 I was the b'layman of Shay'ud-dani'a regime. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Salam alaykum and welcome to tonight's live show on Imam Hussein TV. Last week we aired a broadcast which was quite interesting, very popular as it were, specifically amongst women. The programme last week was titled The Images of Women in Shi'i Tradition. Last week we looked at the focus, well the focus last week was on role models. The narrations that brought forward from women over the centuries and also what credence was given to those narrations, what reliability factors there were and so on and so forth. Tonight's show we will be extending that theme of images of women in Shi'i Tradition. But we'll be looking at women as it were, as career ladies or sisters or home carers. And also in this day and age we've seen a lot of people obviously that have migrated to the west and they have been aspiring as it were to develop their degrees, pursue careers and so on and so forth. So what factors are involved for women in particular? Once again I'd like to welcome Dr. Seid Ahmad Naqshrani. Salam alaykum. Wa alaykum as-salam wa rahmatullah. Thank you for joining us again. Thank you. Insha'Allah you are well and your family is well. Thank you. Tonight's topic hopefully should gather some momentum again and hopefully we should have some more calls. The telephone number for calls to actually come through is 0203 515019. You can also WhatsApp your telephone messages and questions for Seid Ahmad Naqshrani. 07939917163. Once again 07939917163. So now this is a hopefully insha'Allah special topic once again where we'll be looking at really the focus or the traditions as it were around women in particular on being at home or pursuing careers. Now what's quite important just to set the momentum going as it were. I'd like to probably first ask it what are the methodological issues around for women? The debate has always been and it's got to be a fine balance here on should there be at home. That's the one debate on side of the coin. The other side of the coin is should they pursue careers or can there be a mixture. Can it really work as it were what the factors are what the pros and cons are. Let's analyze this together insha'Allah hopefully we can bring in some sort of justice to the masses at large. So just want to sort of probably kick off that. I feel like we're definitely going to need a second and a third and a fourth show with the same title. And you know the reason I say that is because first and foremost we're not going to please everybody with the answers that we give. That's our aim necessarily is to please everybody but there's going to definitely be debates because of what we're about to discuss. Because it may break the worldview or shatter the worldview or be completely different to the worldview which some woman in the Muslim community may have. But when you're talking about methodological issues that are involved in this discussion. It's not an easy discussion to have because there's this mixture of looking at the legal traditions that are involved. Looking at the worldview of one raised in the West versus one raised in the East. Both in terms of the one giving the laws and in terms of the person who has to be living as a Muslim recognizing what Islamic law says. Then you've got the social issues that are involved where you may live in a society where independence is seen as success. So therefore if someone out there for example is independent in the sense that they have their own job. And they have their own means of an income and they are able to travel whenever they want and they are going and being promoted from one level to another continuously. Then that's glorified in some places. In other places getting married and bringing up the children is what's glorified. And then there are others who have found a balance between the two. And then there are others who found that balancing the two was detrimental to their happiness. So we've got legal issues, we've got social norms which we're discussing. We've also got the fact that in the West where many of us are raised we have the issue that there is a great amount of our sisters who have been wonderfully successful in their degrees at the universities that they went to. Yes. And so therefore graduating from that university naturally they would have wanted to work not just to earn an income but also having studied and gained those honors you want to now fulfill your dreams, fulfill your aspirations. Now when that happens we're going to find certain legal issues that are going to arise not just on the question of home versus career but also the question of which career. And therefore is every career healthy to one's religious growth, spiritual growth. Are there certain careers where you may encounter problems following Islam while practicing those careers? Yes. Likewise on the other hand when you're at home and building this family what happens when you feel down that there is a feeling that I haven't achieved what I've wanted to achieve. So now you've got this emotional aspect. So you've got legal, social, emotional all coming together. So all of these are methodological issues which we'll encounter in this discussion. Right. Well said. Inshallah hopefully we can then dissect each of those parts. And I think you're correct in saying that it may take more than one show as it were to break it down. And as it were and all we can do is put it out there as it were. You're right in saying that obviously in the East and West there are differences, cultural differences, perceptions of how women should be perhaps. And you know these are important and they can't be neglected. Let's probably start first of all from just the start of Islam. Maybe Khadija Islam and Alayh Alayh As-Salaam. Also known as Omanin, the blessed and most beloved wife of the Holy Prophet. Peace be upon him and allah Alayh Alayh As-Salaam. Now just to start from there and then we'll continue as it were into the practical matters. So she was clearly a business lady, very wealthy. She supported her husband, the Holy Prophet. She supported the Holy Prophet in the spread of Islam. But just for the viewers as well and also specifically for men, did she continue her business as it were? And I'm saying this because for me there's no reason why a Muslim she lady cannot continue and maintain a balance with agreement with her husband. I mean what is your... Well there is the famous tradition that this religion would have never been successful were it not for the wealth of Khadija and the sword of Ali. Now that gives us an indication that her wealth was instrumental in ensuring that Islam, especially in the early days of the religion of Islam where it was extremely difficult in those early days when the companions are facing the siege of the Meccans where you've got economic sanctions where all of them have to go to the Shiaab of Abu Talib. It's extremely difficult in those days and her wealth is instrumental. But that doesn't necessarily mean that she was working while married. What's clearly there is the fact that she employs the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his family before he announces his prophethood. She actually employed the Holy Prophet. Yes she's employed the Holy Prophet and he's making her a great prophet, excuse the pun and the business is going brilliantly well but alongside that there's a great amount of trust worthiness that she witnesses from