 It's good to see everybody here today what I would like to do and I'm going to sing a sing a direction song that since we're from all coming from all different directions together today. I thought that'd be appropriate as we get started. I have a few words following that and then I'll close with another short song. And so this song will go to the four directions to Mother Earth and to the creator. To be with us as we go through this day today and be within our hearts and minds be with all those in our in our communities. We ask a special blessing on all those who are ailing and body and spirit on this day, and with their caregivers, as the creator to reach out and touch them and give them the strength they need to get through this day, and through the challenges in their lives. We ask a blessing on all the lawyers who fought to help protect all of our peoples, and all the veterans who may be wherever they are that create their reach out and touch them and help bring them peace in their lives. We thank the creator for the for the infants and the youth, the middle age, the old age all around that circle of life that we, we really appreciate all of the teachings and all the blessings that we have in our lives. Miigwech, Miigwech, Miigwech, Miigwech. And now as we get ready to journey on through this day. I thought I would sing a canoe song that's a, it's a short song but it's a song that you would sing while paddling a jiman or a canoe, and I thought it'd be appropriate for this travel that we're going to be taking together today. The song is a song that you would sing while paddling a jiman or a canoe. This song is my canoe. It's like, it's like a fish my canoe is like the wind. And I thought that would be a good song to carry us through as we're working together. So with that I close my opening blessing and I wish everybody well as we go through this day. Thank you Frank for opening us and opening the side event in a in a good way. Thank you very much. I, it is my pleasure to call to the floor miss and northern miss and northern is from the Sami people and is, is the chair of the UN permanent forum of indigenous issues. Miss northern for us yours. Thank you. And hello, good day, everybody. Indigenous sisters and brothers, ladies and gentlemen. The United Nations General Assembly has declared 2022 the International Year of Artisanal Fisheries and aquaculture aquaculture celebrating the in international year of Artisanal Fisheries and aquaculture. In 2022 will give recognition to the millions of small scale fishers, fish farmers and fish workers, and also to the indigenous peoples who are fishermen and who work with fishing. The indigenous people's culture is based on the pre use of land, water and natural resources. In the context of the Sami people, our main traditional livelihoods are reindeer herding fishing hunting and wild berry picking. The indigenous and traditional food system of the Sami people depends entirely of these traditional livelihoods, thus maintaining them as vital for uphold traditional food system. The traditional semi livelihoods are practiced sustainable way and let the, the nature restore itself reindeer migrate from different freezing lands to another. Fish population is not traditionally over fish and game populations are maintained in carrying capacity to ensure food for coming years. In the context of these factors, principally environmental changes caused by competitive land usage and climate change are decreasing the key food resources as practicing and maintaining traditional livelihoods and traditional knowledge become more challenging. There is and mushrooms event on climate. Climate change has negative impacts to reindeer herding hunting and fishing. In seasonal seasonal calendar have occurred that falls are longer and the falls are longer and spring spring arrives earlier than before, and also the winters are milder. I'd like to share a practical example of the effects of the climate change to our culture. My home river, the river Tietno, in Finnish it's Denno and in Norwegian Tana is the largest, largest Atlantic salmon river in Europe. In 2017, the both Finland and Norway ratified Tietno agreement. This Tietno fishing agreement regulates fishery rights, fishing quotas and fishing techniques techniques in my home river. And so it protects and preserves salmon stocks in the entire river system. But lately the salmon stocks, the Atlantic salmon stocks have been steadily decreasing. So there were needed some measures to protect the salmon. And my people, the Sami, we have been living in the area since time immemorial. And we have stated that this agreement violates our fishing rights, our right to culture as indigenous peoples. Because in this agreement, there are no rights recognized to Sami people as such. Although we have demanded our rights to be recognized in same manner that they are recognized in the constitutions of Finland and Norway. And for example, the Finnish constitution recognizes Sami peoples right to practice their culture. And for the summer, next summer of 2021, the governments of Finland and Norway have proposed a total salmon fishing ban for all fishermen in order to protect Atlantic salmon. The Sami Parliament of Finland states that this total salmon fishing ban violates the Sami peoples right to our culture because it denies completely the inland fishing for the Sami. And thus prevents us practicing completely our culture. So this is at the moment one of the issues negotiated between the Sami Parliament and the Finnish government to see. And in the government of Norway and Finland are going to decide this later before the first of May. But for us, this is a question of our life, our rights to practice the culture. So therefore the international year of artisanal fisheries and aquaculture is an important step taken by the international community to recognize indigenous peoples fisheries and food systems. And the connection between indigenous peoples food security and collective rights to lands, territories and natural resources. And the permanent forum, we appreciate that the FAO hosted an expert seminar on traditional knowledge and indigenous peoples fisheries in the Arctic region in 2019. The seminar highlighted the need to support and strengthen indigenous peoples fisheries and indigenous peoples knowledge related to fishing. Considering the global challenges of climate change and loss of biodiversity environmental degradation impacts to our marine ecosystems and the potential for a diminish of indigenous knowledge related to indigenous fisheries hunting and subsequent impacts upon the intergenerational transmission of indigenous knowledge knowledge. We hope that the indigenous peoples and our traditional knowledge is included in the celebration of the year next year to conclude. I would like to welcome the very recent fisheries agreement reached between the government of Canada and is to list we make my government. This land landmark agreement was reached in the spirit of collaboration and as an example for the rest of the world. The purpose of the plan is to advance reconciliation in the fisheries. It address, it addresses areas of mutual respect and will support theistically mick muck capacity to participate in the fisheries. With the goal of economic self reliance by obtaining additional fisheries access, such as through licenses and quota and establishes a co developed and collaborative approach to fisheries governance. This kind of agreement is an excellent example of good practices and demonstrates how indigenous peoples knowledge on fisheries can be incorporated in, in, sorry, in the state's government system. I wish you successful discussions for this site event. Thank you. Thank you miss and noggin. Thank you for sharing your, your personal experiences with us. I know you're one of the busiest people during this UN permanent forum we would love for you to stay for the event but we understand if you have to go to attend other events. Thank you so much. Before we begin with our esteemed speakers I would like to share some housekeeping rules for the session to all participants we encourage the participants and speakers to edit your zoom name to include your organization and your, and your name. As mentioned, at the start all observers are pleased to turn off your video and mute your sound. If you have any questions to the panelists we encourage you to use the chat. Please begin with the word question in front so that we can easily distinguish questions from comments. I request to please be specific concise and direct the question to the person who you wish to ask the agenda and biographies of the speakers will be posted in the chat as I introduce the speakers. We would like to record this session, please let us know if there's any problem in doing so. Because small request please keep your camera on when when you are speaking if possible. I will give you a prompt a