 I am not a member of any political party, Loretta Onoche tells the Senate. And how can we raise pressure for Harry's ability to manage diversity so far? Well, this is press politics and I am Mary Annacol. Special assistant to the president on social media, Loretta Onoche, has denied her membership of the ruling all-progressive congress APC three times. Although this followed her screening by senators to determine her fitness for appointments as National Commissioner for the Independent National Electrical Commission, she said she parted ways with the APC and stopped her volunteer work with the Bohari support organisation in 2019. She admitted part of the Bohari campaign organisation in 2015. She left it before her appointment as special assistant on social media. She said those opposed to her nomination were after her because of her due process stands and believe in the rule of law. What's running us to discuss this is Opunabol in Quartaria. He's a political analyst and Isaac Obwobola, who is the river state's APC caretaker chairman. Thank you very much gentlemen for being part of the conversation. All right. I don't know if you can hear me. Please don't mute yourselves so you can hear me. I'm going to start with you Opunabol. Can you tell me exactly why you think, as an onlooker, the president seemed to be a bit obsessed with the idea of this woman being an INEC member of the electoral body. What exactly is the reason for the president's stance on making sure that she is a part of INEC's board because a lot of people have criticised her. There have been petitions written against her and she even had come to the Senate to allude to the fact that there have been several petitions against her. There have been several people who have kicked against it. Although she's saying this is because she has a stand on due process. Yes, Maryam, I honestly cannot appreciate or part of Mr President a moral romance, the transition of law policies and due process. I really cannot appreciate that because this is not the first time. We also have the issue of Magw, who was rejected by the Senate how many times, and the first president stopped on me, kept with the acting capacity despite the reports from the ex-presidents of GFS, which is even a part of the president. So this is another one now. Loretta, on the other hand, cannot look to get a membership of the APC. It is simple. I mean, I listen to the Paragraph of Lives and Absurdism, and I now feel as if it breaks on my nerves to hear Loretta. In 2019, she said she had designed a comic book in 2019, but in 2020, she also, in a court of law, admitted the fact that she is a member of the APC, and now, before the Senate, just yesterday or the day before, she has also denied. So this is a contradiction of Paragraph. How do you reconcile this story? She said she designed in 2019, and in 2020, she posted a course as a member of the APC, and introduced it to one because she has been nominated for commissionership of INE. She has denied it. So in fact, that denial has cast a further flaw upon her integrity, and it was one cannot certain is why if the Nigerian, the Senate, is saying or are saying that, look, we don't want a particular sentence for obvious reasons. For obvious, there are other competent hands, all over the country, including from the state, from an old state delta state. So if members are saying for obvious reasons we don't want a particular person, please, we are not saying we are going to give you another person. You drop that person and take another person of your choice that will generate less quarry. I don't know why that should be a problem. And work, work and extrapolate from this is simple because it is obvious that she remains a member of APC. So work, work and extrapolate from it is that there is an ulterior motive, an intention to re-election. But Mr President, it's not contested in 2013. So is it doing it for the party? This is the common ground. Otherwise, we don't want this woman. You also know Mr President that she will be a member of the party. A membership is not easy. It is not a sort of official membership. You already know that. And if you are generating a lot of quarry, why not just leave her and go for somebody else? This is why a lot of people are saying that the presidency is plotting to win the 2020 election. I mean, these are arguments or these are allegations, these are criticisms that ordinarily should have been avoided if you are just elected and selected somebody else. There are so many people that are die-hard right. So many people that are die-hard right. That even the world might not know. You just vote for them. I'm not dissenting, maybe. What is so particular about this, maybe, that you must get appointed? Well, I think that that's the question. I think that's the question I have for Mr Bobola. Well, before I go to Mr Isaac Bobola, I want us to go to that video from the National Assembly. Let's take a look at that video and then my question to Mr Isaac will come up. So, Mr Bobola, you are, of course, an APC-chifting in your state, and I'd like to refer you to the fact that the name in what for the register of the APC in Ani Ocha, local government area of Delta State, Loretta Al Noche. It's not been erased. It's not been taken out. If she's denying this outrightly, how does she hope to regain public confidence, even if she eventually is clared and approved by some stroke of miracle by the Senate? What kind of integrity is she supposed to portray as a commissioner on the electoral body? Mr Bobola, can you hear me? I think we