 And then, but today, we have a very young John Kuhabu, who is a faculty member in art, and in quality. She has been really busy, but not here the last several years. While she's a professor here, she took, I guess, an official leave and spent two and a half years, over an inch of her doing a range of projects. And I think we're going to hear at least about part of it, because I'm sure she did more than just what she's going to talk about today. It was a very large and engaged project, but I know many of us have been keen to find out what at least some of the things were said. We're very lucky to have her here, so please welcome John Kuhabu. Christine, thank you very much. And I have to warn you, in fact, I'd like to talk not only about my John Mon case study, but also about other sub-projects under the big project. So you may think I'm a bit crazy with all the sub-projects, but hopefully it makes sense to you. And I want to start with a little bit of why I decided to do this project, that as most of you know, my specialty is Jomon archaeology, the Jomon culture, is the prehistoric hunter-gatherer culture from about 16,000 to 2,500 years ago. It's often cited as an example of so-called complex hunter-gatherers, like California and Northwest Coast native hunter-gatherers. And it's a great opportunity to study the correlations between subscientism, subsistence, intensification, social complexity, and there's a large amount of archaeological data. And I have to tell you, Japanese archaeology is not only about the great data source, it's also so closely tied to the social-political context that history of post-Second World War archaeology in Japan is closely tied to rapid economic development. And for the past 50 years or so, building trains, bullet trains, freeways, dams, houses, there were always archaeological excavations. So my first excavation goes back to 1969, when I was 10 years old, and I have to emphasize I beat Pat Koch for starting my archaeology a bit earlier than he did. That's what I said at my job interview, and I almost didn't get this job. But Pat was kind enough to accept that. So this was 1969, my first excavation. That was a time when there were so many land developments in the suburb of the Tokyo area. So pretty much all the archaeological sites in the suburbs of Tokyo were either destroyed or excavated. And Japan has this law that emphasizes that all the archaeological sites dated to before the mid-19th century need to be excavated, whether it's on the private land or public land. So up to the mid-1990s when Japanese economy was still growing, archaeologists were able to do rescue excavations for the entire site area. This is an example of a large-scale excavation that a planned baseball stadium area turned out to be a large Jomon site. And we were able to preserve this site with the help of local residents. But that was up to the 1990s that the economy in Japan is much more grim right now. This is probably one of the last really large-scale excavations prior to a dam construction. This is the best final Jomon site, waterlogged with all the organic remains. But there's very little preservation movement. Many archaeologists are actually afraid to speak up that this site need to be preserved because of the pressure from the government. So Japanese archaeology looks quite grim, that this shows the total excavation cost that the peak was in the mid-1990s. Now we get less than half of what we used to be able to use. Admittedly this is all for rescue excavation. But this also means that there are less jobs in Japan that the number is going up a little bit because of the conservative government pouring in more money for construction again. But I won't last. So after the Tokyo Olympic in 2020 guaranteed there will be less positions in Japan. This really shows the paradox of Japanese archaeology. It did make a lot of fantastic discoveries, large-scale excavations, but that was so closely tied to the destruction of the environment, landscape, and archaeological sites. So up to the 80s, archaeologists basically said, well, there's not much else we can do, all we can do is to take part of the rescue excavation so that at least we can preserve the record. But the more I think about that, the more I began to think, I don't want to be part of the site that are always working with large construction companies that are always destroying archaeological sites. So I began to think what I can do with the archaeological data that I have. And the Big Baseball Stadium site, the Sanai Maruyama site, is a great opportunity for us to understand long-term changes and was occupied for about 1600 years. And there what I saw was a gradual subsistence specialization, focusing more on plant food, is what I think, and how that was tied to population increase and decrease. And when I talked about that to people working on environmental issues today, when I said subsistence intensification, very few people are interested in it, but when I said, well, the loss of food diversity, then all of a sudden people working on contemporary issues said, oh, that is very interesting. So that made me think that, OK, that might be a way to go to explain the importance of my work to non-archaeologists. And part of my research interest that I'm going to talk about today is closely tied to what happens when people lose food diversity. How is it tied to the resilience of society and how that ties to population size, mobility of people, goods and information, which I think are all closely tied to the development of social inequality. So looking at contemporary issues, a lot of people are talking about the importance of local autonomy, diversity and net worth, which I think can be tied back to what we can learn from archaeological data, that what I want to say through my archaeological data is that when people lose food diversity and when people think that it's the best way to do things efficiently, for a short period it may work. But in the long run, unless you have some backup plans, you can make a very vulnerable system