 Hello lockdown listeners and welcome to episode 90 of the Agile pubcast Still a remote Agile pubcast as it stands. I'm afraid so me and Jeff gathered in our homes Opened a collective drink and had a chat last night About what was going on for us at the moment during this lot at these lockdown times For me it was a chance to prepare and I talked a bit about the idea of hitting the flow Yesterday when I was actually pretty busy immersed in one particular task and Jeff was prepping for a workshop based on feedback So we had quite a lengthy discussion about giving and receiving feedback and how we adjust our behaviors based on those things We hope you're well. We hope you're keeping safe during these times And we really do hope we'll be back in the pub for our 100th episode in 10 episodes time So with the with that in mind we'll get straight on with it. Let's play the jingle friend Hello again, Jeff. That's smooth There's no no technical problems at all there was there on this Which isn't this is just the first time that we've dialed in tonight. We haven't had any technical issues at all Playing that just press play Aerosmith I've got three lockdowns. I just left mate. I'm wondering I was a Considering tonight whether it's a centreline sign like this. We've got three podcasts three remote podcasts left before We'll be back in the pub. I'm down that but you never know Well, we can we can get together in groups of six or we could we could do it in a park We could go. Yeah, go drink in the local park and break a number of bylaws. I imagine podcast Yeah I've got number three. I've got number six, I know I've got number Ten three six ten Hmm Like a threes a Three let's have a look. Oh, this is different because it's not a bottle opener It's a screw top Interesting. Oh, this is a bridge farm Somerset cider From East Chinook in Yovil Somerset six point five percent Is there anything to do with the Chinook helicopters? I don't know actually maybe it is Bridge farm has been making award-winning artisan cider for more than 20 years It's a very simple label. There's not a lot on it, but I'll crack it open. It doesn't even even give you much Description about what it is just has a well-rounded cider Well, you'll have to do the description for them what with my It's a bit ice in there as well so apologies for any cider connoisseurs. I'm drinking it with ice Because it's very hot Well, there we go, it's not particularly fizzy I wouldn't say almost still there was hardly any I suppose it probably would be the screw top but Yeah, but a bit a bit of a Cloudy kind of residue tastes quite rough a bit bit badgery Yeah, but a Bit dirty now. I'm not dirty, but earthy earthy is the word My this face if you can see I'll see only you and our patreon viewers can see my face Winsing on a wincing face. It's like the face you make when you've licked in that licked a battery. Yes I was drinkable one of the bottom of the batch. No, I've got victory ale. Oh, yeah I'm not really celebrating any victory in particular, but it's from Bateman's Apparently have been craft brewers since 1874. Oh It's a bit a bit sort of Golden brown ready brown text your life son Yeah, let me down with my mind. She runs. You've got no idea what I'm talking about you. Yeah I Texting viewers if you know what Paul's talking about hashtag all the brown, you know, that's um Sort of a cool bitter a little bit of That's a little bit of spice in there Oh, but it's not chilly or anything. Maybe I Don't know. It's a bit of bit of seasoning Peppery Maybe maybe maybe maybe yeah, um a little bit fruity Yeah, that's me actually isn't it a bit spicy bit fruity Yes very much so very much so And how are you on this fine June evening? It's June now It is yeah, happy days pinching a punch. Yeah I'm tired actually I'm tired. I didn't select well the last couple nights is hot Yeah, very hot Yeah, we all haven't having a Rather long dry spell which is great While you're at home because you know, you can spend a lot of time outside But you can't see anyone so you spend a lot of time with the south and your family outside The wettest February on record Yeah, I mean by far broken all records by a long way Yeah, the latest May yeah Complete extremes Very un-British weather Yeah, we live in strange times. We certainly do Valley there on the old camera. Well, I'll push my chair into a little bit further a bit extra for the uh for the patient Just one x not three Yeah, struggling with the old hay fever as well as fully kicked in for me now Yeah, I can see you're looking a little bit red. You've been blowing it a lot, I guess Yeah, you'll see um, and I apologize if you listen as if you hear me Snort and sniff a bit more than usual Um, but now a bit bit bunged up and a bit uh, runny nose That's something I've always been grateful for not having hay fever yeah Something I don't I kind of don't realize how irritating it is. I forget how irritating it is until I have it I'll only have maybe two three weeks and it'll obviously the that type of pollen that I'm allergic to will Will pass and then um, oh largely for the the remainder of the summer be fine Cool So, yeah, we've launched the new challenge I suppose we should talk about it Yeah, we don't want to give too much away, but we should let people know what's um What we've been up to yeah, so um for those of you that Are subscribed to my youtube channel. You may remember you may remember paul Featuring as one of