voice, a voice prompt when you have run over time if you don't mind me doing that. If you have any technical issues please contact my colleague Louisa Castaneda by sending a private message in the chat. I would like now like to call miss Nicole France to the floor. Nicole is the equitable livelihoods team leader of the FAO fisheries division. Nicole, Nicole, the floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you very much, and Andy, and it's my pleasure and my honor to be with you here today. This morning or this afternoon or this evening, depending where you are joining from. I will give you a very brief overview of some of the global frameworks that are relevant for indigenous inland fisheries. Before we, we hear more about the real experiences from from our distinguished panelists. Let me briefly say in historical moment where we really have a lot of global momentum, a lot of attention. And it is also important to note that small scale fisheries and also tis includes also tisner fisheries marine and inland fisheries and this also includes indigenous fisheries in this very broad category of small scale fisheries. So one of three major developments that we we can refer to in relation to strengthening small scale fisheries. One, the so called small scale fisheries guidelines. This is an international instrument that has been into endorsed by the FAO committee on fisheries in 2014. And it is a result of a very long and participatory development process that was really a bottom up process including also representatives of indigenous peoples. So this is a reference framework that has been endorsed and that we have all available as international community as guidance reference framework since 2014. In 2015, the, the new framework of the sustainable development. And within that framework arena in italics, because this is obviously limitation to what we're talking here about but what we are doing as a fear where the custodian for the indicator for this, this SDG target is to encourage countries to also consider the same target also for inland fisheries. And lastly, what brings us together here today also is the international year of artisanal fisheries and aquaculture that will be celebrated in 2022 under the leader of FAO. I would like to briefly tell you a little bit more about the small scale fisheries guidelines this is quite a comprehensive document that brings together responsible fisheries management but also more holistic development including chapters for example on social development employment and decent work on climate change and disaster risk, and also on gender equality for the first time in a dedicated fisheries instrument. Fisheries guidelines have a number of guiding principles that cut across the whole document and there are specific references in here that I just wanted to highlight that referred to specifically indigenous peoples. So you can see here, one of those is a principle to on on respecting cultures and you can see that here, it specifically refers to also including indigenous peoples and ethnic minorities. Similarly, the principle number six on consultation and participation calls to ensure active free effective meaningful and informed participation of small scale fishing communities, including indigenous peoples, taking into account the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples. And throughout these small scale fisheries guidelines, there is specific reference to the rights of indigenous people so I encourage you to to learn more about this and share the link to this document later. These guidelines are important for indigenous peoples because in the hundred paragraphs of which this document consists there are a number of provisions that speak specifically to the recognition of customary tenure rights. And these are particularly important obviously for inland fisheries and inland indigenous fisheries also. These guidelines value the promotion of traditional knowledge and they call for an involvement of decision making of all in planning in implementation and in monitoring of activities. And I also have highlighted here that they also call on gender equality in different cultural context with the preferential preferential treatment of women and indigenous peoples. So again, I invite you all to to learn more about this instrument if you didn't have a chance yet to do so. And on the International Year of Artisanal Fisheries and Aquaculture, I would just to briefly introduce you and let you know that we have a global action plan that was just endorsed by the International Steering Committee of the International Year on the 30th of March. We're not finalizing it and it would be made available on the website. This this plan has seven pillars that you can see on the lower part of this of this slide on environmental sustainability economic sustainability social sustainability governance gender equality food security nutrition and resilience. All of these pillars obviously are highly relevant also for indigenous peoples and this global action plan also specifically refers to two indigenous peoples across the different proposed activities that are in this plan. The plan will be available in the six official languages of FAO and again we invite you to to to use it and to refer to it and to help put it into action in the next year. This brings me to my very last slide the conclusions. As you can see there is global momentum for small scale fisheries at the moment the global framework for action exists. What is important to consider though is that inland fisheries in general is often left behind in discussions around small scale fisheries and related activities that receives less attention. So there's a big issue. Similarly indigenous indigenous fisheries even less considered it's often small scale fisheries often people think and work and and pay attention to the marine and the oceans. So there is there's a big responsibility for all of us to correct this and to make sure that in the celebrations of next year the indigenous inland fisheries is fully included and we all take advantage of this opportunity. Thank you. Thank you, Nicole for that and giving us an overview. It is now my pleasure to invite Mr young for an analyst that the lawyer no one is the chief of the FAO indigenous peoples unit. You're on please go ahead the floor is yours. So thank you so much. And Andy and thank you Nicole and allow me to, to think, of course, an organ but also Frank. Dali, Paul and Lisette for being with us today here is extremely important and I'm very happy that we are doing this very important event together allow me to share my, my screen. I would like to, I will try to be as sort as possible because I think it's very important to give the space to our colleagues can you see my screen and Andy. Yes, go ahead. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to be talking about the global hub on indigenous people's food systems, and why it is extremely important that we put fisheries at the front from at the forefront of these of the work that we are doing through the global hub. FAO has a work program with indigenous peoples that was drafted together with indigenous leaders in 2015. And besides free planning for consent indigenous women and indigenous youth. One of the most important issues that we were requested by indigenous leaders was to work on indigenous people's food systems. This work has been going on for several years already in 2004, the voluntary guidelines on the right to food highlighted the importance of land territory for indigenous peoples to have the right to food and their food security guarantee. In 2019 2013 FAO partnered with McGill University to analyze different indigenous peoples food systems, and many of them were fisheries food systems, practiced by indigenous peoples. And these for an organization like ours that is very much linked very often to agriculture, it is extremely important to have fisheries devoted the necessary attention within the food systems debate. Let's skip this slide because already Anne and Morgan talked about the Arctic high level expert seminar we have on indigenous peoples and Arctic fisheries it was extremely informative for many of us. And we learned about how many Arctic people are actually practicing the food systems of their ancestors. Now FAO is a knowledge organization. And over the years there's more than 70 technical publications about indigenous peoples, and several of them are about fisheries. We have for example analysis of fisheries in the Amazon river in different countries. I really invite you to link or to press that link and everything is part of the public service of the organization, all the publications and materials are available to all of you and they are free of charge. Now indigenous peoples food systems why it is so important. What when we launched at the global hub on indigenous peoples food systems. What we wanted was with indigenous