 to the backstory on train noise and quiet zones in Longmont. My name is Tim Waters and as a volunteer for Longmont Public Media, I enjoy the good fortune of interviewing experts, activists, policy makers, government officials and community members on topics of relevance and interest to Longmonters. And today we are going to dig into or tell the story of a big deal, a significant project that's about to move forward in Longmont that will get the attention of almost everybody in town because of what it's going to require. But this is an opportunity to tell the story about where it comes from, why we're into it and what Longmonters can anticipate. So joining me in this conversation is Dr. Rick Jacoby. Welcome, Rick. People who will be viewing this out to know that you just took one hat off on as a practicing physician and have moved into a new chapter of life. I want to tell you it's a great chapter of life, chapter after full time employment. Jim Angstad, Jim is our chief, is Longmonts. I do this with my volunteer hat on. So I'll say Longmont's chief engineer, Tyler Samy is our traffic engineer. So if people haven't had a chance to work and meet with Jim and Tyler, you should know these are A-team, City of Longmont engineers and good people as well as a very highly skilled. And if you do know them, you can just affirm what I've said. So gentlemen, let's get into it. Let's start with where this conversation started. Personally, this conversation I was ever in about trains and train noise was with Rick Jacoby. So Rick, I'd like to start with where you started, at least with me in telling the story about train noise and why we're in this conversation. Sure, thank you. Well, we talked I think in 2018, but the story goes way back before that. It really started, I've lived in town for over 20 years, but it started for me in 2005 when a federal mandate came out to make the train horn louder and longer. And it was a big issue for the city at that point too, apparently, because the city did a survey asking, was this a problem? And something like half the residents said it was a serious or very serious problem. And the city actually said, well, look, we're gonna make quiet zones, which is a way to rebuild the intersections so the train doesn't have to blow its horn. And they said they would do it. They put it on the capital improvement plan, but as an unfunded project, and it's pretty expensive and it was convenient to forget, and it got forgotten for about 10 years. I got involved about 2015 when the renovation of the old turkey plant site came about and the city was working with the developer for them to pay for half of the quiet zone, compliant crossing at First and Emery. And I didn't know the full story at the time. I just saw that I was being RTB'd again. I've been paying taxes for about 10, 15 years. And all of a sudden my tax money was going to help somebody else with a quiet zone crossing down there. So I marched down to city council and I gave them a piece of my mind that public invited to be heard and said that, hey, we've been living with this and suffering with this for a long time. And I came away from that. I hit a nerve. I had a lot of neighbors and residents in the city come to me with, you can tell them and what can we do? We've got to change this, da da da da da. So we actually, a group of us met in my dining room and we talked about how to get involved and put a fire under the feet of the city government to get this done. And so since then we've met with Transportation Advisory Board. We marched in big groups to city council and we talked to city council at several presentations. And we tried to make it an issue with city council elections. We kept bringing it up with council members. And you may remember that, Tim, when you were first running that we tried to bring it up with everybody. And then after you were elected and others were elected, I brought the information back to council members. And I think that's when you contacted me. So it's been going for a long time. This has been, what's it now, 16 years? So that's kind of how we got to where we're at. Three observations. One is this is an affirmation of the value of perseverance, right? Persistence number one. Number two, that you turned RTD into a verb, right? And number three, for residents who think individuals or neighborhood groups can't make a difference. Sometimes it's not overnight, but it is an affirmation that you can have an impact. And in this case, it's going to be a big one. So thanks for getting us started. Who would like to tell some of the history here? I think it's useful. Rick made reference to what happened in 2005. Let's go back to when the train jams showed up in Longmont. Why was that important? And what were the concessions that had to be made to get a train to come through Longmont? Jim or Tyler, do you have that part of that story? Or Rick, any of you? Well, so when you want to talk history in Longmont, going back to the 1870s, there were no automobiles, horse, yeah, horse-drawn carriages. Bringing a train to town was a big thing. It was a big thing for transportation of not just people, but also of goods and services. So it was the big thing in town that we could get a train in that came in. So the concessions at that time was basically a property and you can see that in the ownership of the property today. The