 And I would like to go on to the second part or the second session, which will be about energy democracy. Sunrise is working on this subject for three years now, we really actualize this topic. And there are other subjects in the Macedonian public who work on this topic and then something being made. And this is also a part from the definition the topic that the first session, and this is a very important part for me that we are working towards. And I would like to emphasize the relevance of this topic, what I would like to elaborate before we start is what we saw from the previous session. That we have to implement drastic changes in the way we manage the planet and its resources to make sure that the benefits of the development helps everybody. And not only people now, but the future generations. Well, the benefits can be achieved only with just usage of renewable resources everywhere at the planet, as we saw before. That's because of social economic economical reason, we cannot emphasize inequality when it comes to renewable resources. And we have to just the allocate those resources for people to use them in their everyday life. Here we need to find a systematic solution, which will be in the long term and it will allow for social justice in the area of energy, that energy porno is from where the transition and the changes are. I would like to welcome their color months again. Who last year and I've talked on the same topic with us and who inspired us to keep on working on this topic in Macedonia. So I want to introduce him again, you know that the co founder of get and is the founder and coordinator of course. Here you go. Thank you very much. It's very convenient to combine two topics in one Congress. I again will try to share my screen. There we go. Let's see how it works. So, thank you. What I've done is, I looked at the presentation I gave you know great. I kept some basic elements because I think they're really crucial for the new people and but of course I added new elements so I think in a gym across democracy is very important and it links a bit to the former topic. That of just transition so just transition means we just we don't aim for a transition towards ecological economy without looking at dimensions such as solidarity or equity know we need to just transition. The same goes here. So we don't just look at transition of the energy system, going, let's say from fossil fuels to renewables. No, from as greens, we find energy democracy. A crucial element of this energy transition and to explain this, I will first keep very short the kind of historical analysis and then point out to things that are happening now. I know that from where we come, we come from a period to post war post war second after second World War period, where for 30 years the governments took energy in their hands. There was a lot of focus on nuclear energy. And when we entered the 60s and the early 70s citizens and the early environmental movements were protesting this national policies for two fundamental reasons. The first is of course ecological concerns. Nuclear energy produces nuclear waste uranium, you have to mine it and so on, but also and I think this is crucial also a really basic democratic concern. The only way you can manage a nuclear plant is in a centralized way with almost military security. And so to put it simple, a local community can build and take care of a windmill, but not of nuclear plants. And so if you, if you want to have a decentralized energy system, which is key for democratic energy system. We also need another kind of technology. So in the 70s already it was not only time citizens resisted nuclear plants but they also built the first alternatives like here you see in the north of Denmark already in 1978. In the 90s, we entered a new phase which I described as the nearly neoliberal period. The European Union introduced the duration of energy market the belief was the government is failing we need corporations multinational sticking care of our energy future. It soon became clear that they were not investing in renewable energy and Germany was very interesting because at that time there was a red green coalition that introduced fixed feeding tariffs, which means that every green kilowatt you produce. You guarantee for the price you get for it now and also the coming years. So what happened was that the government created a stable, stimulating environment for incentives from below citizens and local municipalities. And this led to a real energy transition in Germany what we call the energy energy render was the slide I showed in orchestrate where very positive news you see that in the energy render the percentage of new installations by private citizens and their cooperatives is very high 46% but what we see and I think this is an important lesson is that if you look at more recent figures. The share of citizen owned renewable energy has dropped to 42%. It's still a lot but it's going down and what is the reason that this very good and stable system of fixed feed interest has been changed into a commercial system of tenders. Tendering new projects, and therefore new projects tendering it's much more suited to big companies so yeah in this the government of Merkel is not doing, let's say the right thing. And I think this still is a kind of basic scheme to understand how to look at energy democracy. Of course, there are three ways of organizing things in society. Of course you have the state government, which needs to look at universal and also bureaucratic. You need to market companies in certain domains it works well it's based on competition and profit what is often forgotten is that there's a third way of organizing things in society it had a comments where we as citizens use our autonomy. This is really core of if you if you talk about ecological citizenship. It is the room in society, citizens have to take their own initiatives, a bit