to minor or major environmental disasters or other triggers. And that I think is also relevant to the Japanese society today that this is a population estimate. There's a lot of debate about what's going to happen to Japan in the next half a century that the population peak hit was 2010. And in the next 50 years, it will be down to less than 100 million. And in a little bit more 100 years, we may be back to the level of even the 19th century. And this is because there are very few immigrants coming into Japan. And I think there's a lot of debate about the current situation and particularly the political situation, what happened to this country yesterday. I think a lot of people are concerned what's going to happen in the long run in this country and in different parts of the world. And Japan has its own unique situation, but in the big picture I think what Japan is facing in terms of environment, population, food supply. So what I want to say is archaeology can help to think about these issues. So with that in mind, I applied for a three-year project in Japan titled long-term sustainability through place-based small-scale economies approaches from historical ecology. And we got about $2 million for three years. I got very excited and I thought I could do a lot. So I split it up into many sub-projects. What I didn't realize was that the Japanese government's bureaucratic systems are so complicated. So splitting them up into smaller projects means a lot of administrative work. And I think I learned my lesson, but I'm not regretting because I learned so much from individuals of projects. So it's divided into three groups. The first one is what we call long-dury group that deals with archaeology and part of environmental studies. The second one is contemporary society group and the third one is implementation outreach and policy proposal groups. The goal of this project is to examine the importance of small-scale and diversified economies, especially food production for long-term sustainability and to examine the correlation between food diversity, scale of economy and community, and resilience of human-environmental interaction and based on the results to make construction suggestions for sustainable future. The theoretical background is coming from mainly historical ecology but also from related fields with an emphasis of human impacts on the environment and anthropogenic landscapes, emphasis on historically unique trajectories of human socioparticle systems in different parts of the world and processes operating at different temporal scales from short-term events to long-term changes. And when I say long-term, I'm talking at least hundreds of years, if not more. And when I say small-scale economy, a lot of people say, well, what they're talking about, the world is a global society that everything is connected. What's the point of talking about small-scale economy? But I'm not saying that we should establish an isolated small-scale economy of course we know that it's connected to the global economy but the range of networks that enable food production, distribution and consumption in a given locality without precluding links to the outside economy. That through our research, we talk to a lot of people who are living in relatively rural environment, those who are working in traditional communities. Of course they're connected to the rest of the world. And when we're talking about archaeological society and community scale, of course we know that they are all connected to the rest of the world. So we put a lot of emphasis on three concepts, diversity in networks and sovereignty or local autonomy, which are all linked to the issue of scale. And from there we can talk about sustainability and resilience, environmental management and landscape and the role of traditional ecological knowledge. So this was a diagram a little bit modified, but basically the diagram that I was using when I talked about archaeological data and by emphasizing the importance of diversity, network, scale and local autonomy, we can make this as a diagram from a very objective description of what happened in the past to something that we can really emphasize the importance of particular aspects of contemporary society. We are also looking at the adaptive cycle model coming from resilience theory that the resilience theory emphasizes the phase from exploitation to the rapid growth to conservation, which then leads to the release of the phase where you often see population decrease and then the reorganization phase. And according to the model, the shift from conservation to release is inevitable, but that doesn't mean that the change has to be catastrophic. So how can we make it as a soft landing and think about the next phase? That's what we need to do in contemporary society and to do that archaeology has the strength to really look at long-term changes. Our data are coming from both sides of the Pacific Rim, mainly from northeastern Japan and the west coast of North America. Although we've got several sub-projects that are not really fitting into this context, but the big part of our data are coming from the two areas and Japan and comparative studies mainly from the west coast of North America for the three groups. And the laundry group with a focus on food and subsistence diversity, human impacts on the environment and demography. For Japan, we have several locations, but our big focus is on our more prefecture, where I've been working on archaeological data from our more prefecture for the past almost 20 years. And for the west coast, our Kent Lightfoot is doing archaeological work on Point Rays and Union level in National Historic Park. And we've got Kent Names working on lower Columbia River area, Collingreea from Gulf Island. And we also have data from Canadian Arctic from Jim Savelle at McGill. So first I want to show where we are at with my archaeology. At San Maruyama and its vicinity, and I'll see how much time I have to explain the rest of the project. So for San Maruyama and other sites in our more prefecture, we