city conceded and actually didn't actually give up property, but gave up easements along at least from third up to ninth so that the railroad didn't have to come in and buy property. But looking back historically, that put Longmont on the map. That put Longmont on the map, that you had a train coming through and it has moved and still moves today a tremendous amount of goods. Throughout our history, we were a farming community just starting out and that's what, to sell your bring your stuff to market, to sell things, that's how you moved goods at that time. So the easements or the property rights were granted like in perpetuity, is that correct? As best as we can find in the record, yes. Looking back, they were all, nowadays you do stuff electronically, then everything was handwritten. Yeah. And for Longmont, to Loveland, to Fort Collins, the train, getting the train to come through town was like a lifeline, wasn't it? I mean it was the difference between surviving or not, potentially, to have that kind of commerce that was associated with the train. So there's a long, rich and valued history of the train in Longmont. So for, you know, 100 years, month plus, not big issues, but Rick made reference to what happened, what changed, that gave rise to some, the issues were now problems, we're not trying to solve. I think, a little bit more into that. A decision was made, was it 2005, Rick? Well, I think the feds made the decision before that, but before that it was up to the states to regulate train horns, I believe, and the horns, when I moved to the historic east side were definitely present, but not a big nuisance. But I think it was in Florida, they made a law that said the trains don't have to blow the horn at their discretion at night, because certainly it can be a big nuisance. And there was a big accident at night. And then the feds came in and said, look, we can't have this, we've got to make it safer. And they came with a standardized rule, but the train became much louder than the traditional train and much longer horn. And that's when it became a big problem. Tyler, you want to add to that? Yeah, so if I could add to that. So Rick, you, Rick's definitely up to speed on a lot of the history of that. So beginning about the 1970s, a lot of the communities starting, started enacting whistle bands. And that was really, Rick Mission, Florida, I think Chicago was one of the pioneers as well and implementing a lot of the whistle bands where they said, operator's train, sorry, you can't blow your horns, your whistle's coming through town. As a result of that, the FRA did see an increase in crash rates with trains. And I think that that was one of those big studies they did was to tie use of horn to crash rates at grade crossings. And there was a positive correlation made to, the horn does provide a safety benefit at those crossings. And first and foremost, the whistle is a safety tool. And really it's to help prevent those crashes at the intersections. And so when you talk about creating a quiet zone or taking away the whistle, that big safety tool, which is, it's very crude and rudimentary, but it's a direct feedback tool. The operator whistles the horn. He knows he has positive confirmation. The horn is working. It's about as easy as it can get for a safety tool. So in the FRA, in this case it is. I'm sorry, what's that? The FRA, you made reference to the FRA. Yep. Thank you. FRA Federal Railroad Administration. So they regulate the railroads. So local control over railroads is, it is not, not very much. FRA is the governing body over railroad decisions. Which I think is an important part of the story locally. As, as people have expressed their concerns, why doesn't the city council or why doesn't fill in the blank, the city manager or the chief engineer, somebody do something about that. Well, it has a lot to do with who's authorized to set those regulations. And in this case, the federal railroad administration because of what had happened across the country in terms of accident rates going on, right? So in Longmont, we've read, you read in the, the TC line or correspondence that council members get or just generally comments about how much people enjoy that the nostalgia associated with trains, train horns, right? So we've read about, I live in town and I've enjoyed that train horn for my entire life. I'm a native of Longmont. Why would anybody care about that? Right. I'm going to talk a little bit about your experience as a resident along the trail. And they're not just yours. What's the experience of people who, who live in proximity, who when they bought their homes, there was one set of regulations subsequent to the purchase of their homes, a new regulation, which changed your life a lot. Right. Right. You know, I train noise in a distance is a nice, whistful, romantic sound, but too much of a good thing is not a good thing. And I like a nice campfire too, but I don't put my hand in the fire, you know, living in old town, we have beautiful old homes, but they're a double-edged sword. The architecture is not designed for air conditioning. I have actually, my house was built in 1885. It's a lot of fun, but I have three gas heaters in the place trying to keep it warm here in, in January now. And to retrofit it for air conditioning would be very difficult. And, but I have 10 foot high ceilings and