more complex issues issues like venezuela Because as we all know joe biden is someone who Has done the bidding of the military industrial complex. He aligned with neocons Throughout the course of his career. I mean he voted for the iraq war His administration turned libya into a failed state Functionally him and obama increased bush's drone war So is he going to be able to resist his interventionist instincts when it comes to the issue of venezuela? Did he learn his lesson? Is he going to come out against donald trump here and what him elliott abrams mike pompeo and john bolton are trying to do Well, the answer Disappointingly is no because joe biden tweeted this out the violence in venezuela today against peaceful protesters is criminal Maduro's regime is responsible for incredible suffering The u.s must stand with the national assembly and guaido in their efforts to restore democracy through legitimate internationally monitored elections So what he said there is relatively vague and because he spoke in coded language I think a lot of people might see or might not see rather Why what he said there is problematic, but let me break it down for you there He essentially just signaled support for the us coup in venezuela He's functionally taking the side of donald trump here And his position is incredibly ironic I don't think he realizes this because you're essentially saying i'm against maduro Because he is an illegitimate leader. He was not elected democratically, but let's side with this person who also wasn't elected Now he didn't go so far as to recognize guaido as the president like donald trump did but i mean This is essentially a wink and a nod to guaido and It legitimizes donald trump's regime change effort currently. So this is a horribly Troubling indication of what's to come for someone who again Has been very interventionist in the past the correct answer and the only answer here Is to stop meddling in venezuela full stop leave them alone Mind your own business because u.s leaders don't know what to do to not royally fuck up other countries I mean we've already did enough for those of you who don't know Both bush and obama and now donald trump obviously They wanted venezuela to play ball with them. They wanted access to venezuela's oil reserves So the u.s has for years now been trying to find ways to undermine venezuela to get access to that oil And once maduro came to power after hugo chavez passed away well The united states government thought that this would be an opportunity Maybe maduro would be a puppet like other countries are with Huge reserves of oil, but maduro like his predecessor Didn't want to play ball. So what the u.s did was they aligned with saudi arabia and israel To destabilize venezuela since normal diplomatic relationships wasn't possible since they didn't trust us and Rightfully so I think but what we did was we worked with saudi arabia and israel to artificially drive down the price of oil And since venezuela I think stupidly so didn't diversify their economy and their entire economy essentially was propped up by oil revenue What happened after that? Well, they were forced to compete which ultimately led to a loss of revenue and since their economy was not diversified Well, of course this led to economic issues Which subsequently led to political destabilization and once we sowed the seeds that ultimately catalyzed political instability We then placed sanctions on them to punish them for their response To set instability that we tried to cause in the first place and now we're looking for any excuse Possible to invade and we have john bolton on national television Admit that you know, it'd be really great if we could get in there And um have access to venezuela's oil reserves if american companies can get in there This can be a benefit for us and venezuela. So this has always been about oil And yes, I acknowledge that that explanation is an oversimplification, but for the most part We're not worried about what's happening in venezuela because we have humanitarian impulses We're worried about venezuela because we see that as a potential Revenue source for us because we want their oil. That's what it's about. This is what it's about a lot of the times I mean, we are in afghanistan because we want access to their minerals We intervene in countries because we want what they have and if they don't play ball with us If we don't have a puppet in there to do our bidding then oftentimes we'll overthrow their entire regime To put in someone who's gonna play ball with us. It's really disgusting And what I am worried about is joe biden is now essentially legitimizing donald trump's regime change efforts And what's worrying is that this is someone who's one of the front runners. He could actually win so if joe biden wins If he becomes the democratic party nominee once again like in 2016 you have the choice between a warmonger and another warmonger And as glenn greenwald points out wouldn't it be ironic if democrats after spending three years indignantly protesting quote meddling by foreign countries in our internal affairs End up marching behind the person who said this in 2002 about why he supports bush and cheney Removing iraq's government and he linked to a video of joe biden saying this About the iraq war and his support for it Considered in the context of the president's speech this week and is addressed last month of the united nation's general assembly This resolution though still imperfect Deserves our support and let me explain why First the objective is more clearly and carefully stated The objective is to compel iraq to destroy its illegal weapons of mass destruction And it's programmed to develop and produce missiles and more of those weapons President bush did not last out precipitously at iraq after 9 11 He did not snub the un or our allies. He did not dismiss new inspection regimes He did not ignore congress at each pivotal moment He's chosen a course of moderation and deliberation And I believe he will continue to do so at least that is my fervent hope I wish he would turn down the rhetorical excess In some cases Because I think it undercuts the decision he ends up making But in each case in my view He has made the right Rational and calm deliberate decision So as you can see joe biden has a very troubling history and for whatever reason He couldn't see through the bullshit other people Like bernie sanders and barbara lee Realized what george bush was doing essentially lying his way into a war And joe biden didn't see it and now we can see him in real time Gravitate towards making The wrong decision once again Now he elaborated a little bit more on his position with regard to venezuela But for the most part it was pretty much word solid But let me play you a clip about him talking about this a little bit more Look, I I've been talking to my foreign policy team back Home in washington. I've not seen anything. I think what I understand so far is that Waterlin Lopez and I've spent time with his wife when he was in jail Um is uh I think we