the contestants in a little game. Shall I put together? What would it have been? Two years ago But then it might be further than you think it might be three, but I'd say two Yeah, maybe a couple of years ago Good fun. It was called the scrum mastery challenge Set a few agile coaches and my daughter at the time When she stole my daughter Which are good That uh that that we somehow managed to relate back to A conversation about agile, uh, so taking photographs and painting pictures and all sorts so Yeah, I decided that we were going to resurrect that paul and I and we've got our new contestants We've given them their first challenge And next week's episode we will be discussing their submissions You looking forward to that? Yeah, it should be fun. Um, so we'll we'll play you back a few clips of what they did Obviously we'll describe the the task in a lot more detail, but um Should be fun. It gives us um, yeah, so Don't want to go worry. We don't want to tell people what it is But really don't want to tell people what it is because um, I think that was Maybe proven advantage or disadvantage to people who are actually doing that challenge, but they will again that will be Revealed next week as to who the challenges are jeff Yeah, but what we can tell you is is a truly global challenge It's a global challenge. Yeah, and how many contestants are there jeff? Well, there's seven countries represented Seven countries represented. Yes, so we've got The u.s in canada over thar We got the uk We've got singapore india new zealand um, germany How many have I said that's probably seven um, yeah, so It's like our own version of the olympics jeff. That's how that's how i'm looking at it We couldn't have the olympics this year for obvious reasons, so this is our like scrum mastery agile version of the olympics. Okay, I haven't thought of it like that, but that could work You know, I'm not a big fan of the olympics, so don't you I seem to remember you had you grumbling about it a few years every four years Why? Well, there's just a lot of nonsense I mean the olympics really and I won't go on a long time about this because it's not agile but The uh, it should just be running throwing and jumping. That's it. Well, that's what it used to be, isn't it? Exactly Getting on a bike and having 20 different swimming competitions for each bash break I might have you Maybe a bit of wrestling for fun Well, that was that was one of the original sports, wasn't it? Yeah Yeah Are you gonna get down off your high horse now? Is that it? Is that all you yeah? I'm not I'm not I'm not really I did um, oh We've lost paul Paul left How do you go? What happened? Oh, I see you disappeared Gremlins I'm back Well done Now I read somewhere that um something like Only 13 of the top 100 ever 100 meter race times have been run by somebody clean and they've all been usain Bolt or something like that Now every other apart from usain Bolt every other top Sprint time has been associated with a drug cheat. Yeah I do think there was someone saying they should have a dirty olympics where you can take whatever you want Just just just just see if somebody can jump over a house or something Yeah How did we go on? Oh, yeah, it's my fault wasn't I said the the scrum after olympics Yeah, so I think once once the contestants have finished their challenges I think we'll open open that challenge up To to everybody else and see if they can do any better or if they're useful to them, you know It might not be a bit of fun. It might be some Some crazy Logic behind these challenges. I certainly think the first challenge Which was largely your idea was a really good one because there's There's there's there's a there's a whole vagueness to it Which is part of the beauty of it and will people will see that next week as to But yeah, that that was really um Really quite quite well done. I think we should see some good results fingers crossed who knows My my diaries ass might it That's with everything that we try Yes But we're here for the people. What have you been up to my friend? um kind of I think today I achieved what what is known commonly in the trade as the flow today. Oh, really? Yeah, you had a good day in so much as um Time passed me by No, so much so it was noted by my family that I didn't normally I'd stop for lunch with the family see And today I looked up at the clock and it was like quarter past one And they were just about to go out and thought I haven't eaten lunch yet So it's one of those days that I found myself in the zone I was re um rewriting stroke redesigning stroke. Um reapplying my Certified Scrum Masterclass on Miro. So that was part of the um The tasks of this week, but I I've pretty much done it all in one day Largely through that that I that's state of just getting it done and getting it done and getting it done Don't like cramming house for seasons in one day. Yeah, that's everything. Yeah And uh, no it's good and um I unearthed One of our old exercises that you might have forgotten about. Oh, yeah Um, which I think will work quite well online, which is offering the off-site customer Do you remember that as a challenge? I remember the title It's basically remote shaped drawing exercise. So yeah, so I thought I've um might have to dig that one out And uh dusted it off a bit And I think I'll try that next week um writing requirements in a Distance in a remote format. So you've got to write a set of requirements for To