him. But there's no evidence whatsoever that when he announces his prophethood that she continues working. And there isn't any evidence as well that he marries her 15 years before he announces his prophethood. There's no evidence that Khadija decides that I'll continue working a 9-5 job for example and then I'll come home to my husband. All of a sudden there's this intention that we're going to build a family. Yes. And what's interesting is that all of a sudden what seems mundane in the world that we live in today being a mother of a child, being a lady who's there in the house ready for her husband when he comes home to be that partner who brings him peace and tranquility that's actually given a divine touch when you look at Khadija and the Prophet and then later when you look at Imam Ali and Fahad Wad Al-Zahra, because the way the housewife is viewed especially now is in many cases quite negative that she's just the housewife as if especially early on the show when you said to me do they stay at home or they get a career? Stay at home sounds like do we lock them at home? Do we force them to be at home? These are a group of individuals who are not very intelligent who we leave at home and that could be further from the truth because what happens with say the Khadija is you've got this extremely successful lady who finds that being there to bring up this house the members of this house being there for her husband she actually finds that this is something which helps her spiritual growth she actually finds it that it's an act of worshiping God so the world that we live in today sadly has in my opinion oppressed many females out there by giving this impression that the female by staying at home is therefore someone who's being oppressed or will definitely be depressed because she's been at home her whole life that mother who has ensured that those sons and daughters have been raised in the best of ways ways in which you will have a stronger nation there's a saying attributed to Napoleon that give me good mothers I'll give you a strong nation that mother who has instilled morals that mother who has sacrificed day and night to ensure that the next generation is a healthy generation that's not something to be frowned upon so with say the Khadija alayhi salam while yes there are many out there will say the reason I'm working where I work is because of say the Khadija yes say the Khadija showed that you can be a lady in the middle of a maybe arrogant male dominated scene who can still earn an income for herself but what's interesting is when she gets married she finds more pleasure in helping to build the household with the person who she sees as the love of her life now that could be the dilemma that could be faced by some people today yeah when there are certain ladies in our community who graduate from university and work in pharmacy, in medicine, in law, in optometry when they do go into those fields some people have the wrong impression that the reason they've gone into those fields is because they don't want to be the traditional housewife mother and so on no sometimes they're not getting married that could be the reason if they got married then they're more than happy to build this divine structure in society known as you know the household yeah sure so sometimes I think we can also be unfair towards those who are working because some people say look at all these modern girls all they're concentrating on is their career and their independence that girl, when she gets married maybe a lady who builds the best house in the world but she just has not had the proposals or what we call the Qisma in some cases coming towards her way so while we see that Seyda Khadija when she got married preferred to be in the house and preferred to be a backbone for her husband you know when he receives revelation he finds that this is the lady who's going to bring him the strength that he needs with this very weighty message that shouldn't mean that we negatively look at our sisters who have decided to have a career because at the end of the day those sisters have graduated with wonderful honors and deserve to be out there but of course there are other issues that may come up while they're out there in their career okay I mean we'll come to probably the Sharia aspects as we were further into the show but in terms of choice now let's start from first of all single women and then we'll go to married women as well if I may single women who wish to pursue careers as it were and as you've said they have been successful in their education they've achieved degrees, doctorates and so on and so forth what sort of obstacles are they facing these days is it due to cultural backgrounds do you think is it due to an influence from an overwhelming manly social structure this is the best place what do you think needs changing well I think that there are certain cultures that are wary of sending their daughters out to the world where there is mixing with those who are of the opposite gender those who are not mahram to them this could either be a cultural belief or it may be a religious belief I remember Ayatollah Al-Khu'i may Allah bless his soul it's quoted in the work Salat al-Najad Ayatollah Al-Khu'i may Allah bless his soul mentions clearly that he does not allow for a woman to go out and work in a mixed environment now this is a shocker to some and especially some of Ayatollah Al-Khu'i's followers probably on this area are going to reassess the position but for Ayatollah Al-Khu'i going out and working in that mixed environment is not allowed Ayatollah Al-Khu'i was also a believer in the face veil that if for example there is a fear that your wife by showing her face even though it's allowed to have the face exposed but there is a fear of some fitna then the wife will have to cover her face he was quite what some would call strict on this area but he would say for example a woman going out to work and all ladies school for example and all girls school there's no issue there or she's working in all girls environment there's no issue there he allows that but for the woman to go out and work in a mixed environment there was that fear that working in such a mixed environment could bring more harm than good there is the interaction then with the opposite gender who's not mahram to you who's making jokes with you all the time while you're working together where you may begin to slowly compromise your social hijab which many people neglect this idea that I'm wearing a physical hijab at my workplace that's more than enough but there is also the social hijab which I think many of our sisters are phenomenal in the way they handle themselves but there is that chance where you begin to give more information about your private life to people who are not necessarily legally related to you you find someone who's willing to listen to you more emotionally you're spending nine hours of the day with certain people who may open up to you more than your husband may open up to you so you feel that when you come back home for example your husband when you come back home they're not paying you any attention but while you're at work from nine to five you feel that the friend across the table is listening to all that you've got to say and is laughing at what you're saying joking with what you're saying you're free Ayatollah al-Khu'i was of the belief that women working in environments of the same gender okay, there's no issue but opposite