I think the anticipation That there was going to be a military rise up has been slightly underestimate And uh, I think what we have to continue to do is make it real clear Dick has talked about foreign policy in my history But um, I think that it's very important to stay calm here and uh What what I think the Ultimately what's required Is for the international community to demand that there be free elections only one democratic election has taken place in that place And it's for the assembly There are the people who are actually democratic elected where duro was not democratically elected And there's got to be a commitment That there be we hold democratic elections and that's why it's important we continue to Gain tame maintain and increase the confidence that the rest of Latin South America has in our judgment And we got to put people together Because I think that's the only way this works without there being some real serious problems Now that was incredibly difficult to follow But you can really see that his thoughts there were scattered He wasn't prepared to answer that question clearly, but if you could take anything away from that You can see that he says look maduro is illegitimate. He was not democratically elected But yet ironically you're kind of signaling support for donald trump's position, which is to recognize someone as president Who also was not democratically elected Now let's just say hypothetically speaking Maduro really was the authoritarian dictator that they say he is So is that the new standard that we want to create? We meddle and intervene in countries that aren't democratically elected Because if that's the new standard then we're gonna have to intervene in russia We're gonna have to intervene in Saudi Arabia We're essentially going to have to intervene in every single country under the guise of making them more democratic Do you see the issue with that here? Do you see why logistically speaking that is a fool's game? Are we going to invade north korea and democratize them? Are we going to invade morocco and overthrow the king and rather than focusing on our own issues here Rather than focusing on the fact that maybe america Isn't the most democratic country in the world. The person who got the most votes is not the president someone in georgia literally was able To control his own election. He was secretary of state He put up various barriers to voting and he won narrowly because he cheated Maybe if you're worried about democracy Look at what's happening here in america. But joe biden He just has the worst instincts imaginable And he does not have the best judgment And this was a huge issue that hillary clinton had back in 2016 And why progressives couldn't get on board with her campaign because she was too hawkish And joe biden obviously has the same problem and by really giving a wink and a nod to guido And signaling support for donald trump's efforts here What you are championing is us interference in venezuela that has essentially devolved Into this proxy war between the united states and russia So are you going to continue to fan the flames of regime change knowing That you've been wrong before knowing that this is now a proxy war and that we don't need to escalate The cold war between the us and russia I mean imagine how damaging it would be if joe biden became the nominee Everybody is talking about electability and how he's the best bet to go up against donald trump But we got someone in 2016 who was overly hawkish Who was basically on the wrong side of every us interventionist issue So do we really want to make that mistake again people really where we give individuals the choice between a warmonger and a warmonger? I mean, are we crazy? Do we really want to see what would happen if we did the same thing again if we made the same exact mistake? I mean we have to learn our lesson people and if you're against regime change wars Then you have to be consistent and you have to acknowledge that there are three people who we can trust here bernie sanders Tulsi gabard and elizabeth warren and to her credit tulsi gabard has absolutely been the strongest In this regard. She's not only spoken out against the new cold war She's also been the most forceful in speaking out against the united states' regime change efforts in venezuela so For the love of god people if we don't want a repeat of 2016 Don't vote for joe biden vote for someone who actually is going to provide voters with an alternative in 2020 that obviously Is not joe biden because if he's siding with donald trump on a key issue here There's gonna be problems that is not going to inspire the base to come out and vote That's not going to get non-voters to want to come out and vote for someone who again Is gonna do the same regime change war policy and allow the military industrial complex to run roughshod over him Hello everyone I am here with an absolutely fascinating guest Someone who I think a lot of you probably would have never suspected would come on the humanist report a couple of years ago But now I am here with newly woke peter dow Author of digital civil war confronting the far right menace peter. Thank you so much for coming on the program Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and for everyone who Missed the tweet. We actually this isn't the first time me and peter talked. We spoke about a year ago I want to say And what I noticed and really what surprised me was that like we had more in common than previously thought And what I think that we realize, you know, I can't speak for you peter is that I think we kind of developed this mutual understanding and mutual respect and acknowledgement that We have a common enemy. We have common policy goals And even though we have disagreements with each other deeply rooted disagreements I still think it's important that we kind of talk and have this conversation I completely agree, you know You and I in the very beginning of the phase where I decided to move past 2016 Start reaching out. You were actually one of the first people who was willing to do that We had a good dialogue through twitter And you know what I went to your Website and I looked at your issue positions, which are probably the most detailed of anybody I've ever seen online I mean, which is wonderful. And I was just going down the list and thinking boy, this got Mike really I think I agree with him on 95 of this stuff And that was sort of It was really nice to see and and I appreciate how willing you've been to to get this dialogue going and of course over the past six months nine months Since you and I started talking It's developed further and I've continued to You know reach out unblock people try to connect and just try to put the the mess of 2016 behind us, you know Yeah, yeah, and I think that if if you and I were to have a conversation about 2016 We'd butt heads there'd be fireworks there But I am kind of on the same page where I don't want to think about 2016 Like that is such a toxic year for a lot of us that I think the only way we possibly can Defeat