what the old, the pioneers did was they had high ceilings, the heat would rise in the summertime was very manageable because of the high ceilings. And what we do is we open the windows at night to let the hot air out and let the cool air in. And we open the windows at night to let the cool air in. Because we have, we're blessed with such lovely cool evenings here in the summer. And that worked fine until the train noise came along. And then now, I mean, I have neighbors telling me their, their kids are crying. Every time the train goes by. And it certainly wakes people up at all hours of the night. We just never know when it's coming. So it's been a big impact downtown, but I can tell you also, I'm hearing about it from folks on the West side. I'm hearing about it from folks all around the city. And it's amazing to me how you can have someone three blocks or two blocks from the train. Tell me, how come you're doing this and spending our taxpayers money. This is a ways to money two blocks away. And I have people, you know, a mile away from the train saying, thank goodness you're working on this. This is a huge nuisance. Our tolerance of noise is very variable. And how do we get people out of the train? And how do we get people out of the train? And how do we get people out of the train? Well, and noise, not just train noise. Noise. Is becoming a growing concern in terms of. The kinds of forms of pollution, right? That have serious effects. Real effects on people in a variety of ways. So as a resident. And as a volunteer at Columbine elementary school. When we could be at Columbine elementary school. And I was like, you're to be with to be in that school. I just, I was always amazed at how teachers. And kids in Columbine could just kind of carry on as the train. Would roll by and blast that horn. When for me, it's all you could do a stop. And the disruptions to the learning process. Were very disconcerting to me as. As I would be involved as a, as a leap as a volunteer. I would be involved. I would be involved. I would be involved. I would be involved. I would be involved. So. If I could say something, you know, it's interesting. I pointed out, we discovered in our research, when we were trying to. To lobby. City council to do something about this. There's a lot of data on train noise. And it's adverse impact on education. There's been studies where. A classroom next to a train. Is almost a year behind in reading. And then the next year they, they moved the classroom and say, switched them. And it negated the, the. Disadvantage of that. And so it's, it's really interesting. There's been many other studies too. And I could go into detail on that because we researched a lot of that. And I was surprised at how much. The impact of consistent noise can affect, especially developing kids. So we're, we're headed toward a solution. But before we get into the specifics of it. I just want to acknowledge that the solutions that, that long monitors will begin to see implemented. In 2021 and beyond. Or not universally supported. There are some issues here. And I think it's important to acknowledge. Number one, the process, the city's gone through. To get to a solution or an approach. And the trade-offs that happen. Jim. You were point person on a lot of this in terms of process and listening. And I just want to, I just want to, I just want to, I just want to, I just want to, I just want to get into the discussions with you and Tyler and, and other members of the city staff. Trying to get a sense, get the priorities from the community, what they are, what they're not. And then come up with a plan. That accomplishes something with, with respect to train noise, but also some other objectives that the city was trying to accomplish in terms of transportation. Talk us through. What the process was. So when we looked at quiet zones as a whole, you know, it's important to remember there are, are, I believe 17 crossings in the city and Tyler, you can jump in at any point. If I got the numbers wrong. And at various stages of, of kind of development. And in various areas of the city, some of them are going through kind of commercial industrial areas where their impacts for quiet zones or the, to the point where we were asked to present in front of council. And present a series of options for how to get. And move the project forward. And a project like this. We've done a number of studies. And Tyler had taken the lead. On, on how to implement. Quiet zones. We had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had to implement quiet zones. We had a number of costs. Cost analysis, the noise analysis. To move the project forward. So we had a lot of the, the work had been slow, but it had been moving forward. The hardest thing is, is the implementation of it because of the cost. With 17 intersections. Most cities are implementing quiet zones, but they only have one or two crossings. We've got 17. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Jim, just to talk about the 17 crossings, just to be clear, we're talking about the BNSF mainline that runs through town. Basically Ken Pratt, south of Ken Pratt on hover. Up along Ken Pratt. Up at one up through 66. It does not include any of the spur lines, the spur line that goes to lions or the spur, spur line that heads out east towards me. Those are not included in this, just to be clear on what we're talking about scope of the project. We're talking about the BNSF through town. From kind of the south, southwest. And then as you go kind of north. Going east and then north. But, you know, as we looked at it, you know, we did a series of public engagement meetings. And to offer up what, what, what type of, of improvement, safety improvement. Do you want to do the, the easiest and simplest and least expensive would be just close all the roads and have no crossings. And then the train can move through one of blood's horn is off. Certainly not a practical solution. In light of emergency services and movement of, of vehicles, pedestrians and bikes through town. So we threw out and looked at a number of options when we had our public engagement meetings of what type of crossings we would want to improve. What safety improvements do we want to do? We included a couple of closures where they were practical. As well as a series of double gates and street improvements that would help as well as the system to tie it all in so that the trains can communicate with the crossings. So that they would, would, would not have to blow the horn. One of the, the, the, as we were looking at our transportation system throughout the city, one of the, the other improvements that is currently ongoing is, is how to, how to move buses in a, in a more improved manner in conjunction with RTD and, and Dr. Cog, which is the Denver regional council of governments. They are an organization that helps fund and looks to multimodal projects and want to move buses around. So we, we've looked at the city has been trying for a number of years to get another crossing at Boston avenue to help trans move goods, again, people, goods, services. But the challenge with dealing with BNSF is they have a rather detailed manual that requires in part there's a requirement that for every one new crossing, you have to close too. So one of, of one of our plans is one of the other crossings, we were, we were going to close it. It's a dead end street has very little use. So we were looking at Tyler with the street was very street, very street between kind of the, the, it's just two blocks west of Maine. And so we were looking for another crossing and we were proposing fifth, sixth, one of the areas in the, in the downtown. And, and finally came to, to a recommendation to council, which we have to bring back in the future for that, but we were proposing to close fifth, which is certainly it is one of the least expensive options. So there are other, other considerations for what, what crossings and then there's also considerations as we implement in our project is where, where to start and how to move forward and get the biggest bang and the quickest bang. Because it's, it's also important to note that we will do the improvements. Okay, do the safety of improvements, but we still need to, to file with the PUC public utility commission, who is the governing body kind of of crossings and railroads in, in the state for a quiet zone. So we will be done with one or two of these intersections in the future. And we can take that next step to file with the PUC. What's also important to note, because this, as you can say, this is very convoluted, very confusing. Is that in the downtown area where you have crossings every 250 to 300, 500 feet. The train blows its horn a quarter mile before. So what you hear sometimes you hear, it depends on the, the engineer of the train. How he blows his horn sometimes he'll blow it with a couple of bursts as he approaches its intersection. A lot of times, and I've heard it at, you know, 430 on a Sunday morning, where he just holds onto that horn as he moves through town. So we can, we can institute some of these crossings and crossing projects in areas further north where it, you may then have a greater benefit. We're currently looking at handling the downtown in a, in a kind of the downtown area from third to ninth in an order, because that's where we see most of the impacts and most of the complaints. And that's actually the direction we got from council. But it's also, as we look at how we budget these, it may be beneficial to jump ahead to one of the other intersections, because that crossing will be less expensive to do. So we're, it is a, we're, we're trying to plan this as we move through. Currently we're, we're working in finalizing design. So that's kind of the current phase. We've been, we're almost completed with design on almost all of the intersections. And we've been working, and I don't want to jump ahead too far Mr. Waters in some of this. So I'll leave it at that for now. I'm just going to go ahead and get back to the next slide. And I'll go ahead and get back to the next slide. So we're at with the phase. We've got most of our design done. We're working towards it. So just to acknowledge, we're still not learning our way forward, but staging as we go forward. There's decisions and you've got to take stock and do that. What is the analysis of disruptions, costs, et cetera. And I, and I get that. I'm not trying to, I don't want, I don't want to, my intent is not to push you into sharing what you can't share. Because decisions simply haven't been made. I know that I know that, but when you haven't, when you have made a decision, you can't, you know, I don't want you to speculate. I'm one of, I'm