 Okay. We're recording. Hello, everyone. It is Thursday, June 15th. This is a regular schedule TSO meeting. Thank you for joining us. This meeting is being recorded. This meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting. They do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public and adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. So I am going to call on everyone just to double check that we can be heard and so in our present. Andy. Yes, I'm here. I'm here. President. What do you know? I'm here. Kelly. Here. And go for. Paul. We see you, Paul. Hi, Paul. And go for. Can you hear us? Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Mandy is in the attendee group. Okay. So if you. When you get to there. You need to bring her in. Wonderful. Okay. So with that, so we're going to go right into public comment. If we have any members, we have three attendees, Darcy, Mandy, Joe and Tracy Zafran. Would anyone like to make a public comment? If so, please raise your hand now. Okay. I see. Tracy. Welcome, Tracy. And Tracy, the floor is yours for up three minutes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to comment. I will try to be brief. So I'm here. Just to speak about the proposed street lights policy. I wasn't able to attend the last meeting. But I did see the recording and heard that I was mentioned a number of times and I can stay later in the meeting. If that would be helpful. So I think I just, I mean, I did send comments on. The latest version of the policy that I had seen to the council sponsors. I didn't send them to the full committee, but I'm happy to share them now. So, so one of the things is, I mean, I mean, I did send comments to the council. I did send comments to the council. I mean, I was proposed policy. Initially came before the council and then to the TSO last summer. And since it didn't, I mean, my focus on it. And my areas of concern and the things that I've commented on have always been about the transportation safety. Which seemed a little bit minimized in the original policy. Approach. And also just minimizing the risk computing potential yet unintended risks. I think that's been really helpful. And I've also had to focus on the perceptions of safety. Just because those perceptions of safety, transportation safety will impact people's choices about, you know, if they leave their homes at night, if they feel comfortable walking or biking after dark and so on. And so one of the things I mentioned to the council sponsors is that TAC met last week. And we talked a little bit about our recommendation that we made about having street lights at bus stops and crosswalks. And we walked it back a little bit. Because thinking about it, we do think that for bus stops and for crosswalks that are used at night, that it is important to have some lighting, but that lighting does not necessarily have to be a street lighting. So. And in fact, it seemed that the proposal to encourage. To have street lighting at all PBTA bus stops throughout town might be overkill because not all of those bus stops are served at night. I mean, or have routes at night and all of them have many people. And I think many of them don't have lighting now, like don't have street lighting now, but they could have some illumination that would help. Both with customer transit riders using the buses and also just with safety. And so most of my comments are related to just the dimming of lights. And so one of the things is, and I know that, you know, there's been some back and forth about it. One of the things is with the idea with the village centers. So I do support dimming of lights. I mean, I'm not a fan of light pollution either. I'm not a fan of, you know, campuses around me that stay lit all night long. I'm not a fan of ever sourced light poles that put the lights up, you know, way beyond the roadway and where they don't actually do much good for anybody and they just spread the light more. And so, but I think it's just really important to be intentional when we make decisions about the lighting and making sure that we don't have any unintended consequences. So one thing with the dimming. So one of the things I heard last time is that I had mentioned, I think Shalini brought forth the idea of keeping the streetlight lighting up in the village centers until at least midnight because the policy has written says 11 or within one hour after the end of closing time of the last bar live music menu. And that the one of the comments, some of the comments that were made during the last TSO meeting will said, said that, you know, that, that the TSO members had looked and the sponsors had looked at the bus schedules and so on. And so actually the lights were probably not going to be dimmed or till two or three AM. At certain, for certain days. So the thing is that it's not, if somebody just read. Excuse me, Tracy. Yes. Just would you mind, because we do have a pack agenda. How about this? We're going to go into the waste hauler, but that's going to come. And then as we get back to the street lights, we can, you know, welcome you for an additional three minute comment. Does that work? All right. That would be fine. Thank you. Okay. Okay. So we are going to. Move on to our proposed amendments to general bylaw. Our refuse collection. The sponsor Shawnee will not be here with us this evening. So I'm going to. Refer to Paul. If you have, you know, any, anything else, you know, to add or, or lead us through the latest. I think go for it actually is. Go for it. Update us on where we are with the RFI. If you're still here, go for it. Very. All right. Guilford, the floor is yours. Oh, sorry. Oops. Thank you. I was supposed to be done with the update of my draft this week. We had a couple issues at the wastewater plant, which kind of took a lot of my time. So I am halfway through that. RFI should be done probably. By Monday or Tuesday next week. So that's where I am. And I will have that available for you guys to review there. That's basically the update. There's lots of conflicting comments being set around here. And I'm really just writing this together information to put together how we would do a one to put together a cost estimate based on the information we get back. So you can see a rough preliminary cost about this may cost us. And then to decide who I move forward with an RFP. So that's how I'm approaching this. Just so you know. And that's if you have any questions you can ask. Okay. Were there any. Any members of questions? Andy, please go ahead. Yeah, thank you, Guilford. And I'm sorry that you had such a difficult day. I mean, I think we all kept us informed about it. And I thought about you today and Amy and realizing how tough it was on you guys. The questions from the RFI. I assume that. It would give us some indication of. What kinds of questions that we would be asking in the RFI. And I think that the intent that. The committee is going to be able to look at the. Look at them and see if they coincide with. The goals that we have and. Explore those, those options. I guess how is there. Do you have any more specificity about. How the committee might be engaging in the sponsors might be engaging in the. RFI. The questions do revolve around many things you've talked about. Pays you throw how. How would a vendor set up pay you to throw if they're vendors who actually do pay as you throw and then. Kind of asking general questions about where they do it and. How much they're charging in those areas or just even if they don't tell us how much they're charging is where they're doing it more. Where they did it recently. The other big question. Is composting everyone has been asking about how in curbside composting, there will be some. Request for information on whether the vendors that are in the area are doing curbside composting, whether they could expand to curbside composting. And then there's a lot of questions about if we did this, I don't see the town, the town wanting to require this rule immediately for the entire town. I'm kind of have broken the town up in the four different categories. There's the university. There's businesses. There's large apartment complexes and condominium. Associations. And then there's small duplexes and single-family residences, which actually makes up about. 4,500 units. In town, there's almost a total of. There's about 80. 