 When we look at the context of white supremacy slavery, 400 years of oppression, a black man could not exist. Like I want you to really think of a black man could not exist, right? You could be a black male but you can't protect nothing. You definitely can't provide because you're somebody else's bitch. A black woman could still exist. You could still nurture. You could still, you know what I'm saying, do your part even in an oppressive situation. But think of how lost you are in that though as a black woman. Even though I can do my part, I can't do it for you. And I was made to do it for you. So do it for you versus do it at all. We couldn't do it at all, especially not for you. For me, this conversation is specifically about us. It's not about, I don't care why Billy and Sharon. Happy Black History Month. You know what I'm saying? So you're familiar with Kevin Samuels? Of course. You're trying to try to kill me because we could... No, no, no. I want your thoughts on his ministry. Ministry. That's the word. Talk to me. How do you feel about him? How do you feel about his message? How do you feel about, you know, the coverage of it, the backlash or whatnot? Ministry. I think he's very entertaining. I've definitely watched him before. I think he has a lot of good things to say. I feel like his tactic is not fair though, like his arguing style, which I mean, he can do it because you know, his platform, but I would love to see him go to bat like on a panel or whatever, like where it's like free range for everybody and there's no buttons to push and no one to cut off or whatever like that. But I mean, it's entertaining. What do you disagree with about, you know, concerning his rhetoric? Like, what do you think he says that is wrong? I would have to get an example, exactly. I mean, so he, a woman who called this show and he'll be like, you know, she height, will she dress size, will she weight? Listen to that. And he'll essentially try to boil them down to a number to ascertain whether or not they're compatible with the type of man that they want. Do you feel like that is, that makes sense? Or do you feel like it's completely off? I like the fact that he makes things like how you're trying to say, take the romance out of it, makes it realistic or whatever like that. I'm not mad at that. Delivery be entertaining. But on paper, it makes sense sometimes. But in reality, like, you'll see people who are quote unquote tens with twos all the time. So you can't really go by that, you know what I'm saying? We always say who we think should be together. But does that always how it ends out to be? No, it don't. Well, so, and I was, I was speaking to some college students earlier today. And one of the things we were talking about was the difference between possibility and probability. And unfortunately, particularly in our community, a lot of people combine the two. And it's like, just because something can happen, they think it will happen. Right. And what Kevin does and what men tend to do is like, we tend to crunch the numbers. So like, there are tens with twos, right? But is that the rule or is that an exception? I don't know. I see it a lot. It's not. It doesn't happen. I do see it a lot. A lot of twos fuck tens. But as far as end up with them, it's not common. No. I see a lot of tens run through other tens and settle with twos. You said a lot, though? Yeah. A decent number. So when you when you think like a, like a throw it all in there together type deal, like you might see some tens with tens, tens with twos like. You mean men or women? Men. Men standards go to me. Men standards like go lower. So the dudes are tens and they end up with twos? To me. Okay. Okay. So what do you consider a ten? Some actually women do it too. Yeah. I see it a lot actually. Okay. Let's talk about it. What do you consider a ten as a guy? So I was definitely going looks wise. I would have liked that. I'm pretty sure like on paper, it all tends together. But when you just look at like image wise, I see a lot of people I'm like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have put that together. You know what I'm saying? Then when you get to know, it's like, okay, he found you at this place. He was good to you. Da-da-da. It makes sense or whatever like that. Or you dated a range of people. This is what made sense at the end, you know, or you knew this person from da-da-da. You know, I study relationships. So, yeah. So why do you think, why do you think those tens, tens dudes end up with twos? I feel like it's an emotional tie. I feel like the two might have knew how to get in there more emotionally where he might have been. Sometimes I feel like men don't understand like they're like, you know how you say men are like more realistic and women are more into romance or whatever like that? I feel like men need a little tap of like romance or something. Because I just feel like I was just talking to my homeboy or whatever. And I was like, bro, like you're a decent looking guy or whatever like that. You got a decent job. I can see you going further in life. But every time I see you with a chick, I'm just like, this just don't like, she just, I don't know. She just doesn't match period. But I realized if I keep talking to him, he kept opening up to me. I was like, oh, you don't see yourself this way. You don't see your potential either. So in your mind, this is the girl that you trust. This is the girl that you feel comfortable with. If you were with somebody on your caliber, you would probably freak because I don't know. And I've dated guys who, quote unquote, insecure or whatever like that. And it's just like, you're not comfortable. You know what I'm saying? It don't matter what you tell them, don't matter what the truth is, they're in their mind. And so I feel like a lot of guys go understand that. I feel like