republicans is if we try to move forward and there's still going to be these deep Rooted disagreements that we have and that you know the bernie wing and the hillary wings have But if there's some way we can put that aside and try to talk about You know how we're alike rather than how we're different I do think that that can be uh really fruitful now I do want to talk about your book because um, I'm grateful that you actually offered to come on My show first when you're doing your press tour that is greatly appreciated It's kind of you know in the in the way that you've been trying to extend an olive branch Now from what I understand you've quoted progressives like kyle kolinsky in the book rumor has it I may be in the book is well quoted So can you talk about this book because what you do is you basically You go into detail With this really thorough analysis about how the republican party has essentially weaponized social media and they used this To catapult themselves to political power. Can you talk about this? Yes, absolutely Can I get back to one thing mike that you mentioned that I think is important before we move to that? Absolutely when you said when you said let's set aside our differences from 2016 I love how you said that right because I agree with you We we're not in a position to tell people who suffer like pain and harassment and trolling You know, hey, just forget about it and move on right and so set aside or hit the pause button is a type of language I'm using all I'm asking is let's get focused for the battle ahead in 2020 But I'm not dismissing or minimizing or I don't think you are either on both sides Whatever grievances there were and pain and and and and deep frustration, right? So I just wanted to Sort of reaffirm what you said about how to approach this not to dismiss what people felt Absolutely, you see what I'm saying No, and I'll I'll say to kind of to you know piggyback off of that Like there are still people who I know who were clinton supporters and me being a brother of the brunard You know was then and still am it's like I haven't had conversations with them about this You know and one day maybe this will happen. Maybe one day you and I Can hash this out in a way, but for now I I don't think it's important to relitigate 2016 just because those feelings are still there So I think that that's good that you made that clarification because it's not a matter of dismissing it like Again, you and I have extreme Disagreements when it comes to this intraparty warfare But for now, I do think that building bridges is important because we have to expand the coalition. We have to Somehow try to move past that because if bernie is the nominee Then I want hillary clinton's 2016 supporters to vote for him And I'm sure the same is true for you if somebody, you know from the establishment wing wins. So I think that not Minimizing people's feelings is A really important thing to emphasize. So I'm glad that you kind of added that caveat Okay, great. So we're on the same page and frankly, I think we would probably agree on a lot more about 2016 But let me get so to get to the book, right? I've been in politics for 20 years now and I've never written a book I've always wanted to write and people have kept saying because I've done, you know Thousands of blog posts and tweets and I've been writing since 2000 But I finally thought, you know what? I need to write down In a book form What is going on with the with the with the Deeper moral arguments at the root of all these fights we have online And digital civil war was really me just echoing my childhood where I grew up in an actual civil war in beirut And I thought, you know what? I see I know what it's like when people are battling and what's really interesting about a real civil war Is not everybody's fighting, right? There are people just going about their lives in areas that don't have conflict You know going to movies and doing their thing But then on the on the battlefields you have this intense fight So like you and me are part of politics on a daily basis, right? It's it's what we do, but there are a lot of people who think oh, you know, this is overblown There's really not really a war happening. You're exaggerating But my attitude is look the stuff that's going on online is radicalizing the far right people who are shooting up Schools churches mosques whatever they're getting radicalized in this digital battlefield, right? Also these huge fights that we have about the immigration border policy, for example universal health care They affect people's lives. So when I say digital civil war, it was in contrast to people say soft civil war or cold civil war That's way too anodyne for me. There's nothing cold about kids sitting in cages You know, there's nothing cold about people not having health care and losing their health care So for me, it's like there's a battlefield and some of us are on this battlefield and fighting these really Essential fights about our country and and what it represents So that's really the essence of the book and I dig into the moral questions inequality, for example, uh, you talk about You know quoting you quoting cod quoting others even the chaplain guys, for example, right? So I what what I'm essentially Trying to say look there's this whole discussion of inequality That really I got to give credit to bernie sanders for raising that this is something that's been dear to me for many years That's why I was a fan of bernie before 2016 went down and we all started fighting right, but it's a crucially important issue I live in new york where I see 50 million dollar condos being bought and sold by these hedge fund guys Who don't even live in them and then i'm looking at other places in the country where kids can't afford school supplies That's a deep injustice, right? So that's really for me the essence of the book is to dig through all these issues one by one and show how the battles play out Yeah, and I think that that's really interesting you've touched on a lot there and one thing that I got to say that really Helped increase the respect that I had for you was really this recognition that things That we need to do to get to where we want to be politically are no longer taboo like for example I know a lot of people who kind of come from the wing of the party that you were previously part of Try to make it seem as if you know you can't criticize Democrats because the republican party is such an existential threat and they are But at the same time I like that you've started to really take a more direct approach and Realizing that we have to acknowledge that there are some people on our side democratic party leadership You speak out about them quite uh frequently that if we want to be where we need to be We have to call them out as well and we have to hold them accountable So one thing that I really wanted to ask you about was You you recently kind of had this political awakening over the course of a couple of years And what I noticed now is that you're taking a lot of heat