8,000, 9,000 parcels in town, which actually includes undeveloped land too. So the goal is to concentrate on that large group. About 4,500 people and how we would serve them first. And that's kind of how I'm also. Directing the RFI is not that we're going to take over. We're not going to implement this to me or for the whole town. We're going to implement stages and how. A vendor would think that would work or if they truly would say, you should just bite the whole apple and do everything at once. So that's kind of another. Those are the three areas are the main questions about the RFI. There's a couple other areas I've asked about too, but. Page your throw. How would you, how do you implement page? You throw, do you do page? You throw groups that composting? How do you do it? How do you implement it? And then how phase in some type of service like this to the whole town. And then there's a couple of smaller questions, which are just. Incidentally, I guess that's what I would call them. Yeah. I guess the one thought that I have and the reason I was asking about this is. That I'm always a little bit nervous about using the term pays you throw because it. Can be taken to imply. A method of doing something as opposed to a goal of doing something. Because the goal is to. Encourage people to reduce the amount of trash that's being picked up. That is going to go. To a regular landfill or whatever disposal method is being used. And. That we want to encourage decrease in that. By making it economically. Giving an economical reward. For example, if you have a lot of people with lower bills. If they have less, but it's not, you know, pays you throw is out of that term that comes out of. Bags. And. It's not necessarily. What we're talking about because it's really pay is paid for the amount you throw. The amount you dispose of. I think is the more accurate. Description of the goal and it gives. A little bit more breadth to. What different vendors may say is how they would achieve that goal. So that's one theme that. I'm looking at very closely. And. You know, I think composting has been in continues to be of strong interest because it is another way. Of reducing trash and reducing trash. That. Causes. Methane. Leakage from landfills. So. Those are the things we're thinking about the other, the last thing that I was. I just wanted to mention in this. The question. The question had arisen when. We've talked about this more recently about. Whether there are advantages to. Allowing. Or. Seeing if there's interest from the vendors in every other week trash pickup. We're going to reduce the amount that people put in. And. And we're going to also try and reduce. Control the cost that we're charging. To people who are subscribing to the service. It's possible to do. That the South Hadley's approach of every other week. Is the correct approach. And. So we don't know how that fits into the RFI process. So those were the thoughts that I had had about it. Then I have one other topic I want to talk to later, but it's not necessarily an RFI process. Okay. Did you want to. I do talk. Thank you're frozen. Oh, no, I just stopped. I'm sorry. You started talking and I stopped. I do talk a little bit about the. The cycle pickup, the frequency of pickup in the RFI as well. I'm not really sure we're going to. See, I'm not really sure by weekly can work for us, especially during school year. It might be something that could be done in the summer, but then again, then there's may not want to do it that way either. So. I also have a section that talks about what we affectionately call bailout, which is. When the college students leave twice a year, and we have a lot of trash. That's in the RFI as well. I had a question. You mentioned that there was a lot of conflicting information. I mean, I'm not sure if you wanted to elaborate on that and or is there anything that the sponsors or us as a committee. Could do to help clarify. Um, Not at this moment. I mean, we've decided to do the RFI. I think I'm just playing together as much many questions as I can to ask. I think the biggest question is, is what do we think the final number is going to be to actually provide this service? Um, because that has to be what's approved is that we have approved that as a budget. As a budget number somewhere in the process. Andy, did you, you mentioned you had something else too. Yeah, the other thing that I was just going to mention, um, when you were at the finance committee meeting in the middle of May presenting, there's mostly about the, uh, obviously the budgets for your department and for the enterprise funds. And, uh, That's what we're really focusing on plus the capital for your department came up in discussion. But one thing that you had mentioned briefly and, uh, I responded to the real quick response, but then dropped it because it was irrelevant to the purpose of the meeting, which was, um, whether the current recycle center, um, at the old, uh, The old landfill, but not the old old landfill, um, whether that's going to continue in operation for an alternative for people who don't want to pay a higher price to have home pickup. And you had indicated that you had been not assuming that. And, uh, I don't know that it's a conversation we need to have today. But I think the committee ought to be talking about that because I think that we have, uh, To, um, At least observe that there's a large public interest, uh, from current users, uh, Maintaining that option. And I don't know what year, why, um, What you're thinking was about why it was not advisable. To continue to offer that alternative. Well, originally we thought that you're going to have curbside. We're going to have a company is doing curbside throughout the town when I would anybody want to take a Saturday to bring their crash to the transfer station. And we were thinking that, that transportation would change in how it operates. Um, but then again, we started looking at what we actually take at the transfer station. And to tell the truth, even if the third of the customers want to bring their ways to the transfer station and charge a lesser rate, um, would that's the biggest commodity we take at the transfer station. So we originally thought we might have to be changed, but it's going to have to stay open. Um, it's going to have to stay open for other customers that we have who would not be utilizing the curbside pickup. If we go, if we don't do it, tell them why immediately. Um, a lot of the rental properties use the transfer station for the affectionately known bailout period where they bring a lot of trash that's left that other haulers can't take. We get a lot of mattresses. We get a lot of air conditioners. We get a lot of appliances. Um, at the end of the school years, when people are moving out, things are being changed or up. So the transfer station is going to have to stay open. Um, and even, even then, um, But we don't, we don't see why there would be such a, we don't see where I, and it'd be that many residents actually using it, except for people who have these special, special needs. But all of the services would have to stay open just for that group that have special needs. So it would stay open. And that was something we thought differently before. And that's kind of what I was trying to explain her in finance committee. And if I said it differently, then I apologize. No, I don't. It was a question of. Is that it wasn't the purpose of our, of that meeting. So, um, You know, your comment was very brief. And I thought a longer response. I would be, I was certainly interested in, which is why I asked. Because those are the issues. The things that I hadn't, I guess that. I hope that we get a chance to, uh, Have the committee and possibly the, uh, counselor sponsors at least looking at the. RFI. So that we can see that the questions being asked. Are the questions that. We agree or are missing some questions that we'd like that. That we might be interested in. Anna, did you have a question or anything you would like to ask? No, it wasn't, I didn't have a question. I, um, I had a similar comment to what Andy was saying, which is I'd really love to be able to look at the RFI. Um, I know that you took our input into account. I think, um, and I appreciate that. And, um, it would, it would be great if the committee and, and the sponsors could see it, um, at some point before, before it goes out. If that's, if that's acceptable. Um, but no, Andy, Andy covered it. Thank you, Andy. Thank you. Is there anything else that are pulled? Did you have anything