 So, welcome everybody to another Deep Adaptation Q&A with myself, Professor Jem Vendell, the founder of the Deep Adaptation Forum. And this month joining us is Sister Jayanti, who's the European Director of the Brahm of Kumari, which is a spiritual movement globally that started in the Indian subcontinent. Sister Jayanti has been working with them as a spiritual teacher and also as someone who engages politicians in the United Nations system on their behalf, doing that for about 50 years. So, it's wonderful that Sister Jayanti is joining us now from Rajasthan in India. Thank you for joining us. Hello, Om Shanti, a greeting of peace to you, Jem and all our viewers and listeners. Thank you. And I say I'm really grateful that you're able to still join us because obviously it's been quite a momentous few weeks. So the leader of the Brahm of Kumari, Daddy Janki, has just passed aged 104. And so I presume there must be quite a lot of reflection and celebration about her. I was wondering, just to begin with, what are your memories of her that really feel important for you at this time? Because it's such a worrying time globally, what with the COVID pandemic and it's so uncertain. She was a giant of a person, even though she was four feet 11, but her personality was just amazing, radiant. And I'd known her for about 62 years of my life. And so that's most of my life that I knew her and lived with her for 40 years. And she would always say, don't think. And that's an interesting comment to me. And what she would mean is that keep your mind very peaceful and quiet. And then the right thoughts will come. If you let your mind go worrying around in a spin, then you won't be able to see or understand clearly what's going on. Things will get muddled and jumbled and confused. And so here's a woman who had spent a lifetime going deep into herself to explore what is inside our own inner world, thoughts and feelings and conscience and consciousness and how to be able to purify the mind to have nothing but clean thoughts, noble thoughts, elevated thoughts. And so this is Summary's daddy and she had been a world server. She's been serving all her life right until the very end. That's lovely. I didn't know she had said, don't think. I thought you said... It's perfect because there's a lot of thinking right now about yeah, not just to make meaning of what's happening or to try and reduce the vulnerability we face, but also it's almost like people want to narrate what does this mean for the future and what comes next. And there's some anxiety in all of that. And I found myself drawn into that. So it's a lovely message for me. Thank you. I felt that would be the most appropriate thing that she would be saying at this moment. I love it. I love it. Just let your mind be peaceful and calm so that then you can even know what to think. Otherwise, there's too much information, misinformation, all sorts of things are happening and you can't think clearly. And so creating space in here is very, very important. And if I can do that, then my own inner inspiration will be guiding me in the right and my connection with the one above is going to be clear and strong. And I'll be able to take that guidance also. So there is a lot of anxiety, both where you're based in the UK, but also now in India and then even the policies that are taken to try and reduce the risk, then obviously have further consequences with more anxiety, more suffering. So I know I was looking back at some of your interviews and teachings and that you said the power of love can be a protection and that when we feel anxious about what's happening in society, we can connect with that feeling back to that feeling of love and act from that place. And I think that's also when you're saying about stilling the mind and allowing that reconnection. I was wondering as not just with the pandemic, but also with the anxieties around climate change and the anxieties around the direct impacts on climate right now in terms of on harvests and livelihoods and so on. What can you say about that? How do we go about connecting to that power of love? My experience and my understanding both together tell me that the natural state of the human spirit is of love and compassion. And when we lose touch with ourselves because we're so occupied with all the externals of life and lockdown has meant that some of those distractions have been removed from our life. And so it's given us a bit of space. But of course, it's all the other things inside ourselves that come up. But if I can connect with the deeper inside, the being that I am within, then in that awareness, there is pure love and there is compassion. And so if we see lockdown as an opportunity, not as a punishment, but as an opportunity to be able to go within, I can feel that love that's there within me and allow it to emerge and be expressed. But it's not your romantic love of candle lights and things, but it's a love which is all embraced and all inclusive so that I see you as my brother and I see every person of the human family as my family. And when there's this interconnectedness that I feel and that pure love is going to stimulate me to be able to go beyond my own selfish desires and I want I need to something which is much higher. Then I can see how we can all of us cooperate together and carry the whole of humanity forward to the next step of our evolution. And I offer a ray of hope, not just a little ray, but in fact, I sense that what's happening now is a very dark period. And in India, they would