have a problem with Mr Bobola's connection. Can you unmute yourself so we can hear you? Okay, I'm going to throw the question back to Opa Nabao. So, like I said to Bobola, you did hear my question. Opa Nabao, her name is in the ward register for Ani Ocha, and it's her full name, isn't it? Yes. So, what sort of integrity? Because, again, for us to have free, fair, credible elections, and this is something that we're aiming for come 2023, what sort of integrity is she bringing to the table with all of this hula balu and the embryo as to whether she is a member of the APC or not, and we could see her live on tape denying her membership? Well, like I said, if you listen to Bobola's statement, I said, if that's what I've got to show on hand, because it is obvious that... Oh, I don't know what is wrong with this. Sorry about that. Because it is obvious that she's a member of the APC. No doubt about it. That's the thing we've fragmented. And now she's gone on air to say, and made Matthew, after taking an oath, a court in 2020, she did not after the... I hope that the same court, or anywhere, to say she hasn't signed her membership, the oath she took in court still stands. And that is why I think it's going to have, in fact, negative significance on her integrity. And with this, even if she is led by the Senate, a lot of people will believe, even if APC, with their national free and fair, wherever she's sent to, a lot of people will believe that she must have manipulated the election. Let me tell you, even in the court of law, when you have an issue against the presiding judge, and you write and establish it, there are matters before that judge is transferred, those are to avoid bias, and to ensure... I've got to be clear, it does justice to it. Who says justice must not only be seen to have been done, but must not only be done, but must be seen to have been done. In the eyes of the public, it should be seen that sagacity prevailed. That is the problem we are having. And that is why a lot of us are saying, since her appointment is generating a lot of criticism, why not drop her? We can hear you, Mr Bwbola. We can hear you. Can you hear me? Okay, I'm sorry to cut in, Mr Funabo. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yes. Yes. Okay, thank you. For me, we both, at this point, learned to respect constituted authorities. If we voted people to go to the National Assembly, and they are there, legitimately carrying out their responsibilities, should we not give them the opportunity to finish whatever is before them, the assignment before them? If you bet your Nigerians have sent their complaints, perhaps, back with evidence, so you allow that institution to do its work and not try to in any way influence the outcome of that process. When you say influence, I'm sorry, Mr Bwbola. I need to come in there. When you say try to influence, nobody really can influence the Senate. The normal way is to write petitions, is to send letters and evidence if you have any, and I think that many people have done so. But when you say try to influence, who are the people you are referring to and who has the power to try to influence what the Senate is doing? In fact, trying to intimidate the National Assembly. Who? Well, I saw... Who is trying to intimidate the National Assembly? Elder Brother Secondus, the National Party Chairman of the PDP, need a protest, an open protest to the National Assembly. That's intimidation. But it is the constitutional right. Every Nigerian has a right to peaceful protest as long as it is peaceful. If I may finish. If I may finish. Now, you will see that sometimes, we can still carry out and we can still try to condemn somebody. At the end of the day, perhaps the person may not even be comfortable. Let me give you a clear example. You know all the bullet value about the former Minister of Finance, Minister of Finance, and all the heat around it that led to her resignation from the office at that time. But at the end of the day, the court has vindicated her. At the end of the day, why don't you allow the institutions to function? Allow them to take possession. Minister Wobola, can I comment just for a second? Sorry, Minister Pnabong, just a second. Hold on, hold on gentlemen. I would like to set the record straight for Mr Wobola. Cemi Adeshinol went to the court. Cemi Adeshinol, I beg your pardon, went to the court to... She actually went to verify if she was supposed to be doing her NYSC as at the time. If she was eligible, she didn't go to court as per the case of Fodri, which is still not being taken to court. That is a criminal investigation or a criminal case in itself. What she went to court for is a totally different thing, which has been set aside. Mae Rian, he is talking to Mr Wobola, but you don't forget that in her own case, it was even NYSC that said they were not the... of the law that issued the certificate to her. So which law... Even if you go to court, it is the same NYSC you are going to invite to testify. And NYSC said that they did not issue that certificate to her. Well, as we speak today, the status, the position is that a court of competent jurisdiction has made a pronouncement with respect to her case. If you think that there is a criminal... And we are still saying... But I don't know... Gentlemen, let's try as much as possible to exhibit some decorum. Mr Wobola, the case that Mrs Adeolshun took to court was not about Fodri. She went to verify, she was inquiring from the court. And the court has said that she was not eligible because at the time she had graduated, she