 Greetings. We'll give folks a few more minutes to be able to come on in. Dimms, you made it! That was also a mic check. Like, here's your opportunity for a mic check. I'm sure that Zoom is just fine. Hi. Can you hear me? No. Yes, that's perfect. I'm holding for a few more folks, but... Yeah, hang for like a hot minute and then we'll get started. And Max, I see you're on the line. I'm hoping that this is like... Yeah, come on in. No problem. No, perfect. This is also an opportunity to be able to do a mic check for you as you're our first one on the agenda today, so... All right. Yeah, normally it should work. I mean, you also need to run the release team meeting, so hopefully... It's one-time thing. It's fine. No worries. No worries. All right. Perfect. Just wanted to make sure like everything was working around in there as well. And sounds like it is, so perfect. Okay. I believe that's probably who we're going to get today. So I'll go ahead and kick us off. And here's our normal antitrust policy notice. It's good to see all of you. And it's good to see all of you as well. Welcome to our new chair, Dimms. And at this point, I will hand off to Dimms. Hi. What am I supposed to do here? You are doing just fine. Like walk us through the agenda, walk us through like where we're going in here. You know, just be the meeting host. And I'm here for backup. I'm here to be able to support you now. Thank you. So we wanted to talk, open the agenda today, talking about the new proposal that came our way, both in as a PR as well as PR on an issue, I forget, but also as an email and there was some chat on Slack too. So Max, would you like to open up the discussion here? Sure. Absolutely would love to. So thanks, first of all, for having me. So I had a discussion with a couple of friends and colleagues all around the cloud native environment about actually quite interesting fields. This is a working title, Tech Sustainability. We got already a lot of very positive feedback on it, but also about the title. So maybe you can call it better, Tech Environmental Sustainability, for example. Nevertheless, what it is about, as you may know, there are some small, minor climate changes around the globe, heating up a little bit here and there. And we have a lot of little pieces which basically have an effect on this. This is like when we travel with airplanes or drive too much cars, but also the IT industry has a very good impact on it. Overall, the ICT industry itself is comparable with a couple of countries together. Depending on the numbers, and we need to say here, they are not very 100% clear because it's always just estimations. But the global ICT is comparable from the energy consumption as well as CO2 emissions like with Italy, for example, which is a good amount of size. On the same time, research has shown that it's to be expected that the next five years, this will double and then the next 10 years, maybe even raise by more 10% due to all the development and happenings. And there's a lot of activities around this topic. You have the Green Software Foundation, which is specifically taking a look about how to maybe optimize software, what are good patterns to optimize the software. You have tons of other sustainability activities, but somehow there's always missing a little bit of this gap to bring it really actively to the community. For sure not, because in the first step when you start an open source project or you're working deep in an open source project, it's maybe the last thing you think about that you could have an impact on the environment. But this is exactly the point where we thought like, wait a minute, we have an awesome create community with hundreds of tools which are used globally worldwide. So if one of these tools just changed a little bit of something in it and get a little bit more efficient, it has directly a very big impact on the whole community. And I mean, very big is maybe a little bit over traumatized, but we're talking here maybe about a good amount of tons of CO2 which are reduced just from light. I don't know, let's say MacCubanita is a little bit more efficient than how it deals with resources. And this is all about this tech sustainability. It should build a bridge from all this different teams which are out there and communities out there and try to bring their best practice, their ideas to our cloud native community to help the teams to shape an idea about it, to help to identify a good approach also for each of the projects to find their own way to optimize either it's a software or how they are deployed and also in the overall contribution to the project can be also a good approach to support here. Again, let's think about Kubernetes. We have every night, every day running hundreds of tests continuously. If you can optimize here something, this will also have a positive impact. And also what we also should forget is for sure also the end user community, but we have a good approach or we can have a good chance over the community to also reach out to the end users. And some of our end users already got for example also targets to reduce their emissions. So it goes hand in hand. And I think all those changes need some way place where we can bring it together, where we can bundle it because also I said the whole how to say communities, sustainable community is in a constant in a constant research in a constant change of minds and making up things. And this is where the tech would come in, try to bundle all of these incomes sort a little bit out what is relevant for us in the first move, what is maybe relevant in the second move and shape out of it potential actions, which we then can give into all of our open source projects and set up maybe a kind of, I do not want to call it maybe standard, but a set of good practices which