describe it as the Iron Age. And beyond that, the darkness comes the day, the light. And that we would say is this transition period. And there's a huge amount of upheaval on all levels inside ourselves and externally also nationally and internationally upheaval everywhere. But it starts from inside. But if we deal with the dark forces, the negativity within ourselves and allow the goodness to be expressed, then together we can create a better world for all of us. Yeah, I'd like to to come back to that, but also I'm really interested in this. The inner upheavals. As people begin to see that the future won't be what they thought. Perhaps their their income and their job isn't what they thought and. And new fears as well that arise. I was wondering, meditation is is offered by the Brahma Kamaris and indeed with many, many spiritual traditions as a way of settling those thoughts, connecting to that sense of universal love that you've described and connecting some or aligning one's own will to some divine will. I was wondering if you could say something more about meditation because some people see it as and some people offer it as a way of perhaps turning away from the pain and suffering of the world rather than finding a way of being more calmly with and engaged with the pain and suffering of the world and calmly with the pain and suffering that we feel inside as we think seem uncertain. I was wondering if you could say how how you see meditation. Given the fact that so many people have all these different ideas about it. It's become a spiritual supermarket and you can pick up the shelf what it is you you're looking for maybe. But the meditation I practice is Raj yoga meditation and the word yoga means union connection. And what we're talking about here is the awareness, the identity of the self as the inner being and through my thoughts connecting with the divine so that yoga that union connection happens and I experience that relationship and what's normally happening is that the mind is functioning and it's nonstop through the day through the night just usually very, very fast and in meditation what we're doing is learning to have mastery over our thoughts so that we're able to slow down the mind and it happens in a very natural way. If you start that inner journey and look at your thoughts, your thoughts generally then tend to slow down and then you can select the thought that you want to focus on. Maybe the thought of peace, maybe the thought of love and you connect with your own inner goodness. I know that I carry a mixture of good and things that are not so good at the moment and I can deal with the things that are not so good a bit later on. But at this moment, let me focus on that inner goodness that lies in every absolutely every human being. So I'm connecting with that purity, that peace and in that higher consciousness I can be aware of the presence of the divine. When I'm struggling with my jealousy, my envy, my fear, all of these things I'm very far away from that level of consciousness in which I can be aware of the presence but when I clear my mind and learn to focus on the goodness within then in that way I'm raising my consciousness, my energy and I'm able to feel the presence of the divine and with my thoughts I make contact. So it's not stopping thoughts, it's not saying go into silence, make your mind go blank. Externally I'm not speaking but internally I'm now beginning to have a conversation with the divine and so there's a relationship that I'm building up and that means I'm getting two things. I'm getting the additional love, peace and strength that I need but I'm also receiving the power I need to deal with all the human frailties that we all have that keep holding us back, our egos, our anger, all of this and so that means that I'm actually preparing myself to engage more fully with other individuals but also with the world at large so it's not a meditation that leads to escapism or denial but rather it's a preparation to be able to engage more fully with the highest that there can be within myself so that now instead of always being one who is needy and wanting and taking and I'm not talking about money and food, I'm talking about the inner thirst of the soul I need love, I need this, I need happiness and so I'm wanting somebody or something to provide me with that but now in that higher awareness in which I've been able to fill myself I can actually start giving and so that changes the dynamic of the relationships I have around me very very quickly but it also widens my horizon so that my family is not just my limited nuclear family or a community to which I belong but truly I'm able to go above those limitations and see the family of humanity as my family, I belong to this bigger family I, it's only, thank you for that, it's only since I started practicing meditation more fully about a year ago and particularly doing a vipassana insight meditation that the power of it became clear to me previously I thought it was about just calming the breathing, slowing the thoughts and then therefore somehow just being a bit more relaxed but actually then I realized it's brought this awareness of sort of thoughts and feelings, emotions, sensations happening to me rather than defining me and therefore I can watch them a bit more and so for example in the past months of different times I felt a bit panicked about the situation living here in Indonesia and not being able to leave Indonesia now and yeah I realized that that ability to watch what's happening in