that. No. Okay. Well, thank you so much. You're welcome. I'll hang around for the street lights and if you have questions about them too. Yes, please. Yes, please. That would be helpful. Uh, so in the interim, we are moving on to the approval of minutes today. Everyone have a chance to. Take a look. Uh, I move. Oh, sorry. I was going to try to write it. I move we approve the minutes of five 24 and six one. Of TSO. Okay. I'll second. We'll go roll call Andy. Yes. Hi. And I am an odd. So that's. I guess we're unanimous with two apps. Okay. So. That's done and we're moving right on to. Uh, town manager appointments. Paul, you're absolutely on a roll. Would you like to walk us through the conservation commission appointments? Sure. I just have one set of appointments. And this is for the conservation commission. We have a lot more coming your way for next time. So these two appointments are for a three year terms. And we're losing two very strong numbers of the conservation commission. I'm very pleased to report that we have very two strong numbers ready to join. So Jason Dorney is a project manager and a stormwater company. That's actually based in California, but he works remotely from Amherst. Uh, he's involved in his neighborhood association. He's been involved in, uh, stormwater management, uh, professional associations. Um, really, uh, a terrific person who will be a strong addition to the conservation commission. Uh, and the other is Bruce Steadman, who many people may know is the former director of, or maybe currently still of, of the Conway school of landscape architecture. And he's pretty much done everything. He's got lots of different degrees. Um, and, um, Has done a million things in his, in his career. Um, And he's also, um, now sort of winding down his professional life, but looking to stay involved in the community, which we're really pleased by. So two very strong additions to the conservation commission. Great. I want to make sure there aren't any questions before I jump in with my. And do you have a question. Or a comment. I love the appointments. No, I do not. I think that. They're good. Well, explain choices. Yeah, I'm excited about this. Obviously the conservation commission is near and dear to my heart. And you, these are great folks. And I know that we've got, we've had some really incredible folks on the concom that are cycling off. And so I'm, I was eagerly awaiting who was going to go on. Cause it's a really, we were nervous because of the people cycling off are very, very strong. So good. So good. So yeah, you got, you got too good replacement. So we're fucked out. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Paul, I have a really important question. Did you get a haircut? I got them all cut. Yes, I did. Dad joke. Okay. It looks great. And now I'm ready to. It's father's day. Sorry. Face it. I appreciate that. I moved for the town services and outreach committee to recommend to the town council, the town manager appointments of Jason Dorney and Bruce Steadman to the conservation commission for terms to expire June 30th, 2026. Second. Thank you. Thank you, Andy. And Anna. Okay. So I call it. Thank you. Thank you. I move for the town services and outreach committee to recommend to the town council, the town manager appointments of Jason Dorney and Bruce Steadman to the conservation commission for terms to expire June 30th, 2026. Second. No problem. Thank you, Andy. Thank you. And Anna. Okay. So. I call it. Anna. Hi. Andy. Hi. Hi. So that's unanimous with two apps. All right. So if we would. Please invite Mandy, bring Mandy into the room so we can. Move on to the review and discussion about those street lights. Policy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Wonderful. Okay. So I'm going to again, hand the floor over to Mandy and Anna. Thank you for all your work with us in advance. The floor is yours. Thank you. So Mandy and I have made some updates to the policy based on the feedback that we have been receiving. And that updated version is in your packet for today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I know Shalini had asked it and it's, and she's not here, but I'll say it for the record. I also spoke with the folks at the bid and the chamber regarding the street lights proposal. They did not have concerns about the street lights proposal. Their concerns actually really. Were about lighting in parking lots specifically. And so that was something that I'm going to pass along to Paul. They were not concerned about the levels in the policy as defined. They were not concerned about the number of street lights. They were not sufficiently lit in the evenings. So I'm just sharing that that was the feedback I received from them. And Mandy, do you want to. I'm sorry. I just had an issue where you just muted. Could you just repeat that last part? Yeah. Of course, of course. So basically the takeaway just, I wanted to confirm that I did speak to the bid and the public. I did not. I did not. I did not. I did not comment on the main concerns regarding lighting generally applied to the parking lots on pray street and other downtown areas. And they, they kind of had a separate concern of ensuring that those were, were lit, but they didn't feel that this policy prevented that. They just don't feel that they necessarily currently are. Thank you. Paul, that that's passing that to you. As an FYI right now. I have done my, my duty on that. Do you want. It doesn't matter to me. I can go over the changes and then the one, I think that we would at least recommend based on Tracy's comments. That we received. That's not in here or is in here that we've removed. So we tried to, given that there's so much red in here because of how you do. Changes to documents. So we're going to go ahead and share the changes between the last version you saw in this version are. And so this was done before we received Tracy's comments. So we'll come back to the regional bus stops after we go through what we did change. Right. There's the first one. Which was there was discussion last time about the lighting could be requested virtually everywhere in town. And so there was a request to delete that both from TAC and from the regional bus stops. And so we came up with a couple of TSO members, I believe. And so we came up with new language that we're, we think. Works for deleting the phrase, but gets across what some of our concerns were in just flat out deleting the phrase. So we've provided a potential change there. And so we're going to go ahead and do that. And so we're going to go ahead and do that. And so we're going to do that because such lighting could be requested virtually everywhere in town. We have added or proposed the addition of in order to maintain equity of determinations for all residents. So. We've done that. And then the other change is. A couple pages down, I believe. Page. Five. And this one was about dimming and a lot of questions about dimming right there. And so instead of changing. The language itself. While we recognize when the relamping occurs, if this policy is passed, there may need to be more conversations around dimming. We would really like to keep this language in. But. Given all of the concerns about, well, what are the right streets should all streets be dimmed? What about the timing? All of that? We thought it best to just instead of trying to change the language we've proposed at a phrase. Add the sort of comment and allowance. For the superintendent of public works to the council to. Wave the dimming. And we put for moderate or heavy pedestrian traffic. We could talk about that language. In other areas. To respond to some of Tracy and tax comments about dimming on concerns about pedestrian. Heavy or moderate pedestrian traffic. She's, she's talked about, I think. Not having dimming at all on sort of major arterial or collector roads. The main roads in town or those that have a lot of pedestrians. We were couldn't, we couldn't come up with a way to define that easily. Because thinking about roadways in town, there are some major roadways in town where we probably don't either want or need a lot of lighting at night. And so dimming is absolutely acceptable. And many people probably would say it's okay. And Anna likes to reference Bay Road. I live there. And so it's a, it's a, it's one of our arterial. East West roads, but it does not have a lot of pedestrian traffic late at night. And so it probably could use, and it has