 that he thought, in effect, he could do it by providing it could be used to discriminate it. That he would get as close to it as he could. When this question came up, individuals in the committee, some of them told me about what others were saying, and it was beginning to appear to be interpreted by some of the newspapers bringing together a younger group of tidings. You know, you've read about these stories in the past, and that one of the senators was calling certain senators up and saying, I understand you're not for this because you don't like me, and kind of putting them on the spot that way, and kind of the leader too. So I told the attorney general, I was going to say at the press conference that I was against the full tax, I wanted to get rid of it. I'd done everything, I'd gone further than this bill than anybody had ever gone to Congress before. Farther than they grows, I'd passed the last bill for them. I'd instructed him to go as far as he could within his constitutional limits. And so he said, fine, now he feels that this is going to mess up the bill. I don't know about the details. I've told him to go back again and sit down with him and try to point out the procedures. And we just can't have Joe Rao, if I go to follow him, instead of the attorney general, I'm going to get in pretty bad shape because he's not that good a lawyer. And I would hope that we could find something that men like Kessenback and y'all could agree on that would, in Mansfield, get us over the hump because that is not the real core of the bill. They're not with four states involved. He thinks that he can knock it out pretty quick with them. And I'd hate to lose the whole bill on counter. Or I'd hate to have the public interpret that we were much kids fighting among ourselves. I'm willing to move as far as human being can. I have the same views that you do. And I think I'm doing more for those negative groups than anybody's ever done for them. And I think they just got off kind of on a jag here. And you ought to try to pull them in to some unified action or else we'll be like the Dominican Republic. We'll have a party that's split half and half and relate to no leader. They pay no attention to their president. They don't follow the attorney general. They go, well, part of Mansfield goes this way and some of them go that way and the attorney general goes another way. And we can't over the long run win that way. Now I don't feel strongly about it. I don't feel that I'm against it. I want to get rid of it. I want to do what any good lawyer. Now this man's been Bobby's lawyer. He's been Teddy's lawyer. He's been my lawyer that asked me to keep him and I have kept him. And I'm following what he says. I'm giving him no directions. I'm giving him no instructions. I've just told him to do the best job he could in the interest of the Negroes. And he, I believe, is genuinely sincere and competent. He tells me. He's there telling all kinds of stories on him up there that he thinks that the other bill might be all right and so forth. But if you could, if the other boys could, or any young group like you and Fred Harris, a group I could come up there if you all could say now, please let's get with the catching back and let's see if there's not something we can do where we don't have to cut ourselves to pieces. And if he couldn't sell you and you're convinced that he is totally wrong, then you'd have to do it. I would hope you could sell him. Do you follow me? It looks mighty bad to me. And one of the senators was told this morning, oh, you better watch out. There's going to be a Kennedy president here. And things like that. And that's not good. And I've had about four of them call me about it. And they upset. You know, I ask who's up here spreading that kind of... Well... Everybody has ever approached me. That's what puts me, or anybody who thinks it's like I do. I mean, I'm... my present position as far as this particular issue is concerned is one small part of it is that if we, I think I'm in a position politically at home and it's philosophically the way I feel and you feel, we share our tendency toward the poll tax. But politically at home, I think I'm in a position where I have to make an effort on this one thing. Now if we're defeated, then... or if it gets in there and it looks like this is going to ruin the bill, and I think right now we can't say that with good judgment, then I'm partaking it out of there. But I think right now it would be real bad to me and my degree position at home if I appeared to be less than what he has because I feel very strong about it. Now if it gets to the place where my judgment is going to sink the ship and then this president... I learned from the man I'm talking to right now that you've got to be able to conform to what takes you to get the job done. Well, what I would hope all of you would do without any instructions from the mayor, without even consulting me, would be try to get the attorney general and the solicitor general, the man who drafted his laws and the authors of them, who instigated them and who started them, who are going to have to enforce them and carry them through to try to get in the room and find some basis of agreement. That will do justice to the Negro and I think the way I hear it there's just a