can be adopted also from other projects out there from end users for example and so on and so forth. So we don't want to reinvent the wheel, but we are more like a funnel bringing the good things to the communities, help the communities to utilize it and make the best out of it. Thanks, Max. So this is a really good effort that we should be definitely thinking about for sure. So one, when I saw this one, I was look, I went looking for like what has anybody else done before for example, right? In the space like the one thing that came to mind quickly was like as people started measuring how much how much energy electricity is used in creating and maintaining the blockchains for example, right? So, you know, and saying that, hey, GPU based mining and things like that are essentially taking up valuable resources and then causing harm too. So that was the closest that I could get to. Are you aware of any other examples where people have measured something and, you know? Well, I mean, we're talking always about cloud native and somehow directly stuck with our head and the clouds but reality is that most of the workload is still running on premise, right? And to measure on premise, the emissions electricity consumption for example, is actually quite simple thing because if you build the data center, you should have done energy supply and you have energy contracts per the supply. So to bring here and some measurements could be an easy point of view. Another very active community which measures actually the resource consumptions overall would be the FinOps community, right? However, I mean FinOps or the optimization for costs and therefore also the optimization of resource consumption is very close together but it has two totally different, it comes from two totally different areas, right? However, we can utilize also a lot of approaches and thoughts and models behind the FinOps and easily spoken just to replace the coins, the dollar coins with metric tons of CO2 for example, right? And you see also this move and the major cloud providers like AWS and Google Cloud currently publishing and open up the APIs for gathering all this emission data out of your workload. Azure has it since years as a kind of PI dashboard available, right? So there's already a good foundation also towards this direction where we can start working this. There are also some great open source tools on the market which have done already all this crowned and foundation research which can be utilized. So the foundation is all given but as I said, there's a lot of activities going around and this is what we can bring very well together. Okay, sounds good. Richie, do you want to voice your thought, please? Sure, I was just saying that on the measurement side I agree that it's relatively easy to take proper measurements on data center efficiency and such and this is like in particular cooling the largest thing which you can do about data center's efficiency but it's often highly complex to get this out of the actual providers unless you force them through an open book energy contract or something. Maybe also speaking with a project head on within Prometheus team, we have debated this quite extensively how we can reduce our CI CD impact and everything because we are building all the time for all the platforms blah, blah, blah, blah and we have to to provide good software for our users but having specific actions maybe even things which we can just apply to our CI CD which chooses good tradeoffs Prometheus team would love to do this and just like implement it and do our part in reducing this once there is results from this tech which in summary, I really like this initiative. Yeah, Josh had a question on in a practical terms what do we do next kind of thing, Josh? Oh, no, I was just saying from the from the introduction, it sounded like there might be already a couple of projects or prospective projects for the stag. Yeah, so again, the question is like for us, what does it mean does is it a tag or is it a working group and is it going to own like or control or cover certain specific projects and what would they be? Because, you know, for us tag has a specific connotation here, right, as an organizing principle. Well, I believe from the perspective of like is it an attack or is it a working group? I think a working group always has a very specific target something which is discussing about goals smart. You can measure it. You can can see it. You can touch it. I think with attack, this is more like a strategic long term thing which needs to get on its way which can change its shape. Maybe we understand on on half the way. Okay. All the things we have thought about is not the thing. Maybe it's a totally different, different direction which we need to change. And also here I said from also from the explanation I give I think we have already a good amount of different work groups which we can think about under it. Like also like Richie says like, okay, we have a big CICD part in it and just to optimize this whole CICD and define maybe a new standard or a new best practice how to optimize CICDs. This is a whole big work group of itself. And this means also that maybe this work group has to reach out for a CD foundation and talk with all our friends and colleagues who are building CICD tools and GitOps tools and so on and so forth. Maybe even to collaborate like this attack application delivery because they are already in the field and experts of this and maybe we can just bring in a new taste to this direction, right? But from this explanation, as you see, this is just one field where we can think of. It's getting already quite, quite big and complex. That's why I believe to define over all the environments with sustainability and as a work group would be most likely very, very large. So