separate from market and state I think this is crucial for real energy democracy. You could say yeah citizen initiatives it's a bit small scale it's not serious. No, I think we are now at the crossroads. And I think if we want to build a new economy, the citizens initiatives are crucial and to give an example why they are important in 2009. The first room, a political scientist from the United States was awarded the Nobel Prize for economy, with her studies on comments, and she showed that the many cases self organizing citizens are more effective than state markets. So I think this is a very important result of her work. So, the question is which role for citizens. And if you look again at this triangle, the first movement was in the 90s European Union decided to go to the state as central player to the market. The market cooperation didn't do enough for the future on renewables so citizens really in certain countries like Denmark and Germany took initiative. And I said, Germany the success was because of this good federal system of feed interest. This means that we, we need a new concept of government, and this I call the partner state it's not a state that organizes everything top down, but really develop mechanisms. So there can be a cooperation between governments and citizens. I think this is key to really realize an energy democracy. Meanwhile, the good news is that all over Europe we have now energy copes. They have organized themselves in a federation rescue. And there are now more than 1500 European energy cooperatives. And together, they have more than one million citizens who are active. So this is really a powerful network. Yeah, also interesting. When I was in a grid, I showed the graph on the left, which is the situation of establishment of new energy coops in the Netherlands. And the graph went into 2017. And it stopped just below 400. And maybe if you would think this is a kind of maximum know if you look at the new current data you see that still 2018 2019. More energy cops every year were created 100 last year and so they are now almost 600 energy cops in the Netherlands and also very interesting. In 2019 in the Netherlands was a broad societal debate on kind of national climate agreement. How can all forces in society work together to realize ambitious climate goals. And I think it's in agreeing on the national climate agreement. And one of the goals in this climate agreement is that in the future, the goal should be that for new renewable energy projects. There is a citizen's involvement of 50%. So I think it's also very important that if you discuss national climate policies to put in there, really this goal of connecting citizens. Again, I said before we know, but I find it's very important. So I want to repeat it. I think a sustainable democratic energy system is based on four principles. The first is obvious 100% renewable energy. The second is crucial. It's about ecological justice. Everybody has access to energy. Despite high energy prices, this maybe can sound a bit paradoxical, but it would be unwise to keep energy very cheap. Because some people don't have enough money. The problem is then that their income is to load probably is not that the energy price is too high. And for instance also if you support people for insulating their houses. It's less energy. So it's not about the energy price. It's about having access to energy. Third is as I said, it's a democratic system. We need to insist on public civil management, government bodies and cooperation citizens organizations together. And fourth is of course energy within planetary limits. This means that we also have to reduce the energy demand, because if you listen nowadays, every sector thinks the sector can become renewable because they will use in the future only renewable energy we will not be able to produce the same amount of renewable energy as the amount of energy we now produce by using fossil fuels. So we are talking about in the future an energy sector that runs on renewable energy is managed by the community on the basis of ecological justice and focused on the public interest. To conclude, I want to very shortly brief you on the state of play in European Union. We know there's a Green Deal part of the Green Deal is just transition that's one part but also renewable energy is also at the core of the European Green Deal priorities. The Green Deal is an expert, a part of a recent report from the Commission to the European Parliament on the renewable energy progress. And so it's clearly stated that the directive on the promotion of the use of energy from renewable sources is a central element in the EU's energy policy and a key driver for meeting the renewable energy targets for 2020. I think this is very important here we have this higher ambition. 2020 targets are also the first major milestone provided basis to deliver on the increased ambition of 55% greenhouse emissions reductions by 2030 as envisioned in the climate target plan under the European Green Deal. And so with that increased ambition, the European Union has established a balanced path to climate neutrality by 2050 through the deep decarbonization of all sectors of the economy. And then this is a crucial sentence in this sense that transition is needed from today's energy system to an integrated energy system largely based on renewables. As specified in the impact assessment for the climate target plan for the 55% greenhouse gas reduction. The 2030 share of renewables will need to reach 38 to 40%. And so 2030 is quite close in policy terms and the ambition is already to reach then something like 40%. In the graph to show the evolution, you see here the share in final sexual energy consumption of renewable energy. And then you see for instance, the blue line is the line of the energy sector. And then you see that the European Union is doing quite well. The actual share of renewables is a bit higher than