leaders, scientists, research institutions to create a knowledge platform that could bring together all of this knowledge, and the principles of co construction of knowledge, but it's important, given respect to indigenous peoples knowledge at the same level as any other knowledge, particularly scientists, and this is a major breakthrough, because for many generations of scientists have been neglecting and marginalizing indigenous food systems. Now the global hub is a collective effort. We are very honored to have one as the summit parliament from Finland but also different indigenous organizations like a IPP, as well as universities and research institutions and this is what is unique about the hub the sharing at equal level and equal level of respect of the knowledge that each of the partners brings to the discussions. What's very important is that the global hub will be contributing to provide inputs to the United Nations decade of action on nutrition to the SDGs, but very important also to the UN food systems summit that will take place at the end of this year in 2021, and where again fisheries needs to be on the front phone. There's a number of activities that the global hub is doing but let me skip that. And the global hub was agreed through consensus at the high level experts seminar we did in 2018 with experts from all over the world, and I gave my thanks to the fisheries unit and the fisheries division where Nicole is working because they have been a fundamental ally on all the work that we are doing on indigenous peoples food systems. What are the next steps. Well, the global hub is drafting collectively a white paper a wipala paper on indigenous peoples food systems. This has received more than 50 contributions from all over the world, and it has been already accepted by the scientific group that is informing the UN food systems summit. So this is a very important contribution that indigenous peoples will be making to the summit and the principles of respect and co creation of knowledge. I'm releasing a publication in the coming weeks. It's about the indigenous peoples food systems. And here you can see at the corner come a while and later we said we'll be sharing with us. Some of the work that she has been doing in the field with this with this community in the Amazon river including Columbia. This are the different sites that have been already a analyze and we have done that with a with a group of different organizations, and some of the other ones that are ongoing we continue the research with different institutions across the world. Now, a, already an organ talked about the in Addis army food system in Finland, we cannot overemphasize the importance of fisheries in this system. 20% of the households in the Nellin region still eat in a traditional way and this in is is one of the main activities that ensures the food security of the community. Actually, in the in the in Addis army language, they even have several terms and several normal in their in their language several terms that allude to the behavior of some of the fish that they interact with and this is what is so important for the indigenous peoples and their food system. I'm not going to talk much about the Ticuna Kukama Yawa, because I know that the reset will be sharing with you a lot of the information that she has. So with that, I would like to close my presentation thanking you for the opportunity, and I want to take to thank Nicole and her unit, very often in a field that is a very large organization where we are asked of a model of collaboration with a technical division we always say that the way we work with fisheries is the way to go. So thank you so much Nicole for the constant the constant support and for putting indigenous peoples at the frontline of the work that if you is doing on food systems. Thank you and Andy for the use of the word over to you. Thank you, John. Thank you for your concise presentation and both to you and Nicole for giving us an overview on the work done by FAO. We now enter the panel discussion with I esteemed indigenous experts. I would like to request all the speakers to give us the insights on the importance of inland fisheries with indigenous peoples food systems and their territorial territorial management practices, but I will also ask specific questions to each speaker. Dr. Dali Sambodoro. Dr. Dara is inuit from Alaska, currently serving as the international chair of the Inuit Circumpolar Council. Dr. Dara, my question to you is, as the international chair of the Inuit Circumpolar Council, an active member of the UN triple C the UN climate change conference LC IPP, which is the local communities and indigenous peoples platform focus working What are some of the key factors about indigenous inland fisheries and climate change that you would like to see influence the global debate and propose actions coming out of the UN of the 2021 UN system food system summit and next year at the 2022 International Year of Artisanal Fisheries and Agriculture. Thank you. The flow is yours. Thank you very much. I have prepared a brief PowerPoint presentation and now given the time constraints. I'll, I'll skip over a number of the slides, but I would like to respond more concretely through the through the PowerPoint presentation that I have. You can see a screen. Perfect. Thank you very much. And apologies in advance if this is a bit disjointed I was invited to join very late and hope that this resonates with the participants here. I wanted to share this slide in particular because it's an example of an Inuit food system. It's from one of our regions in Northwest Alaska, and Anna Norgum spoke about the diversity of indigenous species items and in particular fish that they rely upon this image is based upon work that's been done in Alaska about what supports Inuit communities in this case seven communities and the diversity of both terrestrial and marine resources. Of course, throughout the Arctic region. There is use of Arctic freshwater, as well as diadromous fish those that live part of their life and then in saltwater and also in freshwater and this is the majority of the fisheries for our communities. But we encounter numerous problems in terms of the use of those resources and the imposed regulations that have been brought by the colonial forces that have grown up around us and some of these issues here express the difficulties that we have as far as management of the resources that we depend upon across Inuit and not it is very uneven, and I spoke about an example in Canada and the greater recognition and respect for the rights of indigenous peoples and their food systems including inland fisheries. For us it's very uneven from Chukaka and the Russian Far East to Alaska to Canada as well as Greenland where there's extensive control and management of the resources both for for hunting fishing and but also for commercial purposes. Of course external pressures and changes are being affected and the uneven and lack of coordinated approach to these questions create challenges for Inuit across our homelands. There is a lack of genuine co management. Oftentimes that term is utilized for for various different food resources, but it is rare that it actually takes place in a collaborative and cooperative fashion. There's also a lack of recognition of a holistic approach, meaning that managers, especially state managers or I should say just generally public government managers state managers and federal managers. They see species in a silo and never recognize the holistic approach that indigenous peoples carry forward in terms of their profound relationship with the environment. This long list of the impacts of climate change. This is an area that is important to indigenous peoples across the globe but for us in the Arctic which is warming more than two times more rapidly than other regions of the world. This is a long listing and it's not exhaustive in terms of the impacts throughout Inuit new not our homelands triggered by climate change and many of them are devastating and of course impact our food security. In addition, for especially fisheries in the marine environment, the impacts of Arctic shipping are are dramatic and very real we've been monitoring and observing impacts out on the coastal seas. And of course, everything is interrelated and the watersheds are impacted and our fisheries are there by impacted by the activity of Arctic shipping quickly turning to the indigenous peoples within the UN FCCC question that you've asked me specifically here again I won't go into the long details indeed individuals like Frank who offered us the opening ceremony. Just a few minutes ago has had a long standing history of involvement but just quickly Inuit and other indigenous peoples were involved in Earth Summit we started to recognize the impacts of climate change. And there's a long and detailed history about our involvement because we began