 Okay, welcome everybody. And this is the the second webinar in this series of workshops on Indigenous Peoples Food Systems, Biocultural Heritage and the SDGs. And the workshop consists of four webinars and we very much hope that many of you can participate in all of them. So before we start, I'm going to briefly go over the objectives of the workshop for those people who weren't here with us on Friday. So first of all, we want to promote an inclusive intercultural dialogue because we have a range of participants, university academics and Indigenous peoples from several countries. And we'd like to explore the role of Indigenous food systems in achieving the sustainable development goals. And today we're going to focus on Indigenous food systems in China, India and Kenya. And thirdly, we want to identify the priorities for research that Indigenous peoples feel are important, but also that address interdisciplinary research gaps. And we'll be doing that tomorrow in the third webinar. And then we also are going to explore methods for research into disciplinary methods and decolonising research methods. That will be the final webinar on Thursday. And finally, the objective is to build new networks and partnerships for research from Indigenous food systems from the field to the plate. So just to kick off with a little bit of background and a summary of the discussion on Friday, Indigenous peoples represent most of the world's cultural diversity over 4,000 languages and are the custodians of about 80% of the world's biodiversity. But this biocultural diversity is facing unprecedented threats. Over 20 languages are lost every year, according to UNESCO. And the Aichi Biodiversity Targets of 2020 will not be met, the UN has recently announced. And Indigenous peoples across the world continue to suffer from colonisation by dominant cultures in different ways and from racial discrimination and marginalisation. So that is the background. In terms of the key messages, overall, the key message was that Indigenous food systems are critical for achieving SDG2 on zero hunger, but also other SDGs. On sustainability, Indigenous peoples' food systems are vital for food security because they sustain the natural resource space rather than depleting it. And as Yon Fernandez de la Rinoa from FAO said, food systems will not be able to feed humanity in a sustainable way unless they are redesigned with a much stronger focus on environmental considerations. Modern farming systems focusing on a narrow set of crops have eroded genetic diversity and Indigenous knowledge, which are vital to achieve sustainable food systems. We also heard how Indigenous peoples sustain wild crop relatives that they use to enrich domesticated populations of crops in home gardens in the Philippines and also in the potato park, biocultural heritage territory in Peru. On resilience, we heard how Indigenous food systems are part of the solution in the fight against climate change. That was a key message from the FAO expert seminar in 2008. And we heard how native varieties in Peru have proved vital for confounding climate change impacts in the Andes. We heard that Indigenous food systems are also vital as a safety net during other crises like the COVID crisis, not only for the farmers in rural areas but also for people in urban areas. And we heard from Simon Mitambu from the Taraka tribe in Kenya how Indigenous seeds have helped to lessen the impact of COVID by bringing people together through ceremonies so they help each other. And how COVID-19 has led to a revival of traditional foods in his area in Kenya. On nutrition and health, we heard from Harriet Kuhnline how Indigenous foods can provide more nutritious diets and the importance of considering their contribution not only to physical health but also to spiritual, social and mental health. Women in the potato park explained that the food they prepare is also medicine, not only for food. And women play a key role in transmitting the cultural values that underpin Indigenous food systems. We need more research on the nutritional quality of Indigenous foods and also metrics for nutritional quality, not just food quantity. On cultural heritage, we heard from Simon Mitambu that Indigenous seeds are sacredness, that Indigenous seeds and food systems are important for identity, spirituality, social cohesion. And that most of the work on Indigenous food systems is collective. In Peru, Kenya potato park experts, sorry, Quechua potato park experts, explain that food security and rich biodiversity is sustained through ancestral values of solidarity, reciprocity and balance. They explain the Ailu concept where the human, the wild or natural and the sacred worlds have to be in balance for them to achieve well-being. And their culturally rooted food system provides a genetic reserve for the global community and for future generations. It sustains over a thousand native potato cultivars. So on the challenges facing Indigenous people's food systems, we heard from Joji Carinio, an Indigenous representative from the Philippines. That mainstream economic development and modern agriculture have overtaken traditional farming in many Indigenous communities and there have been rapid changes in food, diets and nutrition in Asia. In Thailand, farmers can be imprisoned for rotational or swidden farming because there has been a misconception that they cause deforestation and forest laws do not recognize their rights to live in protected areas. And we also heard how special cultural zones in Thailand have revived local economies and biocultural heritage. And however, promoting markets for heritage rice has led to an undermining of agro-behidiversity. In Africa, the big push for hybrids and chemicals are undermining soils and water. And there is a lot of arm twisting we heard between governments and agribusiness corporations. So it's hard to promote laws that support Indigenous people's food systems. And there are huge power imbalances underlying these policies and colonial laws promoting seed patenting undermine collective seed systems. In the potato park, we heard that the communities are very worried about the government promoting GM crops that will contaminate their huge genetic diversity and they're organizing to confront this threat. The potato park provided evidence that how collective management of the territory by communities can respond to multiple crises to biodiversity, to climate change, to food security and to COVID-19. So finally on research, we heard from Philippa Ryan at Cuba Tannock Gardens, how research on Indigenous people's food systems often has different aims and that we need more holistic approaches that combine different disciplines to better understand and protect Indigenous food systems. Participants stress the need for participatory research approaches which actively involve Indigenous peoples and which link traditional knowledge with science and the need to ensure that the research doesn't just focus on the food systems themselves, but on the broader challenges that they face. And as the potato park Ketua experts explained, research in the potato park is defined by them and addresses their needs. So I hope that provides a good summary for all of you, those who weren't there on Friday. So today we're going to explore Nashi food systems in Southwest China, Lepcha and Limbu in Northeast India and Michigenda food systems in coastal Kenya. These case studies are the focus of a new project funded by the Arts and Humanities Research Council and this workshop will help to design those case studies. We're still at the very initial stages of the research but the three case studies build on previous research including participatory action research on biocultural heritage funded by the British Academy. So first of all we will start with a stone village biocultural food system network in Yunnan. This will be presented by Yi Qing Song and her team. Yi Qing has been a senior researcher and programme leader in the Centre for Chinese Agricultural Policy and she is also the founder of the Farmer Seed Network in China. So this session will start with a five-minute film and then we will have presentations from members of the Farmer Seed Network and also from a spiritual leader from one of the villages, Wu Mu Village that's part of this biocultural heritage food network. So let's start with the film. Matt, can you help us with that please? 前期乾旱就好奇,笑语笑个不提,要不前期笑语就好奇干旱, 气候就是每一年的变化的特别,不一样的变化。 而且这个玉米早就要拼住,住下去就没有一定的 相遇和失度的话就根本解不了办,但 传统拼住的话就是住起就至少也会解一个吧, 以为有一地的看汗系吧。 