let me call on other TOC members. If they have any question, Justin, Emily. So I'm curious what you would find as like the initial scope of the tag versus working group, I think of as key deliverables. What are you thinking about from you've already identified a few potential working groups if this were to become a tag? How are you planning on scoping that? And I've read through the proposal and it's fairly comprehensive, but I want to ensure like the tags that we have have charters and that's kind of like guiding principles around them. And I'm curious where you see this fitting in as well as what those capabilities are you looking to provide like not necessarily a cloud native eight for security faults, but something along the lines of cloud native environmental responsibilities and those design principles that you're expecting projects and organizations because I can see it coming from both perspectives to take on. Yeah, yeah, you also highlighted a couple of very interesting parts of it. So I think one of the first major step is really to shape a relevant group of people around this. I got a lot of positive feedbacks per email also on the proposal I've sent around of at least a handful of people as like, hey, this is exactly what we are looking for or we are working on this already in this direction, how we can support you. So I think a good foundation to this direction is already given. We have also written on our proposal some first good ideas in which direction we can go. Speaking of CICD is the one thing and raising the awareness of this topic is another very good direction. We have our surveys by CNCF really going out and why not to extend it by two, three, four questions and giving the first good touch in this direction because the data in this direction of environmental sustainability is very poor on the one hand side and it's very complex together. So this could be also very good kickstart into this direction and define and make it transparent what is actually going on that there's a lot of companies moving into this direction and having thoughts around it, but maybe getting lost in it the same like what we have seen why we come to the idea to propose it. Just streamline this effectively. Okay, one more chance to the TUC members and then I'll call on other people. Justin, do you have a question? Yeah, I mean, I think that working out what is going to be, what is going to deliver is really important. I think that we've got this idea that CNCF is a project-focused foundation, but we actually do a lot of non-project work. I think, you know, tax security is a good example of it does a lot of work, you know, educating and helping users understand security landscapes and I think this kind of falls into perhaps largely into that kind of work. Or I mean, I think that would be some potentially some useful projects as well, but I think it would be good to, you know, write a kind of sort of plan of what a road map of deliverables might look like so we can kind of make it more concrete. I think that I think a lot of people are very unsure what to do and it kind of in that way it's it was a little bit like the security space where people know there's problems, but they don't know how to solve them and they don't know how other people are solving them and they don't have a place to go and communicate these difficulties and so that sounds that sounds really helpful. I think from my point of view. Sounds good. Bob, did you want to summarize something? Oh yeah, so just from my thoughts in chat was from the outputs of this it looks more like white papers and best practices, which has historically aligned more with working groups and there there are working groups out there that have spawned projects that then enter sandbox. I do think like it as far as defining a road map possibly looking at other projects you know might push it more like at least my personal opinion towards a tag but like right now with everything I would I would definitely lean towards like working group. Louise, did you want to say some? Yeah, I think it's pretty much aligned with what Emily said. I think it's an important and valuable initiative something that's very new to a lot of artists that I think that's why scoping and initial deliverables will be crucially important because like a really a wide field and giving people something that is usually usable and applicable but then early on will be crucial there. So it's more about scoping and being like very specific about deliverables early on. Yeah, and the point Emily is making also is like we can start as a working group and then we can move to an intro tag if it like outlifts some stuff or it adopts some projects under its wings so to say. So yeah, but you know definitely love the idea and we should do something and we should do something quick because you know as a as a humanity we are running out of time at this point right? So any other last Ricardo did you want to say something? Yeah, I think having a working group sounds like a good idea. It's just having some sort of deliverable maybe creating a landscape around sustainability around projects and things that are related to the other tax. I do think it's kind of like the scope is really wide. There's so many things around sustainability and maybe having some sort of deliverable will help us and will help the community understand more of the scope right and narrow it down to something a little more that aligns with all the other other tax. Concrete also will help some of us to pitch in right otherwise we don't know what we'll do there right? Yeah, yeah. And I do think the only other tag that is kind of like around processes tag contributor strategy, but like all the other tags are around projects right? So if if something kind of aligns more on the projects, it's