gender, then not Allah now some parents maybe like that there are some who may take that opinion and say that listen we want to save God our daughter's reputation because we believe that allowing her to work in the mixed environment they're not denying that listen you want to work in for example there are many sisters in the community in London who went on to teach for example at the Islamic schools and there are some sisters who went on to teach in their local schools meaning the local community schools is it obligatory on that sister to work no it's not there's a dilemma here that people aren't understanding and that is that idea that I want to work to earn a living in Islam is not something obligatory for you if you're still being maintained by your parents not obligatory for you to go out and work you may want to go out and fulfill your dreams but not at the cost of sacrificing your principles not at the cost of sacrificing what the religion teaches you because don't say that this then becomes a necessity that if I don't go out and work then that's it I'm now going to throw a fit because I'm not allowed to go out and work Islam says there's no harm go out and work but you have to be wary that where you've gone to work is there a place which is going to get you closer to Allah at the end of that 5pm, 6pm closing time or further away do you find yourself beginning to compromise on certain aspects of your religiosity or not no one's saying you have to work no one's saying you can't work but what we're saying is that all of us male and female have to have a reflection on where we're working what is the taqwa is it growing, the God's consciousness or is it decreasing we'll extend what you've just mentioned in terms of the pressures and the niyah as it were that you've probably highlighted really in terms of let's be honest here now men and women both work in the city aspiring to progress get promoted as it were move up the ranks aside from maintain and you've already touched upon this in terms of hijab and having that what are the rules around for example having perfume at work for example and the reason I'm bringing this in now is that we can join it I think you bringing this in is something fundamental, why? because you may say what's the rule on wearing perfume to work you're now entering a territory of the social hijab I don't have no issue whatsoever in terms of the physical hijab because many of our sisters are absolutely amazing in the physical hijab we don't know how it feels to go on a train at 7.30 a.m. with everyone staring at you when you're wearing your hijab but you're now bringing in the social hijab and that is where there is an issue when it comes to the fulfilling of one's aspirations in a particular career now for example Aitullah Sistani a lady wearing perfume now you know you're going to work you don't want to be the one who everyone's saying that one's got a BO problem that one's got a stink problem that one smells from a mile away Aitullah Sistani allows you to wear perfume when you're leaving the house of course your intention and you mentioned fundamentally what we'll find in a lot of the discussions on Islamic law is there's the intention playing a major role my intention wearing this perfume is not to attract the guys in the workplace to say that you know what can you guess what perfume I'm wearing or you smell amazing but rather my intention behind it is fulfilling the sunnah fulfilling the sunnah because you know perfume is one of the only areas you could do is extravagance and also representing the religion of Islam you know you don't want to be thinking that every time I come across a Muslim I always come across one that stinks sometimes you go to Umrah or Hajj and you're sitting in the plane you've got some people for the love of God go out and buy a deodorant go out and buy some perfume and you're sitting there and there are some you may sit next to and you're wondering how have they been married to each other does that man have to wake up does she have to wake up every day to that so perfume for example wearing ring for example wearing your ring is going to work that's allowed something on your eyelash for example some will use this makeup on the eyes this is allowed so that is allowed just to say that being allowed and just going back to my initial point or query is that allowed for single and married women in terms of married women we mentioned earlier that Ayatollah al-Khoi and Ayatollah al-Sistan both are of the opinion and this opinion we need a different slant yes slant to discuss it in depth both are of the opinion that while the face can be shown Xena on that face is not something that can just be shown to everybody except to your husband except to your those who are mahram to you otherwise the face has to be covered now I know there are certain people out there who will say well the face veil and the niqab and the burqa and all of these things I have an issue with the governments of the time we leave the governments of the time discussion and we've already discussed this I think in terms of the government of the time situation however when we are saying that the khul can be worn on the eyes or rings can be worn or perfume can be worn all of these are permissible for that person who's going towards the workplace there is no harm in any of these but now you may face other issues other complications when you're going to the workplace in relation to certain areas of the social and the physical hijab like which areas do we always get emails on in terms of the city life which areas do people always ask us on you know which areas you'll always see in the emails what do people ask us on they'll ask us for example on alcohol now one of the biggest problems you'll face is you've got man or woman let's not limit this to woman man or woman they want a career the man says to you Allah you have said to me that I have to maintain my family so therefore I have to maintain my family means that I have to earn a living for my family as we know a woman in Islam does not have to earn her living the man her husband is the one who has to maintain okay that person or that lady who's done amazingly well you know she's maintained all her social hijab and they've told that listen there is a deal on the table but we're gonna have to have champagne on that table to conclude this deal and that champagne is right in front of you am I allowed to remain there on that table or no now some will say look I'm not gonna drink but how many fell from the ladder when they slowly started to get close with that particular scene beginning it was nothing diet coke diet coke diet coke orange juice orange juice maybe they moved on the next level red bull for example with a ginger ale and things with ale and beer they started saying that even these have doubts because of the namings then from there there are some Muslims in the workplace they have drunk more than non-Muslims and I remember even being on a flight once where when they said to me alcohol I said you know I'm fasting I'm Muslims I said yeah but so many other Muslims have drunk and you begin to realize that even there are some Muslims in the workplace don't really care so you've got this major issue now what do I do because in this case this lady has worked her socks off to reach this position let's say in a big bank firm and what they're telling her is that you have to attend this conference I have to attend the conference but