 And we are live punctual. Are we? Are we? Very punctual. We're a little earlier than usual. Are you sure? Yes. Yes. Yes. So our guest today, Alan. Yeah. Cuckits. Orders. It's a, you know, former Judas Priest. I'm not sure how much on the KK's Priest, Les Binks Priesthood. Just a man who's been around the block, a professional, you know, someone drummers look up to over the years, a legacy. The one and only. Is that a good buildup? Les Binks. How'd you like that? Was that good? That's good, man. Yeah. Like the motorhead. A little early today, but why not? So Les, you know, we could talk, we could talk as much as you like, as long as you like. It's all good. We know that there's the KK's Priest. And I guess everybody was kind of a little, I guess the word is disappointed. We'll start off with that and we'll go back into your history too. It was a little sad, right? Because everybody was really looking forward to you being part of the project. And I know you told me, like, your wrist, you had some issues with your wrist. Maybe you could just give everybody a little more of an explanation as to what happened. Sure. Well, basically, and this all came about from a one-off show that we did up in Wolverhampton at KK Steel Mill with Ripper. And it really was that. It was supposed to be a one-off thing. And I think KK enjoyed being out there on stage again and, you know, he got the itch to go back on the road and to get out and play to the fans again. And so he contacted me again after that, shortly afterwards. And asked me if I would like to make it a more regular band. And I agreed to that, thought it'd be a good idea. And so we'll have to do some fresh material, get an album together and then do a tour. And he set up management and everything else. And everything was looking rosy. So that was the plan. You know, let's do an album and then go straight on tour. And this was back in, and we did that show in November 2019, you know, so it's, you know, we're in 2001 now, you know, so of course, you know, the recording sessions were set up and I had a bit of a nasty accident and injured my wrist at the time, which was really bad timing and I didn't want to delay the whole thing because I knew he was anxious to get out on the road. So I suggested that they use another drummer. So the album could carry on and be done because Ripper was flying over to do his vocals and so on and so forth. And luckily he managed to do that before the lockdown came in and travel between America and the UK became rather a no-no. So I thought I'd just got a nasty sprain but it turned out to be, after we had an x-ray, turned out to like a little hairline fracture. So it took quite a few months to heal properly and I'm sort of more or less back to full fitness again. So that was quite some time ago, obviously. And then of course the COVID thing happened which screwed everything up, not only for the plans that we had to go on tour but everybody, the whole music industry, the West End shows, you know, it's devastated the musicians' livelihoods, the world crews, the whole, you know, lighting people, everyone connected to live music entertainment. It's just, you know, everybody knows it's been a total disaster. So I spoke to KK recently and he tells me it's unlikely that there'll be any shows until 2022, which is next year. So nothing's going to happen for some time, you know. He's asked me if I would still like to be involved and I said, yeah, yeah, how are we going to work that out? And so there may be some, maybe something we can work out where I do like a guest spot or something. But as I said, no actual tour dates have been announced. And so everything's in that sort of uncertain stage at the moment because nobody knows how this pandemic is going to work out. I mean, the big problem that bands have when it comes to touring, if they're planning to do a world tour, is that, like for instance, in this country in the UK, we seem to have at the moment anyway, with the rollout of the vaccines, quite a large percentage of the population have not been vaccinated. And they are planning to open up live music venues again from the 21st of June. Wow. Now, the government here are being very cautious because we've had, you know, two, three, maybe three lockdowns already. And it's put a lot of people out of work and not just in music, but everything. A lot of businesses have folded. So that now that the vaccines are out and everyone's been, that's been offered it, has had it, I've had it, had two shots of the Pfizer vaccine and had no, no bad reactions to it at all. A lot of people are worried about taking it. I think crazy if you don't, but it allows people to get back into, you know, social settings again, such as we have to have at live concerts. So then, unfortunately, this new Indian variant comes along. And you know, our government was far too slow to, when the scenes of what was happening in India currently, people, you know, dropping like flies away with this new, new variant what they call a, I think a double mutant variant is supposed to be even credibly more infectious than the previous ones, the previous variant variants. So that is now in the UK, unfortunately, they didn't ban travel to India and back early enough. So it managed to find its way in, you know, people traveling back and forth. And at the moment, it's still contained and they're doing everything they can to make sure it doesn't spread. But I think younger people are more likely to get it if they're not vaccinated. So the big thing that's going to screw everybody's plans up again is a mutant version of this COVID-19 virus comes along that can, in fact, people who've been in vaccinated vaccinated, you know, but one that can find its way around the vaccine. And if that happens, we're all back to square one again. Yeah, just when we saw the light of day, we might be back to