take that as a great opportunity to examine short and long-term changes in human-environmental interaction. We started with a hypothesis that highly specialized subsistence strategies can support a larger population for a short period, but a decrease in subsistence diversity makes society more vulnerable in the long run. And this hypothesis is coming from the Jomon data that shows a steady population increase up to the middle Jomon, but a decline from the middle Jomon to the late Jomon. Admittedly, this is, this simulation is based on a number of assumptions. It was done almost 30 years ago. So it's about the time to redo this population estimate. But the general trend I don't think will change much. When we look at the population history on the Japanese archipelago, you see that there are only four times that we see major population decrease, and the middle Jomon is the first one. So to understand the mechanisms of how this happened can really help to think about the demography in Japan and in other parts of the world, not only about hunter-gatherer society, but to think about the correlations between food and subsistence diversity, population and other factors. So the Sanay-Maruyama site is on the northern tip of the main island of Japan. As I said, it was supposed to have been a baseball stadium, but the local people took pride of the fact that this site was found in their hometown. So it is currently a national historic park and they're trying to get into the list of world heritage sites together with several other Jomon sites. Now, the site occupation lasted from about 5,900 to 4,300 years ago. And a lot of people said, well, the end of the site occupation coincided with the cooling climate, the so-called 4.3K event, the Bond 3 event. So a lot of people said cooling climate was the cause of the population decrease at the site. And interestingly enough, the end of the site occupation also coincided with the timing when you see the end of many other large settlement occupations in the area all the way to northeastern half of Japan. In the big picture, it looks convincing that these bars show AMS dates from Sanay-Maruyama up to 2004. And it seems to be about right 4.2K or 4.3K event that is shown from the data of ice core temperature. But when we started looking at the data, we realized that wait a second, the end of the site occupation might be around that time, but a major decrease in the number of pit dwellings occurred much earlier. Number two, even if climate change was related to this, we still need to explain how did it happen. So we started looking at lithic assemblies data, the number changes in the number of pit dwellings, and changes in ritual artifacts, such as clay figurines. One limitation of Sanay-Maruyama data is that on the site has very uneven preservation conditions but we do have fauna and flora data from the first half of the site occupation up to here. But for the part where you see really a large number of pit dwellings, the preservation condition of organic remains is unfortunately very bad that we do not have macro flora and fauna remains from here on. So that gives us a difficult situation to rely solely on fauna and flora remains analysis. So what do we have instead is a lithic assemblies data that we can look at changes through time all the way to the end of the site occupation. So looking at this, the first thing you can notice is that the number of pit dwellings go up and down and even though Sanay-Maruyama is known as the largest German settlement, in fact, for each phase, the only two phases that are associated with definitely more than 50 pit dwellings is only two phases, the upper end of E and upper end of D. And the second thing that I noticed was that lithic assemblies characteristics changed dramatically that initially the site was associated with a lot of flake tools such as stem scrapers which a lot of people thought were used for processing fish. And you see a gradual increase in the proportion of what we call grinding stones which we think are plant food processing tools. And then there are three phases with just grinding stones pretty much dominating the lithic assemblies. And all of a sudden pretty much all the grinding stones disappeared and we do have a lot of arrowheads and there's a little bit of back to the grinding stone site at the Sibana phase but eventually grinding stones pretty much all disappeared and that's the end of the site occupation so just give you the sense. Initially we had all these and then we started to get a lot of grinding stones and then we had several phases with just grinding stones and then all of a sudden they all disappeared and the patterns are shown nicely in this correspondence analysis. We don't even actually need stats like this that if you look at the graphs it's pretty clear how the lithic assemblies changed. The pattern is robust. So in terms of archaeological findings we see changes in lithic assemblies occurred first and then the transition from upper end to D to E then followed by decrease in settlement size and decrease in the number of clay figurines. So if we take the characteristics of lithic assemblies as a reflection of subsistence activities then we could interpret this that the loss of food and subsistence diversity occurred first and then followed by the reduction in settlement size and changes in rituals. So this was where I was at before I went to Japan and we had lots of samples from Sanay Maruyama and we took a lot of soil samples for pollen analysis and others we didn't have enough money to process everything and we are also really short of AMS dates. So the first thing I did was to run AMS dates from different parts of the site that can be tied back to pottery phases so that we can nail down the dates. And this is an example of AMS dates coming from this particular column which are dated to the early half of the site occupation as you can see with the Bayesian calibration it lines up quite nicely that we are able to nail down the end of early Juman at around 5350 calibrated BP