the predicted goal. Then if you look at the reds and the black line, it's about heat sector heating sector, there's also doing quite well. The sector that is underperforming is below the green line. It's the transport sector. It's clear that if you look at the use of renewable energy, the transport sector is really lying behind. But we are here now 2020. Here's 30%. So within less than 10 years we have to be here for all the different sectors. So this is quite ambition. To conclude and going back to the energy democracy goal, the European Union has decided on what they call a clean energy package for all Europeans. And it's very important that for the first time in history of energy policy or European Union, this energy package acknowledges citizens as important actors in the energy markets, which strengthens their position in relation to market parties. And it creates room for citizens in the format is called energy communities to take ownership of energy transition projects. And so, and this relates to the example I gave of Germany. The United States have the possibility for energy communities and small scale installations to make different arrangements outside the standard procedures. So they can really, if they translate the European legislation into the national legislation, they can provide specific arrangements for these energy communities. It's a very unique opportunity to enable citizens to take hold on the energy transition. And the European Union also asks member states to actively support this creation of energy communities. So I think this is really one step further. And this is again an example how at this moment, the European Union, which has many problems on a lot of domains is really I think doing good work in this field. So with the positive message, I conclude my contribution. And I'm very curious to hear the other speakers. Thank you. Thank you, Dirk. These are very impressive data for us, especially in the part for the target of renewable energy, which has come to 40% which is 40%. Unfortunately, here, a very small percent of the energy is done from renewable sources. In the last years, or if I may say decades, they tried to show the statistics as if the energy was produced in hydropower plants, in part of renewable sources. And that's why I would like to welcome the next speaker, who will talk about mini hydropower plants, not only here in Macedonia, but as well as on the Balkan. I would like to introduce Miroslav Bogdanovski, who will talk about the fight against mini hydropower plants. Right from me. Hello to Sunrise. Hello to Dirk. And thank you for the invitation to be part of this interesting discussion. Just give me a moment. I would like to add one more question. Okay, let's ask you to put a sustainable economy. The climate policies will have to create a fully sustainable energy system. This kind of tradition opens huge possibilities to achieve energy democracy. These energy systems are created and designed in the last century as assistance with a down approach. As an example are the nuclear nuclear power plants who are managed as military places, whereas the wind turbines or the windmills and the solar panels and the property of local communities such as villages, regions or a bigger group of citizens who can manage it on themselves. Therefore, the fossil fuels as a resource can be found only in certain regions, but that's why they ask for information of centralized systems for production and distribution. And the opposite of that, the solar and the windmills are available throughout the whole world. This gives the opportunity of supply and socio-economic systems based on cooperation between collaborators or cooperatives. Air, water and soil are exposed to pollution all the time. As a result of my path, a bigger or greater, a lesser or greater impact on the environment, the tendency of today's development should be based on using natural resources without having a negative impact on the environment. That's why we should use the renewable resources, but also substitute the non-renewable energy sources. The principle of using these clean technologies should be implemented into everyday life. In our energy system, the biggest part of energy has been through unsustainable and unrenewable sources of energy with the cold being most used and its exploitation is done with old technologies. High drainage is at the second place, but this is also unsustainable because it takes up a lot of areas by building man-made lakes and they also stop and destroy the natural growth of the rivers. To use a high drainage, we have to emphasize that the climate changes are being questioned and it is uncertain whether in the future we will have enough water for those populations. One of the barriers to the development of this sector are the rules adopted by the ministries, which regulate the new energy legislation so we can limit investments in solar power plants. For the household, this limit to produce electricity from renewable sources is up to four kilowatts and for the companies it's up to 20 kilowatts, which is demotivating and stops investments in the renewable sources of energy. After the parliament, I will deal with these rules and try to change the law so the citizens and companies can invest in renewable resources. That is, that they should not have limits with the production of electrical energy, which will achieve lowering of the use of fossil fuels. I have also initiated a public debate on the topic of utilization of the health for obtaining electricity from small heights of power plants and how this has an impact on the environment in the local population. So there are a couple of small heights of power plants which are being built, as well as some that are being built, which is considered as a national area and this gives me doubt, respected. Around 400 small heights of power plants are planned in Macedonia and many of those have been