 Yarn, welcome to the body movement. Thanks for having me on. It's good to be here. It's very cool to have somebody like you who's kind of in the public sphere. You're doing TV spots. You're on Lex Freeman's podcast. You're on some prominent stuff. And you were just nice enough to connect over social media, be responsive to my notes. It's just very cool to see this podcasting space and people that are kind of out there willing to help others that are kind of growing. Sure, absolutely. I mean, it's an interesting space. And it's becoming more and more influential. It's becoming bigger and bigger. And since there's a number of people watching, and I think it's great as an alternative source of opinion and alternative source of news, alternative source of media. It's great. Yeah. I mean, does it align with, and for our listeners, they'll know you better than us even probably. But for your listeners, like being an Ann Ryan objectness individualist, are you encouraged by the growing of the podcast market and all these opinions with the downside of, you know, there's not fact-checking as much. It's just anybody, me and my sister, we just started this. We hook up a couple of mics, get the webcam going, and who's to say we're an expert. So it becomes harder to, you know, filter all this stuff. But more ideas are out there now. Yeah. I think it's great. I think long-term, there has to be a filtering mechanism and the markets will evolve one, I think. Yeah. And, you know, it's a tragedy that we've lost kind of the mainstream media as some kind, as a news, objective news source, because we need that. The fact is that most podcasters can't do reporting. They, you know, they don't go out into the streets and report about the news. They don't fly to Ukraine and tell us how many tanks are really on the border and what's really going on. And it's really crucial for all of us, for civilization, to have an objective media source. Opinion is relatively cheap. Facts are hard to get. They require real work and they require real ability. And I think we're gonna miss the old New York times, if you will, or the old, I mean, even the old New York times was pretty biased and pretty bad, but the idea of the New York times, the idea of somebody going out there and getting the news and reporting it and bringing it out. But once that is done, once we have this basis, shared source of information, objective information, it's fabulous that we increase the number of people expressing opinions about it, maybe even expanding the availability of news because they're bringing in local information or specialized information. And so, yeah, it's great to see and I think this is going to flourish in the future. I do think there will develop mechanisms to produce factual information in order to filter, kind of to fact check who are the good guys and who are not. Yeah, I've hit the wall with institutions. And it's like, it's why we started our podcast, like not only with the news, but education and healthcare and finance. The reason we started this is if you go on in the health and wellness space in healthcare and physical therapy and pain management, there's a lot of flashy accounts out there doing cool exercises that aren't good for people that speak to the wrong audience and they get likes and they get the views. And so, my sister here who's just an expert in PT is always fixing something with me. Like, hey, my shoulders messed up, my hips messed up and I'm doing this and she's like, you're just way off base, dude. Here's what I've got. So it's like- No more like, do you know the basics first? Like, I don't mind sexy and flashy, but Ken, if you can't hold a plank, why are you doing this? So and as we've gone through the podcast, I think that's what we've seen across the disciplines is this loss of the foundational principles of everything to the sexy marketing. And how do you counteract that? And how do you counteract that when the basics are not sexy for anything? That's the risk that you run by opening this world up to anybody and anybody who can come on and say, I'm an expert on diet or I'm an expert on fitness and follow me. And this is, while you might be tired of institutions, we need them, right? So this is the role traditionally of institutions is to say, these guys are quacks and here's some objective knowledge about it. And they might not always get it right, but they're at least trying to get it right and people learn to respect them and to use those guides. But the fact is the institutions around us are crumbling, are you losing credibility? And as a consequence of that, we're gonna need new institutions, right? The solution is not in a sense of free fall. The solution is new institutions that have reformed the existing ones. There's no easy way out without creating alternative institutions to what we have today. Yep, so I definitely wanna touch on that, but to kind of just keep it a little lighter here in the beginning to new institutions because in a way, that is what Alison's doing in her field. I wanna see how you see it kind of going globally. I wanna do the cliche stuff though. You're participating in this market. You're highly opinionated. I've listened to you, I came across you on Lex as I'm sure many people did. I'm sure that's elevated you somewhat. So, I'm so opinionated though that it elevated me and reduced me at the same time, right? Well, hundreds of thousands of people now hate me as a few tens of thousands like me and that's the balance, unfortunately. And that was my question. You're on national global TV shows, opinion shows. You're on public debate stages. You go on a show like Lex who has over one to, somewhere between one and five million followers and you get a hundred thousand views. You can talk about Ayn Rand. It's now you're putting your ideas out there. So, how has that been for you now that we're talking about all these opinions out there? You're one of the guys doing it. And how is that tension? How has it, have you become more grounded? Have you become more inward introspective in looking at your ideas and being like, maybe I'm off based on some of this stuff? Or are you like, geez, this is, I just got to take a step back, evaluate and repurpose, reword the way I'm communicating this to the market so that it's not such a hot debate. It's more of a conversation where you're trying to educate people. Well, I hope that I do that to a large extent. I think, yeah. And there was a sense in which going on Lex is very different, let's say, than what I used to do 15 years ago when I used to go on Bill O'Reilly or some of the Fox show where you have three minutes and you want to lob as many bombs into the thing over three minutes because that's how you get people's attention. That's how you remember you. That's how they'll follow you. And