recreate a drawing and see how people Interpret or maybe misinterpret those those instructions. So that was good. I've um thrown that one in there and a few other different things Yeah, it should be fun. So yeah, it's part of Felt quite, you know, I just felt like I achieved something today. I didn't get out the house, which was bad So by the time five o'clock came along it's been sat in a seat all day So that made me a bit sad, but I managed to have a turn around the garden I've watered the plants That was my exercise for today Yeah, what plants you've got growing? Well, if we got Jeff we can see out the window. Well, you can but I actually can't remember but um Oh, why baby? We planted quite a lot of stuff like new trees and things last year. Yeah, I don't really care actually No People don't want to hear about plants move on Okay Yeah, okay feedback Okay What have you done wrong? No, no, no, no I've been doing about feedback today. Oh, right. Okay, right. I've been creating a video about feedback because I've been doing Doing a team coaching session tomorrow Okay for a team and they wanted the topic of feedback Okay, they want to get better at giving and receiving feedback Uh, so I created a video on it and they can practice giving me some feedback on that video So they can give me some bad feedback They give me some good feedback and we can work out why it's good and why it's bad and why it's difficult to To give feedback why it's difficult to sometimes receive feedback Um why it's important So it's going to be a feedbacky day tomorrow So quite meta feedback on the feedback set on the feedback video Did you deliberately put things in there that you think this will get some feedback? Or was it that you just I'm not excellent No, I um I didn't really um Because it's just the first version so every version every first version is always going to need some feedback Um without blowing my own trumpet that I'll always do some one little good thing And there'll always be some absolutely shocking things that I've done that need changing so No, there'll be plenty of opportunities without me even trying Yeah How long's the video? Uh 10 minutes actually, okay And it's just is it talking jeff? Is it is it uh animated cartoon thing? Okay, took me ages But it'll be reusable. Yeah Excellent Did you sound quite busy This is jeff Yeah Yeah, I am actually I did I had a list of about Five things I wanted to get done today, and I think I've done two of them Which I don't feel good about But there you go Um not through wanted trying Not through slacking Some days that happens some days you get in flow like you and you're knocking them out all over the place. Yeah And uh some days you don't yeah Some days you're dry as a bone Um, yeah, I don't know what it was about today Just um, I started yeah, I didn't start to like 10 maybe now that's 9 10 Um, but just felt like I think a lot of it is with me is again about procrastinating. This is again something I I probably should have started or maybe should have been completed a week ago a week ago, maybe but that kind of procrastination Streak in me just things out. I can wait. It can wait can wait But why would I have been Why would a week ago have been better? Well, just because I could say for the I could say it was one less thing to have to do this week Whereas this week I've already got Looking at my backlog three three or four fairly chunky things to do So, you know question and now tonight right now I know for the benefit of the tape, it's like five to nine at night, but it's quite late anyway But I'll be quite tired tonight. Not that's not a bad thing But I if I was working now, I'd probably I'd make a lot of mistakes and I was just typing messages to my um someone earlier one of my friends earlier and I I put in like three type typos in it, which I think I would never have done that ordinarily I apologize for my bad spelling Which is probably down to my tiredness now, but Yeah, just kind of part of me thinks maybe I hacked through a little bit to there'll be something that comes up next week That I've done today that I think I should have spent more time or had I done had I started a week before that wouldn't I'd have noticed that this week Yeah, that's my logic Yeah, when do you need it by? Well last response last last responsible moment friday, I suppose Okay, record on monday. Yeah, so you've still You've still got time. Yeah But uh Yeah, that's um one thing done today one thing one less thing to do tomorrow My parents are coming to visit tomorrow really in the garden as just uh to state First but illegally they're going to be in the garden at a distance two meters apart. How they doing there, right? Yeah, they're all right. I think yeah, they're um probably um, yeah, I think they're getting a bit bored my dad I think my dad's just venturing out everywhere just to get away from my mom that's uh Even though you probably should stay at home more But no, I think that well to be fair I shouldn't joke because their health is pretty good and they haven't had any scares so they're um They're pretty good Okay, would you say you're better at giving feedback than you were? How am I better at giving feedback than I was? I think Yes, yes In some circumstances Um Locked down as a good example of um How that affects my ability to give feedback And probably receive feedback um in stressful family situations recent times um and apology just this evening, uh