already built, but at least 30 of them are in a different phase of planning than getting permits. A lot of these are situated in protected areas such as the national parks model and a list there as well as in areas that are planned to be protected, such as shadow mountain and so on. Other small heights of power plants, even though they're not in particular areas. They have negative impacts on the regions, building small heights of power plants in areas, which are part of the MRO group is not in accordance with the national and international laws as well as having an importance with the articles convention. So in the parliament, we will enable that all together MPs from different parties experts and single activists to be able to look at the way this law is implemented so we can take imminent measures to save our rivers because these small centers have proven to be a wrong step to clean renewable energy. They give an insignificant benefit for the production of clean energy, but they make logical damage. This is the advantage of certain individuals, we change the hydrological regime, so the regions don't have water to drink or to water, we trap rivers and pipes, and therefore destroy the flows of them, and we also need for us, and encourage erosion. That's to those centers. The high privilege for more investors to build many types of central already on anywhere on the Balkan. And according to certain estimates around 2,000 objects are being planned to build. And due to their negative impact in Europe of 400 small types of central are destroyed and in America, more than 1000 have been destroyed in Macedonia, the target for investors is two to 12 euros for a one kilowatt of electrical energy. And the price for a kilowatt of energy, which has been produced by the delay 2.5 minutes or 1.5 euros. That means that the tariffs are six times higher than the regular production price of the electricity and yearly for privileged tariffs around 30 to 40 million euros have been paid. And this strategy for energy with him to up until 2040 things like new mini hydro power plants, which have power of 92 megawatts, they should have privileged tariffs. This should not be allowed taking into consideration that the strategy for energy has negative impact on the biological diversity. The procedures you can see from citizens of Serbia where they together remove the pipes from the reverse and where they are looking for the pipes and they free the river or the river flow, which means that the citizens have taken into their hands. In addition, taking into consideration that the procedures for getting permits are being led on a national level and the municipalities only give their opinions, which usually is in accordance with the small hydro power plants being built on their territory. The local population is not even familiar with the plans of their land being floated and rarely there the water for drinking and for watering is being taken away from them. The lack of information is, is contrary to the artist convention, such examples are villages with a given crop up in the municipality in Macedonia, where by the building of the small hydro power plant villages are left without water supply. And now the municipalities and its own resources and the citizens resources to get tanks to these people for relations. All these conditions are opposite of the long water will have to determine whether missions where the small hydro power plants are being built, give the minimum amount of natural water flow and whether they are being monitored. If it is determined that with the planning, the building and the functioning of these small hydro power plants, they're not in accordance with the regulations in the law. So we should question the procedures of the ways that the legislation has been given and try to protect some protective areas as well as mother will shut up. And it doesn't depend whether those hydro power plants are being built where they still function or whether they're in the means of getting permits. The initiative for having a public discussion is based on a possible high react of the lawn waters. The first one is Article 15, which is the priority for using waters. And that water supply should be given to the public through a public water supply system for health institutions for the industry of production of food and to give water to the livestock, as well as for other needs. Then according to Article 24, the public debate will have to determine whether through this decision to give concessions for minifigure power plants. Whether there is an argument that procedure which is based on which is in accordance with the procedures of the laws of the public of New Zealand. And the last one is Article 120, that's minimum acceptable water flow and level of underground water where we have to make sure that there is the minimum acceptable river flow and what is the level of the underground water. They maintain the surface water. And that shouldn't be smaller than the minimum acceptable flow. The public debate happens very soon. And all the stakeholders can take part into this. The future is green. Thank you very much. You are working very intensively on the problem of the climate. And we are not shy to answer this question. The questions are seen after the last answer. I would like to remind you that we also have the new government. So that's the new minister for the change, for the living of a simple planning, Kristina Odzhakliyevska, who has elaborated on the topic of climate change and energy. Kristina, you have to turn on the microphone so you can hear it. Do you like it now? Yes, great. Thank you. Allow me to express my pleasure for the opportunity to take part in this event. I would like to share the activities that are carried out in the ministry for the living environment and space planning, such as the answer to the resource for creating and offering policies for decarbonisation or