one of the residents in town. And sometimes with my city council, I just wondered, why don't we just take on the NSF. Let's go to the PUC and challenge them there. And then as I learned who has authority and what the implications are, it's not quite as simple as simply taking a hammer to be an SF. Either of you want to reflect on the, the stakes in terms of our relationship with BNS, their authority. I mean, they, they can operate with impunity coming through long month. And then sometimes only as a courtesy that they notify us that they're doing something. Is that fair or accurate? I think that's very accurate. They're, they're, they're, they're their main goal is they're a business. So their goal is to, to move freight as much as they can. And they've got, you know, 100 plus years of history of running trains. And in that time, I think as a public or as a business, they've, they've learned how to, how to do things very well. They've got really good lawyers and really good. So they've got, you know, a lot of the rules that are written by like through FRA are to that, the, the, the, the, that company's advantage. And, you know, when, when I think when the train rule, the horn rule first came out, there are a number of communities who, who tried to, to, to fight in or still fighting and have not been successful. You know, there are, there are, are, are states who sued the NSF trying to get improvements or not, maybe not be NSF, but other train companies and have lost in trying to, to have them do improvements or not have trained. One of the other challenges we were focusing on train noise, but last year we had BNSF decided, let's run longer trains. So they're running these trains through town, mile long trains that are running from third, the ninth up to mountain view. And then they, they stop and block half a dozen intersections. So, you know, there are, are challenges with that. And the city has, has, has while we try and we put file complaints, file complaints with FRA, we don't see a lot of, of, of, of action on either part to, to help us out. Yeah. Without being too critical of BNSF, it feels at times like municipalities are simply an inconvenience at this point to, to their operations. And that doesn't, it doesn't feel very affirming. So they have good lawyers, they have a lot of money. And they have precedents, right? The railroads. So, yes. So then the, so municipalities are left with what hands or cards do you have to play to, to bring a solution to the residents. Part of the tradeoff here, you mentioned the Boston Avenue crossing part of the tradeoff, both for cost and for, based on their regulations or policy required closing a couple of streets. And that, that's where there is some disappointment or some unhappiness in the part of some long, long residents that we're going to see at least one intersection or one street, maybe more blocked in order to accomplish the objectives here. And that's regretful, but it's, it is what it is. So if we're going to move forward with the creating quiet zones, is that a fair statement? Yes. And we've looked at the, you know, studied that the kind of the proposed crossings to, to try to. To identify which crossing would have the least impact from a pedestrian movement of pedestrians, moving to bikes, moving to vehicles, as well as, as would it, you know, in that area of, of fourth, fifth, sixth. Would, would, you know, would it impact the school that's, that's along there? We would, we would, that's one of the factors we also looked at to try to, to understand, you know, should we go ahead with a full blown cross closure? You know, how would that impact that those, those, the movement of, of, of all types of traffic? You know, and as well as the bigger, you know, biggest one also, one, another big one is emergency services is, you know, they're the, the kind of, I'm going to say the, the advantage in that area is the, the, it's the shorter block distance. You can get around there. It's a more of a, it's a, it's a bit of an inconvenience, but not as bad as if we were to close the street that has a half a mile distance to the next. I can clarify, it's not. The closure of Fifth Avenue isn't necessary for quiet zones. We could put another quiet zone compliant crossing in there. The closure of Fifth Avenue is required for the continuation of Boston Avenue and we're coordinating it with a quiet zone project. Yes. It's been very controversial in my neighborhood and we're more impacted than anybody by the trains because eighth avenue was closed in order to put 21st Avenue crossing in. And yes, the FRA holds all the cards. You know, there's the regional government, there's the state government, there's the federal government, there's God, and then there's the train, as they say. But it's so it's very frustrating for my neighbors to see Fifth Avenue being closed, but it's not necessary for the quiet zone. It's necessary for the Boston Avenue extension. That is good. Yes. So talk a little bit about. We've had it just as you're staging this project. There's been staging in the budgeting process, right? Decisions had to be made high. We're going to pay for this as a city. Are you going to ask people to, are you going to finance it with debt financing? You're going to do it cash and carry. Where, how, why are we now. In 2021, budgeted to move forward with this project. What