of course, in those days, there was no mechanism for them to follow you. Maybe go to a website, but we know now how much websites suck at really attracting attention. Social media has changed that. It's completely revolutionized the way in which we market ourselves and the way in which we can engage with people. And social media is a huge positive revolution in that sense in spite of all the negatives associated with it and the negatives that people hear about it. So that has morphed into a kind of, I was shocked first time Lex approached me and I said, well, how long is the interview? I thought, okay, an hour, right? Which is kind of a kind of standard I had done Dave Rubin and Dave Rubin had this format of an hour and that had hundreds of thousands of views. And then he says, no, we'll just chat for three, four hours. And it was like, what are you nuts? How does that happen? And yet the beauty of Lex and his ability is that he just lets it flow and he's a great interviewer and the three hours go like that and you don't need to pay attention. And of course I love that format. It allows me to take very controversial ideas instead of lobbing bombs out there that provoke and create cognitive dissonance. We can now walk through a whole argument. We can discuss it and debate it. And I've been on this show three times twice with other people with kind of a back and forth which I think also helps. So I love the format. I can't say that it's changed anything about me or about what I do. This is more natural in a sense that I've always preferred the long format to a short format and you develop the skills. You have to, as a public intellectual, develop the skills to address either one, whatever is thrown at you. If somebody called me up today and had me on TV for three minutes, I could do that, although it's a lot less fun than sitting down with somebody like Lex and having a conversation. Yeah, it's really cool and it's encouraging as like me and my sister and we're a much more niche market. We're talking about injuries and pain management and health care, but you watch a show like that on YouTube and it's three guys sitting, talking monotone at a kitchen table and I watched all four hours of you and Michael Malis. Yeah, a lot of people did. Yeah, and I didn't even realize it was going by. So it's encouraging that some feedback that I got from a couple of people else, you didn't know, this is our podcast. They're like, your podcast is kind of boring. Like you're just sitting there talking about plantar fasciitis for 45 minutes. I go, yeah, but somebody's gonna watch that. There's a market for it. We gotta hone our skills and get better at it, et cetera. But the fact that somebody can watch just three people talking at a table about something like that and you're getting hundreds of thousands to millions of views, I think is a sign in the right direction that the market is starting to do that filtering that you're talking about. Yeah, and look, it filters in the fact that Lex has 1.4 million followers or whatever the number is today. But it filters in all kinds of direction, right? Joe Rogan has, I don't know how many people, 20 million people. And some of this stuff is good and some of this stuff is crap and that's true probably of everybody. But the market is, what's interesting is that in a world of short attention spans, in a world where we've been told, I remember being told over and over again by marketing people, three minutes, everything has to be three minutes. Do short videos that suddenly for our videos would generate hundreds of thousands of views. That's shocking. It turns the paradigm upside down and that's a good thing. So the fact that the culture is eager to embrace long format discussions, debates, maybe the next revolution will be people to start reading again. Yeah, but that's what I, by the way, that would be huge. And that's where I'm at in my intellectual journey kind of started. There is no intellectual journey without reading. Sorry, people out there in podcast land. But if you don't read, you're not doing an intellectual journey because the pacing of reading is completely different than the pacing of talking. When I read, I can slow down, I can read a paragraph twice, I can underline. And it's just like, movies are not the same as novels. And the experience of reading a good novel is deeper and more profound than any movie you will watch because it's so much more conceptual because it takes longer because you live in that universe not for an hour and a half, but for days and sometimes weeks of the novel is long enough and powerful enough. So slowing down in certain aspects of our lives is a good thing because it allows us to go deeper in terms of the knowledge that we're acquiring and the experiences that we're acquiring. Yeah. I wonder, you know, like in this journey or everybody's journey in the social media and the books and where, you know, how we're flowing is, I almost see it as a journey of learning to be non-judgmental again. Like, I feel like everything has been like, so, and not being, you know, having your opinions and being judgmental but at the same time hearing things. So like a four-hour conversation with people who might disagree with you and have different opinions is, you know, stepping back and hearing these opinions and digesting them. Like, almost like you were saying, reading the paragraphs versus just being, no, I don't like that. Yes, I like it. No, I don't like that. Like hear it, see it, feel it. Where are people with that? One of, you know, one of the people in the healthcare system that I follow a ton was like, he had a great post the other day that was saying, you know, I used to make, you know, be very judgmental of people's exercising and what people were doing with movements. He's like, but now we know there's this huge inactivity crisis that nobody's moving. So thankfully these people are doing these exercises. They might not be the best but at least they're doing it compared to 80% of Americans that aren't. So, you know, instead of putting these people down who are trying to make a difference, let's make everybody rise to the top and not judge people so much and not be so polarized by the opinions, I guess. More so than let's hear each other and make a shift together as a culture versus, you're right, I'm wrong. This is what it is. That's what it is. Yeah, I think a lot of this, I think a lot of this has to do with what it means to be judgmental. We have too many people in the culture have a tendency to judge emotionally and to judge on the moment and the instant and from a sound bite. I am all for judging. We should judge everything. But judging means, I think, to be thoughtful, considerate, take into account all the evidence, all the facts and then make an evaluation. Judge to judge is not to instantaneously, oh, I have a negative emotion about this. It must be bad. Your emotions are often wrong. All of our emotions are often wrong. So emotions are not tools of cognition. They're not mechanisms that we should judge. So we should judge, but we should judge rationally. And indeed we should, everything we do should be rational. And what we see is we live in a culture which is dominated by emotion. Dominated by gut, by whim, by doing whatever I feel like doing or whatever I feel like, and judging based on emotion. I'd like us to move to a judgmental culture, but where the judgment, the source of that judgment is thought. And that can be fast. You can't judge people fast that way. You have to listen to them. You can't judge an argument without understanding the argument while listening to the argument. So I might say that is a horrible, evil argument. But I better know what the argument is before I say that, right? Right, right. In that sense, we need to slow down. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with saying something's evil if you've thought about it. When one of my friends asked how I got you on the podcast, I said, I just emailed and asked him. And then jokingly I put dot, dot, dot. And I said, and I told him, I'm sick and tired of communists. So it's just like- And then do it. I mean, I'm very open to being on people's podcast because you have a different audience than I do. You have a different audience than a lot of the other podcasts I do. It's a great way to just engage with new people and to be exposed to new people. And so, believe me, there are a lot of people who hate communism that I would not go on their podcast with them. So- Right, you're fair enough. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so now that like we kind of talked through that market stuff, I'd love to get into- So I've recently, I've had Anne-Reynn's books for many years. By the way, it's Ayn. Ayn, right. Yeah, I'm- I always, I've- Tomorrow I might have been saying- Tonight, today I might have been saying Ayn and then tomorrow I would say Ayn. So, yeah. In any event, I've been reading your, I've read her books in the past year. I've had them for many years. Again, your appearance on Lex with Michael Maels kind of turned me on to that in your first appearance too. You said, you know, reading your stuff just kind of made sense to you. Like, you read it and you didn't know what was kind of off in the world and you read it and you're like, all of a sudden it kind of hits a little different. You're like, yeah, she kind of touched on that stuff. Our podcast, The Body Movement in BODY stands for Bill on Developing Yourself. We're, own your health, take it back. Don't be reliant on the healthcare system. Yes, we've made great advance in medicine but they're monetizing our illness these days. The food industry is kind of a little bit corrupt and incentivized to market. So we're saying the way to compete with this market is to build new institutions with the way Alison's doing it stepping out of the healthcare system building a cash-based practice where she just offers, it's capitalism, it's free market. Come see me, no health insurance. So this idea of individualism and objectivism is attractive to me. I think I'm kind of bought full, almost fully into it. I'm still exploring it. Have you seen, again, you said you got a lot of elevation and a lot of hate after your first co-appearance on life. Have you seen it, is it split 50-50 on getting these ideas out? No, I mean, clearly it's 80-20 with 80 people hating and 20 liking, at least, maybe 90-10. I mean, look, so I go on Lex, maybe on the first appearance, I get 1,000 additional followers out of, I don't know, 300,000 people who viewed it and then viewed all the clips and all that. So I'm getting a tiny fraction, the same thing happened with Dave Rubin. I'm getting a tiny fraction, it's better than nothing, but I'm not convincing 80%, I'm not convincing a majority, I'm not even convincing half other people to investigate further and to want to do more. No, look, what I'm in offers and what I try to promote are ideas that go against the mainstream, against everything that people believe in, in the deepest parts of their psyche. That is, it's not just a different business proposition or a different even political view, it's a different view of the world about the purpose of your life, our morality, and that is a real challenge to people in terms of the ability and the willingness to engage. Yeah, and that's just crazy to me. And then recently, and your most recent one with Yoram, you mentioned that you are kind of feel like you're losing this battle of preaching this stuff. So I don't know how you see this, but is the way to keep doing it is just to keep appearing and talking about it, is the way to kind of preach this message, is it building a better community? It's something I think I'm on board with and I want, because I want more of those debates to keep happening, but if- So if there were thousand people like me who agreed with me, who were committed to being public intellectuals, who committed to being in these ideas and so forth, I think we would win. It's a numbers game to some extent, right? I mean, I might piss off 80%, 90%, but maybe somebody else arguing the same ideas would do a better job, or appeal to a different segment, or if they hear it in different voices from different people repeatedly, it would have an impact, or for those of people who are out there who are just followers, maybe they just become followers because, hey, a lot of people are saying this. So there is a sense in which it's a numbers game. Part of my job is to help train more people who can do this, who can get out there and articulate these ideas. It takes a long time to change your culture. Particularly when you're trying to change it fundamentally, you're challenging the fundamental beliefs of the culture, that's gonna take a long time and it requires a lot of work and a lot of effort. You know, you need a right, you need to speak, you need to communicate, any form of communication. So I'm hoping that over the next few years we'll have writers, we'll have speakers, we'll have social media experts, we'll have people, podcasters, we'll have people out there who are taking Ayn Rand's ideas, applying them to their particular area of expertise and just spitting the word and getting people engaged and getting people interested. That's how we reverse the trend. But we are losing, there's no question. I mean, all these other ideas, socialism's on the rise, nationalism's on the rise, the old right, the old left, the new right, the new left, all of these ideas because they don't challenge anybody in a deep dramatic fashion. They're all just variation on a theme and people can easily engage