我觉得可以给大家分享一下的就是黑玉米, 因为它的颜色有最大的不一样。 这一个是绣云一号,这个也是弄性的, 然后种出来的口感也比较好。 这是可以做酸梅汤,饱食饮料, 我的这个合作社的名字也是八贵的吧, 食物的食,食物是比较八贵的。 其实我们的仪式不是很复杂的, 做出来的比较简单才是真实的。 土豺,还有窝末,老白,油米,有四个社区组成一个玩乐。 这个玩乐之后,石土车的这些组织一到五目在交流, 还有试住,后来就慢慢移到老白,老白这个点。 我一直在做这个保育的这个事情, 一个是遗传的机遗吧, 因为我抱抱也喜欢做流主的这一块。 然后遇到了住口院的那个苏玉琪老师以后, 她又给我上了一堂课,再一个可以遗对我们的气候。 我自己做了一个主持客,还有我们保三社区的石土车社区, 也建了个住址仪,还是在家里自己建个主持客更有比较直接。 随时可以拿到地里,可以循环住址。 以前军人的有一百兰族,玉米有五十几族, 小麦七八族,还有隧道一七八族,还有四叉类, 杜类这些都有。 我村里的这些姐妹也在做住我的这些传托批准, 然后比较伟低的这些差费下给村里的这些军人。 一旗期间,我在我的住址口里, 足够可以费钱给大家,也没什么太大的意见。 组织像神秘一样,丢了一个人的神秘一样,丢了一组组织的话, 所以我一直在保留这个传托批准, 这是一十七年,一直在这里。 Thank you so much, that was lovely, really good introduction. So, we will move on now to the other presentations. Do we have Haimi Yang and Mr. Hei Zhixian, the Dongba from Wumu Village. Would you like to make your presentation please, thank you. Yeah, now next I will share about about the Nasi Mountain Community Network. Yeah, because the video Shiuyun Zhangrui, she introduced about four village. Four village, yes. Like Youmi Village, Lakashi Village, Sido Village and Wumu Village. Yes, the community network is composed of four Nasi villages. Yeah, and they are living in the Yangtze River, yeah. And the four villages, they have their different characters, yeah. So I will show some pictures about the four villages. The first one is Youmi Village. Yeah, in Youmi, here are 83 Nasi Mothu families living in Youmi. Yeah, this village is the furthest from the Lijiang among the four villages. It takes us a whole day from Lijiang to reach the village. And now there are nine Dongba in Youmi Village. The Dongba catcher is very, is very weird to protect it under inherited. So Youmi people, they can develop sustainable from generation to generation, the key important reasons. The next village is Lakashi. Yeah, Lakashi, this is a village, this is a village of Nasi Mothu living under Yangtze River. And they believe, and they believe in Dongba religion and has their own Daba generalized. At the same time, Lakashi has a relative advantages in geographical location and carbon and carbonate transportation. They are the village and Youmi village and Wumu village, yeah. And the third village is the stone village. This village is Xiuyun, Xiuyun Jianghe hometown. Yeah, Baoshan stone village is a Nasi village that they said in farming earlier, more than 1000 and 30 years ago, the people of stone village. They deserve an amazing update and underfield system, which nourish more than 200 Nasi families and guarantees their livelihood of generations of people in stone village. So the last village is Wumu village. Yes, Wumu village, it has a farming mass similar to stone village and they have here more than 20, more than 20, yes. The traditional greeners built there is a Ming and Qing dynasty and in the village, there is a harvest system, the Dongba, the Dongba will hold some activities to worship the gods, yeah. And the farming, the farming worship ceremony also shows the abundance of the village. So the four, so the four Nasi villages, they take us from different perspectives from the selection of crops, the process of food, the materials, and to the final production and the distribution of food. And the formation of their tree concepts at every step. Yeah. So, So today, I think today, the time I will invite Mr. He Ji Xian, because he is also a Dongba in village. So he is a farmer in the Wumu village. Yeah. Yeah, so in the next time, Mr. He Ji Xian will share the Nasi local food systems. Yeah. Hello everyone. I am Ji Xian. I will now share with you the introduction of the Nasi local food system. The Nasi local food system, I will share with you four parts. One is to create a food system for farming. And the second one is a more strategic one. What is the foundation? The foundation is a production environment. It is a system to build a food system. And another one is the rural and rural environment. And another one is the development of the social development system. The new food system is built in the rural and rural environment. Nasi is a famous farmer in the Wumu village. He is a famous farmer in the Wumu village. He is from the Hong Kong region. He is one of the most important social activities in the world. He is a farmer in the Wumu village. Okay. Hello everyone. I just tried to translate the key point by Ji Xian. Ji Xian explains the indigenous food systems of Nasi. He said there are four parts. The first part is culture. The culture part of the spiritual and the culture of Moso and Nasi. The second part is the local biodiversity and the physical contact. The third one he mentioned is about the community is not working. Because different communities in the specific contact, in the watershed, in the landscape, they complementary towards each other in terms of food need and food support. And also in terms of knowledge and culture. That's why they need networking towards each other. This is the third part. The fourth part he mentioned is about the communities that interact with the outside world. Like with the market, with the city, with the outside peoples. So because of this four part, it's in the evolution process. It's not fixed. And these systems are evaluated with timing and with the changes day by day. So this is the process. He emphasized that. And he also mentioned about that food is life. It's everyday life of people. It's very, very important. It's the base of the Nasi culture. Because of the exploration of food, and then gradually and accumulatedly, the cultures become more and more rich. Because Nasi, and more so before it's just a herder, their food is dependent on herding, hunting and the collection. And gradually they settle down and become a farming community. So this is a process. So that's the key point by Nasi, by Ji Xian. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much for translating, Yiching. That's fascinating. So, Yiching, do you want to take over the chairing? Because I don't really know how you want to present who goes next and all that. So I'll let you. No, I may just say that if I will show the photos to supporting what Ji Xian introduced already. Okay, thank you. So this is a photo so you can see. So this is the worship. And then in the Uumu village. They share food together during the harvesting. This is the traditional wedding. This is the way they how to keep their food. And the last all year long. This is a traditional way. Yeah. This is the old people they share in food together and during the festivals. This is the intercropping. Pumpkins with, with, with beans with, with maize and this very traditional ways of farming. This is pumpkin in the mountain community. This is the traditional maize flower. This is the mooncake, a handmade mooncake by the community people. This is the farmers. This is a traditional local variety of maize. This is a wild walnut. And they also use for eat the walnut oil. This is a root of traditional root for food in the, in the mountain. This is the how they make this sugar. This is the way how to make this potato. Okay. This is the chili. It changed with the city people. This is the, the, the, this is a normal made by buckwheat flower. Buckwheat is also traditional crop in the, in the mountain community. This is a dry vegetable. So this is also the way they keep their food. This is the kind of turnip. It's a very traditional plant. They, in the mountain communities, which they, they rely on and for as a vegetable and as a food in the winter. This is the eat flowers is a wild mushrooms. They have the from the forest, a lot of different mushroom from forest. So you can see that. So you know I have them. This is the pepper. Okay. Those are the food from outside coffee, birthday, birthday cake. They're all coming in the community also say as a, as a GCM mentioned this community and community connection and also community with outside community connection. Gradually the whole food systems are evaluated like this. Thank you. This is not she, not she was say, thank you. Thank you so much. That was great. I feel hungry now. Okay, I will say a few words and then if we're going to even have something to add because even have also done a lot of full indigenous food research and a bunch is in charge of this small project. I want to say that I because I, our key approach of pharmacy network is trying to support in digital communities in digital people so our approach is let their voice, let their participation and their voice directly in the process, not us. So this is important to show the film by the women farmers to