happened? Decisions that were made and. And successes in terms of pursuit of other resources. Just talk a bit about why we're now positioned to proceed with this project. So we were, you know, Year, year and a half ago, we were directed by council to, to, to begin forward with, with the quiet zone project. So we, we looked at how we could budget. And what we're talking about is we're talking about, you know, with, with 17 crossings. An eight million dollar. Plus project. And then the numbers came in all, you know, in, in different forms. That doesn't include the design. So we. We looked at, at basically the, the, the. There were a number of options. Could we debt finance at that point? We, we, we were not able to, as the tax, the, the main funding for our streets group. Our streets fund is out of our sales and use tax. And that was a, was not a permanent tax at that point. There was an effort later that we did get it approved for that. Now we do have that as an option, but we've been able to spread the project out over a number of years. Okay. So we looked at, there's, there's a million dollars, I believe. And I can tell you, I have to look away from the screen to check my budget. There is in the 2020 budget, which we, we planned in 2019, we put in $1 million. We carried over some dollars that were there already. So it's about $1.2 million there. In 2021. We have $2.1 million. And then in 22, 2022. We budgeted four million. And then one million in 2023. So. Back in the beginning of 2020. There was an opportunity and throughout this whole thing, we were looking for other, other means of funding to help leverage the city dollars. We were going, knew we would have to program into a budget. So we were able to, we were able to, we were able to, we were able to, we applied for a, what's called a Chrissy grant. Many years before and that we were unsuccessful with that. And so, but we continued that effort. And then I would like to thank Tyler. He was the one who took the lead on it. And so in February of last year, we got noticed that our grant was an application was approved. So we were able to, as part of last year's budgeting and those numbers, I just rattled off. Able to budget over a course of time. The full component of the project because we received a, or in the process of, of, of getting a $4 million grant from the FRA. So basically we're matching. Well, we, we got, yeah, it is, it actually is a reimbursable grant. So we have to put out it basically $8 million to get reimbursed. $4 million. But that can go through the course of four years. We'll start be able to work some of those and then seek reimbursement. But we show the $8 million in, in, in our expenditures in the budget, there's also a $4 million revenue shown in there now. The, and kind of we had, we had originally proposed to be started in December of last year and early this year in construction. The challenge of why the project's now delayed is, is we, we got noticed that we got the grant, but we have to go through and do a grant agreement with FRA, which is what is taking a bit of time right now. So it's, it is a Tyler inside the organization known as the $4 million man now. I think you're going to be a point person, right on. At least I know Jim defers to you. In terms of laying out schedule and what, what people can expect or anticipate. Talk about once this gets moving, once you get the agreement set with, with FRA. What can local, what can long monitors expect? There'll be, there'll be disruptions. I'm guessing to some intersections because there's a lot of infrastructure work that has to be done. Talk about the schedule and what we should anticipate. Sure. So for 2021. We've got five. Crossings on the docket that we're looking to make improvements. One of them. Emery street is, as Rick mentioned earlier is not. Included specifically in this project. It's being funded through partially private funding. From that development adjacent. The other crossings we're looking at doing. Third avenue long speak. Ninth and 17th avenues are the ones we're looking at. Trying to get done in 2021. In terms of what will residents see for the work. We've got some carbon gutter work to do. There will be potentially some storm sewer adjustments. Overall scale of the actual project is not. It's not like a major road reconstruction or a big rebuild. So the actual scope of the work is. Relatively minor. The big, the big. Work is railroad work. Then the NSF installing their infrastructure for their equipment. Is going to be a bulk of it. There will be some. Anticipate some lane closures. Potentially some. There'll be potentially some storm sewer adjustments. Overall scale of the actual project is not a major. It's not like a major road reconstruction or a big rebuild. There will be some rain closures and that potentially some road closures to facilitate some of the work. I don't think that'll be a long. Particularly long duration. So what. Is it more than just putting arms that. Come down with lights to blink. There's. Yes. More than that. Sure. The big thing and one of the big cost items in this is the constant warning times circuitry that I think Jim mentioned earlier. So that's one of the big cost items. The gates and arms and flashers are. Not necessarily large cost items, but. That helps provide that feedback for. Hey trains here, you need to stop. There's some other when you mention curb work. And there's meat. Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? Are there meetings? There's some other when you mentioned curb work and other. Are there. Medians that will be installed in some of those intersections. Some, depending on the intersection. It's some, some of the treatments could be gates only some will be a combination of medians and gates. I think 9th avenue. We're looking at extending median from the track and then adding and then going with the all quad gates. And the reason is to limit options for automobiles or other vehicles to try to game that intersection, right? To find their way, navigate their way around the arms. Absolutely, the thought process is if you only have the approach gates without any medians that drivers could absolutely do that. They could navigate through there and try to beat the train per se. The median, generally, what we're looking for is a hundred foot length of that median from the track to the end of the median. And that seems to be effective at preventing people from making that decision. So, Tyler, do you say four intersections in 2021? And then this will extend through into 2023, right? To finish the- The 2024 is what we're showing is our out here. So we've got three crossings in 2022. Four more in 2023, and then four more to finish it off in 2024. And when it's all finished, should long moners anticipate that they never again hear a train noise? Train or train horn? So trains are noisy even without the horn. So I will say that the train will absolutely still make noise. For the most part, the only time that we would be hearing a horn would be if there's an imminent threat. So a train operator will still sound the whistle if there's, say, a trespasser on the tracks or they see some safety scenario where they need to blow the whistle. All right. Fellows, I appreciate your willingness to spend time telling this story. What have we not shared that we should? Any last comments that any of you would like to share or that you think residents should hear before we wrap this up? I think from my perspective, I think that we will work and continue to work on schedule as we've laid out as best we can. We talked a lot about the railroad and their regulation at the federal level. I think that ultimately there is some scheduling that we do not control that falls in the hands of BNSF. So we will do our best to follow the schedule that we've laid out. There could potentially be some variability that we don't control with BNSF scheduling. Anybody else? And then as we move forward and we get closer and closer, there will be more public engagement and let people know what the status of the project is, where we're gonna be working. Certainly notices to the surrounding residents of any disruptions. You'll see, as we get closer and closer and it's imminent, there'll be more than likely some type of variable message boards posted on some of the major roadways like Third Avenue where we're working to notify the vehicular traffic. But we will certainly have a more aggressive public engagement as we get closer and have definitive start dates and time frames. Very well. Any last words, Rick? I actually have a question, I guess, for either Jim or Tyler. As we're doing this in stages, are we gonna sequentially get the quiet zones in town or do we have to wait until the whole thing is built out to quiet the trains? Because this shouldn't have happened, this should have happened to me 15 years ago, it can happen fast enough. I think it's great that the city's been responsive. I'm still amazed that after sitting in my dining room with a bunch of folks that I could go and rank the right folks, but in the city of 100,000 people, we can make things change and I'm heartened by how the government has worked. And I'm curious about will the quiet zones be coming in starting next year and expanding over time or will we have to wait the full three years? So, Rick, I do anticipate that as we create zones that can be classified as quiet zones that we would be applying for those quiet zones. I think Jim mentioned earlier that kind of in the old town there's several crossings that need to be improved before it can be implemented. So that can't be applied for until all of those crossings are complete. There are some per se 17th, 21st that are isolated crossings that could potentially be created as standalone that can qualify to be quiet zones themselves and don't depend on any other adjacent intersections being improved, but also as we mentioned that direction from council was to work in the old town first. So if you'll notice in the first two years it's really focused on working on those old town crossings. Great. We ready to put a wrap on this? Certainly. Rick, I wanna thank you for your leadership on this, your activism in the community and all that you do what you did with your professional life and what you do as an active member of this community. Jim and Tyler, you are two of the unsung heroes in town and in the city of Longmont. So thank you for what you guys do every day. I know Tyler gets a lot of input on everything from speed to street repair to traffic flow and handles it with grace and with integrity every time. So thanks to you, Longmoners. That is your backstory on train noise and quiet zones in Longmont. Thanks for listening.