with them. What I'm doing is asking people to really, really, really question their most fundamental beliefs. Yeah, go ahead, Al. No, I'm just gonna say the fundamental beliefs and the technical term that we throw around, sometimes it's not you and I, Matt, but some of the groups I'm in is just a mind fuck. I mean, it's all the time. It's called a cognitive dissonance, right? It's called a cognitive dissonance. Great dissonance in people's minds. And that's hard for people. People like to be in groups, they like to agree with other people. You're asking them to think for themselves. You're asking them to have opinions that are different than everybody else's. And part of it is you have to model that. You have to model that it's okay to think differently that you can be successful and think differently. But if you get a large enough group doing it in a variety of different fields, from education to health to physics, to a whole array of these, then you slowly start chipping away at the culture. Yeah, and that's... Go ahead, Al. Sorry, I got one more thing. In chipping away at that culture also comes down to, for me, like doing that with my kids. Like my daughter came home the other day and she's like, Mom, am I different? And I was like, yeah, you're damn right, you're different. What's wrong with that? And she's like, well, I don't know. I just feel different. And I was like, explain to me, and asked me some deep questions about being... She's six about being different. And I'm like, well, does it bother you? She's like, no, I like it. I was like, great. She's like, are you different? I'm like, I hope so. I'm like, I hope I'm different. I hope people see me as a weirdo. I want that. Yeah. And I wonder, and I don't... I have no idea what goes on in other households about like, oh, fit in, do this, do that. What do you want? What do you want? Because I'll help facilitate what you want, not what I want or what this is about. A lot of people are conventional. A lot of people are followers. A lot of people train their kids to be conventional, be like everybody else, be like the standard. And weirdness and defense and standing out is found upon. I mean, my parents were like that. My parents did not like that you were different, did not like the kids being particularly too smart, too different. They wanted average. They wanted to be like... Yeah. And I just like, it's funny with the kids is like, how do we continue to facilitate that growth through them? It's to the point where, when we talk about school and doing homework and all that, like, yes, we're doing that. We come home, we do our homework, we're doing our things. And I questioned some things about the homework. Like, my daughter just likes to get it done and throw it away. And I'm like, okay, is it too easy? What is it? What's not, what do you like about it? And yes, we're doing our homework and handing in, but it's like, growing up, we were all like, grades, grades are the most important thing. And now I'm like in my head like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know. Like I have kids I know that I treat that aren't the best in school, but they're awesome kids and they're doing great things. And what can they do is so far beyond like what your grade in school is. And really for me changing my perspective on that from the way we grew up and not saying I don't want my children to succeed, but it looks different these days than it did 20 years ago. And how do we keep up with those thought processes other than having conversations and reading and developing our own judgments, if you will. I mean, I think that's the only way to do it. I mean, the work is hard work. It's about reading and thinking and having conversations and engaging with the world, not shutting yourself away from the world, but engaging with it. Yeah. And again, and to your point, like you said, you're chipping away at this stuff, at this messaging. And like the way we're doing it with health cares, again, I've said this on like four or five podcasts with our, with our, with other physicians and experts we've had on. But like I've, I've thrown in the towel on healthcare. Like I really just thrown in, like I've given up on it. And Alison's again, she's on cash base. So she doesn't deal with the system and ties into everything you were saying. She can now see a patient for two hours and go deep into their history and talk and think and get a plan going. But they got to pay her a premium and this market. And guess what? Her patients are getting better than they ever did when she was in the established healthcare system. There's no question that that's true. The challenge, of course, is how do you scale that? And you can't scale it and change the system. And the, and this is why it's important to fight for the right ideas. And it's not, it's not about, it's about fighting for freedom. It's about fighting for the government getting out of the healthcare business completely. Zero interference from the government. Getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid, which is pretty radical, but that's what it means to get the government completely out of healthcare. And then letting the market evolve. And who knows how the market will evolve? What new institutions will arise? What new payment schemes will arise? I think insurance is really, really important, but not the kind of insurance we have today, which pays people from dollar number zero or the kind of insurance today, which is heavily regulated, heavily controlled by the government. You only can sell insurance policies that the government approves of. But imagine a real free market in it where people are offered catastrophic insurance. Only if really something really, really bad, just like auto insurance, right? You don't pay for every little fender bender on your insurance doesn't cover it. They don't cover the oil changes. They pay you if, like the real reason to have an auto insurance is if it's a total wreck, right? If you go into the hospital, if you have surgery, you know, a hundred thousand dollars, a lot of money to pay for something big like that. But the fact is that most things in healthcare don't cost a hundred thousand dollars. Most things in healthcare, most people can afford and they don't need insurance that covers them from dollar zero. They can pay out a pocket, particularly if they stop having to pay into the system through, you know, 50% marginal tax rates, through Medicare, through all of the stuff that the government sucks from us. And in a free market, what happens to prices? The fact is what happens to prices because of competition is prices come down. They don't go up. So if Allison faced a lot of competition, she would have to reduce prices because of the competition, right? So that's the reality. But perform better. But