 Welcome to the Monday December third meeting of the popular design review committee. I have a lot of members and staff introduce themselves. I'm Martha Smersky, Liz Pritchett, Meredith Crandall, staff. Stephen Everett. Hannah Smith. And unless anybody has anything else beforehand, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? Your second. Second. All in favor of the agenda, raise your hand. And we'll go straight to our first application for 32 Main Street, Downstreet Housing and Community Development. Come back to your usual spot at the table. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. And introduce yourself to anyone who doesn't know you. Sure. Alison Friedkin, Downstreet Housing and Community Development. Describe your site bills. So this would be the entrance sign for the main entrance of Downstreet, which is on the backside of the building. So saying main and entrance just kind of feels a little odd. But just make sure short folks are oriented. So the residential, the accessible, all that, all that entrance is on the parking lot side. It's initially a shared entrance with Opashon, and then there's a second door leading into the residential or a second door, I guess a third door, going further into Opashon. So this on the outside of the building. They don't have the photos. I know. I don't think I'd have put in the parking photo. I can run downstairs real quick and get them if you want them. Or folks, if you recall, I mean, there's the door into Opashon's on the backside. And then this is immediately the left of that, you know, fixed to the brick and requesting a three by three sign that, well, kind of just like that, except for not quite those colors. But that's okay, just because the color is soft a little bit. Yeah, it's actually even more colorful. This is a redder, the little redder, and then our dots are our standard. I'll show you on our business card. It's the same if you go to any of our properties throughout the downtown. So here's a big, so we'll try to get the coloring of, you know, the dots. Do you want to give me one and I'll attach it? Of course. But again, you know, what we just put up at. And the background for the lettering is, that's an accurate color there. Is it closer to the housing and community development? No, it's not that. It's not, yeah. Is it more of a reddish brown? Yeah, like a brick, kind of. You know, let me pull up. So that makes this look more green. How much it's just my eyes comparing it with the other colors. And then this access is the elevator tower as well. So inside our elevator and stairs. Correct. Are there any other signs on that backside that are close to yours? No, there'll be no other signs. The door, obochons, I presume, and that's part of what Audra calculated for, you know, total signage. We presume that on the door, on the glass part, they'll do like they do on all their other doors, which is, you know, they have lettering that says, obochons, or what else, their doors. But that's on the inside of, you just mean for the look? It's on the glass on the outside, too, versus the area. Yeah, just how that, how they go together. And that's part of the reason why we need a fairly prominent sign, because somebody comes around. I mean, obviously, you're first thing you look at is a door, and it's going to say, you know, obochons, and so that's why we felt like we needed a good sign next to it, and with the, especially with the arrow entrance, because it's not completely obvious, because they have to go in that first door and then in a second door to access the apartments. So there's this image that has the sign? Let me go down and do that while you're discussing, because there were images of all the different sides of the building, and I think Audra misunderstood when I was like, well, we don't need all of these images for the sign calculation thing for the packet, and then I think she just didn't pull that image that showed exactly what was going on. So you have any signs on the front of them, though, because there are a couple of stairways on the front, correct? There is just one stair that's for us. It's just a single door, and what we discussed, not a sign. There might be, you know, lettering on a glass again. You could do this on the inside of the glass, you know, made up. Right. I know if you do on the inside. I found out that interesting little, when next door, do capital copy, and I'm like, excuse me, can I ask you a really strange question? That lettering, because it was like way up high in there, I'm like, that lettering, is it on the inside or the outside? I know she's grabbing the, but here is the original, or here's a, I'll just pass it around and folks can, oops, go back. And I think that's a better representation of the colors. Of the colors. Yeah. So Audra Abashon's and Down Street, who else is in that building, anybody? No. Is it just? No, we're the second and third floor. They have the first floor, and then we have the second and third. And then there's nothing above that? Correct. There's no fourth floor. There's only three floors. Let's hope not. Have you thought about putting the lettering on the door, so that it's clear to... We asked Abashon what their intention was, and again, hopefully Meredith will bring it back. Their intention was to do their double doors, so they have the other double doors, and then the double doors in the front, and, you know, they wanted a consistency, and so basically they're using up the door. The whole space. You don't have enough room. Yeah. Unless you... We'd be down way down here at the bottom, or something like that. And one quick question, I noticed that the colors on your representation on the phone, the photo, are more of a reddish brown, which is a nice color. Is there a black outline around the perimeter? Of course in my haste, I just shut it, you know. It appears to be here, but... I believe there is. Let me see if it shows up on the picture. And I'm also, again, thinking about what's in all the other... Because the background color is close to the brick, it would be nice to have the black outline just to separate that from the brick, so it doesn't sort of melancholy to the brick and disappear to the brick. You don't really live without these things, right? I believe that there is a fine black line. So these signs, the