when I attend this conference I'm also going to you know some of the most important promotions occur not at the conference at the drink session at the end of a Friday or Saturday night that's right I was just gonna mention Friday night inviting you to the pub inviting you to the pub there are some people got promoted because of that I'm sure you've seen people got promoted because of buying a drink or being the type of person who gives a good laugh to someone in a position higher than them one of the lads now there are some of our sisters who have done remarkably well where right from the beginning they have said that I could not be at functions where alcohol is seen and I have great admiration for them because they said from the beginning that this is our principles then there are others who are like well you know what at the end of the day I'm not going to drink the razaq the sustainer is one Imam Ali Mabib A.S. says in the munaajat Mawla Ya Mawla I am the master my master oh my master you are the sustainer you are the sustainer and I am the sustainer who is there for the sustainer except the sustainer if I truly believed that my lord is the one who writes my sustenance you think I'm going to care about manager X and Y that I have to compromise my values but you may find in that situation some of our sisters who are mosque goers who are people who take their kids to the madrasa and they want them to grow up as aspiring believers let them order their drinks we're not going to be drinking and we're also going to make sure that our section is eating fish fish fish or if there's halal halal for example but slowly when you start to compromise one value then how many other values begin to come I think personally this is really down to what is your goal spiritually is it for example to live a nice traditional life coming from the sort of in the background many years back it was really about well nice dinner injured film chill out doesn't matter like you mentioned we can go to a restaurant here and there and if there's booze if there's not it doesn't matter as long as we're not drinking it but do you also think it's really about a lack of men and women understanding that the goal to them maybe that well I just want to be just do the minimum and be a good music good muslim in my eyes but you know marifah of Allah that can come later on down the line because I think that has a place also because of family structure cultural upbringing and so on and so forth there's two factors which are fighting each other one is keeping up with the joneses they have that house with those cars at that private school because both of them are working their socks off we don't look at whether their sex life is healthy we don't look at whether they have their tiffs on a regular basis we don't even look at whether they come back both knackered not wanting to see each other the main thing is the house looks big cars are there private schools are there so if we're going to keep up with them we're both going to have to work so you've got that battle that's taken place where the husband and the wife are both working simply because they want to keep up with the joneses of their community doesn't matter if we don't see each other the whole day or we come back drained then on the other hand there are those who are saying that in this day and age it's not easy to maintain the mortgage unless both of us work absolutely you've got to be practical and these are people who truly work sincerely to build a household of lovers of Allah you know but at the same time they're saying listen we both have to put our hours in the problem we have is what happens when those hours mean that you come back on a Tuesday night and it's Imam al-Jawad's Shahada and the mosque oh I'm drained can't be bothered let's watch it online online hardly anyone stays watching for that hour the kids are jumping the phone is ringing the whatsapp is moving the food is cooking oh you know what I have worked the next day he has worked the next day so Imam al-Sadaq Shahada you know what let's just go 10th of Muharram and 23rd of Ramabad and sadly what begun to happen is sometimes those hours brought a decrease in our spirituality now we have to begin to ask ourselves this question and we're focusing here images of women in Shi'a tradition what happens if my hours means I come back drained because when we talk of rights of the husband, rights of the wife in Islam the rights of the wife she has to be maintained doesn't have to cook doesn't have to clean doesn't have to do all these household chores one of the things they say is for her to be ready for her husband now you're going out to work come home husband has a hack over you on this area you come back drained and you neglect each other now let's not look at those husbands who may be stubborn or may be arrogant at that moment let's look at those husbands who may at that moment say hey don't worry it's okay you know how long that lasts don't worry it's okay let's be frank here so that just in case people are living in cuckoo land let's be frank hey you know I've missed you the whole day let's go to the bedroom let's go wherever some want to be more formal others want to be more impulsive they want to there and then at that moment yeah but okay babe you know what I appreciate what you're going through it's okay and now or later that guy's mind's wondering yeah that guy's mind's already thinking you know I'm not getting nothing here drain drain drain drain miss then mrs smith are always drained working long hours she's working long hours she wants to knock out but she's not in the mood managers pissed her off at work not in the mood her not being in the mood I'm in the mood men only think from one place but she's not in the mood obviously I at this moment what do I begin to think my mind begins to wonder but I have the decency in me to say that you know what my wife's struggling give it time yeah sure once this becomes a norm I'm not in the mood I'm tired I'm tired I'm not in the mood someone has to begin to reassess this golden keeping up with the Joneses world and dream that I have is it clashing with the right which Islam has ordained because if there's a clash then the Haq or the Haqquq which Islam has spoken about the rights which Islam has spoken about have to come above and believe you me one of the biggest problems and frustrations that leads to divorce there are some who are divorced with mansions how many do you know divorce with mansions but they divorce with a mansion and there are some who divorce beautiful cars kids up for higher school everyone's moody when they're coming home mood sometimes not all sometimes that lady who they said is the housewife boring bringing up the kids not seeing a divine element in what she's doing sometimes she's the one who's got a bit even though she's had a difficult day as well not the same pressures as Moorgate and Oldgate and Barbican and Manhattan's avenues and Wall Street's and this business district maybe those divorces happened maybe not all the time because it could happen the other way as well but maybe those divorces also happened because you started to take too much on in a world where there was no buzz anymore when you were coming home sure yeah I think that's a quick issue here viewers will be going into a break very shortly please do call in for your questions the telephone number is 0203 515019 whatsapp also your message is 07939917163 we're going to