let a key chain as a spiritual community spiritual speaker, speak himself. It's a pity that they cannot communicate in English directly so we need to support them to do that. This is the first thing I want to mention that here is that. And from there, from this indigenous systems project and the, and the communication I really more and more realize that food, see as a decision decision and show you mentioned them see this life food is a base of their everyday life is the base of, of the culture of the communities. So it's a very, very crucial of the culture of the whole society. This is especially true for the communities for indigenous people, because they are this is more connected to their everyday life and the livelihood. Not, not, not, not only money, not only technology, even not a research for them is life is everyday life. So, I think this need to be, and because of this, they need to deal with all the changes and the crisis every day. And because those dealings this really accumulated a lot of wisdoms and knowledges and an appearance. This is a need to be more support and realized by the outside world. So, it's not something that a slogan and about global can can can deal with this is really a everyday life, specifically, we really need to rely on those local people those indigenous communities for our future for a certain ability. This is what I want to emphasize. So, thank you. Thank you very much, Yiching. That was great. So we'll go to the Q&A. Now, we have one question from NSA 10 kilos. I'm afraid I don't know who you are but would you like to say your questions so we can all meet you in the process. I'm from RBGQ. I did have a question I was marveling at how quiet and peaceful those communities seem to be and I started to wonder if some of those traditional foods are helping to alleviate the problem or I guess those those diets don't create the problem of diabetes in these communities. So, so my question is, is there less diabetes in these communities. Thank you. Yiching, would you like to answer that for him? Okay, yes. Yes, I can understand your your wondering and question about this, because of these pigs and fat food and like this. But this is a traditional ways, because they really selected this and because they're physical labor because they are they go into the mountain climbing the mountain all the times, they need this. So, the diabetes is not a problem for them. And at the same time, they also drink a lot of tea, heavy strong tea and also a lot of herb, vegetables, mushrooms. So together is no problem for them. And the more programs is that because a lot of migrants are working outside. So those people I have more, more, more programs and they bring back like high blood pressure pressure, those kind of things. And some programs are from the pollution, like a soil pollution, like more pesticide and fertiliser use and cause some pollution. Those are the program. Thank you. I don't see more questions right now. I'm going to ask one myself if possible. To Mr. Hey, she's young. Thank you very much for your words. And I was wondering what you see as the main changes that have happened to your to your indigenous food system. What are the threats that it faces? And what is your vision for the future? What do you think the pathway should be for it to go in the future? Christina, she said she wanted to ask you a question. That is to say, what we are currently talking about is the whole food system you just described. The four parts are particularly good. And it is a process of development. But from your point of view, what is the biggest threat now? What do you think the direction of the future development of our food system will go? Thank you. There is a question that is more obvious. The new food system has a good structure. It has experienced a history and a lot of experience. The experience is that the experience of food is the discovery of food and its value. The new experience is that the food is constantly being devised. The value of the food is the protection of the food. And the food is constantly being devised. But the problem we are facing now is that our food is getting smaller and smaller. The only reason for this is the impact of capital on the traditional slave market. In the past, the food was a life for the workers. But now it has become a profitable tool. This is a very scary problem. In this way, the food system will slowly disappear. But at the same time, it has become a profitable tool. But how does this life combine with the traditional folk culture? How can we remember these good food in the traditional way? And how can we think about these problems in the future? Okay. I will do the translation of what Ji Xian answered. Ji Xian said that one program he can say that in the indigenous food system is based on the appearance and exploration of farming and of collections. The food collection and the food crop farming gradually accumulated and become more and more rich and diversified. It's very diversified systems and they evaluated all the times. However, and the program he can see that now in the recent decades, it becomes more and more uniformity and the diversity are disappearing in terms of crop, in terms of food types, and also in terms of the way of preparing it. So that's what he worried about, because of the uniformities and the less and the less diversities, they really threaten the whole indigenous food systems. Because the reason he can see that, because before food is for livelihood, for people's life, for people's nutrition, but now food becomes more and more marketing-like. And the food system is for money. So that's why, that's the reason he can see. So that's what he sees the program and the reasons. And once is that he thinks that the good things that for the outside food and more and more other material from outside and the inter-into the indigenous food systems. But how the systems integrated, accepted the outside food and outside the knowledge, but in order to not destroy its own systems, that's the things that he considered that he should consider more and may need to do more research. Thank you. Brilliant. Thank you so much. We'll just have a couple of questions. We'll just have a couple of minutes left. So I'm going to read these out from Phillip O'Ryan from Q. How important are different types of bean? If you could provide a fairly quick answer, that would be great. Well, how different are what, a different type of a bean? No, how important are they? I just wondered what the local bean diversity was and how important beans still were today and whether that was changing over time as well. You want to ask the Dixian, you can answer the question Dixian, or you can answer it. He's asking about the beans in the four places. The beans. What's the difference between the two? It's this way. We have a lot of beans here. The beans are now a large part of my group. We have a large amount of beans, and a large amount of beans in the region. We have more than 20 beans. We have a variety of bean varieties. We have a variety of beans that are more than 30 to 40 beans. Why are there so many bean varieties? One reason is that the bean varieties are smaller. The bean varieties in the village are not very large. Because the bean varieties are more likely to be more complex. Some years, the season of corn and the season of the rice has passed, but it's still not raining. Or it's raining, but it's still snowing. There's no water. There's no water. There's no corn. In this area, there are a lot of paddy fields, and a lot of paddy fields. There's no corn. We have a lot of fields that can be used after the fire. We can even use the paddy fields. This can help us not to cause more damage to the nature. Another reason is that when there are not many paddy fields, and there are more stomachs, we can make a variety of bean varieties. For example, we have bean curd, and bean paste, and bean sprouts. The way we eat bean is also very unique. It's a variety of varieties that can be used to adapt to the weather. We have a variety of varieties. We have a variety of varieties. We can make a variety of varieties. We can make a variety of varieties. We can make a variety of varieties. Ji Xian briefly answered the question about beans. In Ji Xian's village, Ji Xian established a small community seed bank. In their seed bank, there are more than 20 soybean varieties, and also more than 30 other vegetable beans, pea beans varieties. Varieties are very diversified and rich in the village. Why so? He