my body and not act from it to not act from that immediate fear is something which I've gained and I can, I have even if I'm not meditating it's actually just sort of stays with me every day I know with Brahma Kumara you meditate with your eyes open, is it something to do with how you try and then bring it into everyday life? You've hit it on the nail because say for example now as I see you and we engage together if I'm seeing you as that inner being that light that shines within our connection is a very different one than it would be you're the professor and I'm the one without any science background without any of this education there would be all sorts of tensions in our relationship but as it is you're a meditator and I am too and you're connecting soul to soul and so there's a very easy and natural rapport I mean we met for a couple of hours a year ago and we haven't met since but it's a very natural and easy connection and that's because of this open eyes meditation I think because if I close my eyes in meditation it might be easier temporarily but I'll open my eyes and I'll get distracted and my consciousness from being up there is going to come crashing down with you but if I can train myself to see and not be distracted keep my thoughts on a higher level then I continue with my action my responsibilities we call karma yoga action and yoga together yoga in action or action in the higher consciousness so then I can engage in speaking eating walking driving whatever it is but it'll be with that awareness of being able to see the soul brilliant thank you and it can change the world if there's a recipe for changing the world I think it could this right so I'm I'm really interested because I think you you live in community both in London but also now where you are at the the base of Mount Abu and there's a benefit from that in terms of lockdown but perhaps there's also a sense of increased vulnerability because of possibilities of transmission I'm wondering so many of us are feeling vulnerable to infection disease and so on I was wondering how your perspective on the true nature of yourself influences how you feel about your own vulnerability your own sense of mortality I think in the Brahma Kumaris you talk about soul consciousness and the soul identity I was wondering if you could tell us a bit about that thank you and yes it's absolutely a fact that if I'm aware of my own inner identity as that being within and you talked about the mastery of thoughts and feelings but it extends also to mastery of my physical senses and so I learned I learned more and more that it's I the soul that lived here not on the skin but deep inside I am that inner being in charge of this physical body and my thoughts and feelings are going to impact what's going on in this body being more used to experiencing it the other way I hurt my finger I feel the pain and it really shifts my attitude to somebody who caused me that pain maybe my finger got stuck in the door because you slammed it something like that and I'll blame you and this pain is impacting the way I now see you and so usually the body is in influencing the soul and I spoke about a very little thing but in big ways also our thoughts and feelings get impacted by whatever it is our body is going through and now we're reversing the process we're ensuring that the soul takes charge of the body which means that if I can be filled with faith and love and hope even my immunity is enhanced that is a fact it's not just spiritual stuff but it's been proven to be so when there's hope in the heart the immunity goes up and when there's fear then the immunity goes down negativity is going to bring my immunity down so at this particular time having this awareness of the inner being means a I'm keeping my immunity level high but also I'm very very aware that the quality of my thoughts is going to make me feel better if I'm sick it's my thoughts that are going to make me feel better more quickly but also if I'm not sick but I'm not afraid that's going to be protection in itself anyway and so I think it's a time when people recognizing that apart from washing your hands and maintaining social distance and all of those things the way we think the way we feel is going to help us stay well or it's going to allow us to succumb to viruses or even if the body is fragile and the virus has come I'll be able to recover more quickly if I have the right thoughts and the attitude and perception of what's going on yes I've come across quite a lot of news and studies around how what the connection between mind and body in terms of immunity yeah and including even altruistic feelings and the power of one's immune system obviously some of those messages some of those some of that evidence and some of that philosophy can can sometimes be taken out of context and need to some strange sort of you know you've got ill because you've got ill because you worried too much type of stuff so it can be misused perhaps but I'm interested in your neck you mentioned hope if you have hope in the heart now hope is a concept which is in means different things in different spiritual traditions it even means very different things within Christianity if you compare different different bits of different debates within Catholicism or within Protestantism and so my understanding of hope in relation to soul doesn't really mean much in terms of a hope for my own future in this body and therefore by extension doesn't mean too much really in terms of a hope for how societies will be in the