 This is Stink Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Bingo, we're back. This is Stink Tech Hawaii, and today we're doing Community Matters, a special show at the one o'clock block. We're talking about energy. Actually, we're talking about more than energy. Our special guests are Michelle Daigle. She is the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum graduate research assistant for Sharon Moriwaki at UH Manoa. And Erin Bear, mostly Bear. Breach, is that right? That's correct. And he is also a graduate research assistant for Sharon Moriwaki at the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum at the University of Hawaii. And the title of our show, which is actually the title of the program we're going to discuss, it's the same thing. If it's different, there's something wrong. It's called Making Good Plans, that sort of word, plans for a sustainable, resilient Hawaii. And it's the title of the legislative briefing which these guys are working on, which is going to take place on January 10th, which is one week from today at the auditorium in the Hawaii Capital Building. Wow, exciting. As Hawaii Energy Policy Forum does every single year, just before the session opens, the session opens on January 17th, I want to say, and January 10th is before. And the idea here is to educate and sort of warm up, if you will, the legislators of the Hawaii State Legislature in 2018 on issues relating to energy, sustainability, and resilience. Okay, so let's get down to the details. What are you guys doing on this program first? Well, right now what we're trying to do is finalize our speakers and really come together on our three separate panels. We have a major panel in the beginning of keynote panel that will set up the entire day. And then followed by that, so we'll be touching on some key points. And one of our key people actually that we'll be presenting is, will be Denise Antolio. Yeah, we're going to go through that. Okay, so Erin, Bear, if she's doing that, what are you doing? Well, what am I doing? That's a good question. You came to ThinkTech to find out what Bear is doing. It's a cliffhanger question. Well, it's been a cooperative effort. We've been working with the speakers and organizing this event. It's really set in the foundation for providing information for the legislators and managers for learning about how Hawaii can be more resilient and more sustainable, especially with this unpredictable climate that we live in. Yeah, you bet. You know, it's interesting in some ways it's confusing that we have climate change, we have energy, and we have to establish the connection, you know? So this is a program differing from earlier programs in earlier years, you know, where the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum is, yes, it's doing energy, it always does energy, sort of in the concept of our community, our state, is more than just energy touches sustainability and resilience. So why don't you help me with that intersection, Michelle? Well, this year what we're doing is different. We are partnering with the Office of Planning. And so the State Office of Planning, Leo Asuncion, has come on board, and we're really trying to work at that intersection because the focus of all of that is having a good solid plan. If you don't have a plan, then it really makes it very ad hoc as you're going through and you're trying to address these issues of resiliency. A plan for integrating energy into Hawaii in response to climate change, in response to increasing hazards having to do with either vulnerability with oil prices spiking and also with these incredible weather patterns that we're seeing all in either the Atlantic or in the Pacific Ocean. It's getting very severe and Hawaii's right in the thick of things. Okay, Bear, how's she doing and how much of what she said you agree with? I agree with all of it so far. I thought you'd say. So what does sustainability mean? Well, that's kind of a loaded question in the terms of what sustainability, what are we looking for? Sustainable, what is sustainability? Sustainable is I guess it keeps on going. Yeah. If you have already battery, it just keeps on going so it's sustainable. It doesn't fall apart, right? What do you want? That sustainability. How does that apply in the world of social science? We want Hawaii to be like, they can do things on their own to be sustainable in energy, as Michelle mentioned, and we import 90% of the food that we have here. So if a weather event was to happen or some geopolitical crisis was to occur, we want to have a sustainable future so with all these external factors we can provide for ourselves. You're making the assumption that we will have, A, those events will happen. Yeah. And I'm not going to disagree. And B, that we are going to be on our own when, you know, likely on our own when those events happen. Well, is that what's implicit here? Being 2,000 miles away from the United States, it puts us in a unique situation of we are kind of on our own, but yet connected at the same time. Yeah. So with the increasing weather and extreme weather patterns that are happening, we've been so