to see the impacts of climate change. Decades ago, here I'll just underscore that there have been over 60 decisions adopted by the conference of the parties specifically. As well as the subsidiary bodies specifically related to indigenous peoples and indigenous knowledge. So this is a, this is an area where there is again a long history of our, our direct involvement in order to influence climate change policy. These are just some images of our colleagues within the conference of the parties 25 and, and elsewhere. There's key messages of indigenous peoples and I think this is something that should be looked at as a possible example for the FAO is the embrace the full embrace of indigenous peoples I know that the FAO has done extraordinary work in this area. And my main messages that the voices and the key messages of indigenous peoples should saturate the whole of the FAO, including the forthcoming global food system summit. And I'll go into this indigenous peoples platform in an in depth way but what is significant about this new constituted body the facilitative working group within the UN F triple C is the fact that there is equal representation between states and indigenous and more significantly, the indigenous peoples without any state member party oversight, have the ability and the capacity and the authority and the mandate to select their own representatives. In contrast, for example, we heard from an an organ as the chair of the permanent forum. Her nomination by indigenous peoples in the advance of her name had oversight in contrast within the UN F triple C it is indigenous peoples who determined by and for themselves, their representation within this particular platform. As a result, the facilitative working group which was to operationalize and realize the place of indigenous peoples within the UN F triple C is again the first UN constituted body with equal representation, but also significantly respecting the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous and again indigenous representatives able to self select their specific representatives. The objectives of the facilitative working group are to emphasize knowledge and in this case obviously indigenous knowledge to increase and enhance our capacity for engagement, but also recognizing that we can enhance the capacity of state party members and of course to focus on climate change policies and actions. I'm abbreviating a lot here because of because of time. As far the facilitative working group has put in place an initial two year work plan. There's a host of different activities, but I want to highlight activity for of which I was a co lead on behalf of the Arctic region for in collaboration with the government of Canada, focusing on increasing the capacity of state parties in the area of indigenous knowledge, trying to gain recognition of and respect for indigenous knowledge by state parties, but more specifically to ensure that state parties and countries ethically and equitably engage indigenous knowledge and not simply treated as something that can be dumped into a portal and grabbed and utilized out of context but real genuine respect for what indigenous peoples have to offer not only to the questions of climate change, but a whole diversity of issues that impact us as distinct peoples. Here again I won't go into this long listing but I think that for purposes of the FAO for purposes of this question of inland fisheries. So I'm going to start by explaining how we ourselves as indigenous peoples characterize our own food systems, recognition of a rights based framework for Inuit and Sami food systems, recognizing the role of indigenous knowledge. And understanding that we need right state safeguards in relation to indigenous knowledge. My desire is to ensure that FAO and indeed every UN, every UN agency and specialized agency removes this false dichotomy between the developed and the developing world in the context of indigenous peoples. For example in the United States, I live in one of the most affluent countries on earth, yet about 44 of our communities in Alaska do not have potable water. And this is a problem when we begin to see this false dichotomy in operation within the United Nations. I would also like to ensure that there is no continued conflating of the term indigenous indigenous peoples and local communities, largely because indigenous peoples have advocated since first contact for recognition of their distinct status as indigenous peoples and in every context including the FAO I think this is a crucial element. Finally, a key recommendation from the Arctic region is to ensure that there is some kind of a structure institution or platform for Arctic indigenous peoples within the FAO to ensure that we have an opportunity to introduce our specific views and perspectives about our food systems and ensure that they gain the recognition of the FAO as a global institution focusing on food security so thank you very much for this opportunity and sorry to have gone over time. Thank you Dr. Dara. Thank you for your excellent intervention. I will now call again to the floor Mr. Frank Ettawash Shik, sorry Frank, I'm not forgetting your name. Frank, from the experiences and leader leadership regionally and internationally, how do you see indigenous peoples governance shaping water systems resource management. And what opportunities do you see to expand the influence of indigenous peoples governance systems in the management of watershed natural resources, including that of inland fisheries. The floor is yours. Thank you Frank. Thank you. Yes, I'm. I appreciate the opportunity to speak today. I've got a slide on the screen right now that is the shows the Great Lakes, just to get some scale or in your mind. So if you drive from the southern part of the mitten down by Detroit the southern part there, all the way up to the northern peninsula and then all the way to the end of the Lake Superior. It's about an 18 hour drive. So it's a long, it's a long drive it's a great distance these are big lakes. And you see the background behind me and my picture, but you also see here we have this is this is that same shot. This is an example of the lake these are these are inland seas are huge lakes. And these are the lakes that my people live around. And we have lived here where we're, as you heard me sing the canoe song or canoe people. We've fished on the Great Lakes we fish in the inland lakes and site in up in the, in the peninsulas, and in the rivers. It's a, it's a really big part of who we are, and we realize, and I think part of this is to is to look at is to look at the idea of for us, the when we, when we were signing treaties, for instance, and here's a list of the eight principal treaties in the state of Michigan, and the blue areas the Treaty of Washington that's the area that I live in, right up in the lower peninsula of Michigan is is my homeland. And when my ancestors were working to sign treaties. We didn't look at the water and say those are our fish. When we reserve fishing rights, we weren't thinking of it as property, we weren't thinking of the fishes property. However, as we've tried to protect those treaty rights over the years, the courts have had to interpret that and they have interpreted as property. So consequently they ruled that we have a certain percentage of the fish from the lake in terms of property that that we can that we can catch. But when my ancestors looked at the water. They reserved the right to fish and what did that mean. What that meant was is they reserved the right to sing for the fish to dance for the fish to pray for the fish to catch and eat the fish. But to have a relationship with the fish. In other words, the fish are relate our relatives. And we take care of them they take care of us we have responsibilities to them and they have responsibilities to help feed us and we we share this this world, and we have this. It's not just fish but it ends up being all of creation that this kind of this view of responsibilities have. And so what we've maintained is that our treaty rights are actually relationship rights not so much property rights they are property rights but they're not property rights in the way we think of it, because we think of it as relatives. We all know that our food comes from the land and the water, and that they're inseparable. You know they're interconnected and inseparable, because what happens on the land affects the waters, and what happens in the water affects the land. So, because the fish, our fish are in the rivers and they're in the lakes and they're back and forth between them. We have salmon runs freshwater salmon runs here that they're come out of the lakes up into the streams the same with, with other types of rights. And so, as our, as, as my people have worked on this, we fought hard to protect these rights these relationship rights, and that has, we're in a little bit different situation