sense that the hope is more about how we will be how I will be how people interact with can be no matter what's happening whether it's an asteroid hitting us from outer space or a virus sweeping the world that we can't control or climate change becoming a runaway phenomenon so I was wondering how you talk about hope is it a hope for the soul's journey or is it is it a hope more made manifest in the material plane and and yeah I'd be very pleased to hear you the whole drama of this word in which we are living in and it's a stage people come people go people play their roles on the stage and so it's the interaction of soul and matter it's never that the soul is there on its own but it's in matter and in the body playing its role on the stage so yes I'm talking about hope that the soul is going to feel strong and bright and beautiful and it's going to come to that original state of joy and love that I used to know at some point and now it's again possible for me to return to that but it's also very much connected with the physical dimension but yes there's a time when there's darkness and there's a time when there's light and we've gone through the period of darkness and what we're approaching now is a world of light and so yes we're seeing huge upheaval but beyond that upheaval we see that the world will be a better place and human beings will be experiencing their own higher state and they'll be sharing those qualities with each other so that when people interact it'll be with kindness and love when people speak it'll be words that are supportive and loving and encouraging instead of the harshness that's happening today in the world. So I'm really interested in this because obviously when the Brahma Kumaris were founded and the founder Dada Lakaraj in 1937 he had that great vision of suffering with war with natural and technological disasters and so that sense of sort of future cataclysm which is in many spiritual traditions as well that sense of apocalypse and rebirth but rebirth in different traditions means different things it could be non-material it might not be for for humanity but for consciousness here or in another part of the cosmos but the Brahma Kumaris you've had this in your cosmology in your in your religious stories and outlook since the beginning I was wondering what we could learn from that and as the as many people on this planet are waking up to multiple crises which may be uh irresolvable at least things may get much much worse there may be huge death and suffering and there's uncertainty about how we get through it or what comes next um what could people waking up to that predicament learn from how the Brahma Kumaris have lived with this expectation of a form of of of collapse of the Iron Age we've always kept that vision of a better world in front of us but also more than that what we've done is make sure that living in the world we don't get trapped by the possessiveness and the attachments that are connected with this world and so that's been a very very important part of the whole story um if I get attached to even a little thing that's going to distract me and pull my attention and energy towards itself but if I can hear in a human form know that this is a fantastic instrument this body of mine is very precious but I also know that I have to be the one that's detached from that limited consciousness that the body imposes on me because this is what leads to when I think I'm gently I'm so and so I am this this this and this there's a whole big track that I'm falling into yes yes that's that sounds right for for me as well the the letting go the incredible letting go of realizing that life as we know it right now is not as it always will be um and I think that that that creates as some distance um which allows allowed me to really think well what do I most value rather than just live from habit and from sort of yeah my my acculturation in this society yeah and in that in that state when I'm in that limited consciousness of this identity then the color of my skin the gender the age the possessiveness of relationships the position I hold in society the tradition I'm supposed to follow all of these things are really a cage in which I put myself into and connected with all those limitations is also um the ego the anger the greed the materialism that we are seeing currently and so all of these things are the traps and spirituality teaches us to go out of that trap and be free and so when I can be free in the awareness of spirit I am here in the body but now this isn't master I am the master and so I use this in the best possible way can my mind be filled with pure noble elevated thoughts altruistic thoughts that you shared earlier can I make sure that my heart isn't tiny and concerned only for I and me that my heart can be open and big and generous and compassionate and my hands the ones that can give and heal and share with us so I'm using this physical body but now I'm using it in a very conscious way instead of being just in the past um bondage of habit because this is what others are doing this is what I have to do also and I have to compete with them and in that competition of course sometimes there's also conflict that arises and so can I go out of all of these things to that higher state of awareness um which is the original human state the love the peace the truth now can I go back to that and the more I maintain that awareness of the inner being the easier it becomes to access these qualities which are there within me and of course when I