policies for decarbonisation of the influence of climate change, as well as the adaptation of the most vulnerable sectors of climate change. The Republic of North Macedonia is on the side of the framework of the Convention on Climate Change, but also on the side of the energy unit and the country, the member of the country, the candidate for the full-fledged membership of the European Union, shares more images, which we recognize as a ministry, as a possibility for development, especially for Maikea Pregi and Zelenada Agenda. Taking into consideration the agenda for development in the Western Balkans, which will be a subject to adoption in this month. With many of our leaders, regarding the two-year report by the Government of the Republic of Macedonia and its adoption, as well as the adoption of the Agreement on Climate Change, I'd like to share the analysis in the area of energy, which enforce the National Strategy for Climate Action and have offered an integrated plan for energy and climate, observing what's been set in Paris. The Ministry initiated the adoption of new measurements that are to be taken and implemented by 2040. We're about to have new energy plans regarding the carbonization, which for the first time is introduced in our papers. The results from the analysis in the so-called green scenario strategy also encompasses many analysis regarding the greenhouse gases and is the basis of the integrated plan on energy and climate. These results represent the basis for the creation of revision of our previous documents, and they are to be delivered by the end of this year. This is one step forward of Macedonia, regarding green politics of the European Union by 2030, as well as the long-term goals of 2050, regarding the international perspective. We'll try to promote those measurements in the future and support sustainable growth of the economy and try to generate new green job opportunities. All these activities are aiming to reach a lower level of emissions of pollutants and offer new green jobs. As I previously mentioned, we try to promote and reduce the greenhouse emissions and promote new green ideas in the work of the institutions of the Republic of Macedonia. We expect to implement many measurements starting from next year. We'll try to adjust to the climate changes and we'll try to strive for it to be our priority. Of course, we will not be able to do all of this without support. We need support from the civil organisations, we need support from abroad. All the stakeholders will hopefully help us accomplish our goals. Cooperation is a crucial tool for action towards meeting our goals. We need to set just a strategic framework and influence in order to set a good climate and good environment where we can implement those measurements. We need coordinated activities that will lead towards reaching those aims. Our leading principle in the development of our policies is in cooperation with all stakeholders. I encourage all of you to visit our official website where you will find additional information on the work of our ministry. In conclusion, I would like to say once again that we are open for communication and cooperation in order to achieve our common goals. I will once again say that I will do my best to try and implement my knowledge into reaching those aims. I'd like to thank all the speakers for your presentations. Now I'd like to open the final session. That's our Q&A session. If you have any questions regarding the first and the second session, now is the time to do that. Now is the time to ask. Thank you, Alexander. I have one question for Dirk. The question regarding the treatment of waters as renewable sources of energy. In your presentation, you mentioned the sun, the wind, and the waters. That's an old definition. We know that they are renewable sources of energy. However, we can see that in practice, we can notice the bad influences, the bad results that we end up with from getting that free energy. So should we treat water as a renewable source of energy? And should we implement it in our green practices? Since it's also in a way damages the environment, those practices regarding using water, those hydro-energy projects, should we avoid them or not? This is a very important question since in Macedonia, we have certain problems and confusion among the public regarding this issue. I think I know the answer. However, I think that we should hear your answer on this. I believe we all know that the ecological paradigm keeps changing over the years. And what we thought was ecologically just some 30 years ago may not be true today, may not be just today. So I'd like to hear your opinion on water as a renewable source of energy. Thank you. Okay, thank you for the question. I think it's clear that the big hydrogen dams as they were built in the past by central governments, just like they built nuclear plants, without taking care of the environment and the ecosystems, is not the way to go forward. So I think that's clear. And I think we should consider even in the future getting rid of certain big dams because they destroyed the ecosystem and the cities and valleys. At the same time, I think that water still is very valuable. There are new, very effective, small systems, which I think can be integrated and used by local communities. So I think if the starting point is a decentralized system, where you think about a kind of network system of a lot of local producers of energy, I think water is still a very valuable source. We use it already for many, many, I would say at least centuries, the water mill. So I think we still have to use it in the future, but it has to be done on a scale that it can be managed by local communities without harming the local environment and the local ecosystems. Thank you. Dirk, any more questions? A question by from Maya? I have a comment and a question for Dirk as well regarding the New Green Deal. I'm very glad