fortunate to not be hit by a major hurricane. Yeah. I always say every day, you know, it's a beautiful day. Today's a beautiful day. It's a day closer to the next big weather event. Yeah. So why do we care about this? Why don't we just wait for it to happen and deal with it then? Well, if you do that, then when something major does happen, we're not going to have a coordinated effort to deal with this. We're actually less resilient if we wait in this kind of, you know, response type of environment. Yeah. We want to preempt that type of situation. Yeah. And to do that, we really need to sit down and look at how we are all interconnected. It's supposed to be ignored. Excuse me. Wait for it to happen. And why do we, you know, so it'll happen. It'll be an interesting day. Well, interesting in the Chinese sense. It'll be very interesting. Why do we care? Why are you working so hard on this program? Why don't we just let it go? Because we don't want Hawaii to be like Puerto Rico. Ah. We don't want Hawaii to have a situation where you have an extreme weather situation where there are another type of hazard that comes in and throws us for a loop because we are waiting to see how we might react that destroys our grid. But let's look at Puerto Rico for a minute. Of course, they still, even now, what is it, three, four months already? Yeah. They don't have electricity. There's still 50% of electricity. Yeah. That's really an awful way to live. And it means there's no economy, zero economy. Yeah. And people are sick. They're not getting well. Exactly. Their lives are like on hold at best. Yeah. And maybe worse. But I guess what I get out of Puerto Rico is that you could die. Yeah. You could die. People you know could die. Lots of people could die. It depends on how extreme it is, right? It does. It depends on me. So you're trying to save lives. Orange you, Michelle. I got you now. I am. I'm trying to save. I'm trying to save lives. Trying to save economy. Trying to save. It's not just, it has to do with life or death, but it also has to do with standards of living, too, leading up to that. It doesn't wait for some type of an extreme event to change the ways in which we go about our daily lives. Why didn't you have a program like this last year or the year before? We just really weren't ready. It's, I think, with the state legislator going ahead with the Paris Climate Accord and really setting us up for this conversation. It's the right time. This is the right time to talk about it. What is the intersection that makes you say it's the right time, Bear? Well, this unique opportunity we're having, partnering with the state office of planning, is so unique. Having, we want the state office to be the center of all the planning that's going on in the state. I know it sounds kind of interesting, but we have a lot of silo planning that can occur. Some people can be stuck. You're trying to tell me that there's a lot of planning going on, but it's not coordinated, is that what you're trying to say? It happens. It couldn't happen. Yeah. And we want that. You're so politically correct, Bear. I'm trying to be, I guess. What kind of planning are we doing here in the state? I mean, around this area, around the notion of making a more sustainable, resilient Hawaii, who's doing what as we know today right now? Hawaii's in a unique situation being the largest metropolitan area and being one of the most isolated ones in the Pacific, and we feel the effects of climate change more than any other place in the world. Yeah. And having 1.2 million people on a walk, we need to start planning for more people and the smaller surface area of an island that we're going to have. So, planning for this and putting the correct policies and actions in place to protect the quality of life. But why now? Why now? Why is this important now? I think of this as a metaphor. Everybody does certain things to prevent a heart attack or heart disease. You work out, you take an aspirin, you exercise, you do that. You plan so you can be properly prepared when a certain disaster hit. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, it sounds like, I'm taking a wild guess here, it sounds like somehow these events are somehow closer to us and that we are more aware of them. We begin to acknowledge the realities, the danger, and so it would be a good time when you realize the danger, it would be a good time to try to plan. Yeah. Absolutely. But we really shouldn't wait for it to get to that peak point. Well, I mean, over the past... I mean, some of these things could wait decades. It could, but others... I mean, just last, I think it was just this past year, you, if you had a satellite picture of the Pacific Ocean, you saw three intense hurricanes. Yes, right. All lined up, one right south. Better than us. You know, it's just... We miss the bullet. We miss them all. We keep missing the bullet. And while we can be, we're extremely fortunate for that, who's to say that in the next moment, we're not going to have that. And so there is this inability to fully predict what will happen, but at the same time, that inability to not concretely predict what will