was not a holder of the Nigerian passport. She was not a citizen of the country and therefore she didn't really need her NYSC to be... to be given any appointment in the country. That is a totally different thing. Exactly. So let's not dwell on that. Let's move on to Ms Anoche. She had to leave the office she was occupying at that time so similar pressure from everywhere. But does that take away from the fact that there was a Fodri of a certificate? You will not allow me to finish. Go ahead. Yes, because they felt that she did not... that there were issues around her NYSC certificate and all of that and that led to her resignation. And then what has come... what is the outcome of any investigation if you say there are criminal elements in the matter about nothing? And then she is going to call to say that particular was I eligible or not for appointment and the cause that she wants. So that is... why don't you allow these institutions to function? In this country the agitation has always been that you should have strong institutions. Strong institutions means allow these institutions to do their work. It's not for you to intimidate carry out all manner of public demonstrations and all of that was not allowing the institutions with the responsibilities to function to carry out assignments allow them to carry out before if it were in court we will say that the matter is so judicious and then we cannot even discuss it at all. See that has done its work. They have already screened the candidates apart from herself and the nominees they have been screened. Allow the outcome. Let us know what the outcome will be. Thank you. Now back to you in this I mean the situation that we are seeing now it's a bit messy because I have spoken with lawyers on the show on the same issue and they have said that if you are partisan you are not allowed to work in INEC because of course you would one way or the other whether you do it or not you would be termed to have influence one thing or the other. Would it be honourable for I mean because if the senate of course we have the APC as the majority in the senate if the senate does allow her to go through with this would it be honourable for her to take that office after all of this outrage and to borrow Mr Bobola's some of his words he said that there's been on due pressure and influence. Would it still be honourable for her to take that office and would it one way or the other smear the idea of a free fair credible election come 2023? First, and so I agree with him on the issue of how to deal with it because it is the right of every Nigeria to have a say on everything that concerns the country and everybody above would they need to go to vote haven't registered and that person is concerned about the integrity of the electoral process of his vote because that would determine who becomes his government, his member out of rest, his senator, his president and what not. So everybody has a say and best of all whenever you go out we are talking about voter efforts before you go out to vote you will have confidence in the system and that is why people are reacting so everybody has a right to say what he wants to say of course they are just saying that you have your citizenship but minority will have their way no problem, it at the end of after all, Mabu was there for five years so it at the end of this day like Mabu was impacted by his D.S.S so are you going to say we should have all kept quiet because the incident was doing this job on Mr President has made up his mind no, even if Mr President is to decide on a mission it is our right to criticize that issue but Mr President is acting on our behalf the student is acting on our behalf we send them there so we have a right to tell them whether openly or secretly to say this is what we want or we don't want this but if they go ahead to do what they want fine nobody is going to tell them they call them that's not the issue so we might not ask our say I'm curious I'm curious let me just quickly put this in Mr Bobola also talks about he said something about Prince Richard II's protesting outside of the Senate if the tables were turned would the PDP be doing different would they do anything differently and could this also be very political because it's a question you can answer it could it be a political stand because go ahead no, let's say that the truth is I'm not a member of PDP but I want to be as fair another objective as I can the truth is that is an opposition party the PDP is an opposition party and what the PDP is has not made its role as an opposition but is strong enough till tomorrow I'll command the APC till 2015 because it was a viral opposition right now the PDP is just kidding so Mr President has also made a protest Mr President is imagining as the president of the country it is a normal thing in the democratic society in any civilized climate criticism is allowed anywhere in the world any country that is inferior to this is dead anywhere in the world second is that is no more respect provided the protest is in viral there is no problem there is respect in view respect in the stand so I said nothing wrong with that and that will not in any way influence the decision of silly because the silly members are also Nigerians they are not people from space from space not even space or wherever, living space I've got a British justice today a statement so they are not people in space but they already have the mindset because this is an issue that is a different format everybody is aware of everybody's views of the facts so you