a lot of conservation and forest land and all sorts of things like that late at night. Well, it had the lands there all the time, but. And so dimming there is probably appropriate. So taking it, we thought about that blanket approach that we had originally in terms of like just lighting areas and lighting zones. Is problematic for dimming too. So that's why we proposed this language. Yeah. I also want to, I want to jump in here. I think one of the, one of the concerns that are one of the challenges that Mandy and I faced when we were thinking about dimming is that it's really hard to find examples to demonstrate to people what dim lighting, dimmed lighting looks like. And so, you know, we can, we can point to different areas. So, you know, we can point to different places. So Cambridge is one, peperal is another. And to, to give reference points for those two places, peperal peperal just never runs their lights above 30%. Their lights are always dimmed to 30. And Cambridge dims down to 35%. So when we think about the dimming that we're proposing, which was 70, right. And so, you know, what dimmed lighting this in here also allows us to demonstrate and, and do those kind of. Not tests, isn't the right words, but demonstrations, right? Of what dimmed lights may look like. And one of the things that was really interesting. And I mean, I'll pause there, but no, actually, I'll mention it. So one of the things that we, we were referencing in this was the federal highway administration, design criteria for adaptive roadway lighting. And one of the lights was not the, was not statistically significant in terms of the impact on, I don't want to phrase it wrong on accidents that happened on, on, on injury, on injuries that happened. And so it was, they're really interesting guidelines from them in terms of recommending dimming versus what other, other towns have done, which is turning off like every other streetlight, right? So this is one of the ways that adaptive street lighting seems to be going, which is really exciting. But yeah, I'll pause there. And then I would just say, if we can go back up to page one, I haven't talked with Anna about this, but we had proposed based on tax recommendation, the addition of in terms of placement, the regional transit stops. It, it sounds like from the email we received and from Tracy's comment tonight, the attack has sort of rethought that recommendation. So I would certainly agree to removing that proposed addition. So bringing it back to where our certain, our current place standards are, Anna can speak to her thing too, but we had put that in because of tax recommendation. And if they are changing their recommendation based on conversations we've all had, I'm certainly willing to go back to the original language there and remove that bullet point. I am as well. I think that's all. We changed the last thing Andy's concern about the implementation part. So thank you. So that's on page. I left the motion. Page six, I think above that. It's in the blue. It's in the blue. Yeah. Suggested language. Obviously this is only suggested the dates are suggested. Yeah. But the goal of this. And then the motion that the council would be. The council's keeper of the public way or whatever it would be, but the goal is to say, if this passes. The council, the lights that are installed after September 1, 2023 or fully replaced. And so to give you an idea of what my thinking is in fully replaced in this language might need some help, but we had just recently talked about as. As I said, I think that's the goal of this. Keeper of the public way. The duct bank installation on college street that in a couple of years will allow for the removal of the light. The utility poles along college street for a certain amount of light. Those utility poles have lights on them. I believe. And so when the polls go. I'm not sure if we're going to be able to see that. I don't know if we argue whether they're new or not, but we're probably going to want to put some lighting in straight lighting in, but there won't be poles to put them on. And so if those are considered. I would consider those replacement lights. You're buying entirely new fixtures, but there was a light there. So I didn't think it would necessarily fall under the new. Because the lights already been there. You're sort of replacing it, but that's my thinking of what replacement means. Or even if you're replacing the bulb, make sure it complies with this, but that would be September 1, 2023. Anything installed after that is the proposal here. And then 10 years from that date is when all existing street lights that existed before September 1 would have to come into compliance with the policy. I know it's a long timeframe. I don't, you know, that's, that's what we kind of came up with. So I think we picked September 1 and not immediately. Order. I thought about ordered windows. There might be projects that are the lights are already ordered for. And we don't want them to have to reorder a completely new set if they don't comply with this policy. So there's sort of that window there and attempt to say, you know, if we're doing this three months from now, that three month window gives you enough time from the time we passed the policy to the time you would install to get the right thing ordered. But if you've already ordered it, just because it's not installed by our effective by the date we pass it, doesn't mean you can't use it. So that was the thinking around the motion. Or proposed motion. Thank you. Andy. So your hand is up. Okay. I wanted to make sure I wasn't muted. Well, but I want to thank you. Both of our sponsors for the work that they did to. Get this language in order. I have several things, but I'm going to mention this first as a matter of a Nica, you are going to bring. Gracie back when we got back to this item, if she had additional comments to make. I mean, I didn't want to leave her out entirely. So I just wanted to mention that. But going back to the proposed. But Mandy just gone through. At the bottom of page one, the yellow language, I was trying to figure out just the, where the punctuation belongs on that. And I think it would seem like if the word street lighting streets, streetlight spacing will be at the discretion of the town council. But that seems like it's a continuation of the sentence before. And if it is. Then it would seem that after the words require streetlight, it would be a period, not a comma. It would seem like it's a continuation of the sentence. In order to maintain equity of determination. For all residents, streetlight spacing will be at the discretion of the town council. Is that what you meant? And this shows that better. Use punctuation. So I think the current policy has. Has the wording. And the punctuation and spacing as it is now with that streetlight spacing and illumination. This one says an illumination, the current policy at the discretion of the slack word as a separate sentence as a separate paragraph and all of that. I think your language could work. We were trying to. Yeah, I think your language might be able to work if we combine. The spaces and the locations of that. And that might be a good point to agree with them. But I think the spacing is different than location. And that might be why Gilford is raising his hand. Cause we have. You know. Yeah. It's got something better, but. I'm sorry. I think we could. I think Gilford raised his hand about something else. I believe. Okay. question to at least to give some thought to. I'm not sure, but I really had trouble structuring where those sentences really most logically fit together. So I just wanted to give you some thought on that. Just a couple of other things to go through. They're really minor. The next section of red on page two, whether those three numbers just make sure they all align correctly. I would think that you'd need to look at that last sentence in red at the bottom where it says, these standards are designed to minimize light pollution. I would put glare up light comma and light trespass. I think it's maybe one thought. So it may be that it's these standards are designed to minimize light pollution comma glare comma, up light and light trespass comma and regulate illumination levels. Or we could also. So I would just take a look at that again and I can send that to you if it would be helpful. Andy, would it work in your mind to say as well as to regulate illumination levels instead of