from Hillary Clinton supporters who were previously on your side saying peter You know, I don't know why you're doing this You're only doing this to promote a book and then I see bernie supporters say the same thing So you're kind of catching heat from both sides and so basically what I want to ask you is What do you say to people who are skeptical? What do you say to people who think that? You know this new peter dow this, you know, uh newly woke peter is just doing this for publicity or whatever What do you say to those people because there's a lot of skepticism in politics and I think for good reason So how do we convince those people that? um You really are the real deal and you know what you're saying you mean Well, there's a very simple answer to it I ask people to just use google and go back to who I was in 2001 two three and four look I joined politics after being a house music producer In 2000 and I joined 2001 democratic underground which at the time was really the only message board for us Disaffected democrats and progressives who were trying to fight the right and there's nowhere to go So the early days are like chat rooms message boards online and then at the beginning of blogs right 2002 2003 So I entered politics as an anti-arack war activist as a progressive activist environmental activist human rights This was my life because I grew up in a war and and for me It was like I was just fighting these human rights battles That I cared about so if people go back and look at my history the record is out there I think one of the problems Mike is that so many people just got introduced to me in 2016 It's like this guy some dnc shill But I tell people the story of my life for 15 years before that election I was the progressive net roots guy right the blog guy who people like Kerry and Hilary And even our own specter when he became a democrat It's like we need you to connect us to the blogosphere right that was back in the blog base before social media And if you look at my writings if you even go back to when I was you know I started up with chanky uger with glenn greenwald with dave serota That was the community that I first began my career with right those guys were buddies like glenn and I used to hang out chank and I used to hang out Um like way back 2001 2002 that's interesting Yeah, I've been in this game a long time like this is the thing But I can't fault people who saw me in 2016 and got the wrong impression of who I am I totally get it right because I was defending hillary clinton You know like I was in the trenches with her and I was fighting back hard and I look I overdid it Many of us overdid it we got caught up in a battle where we got really defensive and thus really aggressive And I started being seen as the guy that was going after progressives Which was quite painful to me because that is my community So this is less an awakening for me and more like a coming home Like I consider myself a progressive activist who thought I'm going to get inside the system inside the belly of the Washington beast and try to change it from within But you know what happens is you can't really change it from within and now I'm starting to see that You know what I got to get back on the outside of this thing right now And I got to start going after the structure from the outside right going after this establishment status quo structure From the outside So I only asked people to look back at the sweep of my whole career and look at me in 2008 For example when obama was elected There were only three or four people in my position like somebody who had been in the democratic party Who was going after him on drones on civil liberties I basically accused him of continuing bush's policies by making them worse the aulaki case Extrajudicial killings right assassinating americans with no due process that was on obama And I called him out on it right I called him out for being too to sort of not not aggressive enough on on health care You know when obama care was first place So I only asked people go back and look at who I was For all those years and yes, I got in the middle of a battle in 2016 where I thought I want to elect hillary I'm do everything I can to do it and I think it's the right thing to do and people may disagree But here I am today saying you know what I got to reconnect with my friends Reconnect with my roots and get back to the guy on the outside You know going after the system because the system is broken like you know it right I mean things are so much worse off now than when I started 20 years ago That makes me look at myself and say what have I screwed up? What have I done wrong right because back then the people like You know trump and bolton these guys were like fringe You know steven miller these were fringe people even at sites like free republic And now they're running the country and fox is in the white house So whatever I did I wasn't very successful and I have to ask my friends and all of us as actors There's something wrong and we got a we got a you know really look at ourselves and then get to work And I want to quote someone from uh twitter I believe it is pretty bad lefty who said peter dowell is basically the only person who learned anything from 2016 Because you are willing to be introspective and I think that that's important now Basically, I think that the reason why these types of discussions um and conversations in general are important is because Even if we don't always agree understanding is important So let me pose this question to you because I honestly was only introduced to you in 2016. So my initial you know Introduction to peter dowell was oh, this is just a hillary clinton shill You know it was it was obviously I had that caricature of you built up in my mind and I didn't really know you So let me ask you this As someone who is progressive who has this history of criticizing obama, which I absolutely agree with you with um What is it that made you For lack of a better word abandon that core progressive ideology and go for clinton Instead of bernie sanders because this is the way that I see it If someone is super progressive and ideologically speaking you finally have a candidate Who really is talking about social democracy and universal redistributive programs? What made you kind of lean more towards hillary clinton as opposed to bernie sanders? And I also want to follow that out by asking what was it that Kind of catalyzed this introspective view that you had thinking maybe I wasn't going about this the right way in terms of talking to people Okay, that those are two excellent questions. So let me take them one at a time The first one with hillary was a combination of personal In other words, I got to know her in 2008 now She hired me there was a new york times article when I got hired that sort of sort of Confirms what i'm telling you basically the article said hillary clinton hires peter dow to reach out to bloggers in the progressive community Right, that's why she brought me on board and I said, okay I'll do it now a lot of