what the community has done in the CNCF. Yeah, per discussion in the mailing list I as co-chair of contributor strategy I don't think this is really appropriate for contributor strategy because it's not really about the people specifically. It's more honestly about the code and what it's doing and so it doesn't doesn't seem appropriate to put it under us. Yeah, got it, Josh. Thank you. Yeah. So Emily, you have the last word and then we'll you know we can take it back to mailing list and the issues. Yep. I think it needs to get back to the mailing list. I think a rename is going to be important so that we don't have any collisions with other technical terms. I suggested conservation working group for the time being. I think this might be beneficial for potentially runtime or one of the other more operational tags that's focused on things that are already out in production already working something to that effect but I can also see potentially some partnership with security tag as well to ensure the conservation recommendations are not in violation of any security or policy oriented controls. So it looks like the first thing to do is like pick a name. How is a way to pick a name, Don? I mean, it's always a problem. Yeah, so Max, so the plan looks okay to you and go back to the mailing list and then we can pick a name and we can debate a little bit on the working outputs and go from there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Can we go to the next slide please, Amy? Okay, tag app delivery. Who do we have here today? Yeah, hello. Very brief update from tech app delivery this time on project reviews. We have still captain, which is still in review and yeah, Amy, as I were of the hiccups, we had in the review process here, but this seems to be moving forward right now. Otherwise, no projects are in review, but what we still see very positive with it also sandbox projects also done like forced to reach out to the tags are still actively reaching out to present to the tag and tag members, which I think is very good update on the cooperative delivery working group there. Beyond the regular work, we started to look into a most like it's going to be a white paper on multi-tenant app delivery. So this came up in a lot of conversations we had. So how do you best chip multi-tenant applications on Kubernetes? There's a lot of knowledge out there. There are different people doing it in different ways. Also discussions obviously around hard multi-tenancy, soft multi-tenancy more and more options that we have like starting from namespaces, separate clusters, entirely running clusters inside of clusters and so forth and requirements people are having, but for the topic, we saw one more coming up here and the goal with your draft is towards a white paper, most likely recommendation or just listing the options that are available there. I think eventually we'll turn out these are the options that you have to solve certain problems sort of and okay, this is a good practice to solve it or like this is the way you should be doing it. Chaos engineering working group. Yeah, there's a culture voting going on there. Bit more updates on content on the white paper in the next update from our side. The last one I pretty much took over from the last one to the blog post is still in the working and we need to see how we can get it both of what app deliver is actually doing because the plus the feedback we already got from that from the last QCon is like, oh, you really exist. Yes, we do. And there's actually material out there and sometimes but we also see people are starting the reference material, especially like the operator white paper and so forth. Yeah, after delivery, we wanted to do it and after delivery day at cube con in Valencia, we started rather late and probably were a bit too optimistic to get this done in time. Nevertheless, we're now heading for doing it for Detroit for North America. And yeah, I just updated the slide briefly before as one item missing for some very strange reasons how the Internet and most likely outlook works. None of us got the update on submitting our session for the maintainers tracks with this and there won't be a session on for cube con Valencia, which is totally our fault. But still, I was wondering why I'm not getting any emails anymore from Amy and from the CNCF and others as well and we figured it out right now. So let me take this one offline. Yes, I'll go sort of that. Yeah. So thanks a lot. The first one is captain. Sorry, you know, we kind of like dropped the ball as a TLC and we need to get it back on track for sure. So let's see what we can do here. We already have one other TLC member, Harry, picking up some of the work. So hopefully it'll be better this time. So the other one I had the input was the multi tenant. There is a workgroup for multi-tenancy in Kubernetes. The working group is on cooperative delivery as a whole, which like covers infrastructure and collaboration and constantly shipping it. But one of the big topics that obviously came up is shipping multi-tenant applications or south style applications that the team is looking into collecting best practices and so forth. Yeah. Yeah. At this point, I think they are working on like hoping to make Kubernetes multi tenants rather than the apps. So but maybe, you know, just getting, I mean, starting to talk to them might be helpful in some shape or form because they might be other people interested in the ability side of things there. Yeah. So once we have something to share, which other than they have, obviously we always encourage input from a wider audience. I think that's also what the TLC meetings are good for. Sounds good. Any other questions from TLC members or community for the tag Abdelody? Once going twice. Let's go to the next one in me to Josh there. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Okay. Just a quick rundown of diverse activities. What is we're continuing our awareness campaign of the tag in order to make primarily CNC projects aware of the resources that are available to them. The including some activity around KubeCon EU. The we've had approved and merged. I'll read me template. So getting much closer to sort of having a complete set of templates for project paperwork. Documentate full documentation for those templates is trailing that a bit. But we're working on it. The we're waiting for our TLC our new TLC liaisons. I you know, Hello, Matt and Emily. I to have a chance to look at the new reviewing template, which is an example of how to construct a document that says how things will be reviewed, which is something a lot of projects need. The and Paris, one of our ex-chairs is working on a proposal about a potential requirement for community management for graduated projects. The and you'll probably see that next month. The as well as look for soon announcements about the next couple of maintainer circle. Items the with a professional coach. That we're going to set up for again for the maintainers and please let maintainers that you work with on projects know about it when you see that because to help maintainers. I know I promised that we were going to have a proposal by this meeting for a mentorship working group under tag CS. As many of you may know, the CNCF staff head of mentorship is currently busy with other things. So that's a little bit delayed. And we met with a bunch of folks at the March 10th tag meeting who are working on a proposal for a diversity and inclusiveness working group that will be under tag CS for efforts in that direction. So look for that on the TSE mailing list pretty soon. And as always a reminder when you're doing due diligence or providing feedback or sponsorship to projects and you see that they need help in specific areas. Please feel free to refer them to us. They can show up at meetings. Oh, I just realized I didn't put this on the slide. Here's an important thing in for simplicity and to make it easier for projects to find us if they want to find us through a meeting. We've simplified our meeting schedule. Our meetings are now entirely Thursdays at 10 a.m. Pacific. Alternating between the various working groups each week. But if a project needs any sort of contributor strategy type help they can dial in Thursdays 10 a.m. Pacific and of course on Slack and on the mailing list and everything else. Same Zoom link, right Josh? Yes. Yes, same Zoom link for all of those. You know, it alternates between governance contributor growth general tag probably will be diversity inclusiveness in the loop as well in the future. Sounds good. Thank you. Any questions for Josh? From anyone? Josh, how many working groups does the tag actually have? Right now it has two and so the proposal is two more. The so and these are just specific efforts that again, you know, sort of our mission as a tag is the people behind the projects. So when somebody comes with a proposal around again around the people behind the projects. So like the CNCF staff wanted someplace for mentorship efforts that are CNCF wide to live and and then we had another group who was very interested in starting more organized D.I. activity under the CNCF umbrella tag CS like the appropriate place for it. And we form working groups for these for the same reason anybody else does right because there is somebody who wants to do it and we want to give them the chance to do it their way without necessarily needing to make it committee meeting. Sound good Josh. Thank you. One last time. Anybody else? Any other questions? Once, twice, twice. Amy next slide please. Tag network. Hey Lee. All right. Hey. Well, of tag networks. Last couple of discussions. I'll draw your attention to the lower right hand corner in terms of projects. Fab edge is probably I think the most recently adopted sandbox level project from tag network. There have been activity from the maintainers of Iraqi mesh and database mesh in terms of their consideration toward proposing for sandbox. I think Iraqi mesh did they just haven't presented in the tag just yet. That's not a requirement but but they had asked to and so just random just a question for me. Do you all recall if that if Iraqi mesh has been reviewed yet or if if it's proposed. Okay. They might have just written up the proposal but not actually submitted in. Okay. And so very good. So that's large or that's a kind of focus of tag network. I'll mention I'll kind of go in reverse order and draw your eyes to the upper right hand corner. There's different you know, Google summer of code is coming up. There's a list of a number of projects that are participating. Those from tag network. There are three listed here. I'm chaos chaos mesh and so on. Tag network has a couple of working groups. The most active one is the service mesh performance. I'm sorry the service mesh service mesh working group. Service mesh performance is one of the projects represented within there. Looking toward cube con and service mesh con. There's two activities coming out of service mesh working group that well, I guess I'll say should finally be published. There's there are contributors working on an early version of of a performance dashboard that looks at some different test scenarios different performance test results. We've kind of talked about this a lot on this and on these calls. The tests are now being run inside of the CNCF labs. There's automation that's been completed since last we gave an update that runs those tests. There's a solicitation for anyone interested in a review of the different test scenarios or suggestions to change those or opinions and ardent opinions