think about hope for example I'm thinking about the one up above who's always always benevolent and then I begin to see that life is also benevolent there are things that I go through which are not comfortable not pleasant but there are lessons that I have to learn from all of these things to be able to come to that understanding of what is the benevolence of all of this we mentioned people having the possibility and the time of thinking more deeply about what's going on so I see that this is the silver lining of COVID-19 I see giving us that opportunity I have a couple more questions but also just want to tell the people who are joining us from the deep adaptation forum please do now start sharing your questions in the chat box especially of course if you are on video so we can invite you in in a few minutes sister Jayanti the Brahma Kamaris the world's largest spiritual organization run by women and leadership by women's been central uh central part of your organization and how it functions I was wondering what do you think other religions could learn about women's leadership or even even actually because deep adaptation now is becoming a movement of sorts and what we could perhaps learn as we we have a forum we're we're organizing things what can we learn in terms of why leadership from women is really important I think women have more awareness of what it is to nurture and sustain and so sustainability is a big word but a natural feature of women is that ability to nurture and sustain and so and the founder wanted women to take on this role that was part of the thinking yes it was also that women should be given their equal right in society so that there's balance in the future in society so I would recommend definitely but within your own leadership that you make sure that you have women who have that innate sense of sustainability and nurture but also of course they bring a situation in which they're not just thinking ever for themselves alone they are always thinking of others around them and so that spirit of service is again inborn within women and it's a maybe I should say it's a feminine aspect that men can also have and develop within themselves but I think that that's another part of the thinking about the collective thinking about the home thinking about the people rather than just the facts and figures of money and finance and logistics but to be able to have that right side brain come in yeah it's interesting you say that because I do find that I can sometimes accidentally get into squabbles with other men of my age or older about who's more right I don't I don't really seem to have those squabbles with women and so yes it's not just to do with logistics and money it's to do with sort of categorizing labeling defining as part of this desire to have agency and control and oversight perhaps and and the the spiritual dimension the all is somewhat ineffable or actually ultimately unknowable and so that kind of whole process of trying to label describe is is is is is somewhat futile even though interesting I want to ask you about oh sorry yes I was just going to say that control and power games have determined the whole period of the last thousand years and have created wars and conflict and so it's time to get away from just that external side of power and control and know that um spiritual power is the power of love is the power of compassion definitely and um I want to ask you about some lifestyle choices because it's been coming up in debates about about um if you're concerned about climate change whether it's cutting carbon emissions or drawing them down or just preparing for ongoing disruption to our lives and which is more what deep adaptation forum and movement are about um people talk about diet and I think most Brahma Kumaris are vegetarians um so I was wondering could you explain why do you choose the vegetarian life um including from a spiritual perspective and um so that I think that would be really helpful for for people to hear um let me start with the immediate factors that people can notice health many people now switch to vegetarian diet because it's a healthier diet if you think about the sort of antibiotics and the fact that 70 percent of the antibiotics that are made um are actually being used in the animal in the industry for food um because they keep them in such close quarters that they just couldn't survive if they didn't feed them on antibiotics and I'm eating that food stuff what is it doing to me and so that's one little example but of course generally speaking um health and diet and plant-based diet is absolutely the right thing to have in terms of our own human growth and development and then the second thing is the ecological aspect and in terms of ecology you know how much land space is required you know how much water is required in terms of um I'm sorry we're getting um some unmuting going on Matthew sorry could you just yeah just thank you sorry sorry sister Danty so the first is my own personal health the second is ecology and the need to to move to plant-based diets so that we are releasing land space and water and so on for um everyone rather than just for a handful of people and then the other aspect is spiritual and if my food comes from non-violent sources then that's going to be enabling my mind to be more peaceful and so the spiritual side of it is where we take life um for the sake of feeding ourselves and so um do unto others what you would have them do unto you it's a golden rule in all traditions and generally for