sign itself is like a plywood with a very thin aluminum. That's what they actually do the printing on. And I believe on that it gets this little black, you know, edge all the way around. That's how it's sealed than a real boundary. It's almost like a band around the... The sign is a sandwich of aluminum plywood. So the black is almost like a band that goes around it to protect the edges from the weather. I think so, I think so. Which is a really good idea. So this is a lovely picture. Our copy is still printing. It's actually a clear field the farther away. In general, I think. But anyway, so you've got the double door, Obertschein's double door right here, and then the blue is indicating where our sign would go, and the rest is solid break. Where is your door? The double door is this right here, this big double door. So that's the entrance to the door? Yes, you first go through this door, and then once you step in, if you were to turn left, there's a second door that's our entry door, and it's controlled, and straight ahead is another door that takes you into Obertschein. Looks like there's a door in the field, I think. Yes, so everything passed the double door, the Obertschein, and this is a new door. Everything passed that will be solid break. If I take that back, there's a window. It's not there now. A smaller version of this large piece of plywood. There will be a window here, but that gets filled in, that gets filled in. And you said Abishan's is putting their sign on the glass. Did you happen to grab it in her whole packet, or just this one? I actually grabbed the whole of the original in case you knew it. Yeah, I think I'll just see the wall. Sorry. This one, it doesn't show wonderful, but so in this one, this is their entrance, the back parking lot, the other side of the bomb path. Here's an example of their double door, and then this little orange is like their decal that says Obertschein, and then up above they have their own. So like I said, all their doors, they already have a pattern. Yeah, a way that they do it. That's on that one, and then also, and there's a different picture of it, but their front double, you know, that are deep in here, and also on here. So was that just out of curiosity? Was that some sort of agreement that came to you? I mean, it sounds like a shared vestibule, but it's going to have Obertschein's logo and graphic on it. Is that by hearing that right? Well, it's not really shared in that it's theirs. Do you have to enter through their doors in order to get it? Yes, but I mean they own it. Now you get deep into the weeds of like what parts of the buildings, you know, the different entities own, they do maintain. So it's not considered common. And no, I believe that they still maintain control of that entrance. Interesting. I mean, they've been wonderful to work with. I don't want to in any way, you know, and we're comfortable with, you know, this came about, I talked to our property management staff. Initially I showed them an example without the word entrance in the arrow, and they said, looks great, but just if you could put that in there and make it super clear after that, they felt that everybody would be fine with that. The sign of the arrow is pretty clear, and once you go in, you'll have a sign probably on the elevator and then the stairs going up. Well, again, when you first step into the vestibule, again, they're double doors right in front of you. Again, I'm sure they'll have them all log it out, and then our door will do vinyl on there that'll say, you know, entrance to French block apartments, and there's a, you know, your keypad and all that over there. So I think once they get through that first door, they won't be too confused. It's a little confusing, though. You would think that it would be considered common, and that it would be... Well, they're open seven days a week, seven to seven, and so, you know, it's really there. We really tried not to, you know, step on any toes there. They're running a, you know, a business, and I guess having their door labeled is, you know, pretty important and clear to them. I guess where I was going with that was, you know, if it were common, then it would make sense to kind of have these stacking signs where they would, you know, all kind of point you to the vestibule and it'd be cleaner, you know. Consider the details. Now, sometimes work with what you got, right? Yeah. If anybody who's invited, they'll say, we're above Abishan. Go around back. Go through the Abishan doors. Yeah. That's our hope. You know, we're into it a couple of months and we're getting a lot of feedback. I know Abishan would be, you know, open to having a conversation if we really were getting a lot of feedback and, you know, it wasn't clear, people were confused. I mean, people go wandering through the store that aren't, so they don't want that either. So, I mean, I think if they're, you know, needed to be a revisit, it's not like they've said, oh my gosh, you know, forget it or whatever, but I think as it's a first attempt that seemed like this would be made everybody happy. Yeah, no, I get it. It's just a little strange. It'd be nice to see French block, you know, across the double doors and then have these signs stacked on the side. I would have loved to have them. So, is your sign lit at all or is it just on the building? Uh, it is not lit. No, it is not lit. Just on the building. Questions or comments? Are the units getting filled up? They are. I mean, we haven't signed any leases yet. We will sign leases after the first of the year, but we certainly have quite a few people that are interested. So, yeah, property management's chomping at the bit to get in there. When's your open house? January 3rd. You're all invited. You'll probably be getting an email just even this evening. They just left the office and they were frantically sending out those out. So, yeah, January 3rd. We're looking forward to be able to finally show it off, because as you all know, people have been wondering about this for a long time. You mentioned a door on the front side of the building, on the main street side. Is that just for administrative offices or is that also up to the apartments? It's up to the apartments. There's actually no offices in this building. It's all the scratch footage is used for