be going off in a moment or two so now we'll probably come back after the break and we'll look at issues around perhaps being in prominent positions barriers as it were obstacles that they face more challenges involved and probably more so do join us again after the break Salaamu Alaykum Alaykum and welcome back to tonight's live show on Imam Hussein TV where we're looking at the images of women in Shia tradition and focusing on ladies or sisters in their career or being home carers as it were Salaamu Alaykum just before the break you mentioned about possible breakdowns as it were now let's just focus on the flip side on successful results or positive results as it were where it's the other way for marriages you mentioned obviously there are women out there who are housewives perhaps not trying to limit them as it were and they're doing the best deed according to their family structure raising educating children and so on and so forth and they are they are also facing challenges as you mentioned you've got monthly, weekly, hourly deadlines in the city all over the world and so on and so forth companies and there's no clash there so in terms of success there what can be sort of gauge from that as it were I think it's all about communication ultimately you know you to begin your marriage and maybe at the beginning when there's no children I think some have achieved a wonderful balance where they believe that they needed to start the early years struggling to build the household both working quite hard and then after that the communication will dictate who will continue to be the breadwinner maybe they can both work hand in hand but the main thing is it doesn't begin to affect them when they return back home to the detriment of that house so now we have a caller on the line salamu alaykum alaykum yes sister your question please so basically every week I get a lot of sisters confiding in me and they tell me that they feel like they're being let down by this ummah they're confiding in me and telling me that they're being beaten or even sexually abused by their husbands and their family members and they're too afraid to speak out because of what the community would do to them and I have revered sisters telling me about how respected they are how they're being used and abused through marriage and that the community just protects the individuals that have shattered their lives and these sisters they have little faith left in Islam because they're starting to see it as a religion that only cares about the welfare of men and I just the thing is like I really just want to inspire you Sayidina and like any all of our noble scholars that might be watching this to continue speaking out for us and speaking about our issues because it's all well and good for us telling the non-Muslims that Islam doesn't oppress women but when our actions are contradicting our words, you know, they just see us as hypocrites and this is a religion that made women like Sayidah Fatima Sayidah Zaynab, Uncle Form, Hamidah Sebiqah, some of the best scholars that I've ever lived so what I just really want to see from Sayidah Mara and our other noble scholars may Allah bless you is please just be bold in bringing forward our issues because this is the only way we can hope to change the mentality of the people we need to encourage our girls to seek Islamic knowledge so they can be the future female scholars that our girls can go to for help that they can represent the sisters of the whole and I know that my words they're difficult to hear but I just really hope that this inspires you insha'Allah insha'Allah thank you Islam doesn't oppress women, Muslims do there's no doubt Muslim men out there in some cases their behaviors are atrocious and domestic abuse no doubt is the worst of all when a person is ready to beat his wife or slap his wife you know you hear these stories all the time and many of us are trying to speak out against these areas there are many campaigns which are trying to speak out I'm not saying it's perfect far from it but I think with shows like this hopefully we can begin to educate more the men of our community on their rights and their responsibilities especially in terms of their wives there are many out there with their wives who have neglected them and sometimes emotional abuse is as bad as physical abuse and I thank the sister for you know raising this but we're trying our hardest as well with these shows to try and remove the arrogance that exists in the patriarchal societies if I may just add and I had a point to actually bring to your attention for this show hopefully you can benefit the sister and sisters out there I personally think there should be some sort of bureau on office where sisters can actually go and get some sort of guidance from a fellow sister or a female who can actually guide her now naturally a lot of men would say well that's wrong because that's clashing with what goes on in our homes and so and so forth but they also need to express what's going on as it were in a halal and fair way and I don't think they're being heard entirely at all I agree with you it's a big issue definitely I think there needs to be hostels not being beaten black and blue by their husbands I think that's the first thing and I think secondly there needs to be resident alimahs as well as resident alimahs there are many communities which have a Maulana who is always male but why not have a lady who can represent the sisters as well and hear them out maybe these are steps which some communities have taken which we can also implement in the near future I have a prayer for you hi my question to say alimah is that should a woman delay having children for the sake of making her career or is that frowned upon from an Islamic perspective now you know of course the Holy Prophet peace be upon his family we follow his sunnah and everything and if he felt that you know what the best thing for me is to postpone having the religion of Islam can spread all that imam alia alayhi salam said to fahd al-zahra when they got married that you know what let's wait before we have any children so that we can build our lives together what many don't realize is when a child comes into your life there's a third door of rizq opened for you so you've got the rizq which Allah swt has promised you you've got the rizq which is promised to your wife and now you've got the rizq that is the child and is promised to the child and the Holy Prophet has the famous tradition that you know get married and increase your number and I will be proud even of the miscarried baby on the day of judgement so while of course the decision is between the husband and the wife and you know yourselves better than anyone certainly in Islam it's highly recommended to have children and to build the family yeah okay so the questions are going to be coming in quite fast as it were let's now look at possibly and I don't mean to be rude here and I'm sure Amar doesn't mean to be as well but perhaps professions which can be problematic you know for you know compromising the harmony specifically for example positions where you know that females may sort of encounter or go towards what do you think about that as it were so I don't know if the profession is always the problem or if how you socially maintain your hijab in that profession is sometimes an issue okay and that could be for any profession mind you could even be working in an Islamic school as a Muslim woman from 