which is slightly older than what people thought of and we had samples from several other sites including Sanay Maruyama No. 9 site this was another waterlogged site and for this one we actually had waterlogged layers from the middle Juman as opposed to the early Juman so this partially compensates the lack of fauna and floral data from Sanay Maruyama proper. So with several other samples like this we were able to get much better resolution for clonology that the beginning of the site occupation doesn't change the end of the early Juman that we were able to nail that down what we just saw was coming right up here at the end of this and then this part seems to be much shorter than many people thought of and the peak of the population was probably around 4900 and then we see a decline over there so that's about 500, 600 years before a 4.3K event hit this area so the interpretation that 4.3K event was the cause of a major population decline looking at this data it looks like that a major population decline occurred several hundred years before the major cooling climate hit Japan now in the process of doing this we also had a lot of talk with a person who is an oxygen isotope specialist and was very interested in the impacts of long-term climate change versus short-term climate change and as most of you know 4.3K event that is a large scale, a major trend and one of the things that we wanted was more fine-grained environmental data and I was really hoping that the oxygen isotope data from tree rings would be on time but the guy is actually very busy with a later period right now so we probably have to wait for a while in the meanwhile we were able to obtain a marine coral from Hokkaido, southern part of Hokkaido so that is actually very close to our excavation and to our Sanai Maruyama site so we were able to get alkaline sea surface temperature and pollen data from there and as you can see the bottom half from there on are all different kinds of simulations of temperature data based on pollen the top part shows alkaline sea surface temperature data and as you can see 4.3K is shown clearly in all the different kinds of simulations based on pollen so that's good and that matches with the decline of the sea surface temperature up there so this shows a fairly clear pattern of 4.3K now what is intriguing me right now is that this dent actually seems to be matching with our Sanai Maruyama data around 4900 years ago see the disappearance of all the grinding stones so I haven't ruled out climate closely tied to the changes at Sanai Maruyama but at least it should be separated from 4.3K event in relation to that we were able to do another type of simulation study about Jomon population on the basis of solely on AMS dates from Japan now Japan is notorious for Japanese archaeologists really notorious for too much concern about pottery chronology and AMS dates were not actively adopted by Japanese archaeologists until the late 1990s several scholars from Europe came to Japan and asked why don't you guys use C14 dates and Japanese archaeologists are so proud and they said no pottery chronology is better so that was up until the mid 1990s but the discovery of the earliest pottery in Japan with AMS dates it turned out to be about 15,000 or 16,000 years ago that made many scholars think it's actually useful so once that happened many rescue excavations started to do at least a couple of AMS dates Enrico Crema from Cambridge did a simulation on the basis of only C14 dates and it's a neat statistical technique and of course if you have a lot of AMS dates from the same layer or from the same context then you count that as one and initially I didn't think it would show any meaningful patterns I thought the sample distribution is still too biased that I know that AMS dates are coming from still a very limited number of sites so I didn't think it would show clear patterns but it actually did and it did match quite nicely with the pottery data that we have so the left side is the results for the Kanto region which is central part of Japan near Tokyo where we know that a large number of large settlements are really concentrated during the middle Jomon period so we see rapid population increase and decrease it matches with the middle Jomon peak now Mori it's showing a different pattern that this doesn't take the size of site into account so this really shows how the number of sites changed in our Mori prefecture the northern part of Japan where Sanai Moriyama site is located so it did increase from 6,000 to about 5,300 that matches with the early Jomon part the first dent matches with the first dent that we see at Sanai Moriyama in terms of the number of p-dwellings that also matches with the regional trend the second dent matches with that 4,900 BP that we just saw at Sanai Moriyama and the third dent matches with the end of the middle Jomon and the last big dent is coming to the middle part of the late Jomon so this does not take the site size into account so if we do simulation with site size then the population estimate itself will be different but this really shows that actually this kind of analysis can be really helpful and the fact that people are talking about major decrease in site size and population estimate that traditionally scholars have been mixing up these three dents together and really not making a major, not making contrast with what was happening in the central part of Japan but with the data like this it looks like we have a lot of possibilities to talk about really fine grained changes through time one more exciting result that we got is the analysis of pottery that Oliver Craig at York did analysis of Sanai Moriyama and we just got this out in the Japanese Journal of Archeology and Kevin did the second round of analysis that we are waiting for the results to be coming in sometime soon the red dots show pottery and the blue ones are showing charred remains from Sanai Moriyama and the charred remain part is actually a separate story but I'm focusing on the red part initially we thought we don't