my friends said what on earth are you doing working for hillary clinton? Right if you're this progressive guy and my answer was look I want to build bridges between my community, which was the net roots at the time That's what it was called then and the democratic party leadership And of course hillary represented the pinnacle of that having been in the white house the first lady senator, etc So I sat down with hillary, you know, I got to know her and You know, I started at that point feeling that You know certain priorities of what were important to me primarily primarily women's rights and women's equality And the issue of a woman never having been elected president So I had differences with her on policy issues whether it was iraq of course because Hands I wore protester so so with with hillary. So I worked for a 2008 9 10, you know During those years and and over those years getting to know her personally Of course, when you know someone in person is very different from the caricature as you said that you had of me And that I that others had of her and so During that period Because in 2016 I didn't officially work for her I was just doing it because I was continuing the mission I had in 2008 now to me women's rights and the oppression of women Across the globe is a you know, I grew up in the middle east So you know how women are treated in the middle east It was a Sort of a primary issue to me as jimmy carter said president jimmy carter, you know Is one of the great travesties of humankind the oppression of women and girls across the globe Okay, and so for me on a personal level with with my family, you know I felt okay getting a woman in the white house and one who is certainly immensely qualified Who I agree with on a number of issues. Maybe not the entire uh Sort of like her philosophy of the country, but certainly a woman who I would be comfortable in the white house So it became a fight for me mike. It's like i'm gonna lecture I'm gonna fight the right and a lot of it was like fighting the right because the right wing takedown of hillary clinton Is exactly what they're doing to aoc and ilhan omar now So it was this okay. I don't want this right wing system to beat me. It became really personal for me So in 2016 it's like i'm gonna pick up where I left off in 2008. I'm just on the outside of the campaign I don't work for I'm not paid by her But I didn't and in 2015 I was praising bernie sanders. I mean again google will help people who are skeptical I was writing stuff like yay. Wow We got bernie sanders talking about inequality and we have hillary who could be the first woman president Bringing all these issues so important to to girls, you know, as a role model And then 2016 he started talking about the wall street speeches and some of those issues and and like I said When you support somebody that strongly you start fighting back and it just went off the rails And I and you know, I apologize for people that I hurt in that process You know, my wife and I took as you know a tremendous amount of heat as well Death threats, you know, it was a year in which and I've written about this, you know, we lost our first baby together To an ectopic pregnancy. She had emergency surgery. So in the middle of 2016 My wife is on an operating table like two months out of the election could have lost her life So it was one of those years that I never ever want to relive again That's one of the reasons to answer your second question is like what made me start rethinking But look, you know the fight for hillary once I'm in the trenches with somebody I was you know, I was trained You know, I was drafted in the military at 15 years old. I lived through awards Like once you're in the trenches, you fight right? You don't abandon that person And but the end result of that was like people now started seeing is this dnc shill. I think oh my god, you know, then So so anyway, so that's what happened 2016. I did not agree with hill around everything I certainly don't I've been critical of her on issues I don't agree with bernie sanders on everything but frankly probably had hillary not been running I would have been a bernie sanders supporter No doubt about that because people like well stone and sanders were the people who I looked up to and and admired in the years before that election Sure, and and that's really interesting because again, like we won't agree on the reasoning but I do want to understand Like I recently had a conversation on twitter with someone who supported alexandria caesio-cortez But didn't support bernie and to me I don't I don't understand it because ideologically speaking. They're very similar Maybe aoc is slightly to the left of bernie, but I think that just understanding will help And I'm sure you would agree kind of reach out outside of the echo chamber outside of our bubble to kind of bring people in So here's what I want to post to you because I don't want there to be just like one person Who does what peter dow does and kind of tries to extend this olive branch? I want more peter dowes. Um, if I can use your name as kind of like a an example What could I have told you back in 2016? Let's imagine you and I budding heads on twitter What could I have told you that would have made you less skeptical about me as someone who is largely viewed as a bernie bro What could I have told you to convince you that i'm coming from this position? Not you know, um in bad faith, but in good faith What do you think somebody like me could have said to you if anything that would have convinced you back then You know, you're you're a really straight shooting guy clearly and you're being honest So i'm gonna you know, I'm gonna I like to do that too. That's the person I am So i'm just gonna respond honestly I don't know if there was anything you could have said because at the point you start seeing other people as I don't want to say enemy, but it's like a bitter rival, right? I don't know that I was really listening that carefully I was angry and a lot of people were angry on both sides, right? And I and I tell people this you know, I've been talking to people over the past week as part as part of the book release And what I've said is look You know, sometimes the closest people people you're in a relationship with, you know Your close family your parents are the most bitter fights when you fight and they can be explosive to the point of violence Most violence is domestic violence that that we see when these sort of close family fights That really I don't know like so there's a way that love turns to hate and In when people are close because they care about the other person's opinion, right? I cared that the progressive community saw me that way it hurt me and it but I take responsibility for what I did to get to that point Um, so I think the answer to your question the tough one now. How do we get people to do it? It's exactly what we're doing just you and me talking Um seeing that we're human beings we're coming from a principled place There were a segment of people you and I know