than some of the indigenous people in other places, because we have a court and have these court established and, and, and litigated and have these, these rights that are there in the inland waters. We have a permanent consent decree in the US versus Michigan fishing rights case on inland hunting, fishing and and so the state conceded that our right exists forever we made a few concessions in the in this agreement, but we established how we were going to co manage the fishery. So the tribes in the Great Lakes, particularly those in the, in the treaty of in the lower peninsula and upper peninsula the blue area and the in the purple area up in the peninsula. These, these tribes have all have natural resource departments have fishery biologists we have conservation officers we have tribal courts, and we, we monitor our own citizens, and we also license our own citizens in terms of the catch. We work together with with the state and with with the federal government and determine what the total allowable catch will be through through fish sampling. And we figure out what the populations are figure what the total allowable catch is, and then that catches then split via these consent decrease in terms between the sport fishermen and the in the commercial. Indian fishermen. Now, we have a lot of native people, myself included, who who fished, you know, most of our lives, and I can say that I have never sport, I've never fished for sport. And most of our native fishermen had never fished for sport, they fish to eat. And that's because we're honoring that relationship we're not just, not just fishing as a sport. And so to me this is, this is an important part of that. And going to that question about how are we, how are we helping to manage tribes in our areas have. We have a, we have about. I think there's six fish hatcheries that are run by the tribes. My tribe one runs one and then there's two or three others in other areas around in the upper peninsula, and just in Michigan on the Great Lakes, where we're, we are raising various types of fish. We're trying to help restore fish for instance. There's, there are fish that are the Arctic grayling, for instance, is a fish that used to be in Michigan it was everywhere it was the main big fish here. But after the state was logged that the silt in the streams change the habitat where they could longer be there. And so we're trying to restore those fish into the streams and there's several different efforts to do that. We're also working to protect and restore the sturgeon. There's some pockets of lake sturgeon that have been that have continued to survive. But we're also trying to increase those and plant them again in rivers and lakes where they had not, where they have had gone away. These are the kind of things that we're doing in terms of protecting our relationship, because what we know is that that this this tie that we have that goes to the lake. As you see, it's, it's, you know, what it is is they say that that, you know, we that without water, we can't live. They say that water is life and all of the different things. Well that that's so true in terms of how we recognize and understand our relationships. The inland fisheries of the Great Lakes are are vital. We have commercial fishing, we have subsistence fishing, we fish with nets, we fish with hook and line. We sometimes fish. I haven't done this myself, but I know people who have gone out as the suckers were spawning in the spring along the shore, and they were able to reach right down and grab the fish right by hand and throw them up on the bank, and and catch fish in order to to can or to put away to eat. This is a big issue for us. The climate change has been another issue that we have to pay close attention to, because as we negotiated on the settlements on the treaty we had to not be species specific, because the, the species that live in our lakes are evolving and changing, because as the warms species are moving north, and some of the species will move right out of these some of our lakes, a white fish for instance were within one degree of Lake Michigan no longer being a natural habitat for the white fish. So I, I realized that in a limited time it's very difficult to get a great deal of this by wanting to give you just a brief talk about what it is that we've done, what we're trying to do maintaining thinking about climate change, co managing the resource, our relationship to the resource. When we look at the resource we don't think of it, extractively, or transactionally, we think of it as relationships. We help the fish the fish help us we were important to each other in order to survive. And so I think that's an important thing and I know that as I talk with other indigenous people from all over, not just on inland fisheries, but in oceans, they have a similar kind of feeling. And that feeling has to be captured. As we get into the, into the, into the thoughts about how do we deal with, with the small scale fisheries and particularly with indigenous fisheries is this is such an important part of who we are. And that, you know, we aren't as we as I've heard some of the fishermen say, you know, we are the fish, the fish are us, we are together. And that's an important thing for us to think about. So I look forward to questions later and I'm, I realize my time is pretty well done so thank you very much. Thank you Frank for for keeping to time, and your very insightful presentation. Thank you once again. Our next speaker is joining us from Thailand, Mr Paul St. Tua. Mr. Tua is from the Karen people and is founder of the KSAN indigenous organization. Hello, Mr. Tua. My question to you is, your organization KSAN works closely with the Karen people who carry out biocentric restoration or conservation conservation in the Salveen River on the border of Thailand and Myanmar. Please give us a brief description of this important work. My question to you is, though, as the world is watching with interest the events folding unfolding in Myanmar. Please give us an insight on how the Karen communities are coping with this conflict, and the militarization of ancestral territories. Thank you very much. The floor is yours. Thank you, Ananda, for the opportunities. Yeah, thanks for the questions. Maybe let me start with the kind of overall kind of framing of my presentation. Let me sort of provide the our indigenous, no, Karen, the worldview about fisheries about land and waters. First, and then let me share with you about the current experiences, the what's going on now. Yes, and thanks very much to Frank, who really has became really about the indigenous people experiences. And I think his presentations like reflect a lot of my people. So, you know, even I don't need to present and share our experiences. Thank you very much. So let me start with a poem, our current tar. We said that in current we said, but all tea, but a dirty, but all go back to go. This can be translated as we who drink water must take care of the waters. We who eat from the land must take care of the land. Only when we maintain this balance will our well being be sustained. So this tar poem presents two core values, tourism and balance. These values are ever present in the daily lives of indigenous Karen and have for centuries been at the center of our stewardship of our territory, our essential territory. In Burma, indigenous Karen firmly believe that our own health and prosperity is inseparable from that of the natural world around us. We have a duty to care for the animals, plants, months and forests as members of our communities, and to afford them the same respect we give each other. So similar to Frank, what Frank had said, the current have a holistic worldview. Everything is interconnected, complex systems, bonding together people, nature and the spirits living within. This is reflected in the traditional core management system, which comprises simultaneously an ancestral territory and the lives, livelihoods and social structure of the community living within its boundaries. Flowing through all of these and bonding it together is water. Water ceremonies play a key role in natural harvest and planted seasons and communities regularly meet on the banks of the lakes and waterways to hold prior ceremonies and celebrations. The health of local water systems play a significant role in the prosperity of local communities and it is not uncommon for communities from several core territories to work together to sustainably govern ponds and waterways. This includes the creation of fish breeding zones and the institution of local rules and regulations on fishing, planting and clearing of certain trees and access to riparian areas based on seasons and the natural life cycles of local wildlife. Current communities use their indigenous knowledge developed over generations to pursue adaptable and sustainable livelihoods and aquaculture systems that promote a healthy natural