that on the proposal by our party though, the principles of the New Green Deal are implemented in the program of government for 2024. And I think it's a very good basis for creation of the following policies regarding the general development of the economy and leaving, they leave some room for just transition and new job, green job opportunities. However, regarding the corona crisis that took over the world, I kept hearing all kinds of comments such as the transfer of finances may go into some companies that will benefit in an ecological way. So they will receive subsidies for working in an ecological way. Do you think that this can in a way damage all the work and effort that we have done regarding the New Green Deal? These types of measurements may be negative regarding the deal. We keep hearing all kinds of comments that maybe this pandemic will lessen the finances, will reduce the subsidies that were meant for green development or threaten certain stakeholders. So managing this pandemic has an opportunity for investing in certain areas. Should it be an excuse for abandoning certain principles? So I'd like to hear your comments on this. Okay, thank you. I think it's a very important question. And I think it's really also at the heart of the crucial debates also in European Parliament, also between the parliament and the commission. I think the starting point is, and I think this is a good starting point of the analysis of the corona crisis is that we cannot leave the management of the crisis to market forces. On the contrary, it was the deregulation with a kind of a government that was that we treated didn't have the courage to really steer the economy. That was part of the problem. So I think the first point, positive point is that the corona crisis has made clear that government and public services are crucial. There's no party anymore. I think in any country that for instance says we have to cut budgets of hospitals. We have to cut budgets of care workers. So I think this is really a good point. Second is that in order to deal with the corona crisis. There's also a kind of, let's say, kind of neoliberal dogma that we shouldn't use too much money. You shouldn't make, have a data, make more data states is also now off the table. It is clear. A lot of countries also Germany, especially but also the European Union says clearly, it will take us everything we need to get over this crisis. This means that in a way and of course, at this moment, landing, but lending money by governments is very cheap. Governments even can rent with negative figures. They even get almost money extra if they put lend money. So the available money is also not a problem. But indeed there is a danger. The danger is that we would go back to what is called classical Keynes, Keynesian approach. And indeed also giving money to sectors of industry of society of which we know they should transform in the future. A good example are air companies. Most air companies like Air France, and so they succeeded to get loans and support of their government during the first corona crisis in spring. At the same time, the discussion is going on. So if, and this is a big difference with a bit more than 10 years ago, the crisis of the financial sector, then also governments put money on the table, just to rescue everything, rescue banks and all the companies that were in danger. Now we really have a societal debates. How are we going to spend this kind of a lot of money. I think this is really very important governments, national governments and also European Union are putting an unprecedented amount of money on the table as subsidy as loans to really make sure that we don't have a kind of structural crisis. So I think we, it's our duty as civil society as green parties to be very active to really go into these debates and for instance the green members of the European Parliament fighting on this every day. I think this is one of our important members of European Parliament is the Dutch MEP Bas Eichhout. He really is discussing every day that we should make clear, be clear that the extra money that the money available in green transition goes to this transition. We cannot afford ourselves to lose this moment on the country we have to really be sure that the money we invest today prepares us for a better future. But it's a debate, it's a debate in every country, it's concerning air companies, it's concerning also fuel companies and so on. I think the most important point is that really it's at the heart of the debate and we, it's our job now to as green party as green movement to everywhere where we can to make sure and emphasize that we should use available money to really make the transition even faster instead of slower. But of course it's it's it's quite logic that all the lobbies of the traditional sectors are very active. So we shouldn't be naive. It's not a game one, but it's a game we have to win. Thank you Dirk. You introduced your insight in a quite nice manner. The new corona plan of the European Union regarding the Balkans and Western Europe has emphasized, has put an emphasis on the energy. That would be my conclusion. If there are any more questions, you're free to ask. In my presentation I mentioned about the green agenda for the development of the Western Europe. In this green agenda, with it, in the present agenda, we want to try to transform the elements from the European green field in the prior sectors to the fall of the Balkans. In this green agenda, we're talking about five main pillars, which should be a set of points that find the energy and the liquid circular, the mean lowering of the production, the sustainable agriculture and production of food, as well as buy that back again. That's why in perspective it comes to work towards cooperation between the second power country, that's regional cooperation. This is what I wanted to add. Thank you. I have a question and it would be