who just wanted to make trouble who wanted to attack and harass I'm not going to forgive or ask other people. Hey, you got harassed and trolled and subjected to these horrible things Hey, you just have to forget it. So it's more like we're here now. It's 2019 going to 2020 So what I would recommend to you to do and to others what I would recommend to others Look inside yourself ask yourself. What are your priorities? We are facing fascism. Like you know, and I know it, right? You know, there's one thing you and I could have ideological differences about capitalism about socialism about political theory and social theory And economic theory But that's more really academic in in in some instances What we're facing is like an existential threat right now to the rule of law and democracy or anything that's left of it I realize and I know you know this that some people may say it just the way the capitalist system is set up But I'm just not really a political scientist or or really an expert on those issues. I wasn't house music musician You know what I'm saying? I was a jazz keyboardist who got into activism I don't know enough about economic and political theory to make these sort of macro You know, um, sort of analysis of what's the better system all I know is I'm seeing Children being shot in school rooms and there's in their classrooms I'm she I'm seeing migrant children being stolen from their parents. That is an atrocity I mean, there is no greater torture. Those of us who are parents understand No greater torture than taking your child away and you don't know where they are and they may never see them again You might as well kill somebody Rather than do that to them and yet our government is doing that in our name We are droning babies in other countries from from missiles that come out of the sky and blow up toddlers Okay, all these things are happening. So me. I'm just like a very direct action type of activists Like I don't know the theory well enough, but I see these injustices I'm just going to speak out about them and I ask others to focus on that like what do you want for 2020? Do you want to sit there and fight over whether, you know, uh, the dnc rigged it or not for the next three years You're never going to win that battle one person to say was rigged one person to say it's not and you're never going to Get to a conclusion and you and I have very strong feelings about this Yeah, exactly, but I've learned to sort of set those feelings. I just focus on these injustices You know, there is so much injustice around us that I just can't look backwards I just took that rear view mirror and I smashed it. That's for me for others can do what they want to do But that's that's my approach Well, let me ask you this because I know that You coming on this show you're going to take heat from Hillary Clinton supporters And I'm assuming I'll take some heat for bernie supporters because it is kind of difficult to kind of Let your guard down and listen to someone if you've been on the opposite sides for so long If you've been butting heads, you know, so I saw a twitter or a reddit thread that Referred to me as the quintessential bernie bro So let me ask you if you have any questions for me because I kind of picked your brain And I want to kind of flip it and see if you want to ask the quintessential bernie brony questions because you know For me, let me just explain my position It's never been about bernie for me like even if I'm a supporter of bernie sanders for me. It's always been That bernie is a conduit to the ideal, you know, not necessarily 100 percent perfect society but a way in which we can achieve these goals So if somebody else comes along and is better than bernie, I jump ship immediately if I feel as if they can win So that's basically what it's been about to me. So did you want to get my brain in that way? Yeah, I do actually you actually just Sort of sent me started answering the question that I was going to ask you because part of my Growth here over the past year is to start seeing that I want to be my own leader I don't want to be defending or following one, you know, another politician. Yeah, I'll vote for them. Yeah, you know I'll criticize them or I'll support them But what is your feeling because you do your thing, right? You got the show you've set this all up This is you know, you're an entrepreneur and you're you you you get your positions across you've built a strong audience How do you feel about the notion of us becoming our own leaders? No matter what it is we do whether it's podcasting or whether it's blogging or tweeting or organizing or canvassing Versus focusing all our energy on one politician Yeah, how do you think about that? Yeah, that's a fascinating question And basically part of the reason I started this podcast is because I wanted people who were usually politically apathetic to get involved And realize that they can't just wait once every four years for a presidential election to take action Like politics is always happening politics is embedded in everything and it influences every single aspect of our lives So basically One of the main reasons why I started the show was I wanted to empower people to take action Into their own hands and realize that this is their government Like they own the u.s. Government You are the boss of every single politician because you're you're paying their paychecks your tax dollars fund them So if you have a representative that isn't representing you adequately call them up leave them a message Challenge them basically my goal has been to really personalize politics and Not make it seem as this really complex thing like I kind of Visualize the target audience being like my mom for example Who has these underlying principles of like equality that she supports and ending poverty But isn't necessarily as politically engaged because she doesn't know about all of the ins and outs because if you just tune in to msnbc or cnn You're not going to get a fundamental understanding of really what's happening So my goal really is to break it down on the most elementary level, you know So people understand what's happening and why politicians do the things that they do So what are some of the root causes because I don't think you can really get politically engaged and involved Unless you understand what's happening So to kind of explain how institutions work how money and politics influences politicians Why politicians do things that really are against common sense like why are we allowing saudi arabia To use our weapons to bond bomb babies in yemen, you know So if people understand the causal mechanisms, then I think it makes them It gives them the sense that they can't take action because you can't really address a problem Unless you know what the problem is and that really is empowering to people just knowledge in general is empowering But you know at the same time the reason why I've been trying to expand who I reach and you know I'll be debating a republican and in the next month is because there's a lot of