environment. Thus, in their water sources and waterways will support livelihoods and promote good relations and effective cooperation between communities. My organization, Keisan, has worked with several village communities in our territory, helping them to record the traditional rules and the regulation for their fish conservation zones and to map their territories. Since 2017, we have worked with about 15 communities, proposing more than 600 households who are seeking to strengthen their fish conservation zones or establish new ones. The majority of these fish conservation zones are located in watershed areas and make a vital contribution to the health of the landscape area. Community members have told us that after establishing the fish conservation zones, they saw the water quality in the area improved significantly and the populations and size of fish outside of the zones also increased. These zones have also contributed to the protection of watersheds as local rules and regulations have often stipulated that surrounding vegetation must be let intact to protect the waterways and provide safe areas for fish to spawn. Communities have begun to discuss the establishment of limited use of fishing zones where conservation and sustainable use are brought together. We also plan to establish larger learning and communication network to bring together scientific principles and indigenous knowledge to build resilience for the ancestral territories and livelihoods in the face of the growing global climate emergency. In Mutra District, this is being facilitated by the Salamine Peace Park, a community governed indigenous and wildlife conservation area that was established in 2018. At the core of the current approach to water is the promotion of life. Water and biodiversity living within it give life to Korean communities and it is thus vital to return their favor and protect them for decades. Though Korean communities have had to face up against the Myanmar government and military who view water only as a source of profit. Projects such as the 1200 megawatt Haji Dam planned on the Salamine River, one of the last free flowing rivers in Asia and a life bluff for current people and ecology of the region. These projects threaten irreversible damage to the sustainable fisheries and fish conservation zones of thousands of Korean families with no benefit in return. Unlike current approaches to water sources, these projects through ideas of realism, balance and life out of the window in favor of revenues. They also acted as a flashpoint of conflict, which has seen a resurgence, seen the Burmese military stole power in an illegal coup in the first of February. The prevention of the 2012 bilateral ceasefire agreement and the 2015 nationwide ceasefire agreement Burmese army have been conducting widespread targeted attacks on civilian populations. On the 27th of March 2021, a series of airstrikes were launched against villagers in Mutra district in the Salim Pizpa. This has been also followed by a large influx of troops into indigenous Korean territories and the firing of mortars into villages and agriculture areas. It is currently estimated that about 40,000 community members have been displaced from their ancestral homes. While there is a coordinated effort by current civil society and local government to support communities who have been forced to flee their homes, there is also growing need for regional and international support. It is vital at this time to condemn the actions of the Myanmar military and to support the efforts of legitimately elected government representatives and civil society, especially those from ethnic governance organizations and ethnic communities. The current have faced over 70 years of war and the challenges of changing global weather systems brought about by the climate change. Throughout these times, in the face of such adversity, ethnic current communities across our ancestral territories have continued to nurture and protect our lands, waters and forests. This knowledge offers an invaluable perspective on the integration of conservation and sustainable stewardship in the governance of inland waterways and watersheds. The current communities of Gaut Thule, our ancestral territory, demonstrate practices and livelihoods. There are sustainable, egalitarian, adaptable to new scientific developments and resilient to all kinds of pressures. We call on policy makers at all levels to take the lessons offered by our traditional tar, the poems I just mentioned above, to heart, to recognize and promote and protect the rights of indigenous peoples so that we as societies can share in in tourism, balance and life. Thank you very much and if you have questions, I'm happy to also elaborate more. Thank you Paul. Thank you for sharing so powerfully about the situation in Myanmar. We are with you and the current community in solidarity. Thank you so much for you for sharing this. Our final speaker is Miss Lizeth Escobar Elku, who is the expert documenter of the Tikuna Kokama and Yagwa peoples in the Amazon. Lizeth, you've been working extensively with the Tikuna Kokama and Yagwa people in Puerto Nareno. In your opinion, what motivated their change of fishing techniques some years ago to the point that they almost exterminated that fish species, and how did they later combine traditional knowledge with innovation to manage inland fisheries resources in Lake water systems. And secondly, please, if you could also talk a little bit about how to reconcile protection and fishing with Ramsar Convention protected area. Thank you, the floor is yours. Thank you so much and Andy and thank you to all the organizers for inviting me. It's a honor for me to be here. So let me please share my screen. Are you. We can see a screen. We can see it. Okay. Nice. So, to start. I want to mention. Okay, I'm Lisa Escobar and I'm from Colombia. I'm an economist and I've been working at the Amazon basin for six years now. And I don't know what's happening here so. Okay. So if you could make it big in the screen. Yeah, and then, and then we would yeah, perfect. If you could make it big in the PowerPoint. I think now. Excellent. Okay, now I can start so as some of the contributions from Ellen Fisher is to indigenous people's food systems are I want to make I want to mention two important points from this side. In the case of many indigenous people's that inhabit the Amazon, we find that fisheries provide them as source of food and their main animal protein, for example, in the case of Ticuna, Kocama and Java peoples in the Colombian Amazon. More than 70 70% of the of the protein they consume come from fishing activities. So fisheries provide them healthy diets and also more than 25% of their incomes come from fishing activities. And these incomes could be direct or indirect being the direct they the ones they get from fishing and consuming directly the fish. And they direct from the market because of the incomes they get in the market selling the food. So considering those considering this I have found that direct incomes are higher for communities who live far from local markets and urban areas, or in other words, the part that they live the most brutal they are the higher are the direct incomes and this means that they are even more dependent on fisheries. And also this is about incomes and economic dependency but I also want to mention that fisheries play an important role in indigenous culture and beliefs, and this is absolutely related to systems. I find a good example that I want to use to explain this idea, and this is related to the Ticuna peoples. And it turns out it turns on that they have they have a story about the creation of the world. And according to it, Ticunas believe that humans come from fish, they have their own creator, whose name is Joey, like their god. And one day, Joey went to fish and started putting the fish on the floor. And then they became humans and percolate the world. And that's how they explained the origin of humanity. But what is then the important point of this and this story, and this is just a brief story. And as a researcher, I can say that the moment I knew this story, but especially the moment I could understand the meaning was a breaking point in my research process and also in my learning process in the Amazonian basin, because I could understand better and clearer the way indigenous peoples understand the world and particularly the aquatic world in the case of the Ticunas. And the reason was that to realize that fisheries mean identity for indigenous societies in the basin. And identity is the base of a culture, which is even stronger and more complex than just understanding fishing production. And because it was about understanding the way they inhabit the world and the relationship with other elements of the ecosystem. And a second point is related to food sovereignty. And this takes me to territorial management and