occur should spring us to action. Okay. So, I mean, this intersection is integration of energy and all the other things. Why is the energy policy forum interested in, you know, climate change and sustainability, such as is going to be revealed in this program? That's a very good question. We are interested in this because at this juncture in time, we're understanding that if we just focus purely on energy itself, all by its own, we are in effect siloing ourselves as well. We have to start interconnecting. It's this cross-fertilization between the different departments, between different sectors. Just recently over at our Hawaii Clean Energy Day back in August, we were really trying to do this between the intersection between energy and transportation has been neglected. I'll agree with that. We really need to sit down and look at how both of these different sectors can work to support each other. That's something you said a minute ago. The economy, which, you know, affects our quality of life, getting up in the morning and prosecuting our day. So, if you don't have a ready supply of energy that you can afford, you don't have an economy. No, you don't. It's a direct proportion, good energy, good economy. So, if we lose energy for any reason, you know, then we are not sustainable as an economy. So, I think it's joined at the hips. It is. And specifically in Hawaii, where we, a lot of our economy is based on tourism, it actually uses quite a bit of energy to even bring in people to sustain our economy. We are reliant on large numbers of tourists from Europe, from Asia, from the mainland. It's relational. If we don't get the tourists, okay, we're not going to have an economy. And we can't get the tourists so we don't have energy. Exactly. So, this is a big effect from one thing only. Exactly. We really need to see it as a web where you may have an intersection of one or two strands that are really easily recognizable on one plane. And on another plane, you'll have another group. But if you tug on one place, you're going to have this movement at the center of the web. It's just we don't see the direct connection. We need to start thinking of energy, sustainability, transportation, agriculture, so biofuels. So what's the referendum term for? You listed a bunch of things. It's an ecosystem. It's a social ecosystem. That's what you guys do at the School of Social Sciences, isn't it? It's what you study all day. You're both studying there, am I right? Yes. How much of what she said you agree with? 100%. What would you add to it? I would just say that, like Michelle mentioned, it is a web and there are ebbs and flows of what is going on. Yes, you pull one end and another end is going to be affected. Yes. But there needs to be communication of, hey, we're doing this over here. You might feel this effect. So can you please prepare for it? So the citizens and the residents might feel this effect. So if one part of the web doesn't properly planned, it's not just this, the DOE's not just going to be feeling the effect. It's the DOT and our public health and so on and so forth. Exactly. Well, that suggests that we have very complex problems because this involves everything in our society, directly or indirectly. It's a complex problem that can only be handled by a central authority. Somehow the central authority has to give us leadership to get together by consensus or otherwise and make it sustainable and resilient. And that's what director assumptions office is supposed to be. They are the state office of planning. They are supposed to be setting out all the plans for all of the different governmental agencies throughout the entire state that you then take a look at and check to see whether or not your plan dovetails it and achieves that overarching goal. There's an idea. All the plans should be consistent. They should be consistent and connected. You heard it here on Think Tech. Now you're going to hear a big break and when we come back, Michelle and Bear are going to take us through the actual program. How exciting. We're going to hear about the big name speakers and roughly decide or at least understand what they're going to say that's next Wednesday, January 10th. At what time? At 1 p.m. At 1 p.m. In the state legislature auditorium right there in the capital. Right after this break we're going to be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii raising public awareness. Sounds like scuba divers are the poor man's astronaut. At dive heart we believe that to be true. We say forget the moon. Dive heart can help children, adults, and veterans of all abilities escape gravity right here on searchdiveheart.org and imagine the possibilities in your life. They said I could play so I had no chance to play at all. That's my life. I love music. That's how we do it. Likeable science on Think Tech Hawaii. Every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. I hope you'll join me for likeable science where we'll dig into the science, dig into the meat of science, dig into the joy and delight of science. We'll discover why science is indeed fun, why science is interesting, why people should care