competing philosophies And you know peter there's scapegoating, you know, donald trump will say it's immigrants that are the cause of your problems But for me I take this macro approach and I say no, it's the system capitalism corrupts everything And I know that you're not necessarily on board with you know democratic socialism and whatnot But this is basically the way that I approach it. Well, let me say this like I my position on that Here's the thing like I studied philosophy in college, right? But you know, I I I know that Isms and is if they're used incorrectly and imprecisely can create more problems like I've seen, you know You know sophisticated thinkers and academics completely disagree on interpretations of these things So my attitudes look, I don't know enough to know which system is the better system So I'm not like pro-capitalist or socialist or democratic socialist or social democrat I really just say look, I see injustice in front of me And I'm going to fight against them and I'm going to leave it to people who know a lot more than I do About the systemic issues. I do know one thing and I agree with you a hundred percent The system is not just broken, but the system is set up to maintain the status quo, right? Because the people who are on power right now don't want to lose power You know, there's some great books like Nancy McClain's democracy and chains and others that talk about You know the the oligarchs who are completely Anti-democratic who have now used the republican party as their vehicle And of course, we know the democratic party is not fighting it for whatever their reason Either they're not capable or they don't want to and again It's important to distinguish. I don't think democrats are nearly as bad as republicans And I don't want to ever have a false equivalence there. I always want to put that on the table But you know the democratic party is not doing what needs to be done Or we wouldn't be where we are today So I completely am with you that there needs to be some Systemic change at a deep level and I can understand how people see bernie sanders as a vehicle for that change Because he's going after the establishment now by the same token If you define establishment too widely you can try to start pulling in people who get deeply offended by that because it's like wait a minute You know, we're fighting for issues or we are not the establishment. Look, it's tough. Mike. It's really tough This stuff is really difficult, right? I mean, we are fighting a battle where we live in a world of profound injustice A system that is geared to just to take care of the point one of the one percent And we all of us are just minions in their in their lives, you know And and we can't let that happen We have to stand up and fight back and it's scary sometimes. It's not what you know, what you do is courageous You know, I I try to be brave and be out there. I get threats all the time from of all sides, right? Um, primarily of course the the far right because I go after them But we what do we do say nothing? You know give up see what I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely So I want to kind of and um, I'll give you the last word But I what I want to do is because I'm assuming there's going to be a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters are just people from that wing of the party who will watch this And assuming that there's going to be a lot of Bernie supporters I kind of want to explain my position to the Hillary people and I want to give you the opportunity to explain your position to the Bernie people um, because I think that really The overall, you know, I think goal is just understanding not agreement. We're not going to agree on everything. Um, that's that's Definitely something that may be achievable in the future But for now, it's just understanding and for me a lot of people I think that the number one criticism of me Um, is that I go after the democratic party too much And I think there's this justifiable worry that why would you want to demonize? The only party that keeps republicans from getting power And I think that that is a legitimate concern But for me, I actually kind of come from this This um political science background where I study other countries that you know I got my masters in comparative politics and I Yeah, I look at these, um political opposition parties from around the world and I see that if they're not strong enough in the face of right wing craziness for lack of a better word That doesn't just mean that people are going to be worse off that literally could be the demise of democracy So one example I always cite on my show is turkey, you know The reason why erdoğan currently Is not consolidating democracy and is instead consolidating his own power Is because the opposition party the party on the left in turkey is so weak that He's been able to essentially do whatever he wants and I kind of sit here in terror as I see the same thing happen In the united states, we have right an opposition party that's so weak And we have a party that is so far off the spectrum, you know republicans are just they're fascistic now I don't think you can really Disagree they are we just have to call it what it is. That's what they are We have to call it what it is. Yeah So the only way I ever see us getting out of this mess is if we have a party That actually fights them tooth and nail And that's essentially the reason why I'm so hard on democrats It's not necessarily because you know, I'm the secret republican operative who wants to bring them down I'm trying to basically look at it from the standpoint of you know If this was my child where you know, your your child is like a crackhead and you want to shake him and say wake the Fuck up, you know, I mean not the best analogy, but that's where I'm coming from I hear what you're saying. No, I totally hear look. I I think you're gonna find That a lot more people who you would consider and let's even move it past Hillary and bernie like generally speaking You know, you know democrats progresses leftists who come from different angles Are starting to agree that like on the impeachment issue I've been arguing forcefully for impeachment. If you don't impeach. Donald trump There's no point of having impeachment in the constitution. Yeah, similarly with stuff like brett cavanaugh To they democrats who have simply walked out of that hearing you you don't empower and legitimize This uh authoritarian takeover of our government I mean these people have no respect for the rule of law same with you know, the hearings today with bar So I think you and I are coming from the same place on Why the democratic party needs to be pushed? Look, we elect people to push them in the right direction You don't just elect people and sit back and say, you know, we trust them, right? And and so I think that you know, I've argued with a lot of people just come out and tell me trust Pelosi or Trust Schumer or whatever. I'm not gonna trust anybody. I I don't like where we are And I don't think they know