practices. Since sovereignty refers to the capacity of peoples to decide what to produce and how to produce, and both determine what can to consume. Fisheries are highly important within the food systems of a large number of indigenous peoples, not only because food providing, but because through the fisheries and its attributes is possible to determine how independent the community is from markets and also from markets. And it also allows us to determine how strong their own institutions are, and how well preserved their practices for food production are, for example, and individually I've been working on an ancient and some young fishermen do still use arrow to catch fish as we can see in the picture. And also women do recognize which kind of fish is good to treat specific diseases and so on. There are a lot of examples. But the point is that in fisheries we can find their cultural heritage, which determine how they manage their territories. Then moving through to the other questions, the second question, there are many drivers of changing indigenous peoples and fisheries. So for the case of the Colombian Amazon, there are some that I have here in the presentation in the list so I will tell like, I will tell a little bit about the process. So it brings me to some of the conclusions that I have after six years trying to understand this fishery and this society and their change over almost one century. These drivers of change are related to different phenomena in different scales from global and regional scales to local scale. So some of the phenomena are colonization as a regional phenomenon in the Colombian Amazon, and this is related to the integration of the territory of the Amazon to the international state. This was after the Colombian war in the 1930s. So the main changes came after the 30s close to the 40s because one of the main changes was related to social organization because indigenous peoples were organized in communities. Before that, the idea of communities, as we know today, didn't exist. So then having communities and colonization, the cash market appears in this region. And in this context, we can identify the changes related to the way they started using and managing fisheries after, especially from the 1960s and 70s when they started using nets. So they catch us critically increased. They started going to new fishing areas to find more fish. And this is about fishing techniques, but then about the use this new production were not for self consumption, but for providing the markets, the international markets, especially in both national and international, but especially international markets, and this generated over exploitation and directly affected indigenous peoples livelihoods. And finally, and the most important point or driver, it's, it's related to the role of government as a driver. And we consider that for that moment, the idea of development was based on increasing production without considering sustainability as we do today. And this was a global level phenomenon. And all these together create a new scenario to set the problem of overfishing. And that was evident only in 20 years of change from the 70s to the 90s. But finally, in the 90s, we started finally looking for a community based solutions in order to manage fisheries around the world as management, which is a very important framework because and we need to develop to continue developing this because it involved all the stakeholders from communities to NGOs, academic and government. But the most important about this kind of frameworks is that open the great possibility to hear civil society and this case voices and recognize their contributions on the context of sustainability. And at the time that we protect their rights. Finally, and about how to reconcile to reconcile protecting and fishing with everything around some comeback around our convention in protected area, the place where I've been working is a is a system of lakes that are really important, not only because of their functions in the ecosystems but also for people that have ecosystems. So what is really important is that the change that is happening is in a global scale. So the world started moving towards sustainability, which give us all hope, because we have been trying to recognize that we were not doing right before, and we are now moving towards new scenarios more inclusive and we're looking not only for developing economies, but also we are looking for working to ensure social environmental justice. And having said that, and we are creating different strategies and policies in order to move towards us to us to a more sustainable world. So one of those strategies is related to the protection of the ecosystems around the world, especially the ones that we consider more important because of the diversity they have. And in this case we have the Amazon basin, which is well known as a region, mainly because of their natural resources, but also it's important to recognize their cultural diversity. In being this region so recognized, we want to protect this ecosystem, but I have been insisting on the idea that policies to protect ecosystems need to include peoples and in the case of the Amazon and indigenous peoples, we need to listen to their voices to realize what are the ways they want to protect their ecosystem, because for the world probably it's important to protect diversity and nature, but when we go to the site of indigenous peoples we find that for them it's about living and about culture and about their identity. So finally, when we have all these stakeholders together, we need to ensure that our efforts are together going on on the new scenario of sustainability, in the creation of more inclusive strategies where we all can find a way. So the clue here is to work all together and a good example is the work that FAO has been doing, as John mentioned, some examples and the big efforts that they are doing to bring all the ideas and to materialize in different publications and show the world how important the indigenous peoples' contributions are. And that's it from my side. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Lizette, and thank you for giving us an insight into your very interesting research. Thank you. We will now move into the Q&A session because we are running out, we are running behind time, we will shorten the session. I kindly request, if you have a question to please raise your hand, your zoom hand, if you would like to ask the panelists a question. To raise a hand button is on the bottom right hand corner of your screen under Reactions. This way I'm able to see it on my screen. When asking a question or making a comment, please identify yourself, your organization, and to which speaker the question is intended for. Thank you. I open the floor for questions. Yes, Jan, please go ahead. Thank you, Andy, and thank you for allowing me to ask a question. I wanted to ask Anna Norgan. I think Anna is still with us. But in many ways, also perhaps Frank could help us with the answer and Paul, I mean FAO has, we've been working as an agency on fisheries for several years, and it has a very powerful fisheries team and divisions and units. So what is that we could do differently? What will indigenous peoples like that FAO could do both from the indigenous peoples unit that I'm coordinating, as well as from the fisheries division? What will you welcome us doing differently to support your work? This is Frank. I can answer. Anna, I see you just came on. Go ahead. Thank you, Jan, for the question. It is a really good one. I've been now comparing this international year of farm fisheries to this another organization of the, for example, the UN Food Systems Summit. And there for the Food Systems Summit, there is a clear roadmap for indigenous peoples to prepare for the year for the summit. And I was thinking that maybe it's possible for your two units in cooperation to make some kind of roadmap for indigenous peoples to propose and contact those, as you have now done, contact those who are working, indigenous peoples who are working with fisheries. And then have some same kind of rights-based approach also to preparing for the next year, because as I and so many of the indigenous peoples have been stating that it's the rights to use the waters. They are crucial for our well-being. So that would be greatly appreciated if we could together formulate a plan for conduct or to head to the next year. Thank you. I'd just like to add that, you know, in the Great Lakes, at least in Michigan and the areas where I'm from, on the U.S. side of the border, we have the Chippewa Ottawa Resource Authority and the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission. Both of them are focused on fishing on the Great Lakes and also fishing in the inland lakes area, exercising the treaty rights. And I believe that these organizations would have a lot to contribute, but they, in my reaching