about science and care about the research that's being done out there. It's all great, it's all entertaining, it's all educational, so I hope to join me for likeable science. I'm Jay Fidel and I told you we'd be back, like MacArthur. I'm kidding around. Okay, we'd be back and we are talking about making good plans for a sustainable, resilient Hawaii with our special guests, Michelle Dago and Aaron Bear Breach. They are both graduate research assistants at Hawaii Energy Policy Forum in the School of Social Sciences at UH Manoa and they're both involved in planning this legislative briefing January 10th next week in the Capitol auditorium. So it's divided into three parts. Yes. Tell me the three parts we'll rotate. Tell me the three parts and what the scope of each part is. Okay, so the first, we have three different panels. The first panel is a keynote panel. The second is our state panel, the state representatives on it. And the third one we'll be finishing with the county panel. First one, what's the scope? The second one is really meant to provide a background and a foundation for the discussion for the entire day. It's going to be discussing climate change. It's going to be discussing the role of legislation and mitigating that and connecting, cross-connecting all the different sectors we were talking about earlier in a cohesive manner. This is foundational stuff. It's foundational. So that the legislators who attend or listen on to get these things in their offices, they can listen to what's going on elsewhere in the Capitol. And if they look at the videos, we'll take video that they do. So they can get an idea of the connections, the interconnection of all these things. That ecosystem you're describing is a really good description. So tell us who's on this first panel. The keynoters. Okay. So the first person is Denise Antoli. And she's going to be talking about the intersection of climate change and renewable energy. And then next... She's a lawyer. She is a lawyer. She's a lawyer. She's a lawyer. She's a lawyer. She's a lawyer. She's a lawyer. She is a lawyer. She's a law professor. She's a law professor over at... She's the number two... I think she's the associate dean. ...at the University Law School. Yeah, she has done... She's done a lot of research on environmental science. Yeah, she's an environmental lawyer and teacher. Yeah. Yes. So she could talk about the legal structure. Yeah, she's... I think it's really important that whatever we plan, we have to execute. And if you're going to execute, you have to make statutes. And the statutes should be in their own landscape consistent with other statutes. Exactly. She's the next-to-action type of perspective where she's really... She's going to survey the field and then she's going to show us how we can translate that over into actionable policies and laws that we can use to help structure and plan. So we'll figure out what the existing, you know, statutory framework is to figure out what we do, what we take apart of that plan and try to implement through new laws. Exactly. So you want to... There's Leo Asunchin, which is the director of the State Office of Planning. He's going to talk about how... You mentioned him. Yeah. He's your co-partner in this whole deal. Yes. And he's going to talk about how the State Office of Planning is going to be the nexus of planning in the state of Hawaii and kind of walking us through the process and the co-teaching between planning through all the different counties and different silos, different departments. Yeah. So the operative word is planning. Yeah. You know, you can go ad hoc and sometimes the legislature does go ad hoc without considering the effect of what it's doing as against other statutes and other priorities. A plan helps you resolve the priorities and the timing. Exactly. And determine what's first and what's more important and how much money you should be spending on this, that and the other thing. Yeah, because sometimes what you want to do may cost more, but it's more essential than these lower-hanging fruit that you want to grab at. Right? Yeah. So it pays to take a look at that plan. It's like having a good outline when you're putting together a presentation. Yeah, but the problem is there's a lot of agencies in this state and other states that have their own planning group. So you're going to plan a group here, plan a group there. But that's the whole point with Leo Sunchin's office is that's actually part of it. You want to have a centralized plan but you need it to be adaptable to different situations. It's just you need it to have cohesive strands throughout all the disparate parts so they're not actually disparate. Yeah. They're working in synergy with the state. And you're also suggesting by implication that the plan is not static. Exactly. Because life is not static, history is not static, and geopolitical and ocean and earth science is not static. Right. And if you think of if it's static then it's not resilient. Resiliency is all about malleability, flexibility, flexibility, change, and making sure that you give and take with the situation at hand. I'm going to go to this