mentioned about that because in the mountain communities, they have a terrace for rice and beans. They also have some dry land, and in the mountain dry land, there are growing beans, different types of beans growing in the mountain together with other vegetables in the forest. There are a lot of varieties that they can harvest. Some varieties have a very late growing season that can avoid the dry season. After the dry season, beans are very adapted to the mountain communities in the community. Because of this, those beans contribute to the food system, diversified food very much. With these different beans, they make different foods, like tofu, and dried beans, and salted beans, and also make a different type of bean food made by the Nazi people. The beans really nourish the Nazi people's food system. Thank you. Great. Thank you so much. One last question. I think Yuqing, perhaps you could just provide a quick answer to this. Yes. How much work is actually being undertaken in China to support Indigenous peoples' food systems? Are there more researchers and organisations working with Indigenous peoples to support their food systems, apart from you? Yes. As far as I know, there are numbers of research institutes and also agricultural researchers. This is not yet very much mainstreamed, but a lot of research institutes are putting effort on that. For example, we, like us and like China Agricultural University and the National University, multiple teams in the last one and two decades are starting to pay more and more attention to Indigenous food systems and to diversify diversity and their contributions. Thank you so much, Yuqing. Thank you so much, Mr Hishian and all of the China team for all of that. It's been fascinating. I really appreciate sharing all of that, fascinating about your Indigenous food system. Thank you everybody. Thank you. So we're now going to go to India, to northeast India, actually not that far away from where we were in southwest China, on the other side of the Himalayas. And so we're going to hear about the Lepcha and Limbu food system in Kalimpong in West Bengal. So I'll hand over now to Naraj Gurung and his team who are there. Please go ahead, Naraj. Thank you. Thank you everybody else. The information I'm going to share pertains to food system of mountain communities with specific references to Limbu and the Lepcha tribes, Lepcha tribes settled in Lingse, Lingseka villages at Contenjunga landscape of eastern Himalayan region, India, okay. This area is surrounded by Bhutan, which is slightly in the north and Bhutan in the north, Sikkim in the west. Well, the adjacent forest of the village has been declared as the conservation park in 1993. Since then, their relationship with the forest is in constraint. The villages are inhabited with more than 1,000 households of six major mountain tribes. Lepcha's history of creation, culture, rituals and livelihood revolves around the Mount Contenjunga. Because of its abundance in biodiversity and their spiritual connection with the land, they never felt necessary to move out of this landscape. Limbu's to have a similar connection with the Mount Kumbhakarna situated at the western flank of Contenjunga as their sacred mountain. Limbu's migrated to Lingse, Lingseka during 1930s. Lepcha's and Limbu's, sorry, 1830s, Lepcha's and Limbu's both considered themselves as the blood brothers and often their villages are found adjacent to each other. These two tribes possess a traditional knowledge about more than 50 herbal plants, 36 wild ediables, 13 types of fruit crops, among them six are wild species and they have the knowledge about the 28 species of the birds. They grow more than eight types of cereal crops, 20 or more types of vegetables, four major cast crops and around 20 to 30 different types of beans and pulses. Major traditional cereals are maize, paddy, millet, buckwheat and naked wheat. According to sample survey, 47% of the total Lepcha and Limbu population is under the age group of 18 to 39 years. 44% of the households cultivate in more than three quarters of the land under their position and 79% of the household income comes from agriculture and allied activism. This is about the Lingse, Lingseka village, which I am talking about. Traditional rice cultivation is declining and it is a successful green revolution in mainland India. Rice is mainly grown only to sustain the family's tradition, rituals, for status and for the interests of the elders. Maize is considered as the king of the cereals. Millet is grown specially for making brew local beer. This drink is an integral part of the household income. It has a significant influence in the social system and well-being of the mountain tribes. Livestock like cattle, pig and poultry are popular and contributes around 8% of the household income. Meat is an important part of their food. They enjoy occasional hunting and fishing in the wild. Major agriculture operations are connected with rituals, festivals and ceremonies. Rituals of Ubauli and Udauli signifies the phenomena of weather change, migrating of animals and birds and agricultural operations in the field. While performing these rituals, they offer seed grains, fruits, vegetables, fermented millet, eggs, etc. to their deities. This offering to deities provides food to tired migrating birds and animals and in turn, they spread seeds to different altitudes of the landscape. Nwangi is another ritual which not only determines the time of the harvest but also prohibits unmonitored harvesting. Similarly, there are many rituals, ceremonies and festivals which not only reinforces cultural values like reciprocity, solidarity and equilibrium with nature but also contributes in social well-being. Asarko Pondra is the ritual of eating flattened rice with curd. Marke Sagrati is a ritual of eating fruit crops in winter. It is believed to keep the body warm. Parma and huri is to work in group with fun and pleasure. Most of the households have backyard garden which is considered as a sacred and serves as a germplasm collection and experimental plant. Some of the aspects that are lost. Over the period of last 40 to 50 years traditional cereals like dryland paddy, wild millet, foxtail millet are lost from the area. Agriculture related social events like paddy and millet dance are performed only on a stage program due to decline in decline their cultivation. Traditional knowledge addressed with sustainable forest use is declining due to reduced interface with the forest and lack of ownership. Knowledge about the birds and animals behavior is relevance. In relevance to agriculture practices are rarely passed on to the younger generations. Rituals and cultural events have become an expensive affair and some of the stick press are rare and difficult to find. Only few farmers practice traditional method of seed selection in paddy and millet. Some of the resident practices are they continues to grow local land races of paddy, maize, millet, buckwheat, and wild millet. Some farmers adapted to their cultivation practice by changing planting and harvesting time and follow crop preparation. Traditional practice of seed exchange is practiced within the and between the households community and villages. They have intrinsic habit of trying out and conserving new species in their backyard garden. In addition, there is a practice of contribution in terms of caste, kind and services. This social activity operates through village society, community, organizations and self-help groups. The community operates in collective manner while utilizing the natural and human resources for agriculture activities. More than 80% of their diet is consists of local food crops and livestock, especially elders love to eat traditional cuisines. They also collect wild seasonal which has high nutritional and medicinal values. However, there is continuous influence of modern food culture due to increased trend of caste economy. Breastfeeding to babies are common practice. This is an integral part of the ritual and the festival gives immediate energy and satisfy their thirst while working in the field. This brewed millet drink is also popular in social gathering for pleasure and happiness. There is traditional practice of preserving surplus vegetables and soybeans. Challenges are changing in the way of local to caste economy. Influences of urban lifestyle and food due to aggressive marketing media decrease in yield rate of traditional crops. Younger generations are less interested in rituals, inappropriate developmental