are most welcome. They're one of the participating groups and a couple of the maintainers of from from Intel on service mesh performance. Have been helping steward mesh mark as an as a performance index as a measure of well of cloud native performance. Maybe it's currently kind of network centric and its you know measurements but and so there's a presentation forthcoming. It sounds good. Just curious is is still covered in any of this you know dashboards are testing. Okay, it is. Okay, thank you. And the service service mesh con is D zero. Are you getting good participation numbers so far? We are yeah. The I don't I boy I this is going to feel awkward and I hope that everyone takes this in the best way but like it is it is super surprising to me just the level of interest that folks have in the service mesh performance as a as I tend to think that mathematical numbers are somewhat boring but but everyone else doesn't and so the open the project office hours for service mesh performance are like much to my surprise that you're very well attended. The service mesh con itself I'm not on the program committee. But there's a lot of there's there's there's a lot of submissions. There's a lot of there's been something of a question about equal representation. I think at that particular equal representation of sort of speakers and the vendors that they align to but but a super active conference or sounds day. Thank you. Any questions from anyone for back network once going twice. Thank you. Right. Amy I observe repeat. Hi everybody or Richie one of you. Hello. Hi. So I'll just give a quick update here of some current activities and what we've had going on. Last month that our last meeting we had the Hubble project come the Cilliam Cilliam's Hubble project come and give an overview to the tag just about what it is what the scope of it is et cetera. Pixie the pixie project also came and gave an update on some of the things that they've done in that project since the last time they visited nearly a year ago. So those are both well received and Henrik Rexed who runs a podcast called it's observable has been working with Michael Hosenbloss and some others to launch a new open source news. It's a short format video series. We're going to talk about today as well. Today in the meeting which immediately follows the TOC meeting twice a month. We're having Lee from Mechery present to the community serve inspections as everyone knows as people will increasingly know are a huge source of signals for observability to understand what's going on with our systems and how they behave and how they operate. So he's going to give an overview of the project and we're going to talk about sort of some of the observability aspects of it and how it can contribute to the cannon. There's a spelling mistake there. I'm sorry. Henrik Henrik is going to give a short update too. He's now launched and published the first of this sort of short format. What's going on in open source. I think it's going to be bi-weekly initially, but it might move to weekly. So we're going to talk about that. We'll have an update on a working group that we launched just about a month ago. We've been talking about it for a few months called Observe-K8s. For those that aren't familiar where we took a page from tag app deploys playbook with the GetOps Working Group which subsequently launched Open GetOps. Here we want to do something similar. We formed a working group to launch something that has its own life beyond the working group called Observe-K8s. And the basic idea is to be allerative allerative. Well, it's in the slide, but it's a it's a collection of case studies that are clonable on how to use observability tooling that's within the CNCF umbrella combined with representative workloads. We have been doing some some socialization of the idea and reaching out to various actors in the in the community. And we're approaching critical mass here where we have a number of people that want to contribute both good working examples of microservices and other cloud native deployments combined with ways to observe them. And there's there's different ways to observe different workloads for the same workloads. And this is meant to be a starting point that's accessible. That's community driven that people can use to get started or to learn, you know, something specific. So that's gaining steam. And we were now on the CNCF calendar. We've just sent out doodles and things like that. So we're having regular meetings starting up. And so we're excited by that. I wanted to just briefly say there's a brand new book that came out by Richard Sites. He's been a luminaire in our field. His PhD advisor was Donald Knuth. That book just came out and basically it covers a technique that we used to use almost 20 years ago with Windows CE where unlike a regular sampling profile, which goes tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, you know, and records where you were on every thread context, which or when a thread wakes up. It knows why it woke up. The scheduler knows why I wake up why it woke up. And so that data set is captured. So you end up with a profile that shows the relationships between when threads woke up and what they were waiting on. Why did they wake up? So this provides a more nuanced view of the interactions of systems and as, you know, increasingly we see cloud native systems expanding to mobile devices, Edge networks or Edge, you know, Edge scenarios with heterogeneous networking, the rise of all sorts of different hardware combined with real movements on the storage space as well. You know, in many cases, storage is no longer the bottleneck at once was so many systems that were built atop storage with the assumption that storage is slow. Such as LSM trees and that are used to implement key value