program. Guarantee. I'll be there. Good to know. Okay. Who's after Leo? There's Chip Fletcher from the SOAS. Oh, we've heard his name. He's been here. He's a very famous person in the world of sustainability and climate change. And he'll be discussing the impacts that climate change will have on the state of Hawaii and the kind of the factors that will be influencing Hawaii specifically. So hurricanes, rainfall, food security. And then I know he wants to touch on homelessness and what that means. Wow. That's a lot to bite off. Yeah. What is he speaking for six hours? I think he has eight minutes or so. Okay. That'd be very interesting. Yeah. He's been looking at this a long time even before it became coin of the realm here the way it was now. Yeah. And he helped with the sea level rise with the report the fiscal one. He made charts or innovation charts that we need to look at. And I'm sure the charts are more threatening now than they were when he first made them. Yeah. Here we are. We're going down that pike. Yeah. It doesn't stand still. Yeah. Okay. Who's after Chip? And then after Chip will be John Cole. He's over at HNEI. And he'll be looking at the scientific research behind energy and looking at how that can come into play in our plans in regards to sustainability, resiliency. Yeah. This is all consistent with the notion that Hawaii is a laboratory. Exactly. Because we're alone but also because we have these resources. We have guys like Fletcher. We have guys like John Cole at HNEI can find things out in connection with energy but the intersection of energy and other things that we could not only use ourselves but each to the mainland who may not have the same level of awareness about these things. Yeah. We could, I mean, Hawaii's a leader in so many different venues, so many different areas and arenas. This is where we can be a leader again. Yeah. Where we can really show the mainland what Hawaii has to offer in terms of research, in terms of driving the conversation. Yeah. And to be a beacon of hope in how we can figure. I want to tell you assuming we can garner that reputation, which I hope we can. Maybe this program the guys are working on will help us garner that reputation. If a bad storm happens and we go down the pike like Puerto Rico, we're not going to be a leader anymore. That's right. We're going to be into survival mode. So we have to be well prepared and we're going to demonstrate that we're well prepared. Exactly. Okay. That's the end of that panel. That's the end of that panel. That's the state panel. Yeah. And you mentioned just a moment ago the prioritization that needs to be done for the state. And that's exactly what they're going to be speaking about is how there are different projects that will be done and different plans that are proposed to them. But there needs to be a cost benefit analysis of showing this needs to be done. It'll benefit this amount of people and it should be prioritized one. That's for the planners to do that. You cannot expect to give a legislature a legislator or legislative committee to get down that way. You've got to have a careful plan with you've got to bring your resources and scientists and sociologists whatever together. Yeah. And so they figure out the short strokes and they make a recommendation to the legislation and then the legislature tests on that and looks into that and takes action on that. So that's the way the process I think should work and I hope I'm right when it comes out that way in this panel program. Okay. Oh, the second you want me to go through each of them. First will be Vice Chair Willis Sparrow. So he's going to be talking about the perspective of what needs to happen in the legislature from the senate perspective. And we just had a conversation with him today and he was saying how he's heard so many different projects over 200 and he can just name a few with just his hand that have actually come to fruition and part of that he said has to do with really laying out really clearly the steps that need to be taken to achieve these plans so it doesn't fizzle out. So he wants something really well laid out so he can turn around and assess it for the state of Hawaii and then implement it. And get public support. Get public support. Exactly. So and that's really key. Who else? There will be Chair Chris Lee from the House Committee on Energy and Environmental Protection. He'll be speaking on what risks are posing the state of Hawaii and what needs to be done to protect the shorelines in our land. He's a fellow who could actually do a lot of lawmaking. Yeah. As a chair of the Energy Environmental Committee. Okay, who else? Next we have Suzanne Case over at DLNR. She plans to address climate change and adaptation in relevance to your other programs that they have and looking at how that's going to create a sustainable, resilient Hawaii in regards to forestry, wildlife, land management, aquatic infrastructure. She is an extensive background in this, I mean, 28 years. Big job, big agency, big responsibility and it's really great that these are great people. Yeah, I think she's going to bring quite a bit to this panel. Who