out to the Chippewa Ottawa Resource Authority, they were unaware of this process and this project and what's going on. So I think that there needs to be more awareness, at least in the Great Lakes area of the United States, that what's going on with this process. And I think there's opportunity for some guidance to come from these folks that have done an immense amount of research and a lot of work in trying to help preserve not just the rights for the fishing, but also preserve the fish for all the coming generations. Thank you, John. And thank you, Annie and Frank. Would anyone else like to ask a question, please raise your hand. I can ask a question from the chat in the meantime. This question is for you on from Sebastian Matthew from ICSF. It will be good to know how FAO defines food systems and how do you see this definition in the context of indigenous peoples, small scale fisheries and aquaculture. So that is a difficult question to answer. There is some of the work that has been done by the high level panel of experts defines three main types of food systems, commercial, modern, and then traditional. I think that I am leading in the FAO indigenous peoples unit with technical divisions like fisheries forestry and other colleagues in FAO is that we are convinced that indigenous food systems do not fit these three definitions and that indigenous peoples food systems. We are pretty much along of what Fran has told us here today, and along what Annie and Paul and other and that example have shared with us as well as Liz said there is an intrinsic cosmogony from indigenous peoples that see a level of respect and reciprocity with the fisheries that we don't see, even in some traditional fisheries very often. So the indigenous peoples food systems is extremely distinct from all the food systems and it encompasses it first it has a systemic approach on the way the territory is managed integrating the spirituality cosmogony natural resource management, as well as the socio economic aspect, but very important is culture, traditional language. And I think what we see that either language or culture suffers, or traditional knowledge is no longer transmitted we do see those indigenous peoples food systems are deteriorating and I think Liz said give some examples on how, when the food system gear towards market, there were changes. The other very important difference from indigenous peoples food systems with other definitions at least in FAO is the fact that they integrate both food production and food generation techniques. If we consider fisheries hunting and gathering food generation techniques, where the emphasis in the is in the bioscentrism and the capacity of mother earth to generate food is very different from agriculture livestock rating and other activities are food production. And so this is why that there's not an easy answer for that question in the sense that we are supporting indigenous peoples food systems because they are different from traditional commercials and modern food systems, even though they serve elements with all of these food systems. Sorry for the long answer than Andy please forgive me. Thank you very much. I would like to ask if there are any last questions as we have come, we are running out of time so I can take one more question, and then we will close the event. If there are no more questions I would like to invite to the floor, Mr manual brand. Mr branch is the director of the FAO fisheries division. Mr Baran flows yours. Thank you very much. Thank you and the participants dear panelists. Well what a fascinating study events have been glued to my screen throughout and now I have the great honor of closing it. We are thanking you all for joining us today and for sharing your knowledge in this discussion on the land fisheries. The event has provided important insights on the fundamental importance of indigenous peoples inland fisheries, not just for healthy food systems, but for healthy societies. Mr Barwageshik and Miss Escobar said, the fish looks after us and we look after the fish. Your world views and approaches to conservation and management have much to teach us. You have highlighted the techniques you use to generate food in harmony with nature, how you combine fishing and food gathering, shifting cultivation with hunting. The combination of techniques is the basis of indigenous peoples food systems, and these are the systems that have enabled you to preserve the large majority of the world by diversity in your territories. All I say, gathering, hunting, fishing and farming are integral to indigenous peoples food systems, but these activities are dependent upon the collective rights and access to communal resources, including lakes, lands, forests and seas. Many of us often talk about food production, but not often do we see food systems across the planet as food generation systems. This difference between food production and food generation must not go unnoticed. I have to say that we are seeing a change in perception problems remain for sure but we are all coming to realize that healthy and well functioning ecosystems are central to food security, and that biocentrism, a political point of view that extends inherent value to all living things can be a powerful tool to address, for example, the effects of climate change, as Dr. Dora and Mr. Tua and others demonstrated today. One of the main characteristics of indigenous peoples knowledge is its holistic dynamism developed by hundreds of years of observation, adaptation and oral transmission from one generation to another. Knowledge is like a large library, which we cannot lose as we face the growing threat of climate change. I want to acknowledge that indigenous peoples led research, advocacy, policy and customary governance are increasingly recognized in fisheries management, despite the many challenges that remain. More transdisciplinary, holistic and collaborative approaches are needed, and this requires broader and more fundamental changes enacted by concrete and achievable actions from states, from policymakers and from fisheries stakeholders. It is in this context that I refer to a political declaration approved by the FAO Committee on Fisheries in February this year, where the members of FAO committed to promote policies that support and recognize the contribution of small scale fisheries and aquaculture to food security, to employment and to income and call for improvements in data collection systems, especially from small scale and artisanal fisheries, which obviously include indigenous peoples. Furthermore, I want to celebrate the work done by indigenous peoples and the global hub on indigenous peoples food systems in drafting the white paper, we follow on indigenous peoples foods food systems, which has been referred to in today's presentations. This paper provides evidence based information about the sustainable and resilient elements of indigenous peoples food systems. Inland fisheries are one of these elements and the great system of knowledge of indigenous peoples around it too. The recognition of these food systems as a game changing solution for the UN Food Systems Summit will be key to preserve and to promote these knowledge systems and ancestral fisheries practices. As you know the UN declared 2022 as the International Year of Artisanal Fisheries and Aquaculture under the lead of FAO. The UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues is part of the International Steering Committee of this important event, and the global action plan for the year which was just endorsed by this committee includes specific reference to indigenous peoples. I invite you all to creatively contribute to ensuring that the International Year of Artisanal Fisheries and Aquaculture becomes a milestone for raising the visibility and increasing the understanding of indigenous peoples inland fisheries around the globe. With that, Anandi, I thank the UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues for organizing this event to all the speakers for your insights, and to all of you for your attention. Have a very good day or night depending on where you are. And please stay safe. Thank you. Many thanks, Mr. Burdant. And with that, before we close the event, you would like to take a group photo so if everybody could please turn on the cameras. My colleague will take the photo. I would like to give my sincere thanks to all the speakers for your time and wisdom shared today. It has been an enriching experience and we look forward to continuing these dialogues. I would like to also thank Paul especially we've kept him past midnight in Thailand so thank you Paul for for making the effort to stay as to stay up for this event. I would also like to thank my colleagues, Louisa and Mikayla especially who's been helping me with this with this side event, and to Yon and Nicole for their guidance. Thank you everybody and good night. Good night. Bye.