square one. So yeah, until, well, I mean, we do have the vaccine, but because this virus is very clever and keeps changing the little protein spikes on it. The immune system may not recognize the latest version that comes along. And so it might be able to, in fact, people, even though they have antibodies, you know, because the original vaccine that we're all getting was based on the very first version of the virus, you know. So these new mutant versions will look different and the immune immune immune system may not be able to recognize these new versions. But the only way we can find out the answer to that is wait and see, you know, see how, you know, at the moment, the scientists and medical experts are analyzing this new double mutant version that's come from India and trying to work out how just how more infectious it is and whether it can find its way around the vaccine or not. And it's a bit too early at this stage to until they've done all their investigations to see what the situation is. So if it turns out that it it spreads regardless of the vaccination program, then that could screw up the life venues being opened on the 24th of June. So who knows? This is what the kind of world we're living in these days, isn't it? You know, there's so much uncertainty. You can't say we're going to be doing this on this day because who knows what's going to happen between you and them. So you were saying because, you know, we're trying to piece. Jimmy had some interviews with Casey, some excellent interviews. We've read his book. We've got Rob's book and we're just trying to fit it together. You said like he got a little bit interested. He did a one off show and then it kind of spiked, spiked, you know, this kind of interest and maybe a tour, maybe even an album. You know, what was the general attitude you think with KK? He really want to go out full throttle or, you know, he just, you know, got sick of being at home, wanted to get back into it. I think I, I, I, I first sort of established contact with KK back in 2017. And at that point, he was still quite heavily, you know, involved with this golf course thing that he was, you know, working on. And I did suggest to him then, you know, I said we should do something together, you know, and I think because of all, you know, because of all the commitments he had with that at the time, he wasn't focusing on music then. But that's all changed now. So and I think uh, uh, Judas Priest were trying to do a major tour to celebrate 50 years of, of the, you know, being together. And it would have been good if they'd, if they'd invited KK to take part in that. I thought that would have been. And you as well. And you as well. Yeah, well, and Ripper, I don't know, but sure. But, um, uh, it was for a long time, hemming and high. And it was, it was, it was just going to happen. Is it not going to happen? And it turns out that they, they, they, they, they didn't want to, they didn't want to do that. So, um, I think that, you know, after that show, we did together. And I think he did a guest spot in at Bloodstock as well. With Ross, the boss. I think I reconnected him with his fans and, and, and, and, uh, you know, gave him, uh, the, the, uh, the urge to do, to get out and play again. Uh, so, uh, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure we'll be out there doing it at some point. It's just when, you know, I don't, I have no information regarding tour dates or anything like that, because, um, you know, with the, with the, with, with the pandemic, normally when a management sets up a tour, it's a world tour. And so you're going to do so many dates in this country and fly to the next one, do so many dates there and off to the next one. There's so many, and so on and so forth. But the problem is that the situation is different than every country regarding the, the, um, you know, the, and so, uh, I mean, for instance, Brazil, there was a new variant of the, of the virus that came from business in Brazil. And that was one of the countries where we were supposed to go to do some shows in Rio. Uh, and, um, so, and, and, you know, the flights have been totally disrupted. World, world travel, you know, is non-existent, you know, I live quite near, I mean, I live in London and I live quite close to Heathrow Airport. And you'd always hear planes flying overhead, you know, because I'm quite close to the airport. There's all, all, every few minutes is another plane going over. And suddenly that just stopped. No, no, no flights. Yeah. You know, and, uh, It's been better at night. Yeah. You know, um, the, the, the airline industry has been devastated. And, uh, you know, they've had to lay off a lot of staff. And even now, I mean, uh, you know, today, the 17th, our government is trying to unlock down and gradual stages this time, because they don't want to take it all at once and then end up having to go back into lockdown again, because the virus, the surges takes off again, you know, which is a sensible way to do it. I think, uh, so, um, uh, they've, the, today is quite an important day because the pubs have opened again. Hallelujah. Yeah. I haven't had a chance to get out there yet. Cause you're too busy doing the second most important thing is being on the show. Absolutely. Yeah. But I'll, I'll be in the pub at some point this week. No, they've had a hard, they've had a hard time, you know. Yeah. And, um, a lot of them probably won't survive. You know, and if we have to go, you know, if things go pear shaped a second time and, and, you know, some version of this virus causes major problems again, um, then, uh, and we go into, we have to go into yet another lockdown. You know, how can businesses survive that? It's, it's, it's killing, killing everybody's business, you know, Let's, let me ask you this cause everybody's dying to know. And I mean, and this is how I started