9 till 3 then your interaction with the male teachers in that school can bring about a problem you know within the household and maybe that's why Ayatollah had thought he was adamant that you know what if women want to work they can work but in female only environments now let's say there are other environments which are fundamental for the growth of any society and jobs which are fundamental careers which are fundamental there are always going to be certain issues which emerge where a person has to begin to ask themselves that is this compromising my reality or not now let me give you an example the females in our community for example decide to un-become doctors there are a number of issues that emerge where however great the need is for those female doctors and even in the time of the Holy Prophet there was that lady by the name of Shifa or Layla was you know a lady treating those who were going through illnesses in Arabia so even though it's recommended to seek knowledge and science and biology and chemistry and physics all these natural sciences are fundamental for all there is still the element there that there's going to be certain issues while working where a person's social and physical can be compromised now what do we do so for example the good thing about many of the hospitals even when we're living in the western world in countries which are not predominantly Muslim majority countries is that gloves are fundamental and I think that barrier of gloves solves a lot of issues but then we had the issue which female doctors faced where you had an elbow where this area had to be exposed now what happens because in Islam this has to all be covered the face and the hands this area can be shown but now you're saying bear below the elbows that means that when they're wearing they're going to do so that became an issue where certain hospitals try to find a solution for their female Muslim doctors where some said let us wear some form of plastic there others said let us wear something under the scrubs that we wear so you had this debate that emerged then you had the female Muslim doctor who's wearing hijab that some will say that this is a foreign object that can't be in the operating theater what many don't realize is okay how about if a Muslim female doctor decides that she'll have a hijab which is specific for the operating theater and not to be used anywhere else okay so that could be something that can be worn which is specific for the operating theater then you have for example when the woman is touching someone you've gone to the female doctor am I allowed to go to that female doctor I've got a call for example that female Muslim doctor in that case gloves once again is something which is highly recommended within these hospitals to be worn and that barrier is enough yes yes because many people will ask that if I'm going to be a doctor I'm going to have to touch somebody of course as long as there's no lustful intentions no sexual intention there which I God forbid happens but you'll see that the majority will follow an oath where they're going to be ethically responsible or they don't even you may look at that but they look at it as a tube that's blocked and needs to be worked on you know they can get into that mode for example and then you've got for example some of the nurses out there who may have to wash the body of somebody who's not mahram to them but again you can use gloves to wash that body without having to look at the private parts so you've got all of these situations where the profession isn't an issue I know there was an issue it had with whether it's a man or a woman going into certain areas of the legal world maybe areas of criminal law where there's going to be a problem with the contradictions with Islamic law on certain judgments you're going to have to make but in terms of for example female male touching mahram issues if I'm going to be a female in the workplace and everybody's hands well lady from the beginning can turn around and say that you know part of our Islamic tradition is that this is the way we shake hands or some go like this for example unless of course it becomes something that harms the image of the religion of Islam that's something that brings embarrassment there may be a discussion on that area so all of these are things to consider but for me from the emails that I'm receiving and from some of the things that I'm witnessing it's more of a case of the the psychological and sometimes physical pressures when you're coming back to your husband at home and the husbands can be the naggiest and the most difficult anyway when they've had a long day but when you're coming back and the two of you don't have that same desire or spark or you're just drained and then the minds begin to wonder and did we really both need to work those long hours weren't things going well couldn't we have balanced in a different way but each situation is of course different so we have a question now Salam Dr Amal from Pakistan I want to know about social hijab you mentioned the social hijab term can you please explain it in detail sir love from Pakistan I don't know how easy social hijab is in the workplace these days why because you've got to be part of the banter but also I think the social hijab I think it's more of a term that's used in the West and perhaps in the East it's less known it's less known but it still needs to be mentioned why? because even in the East you can still find a situation where your husband's at work you're at work and you're mixing and here's a problem which I don't think anyone has put their finger on at the moment and I'm starting where I'm starting with even cousins now let's go to the workplace are we allowed in Islam and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by discussing this but are we allowed in Islam to even go out double dating like you know sometimes the husband has best friend the wife and the best friend's wife are we allowed that in Islam or not laughing and joking as a Muslim wearing physical hijab social hijab are we allowed that where we're letting ourselves go basically a little bit are we allowed that or not for example how about my brother's wife be chilling with my brother's wife who's not a mahram to me now when we're finding that these have become a norm now that you know I could be chilling with my brother's wife we're going out together in the car to pick something up while my brother's at home enjoy the people out there will say listen your brother's wife nothing's gonna happen we don't work on probability and many many a person out there can tell you of a story of how their own family member ruined their marriages but when we see that there's that social hijab which Islam is already ordained in terms of who you can mix and socialize with who you can't mix and socialize with those who have already passed those stages where they hug their cousins who are not mahram to them those ones when they go to work it's normal they look at it and they're like well you know what I'm not exactly gonna hug everyone yeah and there are many out there who'll tell you I've worked for 15 years and I've never drunk alcohol and I've never gone to the bar with anyone ask her how many hugs I might have just hugged like 50 not even numbers I might have hugged my gay friend at work because the gay friend is not attracted to the opposite gender okay that's still not permissible I might have hugged them but they hugged me and