cannot say anybody is influencing anybody nobody is influencing anybody Nigerians are expressing their views that is the truth about it now back to you Mr Mubulla going forward now because we know Mr President's body language and Mr President's track record is in terms of not shifting grounds and I can point to several instances like the Magel situation like the Twitter ban and now again we have an Onochi situation where whether she says she's a member or not and all of the facts that are on the ground including that video that I played what does this say about the APC and Mr President on the choices that he gets to make and how these choices affect us as Nigerians because whether we like it or not her being an INEC commissioner one way or the other is going to either positively or negatively affect us as Nigerians and we are at the receiving end what does this say about the APC and Mr President thank you Mary and I must observe that as a moderator and a non-pair you do not I'd like for you to answer the question Mr Bobola nobody is passing the question I asked a simple question I said the President does have a precedent while you can choose to answer my question Mr Bobola we could just continue the show on examining my personality but please answer my question please answer my question going forward what does this mean for the party and expect me to be comfortable in a program that you have moderated no so will you answer my question or do you want me to rephrase it what do you see as the outcome yes yes yes I know the right of the President to make appointments well it's his constitutional right it's his legal rights as the President of the country he has the power and the right to make those to nominate, to make nominations if fortunately you know you feel strongly about some of those appointments and then we have bodies constitutionally vested with the powers and responsibility to screen and scrutinize those appointments and take this one where the other we should allow those institutions to function that's all I'm saying if you do not allow the process one it's full course then you're not helping the demand or the request or the push for stronger institutions that's my position that's my position, I allow you to run it full course thank you finally this is a woman of course we were asking for more women to be represented but of course lots of people have also played the feminine card that if she were to be a man we probably wouldn't have the same kind of pushback that we're experiencing while we're seeing what's happening to Miss Onoche but being a woman who's going to be on that panel what changes do you think will happen in Ainec because all we've seen are a group of men before the senate oh that question was for you Mr Bubula sorry if you can repeat the question I was saying that I was talking about the fact that we have a woman on that as a commissioner and what impact she would make because we're always asking for more representation for women the sex does not matter if a person is qualified for a position, the person should function in that capacity the sex doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned it's about qualification it's about competence it's about exposure per degree and all of that so if she's qualified, she's qualified but allow the national assembly to take the decision let the process run its full course that's the position going forward what do you envisage will be the outcome of this like Mr Bubula said we should let the senate run its course and then see what happens at the end of the day I want to learn I don't really know after all from what we've experienced in the past even if you see they say Mr Bubula might go ahead to appoint her so I don't have to be saying I don't even think they're going to drop her but the fact remains that we must be able to say our minds ventilate our views when we believe that things are going wrong it is extremely wrong and highly retrogressive for you to say or anybody to say that no matter what it is you have to follow the individuals at the ones that make the strong institutions because the individuals are the ones that criticize the institution and come up with laws that will strengthen the institution and if everybody remains silent then you don't have to take us because they are wrong this is Mr Fred Mr Fred himself is guided by laws and when the wrong fall of that law people will talk this is the dictatorship that is why people are talking and I'm not expecting anything different if they drop her, fine, no problem if they are good, good and fine that will be in time then with the wishes of most Nigeria that will be but if they also say to go ahead then that will also affect negatively the credibility of the election I want the APC to go down with willing, willing, free and fair so it is because of the APC they said APC will complain they demonstrated they demonstrated when this Amina was appointed and they were calling for attack you guys got there you guys got people interestingly Mr Pudabu happens to be by Pudabu in Kotaria happens to be by brother from River State I did not hear his voice when the governor of River State the resec River State where you have where you still have just this retired just a geomergy full consistent we have to go gentlemen I want to thank you, thank you so much we have to go out of time thank you very much for being part of the conversation we'll take a short break now and when we return how successful has President Bahari been in managing diversity in Nigeria so far I'll see you right back