it off. I mean, are you officially in the band like the K case priest or you're kind of, or you're not certain? Well, um, I have my own bands, right? Yeah, that we know. Yes. Yeah. And, and Ripper has his own thing, you know, he does this three tremors thing and he's got his fingers in a lot of pies. He's always, he's always gigging. He's always busy. Um, and I've actually got, um, a few selective gigs lined up with my own band. Yeah. From, uh, the end of July, beginning of August, summer around there, uh, because there are, there are some venues that are trying to operate with, um, restricting the number of people and social distancing and all that, you know, but that means that the venues operating at a tiny fraction of its full capacity. So they can't, they can't make a, the same, the same mind. It can't do the same business that, that they would normally do. And, uh, I didn't want to go out and do shows to a half, half full venue, you know, right? Um, so if, if things are not, um, disrupted by some new variant of this virus between now and the 21st of June, then, uh, I'll be, I'll be out doing it again with my own band, uh, around the end of July, August, something like that. But I'm only, only accepting a handful of, uh, shows, you know, is that in the UK? Only in the UK, not only in the UK. Yeah. Cause I don't know what the situation, I know, I know the situation has been quite bad in France. You know, it keeps it simpler. Yeah, exactly. At least you know what you're dealing with in the restrictions in that country. It goes back to what I said earlier, the situation is different than each country. So you can only accept, uh, you know, work in the, in the country that you know, uh, is relatively safe from that you can play to a decent size audience. So let's talk a little bit about your band. So, so are you, uh, it's strictly Judas Priest, uh, covers, or do you have your own material or? Um, well, you know, I've worked with so many different musicians over the years. And, um, this, quite, quite often when I'm working with, in other situations, and somebody finds out who's on drums and come up and they say, Oh, I'll play some pretty stuff. You know, and of course the guys I'm working with, you know, having learned any of that stuff, they don't know any of it, you know. And then there's, uh, every year there's, uh, there's, uh, a thing that happens in Great Yarmouth, which is in Norfolk, uh, called Legends of Rock. And I have four day, at least a four day event that is, they have lots of different bands on. I was contacted and asked to do that. And what I do, um, the, the priest material from my era in the band. And I was, I thought that that could be good, you know, um, I hadn't played those songs in many years, you know. And, uh, so I contacted some of the musicians that I thought guitar players, first thought, that I thought would be able to handle that and, and, and pull it off. So I have a couple of really good guitar players. So I'm very happy with, uh, I had a bass player and a singer and, um, we did, we got together and we rehearsed all the material from my era. I didn't want to go beyond that, you know, uh, so it's 70s priest, you know, uh, because I joined the band, uh, when the band signed up to CBS Columbia, uh, their first album, which was Sin After Sin. Now I didn't play on Sin After Sin, that was Simon Phillips. Uh, but I did the tour. I joined to do the tour to promote the sale of that, sales of that album. So, um, I played that stuff live. And then, of course, we went into the studio together and we did the Stain Class album and, uh, I co-wrote Beyond the Realms of Death. Yeah, yeah, you know, it, it, it prepared for this interview. That's what I, that's what I, uh, read. That's what it, you know, that's the song off of this album almost, right? So that was a huge, huge deal. Well, thank you for that. Yeah. Um, actually it wasn't, we had rehearsed all the other songs, all the other material. And, um, because at the time, you know, the guys were still living up around the Birmingham area. Um, I was the only guy living in London, so I had to travel up to Birmingham, sorry, for rehearsals. And, um, when I got home, I thought, all the songs are very uptempo. And I thought it'd be nice somewhere in the set to take it down a bit, right, and, uh, have some, something that starts off with acoustic guitars and a ballad, basically, that moves into a heavy riff section. So I made a little home demo of what turned out to be Beyond the Realms. And when I went back, back up to, um, Birmingham to rehearse, I played a tape to them of that song. And, um, I thought it was better for, Rob to, to write the lyrics, because he has a particular style of writing songs, and I wanted to maintain that continuity with the rest of the material. So Rob went away, came back, said, I've got, I've got, I've got the title Beyond the Realms of Death. So, um, so that's, that's how it came about. You also, uh, did, did, you opened up for Rush on the Sit After Sin tour? Sorry to say again. You opened up for Rush, Rush, the Band Rush. Oh yeah, yeah. On the Sit After Sin. You opened up for Rush, Led Zeppelin. Was it, was that, that tour? Uh, that was, that was, that was on the first tour we did of America. We opened for Zeppelin, uh, at, um, Oakland Coliseum. Yeah. When they had that big, um, Stonehenge State set, yeah, you know, Allen's favorite. Yeah. Well, every time I think of it now, I think of, uh, Spinal Top, you know, yeah, right. Or Black Sabbath born again. Yeah. Yeah, I'm done. What was it? What was it like opening up for Rush? Well, you know, I'd never, I wasn't familiar with Rush's material that time. I was a, I was an earlier, earlier part of their career and we had been on first, so I was standing at the start of the stage watching a show and I only caught, I only caught a short, uh, portion of the