another hand? Yes, you could do that too. I know what you're talking about. You know what I'm saying? I can lead myself. And I would say up light and light trespass are they can be similar, but they're also different. Light trespass is the light that goes beyond where you want to illuminate. So thinking of a street light that illuminates half of a residence's yard. That would all be light trespass. Up light is also light trespass. So it's like a subset of total light trespass, but up light is a specific kind of light trespass. I trust your judgment on that. But then you would do you want the word hand in there? In other words, should it be up light comma, light trespass comma? I think I think we fixed it because what we're trying to minimize is the light pollution, glare, up light and light trespass. And we're not minimizing illumination levels. We're trying to regulate them. So we've separated that out with that as well as to I think that's more clear now. Okay. And the last thing that I wanted to raise and the other things that I spotted as I was reading through it is and again, I really appreciate your addition on to have to look for page numbers to make sure at the bottom in page five, where you have the yellow. But I had the question I had is, upon recommendation of the superintendent of public works, the town counts my way. I was wondering if it should, it could be the superintendent, but if there's a similar request from any of the public safety departments or the town manager. So should it, could it read upon recommendation of the superintendent of public works, town manager, or public safety department, or in some order, I'm not picking on the order. Good point, Andy. I think if we just put town manager in there, we cover it all. Yeah. That's a possibility. Because they all work for the town manager. But I would certainly think that any of the three public safety departments may make your suggestion of similar nature. Yeah, I mean, this is bringing me back to the beginning, the very, very beginning of our conversation where the other public safety entities really deferred to DPW on on this kind of stuff. So I think that that's a fair umbrella. And I'm assuming that most, if not all requests would come from, from DPW. But I think it's a fair umbrella to put in. But recommendation of town manager alluded to the town managers to where the manager wants to get recommendations from. Absolutely. So that's fine. Okay. That was for all of my comments. And so thank you. Thank you. Gilford? Do you, do you still want to keep the bug rating in this? Yeah. My, my supplier, my supplier says that the grading, they don't do it. They're not going to bug rate a fixture because there is no, there's no real way of doing it to bug rate the fixtures. Like you cannot set your looms unless you know where it's going to be. So one, for us to inventory all the lights and get their bug ratings, it's not a matter of looking something up in a book that says this is what it is. It's actually going out and measuring, which you're kind of saying we have to go out and measure every streetlight anyhow. I didn't see many more other things in this because this is the first time I've seen the revisions. But do we, do we want to have bug ratings in there? Do you want us to inventory every light and get the bug rating? Do you want us to inventory every light and put the, put a loom pattern down for every light that's out there? We can, those can easily, looms can be easily done based on a computer program, which is, we plug in, but you have to actually go out and measure the bug rating the way the bug rating is set up now. And it's not really a lighting industry accepted method of measuring. It's, it's something that may come into, may come into existence and more acceptability future, but right now it's not. So I guess I'm looking at where the bug rating is used. So are you talking about just number five here that's showing on the screen or there are two other places we, we reference the bug rating? Yes, you reference it in several places, but you want, you want us to one have a bug rating provided by the manufacturer, which they don't do. And the second one is to have a bug rating when you do the inventory of all the lightings, which means you have to physically do the measurements out there on site for each light. We can, we can do rough loom, illumination based on a computer model, but we, we have to physically do the bug ratings. I mean, it's just a matter of how much we want, the effort we want to put into it. I'm happy, if you want to do it that way, I'm happy to, to lead like that. So could I go on? Yes, please. I think under the maintenance standards, if we go down to that one, I would be okay eliminating the bug rating from the inventory. You know, it's got wattage, illuminance, spectrum. Those are much easier to do. So I would be okay with that if, you know, that seems like a reasonable request. And then when we go up to number five, the bug rating, I think I would like to leave it in, but I hear what you're saying, Guilford. So I wonder if we reworded it to, if provided by the manufacturer, manufacturer or luminaire should be selected with the lowest possible bug rating, ideally zero or one, something like that. Would, would that be acceptable, Guilford? It would be, yes. So it would reread if provided by the manufacturer or luminaire should be selected with the lowest possible bug rating, ideally zero or one values of three or above are expressly prohibited. Does that work? We can get rid of the phrase in the bug rating. Is the bug rating provided by the manufacturer? Is that something we achieve that we measure? It's something that would be provided by the manufacturer. It's through the Illumination Engineering Society, I believe is the Illuminating Engineering Society is the group that defined it. But I, so I believe it would be, I guess we could probably determine it, but I think it would be something that the manufacturer would provide hypothetically. So our manufacturer is one of the largest manufacturers in providing and they don't do it. Yeah, what I'm trying to figure out, Mandy, is if this is something that we also, I was trying to look up some of the other policies that we had researched and kind of what was used there because it's definitely, it's curious to me that it's not like it wouldn't be used by the manufacturers as well. Because it's in, I mean, I know it's in Pepperels. I can't remember if it's in Cambridges. Yeah, okay. But I think this change says, hey, if they do provide it, this is going for but it doesn't add all of that extra work, Guilford, that you were concerned about. Right. And then there were two other spots where bug ratings were mentioned. If we go up to page four, they're both on page four. The shield, that glare is one of them, you just paged down under it. So B, right there, glare. This one, I don't think needs changed because it says can include considering the bug rating for glare. So I think you're, you should be okay with that because it's not required to consider that versus other things related to glare. And then the next, okay. And then the next one is up at shielding. And again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this one might be okay too. We're specifying specific lumens levels and then we reference a bug rating. But it doesn't require that meaning that you don't have to find the bug rating or do you read that differently, Guilford? No, I'm okay with that one there too. So I have a question. Is it okay to go? Yes, of course. So there is, there is, this is sort of a standard that the town will use. There isn't a, it's, there's no sort of like, it seems like the council has a, can be a decision maker, but typically what you're saying is that as the town makes its decisions about streetlights, this is what we want, how you, we want you to implement it. Is that the way we read this? These are guidelines for us, right? In terms of the decision making, still all the, you know, streetlights, pretty much lives with the DPW. Are we reading that? Right. Well, what decisions come to the council? There's one time where it comes to the council, right? Are you asking like, are we deciding which, what the polls look like? Is that what you're asking? Well, yeah. Last time we, last, you know, the previous council wanted to look at every trash can or something like, you know, this depends where you want, what kind of detail do you want on