I don't find a way in which I could tell them stop hugging so we've been hugging now for the last 7 and a half years we've been hugging for 7 and a half years but you said to me that when you were at that workplace you weren't able to stay away from alcohol in Islam staying away from alcohol is a great fee but there's other areas where now your social hijab is that you find it normal to hug somebody because they know them for so long then there becomes an issue now with that social hijab as well there might be that banter in that workplace and that banter might lead on to you know what let me and you just go down for let's get a coffee together you wanna do a lunch this week there aren't many out there we're not gonna be affected by lunch with a colleague at work there are some who work there are some whose marriages were broken there are some who found that that colleague at work was ready to listen to all their problems that they found more empathy from that colleague than their called husband at home now that person's wearing brilliant hijab they're wearing physical hijab which is brilliant but is that enough well Shala I think you've quite brilliantly broken that down and I think there is definitely a neglect an oversight ignorance as it were from a lot of people who for my understanding for my understanding and my observance have this notion well you know you can't judge me and it always comes back to that you see and I can do what I want and I'm not doing anything I mentioned you know I refrain from alcohol but I can do this money is clean and the interpretation of Sharia I think has been destroyed by a lot of people but some of them are innocent they are I have to say this that I believe that there are many out there who try and have a wonderful Islamic lifestyle at work some are balanced brilliantly by the way let's be clear about that there are some couples who have balanced this brilliantly but then I'm just just hesitant on certain areas that I'm witnessing where I'm like thinking that you know what even with that brilliant physical hijab the banter at the workplace can sometimes mean that we're letting go of ourselves spiritually to the detriment not just of us but to our marriages as well yeah I totally agree totally agree mind you there are many ladies out there who will even say to you that I worked career there's nothing more beautiful than looking in my kids eyes and there are many ladies out there who are on six figure salaries and I tell you what they wish they wish in their late 30s now they have a kid believe you me they've done brilliant in Korea but they're depressed because where's the kid there's no child and the Quran didn't just say have a child there are many Muslim couples out there have a child the maid is doing the work not them this is something I'd like to focus on the maid has brought up that kid that kid mom and dad have only had made a statement to the rest of their circle that we have a kid where's mom traveling where's dad traveling where's mom traveling where's dad traveling so who's looking after the kid that poor maid is the one who's looking after the kid absolutely and when the maids begin to look after our kids and the parents are not there and the warmth of a mom the heart of a mom the nourishment physically and emotionally of a mom once that begins to go missing all sorts begins to happen a child is not a statement for me to take the boxes of life a child is a form of rizq from God therefore there are some out there who are having children but they're having children just to take a box that I don't get in a state of depression at 38 that I've not had a kid absolutely we'll come back to that point just now just to intervene there's a question here I just wanted to share my personal experience working as a full-time woman I found myself struggling to find that balance between being there for my children and my husband and working full-time in a professional job I decided to stop as I got to a stage where I thought what is important in life and of course it's my husband and children I believe that pursuing a career and working full-time should be done before marriage and before having children after marriage a woman can continue to work but part-time if the opportunity exists so that she can find it easier to get that balance of being there for her family and working for herself well this brings up another area and that is working from home and that's an interesting area which I think more can delve in and excuse I've worked the whole day from home and the husband is like where are you I'm busy one more thing I'll come up in a second one more thing and before you know it you're like hold on a minute you're more busy here than you were busy when you were working outside but I do think the working from home angle is something important but I think we've missed out a lot on the Islamic psychology of all of this Allah SWT there is great reverence for the mother there's great reverence for the upbringing there's great reverence for the religious, emotional, spiritual nourishment that is there there's great reverence for observing the rights of your wife and observing the rights of the husband and I just hope that more people pay attention to these areas rather than go with that tide that independence means freedom and being at home requires emancipation because there are some ladies who are at home I'll tell you what they're educated bright as you can get, charismatic and they've done a brilliant job bringing up a wonderful family yes, yes thank you for that now just to continue on from there you mentioned high flyers as it were either the husband or the wife or both as it were and I'm going to throw in the other side as well shortly after so employing nannies or maids as you want to call it or pairs, look after children you mentioned obviously ticking a box because they don't want to go past the cell by date let's be frank but why do you think that's happening though do you think it's just again issues around spirituality or that their fulfillment is basically to progress to actually obtain a six-figure salary I think the husband has a major role in terms of the way they speak to their wife as to how the wife's world view also develops a husband can make his wife feel like a million dollars when he sees the self sacrifice that's involved from her even though she may have graduated from a university better than him he can see that this lady from the morning you know the female is an amazing creation they can multitask much better than us for me if you put me now and you tell me that I'm trying to switch I'm going to try and change the channel answer the phone and pick up a cup of tea and go to the place whereas you'll see her holding one child laughing with the other crying with the other singing with the other trying to prepare that meal in the morning and your clothes there the buses come, the cars come it's phenomenal but a husband who doesn't appreciate can sometimes lead someone to think you know what maybe I've lived a mundane life a mundane existence they forget that what they're doing is divine it's an element to what you're doing but when that husband doesn't appreciate then sometimes that person will begin to think that you know what how can you employ a player nannies I can go out and work and it's not just because they want to fulfill some ambition it's also because they feel that everything has gone past they didn't really see what