some women go understand it because you know, the whole ugly guy, I treat you better type deal and all that type shit. So I feel like that. But I also feel like a lot of people are not with who they want to be with. Okay, talk about that. I feel like a lot of people are relationships and that is not the person that they, now it might be ideally who they need to be with. You know what I'm saying? But I don't feel like that's where they, if they had a choice, that's where they'd be. Do you think that happens more so with men or women? Everybody. Why though? Like why? I feel like a lot of people aren't honest with themselves. I feel like a lot of people that opportunity passed them by. You know what I'm saying? Fear is real. You know? And once again being comfortable, it's like I would have loved to leap over there, but this shit is comfortable. This ain't going nowhere. You could, you could, I even have done it. It's like you could, you could fuck me up. I ain't going over there. You know what I'm saying? So I have a theory. I think it's primarily because our timelines are different. What do you mean by that? Women, for all intents and purposes, their timeline is based on biology. Because I think women understand that, you know, I got so many years until I'm going to be a high-risk pregnancy. Oh, you got Kevin Singles in here too. You see what I'm saying? So like, and I think nature understands that. And then men, we like, we don't have the same timeline as y'all. My timeline is based on my ability to provide, right? True. And most men don't hit their stride until like their thirties. So me and a lot of dudes I know have given up on the quote-unquote girl we love the most. Why? I hate that for y'all. I feel like that's the dilemma. Because, so I'm not a huge biblical person, right? Okay. It's clearly because I mentioned the Bible a couple of times where you have I'm not a huge biblical person, but I come from that and I understand it. Before God gave Adam Eve, he gave him purpose. He gave him work, right? So as a man, I think on a subconscious level, we understand we need to go find our purpose first before we can be or do anything for you. And I think a good man will understand that I need to leave her alone to go either find a man who's ready for her or live her life while I pursue my purpose. But why are you in a mess with her in the first place? It doesn't always happen the way that we want it to. It might have just been serendipity we met, you know what I'm saying? And the split the vibes, the vibes were there. And you know what I'm saying? We got to know each other and this and that. But at the same time, if it's a good dude, you know, he'll have that conversation and be like, yo, I can't be this for you right now because I can't even be it for myself. So I think- But what happens to the whole you help me situation? No, you're supposed to help me grow what I've already built, not build. And that's what I think a lot of people get mixed up. It's supposed to help me cultivate what I've already built. So break down what's been built then. But that's what I'm saying. That's why he's got to go find his purpose. That's why he already has to be moving in a direction. That's a reason a lot of women, especially in our community can't respect men because you see men aimlessly wandering around. No plan. No plan. What am I going to help you with? Yeah, that's not as different. You see what I'm saying? So I'm encouraging men to go out there and find your purpose. Go find your garden. And then when you get your ease. I'm not mad at that. But I feel like let's talk about this too. Because a lot of younger women that I know, they say a lot of the guys that they're dating right now are depressed. Why are so many men depressed? Because we took away men's purpose. So right now, the demographic with the highest suicide rate, or highest growth in suicide rate, I don't remember the exact phrase or whatever, is white men. White men are actually killing themselves at the highest rate right now. And when they studied it, they realized that it's because of the shifting demographics in the country. And white men's utility used to be very clear and defined. But you're shutting down the coal mines, the factories, you're taking away the trucking jobs. And these were the foundationary jobs of a lot of these men. So you took away their purpose. If I can't provide or protect, I'm nothing. And I think that's the part women don't necessarily empathize with. If you ask anybody across the world, what is a man's job? Provide, protect, provide, protect. And we've drilled that into our boys. So when they grow up and they realize they can't, either they escape literally, or they escape into the metaverse, 2K, call of duty, and we don't understand how deep it is, especially for black boys. That's why they're depressed. They have no purpose. I hate that, though, because just how do you have no purpose? Like, where could you, you can't build, find, create. That's not everybody's ministry. And I think the service that social media does to us created this idea that everybody could be an entrepreneur. Everybody is a creative. Everybody is not true. These are exceptional people. So when we're talking about like the majority of people, majority of people are going to be depressed because of it. Yeah, that is true. I've walked in, I've talked to people and they're like, they don't have a creative on their body. I couldn't understand it. And I think, you know, kudos to women and kudos to black women, because women find ways to make themselves useful. You have to remember this. Oh, it's our nature, too. Exactly. This is the first time in history, there's no great war, men are fighting. There's no great industry that men are building. There's no great farms made or had handed down to them. For the longest time, you didn't have to worry about what your job was going to be. Your dad was a farmer, you're going to be a farmer. Your dad was a mechanic, you're going to be a mechanic. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. But now it's like you got boys in the world just wandering aimlessly, particularly black boys. That's true. And then they get on social media, they see the baby. They see a money bag, you know, flossing off of nothing. Yeah. And they know that that's what the women want. And then they have to turn to, you know what I'm saying? Scamming. That's like many to be more creative, too. Like going back to what you said earlier about what type of man I would be, in this world, I would be creative. You know what I'm saying? There's not always just one way to do something. And I feel like that's my biggest blessing I don't take no for an answer, I'm going to find the yes. Like I hate that people just run into a door and they're like, I'm depressed now. Like I can't sit in depression. But that's because you're a woman. What you mean? There's plenty of depressed women that I know. Yeah, but not as many as men. And the reason I say that is physically, mentally, emotionally, women are created to be flexible. Men are created to be rigid. How you have to you have to think how were men back in the day able to run full speed into another group of men who have swords, knives, daggers, spears, knowing they're going to die? They had the heart for it. And that's the point. That heart is a rigid, stoic, determined, run through a wall heart. It's not a flexible find a way heart. That's a female trait. And that's the power that y'all have that I feel like men can learn from. But to just automatically feel like men should be that. I think that's doing us a disservice. Well, I don't want to automatically make you be something, but it's just me offering it to the table. Like, look at it this way. Like, stop. That's her ministry. That's her ministry. You don't see, like, stop just looking at it this way. Like, use my eyes because women are supposed to give you vision as well. Like a man is usually just lost without his woman. So that's the case. Look at it this way. Like allow, I feel like that's another thing. Allow me to sit at the table as well sometimes. Like the whole submission thing is cool for the bulk. But if I'm supposed to be helping, let me help. What does that look like? What does help look like? Part of what I just said. For one, helping you be more flexible. You can be rigid. That's nice. We're going to need that, you know? But if we can be flexible, you know, if you don't have to die at war, and I can find a way to save you, why not let me? I think I agree with you, right? I think it's tough, though, because manhood is all about dying. This is what I mean by that. Manhood, manhood is all about dying well. Let me put it like that. Die with honor. Yeah. The reason why, you know, men would die at war is because they knew that, you know, for all intents and purposes people remember them well. The reason why men get to a certain age, they start caring about legacies because they know that I've created something that will outlive me, right? So manhood, true manhood, remember, protect and provide. Protect means I'm supposed to jump in front of a bullet for you. Provide means I'm supposed to break my bones, callus my hands, to work myself to the bone, fuck my passion to provide for you. But I feel like I love all of that, right? But going back to giving you a story, growing up, it was me and my brother, right? And my mother sat me aside from my brother and she made sure she told me, your brother's here to protect you. Don't get your brother in a bullshit. So what that meant to me is also to protect him. That means don't just go run crying about any old thing when you know he can run out here and lose his life behind it, trying to protect you. So it is still my position as woman to protect you as well. So you can't close that door on me because you're rigid. Because now you're not letting me do my job. And that's where I feel like the communication is cut because there is none. Now I have no place because you're trying to be Superman and I'm here to help. I think, and I've been preaching this a lot recently, like black women need to give black men a lot more grace than they do. How? And this is what I mean. Remember, like I said, the two rules of manhood is providing, protect. Yes. The rule for womanhood is like nurture, caretaker. Different things like that, right? When we look at the context of white supremacy slavery for 100 years of oppression, a black man could not exist. Like I want you to really think about it. No, I understand. A black man could not exist, right? You could be a black male, but you can't protect nothing. You definitely can't provide because you're somebody else's bitch. A black woman could still exist. You can still nurture. You can still, you know what I'm saying, do your part even in an oppressive situation. But think of how lost you are in that, though, as a black woman. Even though I can do my part, I can't do it for you. And I was made to do it for you. So do it for you versus do it at all. We couldn't do it at all, especially not for you. We couldn't do it at all. So some people will still do it, I feel like. Yeah, and they die. Maybe not. Yeah, they did. It's all they did. I'm talking about on the macro. So the grace I'm talking about is not necessarily the grace of... Oh, I know he played 2K all day, but one day he'll become a CEO. No, it's not grace. That's stupidity. Yeah, it is not grace. I'm talking about the grace of... I understand that this man has been emasculated ever since he came out of the womb. Everything around him is telling him either he's not a man or he's an insignificant or impotent man. Unfortunately, in our community, you know who says that the