humanity to live with and so if I'm killing for the sake of my own food my own taste basically my mind is going to be a state of upheaval in which there's never going to be peace and so if you want to have peace in the world our sources of food have to be peaceful also yes of course there's with what was factory factory farming um there's so much unnecessary unnecessary suffering in the animal supply chain now um so that's really helpful um to to think about um because some people faced with so the people in the deep adaptation space generally anticipate a collapse of this way of life this way of life being the industrial consumer way of life where we have full supermarkets and and so some people respond to that by thinking they want to become more self-sufficient and live closer to the land and and so there can be a reason for having some sort of chickens and such like pigs and so on in that other people say well because I feel that um um there's so much suffering ahead uh that all my old stories of um my what I believe in and who I am are crumbling I just want to live as lovingly and kindly as possible and not contribute to any suffering of any sentient being as much as is possible and so then they're more drawn to the to the vegetarian route so it's it's really interesting to see how people respond in different ways to this awareness absolutely of of a an upheaval in our way of life that's coming and that's already upon us of course in many cases what with what with the coronavirus and so I think that the more information we can share people can make their own choices ultimately it's each individual making choice but the more information I have the user it is for me to make the choices that I feel comfortable with um in a year's time five years time so I'm going to come to Sasha in the moment but I was wondering before we go to questions from others um what's Brahmikamari doing now in response to the coronavirus pandemic either where you are or worldwide um in India of course we have a huge community and we're able to look after many others in a physical way and so yes we've got um space given to the government for um bringing people if they want to be put in quarantine or if they're patients then we've provided through buildings in our um in one part of our campus where there's doctors and nurses who are there to be able to care for people so on that level it's a very external help that they're providing um on another level wherever there are vulnerable people from within our community who are in quarantine or isolated or vulnerable you're providing food for them and so forth but I think the most important thing we're doing is helping uplift spirits and providing that sense of community that can come through Zoom um staying in contact with them being able to reach out to them and so I think every single center around the world now has of course um our community classes where they come together has stopped um a month ago maybe six weeks ago and so we've been engaging in all the online activities right from meditations online, teaching online, our regular daily classes online, public events online and the numbers we're getting is an indication that people are appreciating all of this greatly valuing it a lot. Is that the that can be found through brahmakamari.org or the meditation that's right okay and can people can people make donations for your humanitarian work through yes indeed yes indeed super all right thank you sister so I'm gonna hand over now to uh we're gonna have a question from Sasha if you could say where you are in the world as well that'd be interesting um Matthew if you could unmute Sasha or form Sasha unmute yourself yes thank you um I live in the center of the United States in a rural area called the Ozarks and thank you it feels so good to to hear you talk today what I wanted to ask you is you know there's a lot a lot of knowing how we want to be or how we should be but that we're not achieving that so for instance wanting to have a more quiet mind even when circumstances are tumultuous and but but not meeting that ideal then sometimes I come into conflict with myself and it just seems to make things even worse like the comparison of where you want to be to where you wish you were and I wonder if you have any comments on working with that thank you for your question I'm sure it's one that many others also have um if I can develop my own inner power then I'll be able to achieve the things that you shared um and just me on my own might find it difficult but if I can connect with the higher source then I'm able to draw that power into myself and dramatic changes can happen more than I believe it's possible maybe at this moment but yes it can give me greater love it can give me greater peace and give me an awareness of joy and I'll be able to fill myself with that spiritual energy and power and start using it in my life and so even a short practice of meditation every day can bring a huge amount of benefit and of course when we feel that something's bringing benefit we want to increase it and enhance it and so it becomes a natural incentive to continue with that like Gem was saying that since practicing in a more regular way there's been very visible results that have been experienced yes at least I can claim that I don't know if my partner would agree I still got to keep trying but yes there's an aspect of self-acceptance isn't there that there's no in the in a sense that that um we'll never get this right and that's okay you know keep returning keep