this? And typically the DPW just sort of does their thing. And I, I read this as you're saying, do your thing within these guidelines, because we care about the light and how, and all these considerations. So as long as you fall within those guidelines, you keep doing what you're doing. And when you go to replace lights, comply with the guidelines, right? Correct. And so I think, but I think there's just one, one reference to the council where it comes, the council, the manager can come to the council to go outside these guidelines, right? I think. So there's a couple, many of which are left over from select board days all the way on page one. We just replaced the words at the very bottom select board with town council down there. So that, that's in that entire set of paragraphs. So that would be, I think you'd come to the council if there was a request for something outside of the location guidelines here. And then we added the reference to the council in the dimming section is one of the bigger ones. And I think that's it, but I'll do a search. And as, and I think this, this, you know, feel for feels it's workable from his sort of on the ground sort of looking at it with his electricians as they look at it feels good. The thing I think where it's going to get used is when we have disputes with, with property owners or neighbors, somebody wants one, somebody doesn't, they're both going to go to this policy and say, ah, you're either in compliance or you're not in compliance with your own policy. And I think we there's some that's when people are going to start doing their own bug ratings and stuff like that, you know, how we are in our community. So as I look at it from that, I think we'll just see how this works out because it's policy, right? So we can always change things around. But, but as I think about it's useful, the way I think of it's being useful, it's for the DPW's guide, it's decision making and also for, but it will come into play when someone says, I don't like the light you put up there, Guilford, I want it taken down because it and then they're going to dig into this policy pretty detailed. Yeah, or if there's light trespassing onto that, that's probably at least for residences where most of them to is going to be that light is too much trespassing too much onto my property. Exactly. So it needs a shield. It's not shielded enough to prevent that trespass per the policy. But yeah, I think both Anna and I envisioned it as creating the guidelines for DPW to follow, not for the council to get really hyper-involved with which air to choose at all. Can we go up to page one? I don't know who's running this, is the Athena? Athena. Where the street lights will generally be provided? We had talked, it's down a little bit to where there's actually black. Yeah, right there. One of the parts we didn't change. We proposed, we left this in, then Tracy got back to us with some conversation attack about regional bus transit bus stops. So I think we're now proposing to delete that change. So reject that change if TSO is okay with that. Did we want to hear Tracy's comment before? Yeah, and then I have a question. I also have comments to share from both Northy and Sheldt. So if we could invite Tracy back into the room. Are we taking public comment from anyone? We will certainly take. If anyone else, I see there's Jennifer and Jennifer, I'm sorry for not seeing you earlier. And Maura Keane, if anyone else has a comment, please raise your hand. If not, we will invite Tracy back into the room. Hi Tracy, the floor is yours again for up to three minutes. Hi, so I'd actually be interested in hearing the feedback from the counselors that you have comments from before I comment if that's okay. Sure, I will. So with Dorothy Pam, she says I'm hoping that the street lights will include having all crosswalks and bus stops and remove none in residential neighborhoods. I totally support the aspects that make light less troublesome for humans and other living things. And Shawnee shared that she has sent her questions on to both Anna and Mandy Jo and that she is agreeable to the policy as amended. Okay, thank you. So should I make any of my comments now? Okay, so I just wanted to respond quickly to this about the bus stops and crosswalks. Like it just to emphasize and the reason, and it wasn't just TAC, it was also the Disability Access Advisory Committee that also suggested that there would be lighting there, is that both of our committees, not to speak for DAC, but they had mentioned it at their meeting, it's just we realize how important it is to have some form of lighting at those locations for the bus stops and crosswalks that are used at night, including as the council sponsors have talked about having rectangular rapid flashing beacons. So my questions and comments, I mean some of it to me was, it's mainly about the dimming policy, but just to clarify when lights would actually be dimmed. And for example, the definitions of the village center boundaries, and if there should be additional village areas included, for example, like the mill districts. And I was thinking, I mean, one other area I was thinking about too is just an east Amherst, like for example, the Cumberland farm on Beltratown Road is open 24 seven. And so I guess I assume that that's probably in the east Amherst boundary, but the boundaries aren't always clear. And relatedly, I wasn't sure whether the municipal downtown parking district is the best way to represent what counts as downtown or not. But in terms of the dimming policy and Councillor Hanukkah had talked about the idea that they had looked at maybe restricting or doing less dimming on arterial roads. And I would still urge that I did hear, I do understand about, you know, certain arterials where they may be more suitable. But I went back and I looked at the all of the reported crashes from the mass DOT crash database for the 2010 to 2023 period for Amherst, looking at all the fatality crashes and the serious injury crashes. And 72% of those occurred on the major arterial, the principal arterials or the minor arterials. And over, you know, over 35% of them occurred at night. And we know too that in this time period, there were five pedestrian fatalities in Amherst and four of them were at night, too. So to me, the thing with the importance of good lighting on the arterial roadways is that the speeds, there's higher traffic volumes at night, the speeds are still higher at night, the risks are greater at night. And I mean, the evidence is right that that is where most of the crashes are occurring. And when I looked at other communities policies, and I did not find that money, but like for example, the city of Cambridge does have a citywide policies related to dimming. So they do have some areas that they dim some residential neighborhoods, they dim at eight p.m. and others that they dim at 10. But in Cambridge, all the major roadways are not dimmed until midnight. And then I also looked at Tucson, Arizona's policy, they do not dim the lights in Tucson until after midnight as well. And Flagstaff, Arizona, which is one of the first, you know, it's an award-winning dark skies community, they also base their lighting on the road classifications. So I mean, the reality is that the serious injuries are happening mainly on arterials, the serious fatalities, and it's not just pedestrians, it's also other roadway users. And so, and there's also been some studies that have not, it's not conclusive at this point, but, and I did share with the council sponsors that there have been studies that show that when you dim lights at night, there was one study from 2018 and it showed that when the lights were dimmed, even just moderately, that it did impact the participant driver's ability to see pedestrians. And so, I mean, maybe we could look, I mean, when you could look at, you know, perhaps not dimming in arterials, strodeways or not dimming on most arterial roadways or dimming later at night, I mean, some of those arterial roadways are having significant traffic through most of the night. So I just would urge, I would just urge us as a town to be conservative about where we are dimming in these situations that are the most traffic risk, and that, you know, as this is a policy, this can always be revised, but I would hate to go too far and then have adverse impacts. So thank you. Thank you, Tracy. I had one question about when you mentioned Cambridge. So did you say