loudest? Who? Our women. My mothers, my sisters, my woman, my own woman, my daughters are the main ones telling me I'm not man enough. Put that in a historical context. How do you think that must feel for black men? Especially for the ones who are actually doing what they need to do. Because what's messed up is if the man is out there grinding, getting what, you know what I'm saying, providing or whatever, the complain is he doesn't have enough time for me. If a man has all the time for you, the complain is he's not grinding hard enough. You see what I'm saying? Like there's always something to tell us that we ain't shit or we're not enough. You don't think we get that too? Explain that to me. Break that down. We get that in every way, from the way we dress to the way we talk. We can't do anything good enough, but we're the only ones who do shit good enough. For us or for white supremacy? For the world, honestly. And for you too. Even like because you've been emasculated, right? And because I have had room to still be nurtured in a way by the world, right? Because we do have grace. We have more grace than you have. I will say that in this world. But because of that, right? Now I'm your enemy in your eyes. Now I could never be your equal because you're already fighting yourself before you can even get to me and forget what I have to say. You know what I'm saying? Forget if it's actually true. I'm already the enemy. And now because I can sustain a job or have anything that you probably wish you could have given to me versus me going out and getting, now even more the white men's like, like what's her name? Tina Turner. Seeing for the white man all day. You know what I'm saying? She could never be good enough for that man. Never. You know what I'm saying? So if you don't get out of your own head we can't grow. You can't be mad at me because we came over here on a slave ship and I had to upper hand in this motherfucker. I still got raped and beat too. I still had to watch you get raped and beat. That's fucking your mind up too, don't you think? So we both have to grow from this place. I have to upper hand. What can we do with that? What do you think, before I respond, what do you think? Because you just named what we need to do as men. And I kind of... I said us together, but yes. Well, y'all got to get out of your own head. Exactly, yeah, yeah. So specifically to us, we got to get out. What do our women have to do? For one, like you said, the grace, understanding, coming from a place of understanding, which all starts from communication, which is not being had, like we said. But just understanding. And I feel like women have to pour into the right men. Because what we congratulate is what will continue. Like how you said with the baby and all them, if it weren't for us wanting the ice and all that, y'all wouldn't be killing each other, trying to get it. You know what I'm saying? So if we understood the power that we hold, then things would go a lot differently. But that means women got to come together too, which is another whole category. God knows. Or whatever like that. So I feel like me got to get out of their heads and learn how to weed. Like I feel like, I don't know, if I was a man on the opposite end with nothing to offer, like you say, whatever like that. And I got attached to a woman who did have it. I'd be figuring how to take this shit to the next level. I'd be figuring out how to be useful. You know what I'm saying? And even in a useful in a way where you could still, because I understand what you're saying. Some women, you get in there and they're going to emasculate you. And most are because you're in a position to be emasculated. You know what I'm saying? But use your head. While you're overthinking and being the enemy, why don't you figure out how to be the hero? I think it's tough when you, like somebody like me, I've committed myself to black people. So that means that no matter how hard shit gets, I'm a riot for us, right? And I think it's very similar to if you commit to spending money with black-owned businesses. On his face, it sounds good, but it's your food ain't going to come out in time. That that car ain't going to be fixed right, necessarily. You know what I'm saying? He might say it's two weeks. It might take four, right? And you have to have the grace and the understanding that he hasn't been in business for 50 years, like the white man out of the street, different things like that. I see what you're getting at. And the reason I bring that up is because what you're seeing is that men who are, or even the men who are, quote unquote, high value, high quality, men that should be leaders, men that should be followed, revered, submitted to the whole nine, still don't get it. What you mean don't get it? They don't get that type of treatment from our women. So why is that? Because what we're hearing is once you make six figures, once you're a six-foot, once you're handsome, once you're charismatic, once you're going wild. I know a lot of men who push women out on their lower level, who have women who will fucksuck, have been already being bed by eight o'clock and that will give them all of that. And they're like, no, not you. You know what I'm saying? No, you're right. So I feel like that is fantasy, like a facade. That's social media. That's Instagram. No, no, no. Both happens. Both happens don't get me wrong. But I'm just seeing like that realism. And especially for the women that we want, you know, because the fucksuck there you go, thank you. You guys are an in-girl in your head for who you want to get that from. And if you're, that also goes back to men and their discernment, which I feel like some really have poor discernment, you know, whatever like that. I agree with that. But that goes back to you. Like, why are you, why is she the in-girl to you? You