returning to that that's that effort and that state of love keep returning falling away and then keep returning back it's in the deep adaptation forum we don't we have some principles for how we dialogue about these difficult issues of anticipating preparing for transcending collapse but we don't just say that we're interested in compassion curiosity respect we talk about returning to compassion returning to curiosity returning to respect because it's it's inevitable these are stressful stressful situations stressful times some people say that humanity is having to have conversations that we've never had because individual civilizations have faced demise but this is a the awareness we have of the threat to the whole of whole of humanity at this time it's quite a quite unprecedented so so of course we're going to get a little bit stressed and naughty with each other so it's that returning again and again it's good because I like that because that is what it is it is there within us and so we forget and so we have to remind ourselves and return to that yeah yeah actually remembrance remembrance of our our soul's unity with the all is is obviously a very big thing in Tsinsuka's and the lots of different different spiritual traditions quite like that so we're going to go to Ono now I don't know if I pronounce Ono's name right question if you could say where you're from and unmute yourself no you're still muted there we go I'm in New York and my question is about the transformation that humanity will need to you know go through and that is that we're much too wealthy and that's just wealth is creating all of the problems that we're having and I see it the only path forward is a much greater love is is that and so I'd like to hear about the connection between spiritual fulfillment and being content and happy and satisfied with one's being and have that have the actual practical effect of reducing our wealth and also our carbon footprint it's our wealth that makes this carbon this massive carbon footprint possible and you need to go beyond thank you and I I would say that maybe it's a question of the imbalance of the distribution of wealth and so there's a tiny tiny proportion maybe 20 percent of the world that is wealthy and within that a 4 percent that is hugely wealthy but 80 percent of the world isn't wealthy and I'm not just talking about lacking in this spiritual wealth of love and joy but actually physical survival and okay so some of the 80 percent might have some things some of the time but not everything all the time so you're talking about distribution and how inequality really rules the world at this moment and so if I can take it on a very personal level first myself and if I can learn to make that connection and allow my own love and joy and truth and purity to increase what I can then do is to be able to be content and know that my happiness doesn't come from a bigger car or a better house or any of these external things and that is a reality once you've got a certain amount of wealth to just maintain physical needs then anything that comes beyond that beyond that beyond that isn't adding to anyone's happiness and there's a lot of research that's telling us this and so yes I need a certain amount for my physical needs but beyond that what I need to do is to develop my own inner treasures and to know that my happiness is within and on a very practical external level it then means I can simplify I just don't need all the external trappings that are available in materialistic societies today and so I can simplify all of that and reduce my carbon footprint considerably by doing that and there's more available for others to benefit from to share but I also become more free whilst I'm trapped by wanting and needing a lot of things externally I'm trapped by those things and I feel very distressed and very unhappy if any of those things are missing in my life if I've simplified my life and learned to have the happiness within that comes from that inner state of contentment then I'll be able to manage my life in a much better way thank you thank you yes and I found myself loosening my um loosening my habits of consumption I think a lot of the consumption I was doing was just sort of out of out of not being you know just normal life without thinking and so that I think uh definitely I'm not going to go back to the same habits of consumption I want to go to Katie Carr she has a question for you and then Sanel and then we'll be coming up to the hour so um Katie if you could unmute yourself yeah thank you hi Mr Janti um my question uh is that say where you are by the way oh I'm in Indonesia I'm from the UK um the spiritual path for me is just as much about being able to stay with really really live with the pain and devastation of what humanity is creating continues to create and not just having a way of returning to the love and the beauty which is essential to being to all every being so how do we avoid spiritual bypass and consequently the risk of not addressing in our own lives and in the outside world really really tough decisions and actions um as a spiritual spiritually aware person I'm very much here in the world and so I'm not in denial of the world on any level and I know that the world is going through a lot of pain and suffering and I'm part of that world and I've been through that pain and suffering but what I've now done is to be able to look at myself from the inner perspective as a soul and so if the body is unwell I won't let myself go through suffering in a