question now, which one does it the best? And I think if you could get Teddy and whoever else is on the committee with you, tie things and get Kesson back and sit down with your leader and give you all a view and give it strong and then let him point out his view and then try to find some area that you can come up with and maybe turn here, turn there with your amendment that he could accept and he believes would be good in sound. He has no instructions or he has no forces that would keep them from agreeing anything. That's right. He's as open as you are and I don't believe that we ought to have the brilliant young senators that we got that we want to make our future out of and the brilliant young attorney generals and we can't get together. This is certainly because it doesn't, it's not a good omen. If they can't and you got it down to me and it's a bill that he doesn't want and don't like, I'm not running for office, I don't have lots of difficulty and I just think the time to do it is before we get so far out that we came to the reason and for what I'm concerned I'm willing to be bound by anything you can agree on and I have no orders or no instructions or not even any recommendations except that as a party it's good judgment not to become divided and not to become sectionalized not to become divided into groups. You've done more than any other to see that these differences have been pulled together. I can't get Jim Eastland but no reason why I can't get you and McCarthy together because basically Teddy and Mondale and those people believe the same things and Katzenbach is the champion of y'all. He's not the Johnson man that came up from Texas to be attorney general ever president and title to his lawyer. If he not he ought to be and I took their lawyer because I foresaw this very problem. I foresaw that I would be charged with not being quite strong enough on civil rights and I initiated after we got rid of the other bill I initiated the voting rights myself nobody else did no Negro leaders I did that at the ranch in November and I came up with the bill and we drafted the bill now it's been changed it ought to be changed but what changes we make we ought to find a way where this man can stay behind us and enforce him and he's got to administer it and he's got to execute it and Mr. Rayburn used to say that you can get the best law in the world and a poor man to administer it and you're right or you can get the worst law in the world and a good man to administer it and you do pretty well so you're going to have to administer it he and John Doar and most of them are going to have to decide every day and make their arguments and you and Teddy and maybe we all are going to be off sleep somewhere speaking to some barbecue this guy's going to have to be done no reason why the Kennedys can't get along with their cats back they brought him from Yale and they pulled him together and he loves them and he's loyal to them and he's devoted to them and I'm devoted to him and he has no orders or instructions from me to do what's right well the most unfortunate thing about this is that apparently there are people and what you say certainly confirms it that are trying to put some of us who feel very strongly about this whole issue in a very intentable position of loyalties over a situation that as far as I'm concerned don't exist and I appreciate your frank discussion of that what I would do is this I don't have no time to fight with any Democrat and particularly you're the last one I want to I want to you represent what I want in my party and the future of my party and you're going to be doing just what I've been doing all through the years as I'm late aside and I'm pretty well tripled up anyway now with all these problems I've got but I do know that at their times when you don't like what your younger sister thinks what your older brother says but in the interest of your mother you all ought to get in the room and try to find some area I just ought to do it because all I did for the makers and bear in mind that this man catching back was Bobby's top man that did all the testifying on the bill of 65 last year and he's not the last thing Bobby asked me to do was to keep him Mr. Attorney General and I've done that that was a very very wonderful thing and a very smart thing so you just say to your boys now boys let's don't get out here in front of the Republicans let Javits because he called us and raised us let's get out here and find something that Nick Kessback could come to and if he can't say to you, you sell him and just say, God damn it, Nick you've got to administer this and you've got to execute this it doesn't do us any good to write it if you can't make it stand up and let's get together and then get together I appreciate very much your taking time to talk to Mr. Attorney General I always will and I'll always be helpful and I know you won't do likewise too and the best way that you can help yourself down the road all the way through is you get some of your young fellows and sit down with Kessback and your committee clerk and your council and Mansfield and you'll find some area that all of you can get on without fighting up there on the floor of the Senate it's certainly getting a lot deeper just got to do that well thank you very much sir