know what I'm saying? Like, outside of the way she looks, where is her mental? Where are her morals? Will she raise children properly? Or are you just thinking with your other hand right now? What I want to ask you is, why do you think so many of those men are complaining though? Do you feel like it's just their experience? You think it might be bigger than that? I think they want the fantasy. I think they want the bitches. They want... I don't know what I'm saying is, like a lot of times, when I have this conversation, people would say, Oh, it's the girls you're picking. Oh, it's the girls you're associating yourself with. What they're not understanding is, that's not the case. What's the case? It's the girl who ranked up my groceries at the grocery store. It's the nurse at the hospital. It's the woman on social media. Our culture has created a certain woman and replicated that archetype of woman. So whether or not I'm dealing with them on a romantic level, I still have to come in contact with them. And that's not okay. So it's simple for me to say, Oh, I'm not just... What is it that y'all want? What are you going to treat y'all like exactly? These everyday women, how do you want them to respond to you? People. Like what? People. Treat you like people? What are you treating me like? Suspects. Damn, for real? Your own people? And that's the worst part. Are you serious? Like, what do you mean by that? I'm so serious. So what I mean by that is, if you are a black man, and I'm not just speaking for myself, I'm speaking for other men that I know. Yeah. And men in my circle all make six figures, all do well for themselves. Yeah. You're such an anomaly to them that you must be either gay or fake. I understand what you mean by that now. And there's an initial suspicion. Yeah. Like one of my boys recently, we actually did an interview, his name's poetic style on Instagram. But he told a story about how him and one of his boys were in the strip club. And because one of his boys had like a suit on and, you know, he was clean, he had no kids, you know what I'm saying? He made good money. They were asking him like, y'all gay, y'all came in together? And for a lot of black men, including myself, if you're on the street narrow, if you're doing, you know what I'm saying? The right things you're supposed to be doing, you will be questioned, particularly even we need to talk when I was running it in college. Like, there was always resistance. With what? With the women that was a part of my organization. Same thing when I was in charge of NAACP, there was always, maybe you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. There's always that underlying, maybe you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I think some people are just combatives. I get it too. And what I'm saying, what I'm saying to you is, the image of the combative person, at least for black men like myself, is the black woman. Yeah. And that hurts. Well, you know there's a lot of hate between us. There's a lot of love between us too, but you know there's a lot of hate between us. There's a lot of resentment. Like, we talked about that already. And there's a lot of like ego, a lot of proving to the other. You know what I'm saying? But I always say, certain things start with the woman, but a lot of things start with men. Like, men don't understand the power that they have either. I feel like because you feel like you have none, you feel like you have none. And that's not true or whatever. Like, I feel like a black woman would easily and more than anything want to, because we usually stay within our race with dating, no matter how much shit we talk. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like it easy with submits. And even me, like people would say I'm combative. I easily, certain men I easily submit to. Have never, I don't down talk any men, for example, but never even like, went against in any way, a strong way or whatever like that. Or as soon as they said something, it gets it piped down completely. So I feel like men don't understand the power that they hold in the way that you carry yourself is important and how women respond to you. You can't just walk outside and be like, bitch, you're expecting me? Like, you got to walk in that. Now I know why I was suspecting. I wish that was the case. That's what I'm saying. I wish that was the case because, you know, for me, I start with men need to do better. Right. I start with before, like I said before, before she can follow you, you have to be going somewhere. Before she can help you, you have to be building something. So I start with that mindset. But when I have, when I have those experiences, when I have men who are on their shit also have those experiences, I'm like, it must be deeper than that. And what I think it is, and I think this was the brilliant play by white supremacy, they convinced all women that they would be better men. Oh, yeah. We get that. You know how many times people try to put me with a white man because I carry myself a certain way. They tell me that the man, like how you're saying, like you guys are like a unicorn or whatever. They tell me y'all don't exist. Every day. Either get with a white man or get an African. Like that, those are the options. Like if all those spells, bitch, date outside your race, get an African or whatever. So that dream is being sold to us daily. Even when you're like, they're treating you like you're gay or whatever like that. We've been raised that way, which is sad. But it's always been like, he's over 30 with no kids, which is toxic too. Because it's like, wouldn't you be happy to meet your equal with no kids? Then y'all could like grow from that point and have a child or whatever like that. But it's like, you kind of want to, you already expect the drama. You already expect the bullshit. So that's why.