schemes of the government. Religion conversion also affects the sustenance of rituals and traditional practice adversely. Responses are consciousness for health and immune system due to COVID-19 effect. Environmental consciousness among social organizations are increasing. Appreciation of traditional food by people coming back to village from cities and the towns. Demand for traditional cuisines in tourism sector especially home stays increasing. Continuation of ritual and ceremony contributes to sustaining indigenous food system. Research gaps need for integrated local research approach to connect and influence the national and international policy dialogue. And investigation is needed to understand the impact of forest conservation on food system and sustainability of the land race to identify corrective measures. Thank you. Thank you very much, Naraj. Thank you. That was great. I'm just wondering if Dawa Lepcha or anybody else would like to add anything from your side before the Q&A? Yes, I think he would like to. Hi, everybody. Those who are joining this program. Kamrimo Sevaro as well as Dawa Lepcha and Dawa Lepcha would like to share with you what he is telling. Are you audible? Okay. So what he is telling is that Lepcha and Lepcha their kerchief and rituals are more or less similar. Just as Dawa Lepcha and Lepcha are both from the same family. And Dawa Lepcha and Dawa Lepcha are both from the same family. And Dawa Lepcha and Dawa Lepcha are both from the same family. What he is telling is that the kerchief and rituals are almost similar from food to funeral activities and the priest they use for their rituals. They have their own priest, but they work in a similar fashion. They believe in a similar kind of spiritual feeling. What he is telling is like in the past their ancestors used to live in the jungle only. They used to live in the jungle only. They used to live in the jungle only. They used to live in the jungle only, the forests only. They used to eat only nut crops and fruits, and their livelihood was dependent on the forest. They were separated into They were totally dependent on the forest. Even the oil they used to extract from the forest product, everything, even medicines, cereals, everything they used to do are sifting cultivation. So their whole life, I mean, whole livelihood was dependent on the forest. They are the worshippers of the nature, both limbo and lepta. So they worship their mountains, caves, and rivers. Both the communities are the worshippers of the nature. They have a very peculiar kind of practice of doing agriculture. So whenever they do any agriculture practices, they always offer or they worship the nature. And they think like the land and this agriculture is kind of a mediator between the human being and the God. I mean, their duties are, yeah. They believe that by doing agriculture in traditional practice, traditional agriculture, they keep them in their homes. They believe that by doing agriculture in traditional practice, traditional agriculture, they keeps them near to God. Because all the agriculture activities are related to their several rituals and on every major agricultural activities are done with the according to the rituals and they offer fruits, vegetables, grains, everything to their duty. So it is a kind of, agriculture is a media for connecting them to their God duties. So they have been doing all the traditional agriculture only. So still they are doing traditional agriculture. So they have been doing all the traditional cultivation of the crops like millet, pungdol, like wild millet, and vegetables, paddy, buckwheat, and also they do root crops cultivation. So they also do some cascrops like large cardamom, ginger, a little bit of potato, and also the broomstick. So they also depend a lot on the wild ediables and the other forest products for their livelihood. But recently because of the several government policies, so there are so many restrictions which are actually affecting their performing the rituals, culture, and their food system. Everything is being affected by the new policies of the government, especially forest. Because of this reason, the people now are going more and more cascrops. Because of this now the cultivation of traditional crops are reduced. So they are going more on the cascrops and cheaper products from the market. Because of that the rituals are affected there. I mean so many of their way of life has been affected because of this policy ultimately. Even the weather conditions are suitable for doing the modern agriculture practices. So because of the climate change, they are also facing a lot of difficulties in continuing even the traditional agriculture. When the government makes policy, they should consider the indigenous people, tribal peoples, culture, their belief system. The rituals, so then it can be conserved otherwise it will be declining every year. So they have a strong practice of seed exchange which is contributing to conservation of the different varieties and the quality. So for the conservation of the nature and environment, they have been always worshipping to their deities. So they will continue to do that for the conservation of the nature and the environment for the future generations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you Dawa Lepcha. That was really interesting, fascinating. So we've got a bit of time for some questions now. It was interesting and sad to hear about the forest policy, which I think is what you were talking about the government policy which is affecting forest use and affecting the culture affecting biocultural heritage. And we have in the chat, a couple of questions. From Sandeep Hazary Singh, are there any moves to revive the millets that have declined? What are the plans for the future generations? What are the plans for the future generations? The restication of the government is the forest. The forest is the one that is responsible for the monoculture of the forest. So the restication of the government is the one that is responsible for the forest. So they are still continuing to grow millet, but earlier they used to grow millet in the forest also as a sifting cultivation before 1993. So but now they are growing in their field, agriculture field, but it will be it can be further increase its production. People are interested to do that, but it will be better if they have the access to the periphery of the forest for growing millet and all. They are their own agriculture land. It's declining every year, but they are meant because of the rituals because it's so important this millet is so important for the rituals. And for every ceremony they make that local blue like local beer type of things. It has to be offered in every occasions and people it has a lot of social implications also. It's very important that they continue to do that continuing to grow millet, but not to that extent they used to do it. And moreover, it's available in the town. These days, of course, super quality. Thank you now Raj. I have, and I have one more question in the chat. So there's a question from Sanjunkta gosh, what is the nature of seed network in the region and how sustainable is it. He talked about seed exchange within the village I think, then the local area but is there a seed network more widely in the region, I think that's the question and how sustainable is it. So they have a very strong practice of seed exchange, but as such there is no the seed network established seed network system done so far. We have initiated some seed bank, but it's still in the very much in the orphan states. Thank you. Another question. In what ways are government policies restricting traditional agriculture from Kathy Smith. Okay, earlier when they had access to the forest, they used to get a particular kind of wood which is used for the making the plow, you know, like every country equipment. I, I will listen. It's, can you hear me. Okay, so they used to get a particular kind of wood from the forest which used to make every country equipments. And another thing they used to keep a lot of cattle, when they had access to the forest. And they these days because they don't have access to the forest they are not. Many people they are not keeping their this plowing bull, you know. So because when there is no bull in the village. So the agriculture this traditional practices are also hampered because there is no animal to plow the land. So I don't know. Another thing is like they used to collect biomass from the forest