perform better or something. We had sent it to perform better, you mean. Yeah, but competition drives down prices and up quality. That's what happens. And that's great for everybody, right? So, you know, what we need is to get government out of healthcare, but to get government out of healthcare requires a whole chain of reasoning that goes back to a view of government, a view of the economics, but also a view of ethics, a view of what is just and what is right and what is wrong, to a view of epistemology, that is how do we know anything? How do we know what's right? How do we know what's wrong? How do we know what's a fact? How do we know what's... So the real battle is a philosophical battle in order to fail healthcare system, right? But that's what we ultimately need to do is to completely revolutionize healthcare, finance, education, everything. Everything, government has its hands to date in every single aspect of our life and it needs to get out. The only thing government should do is protect us, protect us from frauds and criminals, everything else. We can do voluntarily between us, better, cheaper and more effectively. Yeah, and again, that's exactly what I was doing. And then we had a dietician on a couple episodes ago and she's doing her own thing in the nutrition world and it got me thinking of Atlas Shrugged in, you know, Galt's Galtware. I mean, think about nutrition. Why the hell does the government have a food pyramid? Why is the government telling me what's good for me and what's not for me? And to what extent do you think that food pyramid has impacted by the dairy lobby, which is pretty powerful in Washington, you'd be surprised, or by the wheat lobby, or by the corn lobby. We know the corn lobby is influential with ethanol, which impacts gas prices, right? So, I mean, and the sugar lobby, there's a massive sugar lobby in DC, which makes, by the way, corn syrup cheaper than sugar because of the corn lobby. I mean, it's so convoluted and so complicated, but the fact is it's so much of the health advice we get from government and so much of the nutritional advice we get from government is driven by particular lobbies and particular political agendas. The farm, the wheat and corn farmers are huge because they dominate the Midwest, right? They're all over the Midwest. So if you're a senator from Kansas, are you gonna have a negative opinion of corn or ethanol? Of course not. Now, should you have an opinion? Should any politician ever have an opinion about corn and ethanol? My answer to that is no. I agree. A politician should not have a position about food, about nutrition, about health, about diet, about exercise, about anything. Because it's none of their business. That's something I take care of for myself and I don't need guidance for a politician who has about the knowledge of a second grader has applied to almost anything in life. I mean, these guys are not smart. They're not knowledgeable. They're not well educated. The technical term for most of them is morons. I mean, they are power-lusting idiots, right? And we've given them power. We've given them power over every aspect of our lives. The only thing they should be concerned about is protecting us. And even then they're not qualified. We need better politicians, right? Than what we have today. So I believe better politicians are possible, but not if they have to run every aspect of our lives. If you ask people to run for politics and say, what's the qualification? That you can run other people's lives. Well, only bad people, only bad people are going to want that job. I don't want that job. I don't want to run your life. I'm not interested in running your life. It's hard enough to run mine, right? So why would I want that job? So by definition, you get bad people who all they really seek in life is power over others. That's the qualification. I mean, you go ahead. That was- No, I was going to say, but you know the four. I mean, the last, there's no question over the last four years personally, like personal growth and understanding of the world and stuff like this. And it's like every day is a mind blowing day for me and talking to people. Some of that is the ability that I have to talk to people. So, you know, from clients, I have one runs of nitrogen gas business and I never ever would have known the connection between corn and nitrogen gas in my entire life. So I was sitting and chatting with this gentleman in my office that's there for some type of pain. And then I have a woman who was in charge between Ukraine and Russia about the flow of water and understanding how the flow of water is extremely political and how it impacts power. And like some of these things that are just mind blowing, like I just sit there like this, like talking to people. But like, so I think, you know, the, not even ignorance, but just the naivety of where we are of understanding the world is so hard for people to keep up with. And, you know, the more you're exposed to that and is that through reading, through reading, you know, the exposure to the world is something that I'm kind of struggling with. I'm like, how do you know? Or how do you even know where to look? And how do you even know how to get these perspectives other than if you travel or if you do this and that? Because the perspective on the world drives so much knowledge of the need to maintain independence and of how you don't even realize that you're being controlled or where the power is and to start to see some of these things. So, you know, from somebody sitting back, not quite 43 little kids working on building a business, you know, to keep up with what the world is happening. This is why it's ridiculous. This is why the institutions get so big, right? Because you shouldn't have to. The fact is that life is complicated. There's a lot to do. You've got three kids, you've got a job, you've got, you know, just a lot on your shoulders. You know, I mean, really, what do you care about what's going on in Ukraine? I mean, the only reason you should care about what's going on in Ukraine is if you don't trust your political leaders and that what your political leaders might do might result in your kids ultimately being drafted into a military to go fight a war. I mean, that's why you should care, right? But if we had politicians who we trusted, if we had an economic and political system that we trusted in, then most people wouldn't care about politics, right? They'd be hunkered down, trying to do the best job that they can to achieve happiness for themselves, which is fun, interesting, and requires a lot of focus and energy, right? And so it's only because we've given our politicians so much control over our lives. And so many of them are bad and incompetent. They're now going, I need to worry about my water because politicians