that Cambridge was, do they actually dim their lights at some point down to 35% or is that just what they have? They're only on at three. No, Pepperyl only has up to 30% Cambridge dims down. Okay. And about the same time, like hour after the latest business? I don't have the exact policy up in front of me. It's a little bit different. Tracy just cited some of the times, 8 p.m. in midnight, I think is what she said. Yes. So we have an article that says fixtures are dim to 70% prior to 10 p.m. or midnight and 35% thereafter. So we'd have to look at the exact policy and find it. I've always found Cambridge's website a pain to navigate. I think I just found it. So give me a little bit. But like talk about other things because this feels that pressure now. Were there any other questions or comments on a search in Cambridge? Maybe I'm going to send this to you so you can search with me. Okay. Anika, I mean, I guess they do, they have the lighting zones. And so it's, I think that the dimming would be shifted and we don't currently have them set up. It's fine. I was just curious. I was surprised that they dimmed too. It gave me a bit of a better understanding of what 70 would be because I was there not too long ago in the evening. And so it's kind of, that was helpful as a visual. Yep. And then I know there were questions about the map of the village center. We information from the master plan, I believe, is that correct, Manny? So we, the proposed policy, the only strict definition is that municipal parking district, which, you know, is not necessarily the greatest definition right now for the downtown. But it's one of the easiest to use. And when, you know, as, as Anna said, Cambridge, a lot of places, our original proposal used lighting zones where you can cross different boundaries and create your own lighting zones. If we're not going to go that route, and from all of the conversations we've had at this time, that route was not necessarily wanted. Defining sort of those pedestrian areas, those walkable business areas gets a little harder. So the use was the municipal parking district in the downtown. In the other areas, the definition is basically very vague, but specific. Gotta love that. I'll read the definition. Village centers, the areas of Amherst generally referred to as North Amherst Village Center, Cushman, Pomeroy Village Center and East Amherst Village Center. So, so there's no strict boundaries. So there's, there's a little bit of that leeway in there to, to in some sense, allow for that interpretation by the DPW of is this an area where we should have streetscape or where the utility pole is more appropriate? There's no defined, unlike our original policy, there's no defined quarter mile, half mile, these exact areas or anything. It's, it's a little more squishy, which might actually be better for our town as we work to, you know, East Amherst Village is going, undergoing a ton of changes in the next couple of years. And so where the streetscape lighting goes could, could change dramatically in that. And so this allows for that squishiness. Thank you. Last call. Any questions or comments? Andy? Yeah, I have, Mandy, going back to a section that you talked about previously, I just wanted to touch, ask a question about it. And that's on page four, where we talk, where you have the definite nuisance B, and you had said, because of the reference to bug rating, the determination will be made by the superintendent of public works of their, or their designee to recite visit and can include considering the bug rating for glare. And he said, well, since it says can it's okay. Then afterwards it says, which would should be no higher than gene one. Does that in effect create a standard that even though you're saying that they can consider, but you're also creating a standard that just don't understand enough, but to know how that works. But it seemed like it was in kind of like, yeah, so, so it is. But that standards created lower to in a sense where we say in number five bug rating, the bug rating ideally zero or one and values of three or above are expressly prohibited. So there's that wish washy with the number two, right? So this is should be no higher. So basically what we're saying in this whole policy is, we want zeros and ones everywhere for all the lighting for all the luminaires. Those those actually have numbers attached to them for the lumens, the uplight 100 lumens is the threshold for the you to cut off. So, you know, each of these have their own sort of internal standards. But yeah, so it is, but it's not a shell. It's not a must. It's not of that. And so if there is a bug rating on something, we're looking for zeros and ones twos might be okay, depending on where it's installed. But the idea is to lower those as much as possible. Okay. No, that's a good explanation. As long as Guilford is okay with it, I'm okay with it. Thank you, Andy. Guilford. With Andy's comment, I think I think we're okay with it. But then reading what Andy kept reading past what Andy was reading and got the sky glow. What is the baseline for sky glow? We're not supposed to increase. I mean, if I think if you can scroll down a little bit. Yeah, so I mean, it's it's hypothetically, it would be a before and after, but we don't necessarily have the before. And so I think that it's really looking at probably the closest nearby area and then the area nearby the streetlight. Mandy, would you say that there's a different way? Yeah, you might have found something we didn't calculate, right? Well, sky glow also changes due to due to weather patterns. Right. Yeah. So I think the goal, right, when we're talking about intent of this is really that that uplight, you know, because this is this is light trespass glare. It's not really totally uplight, but uplight is part of this, right? Because that's where sky glow a lot of times happens, although there's reflective glare that can cause sky glow. So the uplight, we should make sure that we're not installing items that luminaires that particularly when we talk about the streetscape lighting because we're allowing up to 100 lumens of uplight that that's not that the whole consideration of what would that do to the downtown compared to, you know, now, although now is a lot, right? We're actually trying to reduce now. You know, I actually think the goal is to get it as low as possible lower than what we have now. And so, yeah, I will agree this wording. Technically, the overall brightness or color of the night sky would actually reference zero lights at all. But that's not reasonable, right? And we know that. So, so, yeah, we want lower than we have now. We know, given that the policy allows for uplight, a little bit of uplight in streetscape lighting, we're not going to get to zero, right? So somewhere in between. It would probably be calculated through pictures or there's that one website that that gives you the lighting. I don't know whether I still have it. Is it the light pollution map? Is that the one? Yeah, that light pollution map that really gives you from the sky numbers, we definitely wouldn't want to exceed any of that. We'd actually, I think at one point Anna and I said we wanted it down to, I have to look at my memo. Now I have to find a different memo. So the Bordeaux classes we were talking about right now UMass is a class six in this Bordeaux class and much of Amherst is class five. Class five is considered a suburban sky. Class six is a bright suburban sky on this scale. And we had stated in our memo that our goal would be a class three or lower sky for all of Amherst. Class three is considered suburban to rural transition. No, class three is considered rural sky. And we have pictures of what that would look like. That's sort of the goal. But that's not necessarily put in here. Anna might have other thoughts. No, I think that about. Thank you. Got it. And it was light pollution map.info that shows where we currently are. Yeah, so I mean, looking at this, if you're looking at like Lawrence Swamp is a class four downtown UMass is a class six. Yeah. And the memo, there's a memo that we wrote to TSO on January 6 2023 that has a picture of what those classes mean and references that that website. So that might give you an idea of where we're aiming for. Do you have suggested language, Guilford? No, I just thought it was just left wide open. Would TSO be okay? We'd have to add the definition of the Bordle index or the Bordle classes. But