for their, you know, backing manure and all, all these things are stopped now. Thank you now Raj. So essentially that the forest is government reserved forest isn't it so you're not allowed to collect, because it's like a protected area. Yes, so the communities can't collect plants from the forest. So that's why the whole traditional agriculture system is being weakened because they can't use the forest anymore. And it's harder to make a living now so they said the traditional farming system is threatened. Even the for the rituals they have to collect many orchid flowers and specific type of plants, which is available in the higher digital forest only. Even even the sometimes they need to collect the water from the different streams of the forest, because they were living in that area. Since the time they were hunters and gatherers. Yes. Okay, thank you. I just have one last question. Which species of millets grow in the forest and do they have a different growth. In this environment. So they have one more question off that. They have that is local name is pangdur and the carbony, which is now it's almost lost. Thank you very much. And I missed one question from Bobby Banerjee. You mentioned that religious conversations are a threat to traditional culture. Sorry, religious conversions are a threat to traditional culture and rituals. Can you provide some examples. Because there are rituals there are ceremonies are basically they have they used to worship the nature when they when there is a religion conversion in Christianity or in other in other thing. They don't believe in worshipping or they don't believe in the relationship with the nature. They don't believe or they don't worship. They don't respect the nature's guests. They kind of they won't believe the whole interaction with the nature like their traditional beliefs are there. So are there examples of people being converted to another religion. So are they being converted to Hinduism. Okay, I hope that answers your question. I think we're going to need to move on now. It was really great to listen to that presentation. Thank you so much to all of you to know Raj and to Darwa. Yes, please. I just want to make a statement. I just want to say hello to my Nazi people they are my supposed to be ancestors. They say that you're not related now Raj. No, no, no. Now scientifically proved it is now. Well, that was wonderful. Thank you so much. And thank you, let's our ladies as well. We, I don't know if any of you ladies want to say something quickly before we start the presentation with you. Okay, now they don't have but maybe tomorrow. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you very much. Big applause. So, finally, we're going to go now to the Kenya case to the Michigenda in coastal Kenya. And at the end of this, can I encourage everybody not to use the chat, you know for the Q&A just raise your hand. You know, I don't want to have to read or I mean I don't mind reading your questions but it's nicer if we can have interaction. Okay, Chimukul, please go ahead. So Chimukul Wakesa is from Kefrey. He's from the Kenya Forestry Research Institute. And let me briefly introduce. Sorry about that. He is an ecologist. And he's been working with the Michigenda for a number of years now. And, yeah, a landscape ecologist. So over to you, Chimukul, and your team. Good afternoon everyone, or a good morning everyone. I will start by sharing some photos. Sorry, so I'm going to talk about the Michigenda community. And in this case, we are going to focus on rabbi community, which is among the nine Michigenda communities. And this Michigenda community is closely associated with the Kaia culture. And I'm sharing some photos on Kaia landscape, because in the community we are talking about, we have about four Kaia forests. And these Kaia forests are very rich in diversity, both for crop-wide relatives, medicinal plants, and even other fauna diversity that support community livelihood. And closely associated with the Kaia is the governance system, which is led by the Kaia Council of Elders, and also traditional ceremonies, which play a key role in sustaining indigenous food systems. Like now the land races for maize, which came to Kenya around 400 years ago, but has been naturalized, and is part of the traditional crop varieties that we have within the community. So, going back to the Michigenda community, a brief background. The rabbi is occupied Kilifi County within the Kenyan coast, and the population is about 120,000 people with a population density of 581 persons per square kilometer. So we have about 24,000 households with about five members per household, and the poverty level stands at 71%. And because of that high poverty levels, the communities are heavily dependent on natural resources and agriculture to support their livelihood. However, the average farm sizes are decreasing, and in the last 10 years we have seen them decrease from about 2.4 acres to about 2.1 acres per household. And this has implication on indigenous food systems because it means the areas that can be cultivated are going down and down. Despite the area having good rainfall amount of about 1,300 millimeters per annum, which can support farming. They also practice mixed farming, meaning that we have crop farming and livestock keeping. And with their culture, coconut has become one of the key crop because it is the main income generating source for the community, and therefore there is a lot of coconut growing within the area as one of the traditional crops. Again, we have the maize, we have cassava, cow peas, a millet, and other crops that are grown by this particular community. Within the chaos, we have about 24 diverse species of wild food plants, and these plants have medicinal value, and they are commonly used by the community to supplement what they cultivate on land and what they have also domesticated in farmlands. Some of these plants are being domesticated, and today we have about six, seven different food crops that are being domesticated in farmlands, but which were initially wild in the chaos. Among these food crops, the indigenous vegetables forms the bulk of that diversity because we have about 20 indigenous vegetable species within the community. Among them, the wild cow peas, which of course is being developed by researchers together with the community for farming or for domestication on farmlands. A cow peas which was wild has now been domesticated, and we have three main varieties now being cultivated by the community. The other food crops you find important to the community include cassava and sweet potatoes, and we have also several varieties for this, like for cassava we have three varieties, then for sweet potatoes too we have three varieties. So the total food diversity within the landscape is about 59, with the indigenous vegetables having 21, wild foods 25, cereals three, sweet potatoes three, cassava three, cow peas three, and green crumbs one. But the community also do livestock keeping and we have poultry, goats, sheep, cattle, both local and hybrid varieties. But of course with the government policy on food security, we are seeing a number of hybrids being introduced, especially for maize, and about four hybrids of maize have been introduced, two for cassava, and these are having an implication on indigenous food system because they threaten these indigenous food systems. But of course because of the strong traditional knowledge, the community still conserves some of the indigenous food, but the methods of preparation and processing are being lost because of that lack of effective knowledge transfer from the old generation to the new generation or rather the youths. And this has led to reduce consumption of the indigenous food systems. So how do these indigenous food system play a role in climate resilience, nutrition, and biodiversity conservation, as well as health and wellbeing of the community. We can say that these indigenous food systems are key in helping the community to adapt to the changing climate, because the rich diversity provides opportunities for improvement of existing varieties by harnessing some genes from the wild species of non-varieties. An example is just the cow peas, where we have now a domesticated variety, which is high yielding pest resistant, trout tolerant, and which was developed by combining genes from trout tolerance and high yield from different varieties of wild cow peas. So with this unique genetic characteristics from wild crop relatives, the