everyone else was doing and that husband showing no appreciation sometimes the husband has a major role and we got to make clear that having a nanny having all these things at home is not forbidden but when your kids have a better relationship with the nanny then with the mum there's an issue there are some Arab kids in the Middle East I don't think they saw their mum too much the mum was either lying on holidays somewhere shopping somewhere and they've got for example a Filipino nanny or Sri Lankan nanny from Africa these poor ladies are carrying these kids and you know some of these Middle Eastern kids like he's not a human he's a chocolate walking because this guy's a fat kid walking around because the mum's not there so the nanny the nanny has to quieten down so you've got like Santa Claus as a fat child walking around I will never forget when I used to work at one department store and I'll never forget this one kid from the Middle East with the nanny yes no word of a lie it must have taken 20 minutes to come up the stairs so it wasn't the escalator it was your classic stairs honestly it must have taken 20 minutes to come up his thighs were bigger than my whole body this poor kid who was this relation where's his mum where's the mum there's no mum so if we're going to go into that world where okay, both of us will work but the kids have got no relationship with us except gifts sure, we've been spoiled the nasa issue two questions said now the production team have been quite adamant that I pose this question to you Zamir Hussain question for the show in Islamic law there's a law I'm going to rephrase that what is the law by the scholars what does the say that when a female is mature at the age of nine must start obligations should it be looked at again possibly reformed so that's the one question isn't it different for each person rather than a blanket age so yeah that's basically it there is a debate for sure concerning when is the age of adolescence for the female normally the general opinion is the age of nine you see that in many legal manuals but there are certain scholars who have differed with this opinion and some have even spoken of the age of 12 or the age of 13 some might say it's puberty for example others might say the onset of the menstrual cycle can even go much older than 13 sure and so there is a debate there some say that the obligations shouldn't begin at nine should begin a few years later so it's not everyone who has the opinion of the age of nine okay fine and the next question is if I understand women women are not allowed to work outside in a Nahmarim atmosphere that's the question he's asking but the situation is different nowadays because everyone's behaviors everyone is so greedy to earn by hook or by crook my question is how can we prevent this this is from Amsterdam so I suppose what the the questioner wants to know is basically in today's times has it changed there's a Nahmarim atmosphere you know can we prevent it there's nothing easy one because as I said earlier Ayatollah Al-Khu is saying that women work but they work in women only, environment but then you've got Ayatollah Sistani in the code of practice for Muslims in the west when such a book is published there's a recognition that look in the west these environments are normally mixed environments and he provides guidance on how you behave in these mixed environments so as long as a person can maintain the social and physical hijam while living in the western world they can reach the highest levels within their careers but like we said we have to make sure that the rights which Allah has asked us to observe are not rights which are forfeited I don't compromise my name is Bilal Raza thank you Sayana your speeches have really inspired me my question is if the woman wants to work after marriage whose decision is it the husband's, her or is it a mutual decision if she's in a contract pre-marriage if she's in a contract pre-marriage and say the contract is a two year contract and she gets married a year into that contract husband has no right to tell her to stop working she can continue because there is a contract with that company for the two year period of course then she can discuss it with them if she wants to but the husband's not right however after marriage then the husband has every right to ask her not to work while he's maintaining which is his duty thank you now there's a question that I wanted to know and I'm sure a lot of women out there and this might not be you might not be able to answer it now I think there's the number of different factors in it there's clearly an answer for it okay but a lot of women don't know why the man is compelled or the man has the right as it were to lay down certain rules over a wife as it were the man has you know he's got no or not there's nothing whatsoever that the man can compel his wife to do he may have a right for his wife to be ready for him but in terms of the man you know you could compel your wife by saying to her that you've got to cook for me or clean for me there's no right there at all and and even if she works he has no rights to take any of the money that she earns okay we've just got about four or five minutes so I wanted to go back and revisit you mentioned we spoke a few minutes back about children possibly being neglected as it were and I mentioned and you also mentioned having a cook or a nanny and so and so forth there's nothing wrong with that for example within reason but let's look at the other side in terms of today's practical living conditions whereby two people newly married they're looking to get onto the property ladder as it were both looking to work but perhaps the wife initially says I don't want to work and so and so forth what sort of constraints are involved now in terms of today's society having a successful marriage you know progressing having children it might be quite a deep question but we've only got a two, three minute session now left I think a lot of the problems are the keeping up with the Joneses grass is green on the other side effect where it's like well look at what they've done look at what they've done you don't know whether there's a handout from the dad of the person helping his son get on that property ladder you don't know what the issues are within the household the main thing for you is help stabilize that marriage now helping stabilize that marriage they are the best judges of the way forward Islam is not going to have an issue that the man is working and the woman is working this is between them their communication dictates which way they want to head but the main thing is that they have an understanding that the main sustainer of all of us ultimate sustainers Allah subhanaw wa ta'ala while we're doing things we can only as the Quran says Allah subhanaw wa ta'ala opens the doors for us okay well let's try and make sure that whether you're a male or a female that we try and maintain that Islamic ethos you know the ethics the morality of the religious Islam wherever we may be and if we find that we're compromising this then we may have to look for another way of building that household yeah sure okay I think we have to look for another way of building that household yeah sure okay I think we've run out of time so from Dr. Sayyed Aman al-Shawani so I'm going to comment for myself Muhammad Ali inshallah hopefully we'll see you again next week and maybe we can continue the topic again inshallah