see much differences but after the paper got published Oliver Craig actually said that well we do have the separation between the early Jomon data and the middle Jomon data and the early Jomon one shows more marine oriented food the sample size is still small but if we can get that confirmed with more data then that could be really helpful in terms of understanding changes in food diversity at Sanai Moriyama and the blue part is a different story but these are charred samples like these initially we thought they were coming from the inside of pottery but when we looked at the samples they really show initially we are looking for Parenkima but it really looked more like very fibrous some looked like even basket remains or something and the results show that these were all planned only so clearly these are different from the pottery residue and this is a mystery right now but we are also very excited to get that kind of result so we have a lot of ongoing projects from fine-grained chronology based on C14 dates examination of data on climate change residue analysis and we are still waiting for the results of GIS analysis of settlement patterns and polling analysis at each site the stabilizer analysis of human skeletal remains is a bit tricky one that we do not have many skeletal remains from our mori per se so what we can say is much more coarse-grained temporal changes from the early Jomon to the final Jomon we have more actually late and final Jomon data what we really want at this point there's a couple of more lines of evidence including starch grains analysis and fight lift analysis of stone tools that the Japanese group working on starch grains analysis are very conservative that they are not doing tax level identification that they are mainly looking at classifying them into different types which will still be okay in terms of looking at changes in diversity in the meanwhile Ludi and others working at Stanford and Australia the Canadian teams they are much more aggressive in terms of identifying starch grains so I'm hoping that there will be more discussion between the two groups working on this project made me think that we do need more information about the process of when the subsistence specialization or shift more towards plant food occur how did it occur and to think about that I began to re-examine data in terms of community layouts rituals and craft specializations which traditionally Japanese archaeologists tended to say that Jomon was pretty much egalitarian a little bit of evidence of social inequality for the late and final Jomon on the other hand when we look at archaeological data from the northwest coast what's been interpreted as evidence of emergent social complexity can be found as early as in the early Jomon when we see the shift the population increase and the shift towards plant cultivation so I think this is about the time that we look at the data for the transition from the early Jomon to middle Jomon again and we think about the possibility of interpretations I've got about 10 minutes left so obviously I don't have much time left to talk about other parts just to give you the glimpse for this is one of the 30 sub-projects that I'm doing under this and people are helping with many other sub-projects including our Kent Lightfoot that in the big picture I think what we are getting at is for California northwest coast we do not see a major population decrease and the big idea is that white food diversity really helped to maintain sustainable subsistence settlement systems and maintaining the community for the Canadian Arctic this is much later period but the case study from there indicated that loss of food diversity was followed by a major population increase the other two sub-projects are not really dealing with the big picture we are getting only a small portion of the big picture but for the Creoles and the eastern Hokkaido where Ben Fitzhugh is working he is really emphasizing social network is the key that when we see long distance trade the population, the community resilience seems to be much higher and Lake Baiko initially we thought we are dealing with subsistence intensification and loss of food diversity but stabilized isotope data seems to indicate that actually there is more food diversity than expected I'll just do the slideshow for the rest contemporary society we are doing a lot of sub-projects but here what we are getting is a lot of interesting interview results with an emphasis on traditional environmental ecological knowledge where people who are maintaining the knowledge which is also tied to food diversity this is one of our interviews in the mountainous part of Japan and as I said Japan is facing a major population decrease and rural parts are actually particularly severely hit by that but about 10 years ago a lot of people predicted that there will be a lot of villages that will be abandoned in 10 years and they are not abandoned they are still there just the average population age is getting higher but some of the retired people went back to their hometowns they are not disappearing and in the meanwhile there are a lot of expectations from the local community people what can we do to revive the communities and one of the things that we are doing is to interview their traditional ecological knowledge and how things used to work and this is a very good example of northern Japan where the mountainous area no rice paddy field until the 1950s and they didn't have much cash but they were never really in the situation where they had to go away during the winter to take wage labor that they were able to maintain the community and we are also interviewing about 20 farmers in Fukushima where it turned out to be the center of organic farming and we initially thought this is a case where traditional ecological knowledge was not good enough to maintain their subsistence activities but in fact traditional ecological knowledge and their ties to the land is what keeps them going it's also the thing to keep them still tied to the slightly contaminated