community is able to develop those food plants or food varieties for different species, which are resistant to pest, which are tolerant to trout, and this ensures that they are able to get some yield to ensure there is food security. Moreover, we have these indigenous vegetables being perceived as having very high nutritional value and the medicinal value, and the local community prefer this because of these multiple benefits and also their ability to thrive under now the current weather conditions that are very erratic. But we have challenges facing these indigenous food systems, and one of it is the pressure on the land resources given the location of the community, which is very close to the Mombasa, the second largest city in Kenya. We have a lot of infrastructure development taking place, and this is reducing the land that is under crop farming and negatively impacting on the indigenous food systems. We have urbanization, modernity, Christianity, social transformation, which are also having negative implication on indigenous food systems because of the erosion of cultural practices and beliefs, which are driven by these four factors, urbanization, modernity, Christianity, and social transformation. Another challenge is the traditional and cultural practices diminishing very fast, and this poses a danger to these indigenous food systems because communities associate indigenous food systems with culture and at some point they are their identity and symbols for the community. So how is the community responding to this? Increased sensitization and awareness of multiple benefits of indigenous food systems through for agro-biodiversity conservation or through capacity enhancement can play a role in helping community respond to the challenges facing the indigenous food systems. There is also pro-indigenous food system policies that can promote these kind of food systems in a way that there is good market, there are also good production technologies, and also good preparation methods to ensure that when they are grown, they move from farm all the way to the market and also to the people's play. So those good policies that can promote this is one of the responses. Then the traditional governance structure, which is mainly focused more skewed on forest, should also be reformed and strengthened to look at the entire landscape and bring on both more women used for transmission of knowledge from one generation to the other. Land use planning which is lacking within the community is also another response that can be put in place to avoid the negative effects of infrastructure development and industrialization. I will move on the kind of research undertaken and to date we have documented the traditional group varieties grown by this community and their unique characteristic. Carefree working with the community and also biodiversity international have documented this. We have also tried to document those food crops that have been lost or rather those varieties that have been lost both in farmland and in the wild and documented those innovations that promote traditional knowledge and a cultural practices and which are also associated with cultivation of those some of these indigenous food crops. The other research has been on how we can make the governance system for the landscape strong and how cultural values can be preserved and the aspect of domestication of the wild food crops. So what would be the priority to research areas. The focus will be more on vegetables because they have the most diverse aspect of the indigenous food system. We have over 20 different indigenous vegetables so any research within the community should focus on this and more so on cowpeas which has huge nutrition value and market potential. Then the other aspect of research that we need to focus on is on how modernity and erosion of culture is affecting indigenous food system and this should be holistic in nature to even tackle issues of agro biodiversity conservation both on farm and in the kiosk. Then the link between indigenous foods crops and the cultural practices, regions and beliefs needs to be explored more. The other aspect that requires research focus is how a traditional governance system can be enhanced for food systems because it has been the governance system and the sacred gaya forest but the aspect of food system has been missing and this is something that needs to be focused on. Then assessing the consumption patterns of this indigenous food systems at household level restaurant and other eateries because that would give like a value chain aspect and try to give information on which indigenous food systems are more popular. We also need to identify the existing markets for this indigenous foods since markets would be key in sustaining their cultivation by the local community. The other thing which I have partly mentioned is value chain analysis to look at the market value of various indigenous food system along the value chain is more risk connected to the previous point from the farm to the market all the way now to the restaurant and to the household on place. Then documenting the traditional ways of preserving indigenous food system without altering their nutritional value because the community said traditional way of preserving their food. We need to document this because this information is being lost and that's why these are gap between the old and the new generation in terms of how we can preserve some of these food system indigenous food how we can also prepare them and all those kind of processes. We have we have a number of research issues including conducting inventory of this traditional foods that are currently grown on farms and those that are found in the wild. And developing some cultivation methods for some of these indigenous foods because some of the issues that came up was how do we propagate them because some are just found in the wild. And for us to upscale then we need to see how we can cultivate them and farmers capacities enhanced on cultivation methods and this will include propagation and multiplication. Then lastly we need to identify factors that are hinder knowledge transfer on indigenous food systems. Look at the link between the weekly cultural practices and believes and the loss of knowledge on the preparation of traditional foods. And at the same time assess the role of women and girls in sustaining this indigenous food system because they make decisions at home on on the menu that will come on the table. And if we get their roles right and ensure that they play their role, then we will find most of these indigenous food system on our plate for improved nutrition of value and for improved health and well being. So I wish to stop there. I have my colleagues here who will talk from the community perspective. So I will pass over to Lenox to to take like five minutes or so and share with us what they have from the community perspective. Thank you. Great. Thank you very much. Let's go straight to Lenox because we're running a little bit late. Thank you. So they are just to introduce briefly Lenox and and Mohammed Kadilo are the coordinators of the, there they are, they're the coordinators of the rabbi cultural village. And so they're going to talk about their work and their indigenous food system. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Christina. And I will take five minutes as Seymour Kossaid, and I will go straight to part one of my presentation. So as a community, we had approximately six types of food crops in the past. But now they have reduced to 25 to 30 types because of several reasons, one being modernized food, and these types of these types of food crops that have been lost. One is sorghum. Another one is millet. We had yams, pumpkins, then we had vegetables like I will just mention this in our language that is chalapuche. There was beret, there was chikoshu, and there's also traditional mushrooms. There was wombo, and also had wild tomatoes that have been lost over the years. And the reasons as to why we've lost some of these traditional food crops. One is weather patterns, industrialization, modernization. So the government have invested heavily on the systemization of using modern methods of farming and hybrid seed crops for good harvest to the locals. So while doing this, the traditional knowledge of farming and its traditional food crops, they have been lost in the process. So that is one of the reasons as to why we've lost some of these food crops. Another thing, there was enough land for farming in the past because the population was low compared to the present time, as the population has grown big and many investments have been started in interior land that was initially used for farming. Another thing, rabbi community, cultural practices and its integrity was safeguarded by a council of car elders who employed a system of taboos and traditional rules to protect traditional food crops, forest and the entire landscape that preserved the seeds in the past. Today, the weak enforcement of laws by car elders during planting season and conservation of forest, coupled with the laws of cultural values that have traditionally been used to govern natural resources have laid to laws of traditional food crops and forest areas, which have a crops with relatives. Another thing is that the rapid population growth and erosion of cultural values by local communities have caused extensive loss of indigenous food system. And I will just mention a few challenges here. So that is one erosion of traditional knowledge, which has resulted to loss of jumping some for traditional crop varieties for the threatening food and nutrition security of the rabbi community. Another thing is inadequate awareness by modern farmers, mainly youth on the value of traditional food crops. The lack of a mechanism for transfer of traditional knowledge has further resulted to the neglect. And another thing is an important rituals and ceremonies conducted by car elders before our planting season and during harvesting of the food crops have been killed by modern population, religion and weakening of car elders council, which is a key traditional governance institution. And as a result, traditional food crops associated with these ceremonies have gradually been lost. The weak enforcement of traditional laws and erosion of cultural values and believed used to protect the traditional food crops, both on farmlands and in kaya forest have led to loss of these crops. And changing of whether our patterns as I've said before, the community has been experiencing prolonged droughts, which have been, which have affected traditional farming systems. Another thing that I've mentioned previously is industrialization. The population growth and urbanization has led to increased the damage for land for settlement and infrastructural development have put additional trace on natural resources and indigenous food system. So as a community, these are some of the responses that as a community, we thought they could be put in place like one, documenting of the traditional food crops that are available. Another thing is planting traditional food crops available in our forest to our homestead farms, domestication of weed plants on farmlands, and finally construction of a seed bank to preserve indigenous seeds. Thank you for your time. That is the end of my presentation. Thank you. Thank you so much, Lenox and Cadillo for that presentation. I think we now all feel a little bit sad because there's so many challenges, but equally a little bit happy because there's also some key responses that the research that we can do to help. I think there's both in the lecture and limbo case and then the China and in your case there are so many pressures as there's a sort of transition period happening now that we really need to try and work with these communities to support them to sustain the elements of their indigenous food system that are important. So, I realize we're a bit late with time. I hope with your indulgence we can stay till five past one. Please, the floor is open for any questions. Thanks very much to the Canyon colleagues for that presentation my name is Stephanie I'm from the Center for Agri ecology water and resilience at Coventry University in the UK. And I put my question also in the chat, because I wasn't sure if we have time so you mentioned traditional governance, and that you want to get in women and youth. And I wonder how you would like to do this and if women and youth are involved and participate in community meetings, for example on land use management. So participate and have a voice meaning that they are also involved in decision making and related to this who's in charge of the various tasks around indigenous food systems. And I have to say in your presentations but I see one woman sitting there which is great, but I miss the voices of women. Well, should we ask Layla to answer then please Layla would you mind. Thank you. Thanks, Christina and thanks for the questions. So about the involvement of women and youth in traditional governance. Initially, the Kaya Elders Council, comprised of men only but in the recent past in view of the issues that are related natural resource management that women are heavily involved in. So it was expanded to accommodate women. So the main challenge currently has been how to get the youth on board, but they've been a lot of sensitization and also some forums that are aimed at transferring the TK based knowledge to the youth. And also through the traditional ceremonies, the youth are normally brought on board. So over time, they're becoming receptive. But again, with some fail challenges, the main challenges that participation in the Kaya Elders Council is mainly voluntary. And the youth are more concerned about what they can get in terms of the monetary gains. So strides are being made to bring on board the youth, but it's a bit slow. So we are doing more sensitization at the community level. And the Elders are beginning to impress the youth more and transfer the TK based knowledge. The second question on who heads the tasks or who is tagged with the tasks related to indigenous food systems. So I would say it's the Kaya Elders Council, but mainly with regard to preservation of the food plants within the Kaya forest. So because of the gap of how to probably find an expanded governance structure that can cater for both the farmlands and the forest. Then that is why my colleague Chemu mentioned that perhaps we need to consider how we can expand the Kaya Council of Elders mandate to include both the conservation in the forest and on farmland. Or perhaps come up with an alternative governance mechanism that can involve maybe the village conservation committees to see how we can include conservation of both farmlands and forests in the wider framework of the landscape approach to conservation. Thank you. Just to add what Layla said, the cultural village within the landscape is also partly in charge of this indigenous food system because that's where we are also trying to preserve some of the food crops that are quickly being lost. And this cultural village is being run by my colleagues who have just spoken and the Kaya Elders are also members of that particular village. In terms of youth and women, apart from what Layla has mentioned, it's also the cultural village which brings the youth more to participate in cultural ceremonies and festivals just to embrace the indigenous food because during those ceremonies, the food that is usually prepared is mainly traditional and using indigenous food. Thank you. Thank you very much. So one last quick question from anyone, otherwise we will close now because we've slightly run over. I have a quick question. It's good to hear about the successes of cow pee. Can I ask if that's also met with a renewed or increased interest from consumers so are there more people buying cow pee, as well as the new varieties being grown. Thank you Kasper for that particular question. I think cow pee is a very popular indigenous vegetables in our restaurant and even high-end hotels and the demand for cow pee I can say is very high that even the supply, the current supply cannot meet what the market is demanding. That's why we are saying that if we can focus more on this, develop the cow pee as a vegetable, then we can contribute to livelihoods and at the same time promote conservation of the indigenous food. Thank you very much. Yeah, and it has many advantages because you can use the leaves, you can use the seeds, both, yes. Thank you so much, and I should have introduced Leila and Dilo who's a researcher assistant, well a researcher at Kefrey who is the research assistant on the HRC project. So I just wanted to thank all of the presenters today. It's been really fascinating, really informative and wonderful to interact with you. And thank you for all the questions and all the participants, and we will see you tomorrow for to continue the conversation. So have a good indigenous food lunch, I hope. Goodbye.