how to get us out of here I don't you know in some cases in the democratic leadership and the establishment in washington that I Encountered when I work there. I don't know that they want to change the system, right? So, you know, there's voted you know, I'm saying like there's do they know how to do they want to And I don't want to impugn individual people necessarily but when they're screwing up We're going to call them out on it. So I I think look getting to know you reading your policy positions You know, you're clearly a thoughtful person who who cares about the country, right? You're trying to come about it So I would ask I would ask people who Would otherwise not look at you because of the whole bernie hillary stuff or pay attention to what you're saying It's a go just go to your your website or to watch your show and just say You know, look at what this guy's talking about, you know, and and for me, this is how you and I connecting I think many people can do this and on the ground it happens Look, there are people who connect on the on the ground level on the organizing level who do what you and I are Doing I think sometimes in the digital realm It's a little bit people more standoffish and more tribalist and sort of mobs form But but look this this is what this is a wonderfully inspiring conversation for me. I really I like what you do I respect how open you were I ask other people to just say look, you know Let me if I can just get back to the beginning sure people say, you know I'm doing this to sell a book or I'm doing, you know, I'm I'm grifting and I laugh I say wait a minute if I wanted to grift I'd go right I wouldn't go left, you know the money's not on the left, right So I I always laugh and people say you're grifting is like look I'm just following my gut instincts. I'm just some dude who was a musician who like just wants to Help people right because I just want to leave a better world behind for my family Maybe I'm not doing it the right way. Maybe I am but believe me. I'm coming from a sincere place I mean, it's like I This is my whole life. This is all I do, you know, my wife and I like, you know We don't make money from doing this we just care So and I know you do and I know you do too and a lot of people out there do so, you know I hope we can all come together. It feels good to talk to you. Yeah, it does it absolutely does and Did you want to close by like any specific targeted message to people who you were basically previously budding heads with like What would you say to the burn to the bernie supporters, you know, who are are still skeptical because look there's You're not going to be able to erase skepticism People will be skeptical of me saying oh mike's bringing on peter dow because he wants clicks, you know Because people I'm sure will want to watch so the skepticism in this climate I think is justified because you have to be skeptical because really we're in this place where people are cynical for good reason But I mean, I just want to open the floor to you and let you kind of have the last word here and say what you need to say I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Look, you can't you can only earn There's something I learned, you know as a lebanese guy right in lebanon We're respect and dignity and honor are extremely more prioritized than they are in our culture in america So for me, you know dignity and honor sometimes that's why i'm so contentious and I fight with people I know I piss people off look no matter what I say like I'm going to piss somebody off I've learned that the right left center hillary bernie people whoever, you know, it's like and that's okay I've been doing this 20 years and I know they're going to be people We're going to just want to go after me and question my motives and that's all fine When I call it a digital civil war in my book because it's a battleground, right? It's a battleground out there and I'm going to take my hits. I'm going to take punches I'm going to throw punches back but all all all I really would like to say to people is we all Can disagree without impugning the integrity of another person I you know every time You know somebody doesn't agree with what I'm saying. I don't have to say you're a horrible person at the core I can just say look I vehemently disagree with you. You're just dead wrong and leave it there We've we've learned to just go to the next level and say you're horrible And and we need to learn to stop that I need to learn to also You know understand, you know people skepticism. That's what I'm trying to do You know, I I make jokes about my 2016 self with people who were attacking me who I had blocked back then Because you got to have a sense of humor, right human beings. So so that that's all I say like I I know I have to earn respect of all sides not just Bernie Sanders support not Hillary's board anybody. I'm out there You know sort of dealing with politically People will only know me through my My actions my words and my intellectual honesty and if that comes across great And if it doesn't I'll keep working. So that that's sort of where I'm at All right. Well, Peter Dow. It's been a great conversation. The book is digital civil war Confronting the far right menace. Peter. Tell us when the book comes out and where people can purchase it It just came out literally yesterday. So thanks for asking and you know, anywhere where books are sold It's really just actually digital civil war dot info We'll take you to all independent booksellers amazon barns and noble anywhere else where they sell books And you know, look the book is my my life's learning 20 years of doing politics. It's my first book, you know So it's like everything I've learned I threw it in that book and hopefully it helps others understand What the hell is going on with this with our country because this is terrifying times and it's going to get worse Before it gets better and that's what's so scary to me. So we got to all step up All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on Hopefully this will be the first of many conversations and I hope that other people kind of do the same thing And try to just, you know, be more open-minded and talk to people who they previously disagreed with and maybe still do disagree with So thanks so much for coming on Peter. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for being so open. I appreciate it Well, that's all that I've got for you guys today Thank you so much for tuning in if you've made it this far in the program As usual, I want to thank all of our patreon paypal and youtube members and send a special shout out to all of our iTunes and soundcloud listeners. Um, hopefully you guys enjoyed the episode It's a little bit shorter than usual because I've had a little bit of complaints that um The show's getting a little bit long, but this is mostly due to me having guests for the last couple of weeks So anyways, I've talked too much. I'll see you all next week. This has been the humanist report My name is mike ferretto. Take care everyone