apologizing for my um For some of my actions or how I was how I went about a certain conversation with my daughter. So Um Probably not in in professional circumstances. I hope yes Um, sometimes I've struggled in the last few weeks Hmm due to pressures at home There is a difference though, isn't there is You can you can tackle things a lot more professionally at work than you can at home. Um I try you know, I try to um Practice what I preach though, which is sometimes I get I think I just get a bit either complacent stroke lazy stroke A bit um Careless, I suppose What I should do a bit more mindful of it Only you better at receiving feedback than you were I think so. I think probably I'm More aware I'm again, this I think we had a conversation with this at the social distance in last week, but Um, I can remember getting some feedback In one of my first ever training courses I was It was it was a real shock to hear at the time and it was a really um Something that stuck with me almost ever since and I can remember exactly what the feedback was and it was probably because I was I was very nervous stroke raw at the time about What I was doing. I think now that I'm a lot more confident and comfortable with what I do um, I'm also Not that I would ignore feedback, but I'm perhaps I'm just more used to Hearing it and more used to knowing how I can deal with it rather than not knowing how to deal with it myself personally So to to to give people the backgrounds when I did one of my first ever csm courses with jeff actually, um Outside of the comfort of my company at the time Which is British telecom one of the guys at the end of the course actually if he'd done it at the start It wouldn't perhaps what I might have completely um derailed me, but he said at the end of the course um, Paul just You know what? Um, just just just to just to lay it out straight. He says you you say, you know all the time you know, you know you know, you know and um Obviously irritated this guy and he said the words he said was you're not as he said was it you know was okay It might be okay. You say okay all the time You're not Tony Montana. Okay. Okay He just can that those words Tony Montana, which obviously for Jeff's benefit is from the film Scarface. Um, I thought it was an american football That's Joe Montana Um No, it was um That's just that's resonated with me and I suppose I don't check myself now what I'm doing it But it's that kind of feedback at the time that really hit home for me And I was probably very careful for the next few courses on how much I used it Come in you remember what went through your mind When you were processing that I think it was just um inferiority it was just about um I suppose imposter syndrome and a little bit of no people Seeing how nervous I was okay exposing a vulnerability or a habit or a deficiency that I I didn't want people to Even though I probably was unaware of it It was the fact that someone's noticed something that that I do irritates them. That's quite that's That hurts that's um That's obviously Pissed them off but equally it's a A slow on my ability As a trainer at the time So I did take it personally You know, that's something that I've done which is upset you and I'm a massive people please or I don't like upsetting anyone so So you you'd assumed that you'd upset him And you'd taken it personally Not just about your ability as a as a trainer, but you and I I'd be surprised If he was upset No, I looking back now. I don't think he was I think he was he was just a very um the way he Gave the feedback was quite Vigorous with quite um, what's the words? Not aggressive, but certainly uh, uh, what's what's the word I'm thinking of like kind of fast and not flippant, but Direct assertive. Yeah Yes, no, yeah assertives worry a better way. It wasn't aggressive. It's just quite direct and very you do He I can't remember what nationality was but it wasn't it wasn't I certainly wasn't a british. He wasn't a british, um member of the cause but very much direct To the point almost a little bit um A mockery Which probably upset me a little bit more a little bit and I don't think it was intentional, but there was a trying to perhaps make light of it, but in a direct and Um slightly mocking way. Yeah And for me as a as a junior nervous First time I've been outside the comfort of bt. That was all a bit too Scary That's I think yeah, that's one of the things that I was Pulling out today in this topic around feedback is that the for me the one the biggest barrier with regards to feedback is How much we personalize things and the personalizing it is good Because I don't just want to give you some bland feedback. I actually want to give you something that's actionable for you and meaningful for you and specific to you But equally it's not about you as a person. It's just your behavior your action rather than your person your your character and We do we do tend to overanalyze we do take things personally it damages our ego um And we know that when we're giving people feedback. So we don't want to upset them But really what we're trying to do is we're trying to save ourselves Because we don't want that feeling of having upset somebody then Once we can get past that It's really useful. Um I always find it interesting that Generally speaking the the more successful people prefer What you you would say an inverted commas is negative feedback That rather than positive you're doing