we could put some language into Skyglow that indicates what our aim for the town is on the Bordle scale. Guilford, would that be helpful? You feel that would be helpful? Yeah, it would, I guess. Something that we can point to and say during a normal, normally clear night, this is what you expected to be. Does that sound good to you both, Andy? I'm fine with that if we can come up with it. Language we could potentially use is on a Bordle class scale or on a Bordle scale. Where are you adding this? I would just add it right where your cursor is for ease of adding. So can you spell Bordle? I will. It's B-O-R-T-L-E with the B capitalized. I think it's some person's last name. On a Bordle scale, the goal is to achieve a class three or lower sky for nearly all of Amherst. So the Bordle right now for almost all of Amherst is the lowest is four. Right. So I think what I would say is where Amherst is four, we want three or lower. And where Amherst is five or six, that's where we're aiming for four. Yeah, I feel like you could say in term, because we can only do this to the public ways, I think we could say for areas outside of village centers and downtown. Like I think that that might be reasonable to expect that the village centers in downtown may be a little bit higher. Yeah. So instead of for nearly all of Amherst for areas outside of the municipal parking district and village centers. Yeah. Sorry. And and village centers and both of those references get initial caps as defined terms in the policy. Does that feel better, Guilford? You're muted. Sorry. I mean, I assume that's a total yes. You're fully on board and excited now. You're still muted. So I'm still assuming it's all positive. My cursor was way over on the map. I'm looking around the map seeing what all the Bordle ratings are. I'm sorry. It's a fascinating website. It is. It's a, I mean, I mean, if we actually we can, I mean, this says 20, the map I see says 2015. Oh, it's 2022. Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah. As long as we have something to reference, that's really what we want. I think he's going down a rabbit hole. We've gone down this rabbit hole, Guilford. It's a really cool one. All right. So, so I feel like that's then I'm I'm about ready to make a motion, but I want to make sure there aren't any, there isn't anything lingering. And I also want to make sure I'm making the proper motion. So can I ask the clarifying, because Mandy, the motion that you wrote in the document, that's really intended for counsel. What I was going to make a motion was I'm not making it yet, Kelly, but it would be for TSO to recommend the acceptance of the amended streetlight policy with all edits as shown in this revised draft. Does that work for a TSO motion, Athena or Mandy, or do I need to read the actual council motion? Because we're just recommending. You're recommending, but I think the council might be helped by having a recommended sort of implementation, which is why this one's kind of written as a TSO. Okay. Because then it goes to the council with that effective date language too. Okay. All right. So I am I am ready then you can you can modify the deleting the lined out and all of that with what you said, because yeah, I'm going to say as amended in the draft. Okay. So hang on one second. I gotta write it. Okay. So I move that the TSO committee recommend to the council as keeper of the public way, the revision of the Amherst streetlights policy. This is grammatically incorrect now. As amended by TSO and by hang on I'm screwing this all up because I want to include the amendment. So do I say Kelly pause this? I'm starting over. So do I say that as amended and Athena you're laughing at me and I know it. I will say I always say as amended at the meeting of that's enough. I can just say that. Yep. I meant it at the at the meeting of the TSO meeting on beautiful. Okay. I'm going to start over and I'm going to do it not correctly, but closer to correctly. Okay. So I move to recommend to the council as keeper of the public way the revised Amherst streetlights policy as amended by TSO on June 15th 2023 with the following effective dates effective September 1st 2023 for all new or replacement streetlights and for existing streetlights lawfully installed prior to September 1st 2023 full compliance no later than September 1st 2023. Could you just one more time the read the part about yes let's see the revised streetlights policy actually okay let's if you could read the whole thing once or maybe it's easier Kelly if you read what you have and then Anna can tell you what's missing. Good idea. So I have Devlin got your move second and by we'll see that the TSO committee recommend that the town council as keeper of the public way. I'm missing a word here is it like is it adopt revise or amend revise the Amherst streetlights policy as amended by TSO on June 16th 2023 it's the 15th stop 15 sorry 15 15 15 thank you amended by TSO on June 15 2023 and then the next part is just the with the following effective dates and those dates listed on the screen correct correct great okay all right so I said that that is on the table I still need a second oh my golly gee will it go second thank you Andy all right and I will call it Anna hi Andy hi all right wait I'm sorry Guilford your hand is up oh sorry oh Guilford don't stand me like that oh my god all right so that is unanimous with two absent I did have one comment all right ahead so this this forum they voted we're moving on this portal map is pretty cool but where I live I have no street lights there's not a streetlight at the end of my street either end or anywhere in the middle of my street as dark as we love it um but my portal ratings four so I think it'll be curious to look at how they measure it and how the like the spread of in terms of like sky glow how far that might go right because I think that that's how they they're doing this through GIS mapping and so I mean I think that might be indicative of just how impactful that uplighting and sky glow can be a way you can put your address in and zoom in lights are only one part of lighting right you you don't have any street lights but if someone throws a we we get some flood lights in our neighborhoods to flood lighting driveways that's going to change it so we I will say I recognize that just the street lights alone will have a difficult time getting those down there yeah I mean it's actually I'm sorry to drag this out but it's a nerdy thing I like it um you mass is really the driver behind this I mean the campus is the driver that's been um that's been a topic of conversation a couple times because we recognize that that is not within the public way and it's the most significant contributor across town to like it is I'm sorry thank you we know we nerd out about it too it's okay no I actually just I know where my house is I just went on the map and found it yeah I don't know if you can type in an address but you can zoom in it's really interesting thank you all um Mandy I want to I know that we've been working on this together but I I want to thank you on the record in the committee because I know that this has been a beast for almost a year if not over a year and uh it's done a lot of iterations and we're not done yet but I really appreciate TSO taking the time on this and Mandy's patience in this process as well and Guilford's patience in this process everybody's input and TSO's inputs along with TAC and DAAC and we heard a little bit from planning board we've been all over it's been very I think it's been a great process yeah a long process but a good one thank you thank you Mandy thank you thank you Guilford for being with us staying with us okay so we do not have any items that have come in oh just a just a quick note this will go to GOL um for review before it comes to the council it was referred to TSO with input from finance and GOL thank you thank you Athena all right um does anyone have an announcement to make anything to share I'll just share that we have the family outreach of Amherst fundraiser late at the night going on tomorrow night and we have a bunch of Juneteenth celebrations for the town of Amherst um I don't know if you see the hashtag Juneteenth Amherst mass that's Saturday Sunday and Monday please cross all your fingers that the weather will be kind and I believe that that is it for us this evening thank you all for being here and see you next good night and everybody thank you all so much