area so it's complicated we were actually quite excited to get solid interviews of farmers from this area I'll just show you I don't really have the time a highlight of our project was when we invited a Squamish elder to an Ainu museum this spring and that did a basket-making workshop that he said that basically making baskets starts with planting trees that the technique of weaving is only a small portion that's really maintaining the forest and to know which plant needs to be used in what way that's really the main part of making baskets and that went really well with our work of agroecology that Miguel Altieri and others are hoping that Miguel was basically telling us making good soil is the core of maintaining food diversity it's not really growing plants and veggies per se it's the soil quality is really what matters so in the meanwhile we do have a group of people working on interviews of organic food production and comparing that with Japan very quickly implementation, outreach and policy proposal group this is where we have groups of people working on actual implementation outreach and policy proposals and when I said this I didn't even know what policy proposal means to be honest with you I didn't even know where to start but with the help of some local stakeholders particularly in Dakitakami mountains we were able to work closely with some of the people who can actually influence what's happening in the region we also did a lot of workshops in relation to archaeologists working on climate change including those on the SAA climate change committee as part of our project research we did get connected with IHOP and Carol Cromley put our project on the website so if you go to their website now a project is listed there and we also were able to put a work resolution in relation to our field work in Hokkaido and impacts of dam construction so we are considering developing an accord or set of principles to educate and guide interactions between archaeologists and extractive industries including mining dams and energy development this will be slightly modified but it will be there lots of different activities we put Kyoto Agroecology Declaration which is on the website of the project we did an acorn processing workshop with Wakchamp New York's people and Kent and Rob are working on reviving local traditional ecological knowledge with Amamutsun people so in conclusion, I know that I talked so much that you're probably thinking Junko is totally crazy but we got a lot of things done with archaeology that I was able to clear all the C14 dates pollen data and residue analysis that I wanted to do but I didn't have enough money now I got pretty much everything cleared and we got a lot of other sub projects going on and I think the best part of this project was that I was able to work with a large number of scholars who are concerned about contemporary issues and who really think that archaeology can contribute to think about current issues in the environment and society so with that, thank you very much yes, Bert you were doing lots of art and you didn't mention that on the call but in the last bad month I did that and you didn't like that part I don't know if you're familiar with Ron Lee's work on that Ron Lee, the demographer here at Berkeley oh yeah because he's got a really, this model that I like a lot it's called the math ratchet model and maybe models and those are correct and he's got this tension going between Malthusian increase but then you're closer up the end and then you decline and then you get the innovation with new kinds of technology so I'm just curious if you've looked at no I haven't yeah I think you might find it maybe useful because I'm trying to write up the archaeology with the southern only above sometimes why do you do the reference to this quote there's several pieces going on in particular okay that'd be very helpful so Dremel maybe you can just outline it so you've got all these different sub projects going on so what's your idea in terms of kind of pulling them together how are you going to do that let's see what we've got kind of the next major phase can you just kind of outline that if you want to be interested right now I've got too much data that my immediate goal is to write up the archaeology part that part yeah and for the contemporary society part we are planning a couple of volumes in Japanese so it'd be really good if we can get an English book out but I don't want to get it before it won't count for this university so we need to figure out this next way to put it together but I think there are enough people at the research institute who are interested in continuing a collaboration between Dremel and there and we're putting a big JSPS fund which is the equivalent of NSF over there so if we get that then we can continue the archaeology part for the ethnography part I was attached to the farmers in northern part of Japan and when I talked to them and asked them what can I do they said just come back don't leave a worry about me so I just come back and keep it so that's something that I feel not obligated but something that I want to do so I'm hoping to get a smaller amount of funds and we do not need a lot of money to continue that part we have an theory in as far as it's required I think pretty soon but he is very interested in pushing the archaeology so for that part we can definitely continue the collaboration and Africa of Capra we wrote the Tao Physics in the 1980s who was also into sustainability and through to diversity he's also interested in working with us so there are a lot of patients and any one hobby who can do that who can put in so many parts so that I can focus on the Joho part I think the idea was well accepted and I think I was able to make a cut into the possibility Japanese archaeology school that I did presentation of my paper just came out in Japanese and it won't be very popular but I think it will have impact on 20% Japanese archaeology's younger generation which I think is better than that Yeah, that's good Thanks Joho Thank you