well. You're doing well. They want to know how to get better Hmm Whereas people who are much more insecure want reassurance so when when someone Gives you some feedback now at the end of the class What goes through your head differently? Um, I think so again recently this, um thinking back to one of the first classes I did in, um lockdown So I'm very much learning how to structure stroke time box stroke facilitate a two-day online class And the feedback was Indirect, but it was via a chat. It was via a chat window and someone said, um These sessions are too long. Can we take can we take more breaks? It was something like that around the length of the sessions that and I think The I still have the initial reaction of I wouldn't say panic, but certainly, um increase of stress Probably because that's a slightly more uncertain environment. I'm not used to online training yet either but certainly the time it took me to Rationalize it was a lot less. Yeah, so I was able to more methodically say okay, so That's fair enough and accept it but then say what's the It's not about me. I didn't probably didn't think about this at the time, but How could I just fairly easy? It's easy to remedy that that's something that it's not it's a different type of feedback I suppose it's not about me talking too much It's just about the fact that the actual session itself is is too long. So I think I reacted um, and didn't dwell on it probably Um, I reacted a lot quicker and adjusted things a lot quicker Try not to even example was someone's given me direct feedback No It might come to me a little bit, but again, we tend to dwell on. Yeah, when you think of feedback We tend to dwell on negatives, but we've had quite a lot of Say we um I think it was someone gave us feedback, didn't they It was during maybe it was during the um lean agile brighten thing. I think it was just um eddie at the start of the The start of the talk just said Um, thank you for continuing to put out stuff content During lockdown and I'd never stopped to think about that and the thought, you know, well, that's just quite that's quite nice and that um It's nice to hear that that um You know with we're doing a good thing. We're doing the right thing or you know, we're keeping people entertained We're certainly keeping eddie entertained. Yeah, or I'm keeping him Uh keeping his walk to work or whatever it might be his day. They did walk a bit more Thought provoking. Hmm. There's things like that. It's um, it does make you feel Positive feedback kind of reassurance that I don't suppose that's part partly looking at me as well Yeah But I think particularly at this time When we don't I think we've said this before during lockdown is when you don't feel like you are In an environment where you can get a lot of positive feedback every little bit of feedback you get You've got to take take notice of and And take stock of Yeah And not all feedback is useful. I mean, it's all subjective at the end of the day You know, it's some it's one person's opinion perspective it's not fact and I know people that take feedback too quickly There's some people who completely ignore it but The one of the mouse so this is a good example. I'll try and find it Word for word where would I find it keep keep talking but there was there's a classic piece This is a so I'll give you an example of a piece of feedback I had that I immediately discounted And I'll explain why but keep talking I'll try and find it in the in this If I can Most people are giving you feedback with positive intent because they want you to be successful And it's and it's hard for them Not most people find giving feedback difficult as we we're we're talking about already So my first reaction is it actually took them quite a bit of courage to give me some feedback Um, so even if I actually when I when I reflect on it think Do you know what I'm going to ignore that I'm going to choose to reject that piece of feedback as invalid I would still appreciate the time and the effort that they put into Providing me their perspective And at least it's going to think about something Um, of course, there are some people Sometimes who have an agenda To their feedback And so it's worth critiquing as they say the credibility of the witness Before uh before just blindly Incorporating their feedback into your new world view or your new view of self That's that's as much as a monologue I know I know you do very well. You do very well I'm I think I'm a listener and a talker ladies and gentlemen I'm a lover and a fighter Hang on a minute. I think I found the course Was it with me? No, it was on my own I did some interesting stats. Actually, I'll give you two more stats that I found Um, I always remember one was from the Harvard business review, but I couldn't tell you what year some It wasn't that long ago but basically said If you're if you're a leader a manager somebody the more you listen The more effective people think your feedback is or the or the Yeah, the better people that think you are at giving feedback So it's not so much about what you say It's how much you listen I think the the lesson there is the more you listen the more rapport you get therefore the more respect they have in your opinion Um, and the more it means something to them And the other was that there's a there's a big correlation between leadership effectiveness And the amount of feedback that those leaders ask for Right the more