control it. I need to worry about the food I eat because, hey, it turns out that the politicians recommended this food pyramid that is completely upside down and completely nuts and has no relation with health. I need to worry about healthcare because I can't necessarily trust my doctor because the government has provided him with these perverse incentives. And it's not even that he's a bad guy, but he has to kind of follow certain rules. He can't prescribe medicines that the FDA hasn't approved. He can't prescribe treatments that are not acceptable because otherwise he won't get compensated by Medicare or whatever. So the government makes so many of the people we should be trusting brain dead, just like of a mentality of following orders that it becomes very, very difficult. Now, what you need to do in the world in which we live is develop trusted sources, but even that is hard. And even that is difficult because somebody like Joe Rogan, who half the time it's good stuff and half the time it's complete garbage, well, how do you tell, can you tell which is the half that's good and which is the half is garbage? So we live in a world where it's very, very difficult. We're pounded by information. I will say this. Too many people get too much about politics and are not focused enough about their own life. And about their own life better and improving their own health and their own ability to live the best life that they can live. And if you too obsessed with what this guy said or that guy said, I mean, at the end of the day, you can't control it. Go live your life, make the most of your life. And you should worry about what the politicians are doing, but there's not much you can do about it anyway. So don't dominate your life. Yeah. And again, built on developing yourself. That's why we created this thing, right? It's like control, at least to have your health is something that's been quoted 1,000 times a day by society, it's a common phrase. That's kind of our message that I think scales across all the institutions. If you can manage your own finances, which is a whole another thing, but if you can keep a budget, if you can save more than you spend, if you can take care of your health, if you can eat right and you feel the best, now you can make a dent in maybe your local community. And slowly, and again, what I wanted to get to at the beginning of all this was, you said, we need 1,000 of you kind of preaching to stuff and chipping away. I don't think in our lifetime, and even me, you know, mine and L's that we're gonna see anything material change, but can you get it from a one to a four on the one through 10 scale? Can you get it from a two to a six in at least in your little communities? And hopefully that allows that scaling to happen that you were mentioning, like how do you get it to scale by building those little communities in your own networks? And hopefully that forces the institutions that compete with the success you're having, maybe. Yeah, I mean, what we need to do is a slow the deterioration away from liberty and freedom and rationality towards irrationality and authoritarianism. And then start reversing the trends, but both of that is difficult. Right now, the battle is to slow our descent into authoritarianism, because that's where we're heading. And I fear that that's where this country is heading, that's where the world is heading, and then reverse it. And that's gonna require a lot of work and a lot of effort by a lot of people. Yep, and it's encouraging because some of the guests we've had on and the health experts are going cash based, we did have a farmer on who does natural bison farming. They don't get certified USDA organic, they actually just write an affidavit on their website. We're better than organic, here's everything we do, you can trust this or not. And they pass that savings of not having an official come out and inspect their farm and pass that cost on to us. And they're like, you can trust this or not. And then they've built a distribution network with other local farmers that don't do bison, that do poultry, that do elk, that do rabbit, and say, we have the distribution set up, we'll buy your stuff at a premium so it doesn't get lumped in with the industrial farming because then it just goes to waste all your hard work. Something like that was really encouraging to hear we had her on a couple episodes ago, but again, the scaling is like, okay, we got to amplify that and inspire people to step outside and do it. And then it becomes scalable because it's decentralized, I think. I mean, my view on that too is you have to be careful not at the same time to demonize industrial farming because the fact is that industrial farming feeds the world. And yes, it's not ideal, it's not the optimal diet, but it's people are living longer, we'd love them to live a lot longer, but life expectancy has doubled over the last 150 or so years, people are living better, healthier lives than ever. And not if we can afford kind of the optimal diet. So it goes back to Allison's point about better to move, even if it's not optimal, then not to move at all. It's better to eat even if the food is not optimal, then not eat at all. And generally, I think technology can help us improve the quality of our food, improve the quality of what we consume. We don't have to demonize technology while promoting, let's say, better food. I think that's a dangerous trend among kind of people who advocate for organic or so. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then, and again, it was just encouraging they weren't necessarily demonizing and the farmer, the bicep farmer, she did give credit to the produce industry and organic does mean more there than it does in the meat industry and they can do that at scale. So there was some good stuff that came out of that on both sides, but again, the regulations around it, the fact that having that certified organic by the USDA, she's like on meat products, it doesn't even really mean anything, doesn't even mean anything. So there's definitely that fine balance that we totally get that. And again, you mentioned that you're seeing, and we all are, we've all said it on the podcast, we're seeing this in finance and education and healthcare and other institutions, probably even the prison system and just like you could go on and on. Yourself mean in finance, you gotta be going, you gotta be just kind of throwing your arms up these days, right? With everything, and I got my MBA in finance. And again, I know you're managing your portfolio probably pretty well because you understand all the constraints, but there's probably too many constraints. Yeah, I mean, the constraints are ridiculous and they're only growing, but look, nothing's really changed in a fundamental way in finance for a hundred