most appropriate that I ask the senior colleagues about this. We know that the level of the present lake is significantly lower. We know that the water flows through Galicica and then it flows through the lake where there is a hydropower plant called Filet. I'm interested why the Prespa lake has lost such a big amount of water, which is such a great mystery. And whether this hydropower plant has a role in this, because these days I've been watching pictures on the internet where the level of water in the Deba Lake is also very, very low. There are also jokes from the local population that they were, they would build stadiums here on the lake. I have no information about what is happening, why the level of water is low. I don't have very complete information, however. The climate changes, we can build the climate changes and that's why the water levels are lower. When it comes to building mini hydropower plants and their impact, allows those petitions to carry their tasks. And that's why I say that we need to accidentally, when we train certain objects to build such objects, which nowadays is seen as they have a negative impact on the environment. In the building space, and then they don't have a lot of economical benefits, but they make the water level become lower. We believe that, I believe that we should have appropriate analysis in the early stages, so we don't come into situations when these objects are being built. That's why I would like to contact people tomorrow and in the future. I have a question, but I would like to answer that he should expect the public hearing about Tarpanina. We are organizing the public hearing in the parliament. I don't have any information about hearing about Tarpanina. Okay, thank you for the answer. I believe that in the men made lakes are very sensitive. We also travel through the National Park. And we commented that because of the climate changes during these last years, droughts have been really expensive, but the human factor also has a great role in this. I don't think the climate changes are a great influencer on here. But we should make some more detail to see why this condition is such. So the conditions we have here regarding energy are very limited. Only big companies can make investments. We need to change our legislation. That was his point. We as an organization for quite some years have done some research on this topic, and we've used some research by Croatia, for example, we've cooperated with Dirk. We've heard his opinions, his insight regarding certain topics, and we got some directions by them. We are at the total beginning of making some changes. We are aware of that. We are far from any countries and you are right about that, but we try and work on our problems, on our shortcomings. We've discussed this topic before, and I agree that that should be our perspective, that should be in our focus in energy democracy. Some three years ago our assembly passed a new law on energy. Practically even then we had a legislation that prioritizes, that opened the door for renewable sources of energy, especially wind energy and sun energy. Before that we had a legislative, but since then we started working more. I agree that what we have at this moment favorizes some powerful companies. I will also answer Olgita. It's not that the country doesn't invest in solar panels. They are some tenders. Whoever wants to set the solar panel, the ministry, the government can give that permission, and it encourages individuals to do that. It also encourages citizens to set windmills. You do not need any changes in the legislation regarding that. Since we already have that in the rulebook. So households and small companies already have the permission to set solar panels on their buildings, but there is a limit. Because there are some troubles regarding the market. We've discussed this issue before. We've discussed how the net can intake all that additional sources of energy. We've discussed about the limitations. We've discussed in many ways how to stimulate households and companies to use renewable sources of energy. We will of course continue to do that. Any other comments? I have a couple more words. I want to say the most important thing. Why do we need to implement the rulebook? We cannot forget that we are a country with most sunny days when it comes to Europe. So when a Germany has all villages with affordable takes, which produce electricity and they have as many sunny days as they have, In Macedonia we have a bigger advantage and we have to use that. That's what I'm emphasizing. Letting citizens be part of cooperatives and lowering the prices of electricity. Thank you then. I don't know where the problem lies about what Maya mentioned in this transitional period. When we renew the market for energy and that will go into stages. There is a huge barrier for investments. And almost a year has passed since we have been issued but nobody is investing. And they're not being motivated to invest in renewable resources. We will look at the conditions right now. We are working on the problem and we will focus completely on this part of the economy. Is there any more questions or discussions? We overpassed the agenda. We're 20 minutes past the point of time. However, I would like to thank all the speakers. You're all welcome again. On the 7th of December we'll have another event. We're talking about energy democracy. I invite you as speakers and as participants today. We're open for communication in the meantime. We will be working and we have your own all in our email list. And we would like to ask you about the further steps that we are planning on doing in our project, energy democracy. We will also inform you about the just transition we talked about earlier. Thank you all for being here today. I had a lot of fun. There were a lot of good speakers and interesting presentations. And I hope that we will see each other again soon.