feedback you ask for as a leader the more effective you are likely to be Yeah Now we can believe that and those are two I think really quite important important things So the bad news is I can't find it, but um, the good news is I can largely remember it um, so It was one of my it was a public course in Bristol. Um, and I changed rooms and the room wasn't great Um, it was quite small and I think there was about let's say 16 people in the room And they were on two tables and it was a bit of a squeeze eight people per table Um, we do some introductions um I I believe um, I got someone's name wrong or I I mispronounced the name is it's an american laden and I've mispronounced the name um And then largely this lady stayed silent for the whole course and and pretty much didn't say anything and didn't really contribute And only when I got the feedback So I did some written feedback at the end by a questionnaire um and The thing I remember was uh, it's one of the questions is on the questionnaire What's the most valuable part of the course and what's the least valuable aspects of the course and then on the question That what's the least valuable aspect she said the trainer Just that was it just the trainer so um Obviously I'd said something or obviously I've done something which didn't I there were some other comments in there You can obviously trace it back because the way that they match up with other questions that she's answered along the way and there was some There was obviously some unhappiness about what I told or how I taught it I think it might have been to do with getting a name wrong, but but that's just my uh my intuition, but And that's something that when I read it my immediate response was um I'm gonna say I don't care Sounds like um Like like really like like you serious is I mean Who who writes that it's like I mean come on give me something a bit more than that It's like um, it just seemed almost too comical to be Playground to be to be real to be to be valid Yeah, um And there probably was more there was more up behind it and there was obviously something that I didn't Have written your mother Yeah, so it's like um either someone was just going for the gag or um, it was a genuine piece of feedback that I I just laughed at and I didn't I And is that is that a valid that should you discount feedback is all feedback valid because in that case I don't think it is No, no, no, I I wouldn't say all feedback is valid and the fact that it wasn't very specific Yeah, it's not very useful to you. So it's it's got to be useful um, I would also suggest that it probably wasn't um It wasn't very mindful feedback either. It was probably written at a time Where her emotions were still a little bit raw Yeah, had there been a follow-up conversation. Maybe you'd have found out a little bit more if you'd have been interested um but No, there It would be You know, there would be a part of me. I think that would probably be curious to find out what it was But there would also be a part of me. I'd have to admit that would rather stay oblivious Um, because sometimes once you're aware of something You've either got to fix it or you're now aware of something that you can't do Or can't fix and that can be that can be that can dent your confidence and lead to all sorts of sort of confidence crises, can't it but Um, no, it's not it's got it's got to be a relatively safe environment to have good feedback And I think there's if you don't respect the opinion of the person giving you the feedback, then it's pointless Yeah, I'm pointless asking for it But then of course not all feedback is asked for some time. Sometimes feedback is foisted upon you whether you wish it or not um There's a time that we used to do a section didn't we in our The early iterations of our advanced course about feedback traps. Yeah, and I think timing is um Is a is a really essential part of of knowing when not just how and what but when Timing of feedback is um, if it's too raw if it's too soon if it's too You know or if it if it's too late can't be acted on that type of thing But generally, um, I think we talked about this before but the idea of sleeping on it It is to letting before There might be an opportunity not saying in every situation you should sleep on it, but sleeping on the problem or sleeping on the the process or the The thought The conversation the the reaction Might change how you deal with it It might do it might it might do for the better. It might do for the worse. Um, I think it's uncomfortable, but in general Unless it's extreme I think the sooner the better The closer well, what I mean by that is the closer the feedback to the actual event The more useful the feedback is Because you're relying less on memory Um And our memories are notoriously bad not just mine, but humans We we generally remember the last That we don't remember the thing we remember the last memory of it. So Um That that's that's a flaw But if your emotions are too high Then you have tunnel vision you're you're in your fight flight response Rather than be able to rationalize about something So it is a balancing act. It is finally in the sweet spot, but in general Once as long as emotions aren't high The sooner the better There are tools and techniques for bringing emotions in There's a nice phrase. Um, paul's ed jackson used this This is way back when I was um, I think just before I started by my books. This is probably 2017 And I