way that I used to before but what I'll do is I'll say okay let me detach and let me give good vibrations to my body so that the healing process of the body takes over and yes I'll take the medication I need to take but I'll use the power of my mind and the power of love and truth to go through my physical body so that I'm not suffering as I used to before otherwise you know we tend to wallow in self pity well who is me why did this happen to me and I wish it hadn't happened and we're struggling with a fever we're struggling with a cough whatever it may be but now I'm able to send vibrations of peace through my whole body so I'm learning to deal with whatever is a suffering and pain in a different way and when I see another person who's suffering maybe I can say to them okay just for a moment come back to that inner awareness of peace that you are and see if holding that awareness of peace can make you breathe more easily and probably it would help them at that time and so it's a very practical thing that meditation is teaching me it's not a denial of the pain and suffering but how do I deal with it differently and so that I've given you just one simple example of what might happen with breathlessness or whatever um somebody used this technique just a little while ago and she said I felt as if I wasn't going to be able to live because I couldn't breathe and I remembered I'm a soul and I could feel my body relax and I could send those vibrations of peace to my body so there are different ways that we can learn about dealing with pain and suffering in different ways I'm hearing a real is it a paradox or is it a balance it's it's how do we tune into that how do we develop equanimity which isn't necessarily serenity it's being able to be with whatever is without craving without wanting to always be peaceful and always to help everybody else be as peaceful as quickly as possible um you know to be to be present to the suffering and present whatever suffering is happening in us as well as well as in the world um but not it not wallow in it not be averse to it it's it's it's some kind of stillness to be fully present rather than lost in our own cravings and aversions and it's a it's a difficult one maybe it comes really quickly if you don't think we just don't need to think well I actually have had a brilliant master and teacher and daddy because I saw her go through so many different illnesses and so it's it's not that you know she was up above and uncaring um she knew what is physical ill health she'd gone through so many things herself another story for another time now I see so we just want to quickly end sorry sister with Sanel because we've got to finish now we've only got um we've got about three minutes before it comes up for an hour so one one question Sanel we're in the world are you and what's your question this is the jam the final question before we close yes thank you for this opportunity thank you for all your work amazing I'm here in Edinburgh Scotland and my question is to help my my partner who's listening to us and so um how do you do when you don't have a habit of meditation when you don't have experience meditation in a developed way yeah but you'll find yourself in a situation that is difficult a one month of isolation in your room you've been caught by the virus and not many hopes are there for you but maybe meditation is one although you don't have that experience and it's difficult to to embrace it because yeah you don't know actually much about either how it works and it's yeah your motivation gets lost over time how do you do to thank you into that thank you a simple way to start on that inner journey is to read things that are uplifting and things that are inspirational for you and if you've got things like that share them with the ones you love so that then they can also read those things technology is amazing and there's yes the dark side of technology that I'm very aware of but the good side of technology is kicking in at present time share beautiful thoughts inspirational thoughts and whoever reads these things then just takes a moment to just run them through their mind it's a beautiful idea and there you go you've started to meditate to allow your mind to reflect on things of beauty of truth of love and joy is meditation don't make it a mystery don't make it complicated just make it very simple and so when you reflect on higher things things of truth and joy then you're moving in that direction which is meditation so shared with things with each other that's interesting to hear that I was rather than just you know how to cross your legs on a cushion no all right the brilliant thank you very much for joining us today sister Jayanti and I hope that you're all that you're safe and well over the coming weeks in in a difficult situation in India and I have to say that your questions have been beautiful Jen really very deeply spiritual it's an indication of your um returning to that love and truth in yourself thank you thank you thank you very much and uh I'm wondering uh I've still I've still got that wonderful don't think thing maybe I need more days where I just don't think it's difficult is a habit of a lifetime trying to be clever and try to small doses after a few hours of overthinking say okay stop stop yes all right blessings and to everyone from around the world joining us and uh if yeah see you in a in in a month's time those of you at the deep adaptation forum for our next Q&A and thank you again sister Jayanti bye bye thank you Jen bye bye