stores. You know, all of these are being turned upside down. So there's a real need to understand in more than just simple terms how these systems are behaving, how we can measure them and how they are misbehaving. So we'll have more on this in incoming meetings, I think, I hope. But I reached out to doctor sites and we have started a dialogue there. I recommend the book about three quarters of the way through it and we'll be talking about that today as well. And then lastly, we're going to talk about our logo today. Our mascot slash logo. Next slide. I wanted to highlight something that doesn't fit neatly in all the categories necessarily, but some time ago, you know, when we launched the tag and started making our initial definitions of work, you know, we wanted to do something very simple, you know, make it make a big list of vendors and projects and who contributes to them. And this this was last summer and last fall in the TLC meeting in one of the TLC meetings in the tail end of September, I think we had a fairly lengthy discussion on the end user community survey where you know, I won't rehash it all but basically there was some ambiguity about you know, what's a project? What's a vendor? What kind of sectors and domains are they in? And there was we had identified a need to have a more nuanced data model and a more nuanced way to look at the landscape. So this kind of motivated us to reach out as a tag and say, well, who else is working in the space and the next and last slide please. So we found that the Business Value Subcommittee or the BVS had been undergoing an effort to make the glossary and they have additional efforts ongoing to help provide more context to the landscape to inform it all. The next slide has the last slide. Oh dear, that's an earlier version. Well, well, the actual deck that folks have a link to has that last slide, but the long and short of it is we reached out to them and they were kind of doing the same thing but for other but starting in a different area than observability. And so we are we've been prototyping a way to do this. That uses a graph data model. So we're using Neo4j. We have some early prototypes. It's a CNCF slash landscape dash graph. It's not yet public. So you have to be a CNCF member. You know, it's very very early days. I just wanted to give people a quick look at it. But it builds a graph data model instead of a big rectangular relational model. You know, so so if you want to answer questions that you don't necessarily know yet, graphs are quite well suited to this. So we hope to provide a data model that can be used to answer questions such as, you know, for a given project who contributes to it and what else do they contribute to or for all of the sandbox projects, you know, for all of the people contributing to all of those projects who employs them and who funds those companies and what else do they fund, right? So these kinds of questions that are very similar to what we see in FinOps or ad tech. And for the last 10 or 15 years in various domains such as biology and chemistry and whatnot, you know, many of these algorithms and such and the actual slides that I placed in a little too soon for this meeting provide some links to what we're up to. You know, those techniques can be applied to the landscape to help us assess things. And some of the technology choices that we're making should yield a nice, rich, strict client that can work on Windows, Mac, Linux, as well as iOS and Android. And then using WebAssembly, we will have a web version of this too. So this is sort of a, again, a graph based data model on the existing landscape there. Sounds great. Thank you. So any questions from Matt? So I had one question as a tag. Can you please check on health of projects, especially the Corpex one, which recently there was some news around it. So as a tag, can you please check on how they are doing? And yeah, thank you. Yeah. And that's a reasonable segue as well, just to, you know, not having the slides. One of the talks I saw at KubeCon last fall was by Don Foster and it was on just that how to assess the health of projects. You know, I think it was something like beyond GitHub Stars and pull requests. You know, the reason that we want to use a graph that I think a graph data model makes a lot of sense here is to help answer and assess questions such as that. Got it. Thank you. So let's do that offline for sure. We have a few more tags to go through. Is that okay? Thank you. Yes, that's all I had. Yeah. Ricardo. Yeah, tag runtime, just a few updates. We'll keep it short on containers and runtimes. We had our presentation on the Calvary containers. It's a different take on confidential computing from the Intel folks, the GSX team. We're going to have a presentation from this project called WASME, which is an interpreter. And in terms of workloads, our next meeting will have a presentation from OpenCruise. This is a project that allows you to orchestrate workloads and deliver applications. So it does have some overlap with tag app delivery. So they'll reach out to tag app deliveries too if they haven't already. On K-native, that was an incubation. That's already been approved. And Qvert is out for voting. So if you haven't voted yet, please go ahead and vote. And in terms of tag runtime activities, our BSI working group is still in progress in the GitHub issue. We'll have an in-person tag runtime session at KubeCon. So we're excited about that. And for KubeCon North America, we're looking at having a co-located event, possibly on MLOps or AI and MLOps. And we do have more interest from more community members to become tech leads. We have Kate Golenring from the Acree project. She has expressed interest in becoming a tech lead. So hopefully we'll have the nomination now pretty soon. And those are all the updates for tag runtime. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Any questions for tag runtime? Next slide, please. Amy, how many do we have left? Security, and then we've got the storage folks all as well. Eight minutes. Let's see if we can make it. I think we can do this. Go ahead. Hi, so from our side, I think the main big update is we have a new co-chair, Andrew Martin. I think he should be on the call. So I'm going to let him introduce himself instead. Okay. Thank you, Brandon. Hello. Yes, I am Andrew Martin, CEO and co-founder of Control Plane. We are a cloud-native security consultancy with order engineering and pentest. I've been involved and very, very enthusiastically so with the tag for the last four or so years. And in that time, authored and co-edited some white papers also in program committee member. And again, very proudly along with some of my team run the CTFs for the last three cloud-native security cons. Really very grateful to be invited into the tag. And as you see, I hope to bring a slightly more metaphorically offensive angle to the tag. We do have an interest in offensive security. I consider myself more of a purple teamer. So very much from a build out the defenses perspective. And also, as you see, the training aspect is especially there to my heart, as well as having spent some time in the UK government. I'm also the chief technical security officer of Open UK. So really one of the things that I hope to help to instigate but also expand within the security tag is helping to sort of intertwine the UK government approaches with some of the US ordinances to help bring a lot of the very excited and enthusiastic UK security open source security community with me into this effort and also to bring some of that offensive security mindset along with the excellent work that already exists with the threat models around a lot of the existing audits and pieces of work. The security tag has done around CNCF landscape projects. As you can see, we've also got so I hate to cut you off. I am so sorry, but we do have two more groups to be able to get through. It's great to be able to see you here. Yes, absolutely. So yes, look forward to being involved. We are very much looking forward to being able to have you here. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to quickly go to the rest of it. Thank you. Again, very excited to have Andy on bot to kind of bring into the operations and and redeeming side public things out of things. We have completed the scale software factory document. We are still seeking feedback and I believe we have a ticket open to kind of purify and beautify the the paper. I think we are still waiting on the response and not sure where the ticket kind of has been lost. So if we can follow on that, that would be good. Another thing that's happening is we've been discussing container breakouts that have been a lot of them recently, which are not any type of kernel and and you know, just operating system bugs, but in container runtimes as well. So the discussion there was around a micro paper for that, but instead we are going to try a new format to kind of help maintain contributor attention to instead have a blog post series. So we're going to try that out. There seems to be a pretty pretty important topic that I think we we see there to be more guidance required. One month. Yeah. One more note on this. We are moving to the third project of our goal of the four projects for the security assessments. Just a quick update on that one. That's it. Thank you. Yeah. I saw a nine dot nine on on their CV. So that was yeah. Tax storage, please. So yes, I will be getting updated here. So the first one is a QFS one way to buy us. We have started the public comment period for this. It's applying to our incubation and then that's project open EBS is also applying to our incubation. So this one we had a meeting in our tech storage to discuss about this project. I ran was also there. So there are a few issues I want to bring up here. So OBS has a storage engine named Maya store. So this one previously had recent concerns regarding trademark because Maya is also part of the name of the company Maya data at that time. But since then my data was acquired by data core and data core dropped to the Maya branding and they are happy to donate the Maya branding to CNCF. So the team open EBS team is going to open a service test ticket for CNCF to adopt the my branding. So that's in progress. And the second one is regarding the ZFS code that was previously used in C store, which is open EBS GitHub repo. But that one was also I think it's resolved because the code was removed was removed from OBS GitHub repo. So we need the CNCF to review that again to make sure that's fine now. And the third issue is OBS has various engines with different level of maturity. So we want to get some guidance from TOC on how to do evaluation. Do we apply the same criteria to all to all the engines or do we select a few and only you know evaluate that way. So that this is the most important thing that we need to get resolved. Yeah. So let's start an email thread with the TOC and then we can do it offline. Sure. Yeah. Thank you. And then the last thing I just want to say that we are working with the cartograph of the cloud native maturity model. Yeah. So that's that's all from outside. Thank you. Sounds good. No, that's great. We made it through everything. Got a quick update on the projects planning to move levels. Also happy to go back and ask for questions for text George. So let's update the captain one other than that. It looks good. Thank you. This is just the ones that are currently in public comment and in voting. So yeah, we are good to go here. Thank you. Thanks everyone. See you next time. Perfect. Thank you all.