can't I wish my memory was better, but I can't remember the exact phrase he used but so we were talking about feedback and we're talking about um giving a receiving feedback and he said um something like The reference of phrase the feedback vacuum where there's a feedback vacuum It makes feedback much harder at anyway so just having a huge gap between feedback Makes it harder to have to either give or receive feedback the next time so small Little bits even trivial feedback can increase that the chances of you being able to cope and Coat with it and cope um cope with giving it better next time probably shouldn't but um But you will yeah how How you respond to something has a massive impact so Yesterday was the weekend and I was doing some sanding in the garden With an electric sander. Yeah Now a little bit like you I was in the state of flow and didn't realize that it was eight o'clock Which is probably a bit late to be using an electric tool It's going to bed. Yeah Um, so my wife came out and said you should probably stop now. I said, oh, yeah, fair enough. I'll stop now As we decided that our doorbell rang yeah and Where I was I couldn't get to the front door in time But my son did Right and one of our neighbors came around and was swearing at my son about the the noise Really um very aggressively My boy's 13 He wasn't doing anything about he didn't know anything about he knew what was going on, but it was nothing to do with him yeah, and We've got a video in our in our um Doorbell so I could play it back, but I couldn't see who it was I couldn't tell who which neighbor it was to go right speak to yeah but The point of me telling you this is How do you come around and said do you know what it's a bit late? It's a bit noisy I'd have been embarrassed and I said, yeah, I just realized that it's eight o'clock. That's my bad Yeah, I've probably said have a bottle of wine or something like this. So sorry But the fact that he came around and had a go at my son without wanting to speak to me about It made me want to go back out and start sanding again. Yeah And I know that's not a good thing Why do you think that was a what what was it was it the family was it the fact that Because I've spoken about this before that family has an interesting effect on me and my Perhaps my rational size and my Is that was it? Was it the fact that he Or he or she had mouthed off it your son or was it was it? Yeah, I think so I think it was I think it was an overreaction as well. I think it was um It's not like I've been doing it for a for a long time. Yeah Um And it's something that I actually have the right to do So it's not like I'm having a a late night party. No, it's local regulations Uh, so yeah, I felt it was an overreaction Um and something that could have been dealt with a lot more calmly rationally, and I think that response was more likely to lead to escalation Than And that's even with a relatively rational mind on I would escalated it again even further Yeah Have we spoken about this? I think on a podcast a while ago my um run in with A group of rather drunken Lads I won't say lads because they they were young but uh men on a um on the euro star We talked about we talked about this but And that was a situation where I was not going to go back because I confronted it very early. So I gave the feedback And this is a conscious decision. I need to do this about the time that I needed to give this feedback now As soon as I get on the train Literally, it was while we were putting our bags in the overhead lock. I said I've got I'm going to tell you this now gents while you're all sober And you can hear me in a in a rational non-aggressive voice that If this we're going to have a My family are going to have an issue with this if the if not so much at the volume, but if the language becomes um Unsightly so As it happened it did things got worse These these guys got more drunk and the language did get worse. So we just we distanced ourselves I and then it would have If I'd gone back And reiterated my point I think I think I don't know this but I think it would have got a lot worse for me and for my family had I gone back and And that and and repeated Probably inside my antagonistic way. Why what I said earlier on yeah Takes a very mindful um Please very mindful state to to be able to To give emotional feedback calmly Without escalating it I think that could be so back to the adult thing that could be true of teams though If you feel a strong enough bond to one of your team members or a team member that you feel um Is being hurt or is being in some way um You definitely circling the wagons type, you know siege men Yeah, so but that again that can that can backfire and that can that can actually be Trying to represent someone even when You know when you don't really know all the facts can be quite inflammatory as well If you don't know if you're trying to give feedback on someone else's behalf It becomes hearsay it becomes you said this Did you say that or and then you you get into kind of playground arguing about type of thing Which is which is never good, but it is um, it's all yeah, it's a it's a minefield, isn't it? Feedback minefield pretty important important Right Yes, that's too much heavy thinking for me for one night All right Yes, sleep well my friend will do and um, well, we'll see see uh speak next week when we've got some Scrum master challenges to review looking forward to that Cheers