years. I mean, industry's always been regulated. We've had a central bank since 1914. We've had the FDIC since 1933 or 34. The government has always had a heavy hand in the finance because of how important finance is and how significant finance is. So, you know, it's getting worse because the more it does, the bigger it grows, the more you overlay regulations over regulations over regulations, the more hazardous it all becomes. But, you know, you find, like in any other field, you find a way to navigate all that and to do the best you can within the constraints that are being placed on you. Yeah, for the average American, raising the family of three or just coming out with a little bit of student loan debt, I think the wealth gap that's been mentioned is a real thing that's happening. And... But you should never worry about gaps. Who cares about the gap? I mean, so some people are richer than you. So what? Of course. I mean, good for them. But what's important is are you being rewarded for the additional productivity that you provide, right? Are you being rewarded in proportion to the productivity? And then the other question is, is the gap a consequence of productiveness of people producing, or is the gap a product of government manipulation? And that of course is a question. And it's not clear to me, right? I mean, would the gap be bigger in the free market or smaller in the free market? I don't know, I don't care. In a free market, I don't care about gaps. All I care about are, am I being rewarded for my productivity and do I see a path for me to get better, to achieve things? You know, the challenge today is, what do you do with your money, right? The challenge today is you're trying to raise a family, you're trying to put away some money, you wanna send your kids to college, you wanna save some money for retirement. How do you do that? When interest rates are zero, when the stock market is all over the place, when inflation is 7%, right? I mean, money sitting in the bank, basically you're losing 7% of their money every year that you have it in there. How do you manage your finances in a world like this? It's very, very difficult. The only way to do it is to take on risk, but then if you take on a lot of risk, there's also downside, right? Risk means downside. So sometimes you get clobbered. To me, that's the challenge, but we focus too much on gaps and too little on opportunities. I agree. The real question is, do you have an opportunity for betterment? Do you have an opportunity to rise up? Do you have an opportunity to save money for your kids? Are your kids gonna be better off than you are if you take the right actions and if they take the right actions? Those are the real questions to be asking. Yeah, and I referenced the gap because of when you isolate all the variables out, I am of the opinion that some of this regulation, some of this centralization, some of this printing money and quantitative easing is benefiting the people that are already kind of well off and puts a few more hurdles in front of the common joke. It's not that they don't have the opportunities, it's not that they can compete in this market, but to your point with all these other institutions, it's a few more regulations of devaluing a currency where the person at the bottom of that, that it's gonna strive for something doesn't have the assets that are gonna appreciate at a rate that's gonna allow them to compete at a level over time and generationally. That isolation I don't, and again, I don't know if you look at that at your firm too much, but that's where I start to look at. And I know you're not a big, from your podcast with Lex and Malice, that you're not the biggest Bitcoin guy, but that's where I see maybe something like that at least provides a little bit of a hedge against this system of where you are. Look at what's happening right now, Bitcoin's down 50%. It is. So it's not a hedge, it's actually worse than the market. If you own stocks, you're down maybe 10%, if you own Bitcoin, you're down 50%. So I think it's very dangerous to sell Bitcoin as a hedge. It's a speculative asset. It might go up, it might not. You're taking on a huge amount of risk and a huge amount of volatility. And some people are gonna make a fortune, have already made fortunes off of Bitcoin, and other people are gonna lose a lot of money, right? I mean, if you got into GameStop, when it was a meme stock at the bottom and you sold at the top, you did great. But if you held it all the way till today, you didn't do great, you lost a lot of money. GameStop is down over 50% from last January, right? So it's, you know, this is the, I think an important point is, there are no get-rich-quick schemes up there. I agree. You could, some individuals get rich quick by chance because they're always lucky people, people in the lottery. So people bought Bitcoin to some extent by accident at the right time and sold at the right time or whatever. Same thing with GameStop or whatever. But over the long run, there are no get-rich-quick schemes. The question is, is this the number? And I think, unfortunately, the system is rigged against most Americans today because it's very, very difficult to save. It's very, very difficult to invest. And our politicians are constantly, and the Federal Reserve is constantly manipulating the system in ways that make it much more difficult for the average individuals to be able to confidently save and invest for the future. And that's a challenge and that's a real challenge. And with your firm and your expertise, how do you, what is that little chip-away activity that's something that we can do? So again, in the intellectual realm, it's read more, write more, introspect, think, watch a four-hour podcast, take some notes at research. In health, it's take the time out of yourself. And in the financial world, what is that like little mini-step that somebody, especially like the younger kids coming out of colleges, like what's that little mini-step? Is it the same principles that we've been, that our parents just stash away and save? Where can they put that long-term plan into place? It's very difficult, but this is what again, institutions are important. Financial advice is a good. I think young people going out there and speculating then that's not the solution. That's not how you're gonna get successful in life. What you need is a steady long-term program. And a steady long-term program really means, it means having a diversified portfolio, not day trading, letting experts do their job and not pretending that you know how to invest because you know, I don't know, physical therapy, right? You're an expert in physical therapy. I wouldn't try to do that. Why are some people pretending that because they read a few posts on Reddit, they can now compete with me in