apartments. That's another entrance resident with their own access or there will also be a keypad there and somebody could get buzzed in. But it's straight up steep stairs, so we don't expect a whole lot of traffic. But it was available to us. So, I mean, for folks who are able to and want to go out that way, that's great. Did you keep the atreums? Yes. Absolutely. They're going to be gorgeous. I have actually never been in the building when they haven't been boarded up, because they've always been and until they're done. So, I can only imagine the light that's going to come flooding through there. There's, I think, five light wells, so skylights, but then the light comes all the way down through the two floors. That's what Stephen's referring to. It's really beautiful. You guys are going to be just shocked at the before and afters, but anyway. So, an old building that was restored in Virginia that had those is what they did. They had plants and little pulleys so they could raise them lower than to maintain them more. So, you had this atrium with some of the light coming down through with these ferns. Absolutely beautiful. That sounds beautiful. My understanding, well, let's go speak to that. My understanding is the feature is not uncommon in other parts of the country, but certainly uncommon here in Vermont, which was one of the reasons that we were strongly encouraged, as I'm told to. I keep them, but yeah. The housing in Vermont building, if they're still in it, is it safe wells for you? They are not, but that had it. Yeah. Anybody have any other questions, comments, suggestions? If not, I'll run down through the criteria which you're familiar with right now. Number one, design review standards, preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district involves an historic structure acceptable, or many of the exterior decided that the properties in the district acceptable. Impatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable. Impatibility of proposed landscaping, none of this application. Prevention of the use of incompatible designs, buildings, color schemes, or exterior materials acceptable. Location of appearance of all utilities. Is there any lighting more of this side? No, there is not. No? There's probably a light out back anyway. There's probably enough ambient to see it. I think in the parking, you know, in the parking area, yes. Okay. So again, not proposed. Conformance. I'm sorry, recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant justice including gateway views of the city and state house. This is probably not a gateway view in the back of the building. It's actually got a pretty awesome view of the dome. If you turn around and look the other way. Conformance with city skate placement and design recommendations acceptable. Compatibility with subject property and adjacent properties acceptable. Show not obscure significant architecture with details acceptable. Consistency in uniformity of multiple signs not applicable. Elimination not applicable. And it's in the banners not applicable. Individual letters that fix painted during grave directly in the building of the structure are encouraged. This sign in its location is acceptable. And then I just did a clarification because it was included as part of the original application. But you clarified it. And just so the application is clarified and indicate that the sign has a black parameter band to affect the aluminum plywood period used at its construction. And also you clarified with your photo that the actual background color on the top and bottom of the sign is a reddish brown which is compatible with all in favor of the application. Raise your hand. This rules five. Administrative approval. Yep. Go back to our office and we'll issue the permit. Wonderful. Thank you all very much. And then January 3rd hope to see you all there. Hope to see you all there. I had a chance to look at the minutes. So just a note. I know we looked at the October 30th minutes last time and I have made that comment. Wait, I thought I'd fixed that. Audra has provided the wrong a draft of the minutes which is the minutes on proofed. So I've made the changes we discussed last time for the October 30th minutes plus and then created a red line showing the changes I was supposed to have made. But you didn't get to see. You can go through and just look at the red lines when you get to the structure of the period that was not. And fix some errors. Did Audra get them? And we still don't have enough people for the 30th because Eric's not here. You're right. We don't have enough for the 30th anyway. So it's the same. Audra's off her game today. I assumed she'd given you guys those minutes but just not me. So I couldn't get it out for myself but not extra speech. So maybe we just do those in the next meeting. That sounds good. Eric will be here. I wasn't here to see your packet. It's different. It's okay. Anybody else have anything to offer? These things very short. It does. Especially compared to the last few. Yeah. I do have copies of the 19th. I did bring those. If you want to do the 19th. Please wait. Sorry. I'm hoping to get dinner before the deal is done. Still might additional wise could be strung. Oh, yeah. I got that. Thank you. Everybody has a chance to look at the November 19th. Yeah. Worthy October 30th minutes? Well that's whatever I'm saying. They were approved. I think the one that you reviewed was the draft that we originally got from the recording secretary. Not the one that I had made a whole bunch of edits to. Which is why I went south. I was like, oh, comment on something. I thought I changed that. So that's why I brought them back today. To make sure they were actually accurate. We have to re-approve them. Okay. One step backwards then. Yes. One step back. Two steps forward. Okay. Do I hear a motion to approve the November 19th? I make a motion to approve the minutes from November 19th. So you're second. All in favor of approving the minutes for November 19th. Raise your hand. So the four of us here for Eric to come back for the 19th. So we can get the 15th. Yes. We have that. We wouldn't choose what we need Eric, Seth, and Ben for those anyway. Yes. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn. I'm second. All in favor, raise your hand. On your way out the door.