show, but, um, I noticed all these big banks of martial lamps, martial stacks, um, and, um, that they had on stage, which looked very impressive, you know, but when I stood at the side of the stage, I could see that behind the martial stacks, there was a, a Fender Twin Reverb mic'd up. That's what the guitar player, yeah. Alex Lifeson. So the guitar player was actually playing through, um, uh, you know, a Fender Twin Reverb, but all the martial stacks were there just for show. That was a lot of cases back then. What about the drumming? You, Neil Perts, playing there, you know, what'd you, what'd you think about the drumming? Oh yeah, great. It was so sad to hear the news of them passing away, you know, but it was a fantastic drummer, you know, uh, very well respected. What can I say? You know, one of the best. Yeah. So when you came into the band, you know, they had gone through different drummers and Simon Phillips plays on Sin After Sin. Did you want to, you know, you just stuck with your, your style or you said, you know, you wanted to do a little bit more. Simon was doing or you, there was any, uh, you know, how did you just go about, uh, you know, with the music or, or that tour even? Did you, you find you just made your own style or you had to copy somebody else? Um, well, I had to learn the arrangements of the songs. That wasn't going to change. But every drummer is different. Right. You know, um, as it happens, Simon and I have very much the same, uh, musical influences. Uh, the way that Simon plays, he, he uses his left hand on the hi-hat as opposed to crossing over. Oh, okay. And two people that we were both into, um, back in the 70s was Billy Cobham with the Mahavish New Orchestra who played that way. It still does. And, uh, Lonnie White with, um, Chick Korea's Return to Forever. So there were like jazz fusion bands with rock influences as well. But incredible players and, you know, Simon's quite into that jazz fusion type of playing that which he does with his own band. And, um, so our heads were quite similar in that, you know, in what we listened to. I was into, when I started off playing, I was, you know, I agree up listening to, uh, Bonzo, you know, John Bonham with, with Zeppelin and, um, Ian Pace, Duba D. Purple, uh, who else? In the rock field. Uh, Cozy was a, I liked Cozy's playing as well, Cozy Powell. Um, but, but I listened to a whole, a whole wide variety of musical genres and got to know players who, who like Steve Gadd. Yeah, amazing. Yeah. Yeah, Harvey Mason, um, and Lenny White and Billy Carbon, people from that jazz and funk sort of things, you know. And I found I could utilize some of those, some of that stuff. Uh, on the metal, on, in the metal stuff I was playing. So there a little doubt, if you listen to this, a few little subtle, subtle elements of those influences that creep in here and there, if you listen to the, the albums that I played on. Uh, I don't think, uh, that was the case with the drummers that followed me. And I wouldn't agree with that, yeah. I mean, Dave Holland was a lot more, uh, just, just laying down the grooves, you know. For fun. Yeah. And Scott is more into the fast bass drum stuff. Yeah. Very, uh, end of the sort of speed sort of things. Right. So they, I mean, they've had quite a lot of drummers when you think about it, because when I, when I joined it already got, uh, gone through three. The first album, Rock or Roller had John Hinch on it. Yeah. Uh, who I just learned sadly passed away at the age of 73. Yeah. And, um, then they had a guy called Alan Moore who played on, um, Sad Wings and Destiny. Then Simon came, me as a session to do the sin after sin. And then I did the next three. And then Dave was there forever and then they got Scott and maintained Scott all these years. Probably, probably the drum has been in the band the most. He is, yeah. Yeah. He's getting a gold watch. You know, there's been different. Here's the bathroom. For the reasons why you left, I mean, there's different stories. There was a money or you, you know, the fashion you went into the leather look or, you know, there was overplaying or like you said, your style didn't kind of fit into where they were going with the music four four. So, so what, what, you know, we read this and all everybody else's version, but what's, what's Lesbink's version for, for leaving freeze? Uh, right. Money or lack of it. Lack of it. Or lack of it. Just probably more precise. I was, I was, excuse me. I was in a different situation than the other guys in the band. I was assigned to the record company. And when I came to the live album on Least in the East, the management company thought I should do it for free. And that album went platinum. I sold all the previous albums and management didn't want to pay me for it. Crazy. Did you get any money, any money at all? I had to, I had to fight and struggle to get anything for it. But obviously that's solid relationships. Yeah. And made it impossible for me to carry on. You're not getting paid. Yeah. Well, so what was the reasoning less for that? Why, why, why wouldn't they want to pay you? I mean, you're in a band, you got three albums, you're not going to do a live one. You, you asked them. I couldn't figure that one out either. Especially when you finally got somebody solidified behind the drums. Finally, you find your guy and crazy. Well, the wacky world of rock and roll, Alan. The wacky world of rock and roll. I think, I think they thought, I think the manager thought that as the album was recorded while we were on tour in Japan and I was being paid for the tour, they could use the recordings without paying me for the release of the album. Okay. You know, but it doesn't work like that. As you, as you know, you know, you see, when musicians go into recording studio to make an album or whatever, they, they usually arrange what they're going to