finance. I'm gonna eat their lunch. And that's a reality. And over the long run, they're gonna lose. I'm gonna win. But it seems like in certain areas like finance, people think that you can be an amateur and you can win, you can't. You've gotta develop the skills or you've gotta hire experts to do, again, institutions to do the job. If I need, my body improved, I need to go to a physical therapist, a trainer. I need to get, I need to buy expertise. The same thing for a young person coming out of college. You wanna start saving. Then you've gotta, you don't have enough money to hire a financial advisor, but at some point you've gotta get advice, maybe, or at the very least, take a finance course. But don't try to be a day trader. Day trading is for suckers. Day trading is people, professionals like, maybe not like me, because I don't, I'm not opposite day traders, but professional investors, people who oppose at this, love day traders. Yeah, yeah. Because it's, you know, you make money off of them. Yeah. This has been, this has been, just so, this is so much to think about, but it's really, it's great to hear. I'm a proponent of your message. I'm still investigating and researching and reading more of Rand's work. I love the idea of everyone investing in themselves and pursuing their selfish interests that doesn't cause harm to anyone actually does build up the collective. It seems like all these things that we talked about today, it's like, if you just start with yourself, if you just start with your family and you're not causing malice to anyone else by doing it at their expense, it's a way to make these institutions slowly deteriorate. I don't see a way to go right at them. And it feels like that's the way versus worrying about politics and debating with your family about nothing that matters. Just kind of taking a look and understanding your own values. If it feels like that approach makes the most sense, but, and it's just really interesting that all the feedback you get from your recent appearances that seem to go against it. And is it just because of it's attached to Rand? Do you think if you weren't preaching her work that you might be received better? I don't know, maybe. I think in the United States, there's a negative attachment to Rand. I think so many of the case, but I don't think it's just that. I think the ideas are radical and people have a hard time with them. That's just objectively true. In other countries, there's less of an attachment that's against Rand. But even they, you get resistance. So I think it's overall, just a radical message that people have a hard time getting in the head of them. I think tying some of our other podcasts and we had a sex therapist on, right? And the whole thing about that was in sex therapy, it's getting to your deepest, darkest place. Like talking about you and that's not comfortable and we're not, and I don't know if it would be something we're educated on or like, but the comfortability with your deepest, darkest self. I mean, a lot of what we're talking about from the foundational principles on whatever scheme it is, really comes down to confronting who you are and what you're doing. And I think there's, in my opinion, there's nothing more scary to people about who your deepest person is. Yarn did a whole, a little whole segment on sex a couple of weeks back, just like, say you should buy it. I ended up talking about sex. It's something that obviously interests people and I have opinions, so what the hell? Yeah. Right? But yeah. But the deepest, darkest self, I think scares people, you know, in whatever realm. Well, not all of us have dark, right? No, I'm not sure. The deepest places. Alison's tipping her hand here. Yeah, you're right. And Julie, you know, one of the things we need to get away from in the culture is that there's a certain orientation that we get from religion, that sex is dark. They don't talk about sex. Sex is amazing, beautiful, it's phenomenal. And you know, the darkness comes from the fact that people are so repressed about sex. They can talk about sex. They feel ashamed about sex. We get that from religion. We need to abandon all of that. It's, you know, anyway, that's what we need to... It's part of this agenda is to get it right. Yeah, I love that. I like the calling me on the darker spot because sometimes Matt will say things and I call him out. I'm like, but it's not that, it's not dark, it's beautiful. There's, you know, and that's the same thing. Like, you know, for people in mental health, to be able to talk about that freely, like most people have some type of mental health. Like it's not a, it's not even an abnormal. Like it's a normal. And how do we flip those abnormal things to being normal? How do we change it? You know, in the sex world, being uncomfortable talking about sex, but our kids are comfortable playing games or they're shooting people in the face with guns. Like, what makes you stop this stuff? You know? Well, much more comfortable with violence than what I was saying. Ah, it's crazy. I mean, violence should be like, oh my God. That's boggles my mind. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay to idealize gangsters, but if, you know, but sex is somehow, you know, it's completely insane. It's completely crazy. And it goes back to how we educate our kids and what the culture is all about. Yeah. But that move of what is, what everybody thinks is abnormal is actually normal findings. And in back pain, 80% of people have lumbar disc herniations that don't have symptoms. So why is this an abnormal finding? And, you know, how did we get so far away from, how is an 80% finding abnormal? How is that an abnormality? And, you know, so again, kind of across all those institutions of flipping what, you know, what we hide or what we've been shown to oppress versus like, no, this is reality. And this is who we are. And this is, you know, issues for many or not even issues, beautiful things for many in many cases. So, very interesting. Yeah. Yarn, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been great. I think, you know, and it's cool to talk about all these problems, but, you know, along the way, talking about little mini solutions we can take, I think is what we're built on. And, well, it's always fun to call politicians idiots because I love doing that myself. It is, and when it's true, but it's always inspiring to hear somebody who, you know, does see hope through doing what you're doing and putting yourself in the spotlight and sharing your ideas. Maybe we have you back down the road when I've continued to hone my intellectual ideas and maybe challenge you on some of the stuff. But I'm open to these ideas. And thanks for spending some time with us today. Sure, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on. Everyone.