else? There's David Rodriguez from DOT and he'll be speaking on HDOT's role in sustainability in the airports, the roads and all the transportation sector in Hawaii. Yeah, well, there's a lot of energy involved in that and it's a catch-up game with transportation because we really haven't paid that much attention to it and we only have, what, five or six thousand electric cars in the state when we have a million fossil fuel cars we have to make progress and we can't achieve to your point we cannot achieve sustainability without solving that problem. Exactly. We can't keep on fossil fuel because fossil fuel is not sustainable so if you want to have a sustainable place you've got to make that shift. You do. And that's why DOT is so important. He is really important. Who else? Then we have Scott Enright over at the Department of Agriculture and he's going to be talking about the intersection of sustainability and food security and really looking at how we can create state, county and private partnerships to mitigate any types of hazards in that it's not working. Exactly. I think we only have about a week's worth of food at any one time. They have more. Well, McDonald's. It's not real food. It's plastic. Exactly. You can't live on that. Some of that food is okay but you can't live on that. So we have to figure out a way to grow agriculture. Exactly. Again, this touches everything, doesn't it? It touches everything. It's economy. It's locals working for other locals. It really creates that ohana type of thing I think. And we want these organizations to the legislature not only educating what makes suggestions about what are the important initiatives that should be considered. Exactly. And the actions that need to be taken. Yeah. Okay. Is that the end of the second panel? No. We have one more. Luis Salveria over at D-Bed. Another important department head who's going to be talking about D-Bed and their resiliency programs and how they are envisioning resiliency within their department and ostensibly it's the connection with business, all of business in the state of Hawaii so I'm sure he'll have I hope he'll have some really important ideas. Luis, you've got to have some important ideas here, okay? Come through for us. All right. That's the second panel. The third panel is the county panel. Yes. And they'll be speaking about what's going on in each county for resiliency and sustainability and how they're engaging different stakeholders and basically what needs or need to be met for each county to be sustainable and resilient. This is great. This hasn't happened before. Counties are getting together. I don't know what happened this year must be the water. Something changed, isn't it? They had a meeting a few weeks ago representatives of all the energy offices on all the neighborhood. I was at a while who would get together and compare notes of what they're doing but this is the most exciting part of the entire program because I mean I'll just I'll read them off to you. We have Ron Whitmore over at Hawaii County. We have Fred Riddell from Maui. He's the energy commissioner over there. We have Josh for our city and county of Honolulu. And then we have Mike Dolly over at the Department of Planning on Hawaii. And they have been in the thick of things and they're already communicating and they already have several different points that they need to bring to the legislature. Yeah. And the legislature needs to hear what they are doing and what they need. Exactly. Yeah. It's brilliant, you know, Michelle, there. Brilliant. It's a great, great program. Great panels, great thoughts, great ideas, a great need to discuss and achieve action. So this is the big intersection is not only between the subjects that will be covered it's between these people and the legislature who could actually do something. So close for me. Okay. What should people remember about this? We're really trying to make good plans for sustainability in Hawaii and it's essential for us to have these good plans and to get out of silos and to communicate to make sure that Hawaii is sustainable across broad sectors. Yeah. We want to avoid any type of severe hazards to our way of life. We want to survive. We want to survive It's not just survival. It's thriving. Right. Okay. That's good. And kudos to the School of Social Sciences for putting you guys on it for, you know, being the organizers of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum and encouraging this kind of program. Bear, now you get to tell everybody where and when and how they can get there. Well, it is next week exactly one week from right now the Hawaii State Auditorium at the Hawaii State Capitol 1 to 4 p.m. You can get there. I believe it's Baritania is the best access to this. Yeah. You can do your you can ride Bickey over there. You can take the bus. You could ride your EV. You could walk. You could carpool. You could carpool. So many. So many ways to get there. Complete streets, Ron. Complete legislative streets. Okay. And also we'll make a video of it. And we'll play it on OZ16. So you can see it after the fact and bear. You guys are great. See you soon. Aloha.