get out of it. If they're not signed to the record label, obviously if they're signed to the record label, they're going to make, you know, loyalties off the sale of that album. But my situation was different. And so I, I, I was so like the session guy. And that was normally, I would, I would, I would go in, have a meeting with a management when we were going into a recording studio and I would work out a, a, a deal for payment for, for that album. And it's easy to do that when you're going into a recording studio and you're in England. But we were on tour and I wasn't consulted about any kind of recording while we were touring. So there was no pre-arrangement made for what I was going to, I was going to be remunerated for that. And it was how I found out was I had a a new kit, a new drum kit supplied by Pearl who I was endorsing at the time. And they, they, they delivered the kit to the venue we were playing at. So I had to go down with my drum tech in the afternoon to get it all set up and tune it. It was a little brand new. And while I, while I was doing that, I noticed there was a 24-track mobile studio at the back of the building. And there were engineers bringing cables in and setting extra mics up to record. So the band's then manager was a guy called Mike, Mike Dolan who they got rid of finally, because he was ripping everybody off. Nobody was getting paid. Well, not what they should have been. And he was, he was with us on the tour in Tokyo. And I said to him, I said, Mike, what's happening about the recording, you know, because we haven't discussed making a live record. And he said, oh, don't worry about it, Les. It's only for Sony. It's only for CBS, Sony's sake, you know, he said, if I want to do anything with it, we'll talk about it later, you know. So we flew straight from Japan to the USA and we toured the USA for about three months, came back to England and we had a two-week tour of the UK. And we did a show, I think it was probably the last show I did with them, a Dublin stadium, a stadium in Dublin, along with a status quo and a few other bands, I can't remember now. And then we took a break and, you know, everybody was burned out after all that. Well, you know, travel. We didn't actually vary the set much and we're playing the same set pretty much every night and that can get a bit tedious after a while, you know, getting some fresh stuff into the set. But I was the only member of the band that worked with other musicians outside of the band. So when we came off the road, I'd bring up all my session contacts in London, let them know that I'm around and available and I would go, I would go around, I'd be working in the studios in other situations with other musicians until, until a band wanted to either rehearse and make a new album or go back on tour. So, this is when I got a call from their manager, Mike Dolan, and he said, can you come onto the office? And we want to discuss the band's next move, you know, so I said, sure. So I, I came in and he said to me, I said, the bands down at Ringo's studio, Starling Studios in Ascot, listening to the tapes from Japan, the live stuff from Japan. And he said, we've had a lot of requests, he said from fans, asking when, when is the band going to put out a live album? And he said, we think this could be it. But this was the first time they worked with Tom Allam, as producer. He got old Tom, yeah. Oh, I never met the guy, because I was never invited to the studio to have a listen, which I thought was a bit weird. They didn't want you to know about it. Yeah. So I began to get the, them and us situation, you know, I felt I was being treated quite differently because, you know, and so I said, well, I said, well, that's fine. Just pay me the same as you paid me for the last album. And he said to me, he said, you know, there's the bands in debt at the moment. He said, we think it'd be a nice gesture on your behalf if you were to waive your fees on this occasion. Did he waive his? That was my response. I said, are you going to waive your management? Oh, no, no, they never waive their fees. No. Can you tell me how I'm going to pay my bills if I'm not making any money? You know, incredible. We're discussing you last. We're not discussing me. That's what he's saying. You know, this, this was the 70s. And it was, Yeah. It was very common, very common for, very common for ripoff cutthroat managers that took advantage of naive young musicians who were more into being rock stars and making music and into their music than they were business people. You know, so they used that. To, there are naiveness to exploit that and rip them off. I mean, Don Arden. Oh, we don't want to go there. You know, notorious, notorious. So, so, so in other words, you're on the, you're on staying glass and, and, and you got your fee, you know, you got your, your session fee, right? Next album, you got your session fee, but when the live album comes out, there was no session fee or you did manage to get it at the end. Well, you know, I would go in and arrange payment with the management before we actually went into the studio. Because I saw, you know, so I would spend as much time in the studio as was necessary to get the results that we wanted to get. And a lot of the time we were in I mean, the, the staying class album we recorded at Chippin Norton Studios, which is up in the Cotswolds. It was a little village, a little company village up there and this building was, was converted into a studio and it had living accommodation. So we, we actually stayed there while we were working on the album. And whereas the follow-up album which was Hellbent for Leather on your side of the pond. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Killing Machine, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was Killing Machine in the UK. It still wouldn't work today. Yeah, yeah. We had to change it in America because of, yeah, it was always, always somebody goes crazy and shoots a lot of people, you know, because of American gun laws. Yeah. And there'd been a big, so many of them crazy at a school and shot a lot of people. It's still happening. Yeah. Just as the album was due for release and so the record company thought that Killing Machine was probably a bit, it was a sensitive title. Yeah, we're not having any of that. Yeah. So, so they changed it and they called it Hellbent for Leather which is one of the other tracks on the album. Are there any other songs from Stain Class and Hellbent for Leather or Killing Machine that you contributed to that sort of you didn't really get your credit for? Well, I think the way people record today is quite different to how they did. Recording studios and recording over the years, if you go back to the 50s and rock and roll with Elvis and Sun Studios and Memphis, they're, you know, everybody's played live in the studio. And everything was mono and stereo. We didn't have multi-track recording and all that developed over the years. I think Sarge and Pepper was only met on a four track. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so you have to keep bouncing tracks down to create more space to add the next thing on. So what we would do when we made those albums was we would go in rehearsal studio. Each member of the band would present ideas for songs. I mean, for instance, Exciter on Stain Class as a drum intro. And that came about from me just messing about a soundtrack. You know, I played something like that just off the top of my head. And Glen Zyrus picked up when he heard it. And he said, oh, let's play that again. Play that again, you know. And then he came in with a little guitar riff, you know. And so that's how some songs develop. You know, just out of a jam. And then you take them away and you develop them later on and ends up on an album. And when we all got together, regardless of who whose song it was or who's initiated it, everybody had their own input to it. But with a lot of bands, you know, not everyone gets credited. I mean, even Lenin and McCartney, you know, sometimes it would be mainly one or the other who wrote the song. But it was credited to both of them. And George Martin, how he took the songs, you know, orchestration and everything, he never got credit for anything. It was always Lenin and McCartney. Well, he was the fifth Beatle, wasn't he? Really? Yeah, for sure. I mean, he played, was it Celeste or something on what sort of track was it? In My Life? In My Life? Joe Manon's song? There's a whole piano thing. I think it was played on a Celeste, which George Martin played. And it's a really nice melodic structure as well. Adds a lot to the song. So I don't think it got credited for it, just a little McCartney song, you know? I guess it was there like, was there any other song other than Beyond the Realms of Death that you kind of put a little more, okay, excited, it's obvious, because there's that drum, you know, the drum intro, right? But is there any other song that you maybe contributed melody-wise or riff-wise that sort of, you put in a little more than, you should have got a little more credit. That you deserved. Well, I never asked for any more credit, because, you know, if somebody comes up with the idea for a song and you throw in maybe a suggestion here and there, it's still their song, you know? And so, and also, I was the new boy in the band back then. And I didn't want to say, well, I'm going to write this and I'm going to write that. And you know, it was Glenn KK and Rob, who were the main writing team in the band. And I was keen to write more stuff, had I been in the band longer, I definitely would have come up with more material. But there has to be space on an album, and if the guys come up with a whole bunch of songs that's going to fill an album, then you've got to find a space for your song on it, and you've got to convince them that it's right for the band. And, you know, that's the other way that artists make money, obviously, is from the publishing rights to their songs. Absolutely. And the publishing rights that I had with Beyond the Realms of Death were ripped off by the management. They make all the money. I don't get a penny for that. So you've never gotten a penny for Beyond the Realms of Death to this day? No. What the heck's going on in this world? Exactly. Now you understand why I left. Okay, so just one question now. Back in the 80s, there was that unfortunate incident with two youths in the United States, and they tried committing suicide, and this song was under question, and you were never called in? No, it wasn't this song. It wasn't Beyond the Realms of Death. No, I thought, oh no, sorry. No, no, no, no. That's right, that's right. It's the other one up. There's a letter on. Are you talking about the court case? Yes, the court case. Yeah, yeah, the court case was... By the two boys who, yeah. While I was out of the band, by the time that hit the headlines. Somebody out there tell me which song it was again. I thought it was that one. I think it was better by you, better than me or something. Yes, it was. Which was actually a spooky truth song. Well, yeah, that's a cover. It's a song. That's the thing. Yeah, because every time we went into the studio to make an album, CBS would... Their A&R people would be looking for a single off the album. And they would make suggestions. What about doing a version of this, you know, this song? Diamonds and Rust. Yeah, well Diamonds and Rust was a Joan Baez song. Yeah, that's right. No one would think of Joan Baez or Judas Priest and it's a completely different style of artist. Nazareth with Joni Mitchell and This Flight Tonight and other... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was Simon played on that one, on the Seven After Seven album. I played it on the live version, at least in the East. But that was one. Then when we did Stay In Class, they put forward the idea of doing better by you or better, you know, that's a pretty good song. So I quite like the song. Everybody quite like the song. So we give it our own treatment. We played, you know, came up with a new arrangement for it and played it in a Judas Priest way and made it our own. And then on the next album, they suggested... Take On The World. The Green Manolishi. Oh, yeah. Peter Green. Peter Green. Amazing. What a greatest version. Oh, my Lord. That's a great version. And when we listened to it, I mean, I always loved Peter Green and so did the rest of the guys in the band. Fantastic guitar player. And I remember going to see him in Belfast, the original Fleetwood Mac, and it was a fantastic show. They're an incredible band live. And whose idea was it for Green Manolishi? Sorry? Whose idea was it to cover the song? Well, that began, I was to say. It was the record company. Oh, it was a record company. Yeah. It was like a Rob said, hey, guys, I got this idea. You know, let's cover Fleetwood Mac. The cover songs that we did. The songs that we did. It was always management. The guys who don't want to pay anybody. They thought, because they were looking for a single and they thought these songs. As far as I know, none of them ever were released as singles. When we did, I'll call it the hell band for the other album. For your part of you. The first single that was released on that album, it wasn't Green Manolishi. It was The Take On The World. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a hit in the UK. And we got on the top, top 10 with that singles charts. And then they took a second one off it, which was Evening Star. That did pretty well too. Two great albums, man. You know, I'm thinking about it. These are like just Rob and the whole band was like far and off in all cylinders. But if you go back and listen to those albums, you know, call me old fashioned. But I prefer the style of the music that they were doing then. To, you know, the later stuff that got more The painkiller you're talking about? Yeah. The painkiller is a great track. Don't get me wrong. It is. Yeah. A great drum intro on that, you know. Very excited-ish. Yeah. Well, Scott KK told me he listened to a solo that Scott did on Racer X, which is another one of his bands. And there was something like that in the solo. And he said, play that. Play that as the intro, you know. So anyway, you know, I think if you look at the 80s period with Dave Holland and the album they recorded with him A Brish Steel, Scrooge of Revengeance. Yeah, there were several singles taken off that album, which were hits for them. Yep. Breaking the law, living after midnight. Straight ahead rock, you know, not speed metal. No double bass drums at a million miles an hour, you know. But quite commercial, there were hit records for the band, you know. Not all of them did very well. I know Martin Popoff will agree with you. I mean, he was a, you know, he's written about it. He's a huge Judas Priest fan in your era and before. And then he, what he calls kind of like the dumbing down to hit the U.S. market where British steel onwards, you know. Well, the 70s period was before MTV. Right, big time. And so the emphasis was on getting American FM radio play. And it was kind of strange for us because when we arrived in America, we were playing tracks like Exciter and all that kind of stuff. And we were on the same show as Aureo Speedwagon, Fogat. There you go. And all these other, so we stood out like a sore thumb, you know. But these bands, you know, four on there, they were very commercially successful bands and got a lot of American FM radio. Play. And so that was very important to get in your music herd in throughout the states because America is such a vast country. You can be really big in one state and totally unknown in another. And one of the first areas that we took to Judas Priest right away was San, Texas, San Antonio. San Antonio, yeah, huge, huge. We were doing a tour there with a very, very hardworking band. I mean, there are some bands that stick the first album out. I'm thinking of San Antonio, I would say Saxon. No, Death Leopard. Death Leopard. Oh, yes, yes. Their first albums, just America loved them straight away. Hello, America. And then we were touring with UFO and UFO, we went up to there. They were living up in Laurel Canyon and LA. And those guys were constantly, I mean, they were a British band who'd moved and relocated to America. And they were always on tour, very hardworking bands. But their success came gradually album by album, bit by bit. Whereas on the same with Priest, really, I mean, they had to work hard on it to get where they wanted to be. Whereas Death Leopard comes out. The first album goes, you know, and Mot Line producing. Yeah, young guys look good, you know, it's a little different. TV era, yeah. Exactly, you know, Shania Twain is another one she produces her. And I think Brian Adams, Brian Adams, they can always tell his production. But he knows how to make hit records. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of like, so there's a chat going on here too, less and people are asking all kinds of questions and we're just, I don't want to ignore everybody. But one person asks, I'll throw out some questions at you. Okay. And you could just answer if you want to answer if you don't want. Sure. What do you think about the new KK song? I guess, you know, since you didn't participate, what do you think about it? It's got that painkiller vibe. What's your thoughts? Well, I've only seen it on an iPhone. Hellfire put the video out on an iPhone. And it's very, you know, it's very all guns blazing, you know. The video is very impressive. Lots of effects and stuff. I haven't heard the entire album and I don't think it's due for release until... But it's okay. We won't push you for, you know, sound, you know, what it sounds like, but they haven't let you heard a little sneak peek of it or anything? Early on, there were some early sort of just rough. Yeah, that was sent to me, but I didn't really get too heavily involved because I knew I wasn't going to be playing on it, you know. Oh, okay. I'm a lazy bastard, so if I'm not going to be actually playing on it, but... If I'm not getting paid. Yeah, so yeah, I've only really just probably what you've seen of it is what I've seen of it, you know. So did you like it or your impressions? How's that? Yeah, I liked it, yeah. And I wish them every success with it, you know. For sure. I spoke to Kai-Kai earlier on this year when they were just putting that video together and it was very difficult because, you know, Rippers in America and so there were no flights to the UK hard getting, you know, restrictions on foreign travel because of COVID. And so getting everybody together, it was always a problem. So I'm not sure how they got around all that. Maybe they all contributed to whatever part of the world they were in and sort of stuck it together, you know. But, yeah, I mean, it opens up with Kai-Kai's trademark, Whammy Bar. I love the song, I love the song, actually. Yeah, that opened up something similar to that opened up The Center, you know, which is one of the tracks that I like playing, yeah. And I do that with my own band, actually, The Center. Yeah, great. It was also on Unleashed from the East. Yeah. So that song is from sort of my era with the band. Did they redo any of the drums on Unleashed East? Because, okay, the vocals we know it's common knowledge that they had to redo the vocals, but was any drums or any other other songs rebuilt from scratch? I hear this comment. There's a lot of rubbish that's spoken about. I think it was Unleashed in the studio. Yes. Which is complete bollocks, you know. As I say, the drums are entirely live. And I never even sat foot in the studio. Because they weren't paying you. So my part I can clarify is totally live, you know. So we know we've confirmed Les Binks was recorded live, yes. Absolutely, yeah. And I think and also we see nowadays, when that album was released in the 70s, we didn't have quantizing and stuff that we, you know, with technology that's around digital technology and computers and so on, you can control everything more in a studio. You have auto-tune. So if a vocalist sings sharp or flat, you can bring it back up. Retune the voice digitally, you know. It's not, it's a cheating really, you know. But, you know, a lot of these boy bands and girl bands, a half of them can barely sing, you know. But they get away with it in the studio because of these that can make them sound better than they are. But the Unleashed in the East album was entirely live. I think when we did the shows, Rob had a problem. He had a cold or something affecting his throat. That's what I read, yeah. Yeah. And so when they went into the studio, I mean, no matter which band you think of, that's had a live album, think of then Lizzie. Live in the East. Yeah. They don't just, they don't just, oh yeah, just stick it out, you know. They wanted to sound well mixed and if anything needs an effect on it, you know, a vocal effect or a bit more reverb on that or a bit more echo. We're not kissed though. Kiss, it's all live here. All their albums are right live. There's no mixing there. There's no studio. Yeah, so. Kiss is always live. Yeah. So obviously with the Unleashed in the East album, I think they redid some of the vocals, probably not all of them. But anything that Rob felt wasn't, his voice wasn't on top form on, he would have redone in the studio. But I would say the majority of it is totally live. Okay, good. You know, Les, when me and Alan do these shows, it's more of a sit back, relax, talk casual, you know, we're very, and we're not, we're not, we'll make little jokes. We're just joking around, you know, we're just having, we're trying to make it feel comfortable. It's funny because Live and Dangerous too was, Brian Downey's tracks, they said that's, you know, there's rumors that that's the only thing that's really kept live. And you're saying your tracks are always, is definitely live as well. So. Yeah. All I'm saying is, with any live album, the band always polishes it up in the studio. You know, they want to get the best out of that live performance. And so, you know, they'll just polish it up in the studio. And I'm sure there's a good mix and everything can be heard properly. And so, so they're getting the best out of it. Right. Well, I think it's getting late there. And I think we've weighed, took up a lot more time than we originally planned, but it was a great interview. And we thank you a lot, Les, for joining us. And hopefully, like you said, you'll be out touring in June, if everything goes according to plan. Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed. So Les Binks, the Les Binks priesthood, which is basically covering the three albums you played on with Judas Priest. Hopefully we get to see you with KK's Priest, some special guests. I mean, we'll see how that comes about, right? Well, that's what KK suggested to me, you know. Okay. And that'd be easier to do in the UK, obviously, because we all live in the UK, you know. I was looking forward to seeing you. I was looking forward to seeing you with KK's Priest. That's why I'm just here to look. I'm a fan, so I was looking forward to seeing you. That's all. I was looking forward to seeing me, too. Well, seeing me now, that's the main thing. There you go. There you go. Now you're catching on to these shows. Les, it was a pleasure. Yes. Thank you so much for joining us, and we'll do it again soon. At any time. All the best. Stay well.